Time Nick Message
01:12 wasabi any chris about?
01:12 wasabi i need some advice on sending some of my patches to kc.org
01:14 wasabi … ping me when about?
01:14 robin wasabi: he's up north training some librarians on Koha for the rest of the week
01:28 wasabi oh ta, missed my irc alerty-thing
01:28 wasabi ok, so heres the Q anyway….
01:30 wasabi if im going to apply some dev patches to a clean koha repo, whats the best git *tag* on my clean koha repo, to start my applying my patches too
01:31 wasabi hmm, that doesnt make much sense , lol
01:31 robin yeah, I wouldn't apply to a tag.
01:31 robin I'd just use the master branch
01:32 wasabi aaah
01:32 wasabi yeah that was my other choice
01:33 robin tags are more for flagging a point in time
01:34 wasabi i sent a patch to kc.org, that was applied to git tag 'v3.02.00-rc', rather than master
01:34 wasabi wasa
01:34 wasabi wasa
01:35 wasabi oops, wrong window :/
01:35 robin it'll probably still work. But you could check by applying it to master
01:36 robin I think if you're aiming it for the 3.2 then do it agains the 3.2.x branch
01:36 wasabi yep, its an easy test and fix for me
01:37 wasabi aah, that was my reasoning, i forgot that :)
01:37 wasabi ok, ill double-check your advice, and thanx :)
01:37 robin np
02:20 Brooke @quote get 102
02:20 munin Brooke: Quote #102: "<druthb> harrrumph!" (added by gmcharlt at 07:42 PM, November 11, 2010)
02:38 darling i ate too much cabbage, i wonder if chocolate would fix that
02:39 darling can't hurt..
03:28 Brooke cabbage...
03:28 Brooke hmmm
03:31 darling mmm
03:51 brendan_l evening
06:16 cait hi #koha
07:25 kmkale hi all
07:27 cait hi kmkale
07:28 kmkale hi cait
07:29 cait sorry, didn't have time to look at your patch yesterday, will look at it today
07:30 kmkale np cait
08:22 kf hi #koha
08:22 chris hi again kf
08:24 hdl hi all
08:29 kf hi chris
09:03 chris list meetbot
09:03 chris @list meetbot
09:03 munin chris: addchair, deletemeeting, listmeetings, pingall, recent, and savemeetings
09:08 chris @listmeetings
09:08 munin chris: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
09:09 chris @metbot listmeetings
09:09 munin chris: Error: "metbot" is not a valid command.
09:10 kf @meetbot listmeetings
09:10 munin kf: Error: You don't have the admin capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
09:11 kf munin: I gave you cookies!
09:11 munin kf: Error: "I" is not a valid command.
09:11 chris whats this button?
09:11 ibot dont push it, it's the history eraser button you fool!
09:12 kf munin?
09:19 wasabi evening, chris about?
09:19 chris sorta
09:19 chris stink internets in bucklame
09:23 kf hi wasabi :)
09:24 wasabi heyaz...
09:24 wasabi a little question about patches?
09:24 chris yup
09:25 wasabi i wanna commit my star-ratings thingy from ASHS....
09:25 chris coool
09:25 chris basing it on master is the trick
09:25 wasabi whats the best commit to start testing againist?
09:25 wasabi aaah, ok
09:26 wasabi ok, thats great
09:26 chris all patches should be based on master, and backported to 3.2.x if applicable
09:26 wasabi aaaaah
09:26 chris for this one, new feature so wont go onto 3.2.x
09:27 wasabi sure sure....
09:27 chris but yeah to make it easy, off master ;)
09:27 wasabi ok, i just wanted to get all that cleared, before i started testing
09:28 wasabi i did a feature commit yesterday, but based it off a 3.2 tag
09:29 wasabi i'll re-test on master , and update the bug
09:30 chris sounds good
09:30 wasabi interesting interview with assange's lawyer on nat.radio now…
09:34 kf wasabi: star rating sounds good :)
09:38 wasabi thanx, we'll see… :)
09:40 wasabi hopefully more patches from me over xmas-time
09:46 kf wasabi: if you need someone to test something - ask :)
09:52 Brooke boozhoo
09:55 * Brooke waves at magnus
09:56 * magnus waves back at Brooke and the rest of #koha
09:57 Brooke bongiorno tajoli
09:58 tajoli ciao
09:59 chris #startmeeting General IRC meeting 8 December
09:59 munin Meeting started Wed Dec 8 10:00:14 2010 UTC. The chair is chris. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
09:59 munin Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
09:59 chris #topic Introductions
09:59 tajoli Zeno Tajoli, CILEA - Italy
09:59 * chris is Chris Cormack 3.4 RM
10:00 * magnus Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
10:00 * jwagner Jane Wagner LibLime/PTFS
10:01 Colin Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe
10:01 dpk Doug Kingston - English Folk Dance & Song Society (efdss.org)
10:02 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:03 * kf Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
10:03 chris chris_n and hdl about?
10:03 * slef = MJ Ray, worker-owner, software.coop
10:03 chris be a short meeting otherwise, which i dont mind :)
10:05 chris shall we jump to the 3.4 update and if they arrive we can do 3.0. and 3.2 after?
10:05 kf +1
10:05 magnus +1
10:05 dpk +1
10:05 Brooke sounds like a plan +1
10:05 chris ok
10:06 chris #topic Update on roadmap for 3.4
10:06 chris we are still on track, pushing lots of patches
10:07 chris but there are some big branches awaiting qa
10:07 chris i made some changes to bugzilla last week
10:07 chris added a new field, patch status
10:08 chris for any single patches on a bug, that need qa/signoff i have been setting that to needs signoff
10:08 kf chris: I wondered about the correct status after a patch has been signed-off
10:09 chris ill set it patch pushed when i push it
10:09 * hdl Henri-Damien LAURENT BibLibre
10:09 hdl (sorry to be late)
10:09 chris it can go back to blank if we want, or we can add another status
10:09 chris for multipatches for a bug, i have been pushing new/awaiting_qa branches
10:10 slef Related to this: I've not linked the November patches list emails to bugs yet. Shall I? Does anyone find those batches of comments annoying?
10:10 chris to make it easier
10:10 chris they dont annoy me
10:11 hdl me neither
10:11 kf me neither
10:11 slef ok, I'll continue, do this batch, then automate
10:11 chris #agreed slef to continue his work linking patches to bugs
10:12 kf meetbot++ :)
10:12 chris does anyone else have any general 3.4 questions before we move on to template toolkit update?
10:13 thd yes
10:14 thd how much in advance of the release schedule would you expect a feature freeze?
10:14 hdl Do you have a plan for persistence and performance work ?
10:14 chris thd: 1 month and 2 week string freeze
10:15 chris hdl: no
10:15 kf which date would that be?
10:15 chris 22 march
10:15 kf sometime in march?
10:15 kf ah
10:16 chris hdl: we do need to track down the memory leaks before we can continue with persistance tho, so hopefully someone will work on that
10:16 hdl chris same question for circulation and all the RFCs...
10:16 hdl (global RFCs)
10:16 chris #info feature freeze aimed for march 22, string freeze for 2 weeks after
10:17 chris hdl: i have no concrete plans if someone wants to make some, that would be good
10:17 thd hdl: global RFCs?
10:17 hdl wow...8-)
10:17 chris im rm, not god
10:17 hdl Ajax.. Circulation imrpovements.
10:17 thd :)
10:17 hdl I dont expect you to do all the stuff.
10:17 thd hdl: By global do you mean affecting many modules?
10:18 hdl But I raise those issues in order to raise attention on that.
10:18 hdl So that we can all make efforts and join forces.
10:18 kf @quote add chris: im rm, not god
10:18 munin kf: The operation succeeded. Quote #110 added.
10:19 hdl Community could try and set periodical meetings on those subjects and come who wants.
10:19 chris #action organise meetings on rfcs
10:19 chris #help someone needs to organise them, and by someone i mean anyone except me :)
10:20 thd :)
10:20 hdl biblibre can take some... but not all
10:20 hdl About circulation improvements.
10:20 hdl It could be tested
10:20 hdl it is on a branch
10:21 chris lets make some meetings for each of the performance rfc
10:22 chris i know there are people interested in them and then they can discuss specifics
10:22 hdl Can you detail then ?
10:23 chris detail what?
10:24 hdl detail what different meeting syou want
10:24 hdl you propose.
10:24 chris i dont want any
10:24 kf I think the branches from biblibre need a qa session
10:24 chris i thought you did
10:25 hdl #action organise a qa session for biblibre branches
10:25 kf the rfc's that still need work is perhaps a different thing
10:25 thd I think that chris was stating that those interested in holding topic meetings are encouraged to organise them
10:25 hdl We take it.
10:25 hdl sorry I misunderstood.
10:26 hdl I thought idea was to split performance issues into idetified parts.
10:26 hdl identified...
10:27 hdl for instance javascript/Plack or data persistence....
10:27 chris they mostly have, circ improvements, ajax, persistence etc
10:27 chris and i encourage people interested in them, to talk to each other
10:27 hdl ok.. was also to check that we would not miss any, just to have the beginind of a list of identified issues.
10:28 magnus sounds like a wiki page ;-)
10:28 chris i dont think missing them is too much of a worry, its not a finite topic
10:28 hdl chris: should we make a call for volunteer on each subject ?
10:28 chris and we wont get all of them done for 3.4, people adding more as they think of them
10:29 hdl chris: but having no lists doesnot help organisign work.
10:29 chris i didnt say no lists
10:29 chris i said we dont need an exhaustive list
10:29 hdl chris: fine for me.
10:30 chris #idea have volunteers to coordinate discussion on each of the performance rfc
10:30 * Brooke will go over the meeting minutes and put summat up on the wiki for Mondayish.
10:30 slef is there a label/category for performance rfcs?
10:31 hdl http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/RFCs_for_Koha_3.4
10:31 thd slef: One can easily be added.
10:31 chris #action Brooke will go over the meeting minutes and put summat up on the wiki for Mondayish
10:33 chris ok, anything else? or shall we move on?
10:33 chris #action thd to add a category for performance related rfc
10:34 chris ok, moving on
10:34 chris #topic template toolkit update
10:34 thd slef: I took categories from bugzilla where no such category had been created in the component assignment nature of bug assignments.
10:34 magnus that page hdl gave the url to looks like it should be split into several pages with more details
10:34 chris chris hall, has been doing a lot of work and has a script that can convert html::template::pro files to template::toolkit ones
10:35 chris we ran into some issues with variable names
10:35 hdl magnus: agreed.
10:35 chris in h::t::p you can have somethin like foo-bar as a variable name
10:35 chris in tt it needs to be a valid perl variable name
10:35 chris so we have been fixing those in the original templates too
10:36 chris we are now in the testing phase
10:36 chris #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Template_toolkit_test
10:36 hdl we will try and test that too.
10:36 chris kf has been doing some testing
10:36 hdl thanks.
10:36 kf sorry, phone call
10:37 chris we ran into some issues with umlauts, which we havent figured out the solution to yet, but i am sure its something we just missed setting
10:37 hdl Is there a way you propose to organise parts of templates ?
10:37 chris thats outside the scope of the changes for 3.4
10:37 slef so it'll be a similar organisation?
10:38 chris this is purely a replacement of the templating engine
10:38 chris yes, where similair = exactly the same
10:38 chris once that is working flawlessly
10:38 chris then we can start moving things around
10:39 chris and making use of the extra features we get with tt
10:39 chris that may happen before 3.4 is released, but i doubt it, there is a lot of other things to do
10:40 chris but once its changed, it should be possible for people to start reorganising
10:40 hdl With ongoing works on Acquisitions, it could be good if ppl could get an idea of a best practise.
10:40 hdl even fuzzy or blur.
10:40 chris thats certainly something that you would want owen involved in
10:41 chris along with jquery upgrades etc
10:41 hdl #idea organise something with owen about tempalte reorganisations
10:43 chris so thats where we are now, with more testing, we should be ready to switch to tt early in the new year, outstanding patches to templates i will apply to the old templates and use the script to upgrade them to tt
10:44 hdl chris : it could be good if all the big branches could get in before
10:44 chris but after fair warning ill expect new ones to be tt not h::t::p
10:45 chris one is readyish, it has had qa and some feedback provided, if you wanted to respond to the questions in that feedback then that branch could be merged
10:46 chris perhaps colin could organise a qa meeting
10:46 hdl the one owen and Frederic sent comments on ?
10:46 chris galen signed off on, and sent comments
10:46 hdl Or is it about reports ?
10:47 chris that other one is only partially qa
10:47 chris d
10:47 chris maybe colin could organise some meetings and try and rope in some volunteers to help qa
10:48 hdl I didn't cath Galen was waiting an answer from me.
10:48 Colin yes probably need to generate a strategy to attack some of these
10:48 hdl s/cath/catch/
10:48 chris hdl: yep, im pretty sure there were a few questions and a couple of changes he wanted you to check
10:49 hdl #action hdl comment on gmcharlt email and branch
10:50 chris #topic update on biblibre branches
10:50 chris we have kinda started this already :)
10:51 hdl indeed.
10:51 chris was there anything else you wanted to add hdl?
10:51 hdl Just say that there are many bug fixes done also on those.
10:51 hdl And that in my opinion, the more we wait for integration, the more we will have duplicat efforts.
10:52 hdl And we had very little feedback on the qa progress.
10:53 hdl So idea of kf before to organise meetings could be good.
10:53 hdl Instead of having 12 branches to cope with, I would have only 3 and that would be a great step.
10:54 chris i only have i think 32 at last count
10:54 hdl Could we agree on having a meeting around that ? assuming people are ready to spend time testing.
10:55 hdl if so, i can rais an action
10:56 chris i suggest you propose a time and see how that goes
10:56 chris there are other branches
10:56 chris like the 2 analytics ones and others
10:56 chris that need qa too
10:57 hdl #action propose a meeting around qa branches.
10:57 tajoli 2 analytics ?
10:57 hdl (but that was already said.
10:57 hdl )
10:58 tajoli I think that is only one
10:58 tajoli (new/awaiting_qa/analytical_records)
10:58 chris thats one
10:58 chris there is work kf has been doing too
10:58 thd tajoli: I have seen two patches for analytic records
10:58 hdl I will continue to try and take into account any feed back
11:00 chris #topic update on the 3 words
11:00 tajoli I simply add unimarc (461/463 ) support
11:00 chris (its midnight here, i have to do training tomorrow so moving along)
11:01 Brooke k, still not dawn here, so bear with me.
11:01 chris tajoli: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4506
11:01 munin 04Bug 4506: enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Add support of record linking by record control number in $w
11:02 Brooke We worked on a three words tag cloud
11:02 Brooke from stuff discussed at KohaCon then opened up over the list
11:03 Brooke we got pretty good feedback
11:03 Brooke I then hybridised the new words with an old mission statement
11:03 Brooke and then sent that puppy out for feedback
11:04 Brooke so tag cloud is here
11:04 Brooke http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/File:Zecloud2.png
11:04 hdl #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/File:Zecloud2.png
11:04 Brooke Mission is
11:04 Brooke The mission of the Koha project is to produce and maintain an
11:04 Brooke evolutionary and revolutionary free open source Integrated Library System.
11:04 Brooke Through collaboration, our communityhopes to offer a fresh, dynamic,
11:04 Brooke reliable catalogue that sets the benchmark in usability, quality and innovation.
11:04 Brooke We seek to emancipate users from the morass of proprietary data and orphaned
11:04 Brooke products and empower Koha users to share their strengths in a stable, welcoming,
11:04 Brooke and nurturing environment.
11:04 Brooke We value the cooperation of enthusiastic librarians, generous software
11:04 Brooke developers, transparent support providers and all people of integrity who share
11:04 Brooke our commitment to freedom and participate in the spirit of solidarity.
11:05 Brooke If you have better words, or this is highly offencive in your language, I'm all ears for change.
11:07 thd Some benign word is offensive in some possible language or if pronounced the wrong way :)
11:08 chris i like it
11:08 hdl noble moto
11:08 thd Is their a definition of opaque support providers?
11:09 thd s/their/there/
11:09 slef +1 (and sorry, I'm gone now... for some reason I'd booked this meeting as an hour)
11:09 Brooke I'd assume there could be as a footnote or supporting document someplace.
11:09 magnus +1
11:10 Brooke Mission -> Vision -> Planning -> Less argument is the theory
11:11 thd Brooke: I think that the intended meaning of transparent is clear to me but I am not certain it would be clear to everyone.
11:12 chris i propose that discussion on the wording be continued at a later date
11:12 magnus +1
11:12 Brooke I'm limited in construction in that Mission statements are meant to be wee things. Again, I'm willing to add supporting documentation linking what it means as things evolve
11:12 magnus i think transparent sounds good, lets "operationalize" it later, if we feel like it
11:13 chris id like to thank brooke for working on this
11:13 chris and move on to
11:13 Brooke mostly bob
11:13 Brooke and you guyses
11:13 chris #topic action items from the previous meeting
11:14 chris im not sure we had any?
11:14 chris anyone remember differently? certainly we didnt note any in the minutes
11:14 thd I did not mean to suggest that transparent was not fine or not the best choice.
11:15 thd I have an issue to reintroduce.
11:15 thd Or rather further postpone to the mailing list.
11:16 chris fire away
11:16 thd At the last meeting I proposed to reintroduce the delayed ballot process on upgrading the software license.
11:17 thd ... with apologies for falling ill.
11:17 chris #action thd to reintroduce the ballot process on the software license to the mailing lists
11:17 chris no apologies needed
11:17 chris its not like it was something you can stop :)
11:17 thd gmcharlt wisely suggested deferring to the mailing list.
11:17 thd I could have seen the doctor sooner and had less of an infection to combat.
11:18 thd However, I avoid doctors when I can.
11:19 thd I think that last month was not appropriate for reintroduction with problems over RFCs and development conflicts taking much of my time to help resolve.
11:19 thd I will take the issue up for restarting the ballot process on the mailing list this month.
11:19 chris ive action pointed it now, so you have too :)
11:20 chris to even
11:20 chris #topic times for next meeting
11:21 hdl Wednesday 5 ?
11:21 * magnus works for me
11:21 chris that would be ok for me, time?
11:21 hdl 20 PM ?
11:21 tajoli For me better after 6
11:21 * kf back
11:22 dpk 20:00 GMT?
11:22 magnus +1
11:22 hdl or 22 GMT
11:22 dpk who are we being nice to this time?
11:22 kf it was nice for europe this time
11:22 kf perhaps us?
11:22 Brooke apparently not europeans
11:23 kf or india :)
11:23 hdl americans and new zelanders iirc.
11:23 jwagner Whichever time, can we get reminder emails to the listserv? There are very few people here today.
11:23 * magnus gotta run
11:23 hdl Or same time ?
11:24 dpk chris: I have a quick question on how we progress bug 5332
11:24 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5332 enhancement, P3, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Add batch reversion capability to bin/commit_biblios_file.pl
11:24 Brooke 22 is good, me thinks
11:24 * jwagner pleads sleepily for a different time :-)
11:24 chris #action jwagner to send reminder emails
11:24 chris dpk: can it wait until the meeting finishes?
11:24 jwagner Me? I thought that was the meeting organizer?
11:25 chris its anyone
11:25 chris and you volunteered
11:25 dpk yes
11:25 * jwagner looks up definition of "volunteered"
11:25 chris #agreed next meeting is 22:00 UTC Wednesday 5 January
11:26 chris done
11:26 hdl jwagner: i thought that was an american habit.
11:26 thd jwagner: There is a special meaning in the Koha community.
11:26 hdl OK thanks folks
11:26 hdl have to run now
11:26 chris #endmeeting
11:26 munin Meeting ended Wed Dec 8 11:27:40 2010 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
11:26 munin Minutes: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2010/koha.2010-12-08-10.00.html
11:26 munin Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2010/koha.2010-12-08-10.00.txt
11:26 munin Log: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2010/koha.2010-12-08-10.00.log.html
11:26 Brooke cheers hdl
11:26 tajoli hi magnus
11:27 chris meetbot rules, those minutes are cool
11:27 chris right dpk, sup?
11:28 dpk yeah, so I submitted a patch to add batch reversion to get myself unstuck from a corrupt batch.
11:28 dpk It looks like it still needs qa testing.
11:28 chris ah yep
11:29 chris you will want to hassle colin about that :)
11:29 chris hes close to you too (in the UK as well)
11:29 dpk Its not a core function but it will help people who get bad imports. There appears no other way is available. OK - I'll contact Colin.
11:29 chris yep, i like the idea
11:30 dpk Goodnight.
11:30 tajoli Magnus, do you check the branch about analytic records ?
11:30 * chris hits the hay
11:31 chris have a good day
11:31 dpk chris; currently shows bug assigned to Galen. Also, what is Colin's email? He has not commented on that bug.
11:31 kf tajoli: I did the work on 5406 - I think it's quite different. I had a time problem testing the other work :(
11:32 kf tajoli: my aim it so put up an rfc, example files and comments to the other branch until the end of the year
11:32 kf is to put...
11:32 kf hope that's soon enough
11:40 tajoli Hi Katrin (and sorry for dela)
11:41 tajoli I see your work ofr bug 5406
11:41 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5406 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Allow Koha to authenticate using LDAPS as well as LDAP
11:41 tajoli No, is the bug 4506
11:41 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4506 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, katrin.fischer, NEW, Add support of record linking by record control number in $w
11:42 thd Which is an RFC which needs a performance category applied?
11:42 tajoli I think is correct.
11:42 tajoli and is a differct thin from the git branch
11:42 tajoli new/awaiting_qa/analytical_records
11:43 tajoli And they are compatible at 100%, I think
11:51 kf tajoli: I hope so
11:52 kf I had no time to test the analytical_records branch - is the functionality controlled by a sys pref?
11:52 kf my linking doesn't use the barcode or biblionumber but the controlnumber (which we get from our union catalog and don't want to overwrite)
11:53 kf I really have to spend some time on those features and documentation
11:58 thd slef: are you there?
12:01 slef thd: yes, but working, may be slow to answer
12:02 thd slef: added a performance RFC category.
12:02 thd slef: do you know what it should be applied to other than Table sorters RFC?
12:03 slef thd: not really... my lack of clue about how to identify performance RFCs is why I wondered if there was a category.
12:03 thd slef: I think that the bugzilla category architecture, internals, and plumbing generally addresses performance issues.
12:04 thd slef: I had presumed that not knowing which they are had motivated your request.
12:04 thd slef: I thought that they would be more obvious.
12:04 thd slef: I think that RFCs have yet to be written for most performance issues raised.
12:09 tajoli I leave
12:14 thd slef: I note that the there is a page for Koha Tuning but it seems not to have been intended as an RFC, http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Tuning .
12:54 * chris_n sends along regrets for missing the meeting this morning
12:54 kf hi chris_n
13:28 owen Hey all, sorry I missed the meeting this morning.
13:29 owen Anyone know what this is about? "organise something with owen about template reorganisations"
13:29 * owen hadn't heard of ideas for template reorganizations
13:36 * owen supposes everyone went back to bed after the meeting
13:38 kmkale hi owen
13:46 hdl owen: hi
13:46 ibot hey, hdl
13:46 hdl well it is not work in progress but it would be work to plan.
13:47 hdl owen: it would be : How to organise stuff so that templates would be both flexible AND sustainable.
13:47 owen What do you have in mind?
13:48 hdl owen: namely : have templates for create update Display pieces of information individually and lists.
13:49 hdl And have a kind of appropriate "namespace" (say rather file system organisation) for those parts
13:49 owen Instead of having them all in one template?
13:49 hdl owen yes.
13:50 hdl See ItemInputRefactoring Branch to see what it could mean...
14:19 owen hdl: Do you see the template changes as a system-wide overhaul or a gradual process?
14:20 hdl owen: about previous question :version in the mysql table is before your kohaversion.pl
14:21 hdl I would say gradual process... If it is well designed and thought... Then we should be able to design by best practise.
14:21 hdl And develop best practises.
14:21 hdl kmkale: are you in mumbai ? it is quite late for you.
14:21 jcamins Good morning, #koha
14:22 kmkale not really hdl its 7.53pm
14:22 kmkale hi jcamins
14:22 owen I would definitely prefer a gradual process. Between Bug 3652, Bug 4048, and moving to jQuery UI we've got too many overhauls on our plate
14:22 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3652 critical, P5, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED, XSS vulnerabilities
14:22 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4048 normal, P5, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED, CSS and JS libs must be outside of translated paths
14:31 hdl owen:I agree... and such overhauls are a nightmare for integration....
14:31 * owen agrees
14:31 hdl Moreover there should be two more :
14:32 hdl js libs should be loaded at the end of the page.
14:32 owen +1
14:32 hdl And yui should be abandonned...
14:33 hdl But still, Having a plan.... could prevent us from searching on our own... and have conflicting ideas afterwards.
14:34 owen hdl: I often wonder if we should be doing some js and css aggregation like Drupal does? Minifying and packaging the js and css?
14:35 owen "Drupal can automatically optimize external resources like CSS and JavaScript, which can reduce both the size and number of requests made to your website. CSS files can be aggregated and compressed into a single file, while JavaScript files are aggregated (but not compressed)."
14:35 hdl it would greatly help...
14:44 jwagner Hmmm. Does anyone know of any technical reasons (speed, database, etc.) why an authorized value category shouldn't have maybe 800 entries? Need a controlled vocabulary for a particular field, and it doesn't really fit into authority control.
14:44 owen hdl: Is there a bug for the transition from YUI to jQueryUI?
14:44 hdl owen : I donot think so. Not yet.
14:45 kf hi kmkale - will send later
14:45 kmkale kf++
14:46 kf lots of meetings today, catching up with mail right now
14:47 kmkale on 3.03.00.004 while adding items to a batch in label creator, if we do a search and then select all then add checked then done only one item gets added to the batch :(
14:47 kmkale anyone noticed this?
14:49 kf kmkale: I thought this was a fixed bug or something
14:49 kf is your system up to date?
14:49 kf chris_n will now
14:49 kmkale yup. its 3.03.00.004
14:52 kmkale also if its a multi page search only the first item on each page is added when we do select all, then add checked on each page then finally done
14:55 kmkale bug 5391
14:55 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5391 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, cnighswonger, ASSIGNED, can't add multiples to batch
14:56 kf kmkale: I think the second is by design
14:56 kf it's the same for search result pages in general
14:56 kf ah, no sorry
14:57 kf rereading what you say it really sounds strange
14:57 kmkale kf: how so? is I go to the next page of a search and do a select all then add checked it should add all items on that pahe to the batch
14:58 kf no you are right
15:01 kmkale i should read before I type
15:01 kf me too :)
15:04 kmkale applying the proposed patch seems to solve it.
15:11 kf you could sign-off on it :)
15:13 owen http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sign_off_on_patches
15:16 kmkale :)
15:17 kmkale remember what I said about sign off quality? ;)
15:24 hdl kmkale: ....?
15:24 hdl what have you said ?
15:25 kmkale one more problem. If there is only one item in a batch and if I select it and click Remove Items it shows a pop up of "Please select at least label to delete."
15:26 kmkale hdl: i said I foresee a rider coming soon to patch sign off saying sign offs should be from a reputed source ;)
15:27 hdl hehe...
15:28 hdl it would not come from me... Since merging workflow is not appropriate for sign-off.
15:29 jwagner any ideas on my authval question?
15:31 jcamins jwagner: we have... many... CCODEs, and it hasn't been a problem.
15:31 jcamins Not 800, but enough that I'd expect that we would've encountered problems when we were running on an underpowered VM.
15:31 jwagner OK, I'm looking at creating a category with maybe 500-600 entries. Just wanted to be sure that wasn't A Bad Idea.
15:31 hdl jwagner: I don't think it would be a problem
15:32 jwagner Thanks.
15:33 kmkale hi druthb
15:33 druthb hi, kmkale! :)
15:34 jwagner Hey, who let you in???
15:34 * druthb did.
15:35 jwagner Harrumph :-)
15:35 druthb @quote get 102
15:35 munin druthb: Quote #102: "<druthb> harrrumph!" (added by gmcharlt at 07:42 PM, November 11, 2010)
15:35 jwagner We miss you :-(
15:35 druthb Aw, thanks!
15:37 druthb @karma cait
15:37 munin druthb: Karma for "cait" has been increased 52 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 52.
15:39 druthb @karma druthb
15:39 munin druthb: Karma for "druthb" has been increased 45 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 45.
15:39 druthb @karma jwagner
15:39 munin druthb: Karma for "jwagner" has been increased 50 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 50.
15:39 druthb Hmf.
15:40 kf bye kohw
15:40 kf koha
15:42 * druthb does not miss commuting in 23-degree weather, nope nope.
15:48 slef Where's the best place in a MARC record to put notes about Koha's automatic mangling of that MARC record?
15:50 jcamins slef: what automatic mangling?
15:52 slef jcamins: the one I'm writing ;-)
15:53 slef jcamins: I'm making Koha regenerate biblioitems.marcxml from biblioitems.marc when marcxml is incomplete.
15:53 jcamins Oh. Well, who needs to see the note?
15:53 slef a cataloguer who is wondering what happened to their record
15:53 jcamins Probably not 583 then...
15:54 jcamins The ANS uses 993 for that sort of note.
15:54 slef I don't think "Koha barfed" needs to appear in OPAC.
15:54 hdl mmm marc is much more limited than marcxml
15:55 hdl for big records, it would not be helpfull
15:55 slef hdl: yes. I'm expecting this recovery routine only to activate on relatively new records.
15:55 slef Usually things which have been imported or entered with subtly incorrect settings.
15:55 jcamins hdl: anything that can be represented in MARCXML can be represented in MARC. The length limit is a serious problem, but if your record is corrupted, it seems to me that the best thing to do would be to rebuild the MARCXML from MARC and items, rather than just fail.
15:56 jcamins If I understand correctly what slef is doing.
15:57 wizzyrea slef++ I approve of that project
15:57 slef I suppose I could try making Koha refuse to save any MARC which it couldn't convert to correct marcxml... what would be the consequences of that?
15:57 wizzyrea annoyed catalogers
15:57 wizzyrea but
15:57 wizzyrea happy catalogers
15:57 slef cataloguers are masochists?
15:57 wizzyrea because then they'd know they have to get/create a better/different record
15:58 slef I guess when one can corrupt a marc record simply by messing up its leader, there's probably always going to be someone somewhere with broken data in their Koha.
15:58 wizzyrea just so I'm clear: the problem you are trying to solve is...
15:59 wizzyrea catalog searches that error because of one bad record?
15:59 wizzyrea (among other things)
15:59 slef Any action which errors because it hits a broken marcxml. Usually someone's trying to receive an item when I see the fault report.
16:00 wizzyrea right. Our manifestation of that is broken catalog searches
16:00 wizzyrea for specific words
16:00 slef That happens too, yes.
16:01 owen wizzyrea: Because one of the records in the result set is corrupt?
16:01 wizzyrea ok thank you
16:01 wizzyrea yep
16:01 owen Yeah we've seen that too
16:01 wizzyrea slef++ for accidentally helping me to understand how that happens
16:02 wizzyrea so right, how best to fix
16:02 slef wizzyrea: if you switch KOHA_BACKTRACES on in koha-httpd.conf and DebugLevel to 2 in sysprefs, it becomes more obvious.
16:02 Barrc Hello all - just moved one of our installs up to 3.006 and noticed that even though the Koha user crontab is exactly as it was on 3.005 any Bib/Authority additions takes longer to populate. On the older version it was almost immediate. Any ideas?
16:02 wizzyrea if only I had such power to wield over my apache logs.
16:02 wizzyrea maybe soon.
16:03 slef wizzyrea: you should get some IT support who are happy to add SetEnvs to apache configs ;-)
16:03 slef Barrc: not off the top of my head. Can you quantify "longer"?
16:04 wizzyrea you're right! I totally should! I hear there's a document going out about that ;)
16:04 owen Starting test of jQueryUI for tabs: http://screencast.com/t/dpDZM1VOipxm
16:04 slef wizzyrea: oh, was that what was in that Word attachment? I thought it was only open to MS customers ;-)
16:04 wizzyrea owen: it works!
16:04 wizzyrea >.<
16:04 Barrc Well, it seems the time it now exactly what is specified in cront, 2 minutes. I have the old system here and the cron is set to 2 mins too but the addition is immediate
16:04 wizzyrea I'll send it again if you want lol (can't believe he did that… send a word doc to a foss community… doh)
16:05 hdl owen nice
16:05 owen Unfortunately the latest version of jQueryUI doesn't play nice with the version of jQuery in Koha
16:05 slef (seriously, I'll try to take a look at that doc and see if it's open to us)
16:05 owen So either we take the last version back of jUI or we do the conversion in concert with the jQuery upgrade
16:05 wizzyrea slef: I'll send you a copy that isn't in a dumb format
16:05 wizzyrea which is your preferencs?
16:05 wizzyrea preference*
16:05 jcamins Barrc: I suspect it's just a coincidence- you happened to add records right before the cron job reindexed.
16:06 slef Barrc: which URL are you adding them from?
16:06 Barrc I have tested it tough, straight after the crontab logs to the log file. The addition happens straight away!
16:08 slef Coming back to noting which marcxml fields koha has regenerated: is @marc 993 OK? A subtag? Something else?
16:08 jcamins slef: sorry, got distracted.
16:08 jcamins 993 seems like a good choice.
16:08 jcamins That's what the ANS uses.
16:10 slef I'll email the list about this, just to make sure no-one goes nuts.
16:10 wizzyrea that one seems like it should be ok
16:10 Barrc slef: From authorities.pl, addbiblio.pl and additem.pl - is that what you mean?
16:11 wizzyrea and slef, if you make this corrupt record kills catalog search problem better
16:11 wizzyrea I don't know what I'll do, but something very nice.
16:11 slef I was wondering about 040$9 but I guess 04X should be a code.
16:11 druthb @roulette
16:11 munin druthb: *click*
16:11 druthb @roulette
16:11 slef Barrc: yes, that. Now I can search some code.
16:11 * munin reloads and spins the chambers.
16:11 * druthb chuckles.
16:11 Barrc thanks
16:12 kmkale owen whats the schedule on jquery update? if any?
16:14 slef Barrc: do you use BiblioAddsAuthority?
16:16 slef (3.00.05 17 Dec, 3.00.06 17 May)
16:16 slef Barrc: and MARC21 or UNIMARC?
16:17 slef ignore second question - seems irrelevant
16:18 owen kmkale: There's no schedule
16:18 owen I'd like to see it happen in time for 3.4 though
16:18 slef no, there's been no change to authorities indexing linked to those files or the C4 module that I found. Stopping looking.
16:19 kmkale owen: is there a list of problems in upgrading to latest jquery somewhere?
16:19 Barrc slefl: MARC21
16:19 owen kmkale: Bug 5449
16:19 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5449 blocker, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, JSON malformed in Koha - Blocker with jQuery 1.4.x
16:19 owen kmkale: But I'm not sure everything has been thoroughly tested yet
16:20 owen kmkale: There may be other issues no one has discovered
16:20 Barrc Not sure about BiblioAddsAuthority, where is that called?
16:20 kmkale owen: i was wondering about that. How do we get wide testing without it being tried by a bigger audience..
16:23 owen kmkale: I guess the first step is to get a branch set up that people can test
16:23 owen kmkale: But we still depend on the willingness of folks to spend time testing
16:24 kmkale owen: yup. I would be willing to do some testing if you could point out something.
16:28 jwagner wizzyrea, have you ASKED your present vendor for help diagnosing the problem?
16:28 wizzyrea yep
16:30 jwagner Ticket #? I'll investigate
16:30 wizzyrea You mean for the stuff slef is working on?
16:30 jwagner No, for when you reported the problem to us
16:33 sekjal Barrc: BiblioAddsAuthority comes up every time you add or edit a MARC record through the staff client
16:34 sekjal Barrc: doesn't factor into bulk loads, or at least not as far as I can tell
16:35 wizzyrea yep, I have tons of those, gimme a min.
16:36 Barrc OK. This is only for records added in the Staff client. There are no records added in bulk
16:39 sekjal Barrc: alright, so if you turn that on, any authority-linked heading in your biblios (as determined by your MARC framework) will search for an existing authority record to link to
16:39 sekjal if it finds one, it links, if not, it creates a brief authority, and links
16:39 sekjal the brief authorities will just include the current heading, and a 667$a indicating they were machine-created
16:44 Barrc sekjal: Is this a SysPref I need to switch on?
16:44 sekjal Barrc: yes, BiblioAddsAuthorities is a syspref, under Authorities
16:45 Barrc How does this effect addition of Authorities? (by that I mean direct Authority creation in the Authorities page - not from within a bib) The are also taking 2 mins to appear?
16:47 sekjal Barrc: authorities added in the authorities interface will not be linked to your biblios automatically
16:47 sekjal and they will show up in search once your rebuild_zebra.pl -a -z cronjob has run... every 2 min is pretty standard
16:48 Barrc I know! I think I am confusing you! The problem is the delay in any newly created item/bib/authority being available to use (search) not just for Authority linking. If a new Authority is created in isn't availabl to use for 2 mins
16:49 sekjal Barrc: essentially, yes
16:50 sekjal the record can be accessed if you have it's system number, but can't be found through any kind of search, which is the only way to retrieve authorities right now, as far as I know
16:50 Barrc But in the old version it was available immediately - that's what I am querying. I have 2 systems, side by side. One is 3.005 the other 3.006 both create a new auth, 3.005 is available now, 3.006 isn;t
16:51 wizzyrea 9890, 8698, 7990, 5449 to name a few
16:52 sekjal Barrc: hmmm, interesting. I'm not as familiar with the 3.0.x line, since I mostly work off master. I couldn't say what changes may have been introduced between 3.0.5 and 3.0.6 to cause that...
16:53 Barrc Its strange alright!
16:53 slef I've looked (we are familiar with 3.0.x because we ship the latest stable koha - last of the well-behaved?) and can't see any changes between them which would cause it. It is very strange.
16:55 drulm Hello, is Solr a 'go' or still in debate? Thanks!
16:55 slef Barrc: you don't have zebraqueue_daemon running as well on your 3.0.5, do you?
16:55 slef drulm: both?
16:55 ibot both are things I could work on but not sure it makes sense :)
16:56 owen ibot: Forget both
16:56 ibot owen: I forgot both
16:56 slef ibot: forget paris
16:56 ibot slef, I didn't have anything matching paris
16:56 Barrc slef: I do, yeah. Not on 3.006 though - could that be it?
16:56 slef Barrc: definitely.
16:57 drulm So no on Solr or no on both? :)
16:57 Barrc But that's depricated now, isn't it?
16:57 slef yes, but still works
16:57 hdl drulm: it is a work in progress for BibLibre
16:57 Barrc um, should I fire it up - are there any reason why I shouldn't use it?
16:57 drulm A-OK.
16:58 slef Barrc: Probably if you prefer its behaviour. There's only the concern that we don't know how much longer it exists.
16:59 Barrc OK, I though there was a more serious problem with it. I will start it at see if that helps the problem - thanks.
17:00 drulm Something that would be nice for 3.4 would be something other vendors have which is simplified reporting with graphical interface using something nice like Raphael toolkit (open source)
17:01 kmkale bye all good night
17:01 drulm Good morning
17:04 owen drulm: Unless you can drum up some funding that seems unlikely for 3.4
17:04 drulm owen: I shall use a bass drum
17:06 drulm owen: We landed a 106K grant this year, so this may put us in line to get some more. Need to find the time to write another one. The 106K one was a big collaboration.
17:26 Barrc Last question for the day! If I wanted to add some extra tags to the Staff Client detail.pl view should I being looking at one of the GetBiblio funtions in Biblio.pm?
17:41 magnus hi Nate
17:42 Nate hi magnus
17:47 jwagner wizzyrea, I looked up those tickets. They each referred to a specific problem title or search, which was fixed. What's your email address? I'll send you a more complete description of why the problem is happening.
17:48 wizzyrea that's great, except that no effort that I am aware of was made to actually fix why that was happening, like slef is trying to do
17:51 slef PTFS probably don't have as many examples of this - probably have fewer multilingual/non-latin libraries
17:51 slef It's remarkably difficult to discover the source of a corrupt record. Koha doesn't keep detailed history of records.
17:52 jwagner Actually, the problem we're seeing with your catalog is related to having massive numbers of items attached to title records. That's why we've done development to decouple them -- to pull the item entries out of biblioitems.marc.
17:52 jwagner (And yes, that development will be released as soon as the sponsor approves).
17:52 jwagner slef's corruption appears to be from different reasons.
17:52 owen Those fickle sponsors.
17:52 slef (released = git topic branch, based on head?)
17:53 jwagner Have to ask our developers that. I are at kindergarten level in git.
17:53 wizzyrea oh, this is the development that forked you into LEK, right?
17:53 wizzyrea or one of them
17:54 jwagner It was done for LEK before we purchased LL, yes. We've brought it over into our main code line.
17:54 jwagner I'm told that's the version you have on your sandbox, but you said you didn't want to work with it.
17:56 wizzyrea are you also familiar with the fact that in one hour of testing, we found about 6 show stopping bugs?
17:57 jwagner To the best of my knowledge, the same problem with large numbers of items still exists in Koha 3.2
17:57 jwagner I'm not directly involved with the development and testing, but I'd be happy to check any bugs you've found.
17:58 slef The large numbers of items thing is a known bug with how koha uses MARC, yes.
18:36 chris morning
18:36 wasabi morning chris
18:36 jwagner morning/afternoon/whatever....
18:37 * jwagner is about to sign off and take a nap
18:37 wasabi hiya jane :)
18:37 jwagner Hi there
18:37 ibot que tal, jwagner
18:37 jwagner And when robots start talking to you, you know you're in trouble!
18:38 magnus ata marie, chris!
18:39 magnus hiya Brooke
18:40 Brooke :) hi.
18:40 magnus @wunder gardermoen, norway
18:40 munin magnus: The current temperature in 5 Km NNE of Gardermoen OSL Norway, Dal, Norway is -16.1�C (7:41 PM CET on December 08, 2010). Conditions: Light Snow Showers. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: -19.0�C. Windchill: -16.0�C. Pressure: 29.70 in 1005.6 hPa (Steady).
18:40 Brooke ah! I'm freezing just looking at that!
18:40 * druthb shivers, just *thinking* of -16C
18:40 chris @wunder bucklame
18:40 munin chris: Error: No such location could be found.
18:40 magnus @wunder bodo, norway
18:40 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is -1.0�C (7:20 PM CET on December 08, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 80%. Dew Point: -4.0�C. Windchill: -3.0�C. Pressure: 29.56 in 1001 hPa (Steady).
18:40 chris @wunder auckland nz
18:40 munin chris: The current temperature in Auckland, New Zealand is 14.0�C (7:00 AM NZDT on December 09, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 94%. Dew Point: 13.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
18:40 druthb @wunder 20852
18:40 munin druthb: The current temperature in Woodley Gardens, Rockville, Maryland is -0.4�C (1:40 PM EST on December 08, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 37%. Dew Point: -13.0�C. Windchill: -4.0�C. Pressure: 29.97 in 1014.8 hPa (Steady).
18:41 magnus Gardermoen had -21 when i was there this morning (it's the airport for oslo)
18:41 Brooke Why would anyone want to know the temp in Auckland?
18:41 wasabi i missed the SOLR meeting… :/
18:42 wasabi i wanted to say the CJK analyzers in SOLR look very impressive
18:43 Brooke that could be good news.
18:44 wasabi http://www.basistech.com/knowledge-center/search/Lucene-Solr-for-the-Rest-of-the-World.pdf
18:45 wasabi … this is something that zebra is missing
18:47 chris Brooke: cos im there
18:47 magnus wasabi: you will have another chance on the 15th, methinks
18:47 chris wasabi: i have no issue with solr
18:47 chris i think adding it is a great idea
18:47 * Brooke comforts Chris.
18:47 wasabi there are a few different CJK analyzers for SOLR even
18:47 chris but i dont think trashing zebra support to do so is such a great idea
18:48 wasabi yes, i have to agree....
18:48 chris you and I can run a java stack, we have the machines and money and time
18:48 chris not everyone has that luxury
18:50 magnus cjk?
18:51 wasabi chttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CJK_characters
18:51 wasabi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CJK_characters
18:51 wasabi oops..
18:51 wasabi CJK is a collective term for Chinese, Japanese, and Korean,
18:51 magnus ah, thanks
18:52 wasabi http://lucene.apache.org/java/2_2_0/api/org/apache/lucene/analysis/cjk/package-summary.html
18:53 wasabi its a very complex/difficult area of searching
18:54 wasabi and currently impossible with zebra?
18:54 magnus i can('t) imagine that...
18:55 wasabi zebra can store/display CJK characters just fine...
18:56 Brooke hmmm
18:56 * jwagner goes off to run errands, eat lunch, and take a nap. Not necessarily in that order.
18:56 chris you can do all sorts of things with icu, just because we havent yet, doesnt mean we cant
18:56 Brooke I read a thingamabobber on Koha and CJK recently...now I've to remember where...
18:56 wasabi but searching CJK characters with zebra becomes difficult, because there are no spaces between words ;)
18:56 chris but yeah, the features comparison of zebra vs solr
18:56 Brooke and Mr. Mao was not the responsible party...
18:56 chris doesnt interest me in the slightest
18:57 chris its the implementation i have issues with
18:57 Brooke ah here we go
18:57 Brooke http://www.ifla.org/files/hq/papers/ifla75/135-chang-en.pdf
18:58 Brooke I remember thinking "Brooke, this is dumb to read. You'll never use that information..."
18:58 wasabi oooooh, solr has 3 analyzers for chinese alone...
18:58 sekjal I'm all for adding Solr support. It's got lots of strengths. But yeah, we have to keep supporting Zebra, too
18:59 wasabi http://lucene.apache.org/java/2_9_0/api/all/org/apache/lucene/analysis/cjk/package-summary.html
18:59 sekjal once both are viable options for Koha, natural selection can pick which survives into the long term (or both!)
18:59 chris sekjal++
18:59 wasabi yeah, thats how i see it too
19:00 sekjal if adding Solr support makes us generalize some of the search code, all the better. I'm still toying with the idea of using a native XML database for biblio, authority and patron info
19:00 magnus sekjal++
19:00 chris sekjal: you should have a chat with gmcharlt
19:01 chris he had some good ideas around generalising the search code
19:01 sekjal cool, thanks chris
19:06 wasabi Brooke: thanx for the pdf link
19:06 Brooke my pleasure
19:06 * Brooke is occasionally useful.
19:12 cait hi #koha
19:12 Brooke hi :)
19:13 cait hi brooke :)
19:21 magnus hi cait
19:21 cait hi magnus :)
19:26 hdl slef : The large numbers of items thing is a known bug with how koha uses MARC, yes. I posted a wip branch on how to remove items out of the marc... I Had no feedback about that.
19:27 hdl sekjal: I'm all for adding Solr support. It's got lots of strengths. But yeah, we have to keep supporting Zebra, too.... I am all for that... It is just that you know days last for only 24 hours.
19:27 sekjal hdl: true, unless you're traveling home from New Zealand.... that day was about 38 hrs
19:27 sekjal at least for me
19:28 Brooke heh
19:28 Brooke would that I were not traveling in the wrong direction, I'd have liked that day.
19:28 magnus so if we make sekjal travel home from nz 2-3 times a week... ;-)
19:28 hdl If gmcharlt has precise ideas of how to do that... there have been still no post... no commits about that.
19:29 hdl I would also love to have 38 hours a day... every day... But then corpse might not follow.
19:29 Brooke no, no, Paul would find out and work you even harder. ;)
19:30 sekjal magnus: if someone will pay for direct flights, sure....
19:30 hdl Imagine all the miles you would get in the year...
19:30 hdl But wait... would ruin the planet :D
19:30 sekjal solar powered planes
19:31 sekjal all that wingspan has to be good for something aside from lift
19:31 hdl charles bronson...
19:31 Brooke one way waka.
19:31 Brooke If I manage to paddle to NZ, I ought get to stay there indefinitely.
19:34 hdl I also had great ideals and great ideas about how it should / had to be done... But we have to cope with everyday libraries problems + design new stuff + fix internal bugs + organising meetings and convince man to man... that what we are doing can be profitable for the wole community.
19:45 magnus i guess limited amounts of time are a problem for most of us, so getting anyone to look deeply into something will be hard, most of the time. maybe it would help if rfcs had a timeframe for comments. and once there is wip to look at: an open test installation running the wip, along with a description of what to look for - what is different/new
19:46 magnus (not meant as criticism of biblibre or anything, just some thoughts from a n00b...)
19:50 * cait hands out some spiced wine from the christmas market
19:53 * Brooke downs it.
19:54 Brooke danke!
19:54 cait Gern geschehen ;)
19:56 cait @wunder Konstanz
19:56 munin cait: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 9.8�C (8:55 PM CET on December 08, 2010). Conditions: Light Rain Showers. Humidity: 96%. Dew Point: 9.0�C. Windchill: 9.0�C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1002.9 hPa (Steady).
19:56 Brooke it's practically balmy.
19:57 magnus that's hot!
19:58 wizzyrea magnus: all of those things appeal to me
19:58 cait yeah, quite unusual
19:58 Brooke @wunder 01235
19:58 munin Brooke: The current temperature in chester hill, Chester, Massachusetts is -6.2�C (2:59 PM EST on December 08, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 57%. Dew Point: -13.0�C. Windchill: -6.0�C. Pressure: 30.11 in 1019.5 hPa (Steady).
19:58 Brooke Chester is no where near there, ye littlle...
20:01 cait the light rain showers are not so light
20:01 cait glad to be home now
20:02 * sekjal remembers the Christmas markets in Germany... and the Glühwein
20:02 cait :)
20:02 hdl magnus: RFCs and test interfaces... is what we did.
20:04 hdl magnus: we even made a precise announcement... We tried to inform of what we planned to do... And what we could not do... but how that could be done.
20:04 magnus hdl: cool! my main points were timeframes and descriptions of what to look for in a test/wip interface - of course the last one puts even more work on the shoulders of the developing party...
20:05 hdl we already did that.
20:06 magnus hm, not brilliant ideas from me then, if they didn't work for you...
20:08 hdl Maybe a mis-conception of what the word community means.
20:09 magnus ?
20:09 hdl time to leave. 21PM
20:09 hdl see you
20:09 magnus good night hdl
21:01 chobbs Any ideas on automating patron updates? Since upgrading to 3.2 beta, we've had to split our updates into chucks of ~1000 patrons to do updates. With 13K kids, that makes it more of a chore than it ought to be. we were able to do all 13K in one go under 3.0.
21:01 chobbs s/chucks/chunks/ - we don't have that many Chucks :)
21:03 cait chobbs: perhaps you shoudl report a bug when there is that big of a difference
21:03 chobbs cait: Good point
21:03 cait never tried to load that many borrowers - our libraries are quite small
21:04 cait I was not aware of the difference between the versions
21:04 chobbs But I still would like to automate it, ratehr than rely on my operations person to export/split/load each week.
21:04 chobbs Even removing the split, it's 10-15 minutes I could free up weekly.
21:04 darling chobbs, how is it failing?
21:04 chobbs darling: Apache time-out after about 10 minutes.
21:05 darling ah
21:11 slef @later tell hdl I didn't know about your wip items branch. I must have I missed the announcement.
21:11 munin slef: The operation succeeded.
21:13 slef chobbs: it's probably possible to load the updates from the command-line, removing apache from the equation. It would still take as long, but apache wouldn't time out. This would be an enhancement, requiring more development :-(
21:16 chobbs slef: Thanks. Was hoping there'd be a "simple" hack I could use without requiring new work on the devs' part.
21:17 jwag_away nick jwagner
21:17 jwagner that little slash does help....
21:17 chobbs Wonder if its possible to script with cURL to do this.
21:17 slef chobbs: there might be some problem slowing your koha down, but it's hard to tell without detailed study. I don't know of a general bug with it.
21:18 slef chobbs: yes, probably scriptable, too.
21:25 cait good night all
21:44 chobbs OK, curl is pretty slick :-)
22:00 magnus good night all
22:00 robin chobbs / slef: a better way (requiring dev though) would be to a) fix the slowness, annd b) use the background task handling.
22:00 robin that way you wouldn't get apache timeouts, even on huge amounts of data.