Time Nick Message 01:26 chris_n oooo... perl crashes on large marc imports on win32 01:26 chris_n win32-- 01:34 robin try win64, it's twice as big! 01:48 chris_n interesting 01:48 chris_n the web import crashes, but bulkmarcimport.pl works fine and fast 01:49 * chris_n seems to remember complaints in general about large imports and the web importer 01:50 cfouts chris_n: web servers are often configured to accept a limited amount of incoming data. could be that the input to larger than that threshold and the backgrounder functionality isn't handling that properly 01:52 robin could be an apache timeout/request too large or something along those lines 01:52 robin err, what cfouts said :) 01:52 chris_n that could be; it pages dramatically and then it appears that the kernel cuts off its resources and the perl instance crashes 01:53 cfouts oh. that sounds like a different problem if it's thrashing 01:53 robin You should find the kernel talking to you in dmesg/syslog if it's OOMing 01:53 robin oh wait, win32 :( 01:53 chris_n heh 01:54 chris_n the web importer pages in the high millions, while the cli script pages in the low thousands 01:58 * chris_n suspects it may have to do with spawing off of the child process 02:11 chris_n yup, win32 perl attempts to emulate fork() with some limitations/threading dangers 02:26 Brooke :D 02:27 rhcl Brooke, why don't we see more of you around here? You add a little bit of, ah, "spice" to the channel. 02:28 Brooke he he 02:28 Brooke well, I have returned from fencing 02:28 Brooke so alas, more spice is in the future. 02:29 rhcl Like, fencing to keep the cattle in the pasture, or the sword fighting type? 02:29 Brooke swashbuckling yaarrr 02:29 Brooke brb apparently the ladies say I've blue no mah face. 02:30 Brooke back 02:36 Brooke @quote 02:36 munin Brooke: Error: "quote" is not a valid command. 02:36 Brooke @quote random 02:36 munin Brooke: Quote #20: "<wizzyrea> you will see no wedgie-ing from me" (added by jdavidb at 03:50 PM, July 31, 2009) 02:37 Brooke @quote 256 02:37 munin Brooke: Error: The "Quote" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "256" in it. Try "list Quote" to see the commands in the "Quote" plugin. 02:37 Brooke list quote 02:42 Brooke well pfft, this is emptier than Church. 02:47 chris_n well, here it is for posterity's sake: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=wip/koha-chris_n.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/Win32-wip 02:48 * chris_n puts it on the shelf for another X months and heads to bed 04:10 Brooke ahoy! 04:21 Brooke uh oh, adrenaline nearly gone, lactic acid not so much. 04:21 Brooke better stretch and sleep or Ima hurt like a wee prissy girl 05:03 kmkale hi all 05:04 kmkale chris around? 05:11 Amit heya kmkale 05:11 kmkale hi Amit 05:31 kmkale hi cait 05:32 cait hi kmkale :) 05:32 cait looking forward to fee receipt printing :) 05:36 kmkale :) It should go through now with fredericd's blessings 05:37 cait I wrote that down on my 'missing' list a long time ago 05:37 cait glad to see that it's now in koha :) 05:37 cait or will be 05:41 kmkale :) 06:07 pastebot "kmkale" at 59.181.126.113 pasted "Problem while doing on a new branch git rebase origin/master" (22 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/99 06:09 kmkale any idea if its a problem on my side or womething wrong with that patch? 06:55 cait you have a merge conflict 06:56 cait you can see the file where the problem is with git status - search for <<< in the file 07:00 chris http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/user-manual.html#resolving-a-merge 07:00 chris http://www.flickr.com/photos/ranginui/5180907836/ 07:01 chris its a hard life when you have to travel to places like that :) 07:03 kmkale cait chris I had nothing to do with this. I am innocent ;) 07:03 kmkale :)) 07:04 kmkale I was just trying to move on to some other work from the fee receipt one. so created a new branch and did a fet and rebase. Lo that paste was the result. 07:04 kmkale brb 07:04 chris how did you create your new branch? 07:05 kmkale git checkout -b vpmbarcodes origin 07:06 chris hmm if you did that, then a rebase should do nothing 07:07 kmkale didn't I say I was innocent? 07:07 chris there must be local changes on that branch 07:07 chris what i would do 07:08 chris is git fetch origin 07:08 kmkale on vpmbarcodes? nope. nothing touched yet. 07:08 chris git checkout -b new_branch_name origin/master 07:08 chris if you do the fetch first there is no need to rebase 07:09 chris because you are checking out a branch that is up to date 07:09 kmkale ok lets try that. Just for my understanding whats the diference between git fetch and git fetch origin? 07:10 chris git fetch origin is just the full way of saying it, but you may have more than one branch, if you git fetch it will fetch from the remote that branch is checking 07:10 chris s/checking/tracking/ 07:10 chris for eg i have catalyst, kc, fbc, biblibre etc 07:10 chris so i always add the name, so that i make sure im fetching from the right remote 07:11 kmkale oohh. Thanks chris. 07:11 cait hi chris :) nice photo! 07:11 kmkale I am pretty sure that I did it from where I got the 4440 branch yesterday. So could that be it? 07:12 kmkale that I was tracking the 4440 branch? 07:12 cait showing kohacon photos today - looks like a lot of fun and not much work - everybody seems to be smiling most of the time :) 07:12 cait ok, time to go - bye :) 07:17 chris sounds like you branched from 4440 yes, so that it is plausible 07:17 kmkale plausible. humm 07:23 kmkale brb 07:31 magnus ata marie, #koha 07:43 brendan hey magnus 07:44 magnus hi brendan! burning the midnight oil? 07:44 brendan heh - seems like I'm doing that a lot more lately 07:45 magnus a persons gotta do what a persons gotta do etc... 07:45 kmkale back. 07:45 kmkale Thanks fredericd 07:53 chris kmkale: think we will declare soon? or bat for the draw? 07:53 chris i think now mccullum has his 200, we will declare at 300 07:54 kmkale chris : That will be fun 07:54 chris with about 38 overs 07:54 kmkale I dont think India will go for the target though 07:56 chris yes, but thats a psychological win for nz 07:56 chris we set you a target, and you didnt back yourselves to get it :) 07:56 chris cricket is mind games :) 07:57 chris i thought we would have lost both tests by now 08:01 laurenthd hi 08:06 ivanc hi #koha 08:07 wasabi heya ivan 08:12 kmkale NZ have great fielding which has greatly helped in this series IMHO 08:13 magnus hiya hdl, ivanc, wasabi, kmkale & chris! 08:13 chris hiya magnus 08:14 kmkale hi magnus 08:14 ivanc hiya magnus 08:29 kmkale chris: why no declaration? 08:29 chris i think they came to same conclusion you did, india wouldnt go for it 08:30 chris so just batting practice now 09:23 hdl chris: C4::IssuingRules.pm is already commited in our circ branch. 09:23 hdl And Clay is doing some work on that. 09:24 hdl so this is duplicated effort. 09:27 chris yes, its not the first time and it wont be the last, if people dont look at what others are doing it will happen 09:29 chris and there is nothing i can do about it either, except look at them both once they have both been through QA and test them and pick one implementation 09:32 hdl yes chris. 09:32 hdl But clay dev is one patch. 09:32 hdl And our has to pass QA. 09:32 chris yes 09:32 hdl And our has been done much before. 09:32 chris so does his 09:33 chris that doesnt mean anything 09:33 chris everyone has to pass qa 09:33 chris theres stuff in harley that has been done much before 09:33 chris it still has to pass qa too 09:35 chris do you want me to guarantee your work will go in, without even looking at? 09:35 * chris is unsure what you want from e 09:39 hdl I want our work to be considered. that's all. 09:39 chris of course it is 09:39 chris everyones is 09:41 chris meanwhile, did you see http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/new/biblibre_reports and the feedback on it? 09:42 chris few little things to fix then that can be merged to master 09:43 chris http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-patches/2010-November/012870.html 09:46 hdl chris: ok But this was the very little branch 09:47 chris wow 09:47 chris i cant win 09:47 chris do you want me to put them all in tomorrow? .. there is a lot to look at 09:49 chris none of which (apart from the reports branch) are signed off 10:00 hdl chris ok. I got it. 10:06 wasabi http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/stuxnet-clues/ 10:08 wasabi … thats the craziest malware story yet 10:16 magnus hm, nuclear plants running windows - not reassuring... 10:17 hdl indeed. 10:19 wasabi yes, that part is even crazier than the virus! 10:25 kmkale bbl 10:48 magnus hiya irmaB 11:05 irmaB Hi magnus 11:05 irmaB How are U? 11:06 magnus i'm fine irmaB, starting to normalize after the jetlag... and you? 11:06 irmaB recovering slowwwly from acute lower back pain :( 11:07 irmaB lifted a cabin bag into the overhead locker and regretted it 2 seconds later 11:07 irmaB too heavy! 11:07 magnus aouch 11:07 irmaB ackward space to twist 11:08 magnus that was probably not a fun flight, then... 11:08 irmaB had accupuncture and seems to have helped 11:09 irmaB a lot happening on the Koha planet at the moment 11:10 irmaB did you see Savitra Sirohi's Koha book 11:10 magnus yeah 11:11 magnus koha seems like a fast moving target for a printed book... 11:12 irmaB back again... 11:14 kf hi #koha 11:14 magnus hiya kf 11:14 kf god morgen magnus 11:14 kf (correct?) 11:15 magnus kf: yep 11:17 kf cool :) 11:32 irmaB Hi kf ... Gehts gut? 11:34 kf ja Irma danke - und dir? 11:38 irmaB es geht mir langsam besser 11:41 irmaB Rückenschmerzen ..sehr langweilig und unangenehm 11:41 kf oh, das tut mir leid - ich hoffe es geht dir bald besser 11:42 irmaB but re Koha work ..slowly upgrading our clients to 3.2 and planning training 11:42 irmaB so that is fun :-) 11:42 irmaB danke kf 11:43 irmaB kf what are you working on? 11:43 kf koha presentation in berlin on friday - 45 minutes 11:43 kf longest so far - need more slides! 11:44 irmaB great 11:44 irmaB slides saying what? 11:44 irmaB perhaps I have some 11:45 irmaB 45 minutes is actually not that long 11:47 irmaB depending on the size of the audiance 11:47 kf hm a general talk about koha 11:47 kf and I have some cataloging questions from the attending libraries to prepare for 11:48 irmaB you can always show various Koha OPACS and point out the flexibility 11:49 kf yes, I have nice slides about the opac featues 11:49 kf but will show intranet too 11:50 irmaB re cataloguing ... maybe show them http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ 11:50 irmaB and then the MARC frameworks in Koha etc. 11:51 irmaB kf You will be fine... in fact.. I think you will be great!! 11:53 irmaB Time to say goodnight :) Goodluck kf 11:53 magnus so do i - on a mission to bring the joy of koha to germany... ;-) 11:53 magnus good night irmaB - see ya! 11:54 irmaB see ya Magnus and goodluck for your mission too! 12:36 gmcharlt good morning 12:56 kf hi gmcharlt 12:56 gmcharlt hi kf 12:56 gmcharlt when's your presentation? 12:57 kf ah on friday 12:58 kf it's a small group looking at various systems 13:03 druthb howdy, #koha. 13:05 jwagner Morning. 13:17 kmkale good evening 13:17 kmkale hi owen 13:17 owen Hi 13:28 kf hi owen, druthb and jwagner 13:34 jwagner Guten tag, kf 13:37 jwagner cfouts, what are you doing up so early? 13:37 * druthb boggles. 13:37 cfouts can't sleep... clowns will eat me. 13:38 * druthb bursts into giggles. 13:38 * jwagner wonders what cfouts has been eating/drinking/smoking lately.... 13:44 kmkale hi druthb kf jwagner 13:44 druthb hi, kmkale. :) 13:45 kf cfouts: I am scared of clowns too 13:45 * kf hands cfouts some hot chocolate 13:45 jwagner hi kmkale 13:45 cfouts ever since "Poltergeist"... 13:48 * jwagner hands cfouts a teddy bear 14:10 jwagner Bonjour hdl 14:11 hdl hi jwagner 14:12 kf hi hdl 14:12 kf new nick? 14:23 hdl kf: it is mibbit. 14:55 chris_n kf: about? 14:56 kf chris_n: wanted to write the same to you right now 14:56 kf chris_n: that's the possibility I haven't tested... *sighs* 14:56 chris_n can you do some testing on my latest remarks on bug 5379? 14:56 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5379 critical, PATCH-Sent, ---, cnighswonger, ASSIGNED, import_borrowers.pl fails with db insert/update errors 14:57 chris_n I think the problem is the poorly worded help text 14:57 chris_n but want to be sure what I replace it with does, indeed, work :-) 14:58 kf I can do tomorrow, is that ok? 14:58 kf and who invents somthing like that? it looks a bit scary 14:58 kf a better worded help is really needed 15:02 kf chris_n: what happens if you want to use single quotes? does that work too? 15:04 chris_n the RFC does speak to single quotes 15:04 kf forgot my github passwort - again :( 15:05 kf chris_n: which RFC are we talking about? 15:06 chris_n if you do '"foo","bar","foobar"' things break 15:06 chris_n RFC-4180 15:06 kf do you have a link? 15:07 chris_n http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4180.txt 15:08 chris_n so I think we must support the standard and clarify the help to use examples which follow 15:09 chris_n kf: section 2 number 7 of the above link deals with double quotes 15:09 kf standard++ 15:09 kf ok, I support you in supporting the standard ;) 15:12 * chris_n feels better already :) 15:13 kf chris_n: but we need a good example on the page! 15:14 chris_n it appears that single quotes fail to cause the embedded commas to be properly escaped 15:14 chris_n so I think they are best left unused in this context 15:15 chris_n kf: probably having the sample csv really be a sample (ie. having a row or two of valid data) would help as well 15:15 kf i think the sample csv is build with a script - we have no sample patron attributes 15:16 * chris_n will submit a follow-up patch later 15:17 chris_n wizzyrea: is a wizzy_gon a new type of n-gon? 15:18 owen wizzyrea: Got your msg about the lost/damaged status but can't reproduce it 15:18 wizzyrea it has eleventy-billion sides 15:18 wizzyrea hmm 15:19 wizzyrea odd. it's an upgrade db. do you have to have an empty authorized value? 15:19 wizzyrea like, a value with no value? 15:19 * wizzyrea tries that 15:19 owen I wouldn't think so 15:19 owen Oh, spoke too soon 15:20 owen Damaged, authorized value 0, description empty 15:20 tcohen Has anyone seen this error: http://cea.biblio.unc.edu.ar/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=santa+mar%C3%ADa 15:21 tcohen look for "Colección" 15:21 wizzyrea AHA 15:21 wizzyrea this is what I had to do: http://screencast.com/t/vK09c1XKgDL 15:22 owen You had to create a completely blank entry? 15:22 wizzyrea to have it show blanks instead of the 1st one in the list, yea 15:23 wizzyrea perhaps I have done it wrong 15:23 owen tcohen: I've heard of that bug before tcohen, but I've not been able to reproduce it 15:24 owen tcohen: Bug 5147 15:24 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5147 minor, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, If a title has double quotes, item details not displayed correctly 15:25 wizzyrea owen: in yours it shows the currently set value in those drop downs? 15:25 owen Sorry tcohen that isn't right is it? 15:25 owen wizzyrea: Yes 15:25 wizzyrea hmm, in mine it doesn't 15:25 wizzyrea even if you set it, it defaults to the first in the list 15:26 wizzyrea must be something local, thanks for checking 15:27 tcohen oewn: i'm checking the marc for that biblio and cannot find double quotes 15:30 tcohen s/oewn/owen/ 15:30 owen tcohen: Looks like it might be the double quotes in the publisher name 15:32 tcohen owen, is this a bug or marc21 prohibits double quotes there? 15:33 owen A bug. I'm trying to reproduce it 15:38 kf *sighs* 15:38 kf why can't I push to my public repo? 15:38 kf :( 15:38 owen *sighs* 15:38 owen why can't I reproduce tcohen's bug? 15:38 owen :( 15:39 kf and it's not even monday! 15:41 kf chris_n: about the state address - we don't have that, but added some fields in the past - I think i could do it if you want it 15:41 kf state in address fields.. 15:42 owen kf: Then can you write a script which will split the state info out of our city field and automatically populate the new field? :) 15:42 kf nope 15:43 kf owen: sorry... but I think that will vary for a lot of people 15:44 kf not sure I can do it... hm. but it should only be a sql command right? 15:45 * chris_n thinks it might be possible with a sql statement or two 15:45 owen tcohen: I'd be curious if removing the quotes from the publisher name fixed the problem 15:46 gmcharlt splitting on a comma would handle it for US addresses (not counting inconsistently entered data, of course) 15:46 chris_n kf: that would be a nice addition; lots of other software consumes addresses in this format 15:46 owen Although even if I copy that publisher data into one of my records I can't reproduce the problem 15:47 owen Ah wait, now I can 15:47 kf gmcharlt: yeah, I think that's why I don't want to update it automatically - I fear people are not consistent 15:48 kf don't want to mess with their data 15:49 gmcharlt kf: the upgrade could be made optional, then, by having it handled by a separate script that the library could choose to run or not 15:49 kf hm ok 15:50 kf I am volunteering because I did something similar before - so I think I can handle it 15:50 kf but actually we (Germany) doesn't really need it 15:50 kf we don't have the state in the address 15:53 owen Ooh, sneaky 15:54 owen You can have double quotes in your publisher name *only if* you also have something in 260c 15:56 owen It's the COinS / OpenURL data messing up the markup 15:58 jwagner schsuter is having an identity crisis? 15:58 schsuter yes and typing issues. 15:58 owen Do not anger bizzaro-schsuter 15:58 * jwagner knows that feeling.... 16:00 kf now new with a capital S :) 16:01 * kf still can't push to her repo 16:01 owen Zotero doesn't like those quotes in the publisher name either 16:14 owen Bug 5412 16:14 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5412 normal, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, Double quotes in publisher name, no date cause search results links to break 16:18 * kf CAN push to her repo now :) 16:19 wizzyrea_ yay! 16:23 kf magnus++ 16:23 magnus yay! 16:41 tcohen owen, i'll follow this bug, is there a coins specification? 16:42 owen I assume so, but I don't know where offhand 16:42 gmcharlt tcohen: http://ocoins.info/ 16:52 kf ok, time to go - bbl! :) 16:52 jcamins_a tcohen++ # I didn't read the scrollback, but maybe he's going to fix the COiNS support? 16:52 owen See Bug 5412 jcamins 16:53 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5412 normal, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, Double quotes in publisher name, no date cause search results links to break 16:53 owen What else is broken about COiNS? 16:54 jcamins There's a laconic note "MARC21 needs some improve." 16:55 gmcharlt that's helpful 16:55 jcamins I think they're referring specifically to the fact that LDR and 008 are completely ignored, and the output is always described as a "book." 16:56 jcamins Also, I'm pretty sure the coins coding is non-standard compliant. 16:57 jcamins Specifically, the title attribute. 16:57 jcamins Unfortunately, the standard made no sense at all, and Zotero doesn't mind, so I gave up. 16:58 owen What's wrong with the title attribute? 16:58 jcamins (I noticed the problem when using the resulting coins with a link resolver) 16:58 jcamins I think it's the wrong one. 16:58 jcamins coins has a bunch. 16:59 jcamins (which seems to me like a design flaw, but what do I know? 17:01 jcamins The links may work with SFX- I tested with Umlaut, and it was a while ago. 17:01 rhcl @seen sekjal 17:01 munin rhcl: sekjal was last seen in #koha 22 hours, 6 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: * sekjal makes a mental connection: so that's where that error originates from! 17:08 chris_n bbiab 17:25 tcohen jcamins: koha's coins support flaws are documented in a bug? 17:26 tcohen maybe we can start a rewrite or bugfix 17:28 jcamins tcohen: I have demo patches attached to bug 4366, but they're not really commitable. 17:28 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4366 normal, P5, ---, camins, ASSIGNED, COinS support for MARC21 17:29 jcamins Everything's hard-coded. :( 17:30 jcamins I'd like to get back to that, but who knows when I'll have time. 17:30 jcamins Especially since I really didn't understand the coins specification. 17:31 tcohen jcamins: i'll give it a try and report back 17:31 tcohen thanks for the data 17:38 thd tcohen: Even the bugs* for OpenURL COinS support are an incomplete report. 17:39 jcamins thd: yeah, as I said, I gave up on understanding the standard at some point. 17:40 thd jcamins: Was it the OpenURL standard which gave you trouble or the OpenURL COinS standard for embedding OpenURL in web pages? 17:41 jcamins thd: the OpenURL 1.0 Context Object. 17:42 cait jo 17:42 cait hi #koha 17:43 thd jcamins: Do you mean the nature of general context objects as distinct from specific bibliographic references? 17:44 jcamins thd: no, I specifically had trouble figuring out what data went where. 17:45 gmcharlt jcamins: jrochkind on #code4lib might be a good person to talk to about OpenURL's data model 17:45 thd jcamins: Do you mean what data should goes into particular OpenURL attributes? 17:46 thd jcamins: I could answer all your questions as I worked on OpenURL COinS and have some unpublished work on OpenURL. 17:47 thd jcamins: I also investigated the Koha attempt at an implementation and had been preparing to use it as an example of a deficiency in the Koha development process. 17:48 thd jcamins: I did not go forward with my example because adversarial relations between LibLime and PTFS came to dominate all my attention. 17:50 cait hi brooke 17:50 Brooke howdy 17:51 thd jcamins: Bug #3092 was my start at what is wrong with Koha's OpenURL COinS effort. 17:51 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3092 normal, P1, ---, frederic, NEW, Data values storage and use 100 bug meta-bug 17:52 jcamins thd: sorry for the pause, I was on the phone. 17:53 thd jcamins: Values had to first be appropriately normalised for inclusion in OpenURL. 17:53 jcamins Yes, my initial problem was that I'm not entirely sure there's a clear mapping of MARC field-COinS field 17:54 rhcl Brooke is back...... 17:54 wizzyrea_ she's nice 17:54 wizzyrea_ :D 17:54 * wizzyrea_ waves to Brooke 17:54 jcamins thd: please ignore my random tenses. 17:54 jcamins I'm apparently a bit distracted. 17:54 * Brooke blushes 17:55 thd jcamins: Exactly, that is what bug #3092 is all about, whether the data is stored in MARC or in Koha SQL columns, the data is not normalised correctly for any specific purpose. 17:55 rhcl Yesterday is was us that was blushing 17:55 gmcharlt thd: since there's no one true normalization for all specific purposes, normalization needs to happen at the edges and interfaces 17:56 gmcharlt I grant that it could be done a lot more systematically 17:57 thd gmcharlt: In bug #3092 I suggest storing data in various forms normalised for various purposes. 17:57 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3092 normal, P1, ---, frederic, NEW, Data values storage and use 100 bug meta-bug 17:58 thd gmcharlt: I suggest that the degree of normalisation needed for so many different purposes would make too much of a real time demand upon the CPU if all needed normalisation would be done for every possible feature. 17:58 * jcamins wanders off to eat lunch, muttering something about OpenURL binding descriptions 17:59 gmcharlt thd: the normalization wouldn't have to be done all at once for all possibly purposes 18:00 thd gmcharlt: That depends on the number of simultaneous users. Given enough simultaneous users everything would be requested at once. 18:00 gmcharlt thd: I don't think that's a realistic view of system load 18:00 gmcharlt obviously better caching might be called for 18:01 thd gmcharlt: I want Koha to be able to work on a world OPAC scale. 18:02 thd A world OPAC could make good use of OpenURL. 18:04 thd Open Library is partly intended as a world OPAC in a very modest way. 18:04 * Brooke drools at the thought of Open Library 18:06 thd Brooke: Open Library is a real project of the Internet Archive but which is much less inspiring on close examination of the implementation. 18:06 wizzyrea_ maybe we should be encouraging instead of trying to replace them. 18:06 Brooke mmm. think they are not quite done laying solid foundations. 18:07 thd wizzyrea: I have been and am encouraging them. 18:07 Brooke I'd expect them to offer more meaningful services in future than OCLC if things shake out correctly 18:07 wizzyrea_ ^^ what she said 18:09 thd Brooke: They are not aimed at competing with OCLC except for interlibrary loan facilitation of electronic copies perhaps. 18:09 Brooke change your footing from an open source advocate to an OCLC wonk and give me the same answer. 18:10 thd Brooke: Ok, you are correct. OCLC sees any aggregation of bibliographic records, however poor the data model, as a threat to their monopoly. 18:11 jcamins To be fair, OCLC has a point. 18:11 * Brooke is a pessimist after many years of optimism. 18:11 jcamins [off] when your monopoly is based on being the only game in town, any new game is a threat 18:12 thd jcamins: The treat which OCLC has to fear from Open Library is a threat from raw record redistribution. 18:13 thd jcamins: You can download all the originating source records used to create Open Library records from the Internet Archive. 18:14 Brooke ahoy druthb 18:14 druthb hi. 18:16 thd jcamins: Thankfully, OCLCs members compelled them to come up with a half reasonable record reuse policy after their previous attempt. 18:19 gmcharlt thd: I think that's an optimistic reading of what happened 18:22 thd gmcharlt: I do prefer to be optimistic. 18:23 thd gmcharlt: I have never met anyone from OCLC whom I did not like on a personal basis when I met the person with only one exception. 18:24 * owen has learned that liking someone on a personal basis is unrelated to their company's behavior 18:25 jcamins thd: I have met personally the former CEO of a company which is generally reviled by everyone, including myself. I liked him just fine, but I still hope the company he helped build collapses in on itself. 18:25 Brooke Tayloristic company behaviour is often unrelated to individual behaviour for obvious reasons. 18:27 thd Brooke: I think that the scary people at OCLC mostly work in the legal department, although, I have a good rapport with lawyers in general. I have never met any OCLC lawyers. 18:28 * jcamins thinks longingly about making a comment to do with daylight and thd not looking at the ceiling when he was given a tour... 18:29 thd jcamins: I have never been to Ohio. I only met people from OCLC at conferences, never in their lair. 18:29 Brooke lol @ lair. 18:30 jcamins Ah, that explains it. :) 18:34 owen Must be something about Ohio 18:34 * wizzyrea_ remembers that owen had a plan to take over the world 18:34 * owen wonders where he left that 18:35 * Brooke chastises owen again for not collaborating with Rosalie and JoAnn on the same. 18:36 Brooke by missing conference, you missed poor Lee seated between those two. 18:36 thd jcamins: I have even met Karen Calhoon, and spoken with her extensively. I was prepared to regard her as champion of everything wrong but she came across as misguided but willing to be accommodating. 18:39 thd Whatever, the problems with OCLC, the money which they obtain from users pays for a great research department. Microsoft also does great research with their loot. 18:41 * Brooke grins impishly. 18:41 * jcamins had never considered the possibility that Brooke's grins were not impish 18:41 * Brooke cackles. 18:42 Brooke just remember that you've 2 Kuia protecting ye. It'll be fine. 18:42 thd OCLC research has some real heros for the future of library science. We need to be alert so that OCLC does not control that future. 18:44 Brooke bah 18:45 Brooke control as it relates to the arrow of time would seem to be less centralised, not more. 18:45 thd jcamins: On the subject of OpenURL Koha is missing a required attribute, has strings such as p. for pages included in numberic attributes, etc. 18:46 thd Brooke: I hope that times' arrow and progress have a general alignment but that is not a necessary condition of the world. 18:46 Brooke didn't say progres.s 18:47 thd I know that you did not. 18:47 Brooke just clarifying that so I needn't disagree with meself. 18:48 thd Brooke: I substituted 'progress' for your use of 'less centralised'. I think of decentralisation as good progress. 18:51 Brooke back to the salt mines. 19:01 chris morning 19:01 druthb hi, chris. :) 19:02 thd jcamins: s/attributes/keys/ for a closer match to OpenURL terminology above. 19:04 thd jcamins: Some of the OpenURL standards documents have some minor terminological inconsistencies which does not make them easier to read :) 19:17 wizzyrea how would I go about finding the patch for this bug? 19:17 wizzyrea http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3520 19:17 munin 04Bug 3520: blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, crash when adding or editing item record 19:18 chris do a google 19:18 wizzyrea update to 3.0.4 I guess 19:18 chris koha bug 3250 19:18 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3250 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, RESOLVED FIXED, Overdues report shows unique ID instead of location name 19:18 chris third link should be the patch 19:18 chris and again on the 6th :) 19:18 chris http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-patches/2009-August/009833.html 19:18 chris google rules 19:19 wizzyrea ok that last one is helpful. :) 19:19 wizzyrea I did teh googlez… but I guess I didn't look for the right thing 19:19 gmcharlt wizzyrea: alternatively 19:19 wizzyrea :( sickie google fu fail. 19:20 gmcharlt git log and look for the patch 19:20 gmcharlt then git show 7f7dfa0a1 19:20 wizzyrea aha 19:20 wizzyrea that is also helpful, thanks 19:41 wizzyrea woot the patch fixed it 19:41 * wizzyrea does a dance 19:41 gmcharlt wizzyrea: old version? 19:43 chris_n is anyone using SMS for notices? 19:45 chris not me 19:46 owen Is there a special name for Perl's "@_" variable? 19:47 wizzyrea yep, very 19:47 wizzyrea and almost retired anyway 19:47 chris hdl: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/new/awaiting_qa/biblibre_acquisitions one done 19:48 chris_n g'evening hdl 19:48 chris_n g'morning chris 19:50 wizzyrea does the functionality exist in koha to alert an administrator about "orphaned" reserves? An example of this would be a bib where the last item available for reserve is marked missing, lost, or damaged, and the people on the list won't get their holds filled 19:54 wizzyrea never mind, I consulted the wiki and found a report that's pretty close to that 19:54 hdl good evening all 19:54 hdl chris: Don't work on authorities now. 19:54 hdl I will push one patch on that right away 19:55 jcamins They're evil and will shorten your lifespan! 19:55 chris cool 19:55 chris_n ^^what he said 19:55 chris_n well, what jcamins said 19:55 chris im doing the opac now 19:56 hdl ok thanks. 19:57 hdl chris where can I find the reason why 3.0.x is not sunny ? 19:58 hdl (on hudson) 19:58 chris i noticed that add limits to search history pulls in a whole pile of database changes, not just the limiting to search history one, so fixing that as i go 19:58 chris ahh here 19:59 chris http://bugs.koha-community.org:8080/job/Koha_3.0.x/lastBuild/console 20:06 chris http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/new/awaiting_qa/biblibre_opac 20:07 chris done, and its now only doing the 2 database updates it needs to 20:07 chris so should be easier to test and more likely to be able to be merged 20:08 hdl chris+++++ 20:08 hdl chris++ 20:08 owen chris does the Koha/kete integration use AJAX to display the kete results sidebar? 20:08 chris yes 20:09 chris pulls them into a div 20:09 owen But the div is coded into the template eh? 20:09 chris yup 20:10 owen Did you experiment with adding the div via js as well? 20:10 chris nope, i didnt, but no reason why you couldnt do that 20:11 chris i just found it easier to have a place to pop it in 20:11 owen I'm asking because Stephen and I are talking about ways to integrate results from the Ohio Web Library into Koha search results 20:11 chris ahh 20:11 chris can you get search results as an rss feed? 20:11 hdl chris : Can't locate override_context_prefs.pm in @INC 20:11 chris if so, the code for kete will just work 20:12 hdl (in the console.) 20:12 chris if you change the base url 20:12 chris hdl: that would do it 20:12 owen Oh, interesting 20:12 hdl Is there a problem with the test script ? 20:13 chris owen: i started changing it it, to opac-externalsearch.pl and changing the syspref so you could just plug in anything 20:13 chris opac-externalsearch.pl takes your rss, and makes it into JSON 20:13 chris then the js does stuff with it 20:14 chris calling a local script which then fetches the data, gets round all the anti XSS script measures most browsers have now 20:14 chris hdl: yes, could well be, ill try to have a look today 20:14 chris its probably an ENV variable missing 20:14 chris ill have a quick look now 20:14 hdl thanks chris. 20:16 hdl we decided to use a hudson bot too. 20:16 hdl We shall implement that soon. 20:16 owen SMFPL is doing a different kind of Ohio Web Library integration, wherein OWL scrapes the Koha search results screen and integrates the results into its own search results: http://www.smfpl.org/library/super_search?additional=66.213.124.205:2100/biblios&submit=Search&search=maori 20:16 hdl We will also make some use case for C4::Search.pm and some tests. 20:17 hdl I saw there were very little in the test suite. 20:17 * owen finds the output of that search much more confusing than what he sees on HLT's site 20:17 chris hdl: excellent :) 20:18 hdl We will ask for contribution when we have the meeting around solr 20:18 hdl We are trying to build some from our tests and experience 20:18 hdl We also Worked out a Z3950::SimpleServer... 20:18 chris hdl: i cant fidn that file? 20:18 hdl (to be built upon solr) 20:19 chris Auth.t has use override_context_prefs; 20:19 chris but i cant find that file? 20:19 hdl shoot. 20:19 chris t/db_dependent/Auth.t 20:21 hdl maybe some backport from master to 3.0 20:21 chris yeah, sounds likely 20:21 hdl funny it just appeared now. 20:22 chris we might not have been running the db_dependent tests before 20:25 * chris_n gives up on SMS and just uses email2txt 20:26 hdl chris: what about running tests on all the branches awaiting_qa ? 20:27 hdl would maybe provide some basic tests for qa at least. 20:28 chris i run the sweet before i push the branch 20:28 chris suite too 20:28 chris :) 20:28 hdl I understood 20:28 hdl nice. 20:28 chris but yep, wouldnt hurt 20:28 chris bugs is a fairly smallish box though 20:28 gmcharlt hdl: not a bad idea to have it done automatically, but I think would require more server horsepower 20:28 chris i might have to pay linode for more disk if i run more 20:28 gmcharlt that would be a case where some distribution would help 20:28 chris what gmcharlt said :) 20:29 hdl we may try and mutualise some diskspace on that. 20:29 hdl ... I never understood why blib was so important. 20:30 hdl (It takes so much space....) 20:31 hdl as soon as our hudson is up, i'll send a message. 20:31 gmcharlt hdl: blib is mostly an artifact of how the installer was implemented as an application of EU::MM, but isn't valuable per se 20:32 chris hdl: excellent 20:32 hdl sure... it just takes space and time. ;) 20:33 hdl I have to get on an unfriendly VPN... And then go to bed.. 20:33 hdl See you folks. 20:33 chris i really like linode 20:33 chris if you ever are looking for a new provider 20:45 hdl anyone aware of a good tcp2com FOSS project ? 20:46 hdl I have been using com0com... But command line... and not much windows user friendly 20:57 hdl found 2 other for record : 20:58 hdl delicious.com/laurenthdl/com0com 21:04 hdl Good night. 21:04 chris night hdl 21:22 chris wb darling :) 21:22 trea o/ 21:22 wizzyrea yay darling! 21:23 darling howdy howdy howdy 21:24 darling did I miss anything? 21:27 chris hmm 21:27 chris http://koha-releasemanagement.branchable.com/ <-- that 21:27 wizzyrea there was the epic RFC discussion. 21:27 wizzyrea quite a bit of talk about solr 21:29 chris someone suggested rewriting all of koha in java 21:29 chris (happens usually once a year) 21:29 wizzyrea oh yea, that was a good one 21:30 rhcl I did not--I wanted Ada! 21:31 gmcharlt Forth! 21:31 cfouts ML 21:31 rhcl Lisp is better than Forth 21:32 rhcl APL is pretty good too. 21:32 rhcl APL1 21:32 gmcharlt ((((really?))) 21:32 rhcl PL1 (I'll get it right this time) 21:33 wizzyrea alright, anybody have a moment for a probably elementary report question? 21:33 chris they are all crap compared to awesomechrisc+091LPxl 21:33 chris i just rewrote the whole world in it 21:33 chris right now! 21:33 trea sweet 21:34 wizzyrea I'm trying to get a report that shows the persons who hold reserves on bibs that only have items that are marked lost, withdrawn, or damaged (lol chris) 21:34 chris with more ponies 21:35 wizzyrea (abandoned holds) 21:36 wizzyrea what I have shows the person who has an abandoned reserve item checked out, I want to know who has the reserve 21:37 chris who placed the reserve? 21:38 chris can you paste what you have? 21:38 wizzyrea yep, so you can contact them to say "sorry, this item isn't available anymore" 21:38 wizzyrea yep 21:39 pastebot "wizzyrea" at 24.124.17.146 pasted "orphaned hold report" (12 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/100 21:40 cait :) 21:43 chris you dont care if its out or not? just who placed it? 21:43 wizzyrea right 21:44 chris k 21:44 chris 2 secs 21:45 tcohen 1 question: do you think it'd be awful to generate a $record->htmlized_subfield method for biblios? 21:46 chris itd be awful if i had to do it 21:46 tcohen such that " is substituted by " and ' by ' 21:47 chris hmm, i think its better to have the template do it 21:47 chris with escape="HTML" 21:47 tcohen to get coins to work sth like that needs to be done 21:47 chris for html::template 21:47 chris and | h 21:47 tcohen yes 21:47 chris for template::toolkit 21:48 tcohen the thing is that the problem is in Biblio.pm 21:48 tcohen specifically in GetCOinSBiblio 21:48 tcohen when we "construct" the coins span 21:49 pastebot "chris" at 202.78.240.7 pasted "SELECT borrowers.cardnumber, b" (11 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/101 21:49 chris that *might* work 21:49 tcohen we cannot be sure the marc fields don't have single or double quotes 21:49 wizzyrea *trying&* 21:50 wizzyrea (plz don't be like my mother and say "yes, you are") 21:50 chris right, have you looked at C4::Scrubber 21:50 * wizzyrea sobs 21:50 chris which uses HTML::Scrubber 21:50 chris using that might be what you want to do 21:51 wizzyrea oooh 21:51 * wizzyrea looks at what you did thar 21:52 wizzyrea MEH! I tried that (I thought) and it didn't work. At the very least I was on the right path several times. 21:52 Brooke you just had issues ;) 21:53 wizzyrea ba dum bum 21:53 tcohen wizzyrea: what r u talking abouT 21:53 Brooke SQL script to enable phoning a Patron and telling em how hosed they are for procrastination 21:54 robin Brooke: next step is an SQL script that'll go around to their house with a few heavies and discourage them from being late again. 21:55 Brooke >:) 21:55 Brooke never did by my Library jacket... http://www.unshelved.com/store/Outerwear/LibraryRaid 21:56 robin Brooke: have you ever watched "Castle"? 21:56 Brooke don't believe so 21:56 tcohen chris: it looks like scrubber sanitizes tags and its attributes 21:56 * Brooke lives under a rock with only rats for company. 21:58 tcohen and i'm not sure it can resolve our coins issue 21:59 tcohen damn, yakuake core dumped 21:59 tcohen lost my ssh session 21:59 tcohen damn1 21:59 robin Brooke: it's about a crime writer who follows police around to get ideas. Anyway, at one point he gets a bulletproof vest made that says "WRITER" 21:59 wizzyrea tcohen: i am talking about a script that shows who has holds on items where their hold will never be filled because the item is lost, damaged, or withdrawn 21:59 wizzyrea er 21:59 wizzyrea a report 22:03 chris you should make it a script 22:06 wizzyrea to what, run on a cron? 22:06 chris yeah 22:06 wizzyrea capital idea 22:09 Brooke that's why he gets the big bucks 22:09 wizzyrea true dat 22:09 chris i think you misunderstand how the economy works 22:09 chris its the people with the retarded ideas that get the big bucks 22:09 wizzyrea revision: this is why chris has the most social capital of any of us ;) 22:10 cait chris: ture 22:10 cait true 22:12 * Brooke waves to eric 22:13 robin chris: I think we should be powering all this with the use of goats. Can I get the big bucks now? 22:13 chris heh 22:14 * Brooke resents being called a goat. 22:14 robin you started it! you just called yourself one! 22:14 Brooke look, just because I have hooves, a tail, and some horns... 22:15 wizzyrea that seems a bit synonymous with the common description of a demon as well 22:15 robin wizzyrea: no, the cron job is better than the daemon at the moment :) 22:15 darling goats! 22:16 wizzyrea robin: …lol 22:16 * wizzyrea remembers that "bonk" means something totally different here, refrains from using it 22:16 robin haha 22:26 wizzyrea ah I just love libre office. The fact that you can paste a delimited clipboard makes me so. very. happy. 22:32 Brooke hi 22:34 sekjal hi everyone! 22:35 Brooke howdy 22:35 sekjal just showing the awesomeness of the Koha community and our chat 22:35 sekjal wehoo 22:35 wizzyrea hey sekjal :) 22:35 wizzyrea so that report to show who has abandoned holds is pretty great 22:35 sekjal time to go 22:36 wizzyrea it even catches item level holds that are on lost items 22:36 chris yay 22:36 wizzyrea superawesome 23:48 owen Hey, I was just trying to check out the biblibre_opac qa branch and I'm having trouble with the updatedatabase 23:48 owen "We are upgrading from Koha 3.01.00.145 to 3.03.00.XXX 23:49 gmcharlt owen: since the database version can't be set precisely for a QA branch, you'll have to adjust updatabase.pl and kohaversion.pl when you test 23:49 gmcharlt making a backup of your test database beforehand would be a good idea, too 23:49 owen Okay, I didn't know that 23:50 gmcharlt first time, really, that we've been dealing with a large number of topic branches each of which can have database updates on them 23:51 owen Is the version number I'm upgrading to arbitrary? 23:59 * owen increments the last recorded version number in updatedatabase.pl