Time Nick Message
23:59 chris_n as well as anyone else who is versed in installing koha in any of the various languages other than en
23:58 munin chris_n: The operation succeeded.
23:58 chris_n @later tell cait if you have a chance to give it a look I would be grateful for the help
23:58 munin chris_n: The operation succeeded.
23:58 chris_n @later tell cait http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=wip/koha-chris_n.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/syspref_fix
23:57 munin chris_n: The operation succeeded.
23:57 chris_n @later tell cait I've pushed a very raw and mostly untested update for the various sysprefs.sql files to my own repo
22:32 drulm thd: I saw that. Yes.
22:24 thd good night hdl
22:22 thd hdl: Which is why I have not pressed Knowledge Integration and Index Data excessively for quick answers.
22:22 thd hdl: I am very patient. I prefer careful answers to hasty ones.
22:21 thd drulm: Today's meeting was a special topic meeting on BibLibre Solr/Lucene work.
22:21 irmaB Sorry but I have to go already... goodnight/goodday all ;-)
22:21 hdl We might need some time to answer though.
22:21 hdl thd: sure... please ask...
22:20 thd drulm: There is a general #koha meeting tomorrow.
22:19 irmaB Indeed
22:19 thd irmaB: Discussion is always constructive :)
22:19 drulm There is a meeting tomorrow, no?
22:19 irmaB OK shall read the log. Was it constructive?
22:19 thd hdl: If I put some questions to BibLibre on the mailing list about how something is working in your Solr/Lucene work will someone from BibLibre take the time to explain briefly?
22:18 hdl yes.
22:18 irmaB Is meeting over?
22:18 irmaB Hi hdl ... sorry I am so late
22:18 hdl hi irmaB
22:17 hdl ?
22:17 thd hdl: just before you go
22:17 hdl good night folks
22:15 drulm "clear as a Summers day of purest azure"
22:13 wizzyrea yay!
22:13 drulm yes, works for me
22:13 wizzyrea make sense?
22:12 wizzyrea instead of on the track for 3.4
22:12 wizzyrea which should put you on stable 3.2.x
22:12 wizzyrea git checkout -b 3.2.x --track origin/3.2.x
22:12 wizzyrea you'd do
22:12 wizzyrea if you want to track the current stable branch
22:11 wizzyrea 3.03 is the development branch of Koha, or what we sometimes refer to as "HEAD"
22:09 drulm I just wondered about the 3.03.00.004 Koha version number. Does this somehow mean "3.2" ?
22:02 wizzyrea you said you were having a problem with git?
22:01 wizzyrea no sir :)
21:56 drulm Hello, is the meeting still on
21:53 thd good night hdl
21:51 Brooke right. I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date.
21:48 hdl good night all
21:38 clrh good night
21:33 thd good night cait
21:32 cait good night all
21:17 thd hdl: How does YAML help specifically as opposed to not using YAML or how links between biblios and authorities had been built previously. I think that YAML may have many uses so my curiosity was sparked when I noticed use of YAML.
21:14 thd hdl: I try too understand your work deeply, although, I mostly concentraited on how to fix the Z39.50/SRU server issue.
21:12 thd hdl: http://git.biblibre.com/?p=koha;a=blob;f=misc/migration_tools/bulkmarcimport.pl;hb=refs/heads/wip/solr
21:12 hdl And then when I import a biblio file which have links to authorities... I load this YAML file and builds the links.
21:11 hdl with Koha authority id and the Heading and the authority record id
21:11 hdl Well I am producing a YAML from authority import
21:11 * thd finding link
21:10 thd hdl: How does YAML help for linking authorities, and why did I not use it in addbiblio.pl?
21:10 hdl thd can you give me a link to the file you speack about ?
21:09 thd hdl: PM as you wrote in your mailing list message is meaningless for UTC. AM avoids possible confusion of some people.
21:09 hdl thd we are using YAML in order to link authorities...
21:08 hdl at 11AM UTC
21:07 hdl Next meeting on wendnesday 15th
21:07 munin Log: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2010/koha.2010-12-07-20.00.log.html
21:07 munin Minutes (text): http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2010/koha.2010-12-07-20.00.txt
21:07 munin Minutes: http://librarypolice.com/koha-meetings/2010/koha.2010-12-07-20.00.html
21:07 munin Meeting ended Tue Dec 7 21:08:37 2010 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
21:07 hdl #endmeeting
21:07 thd OK
21:07 hdl and will answer you.
21:07 hdl thd: let me end the meeting
21:06 thd hdl: What is the function of the use of YAML in your proof of concept or work in progress especially in bulkmarcimport.pl?
21:06 hdl Thanks for your interest. I hope that you can test and send patches or at least see what we achieved.
21:06 hdl on list, or by chan.
21:05 clrh I'll try to be more present on the channel next weeks
21:05 thd hdl: I have been very detailed which takes much time.
21:05 clrh we really wants to work with you this is why we are here...
21:05 hdl any question you have, any comments on the way we did things. you can tell us.
21:05 thd hdl: I am sorry that I did not have my report ready well in advance of the meeting.
21:04 hdl n
21:04 hdl No conclusion... Because we have to work and either make that happen or make another thing happe.
21:04 thd slef: This is free software. It is never finished. :)
21:03 thd slef: There are reports of Zebra failing.
21:03 slef Now I must go elsewhere. Sorry. Bye all.
21:03 slef It is frustrating that there is no conclusion to this.
21:03 thd slef: The most significant problem I see reported for Zebra is one which hdl does not repeat clearly.
21:02 thd hdl: Some people have doubted that problems with Zebra when using the ICU are Zebra problems. I could test at least one of those problems readily with my own non-Koha code which has been well tested for character encoding if you provide a Z39.50 server with claimed problems.
21:02 slef thd: Yes, it does look like BibLibre asking others to work for free. :-( For reasons explained above, I don't see how to make this paid.
21:02 hdl At least, we wanted to come to you and share all the stuff we did.
21:02 hdl It is quite frustrating we could not take out with a real plan... or actions out of this meeting.
21:01 hdl We are trying to make it so that what we claim to do. We actually do.
21:00 hdl For instance availability search is not working.
20:59 hdl But not always. and not on all the features it claims to provide.
20:59 thd slef: Yes, which is why BibLibre is hoping that you will help.
20:59 hdl It works.
20:59 hdl cait: I donot say it doesnot work at all.
20:59 slef thd: sure, but it's still not zero.
20:59 cait hdl: sorry, I think it could be improved, but saying it does not work at all seems not right to me
20:58 slef <hdl> slef: have you ever tried to fix a C4::Search bug ?
20:58 thd hdl++ SearchEngine independence
20:58 hdl of what ?
20:58 slef hdl: I've no memory and searching suggests not.
20:58 hdl And tried to do something quite SearchEngine Independant.
20:58 hdl We began the work.
20:57 thd slef One hopes that the work involved in refactoring Zebra support to not be the only option would be very much less than the work in adding Solr/Lucene support.
20:57 hdl It really needed revamping.
20:57 hdl Have you ever dived into that code ?
20:57 hdl slef: have you ever tried to fix a C4::Search bug ?
20:56 hdl most people... not in France.
20:56 slef yeah, this is a basic problem I'm having... what's the incentive for someone to write||fund Data::SearchEngine::Zebra? Zebra currently works for most people most of the time.
20:56 hdl And do some on the fly weighting.
20:55 hdl We could achieve relevancy.
20:55 hdl We could also build dynamically fomrs
20:55 hdl could be written with a Data::SearchEngine::Query
20:54 hdl Data::SearchEgine::Zebra
20:54 slef clrh: how do I add "run on a 512Mb server" to it? ;-)
20:54 hdl #topic what could be done
20:54 darling slef, integrating w/it doesn't mean needing to deal w/java (though app server config matters would be a thing)
20:54 hdl in the 5 last minutes.
20:53 clrh better?
20:53 clrh #link https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AuZF5Y_c4pIxdEVzTjUtUGFoQnFpSkpfbTU5Ykc3b2c&hl=en&output=html
20:53 slef clrh: "Sign in to your account at BibLibre"?
20:53 darling I have to run off to a mtg right now. My parting thoughts are: solr is tasty but not a simple option, I suspect we will be glad once it's in and , pocket sized installations shouldn't have to use it
20:53 clrh oups maybe bad link
20:53 thd cait: I agree with you that we should retain options until we are satisfied that the Solr/Lucene solution is ready to replace Zebra for local indexing.
20:53 clrh #link https://spreadsheets.google.com/a/biblibre.com/ccc?key=0AuZF5Y_c4pIxdEVzTjUtUGFoQnFpSkpfbTU5Ykc3b2c&hl=en#gid=1
20:52 slef What's the ggl page?
20:52 slef I don't think there's any point polling our members for whether we could fund it from our community fund because it involves java, which is no fun.
20:52 hdl slef: I will try and assing all the questions you asked.
20:52 hdl there are plenty ways to do.
20:52 slef I'll poll our libraries, but I suspect the concerns of needing java and lots more memory will outweigh the benefits, including some of the claims I questioned without any reply.
20:51 thd cait: I agree with the assertion which paul_p has made, that long term support for multiple record indexing models has proven too much for the size of the Koha project support community in the past.
20:51 hdl add itt
20:51 hdl you think of a use case.
20:51 hdl you have your use cases : add yours
20:51 hdl look at the ggl page.
20:51 hdl use cases and regression tests.
20:51 Brooke Today it is solr/zebra, tomorrow it will be something else.
20:50 Brooke How do we reconcile profitability with community? Agility with stability?
20:50 hdl And let us work together... rather than in //
20:50 Brooke I am aware of that. It is important to note that distinction, too.
20:50 hdl At least just consider what we do...
20:49 hdl Brooke: I donot ask for more than what ppl are willing to do.
20:49 hdl cait : but quite rapidly deprecated.
20:49 thd LibLime funded support contracts for Zebra on their own but that was not necessarily a reasonable option.
20:49 Brooke what can't be expected is collaboration for a BibLibre deadline when other individuals have their own timeframes and projects.
20:49 hdl (but yes, only solr)
20:49 cait thd: noZebra was kept as an option
20:48 hdl Installer should be ok with solr now. We have an installing option for solr core support.
20:48 Brooke thd++
20:48 thd No one should expect BibLibre to do this alone any more than we expected LibLime to add Zebra support alone.
20:47 thd hdl: I will add a more important case to your count which at least demonstrates scalability in a relatively simple configuration if money is spent on hardware. Wikipedia uses Lucene indexing via some extensions. If it scales for Wikipedia it can really scale with the hardware caveat.
20:47 hdl And it would just be insane.
20:47 hdl But we won't be able to do the whole lot alone...
20:46 hdl And say we are at this point of the road...
20:46 hdl And we began the work. And we come to you in order to show you what we achieved.
20:45 hdl C4::Search Had to be revamped...
20:45 hdl But we donot have any ressource on that.
20:45 darling (our use of solr here is mostly for drupal sites we run)
20:45 slef clrh: which still doesn't make it drupal.
20:45 hdl darling: Data::SearchEngine::Zebra... COULD be written.
20:44 darling cait++, and I would expect that the integration would be in such a way that would facilitate slipping in things other than solr later (or sooner, like for smaller setups)
20:44 thd hdl: in the case of the OPACS such as VuFind and BlackLight remember that they are merely OPACs with the real library system and its own OPAC underneath.
20:44 clrh it is an extension module more and more used slef
20:44 hdl And it is really time consuming without any tests... or use case... to build regression tests.
20:44 slef drupal uses solr? I thought it was some extension module
20:44 cait all those are discovery interfaces - no ILs
20:43 hdl We had no time doing that.
20:43 thd slef: MS Windows standard :)
20:43 hdl Vufind, BlackLight, Drupal and XC (but it is durpal based)
20:43 druthb cait++
20:42 Brooke cait++
20:42 hdl But I think that we had to share the point we achieved.
20:42 darling slef, fair enough
20:42 thd hdl: Which 4 solutions do you mean?
20:42 slef darling: those are the same sort of arguments which lead to calling Windows "standard" which I don't ;-)
20:42 cait we should start with an option, if most people start using it we can drop zebra perhaps sometime in the future
20:42 hdl cait it may not be for 3.4
20:41 hdl and i know at least 4 solutions using solr.
20:41 cait I really have a bad feeling about a hasty replacement
20:41 hdl slef: at least, it is wide spread. and is doing quite a good job "out of the box."
20:41 darling slef, it's widely used engouh that I would call it a standardish solution
20:41 thd hdl: The experience of BlackLight is very informative on the issue of storing full bibliographic records in Solr/Lucene.
20:41 cait hdl: I think you can not argument everybody else is using it
20:40 slef Who has declared it a standard?
20:40 thd hdl: Solr/Lucene corrupts ISO2709 records. Lucene has a binary storage type which Solr/Lucene does not.
20:40 hdl But solr is quite a standard nowadays.
20:40 darling I'm working on a project right now that's indexing about 40k documents of about 5k of structured text each and it's so far not been trouble -- and it's very fast and sweet -- but tricky to configure and gives unclear error messages when it fails -- I like it but don't yet trust it
20:40 hdl Colin: other options could be Nutch or so...
20:39 Brooke and how do we compare apples to apples with the current iterations absent performance guidelines?
20:39 hdl indexing marcxml data or even iso2709
20:39 Colin Did you evaluate any other options apart from Solr?
20:39 Brooke what would be a reasonable benchmark?
20:39 thd hdl: How do you intend to return full MARC records for a Z39.50/SRU server when using Solr/Lucene?
20:38 darling we have a practise of putting each solr intance on an isolated vm for that reason
20:37 darling for what it's worth, at Catalyst we use it from time to time -- there are setups than run very smoothly and make no trouble; there are some where it sometimes goes insane
20:37 thd I personally favour SimpleServer at the moment but Ian Ibbotson from Knowledge Integration and Sebastian Hammer from Index Data indirectly alerted me to an important problem for having a Z39,50/SRU server.
20:37 hdl But it is a thing we will do.
20:36 hdl We never stressed it severely though.
20:36 hdl well, it has been quite slow. even indexing 300000 biblios.
20:35 slef On the exploding memory consumption theme: my big concern with solr is *its* memory usage (reportedly at least a gigabyte, more than all of koha 3.0 including a base OS, which would mean more expensive servers would be needed for koha libraries). How is solr memory usage on biblibre servers?
20:35 thd Simple2Zoom is another option in principle for a Z39.50/SRU server.
20:35 hdl Well we envision a support contract, but more on solr issues than on zebra or z3950.
20:35 thd Even some cryptic options in SimpleServer would need a support contract to understand well.
20:34 thd The only hope of fixing issues is a support contract.
20:34 thd I do not have a full set of responses but have been writing a detailed report for the RFC.
20:33 thd I have investigated JZKit deeply as well as options from Index Data.
20:33 hdl Is there some fix for that ?
20:33 hdl thd: have you been in contact with the company working on that ?
20:32 hdl It seems that memory consumption goes exploding.
20:31 hdl thd: yes.
20:31 thd hdl: Do you mean JZKit?
20:31 hdl We will build a grammar....
20:31 hdl Well, since JZ3950 was proven to be quite ... disappointing.
20:30 thd ... for SimpleServer,
20:30 thd hdl: It is the limitation of query support which concerns me for the Z39.50/SRU server as we have to write that ourselves.
20:30 hdl more powerful and answering the needs.
20:29 hdl But we will work by the end of the year to have something.
20:29 clrh #link http://git.biblibre.com/?p=koha;a=blob;f=misc/z3950.pl;h=b373b7308f7133ab3f1a6698e2089a3cd7263940;hb=refs/heads/wip/solr
20:29 hdl At the moment, the queries decoded are only simple queries.
20:29 hdl using SimpleServer
20:29 hdl you can see the first commits for a Z3950 search engine on top of solr...
20:28 hdl thd : in the commits of the wip/solr branch of our git,
20:28 clrh #Å€ink https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AuZF5Y_c4pIxdEVzTjUtUGFoQnFpSkpfbTU5Ykc3b2c&hl=en&output=html
20:28 thd hdl: I am concerned that CCL, Pazpar2, and Zebra support should not be an either that or Solr/Lucene option. We need CCL and Pazpar2 for metasearch and we currently need Zebra for a Z39.50/SRU server.
20:27 hdl we gather use cases sa as not to loose any query that we could do in zebra.
20:27 hdl At the moment,
20:27 hdl And usage of authorities in biblio records.
20:26 hdl We already designed plugins as to search for rejected forms.
20:26 hdl And there are some plugins that we can add.
20:26 hdl you can add some indexes, and link them to the index user define.
20:26 clrh #link http://solr.biblibre.com/cgi-bin/koha/solr/indexes.pl
20:25 hdl and then you can see the page for indexes :
20:25 slef drulm: /msg me please, a meeting is on.
20:25 wizzyrea drulm: we're in a meeting
20:25 hdl You can then see the how the indexes can be edited and queried.
20:25 drulm Hello. git version question: I am drawing from git://git.koha-community.org/koha.git
20:24 thd There is an English expression, if you break it you have bought it which must have an equivalent in many languages. However, most of us recognise that the work should be done and is of importance to everyone.
20:24 hdl On intranet there is a demo/demo account.
20:24 hdl the two interfaces we built are there for you to try, test.
20:24 clrh #link http://solr.biblibre.com/
20:23 clrh #link http://catalogue.solr.biblibre.com/
20:23 hdl We work as crazy in order to make the whole change and have some very promising results.
20:22 hdl And limitted time.
20:22 hdl But again, we have limited ressources.
20:22 hdl I bet it is doable.
20:22 hdl Data::SearchEngine can be adapted in order to build RPN and CCL queries and work nicely with zebra.
20:21 clrh #link http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Data-SearchEngine-0.16/lib/Data/SearchEngine.pm
20:21 thd As hdl identifies, the method of calling the ICU in Zebra is an awkward add on from the point when Zebra had no Unicode support.
20:21 hdl We are building on top of Data::SearchEngine and Data::Pagination
20:21 hdl cait: we are trying to gather all the use cases so that features are not lost.
20:20 cait I am concerned about replacing it so fast - as you said it's an important feature of an ILS
20:20 hdl thd icu support in zebra is rather poor compared to the icu syntax and possibility.
20:19 thd ICU = International Components for Unicode a well supported project providing a Unicode programming library supported by IBM etc.
20:19 cait I think there are valid concerns about solr - so that it should at least be an option at first
20:19 hdl And we try to do it so that zebra can then be reintroduced.
20:19 hdl So we made a choice.
20:18 hdl Because we signed and are due to deliver a product on a specific time.
20:18 hdl cait at the moment, no.
20:18 cait hdl: so you are not implementing it as an option?
20:18 hdl And limited ressource.
20:17 hdl But we have limited time.
20:17 thd Solr/Lucene uses Java ICU which based on the same core ICU code as the C ICU used in Zebra.
20:17 * druthb giggles at ibot.
20:17 ibot hdl: that doesn't look right
20:17 hdl But change in a search engine in an ILS is quite strategic.
20:16 hdl darling: I acknowledge that solr should be an option.
20:16 rhcl rhcl = Greg Lawson, Rolling Hills Consolidated Library, lurker
20:16 hdl And all the things we explain in the blog.
20:15 hdl facets.
20:15 hdl utf8 support
20:15 hdl And with many built in features.
20:15 hdl With the ability to do full text indexing of documents.
20:15 hdl Solr brings along a widely used search engine.
20:14 hdl thd part of it yes.
20:14 Nate Nate Curulla, ByWater Solutions... Sorry for the lateness
20:14 darling slef, hdl -- depends on if the topic is "swap/deprecate zebra for solr" or "add support for solr as an alt search engine"
20:14 thd Some of the problems are problems of adding UNIMARC support which is a problem that does not go away by using Solr/Lucene.
20:14 hdl #topic solr : what it brings along and what we did
20:13 hdl ok slef... I will talk about what solr would bring along. and what we did...
20:13 slef I agree that some of the problems are with our usage of it, though, so C4::Search probably must change anyway.
20:13 hdl And most of the xslt embedded are cut out for USMARC where UNIMARC is not supporter.
20:12 slef Well, I think my problems with solr and my doubts with some of the accusations against zebra I've stated on the list, so I won't repeat them here unless you want them repeated.
20:12 hdl we are using grs1 when DOM indexing is favoured... but would have required much time to build...
20:11 thd Certainly, but the user unfriendliness could be factored out and translated to the unfriendly form if the query is intercepted.
20:11 hdl And More, some usage we are now doing of zebra is announced to be obsolete...
20:10 hdl Is not user friendly.
20:10 hdl ti,wrdl=huckleberry finn
20:10 hdl it is truly ccl search that is printed.
20:10 hdl well when you go on the results page.
20:09 thd The untranslatable strings problem is mistaken if the query is intercepted for translation or if a translation is provided for CCL, CQL, Solr/Lucene, etc. query configuration..
20:09 hdl any problem with what i am stating... ?
20:09 clrh #link http://www.biblibre.com/en/blog/entry/solr-developments-for-koha
20:09 hdl But I want to tell the context that prompted us into invetigating.
20:08 hdl All this has already been said...
20:08 hdl And left truncation).
20:08 hdl Completeness for instance.
20:08 hdl (facets, but also icu is quite disapointing.... since all the features in RPN are not embedded.
20:07 hdl It also proved that some announced features were not quite meeting the demand.
20:07 hdl It proved quite a nightmare to know if indexing was ok.
20:06 hdl Problem also with the search engine itself :
20:06 hdl Problem with the unability for users to order the indexes on advanced search page.
20:06 hdl Problem with the untranslatable strings from search
20:05 hdl problems with the hard coded indexes
20:05 chris_n Chris Nighswonger, FBC
20:05 hdl And we have had many problems with the actual implementation of zebra in Koha
20:04 hdl everyone agreed that C4::Search needed deep revamping.
20:04 hdl Reasons why we investiguated was that
20:04 hdl #topic Why we investigated solr
20:03 hdl ok. If anyone arrives late please chime in.
20:02 * jcamins_a = Jared Camins-Esakov, C & P Bibliography Services, lurking
20:02 darling Reed Wade, Catalyst
20:02 cfouts Clay Fouts, PTFS/LibLime
20:02 owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library, lurking
20:02 cait Katrin Fischer, BSZ
20:01 wizzyrea Liz Rea, NEKLS, Lurking
20:01 Colin Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe
20:01 * clrh Claire Hernandez, Biblibre
20:01 * slef = MJ Ray, worker-owner, software.coop
20:01 druthb == D Ruth Bavousett, Washington DC
20:01 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
20:01 * hdl = Henri-Damien LAURENT, BibLibre
20:00 hdl http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/7_December_2010
20:00 hdl First we could make a call of the persons and then begin on the agenda I published from the email.
19:59 slef hi hdl!
19:59 hdl Hi all
19:59 munin Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
19:59 munin Meeting started Tue Dec 7 20:00:45 2010 UTC. The chair is hdl. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:59 hdl #startmeeting solr search 7 December
19:59 * hdl will try to do some semi automated minutes
19:59 * Brooke hands slef a G&T.
19:58 cait chris_n: we loose some small things by using english translation though - but things you can fix without sql - standard salutations, relationship names
19:58 * slef tries to thaw out
19:58 Brooke Hi Colin
19:58 Colin Hi
19:58 hdl Hi Colin
19:58 hdl about to start meeting on solr ?
19:58 wizzyrea brooke: i'm surprised you're even here ^.^
19:57 chris_n cait: I agree, and as fredericd notes, they may not need translation due to the .pref files now
19:57 * Brooke is steeling herself for waking early on the morrow.
19:55 Brooke prolly wouldn't help. I am guilty of vast logical leaps and far too much humour.
19:54 cait or I need to work on my vocabulary :)
19:54 cait thx :)
19:54 druthb Gin and tonic, cait. :)
19:54 Brooke Clearly I need to pick up more German, Cait.
19:53 * cait sniffs a little because she never gets what Brooke says ;)
19:53 hdl hi all.
19:53 * druthb takes it, and sips carefully.
19:53 cait G&T?
19:53 * Brooke offers druthb a G&T.
19:53 druthb hi, cait. :)
19:53 cait hi druthb :)
19:49 wizzyrea of course you can.
19:49 wizzyrea it's like belt + suspenders
19:49 cait wizzyrea: you can hide them with jquery ;)
19:49 wizzyrea but that's just me
19:49 wizzyrea I think it's confusing
19:48 Brooke cait++
19:48 cait wizzyrea: I think having different ways is nice
19:48 wizzyrea migrate existing* data
19:48 wizzyrea spose you'd have to find a way to migrate that data into the messages
19:47 wizzyrea I wonder if we can remove the patron notes fields now that we have the messaging system
19:46 cait chris_n: if the files are fixed now I think we should maintain them in HEAD - or find another solution soon
19:46 bigbrovar hello Brooke
19:45 Brooke hi bigbrovar.
19:45 bigbrovar hi guys
19:45 Brooke howdy :)
19:45 cait hi Brooke
19:43 cait needs to learn how to do...
19:43 * cait needs to do such cool things too
19:43 cait hi clrh
19:42 clrh Hello everybody
19:42 cait ah
19:42 * chris_n semi-automated the updating based on the output of the test script
19:42 cait an example?
19:42 chris_n cait: too may to list
19:42 chris_n fredericd: if your explanation is the current mode, then I have no problem
19:41 cait chris_n: what are the prefs it complains about?
19:41 owen I don't think they count if you do four ++++
19:41 chris_n and so we lose new prefs that way
19:41 * chris_n wonders if some of the prefs the test states need to be removed really are just not in the en .sql file yet
19:40 cait chris_n++?
19:40 owen chris_n++
19:40 * cait thinks that too
19:40 owen Now cait you have to give him a single:
19:40 chris_n so that we don't continue with a mixture
19:40 cait yeah
19:40 chris_n but something needs to be determined *and* posted on the coding section of the wiki and announced on the list
19:40 cait and thx for telling - I was about starting with it hehe
19:39 chris_n that will fix the failed tests
19:39 cait chris_n++++
19:39 owen sylvar: And we do it that way so that interactions with the patron make sense. You don't want end up sending a notice to "Dr. Martin Jr. Luther King"
19:39 chris_n cait && fredericd: I'm about finished adding missing sysprefs to the other language .sql files, but they are not translated of course
19:39 cait hi brendan and hdl
19:39 sylvar Cool. Thanks, owen & wizzyrea.
19:38 owen sylvar: We do surname = "King, Jr."
19:38 hdl hi there.
19:37 brendan morning
19:32 wizzyrea mornin darling
19:31 darling helo koha land
19:19 wizzyrea :)
19:19 sylvar Fictional. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture#Names
19:19 wizzyrea O.O
19:18 * sylvar won't get into names like "Rasd-Coduresa Diziet Embless Sma da' Marenhide" ;)
19:18 wizzyrea that's how we do it
19:17 sylvar What's the usual practice for handling complicated names for borrowers? For example, would Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. have a surname of "King, Jr.", a firstname of "Martin Luther", and a title of "Dr."?
19:10 wizzyrea < is not an expert, however, just sayin
19:09 cait wizzyrea++ :)
19:04 wizzyrea so yea, that's probably why they have lots of pumpkin, because they've got several different climates conducive to pumpkin growing nearly year round
19:03 wizzyrea though I guess in the north you can plant them anytime between August and Feb
19:03 wizzyrea plant in oct/nov/dec
19:03 wizzyrea and yet more: http://www.gardengrow.co.nz/plant/Pumpkin
19:01 wizzyrea http://www.pumpkinnook.com/commune/nzgrowers.htm but it looks like their pumpkin harvest is in march (seems likely, as that's fall)
19:00 cait no idea :)
18:55 slef ohyeah... Did I ask the newzealanders why they had so many pumpkins on the menu in their spring? Do they grow a lot there, or are they imported?
18:51 cait ok, time to destroy my kitchen in an attempt to make pumkin soup
18:50 cait yeah, looks like magic
18:48 slef It's not the more understanable script ever ;-)
18:48 slef so I typed "wp tethering" to get the above explanation
18:47 cait ?
18:47 slef
18:47 slef
18:47 slef host -aQ "${PROXY// /_}.wp.dg.cx" | sed -e 's/" "//g;s/"$//;s/\\"/"/g;s/^.* "//'
18:47 slef PROXY="$*"
18:47 slef I've a two-line script called "wp" to do quick lookups:
18:46 cait thx - should have checked wikipedia - only tried leo to get a translation
18:46 slef I think we called it PAN (personal area networking) or mifi (mobile-to-wifi), but it might be something slightly different.
18:45 slef
18:45 slef Tethering in cellular wireless is the connection of a non-mobile device (e.g. desktop computer, notebook computer, laptop computer), to a mobile device (e.g. cell phone, PDA) for the purpose of wireless Internet access by the non-mobile "tethered" device. Examples of a tethered connection include: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tethering
18:44 cait slef: so you can explain the term to me?
18:35 slef I'd not heard that called tethering before. Live and learn.
18:33 cait fredericd: not so sure :)
18:29 fredericd it's a tribute to you :-)
18:27 cait fredericd: it's me - low bug tolerance ;)
18:24 Nate hiya cait!
18:24 cait hi Nate
18:20 cait but I am still not happy knowing about the problem in the other files :(
18:19 cait and it's not really translated, only things like father, mother, mrs. mr. etc.
18:19 cait German was added near or in feature freeze of 3.2 - so I am lucky here
18:19 cait the other translations are older
18:18 cait it's the newest file
18:18 fredericd yes and german syspref file seems almost up to date
18:18 cait for 3.21
18:18 cait but I will fix the German sys pref file if we will do that
18:17 cait we can
18:17 fredericd can't we keep them for 3.2 and remove them on HEAD when a patch will force using exlusively 'en' syspref SQL file?
18:16 cait yes, but what about the existing files?
18:16 cait only voting for a fast solution, that we can perhaps port back to 3.2
18:16 fredericd yes, 3.2 is a stable version and is not supposed to have entering a lot of new syspref
18:16 cait we will loose some featurs (like translations for salutations) by using the english files - but i think it's still the way to go
18:15 cait I have not looked at 3.2 yet, but I imagine the problem exists there too
18:15 fredericd you may not agree :-)
18:15 cait ah, was reading your mail about the sys prefs
18:14 fredericd cait: yes, almost
18:11 owen mib_lvwvr: I suggest you google "how to set up cron"
18:11 mib_lvwvr how to set up cron?
18:11 mib_lvwvr como configuro el cron?
18:08 cait y
18:08 cait you can start it manually for testing, but in production ou will want to use a cronjob to start it regularl
18:07 mib_lvwvr how I can activate the fines.pl
18:06 cait fredericd: around?
18:06 mib_lvwvr could somebody help me, please.
18:03 mib_lvwvr hello everybody! how I can activate the cron fines?
17:33 rhcl syl
17:32 wizzyrea later safe travels
17:32 chris Ok boarding, spotya
17:32 chris And planes did crash there
17:32 chris I only did that twice
17:32 rhcl yep, HK was an experience. Flying right between buildings.
17:32 wizzyrea !!!!
17:31 chris Look up kai tak landings on youtube
17:31 chris Landing at the old hong kong airport was more scary
17:31 wizzyrea we lol'd
17:31 wizzyrea though the flight attendants did tell us to toughen up ;)
17:31 chris Well those not from wellington anyway :)
17:30 trea that was pretty much worth it imo
17:30 wizzyrea well they clapped on ours too
17:30 chris Yep
17:30 trea hehe
17:30 trea did they all clap when you were stopped
17:30 wizzyrea lol don't tell trea that!
17:30 chris That was fun
17:30 trea erg
17:30 chris In fog
17:30 * chris has bounced, and landed hard twice
17:30 wizzyrea but I imagine the train ride, after 13 hours on a plane, would be a lovely change from yet more airport.
17:29 chris Nope never
17:29 wizzyrea plus there hasn't yet been a crash
17:29 trea heh
17:29 * jwagner congratulates chris on his native insouciance!
17:29 chris Its all good
17:29 chris If you didn't actually bounce
17:29 chris Pshaw
17:27 jwagner Next time I go to Wellington, I'm driving or taking the train down from Auckland....
17:26 wizzyrea the day we did it we had to have at least 2 whacks at the landing
17:25 jwagner I did have my doubts about landing, watching as we kept descending -- "I don't _THINK_ I booked a seaplane!"
17:24 wizzyrea coming in on the other hand...
17:24 chris Nope, mind you this must literally be the 100th time I've flown out of here bounces don't bother me
17:24 jwagner Both of mine were rather bouncy.
17:23 wizzyrea our flight out was perfectly lovely ^.^
17:23 wizzyrea fun fun
17:23 * jwagner hopes it isn't too windy at the airport....
17:23 chris 2 days of training and then a go live
17:23 wizzyrea teehee
17:22 chris Bucklame
17:22 wizzyrea where ya headed?
17:22 * chris waves from the wellington airport
17:19 wizzyrea hm, I guess the conversation about required versions of things died
17:12 wizzyrea owen++
17:12 * owen hides the whole feature from IE
17:08 * jwagner is also not a web developer so wouldn't have any ideas along that line anyway :-(
17:07 * jwagner doesn't know what tools owen is using, so doesn't know what to suggest
17:07 * owen stabs himself with a pen
17:07 owen In some other way? As in with no CSS or Javascript? Maybe...
17:07 trea heh
17:06 jwagner It can't be done in some other way? The idea is definitely nifty.
17:06 * owen puts it in a crate next to the Ark of the Covenant
17:06 owen I guess I'll just hide this feature away and hope IE9 is better. Or maybe IE10.
17:05 jwagner I know. Don't think I haven't pointed that out at GREAT length....
17:05 owen Never ceases to amaze me... the slowest, most insecure browser...
17:04 jwagner owen, there are still LOTS of sites whose IT departments only allow them to use IE, so I'd be leery of adding something that is known not to work in even the latest IE.
17:02 wizzyrea oo yea
17:02 owen (at least I think it's nifty)
17:02 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5285 enhancement, P5, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED, Let the user choose columns to show batch modification summary table
17:02 owen wizzyrea: Bug 5285
17:00 fredericd it may work with DOM, which requires works, a lot of...
17:00 wizzyrea which nifty feature
16:59 hdl i think it is owed to the way that icu is processing the chains.
16:59 fredericd hdl: thanks for the info
16:58 owen Hmmm... Nifty new feature fails in IE8. Wondering how much I should care...
16:56 hdl But... It is better when you know.
16:56 hdl in that case, n is not indexed with icu. So would not be a problem.
16:56 hdl Fred fredericd : as a side note, be warned that completeness or firstinfield doesnot seem to work in icu,
16:55 wizzyrea bleh
16:55 wizzyrea bye
16:55 nengard_ talk to you all later
16:55 nengard_ plane at gate
16:54 Fred good bye everyone!
16:54 jcamins So long, #koha.
16:53 jcamins Okay, time to head out.
16:50 trea rabblerousers, the whole lot :D
16:50 wizzyrea >.<
16:50 jcamins If it weren't for thre three of us, apparently there would be.
16:50 jcamins Yep.
16:50 brendan world peace++
16:49 wizzyrea and bring world peace
16:49 wizzyrea they also make you cookies for breakfast
16:49 wizzyrea mmm hmm.
16:49 jcamins Completely different.
16:49 jcamins No, it's Ctrl+W. :P
16:49 wizzyrea :D
16:49 wizzyrea it's just another key + w
16:48 wizzyrea sure it is ;)
16:48 jcamins ;)
16:48 jcamins wizzyrea: I'm sure chris would point out that's not a problem on free OSes.
16:45 wizzyrea damn you apple − w
16:43 Fred ok i note it, i was about asking about possible troubles as i was not sure to have 'really' resolved the main problem
16:41 fredericd Fred: You could go intro trouble tomorrow if your sn index is populated with non-numeric values, otherwise it's ok
16:39 Fred oh great :)
16:37 fredericd with your modif, you search the numeric index, strict equality and first in field (which can't be bad)
16:36 fredericd Fred: No it's good. In the normal ccl file, sn seems to be configured to search the 'w' (word) index rather than the 'n' (numeric)
16:27 Fred Thanks for all the help provided!
16:24 Fred still with my zebra searching error : i ve added some attributes to 'sn' in ccl.properties (4=109 2=3 3=1 perhaps a bit too much?) and now searching is going fine...
16:20 nengard_ wireless tether i wasn't able to make it work
16:20 sekjal ah
16:20 nengard_ i'm on easytether
16:20 sekjal Wireless Tether
16:20 nengard_ oh - which tethering app were you using?
16:20 sekjal than before
16:20 nengard_ sekjal, more reliable than what? it has seemed more reliable lately in general
16:19 sekjal I made a change on mine that seems to help[
16:19 nengard_ I'm actually only silver - thought I'd make gold this year but it doesn't look like I will
16:19 sekjal nengard_: is your tethering more reliable?
16:19 nengard_ heh
16:19 rhcl I'd love to have your ff miles.
16:19 nengard_ love me some tethering :)
16:18 nengard Heh
16:13 wizzyrea boo airport time
16:13 owen Bonus airport time!
16:11 nengard Bleh .. got to airport too early.. wish traffic was more predictible
15:33 Fred Title-host is defined in record.abs, not in bib1 or ccl
15:27 * slef tries to thaw out
15:19 jcamins owen: that's a great subject line for an e-mail... "Blood"
15:18 wizzyrea1 and I was all worried that I had done something dumb and forgotten to update the download page on k-c.org
15:18 wizzyrea1 heh
15:17 Fred ok
15:17 jcamins owen++ # for being really fast
15:17 owen koha.org strikes again.
15:16 hdl Fred : it seems that you have a problem with relevancy. Check that you have Title-host defined and used.
15:16 drulm Nice
15:15 hdl And plan to use that in a Z3950 server.
15:14 hdl drulm: no in fact we are developping an RPN2solr module.
15:13 laurenthd drulm: we are developping a solr2RPN module.
15:12 Fred good :)
15:10 fredericd Fred: that's it! (si je puis dire)
15:09 drulm Perhaps this could be a question for the upcoming meeting
15:09 drulm Q: is anyone talking about how moving to Solr in terms of having a z39.50 server? Is there a way to do this with Solr or will Zebra still need to be in there just for the z39.50, alternatives?
15:08 Fred something like : Search biblios ERROR 114 1 1+0 RPN @attrset Bib-1 @or @or @attr 1=12 @attr 4=1 @attr 6=3 @attr 9=32 @attr 2=102 820 @attr 1=12 @attr 4=1 @attr 9=26 @attr 2=102 820 @attr 1=12 @attr 5=1 @attr 4=6 @attr 9=26 @attr 2=102 820
15:07 drulm all is quiet on the open source front
15:06 Fred i ve been looking at how zebrasrv going live, i found some weird things
15:03 hdl Fred : you can test with CLI to see whether it answer basic queries.
15:02 hdl Fred : could come from some of the system preferences.
14:26 Fred is it possible it comes from koha more than zebra, and from search.pl specially?
14:22 Fred thanks, need to explore that file, and will come asap on koha-fr too (need to get used with IRC first)
14:16 hdl Fred and you can also come onto koha-fr if you want
14:15 hdl Fred koha-zebradaemon-output.log that's the one.
14:10 * owen wonders how many votes a "user friendly framework editor" needs to get before it appears out of thin air
14:00 Fred hmm got only koha-zebradaemon-output.log or koha-zebradaemon.err
13:58 fredericd or ends with .log...
13:57 Fred ok
13:57 fredericd not exactly... Go you Koha var/log directory. Find the file which contain zebra and ends with .err
13:54 Fred sorry i am always a bit lost with those log files, his name is koha-zebra-log.err?
13:47 Fred ok let me try to explore koha-zebra-log.err
13:44 kf hi owen
13:43 owen Hi #koha
13:40 fredericd Fred: yes, that's a good idea. You can try to do a tail -f <koha-zebra-log.err> file. See what happens when you do the request which fails
13:37 Fred yes i understand, could i see something in logs?
13:35 fredericd Fred: it can be tricky. For me, your issue comes from zebra config. But it's very difficult to say where exactly without access to your config
13:25 Fred yes already modified record.abs, biblionumber is on 090$9
13:19 nengard laurenthd I emailed you - i can email to the docs list, but i can't administer it anymore ... the password appears to have changed.
13:19 fredericd Fred: Have already modified you records.abs in the past? Where is your Koha biblionumber in your biblio record? In standard field?
13:14 Fred doesn t work
13:05 Fred ok
13:04 fredericd do it, reindex, and tell me if it works: then a patch must be send (will do it)
13:03 Fred ok, i am adding the 'w' then
13:02 fredericd the advanced search template must have changed
13:02 fredericd obviously
13:02 Fred ok, then it has changed since previous version?
13:01 fredericd Local-number,Local-number:n,Local-number:w
13:01 fredericd no
13:01 Fred Local-number,Local-number:n seems enough?
13:00 Fred ok let me check that
13:00 fredericd take a look at Local-number field. Verify that you have a 'w' index on it
12:59 Fred yes
12:59 fredericd do you know where is you biblio records.abs file?
12:59 kf hi fredericd
12:58 Fred Unimarc
12:58 fredericd hi kf
12:58 fredericd Fred: UNIMARC or MARC21?
12:57 Fred 3.02.00.004
12:55 kf Fred: what version of koha are you using?
12:52 Fred it seems to use sn,wrdl= x of what i can see
12:49 kf perhaps the form is creating the wrong search statement?
12:48 Fred I got a question about a weird way to act of advanced search : if i choose to request on Local number from adv search page (index 'sn') i've no answers...but if i type 'sn=x' Koha give me what i want. Any idea from where the problem could come from?
12:46 kf ... 16?
12:45 kf (12:17:08) slef: bbi 4h
12:45 kf laurenthd: he told me he will be back in 4 hours
12:44 laurenthd Would 20 UTC fit you ?
12:44 laurenthd slef: I will post a fix for that.
12:44 kf :)
12:44 kf yeah, got a bit confused too
12:44 laurenthd And I thought it was displaying UTC
12:44 laurenthd doodle was displaying Europe time.
12:43 laurenthd slef : Bloody hell.
11:45 kf kmkale: I am here
11:32 kmkale cool
11:30 kf let me finish this - 5 minutes
11:24 kmkale kf got a minute?
11:15 slef bbl
11:15 slef kf: either that or doodle is buggy. http://doodle.com/participation/calendar.html?pollId=2eh7spytgmydduca
11:13 kf slef: you sure tehy changed?
11:11 slef kf: I just screamed on-list.
11:09 kf hi Fred
11:00 Fred hello
10:59 kf silent today
09:55 kf what's the correct status of a bug after sign-off?
09:48 kf jcamins: around?
09:47 kf hi kmkale
09:02 kmkale hi kf
08:57 kf hi kmkale
08:57 kmkale hi all
08:53 kf :) and sun!
08:53 munin kf: The current temperature in Taegerwilen, Taegerwilen, Germany is 4.6�C (9:50 AM CET on December 07, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 97%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Windchill: 5.0�C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1002.9 hPa (Rising).
08:53 kf @wunder Konstanz
08:46 chris thanks :)
08:46 kf memorizing your statement now ;)
08:46 kf I will be there
08:45 chris so hopefully thats addressed
08:45 chris if anyone asks i think solr is cool, but as an option to use instead of zebra, not as a forced replacement
08:43 chris starts tomorrow
08:43 chris 11am tomorrow for me, which is why i wont be there
08:43 kf how was the training?
08:43 chris ah yep, that one is
08:43 kf chris: solr meeting - sorry
08:43 chris on the 8th
08:43 chris 10am UTC
08:42 chris no
08:41 kf the meeting is at 10pm today?
08:41 kf morning hdl
08:12 ibot hey, hdl
08:12 hdl hi
08:09 kf hi ivanc
08:09 ivanc guten morgen kf
08:09 ivanc good morning #koha
08:08 kf good morning #koha
06:37 cait hi #koha
03:49 * munin reloads and spins the chambers.
03:49 munin *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
03:49 Brooke @roulette
03:49 wasabi "System preferences admin - local-use preferences"
03:49 wasabi ahhh, click..
03:44 wasabi … i assume ive got a goofy db, that im testing with
03:41 * Oak hugs Brooke
03:40 wasabi does it work for other folk?
03:40 wasabi my 'add-new-syspref' button is missing on my 3-2rc
03:39 * Brooke waves at Oak
00:58 druthb yup.
00:57 chris done
00:52 chris yup and looking at the averages thats pretty unlikely
00:52 druthb Both would need to exceed their records.
00:51 druthb Based on highs and averages, there's just not much way for Siddle or Bollinger to have any hope of pulling this out.
00:50 druthb yah. now it's just for Swann or Anderson to seal the deal. This oughta be over by lunch.
00:49 chris hmm think so
00:49 druthb did they already have drinks?
00:48 druthb 77 runs down, and only one wicket left. tsk tsk.
00:47 druthb yup. :)
00:47 chris and england win
00:47 chris any minute now
00:46 druthb hi, chris! :)
00:46 chris hi druthb