Time Nick Message 00:00 chris yeah, you guys are doing fine 00:00 chris the phone hasnt even rung! 00:00 paul yet! - just composing a long email as we speak 00:01 paul gotta go, catch you later 00:01 chris spotya later 00:02 chris paul and 2 of his librarians are coming to kohacon 00:07 slef cool 00:13 chris i do like brians comment on nicoles blog 00:41 ebegin I'm trying to figure out what the autorised value is used for on when we edit a MARC Field (not a subfield). 00:42 ebegin The screen displays: if you select a value here, the indicators will be limited to the authorized value list 00:43 ebegin But selecting an autorised value from the list doesn't change anythink in my cataloging screen... ?! 01:26 darling history page probably wants an update - http://koha-community.org/about/history/ 01:26 darling for the 3.2rc 01:27 darling good afternoon koha peeps 01:28 robin darling: no, I think the history page ends at the perfect location. On a high note :) 01:32 yhager Has anybody seen wajasu around here recently? I found him on the irc logs talking about an arch package for koha - and I would like to contact him on this 01:32 robin @seen wajasu 01:32 munin robin: wajasu was last seen in #koha 6 days, 21 hours, 22 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <wajasu> would be nice to have the utf8 label thing solved. my librarian edits records to not have diacritics and prints a lebel then edits things back. slow and errorprone workaround. 01:33 yhager robin: cool, thanks. Can munin pass messages when he arrives? (like tell wajasu bla bla bla) 01:33 robin @later tell yhager sure can 01:33 munin robin: The operation succeeded. 01:34 yhager robin: thx 01:34 yhager heh, it works 01:34 robin :) 01:34 yhager @later tell wajasu I am working on an AUR package for koha, and all the perl deps. Let me know if you want to cooperate. yhager at yhager dot com 01:34 munin yhager: The operation succeeded. 01:35 robin yhager: I do the debian packages, if that's useful for anything. 01:36 robin you might be able to reuse/modify as needed the scripts that are in there. 01:45 yhager robin: most of the work is getting those perl deps packaged. I could use the deb scripts for the other parts though. link? 01:46 robin yhager: they're all in the debian/ subdir in git. 01:59 yhager robin: but this should be an interactive step, shouldn't it? or do you just take the defaults (I am sorry, dunno how to read deb packaging scripts) 02:00 robin It's debian magic, I'm not completely sure what it's doing on the inside. I think it probably is telling the makefile to be non-interactive. 02:03 yhager robin: ok, so it probably just accepts the defaults. I was just wondering what is the "right" way to do this 02:04 robin yeah, I think the defaults are all appropriate, and if you need something changed, you can do it as part of the package. 02:09 yhager robin: great, thx 02:24 darling yhager, by the way - pocket sized arm style koha <- very slick 02:24 darling looking forward to that 02:52 Amit heya chris 03:02 robin from another IRC channel: 03:02 robin <sneakums> Dumont: ptfs is <reply>http://blog.liw.fi/posts/in-defense-of-nicole/ 03:02 robin (where Dumont is an infobot) 03:02 robin word seems to be getting around :) 03:02 chris yup 05:46 CGI491 hello it's me again eugene from the Philippines just installed koha on windows please help me connect from a remote computer using the admin interface i was able to connect but only the opac interface. thanks 05:46 CGI491 hello it's me again eugene from the Philippines just installed koha on windows please help me connect from a remote computer using the admin interface i was able to connect but only the opac interface. thanks 06:13 CGI966 how do i remotely connect to the admin interface of koha on windows? 06:14 CGI966 how do i remotely connect to the admin interface of koha on windows? 06:44 chris heh 06:47 chris nicole is loved in africa :) 06:48 larsw on the whole planet! 06:48 chris :) 06:48 larsw until FTL is invented we don't know if she's loved in other solar systems, though, but I would not bet against it 06:48 paul_p hello world 06:48 chris did you see this larsw http://www.news.software.coop/blog-action-and-blog-action-day/1021/ 06:48 paul_p chris & larsw mainly ;-) 06:48 chris heya paul_p 06:48 larsw I am entirely sure the national library of aldebaraan is using Koha... 06:48 chris hehe 06:49 larsw hi, paul_p 06:49 larsw chris, nope, hadn't seen that 06:50 paul_p larsw, really ? so that's true. Because I know for sure that the KRL (Klingon Research Library) uses Koha too... 06:50 paul_p s/that's true/that's two/ 06:50 chris which reminds me, nengards husband friend was going to translate the opac into klingon 06:50 larsw "Koha: the intergalactic library system" :) 06:51 chris i must remind him about that at kohacon 06:51 larsw apropos Klingon, http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/10/msg00103.html 06:53 magnus D-7 06:54 chris :-) 06:55 paul_p D-7 1/2 for me :) 06:55 paul_p s/me/hdl & me/ 06:55 chris larsw: thats excellent :) 07:02 magnus in one week i will have finished the first flight and be waiting for the next one... 07:07 ivanc good morning #koha 07:08 magnus g'day ivanc 07:08 ivanc hi magnus 07:12 magnus @wunder bodo norway 07:12 munin magnus: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 5.0�C (8:50 AM CEST on October 12, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 1.0�C. Windchill: 0.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Steady). 07:12 magnus snow on the highest peaks for the last couple of days here, time to head for sunnier climes soon! 07:23 larsw http://ask.debian.net/questions/4caca94619ce95182708cd8e/answers/4cad300619ce953ad3080efb 07:23 larsw robin, maybe you could add a comment to the link above to indicate the current status of Koha Debian packaging? 07:25 chris good idea 07:25 chris theres still an itp floating around somewhere too 07:25 chris maybe slef knows where it is, i think he commented on it last 07:26 chris http://blog.bigballofwax.co.nz/2010/10/12/american-talk/ 07:30 magnus :-) 07:45 chris magnus: http://www.kohacon10.org.nz/live/ 07:45 chris anything you tag #kohacon10 should show up there 07:46 magnus chris: cool! 07:47 chris im hoping to recruit some ppl to do some running commentary during the days too 07:47 chris for the people who cant make it 07:47 magnus is it "just" twitter or are there other sources? 07:50 chris it only watches twitter automatically, but i can add up to 30 'panelists' who can type into it, and anyone can make a comment 07:50 magnus ah, i see 07:51 magnus i'll probably be twittering a lot... 07:52 chris :) 07:56 magnus chris: ig my memory serves me right there has been talk about video and streaming, how is that going? 07:57 magnus s/ig/if/ 08:01 chris and for ppl who dont want to deal with flash or whatever its using 08:01 chris http://rss.coveritlive.com/rss.php?altcast_code=7bd531d726 08:01 chris yeah, not gonna happen 08:01 chris way too expensive to do live streaming in any useful manner 08:01 chris but we do plan to video all the presentations, with the speakers permission that is 08:02 magnus cool 08:03 magnus and put them on youtube or vimeo or something? 08:05 chris something like that 08:05 chris ogv files for download maybe 08:05 chris ill leave that to the smart people who understand that stuff 08:06 magnus good plan! ;-) 09:44 janPasi hi all 09:44 janPasi would someone have time to help me a bit with Koha's search? 09:47 slef Hi. I expect it depends how. 10:01 janPasi Well... 10:03 janPasi for example this: http://koha.kepa.fi/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=3190 can be searched without typing the accents on characters 10:04 janPasi however this one cannot: http://koha.kepa.fi/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=3051 10:05 janPasi the latter biblio seems to be "odd" in some other ways too. It has ended up in our system through Z39.50 and it doesn't have anything on 003 field 10:06 janPasi if i try to fill a value to 003 field and save, i get "production mode trapped fatal error" 10:06 janPasi it also has some really weird characters in 710a field 10:07 janPasi but it cannot be fixed because it refuses to be saved 10:07 janPasi that's problem number one 10:08 slef If you get "production mode trapped fatal error" then check the error log. 10:08 janPasi i'm not sure how many biblios like this there are in the system at the moment, but it has gone quite unstable 10:08 slef I think accent problems are to do with zebra search engine configuration. 10:08 slef Are you sure you have everything running in utf-8? 10:09 janPasi well, yes and no 10:09 janPasi our system is pure utf-8, but we have some biblios from the national library 10:09 kmkale hi all 10:09 janPasi and that's a real strange bird 10:09 slef Also if the biblio ended up in your system through Z39.50, it might be that the MARC record is corrupt, or that a wrong encoding was declared for it (Z39.50 does not disclose encoding in-band). 10:09 slef All this is from memory and my memory is not great. 10:09 janPasi national library uses a Voyager system and they form the accented characters weirdly 10:10 slef Can you get to the biblio through the librarian cataloguing editor? 10:10 janPasi techically it's utf-8, but... 10:10 janPasi yep, i can edit it, but not save 10:11 Fred Hi, got a question about overdue_notices.pl and the way it uses patrons emails 10:11 slef janPasi: Can you look at its MARC view and see any corrupt characters? 10:11 slef Fred: I can't help for an hour. Perhaps someone else can. 10:11 janPasi slef: yes i can 10:12 slef janPasi: you need to delete or correct the corrupt chars. Worst case, it will need the MARC in the database cleaning and I don't have a nice tool for that. 10:13 janPasi that's a bit what i was afraid of... :( 10:13 slef (I've an idea how to make a nice tool for that, but no funding.) 10:13 janPasi the funding is always the problem :D 10:13 slef (I really should open an enh request describing it, so either it will get funding or someone else will just make it.) 10:13 janPasi but how can i correct the characters when i cannot save the biblio? 10:14 slef play with mysql directly (marc and marcxml columns in biblioitems) 10:14 janPasi i have an edited version with corrected characters on my screen, but there is the "production mode trapped fatal error" problem 10:15 slef check the error log 10:15 slef and/or change DebugLevel system preference while you solve this 10:15 janPasi ok, i'll see about that 10:15 janPasi so how can i access zebra's config? 10:16 janPasi i also need to make it search some fields that it doesn't search by default 10:16 Fred the script seems to work fine but it does not put email address into 'to_address' table...making sendings failed 10:19 slef janPasi: /etc/koha/zebra in a standard installation IIRC 10:20 janPasi ok, thx slef :) 10:21 magnus or /etc/koha/zebradb to be precise 10:23 slef oh well, I was close :) 10:25 janPasi well... i think i would have been able to figure that out :D 10:25 janPasi this is in error log: [Tue Oct 12 13:11:04 2010] [error] [client 84.248.124.46] [Tue Oct 12 13:11:04 2010] addbiblio.pl: Wide character in null operation at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.8/MARC/Charset/Table.pm line 96., referer: http://koha.kepa.fi:8080/cgi-bin/koha/cataloguing/addbiblio.pl?biblionumber=3051&amp;op= 10:26 janPasi does it say anything to you? 10:28 slef janPasi: yes, bad encording :-/ 10:28 slef encoding 10:29 slef janPasi: I think if you look at mysql biblioitems.marcxml where biblionumber=3051, it will be truncated. 10:30 janPasi how can i do that? 10:30 janPasi i'm logged in mysql as root and using koha database 10:30 janPasi but how can i see that? 10:32 slef janPasi: select marcxml from biblioitems where biblionumber=3051; again, this is from memory. 10:32 janPasi i could pastebin the output, hang on 10:34 janPasi http://pastebin.com/TzZW9V6v 10:35 slef janPasi: OK, I was wrong, that looks complete. 10:35 janPasi seems ok by me too 10:35 janPasi could it be a problem in marc leader? 10:35 janPasi this is what i have in 000: 01111ncm a22002897i 45000 10:36 janPasi this is 008: 970702s1992 ru 000 | rus 10:36 slef janPasi: so you need to edit 245$a 260$a and $b 300$a 500$a 505$a 710$b 740$a at least before saving it. 10:36 janPasi but those fields contain only valid utf-8 characters, i think? 10:38 janPasi yep, it seems that way to me 10:38 janPasi 710a is faulty in the pastebin, but it's fixed on my screen 10:39 janPasi and so is 245b 10:40 slef janPasi: ok... pastebin claimed to be UTF-8 :-/ 10:40 slef janPasi: I doubt this is a leader problem but I'm not sure what it is without looking more closely, sorry. A wide character error is almost always an encoding FU. 10:41 janPasi i think it gets confused with that record because it has mixed charset 10:41 janPasi or something 10:42 magnus janPasi: i think i have seen errors like this that i solved (?) by editing the leader 10:42 magnus my notes tell me that "00181 2200085 4500" worked but " nam a22 2 4500" gave errors similar to yours 10:43 magnus i have not gotten to the bottom of that problem yet, though... 10:43 slef I'm bowing out. Happy hunting. 10:44 janPasi ok, thanks for all your help :) 10:44 janPasi where exactly is character encoding defined in the leader? 10:44 janPasi i.e. which position/value? 10:45 slef @marc LDR 10:45 munin slef: unknown tag LDR 10:45 slef @marc leader 10:45 munin slef: unknown tag leader 10:45 slef @roulette 10:45 * munin reloads and spins the chambers. 10:47 janPasi the bot kicked you out, why? :D 10:47 magnus http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/adleader.html 09? 10:48 janPasi yep, it seems that way, thx magnus 10:48 magnus sorry, that was auth, this is biblio: 10:48 magnus http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bdleader.html 10:48 janPasi well that's correct then 10:48 janPasi a=utf-8 10:49 janPasi or rather unicode in general 10:50 magnus hm, i'm out of ideas, then... 10:52 janPasi me too :D 11:08 kmkale any idea whether this page has been brought into new wiki? http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=encodingscratchpad if yes where? the encoding and char.. is just a stub 11:10 kmkale the INSTALL.ubuntu* files still point to the old one which no longer exists 11:38 kmkale I have just put some stuff in http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Encoding_and_Character_Sets_in_Koha 12:08 * chris_n does not have enough reputation to vote on ask.debian.net :-( 12:23 slef chris_n: you get that far? I couldn't login. :-( 12:24 chris_n used my google openid to log in 12:24 slef my openid didn't work for me when I tried 12:25 chris_n weirdness indeed 12:25 chris_n heya owen 12:25 owen Hi 12:28 Fred Hello 12:29 Fred i'am back with my overdue_notices.pl problems, someone could help? 12:30 munin New commit(s) kohagit: Updates to INSTALL.debian documentation for 3.2. <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=3713e5f955446081ba6cfc9eb4e6614c405b70b4> 12:31 * chris_n looks around for gmcharlt ;-) 12:31 owen wizzyrea++ 12:33 Fred the script does not fill the 'to_address' table's part with email address from borrowers 12:33 paul_p owen, why ? (did I miss something ?) 12:33 paul_p good morning USA ! 12:33 chris_n paul_p: howdy 12:33 chris_n that last commit was by wizzyrea 12:34 owen paul_p: Because she updated the installation instructions 12:36 hudsonbot Starting build 65 for job Koha (previous build: SUCCESS) 12:37 paul_p hey, we have a new friend (hudsonbot). Hoping he will be more intelligent than some bots i've seen around ;-) 12:40 munin New commit(s) kohagit: fix step to install Indexdata apt key <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=09cf06114e774183b7f15be28bfb0ffbdbeb2972> 12:44 hudsonbot Project Koha build (65): SUCCESS in 7 min 55 sec: http://bugs.koha-community.org:8080/job/Koha/65/ 12:44 hudsonbot Galen Charlton: Updates to INSTALL.debian documentation for 3.2. 12:46 chris_n hudsonbot: botsnack bacon and eggs 12:46 hudsonbot chris_n: great! yum yum. I just love bacon and eggs! 12:51 hudsonbot Starting build 66 for job Koha (previous build: SUCCESS) 12:59 hudsonbot Project Koha build (66): SUCCESS in 7 min 39 sec: http://bugs.koha-community.org:8080/job/Koha/66/ 12:59 hudsonbot Galen Charlton: fix step to install Indexdata apt key 12:59 slef Fred: looking... 13:05 slef Fred: that's expected behaviour. C4::Letters::_send_message_by_email figures out the to_address from the borrowernumber. OK? 13:09 Fred yes 13:12 Fred in fact overdue_notices seems to check correctly if there s a email address or no, but does not populate the to_address to make process_message_queue working correctly 13:13 slef Why do you think process_message_queue needs the to_address populated? 13:18 Fred cause value is null, and no emails receiving on testing, but if i write manually the address into to_adress it works fine 13:19 slef is borrowernumber populated? 13:20 Fred yes 13:20 slef Looking at process_message_queue... 13:24 slef Fred: I can't see an obvious problem. Does status go to failed? 13:24 slef Fred: also, do you get a warning when running process_message_queue? 13:24 slef Fred: finally, what version of Koha is that? 13:26 Fred yep status go to failed but no warning message, i guess it goes to failed status cause process_message did not find any emails 13:27 Fred 3.01.00.140 13:29 slef Where did you download that version? Anyone remind me how to translate db versions to releases? 13:29 sekjal slef: that's about the version for 3.2 beta, I think 13:29 Fred yes 13:30 slef ok, I'm looking at HEAD... I'll switch to rc1 13:31 jcamins_a slef: I think that's around beta 2. 13:31 jcamins_a Good morning, #koha 13:31 slef oh wait 13:32 slef Fred: do you have an SMTP server listening on your external IP port 25? 13:32 slef Fred: I'll get you a command to test 13:32 jcamins Wait, maybe I meant alpha 2 (checking...) 13:33 jcamins I meant beta. 13:33 jcamins There was only one. 13:33 Fred mmm guess so :) was not me installing it, i am not server admin 13:33 slef Fred: try: perl -MMail::Sendmail -e 'print sendmail(To=>"your\@email.address",From=>"your\@email.address",Subject=>"perl test email",Message=>"test")."\n"; print $Mail::Sendmail::error." - " . $Mail::Sendmail::log."\n"' 13:34 slef Fred: but replace your\@email.address with your email address, please. 13:38 Fred it works 13:41 slef ok, I'll return to looking 13:42 Fred is it possible that borrowers.email is kind of being protect? 13:44 slef I don't understand the question. 13:46 slef do you know the borrowernumber? 13:47 slef try: perl -MC4::Members -e 'print C4::Members::GetFirstValidEmailAddress(1234);' replacing the 1234 with the right number 13:47 Fred ok will try it 13:48 Fred answer for email address is correct 13:52 slef ok, well if you look in C4/Letters.pm you should see that is what it uses 13:53 slef possible next actions: upgrade to 3.2rc1, run process_message_queue through the perl debugger. 13:54 Fred ok :) 13:55 Fred thanks a lot for your help! 13:56 slef no problems - sorry I can't cure it from here. 13:56 Fred no worry, i got some clues to go on 13:59 wizzyrea oh woot ! I did it right! 13:59 wizzyrea and good morning 13:59 jcamins Good morning. 14:00 jcamins I see I made it onto the quote list. :) 14:04 wizzyrea :D 14:11 munin New commit(s) kohagit: add Italian installer SQL to test cases <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=990eb589d6f4ceb75d67b16804656e8db657bc09> / Italian installer SQL <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4f3043a0d220047fef1fc5276be9b3ff1f578379> 14:18 slef I see bold as ^B so that appears to say "^Badd Italian installer..." 14:20 wizzyrea *giggle* 14:20 wizzyrea it's like the mafia of sql 14:21 hudsonbot Starting build 67 for job Koha (previous build: SUCCESS) 14:24 kmkale hi wizzyrea 14:26 wizzyrea hi kmkale :) 14:28 jcamins Yay! 14:28 jcamins wizzyrea++ 14:28 wizzyrea jcamins: apply and sign off plox? 14:28 wizzyrea :) 14:29 hudsonbot Project Koha build (67): SUCCESS in 7 min 34 sec: http://bugs.koha-community.org:8080/job/Koha/67/ 14:29 hudsonbot * Galen Charlton: Italian installer SQL 14:29 hudsonbot * Galen Charlton: add Italian installer SQL to test cases 14:29 chris_n gmcharlt: botsnack brownies and icecream :-) 14:30 gmcharlt chris_n: yum yum 14:30 wizzyrea botsnack energy bar 14:31 * owen watches munin, logbot, alogalog, and hudsonbot all fight over the energy bar 14:31 chris_n wizzyrea: you have to specify which bot you are giving the snack to :) 14:31 wizzyrea AHA 14:32 wizzyrea hudsonbot: botsnack energy bar 14:32 hudsonbot wizzyrea: great! yum yum. I just love energy bar! 14:32 wizzyrea he's going to need it 14:33 owen munin: botsnack tiny crumb hudsonbot dropped 14:33 munin owen: Error: "botsnack" is not a valid command. 14:34 owen Poor munin, not even a crumb. 14:37 jcamins Hm. 14:38 jcamins Problem with libyaz-dev? 14:38 jcamins Why did it work before? 14:39 jcamins Well, your patch works, anyway. 14:39 jcamins Looks like gmcharlt already applied it to master, so I won't send my signed-off patch to the list. 14:40 kmkale bye all 14:41 munin New commit(s) kohagit: add new lenny dependency libmodule-install-perl to the apt-get-debian-lenny.sh script <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e3873e8ecf90a27f65a5d2cb5bebe77cb562831d> 14:41 wizzyrea hrm i didn't see it in the script from a fresh ... aha 14:41 wizzyrea that would be why 14:41 wizzyrea lol 14:41 * jcamins apparently has the ability to look a little bit into the future. 14:42 * wizzyrea marvels at jcamins ability 14:42 jcamins ;) 14:43 jcamins Do you have any trouble with libyaz-dev? 14:43 wizzyrea I need to go back and try it agian 14:43 wizzyrea again* 14:44 wizzyrea NEKLS was going to do another round of clean install testing probably this afternoon? 14:44 jcamins I ran it before and didn't have any problems, but maybe there was another change that caused problems since then? 14:44 jcamins nekls++ 14:45 wizzyrea I thought someone mentioned something about libyaz yesterday... 14:45 wizzyrea I've slept since then, though. 14:46 jcamins I don't think so. 14:49 jcamins (just checked the log) 14:49 jcamins I think it's probably just something strange with this computer. 14:51 hudsonbot Starting build 68 for job Koha (previous build: SUCCESS) 14:55 * chris_n reminds jcamins that there is something strange with every computer... just not the same thing with any two 14:59 hudsonbot Project Koha build (68): SUCCESS in 7 min 38 sec: http://bugs.koha-community.org:8080/job/Koha/68/ 14:59 hudsonbot Galen Charlton: add new lenny dependency libmodule-install-perl to the apt-get-debian-lenny.sh script 15:08 briceSanc hello 15:08 CGI608 hello 15:08 CGI608 how areu 15:08 CGI548 hi 15:09 briceSanc fine and u ? 15:09 CGI608 me too 15:09 CGI608 where are you from? 15:09 owen CGI608: Do you have a question about Koha? 15:09 CGI608 whos is koha? 15:10 CGI548 Hi I need to set build_browser_and_cloud.pl 15:10 owen CGI608: If you don't know you're in the wrong place 15:10 CGI608 but i want to know plz 15:10 jcamins CGI608: Koha is an open source product. It isn't "owned" by anyone. See http://koha-community.org/ 15:10 wizzyrea http://koha-community.org/ 15:11 owen CGI548: Please note that koha.org is no longer the official site of the Koha project 15:11 wizzyrea that is supposed to be http://koha-community.org/about 15:11 CGI608 ah oki 15:11 CGI608 nice 15:11 CGI548 ok 15:11 briceSanc Hi Owen, I answered you about the bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5281 15:11 munin 04Bug 5281: trivial, P5, ---, brice.sanchez, ASSIGNED, "Check in" then "Renew" checkboxes checked in the same time 15:14 owen Didn't mean to scare off CGI548 15:17 owen briceSanc: I saw your comment. I'm not crazy about losing the TD click event, but I'm willing to do so if it's the only way to correct the bug 15:18 briceSanc ok 15:35 jcamins Why isn't there an acquisitions framework by default? 15:37 jcamins Ah. bug 4955 15:37 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4955 critical, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, adding to basket with no item throws error 15:37 jcamins Wait, no, not that one. 15:37 jcamins Bug 3841? 15:37 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3841 normal, P5, ---, henridamien, NEW, Should have Default ACQ Framework 15:37 jcamins There we go. 15:38 slef replied to a PTFS comment on Nicole's blog... I though nengard also worked for biblibre but it's not on http://www.web2learning.net/about-me 15:38 nengard slef when i first left liblime both bywater and biblibre sponsored me to work on the manual - that contract ran out January 1 and I have been a ByWater employee since 15:40 slef oic, no matter, I used myself as an example to rebut the PTFSer. 15:40 jcamins How does one create an ACQ framework? 15:41 jcamins Is it just like a regular Framework, with the ID ACQ? 15:45 * owen notices the PTFS supporters never have links associated with their blog comments 15:46 gmcharlt jcamins: that's my understanding, yes 15:46 jcamins Okay, thanks. 15:47 sekjal we need a 'clone framework' button 15:47 wizzyrea ^^^ 15:47 wizzyrea that 15:47 slef owen: maybe they're not allowed to have their own brai^H^H^H^Hwebsites. 15:47 wizzyrea yes 15:47 wizzyrea please 15:48 sekjal wizzyrea: added to my list... for what that's worth 15:48 wizzyrea I like your list. Things happen when they get on your list. 15:48 wizzyrea :) 15:49 sekjal :) 15:49 sekjal I'm a list-makin' kinda guy 15:52 nengard sekjal and wizzyrea - when you create a new framework it asks which one you want to base it off of - pretty much the same as cloning 15:54 sekjal nengard: well whatdaya know? there it is 15:54 nengard :) 15:54 * nengard is the documentation manager - which means she has clicked every possible link in Koha :) 15:54 sekjal it would just be a matter of reordering the workflow a bit 15:54 sekjal or putting the creation and duplication pages together 15:55 nengard more important to me is to see a better way to edit framework - easier deletion of fields and subfields etc 15:55 jcamins That is a really confusing way of explaining how the ACQ framework. 15:55 jcamins And that is not a sentence. 15:55 wizzyrea but I agree about editing the framework 15:55 wizzyrea it is too many clicks. 15:56 wizzyrea way, way too many 15:56 jcamins The error message it gives you about not having an ACQ framework is very confusing - it doesn't really explain what to do. 15:56 jcamins I certainly agree! 15:57 jcamins What it means by "the items framework would be used" is "anything that you have set up to display on the items tab in your ACQ framework will show up. 15:57 jcamins " 15:57 * jcamins apparently can no longer type 15:58 sekjal I'd like to see the Frameworks a) made easier to edit and b) fully govern the display behaviour of MARC data in the OPAC and staff client 15:58 jcamins I'd also like to see them support indicators. 15:58 jcamins Actually, I'd like to see everything support indicators. 15:59 jcamins (authorities, etc.) 15:59 gmcharlt sekjal: +1 to making frameworks easier to edit; I disagree about fully governing the display behavior of MARC data, as that effectively locks out XSLT or any other template language without a *lot* of special coding 16:00 jcamins What format is date acquired supposed to be in? 16:00 gmcharlt unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant by the second part of your statement 16:01 sekjal gmcharlt: yes, I understand it would be hard to use XSLT and Frameworks together. perhaps my idea isn't the best way 16:01 sekjal what I want is for librarians to more easily be able to choose what MARC info displays, without having make changes to the codebase (and track those changes for the rest of their system's life) 16:02 sekjal perhaps a way to upload custom XSLT, and then select amongst them 16:02 sekjal or have the governing XSLT referenced in the 942 somewhere 16:02 gmcharlt ick (I'd rather not stick yet more presentation metadata into the MARC record) 16:02 gmcharlt but as far as managing XSLT stylesheets 16:03 gmcharlt sticking them in the database and managing them that way could be a win 16:03 sekjal gmcharlt: agreed 16:03 sekjal oh, I've got ideas about this.... 16:03 gmcharlt we can use memcached during the rendering 16:03 gmcharlt to save on database lookups 16:03 sekjal but if I start rambling, I won't get any actual work done 16:04 jcamins In that case I will save the problems I see with that approach for another day. 16:07 jcamins (although I do agree that the way stylesheets are handled should be changed) 16:10 sekjal what about storing the bibliographic XML (in whatever metadata format, not just MARC), the current stylesheet used, and the output of the application of that stylesheet all in the database together? 16:10 sekjal that'd be a lot of data.... but faster to fetch than to render each time, I'd imagine 16:10 jcamins It's an interesting idea, but I think that makes it harder to share stylesheet improvements. 16:11 sekjal the code would have to automatically re-style the HTML any time the XSLT is changed 16:12 sekjal rather than the actually XSLT in with the metadata, a link out to the table the XSLTs are stored in 16:12 sekjal that's better... normal form and all 16:13 jcamins I think it would be best to compile the HTML JIT. We have 170k records, but only about 1k are going to be viewed any given month. Why rerun the other 174k? 16:14 sekjal so long as there were the proper allowances made for speed, that makes sense to me 16:14 jcamins Err, make that the other 169k. 16:14 gmcharlt sekjal: I'd rather just stick pre-rendered bib output in a cache 16:14 gmcharlt not in the database 16:14 jcamins Right now we're rendering every record every time. 16:15 gmcharlt that way you only render what is actually used 16:15 jcamins But my major objection is that if you store the stylesheets in the database, how do you merge multiple sets of changes? 16:17 gmcharlt jcamins: build in the ability to do diffs, I suppose 16:17 gmcharlt maybe the workflow would be to have a special class of system-supplied templates 16:17 gmcharlt when a library starts using Koha, they wouldn't use a system-supplied template directly, but would use a copy of it 16:17 gmcharlt then when they upgrade, the copy wouldn't be automatically overwritten 16:18 sekjal gmcharlt: yes, just like that 16:18 sekjal have system supplied, and then local use 16:18 gmcharlt but the librarian would have the option to compare the results with any changes to the system-supplied templates 16:18 gmcharlt and apply changes, if needed 16:18 wizzyrea a la wiki revisions? 16:18 gmcharlt one thing that would help that is a abstracting some of the stuff such as generating search links 16:18 chris_n C4::Git ? 16:18 gmcharlt out of the base XSLT templates 16:19 wizzyrea (trying to imagine how that would look to a user) 16:19 gmcharlt and define a set of base template functions (e.g., koha-build-bib-link, koha-build-subject-link, etc.) 16:19 gmcharlt that are invoked by the display templates 16:20 chris_n how about template objects and link building methods? 16:22 jcamins chris_n: i.e., replace XSLT with a domain-specific bibliographic formatting language? 16:24 jcamins That seems kind of horrifying. CSL for MARC? 16:25 * chris_n boggles at the complexity of that thought 16:26 chris_n and the thought of how to merge in improvements coming down the pipe from the main repo on a production system 16:26 chris_n recalls the nightmares of keeping custom templates in sync :-P 16:26 * wizzyrea shudders remembering her time as a template syncer 16:27 * chris_n still does time in that regard 16:27 * wizzyrea also remembers the relief of the day that 99% of the changes were converted to jquery 16:29 wizzyrea nengard: are you writing the release notes for 3.2? or is gmcharlt doing that? 16:29 sekjal idea: a centralist Koha template and XSLT library, managed by Git, that can be fetched from through the staff client 16:29 nengard wizzyrea - um - no one asked me to - i thought the RM usually did that 16:29 gmcharlt wizzyrea: I'm writing them 16:29 wizzyrea cool 16:30 chris_n sekjal: I think you'd have to get git involved somehow if the ability to merge templates were to be offered inside of the staff interface 16:31 nengard gmcharlt (or anyone) where do we stand on my comments about the privacy page in 3.2? 16:31 jcamins Yeah, git would definitely be needed. 16:31 gmcharlt nengard: we can kill it 16:31 nengard :) 16:31 nengard k 16:31 sekjal git++ 16:32 chris_n hence my earlier line: C4::Git :) 16:32 jcamins And a central repository would help, but I'm not convinced that it would eliminate the problem of dealing with local templates. 16:33 * chris_n can guarantee that it would not 16:33 chris_n and there would be merge conflicts to resolve 16:33 chris_n those might drive some librarians mad ;-) 16:33 * wizzyrea is still a proponent of the wordpress widget type organization of OPAC/Staff results 16:33 wizzyrea only cached 16:34 gmcharlt that would actually be an argument for a (very, very, very simple) domain-specific language for the bib display tempaltes 16:34 jcamins Yes, merge conflicts would be a serious problem. 16:34 wizzyrea and detail display 16:35 chris_n gmcharlt: this would allow the library to "write" their "own" templates 16:36 jcamins gmcharlt: provided it was simple (e.g., object-oriented is not simple), I can see the benefits. 16:36 chris_n but would we then have to write some sort of template editor? 16:36 jcamins Definitely. 16:36 jcamins How many people have ventured to adjust the ISBD syspref? 16:36 gmcharlt chris_n: not to put *too* much abstraction, but I think, practically speaking the basis might be starting with creating a code framework that allows hooking in multiple template/render engines 16:37 gmcharlt with the initial one, for backwards compatibility, being the status quo 16:37 jcamins And the second one, for jcamins, being a LaTeX-based PDF renderer. 16:38 wizzyrea well that was weird 16:38 * chris_n is about finished with working with any sort of pdf stuff 16:39 chris_n the standard is too unicode unfriendly 16:39 jcamins chris_n: very sensible. Unfortunately, if you want to generate camera-ready copy automatically, PDF seems to be the way to go. 16:40 chris_n jcamins: true, and it is not impossible to use in a unicode environment, just next to it :) 16:41 jcamins I'm hoping that xelatex makes it a little easier. 16:41 * chris_n had some correspondence with an engineer at adobe about the problems we encounter in Koha 16:42 jcamins nengard: is this a typo in the manual? "You will not be able to enter a contract retrospectively, the end date must be before today's date." 16:42 jcamins Under 7.2.3.1 16:42 nengard ummm 16:42 nengard it does sound that way doesn't it 16:42 jcamins Yeah, but I'm not sure what contracts do, exactly. 16:43 nengard but I'm not sure what it's supposed to say - i think I asked biblibre folks to help me with that 16:43 nengard and paul just left 16:43 nengard hmmm 16:43 jcamins Okay, well, I reported it, so now I don't have to feel bad when I forget about it. 16:43 nengard hehe 16:43 nengard i'll see if i can get some help on list 16:47 jcamins How to tell when you've spent too much time looking at your Cutter table: you decide to create a test record of "Green eggs and ham," and don't need to look at the Cutter sheet to assign a Cutter for Seuss. 16:49 jcamins (S487 for anyone who was curious) 16:51 * wizzyrea was totally curious 16:55 slef I like this description "a collaborative community in the wild" Koha? 17:28 jcamins wizzyrea: the link to the English manual uses the ?page_id= URL instead of a friendly URL. 17:29 jcamins The link this page, I mean: http://koha-community.org/documentation/ 17:29 jcamins It uses a friendly URL in the menu bar. 17:42 slef shall I try to edit? 17:42 jcamins Oh, sure. 17:42 jcamins It should be a link to http://koha-community.org/documentation/3-2-manual/ instead of http://koha-community.org/?page_id=135 17:43 jcamins At least, I think it should. 17:43 slef try now 17:43 jcamins Yep, all better. Thanks! 17:43 slef cool 18:03 * collum is now having bad flashbacks of deriving Cutter numbers in Library School. 18:06 jcamins collum: you mean that wasn't the highpoint of your education? 18:08 * chris_n just uses oclc's cutter ap 18:08 chris_n very lazy, I know 18:10 jcamins chris_n: that's only possible if you use the standard Cutter table. 18:10 jcamins And have a computer... 18:10 jcamins Also, that probably requires you to have OCLC, doesn't it? 18:11 chris_n no, its a stand-alone app 18:11 chris_n and has a couple of mode iirc 18:12 jcamins The need for a computer is fairly absolute, though. 18:12 chris_n http://www.oclc.org/dewey/support/program/ 18:13 jcamins Nifty. 18:15 jcamins Those are definitely Dewey Cutters. 18:15 jcamins (as suggested by the URL, of course) 18:21 collum When I went to Library School Gopher was the most popular app. :) 18:21 jcamins Hm. 18:22 jcamins Is there any reason to use a CONCAT with a GROUP BY clause, instead of just listing all the relevant fields separated by commas? 18:26 jcamins Huh. 18:27 jcamins 7144 versus 94 records. 18:29 jcamins That was unexpected. 18:33 briceSanc How does the translation files .po work ? Do they copy the EN folder from a template to create an fr-CA folder ? 18:35 briceSanc If the folder fr-CA already exist : What happens to the files in the fr-CA that are not in the EN folder ? 18:36 briceSanc Are they deleted? 18:40 wizzyrea I'm confused, what now? 18:40 wizzyrea (the manual url's are a mess, simply bc of the way they are integrated with wp) 18:40 jcamins wizzyrea: slef fixed it. 18:40 chris_n briceSanc: that's probably a question either for the list or chris 18:40 wizzyrea (and we're working on it) 18:40 wizzyrea What was the problem? 18:40 jcamins It wasn't in the URL. 18:40 jcamins It was the link to the URL. 18:40 jcamins From the documentation page. 18:41 briceSanc ok 18:41 jcamins Okay, that was completely incoherent. 18:41 jcamins Let me try again. 18:41 wizzyrea lol 18:41 jcamins The problem wasn't in the manual. 18:41 * wizzyrea is listening intently 18:41 jcamins It was the link *to* the manual, from the main documentation page. 18:41 chris briceSanc: not deleted 18:41 wizzyrea oh, did it not work? 18:42 wizzyrea or it was just not the pretty url 18:42 chris But they will be replaced if they exist 18:42 jcamins It was not a pretty URL, and my web browser threw a fit when it redirected. 18:42 jcamins Strangely, hitting enter on the rewritten URL worked fine. 18:43 wizzyrea does anybody know, if you anonymize the circ history for a patron, does the circ also go away from the item's circ data? or does it just not have a name 18:43 wizzyrea ohhh 18:44 chris briceSanc: that help? 18:44 jcamins Useful fact: CONCAT doesn't like NULLs. 18:44 briceSanc chris, a little, thanks :) 18:44 jcamins Which means we have >7100 probable duplicates. 18:45 jcamins (duplicate records, that is) 18:45 briceSanc chris, it's because, we made change in the fr-CA template instead of EN :S 18:45 wizzyrea err scratch that last question 18:46 chris briceSanc: oh yeah if you do that then regen the tempaltes from the po files you change will get overwritten 18:47 briceSanc ok it's what i think...crap... 18:47 briceSanc that help ! 18:49 briceSanc ok, thanks for your answer, i go back to my code in order to store it in the good folder 18:49 chris Yup :) 18:50 chris_n g'morning chris 18:51 chris Its certainly morning 18:51 chris :) 18:51 chris @wunder wellington nz 18:51 munin chris: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0�C (7:00 AM NZDT on October 13, 2010). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Windchill: 6.0�C. Pressure: 30.30 in 1026 hPa (Falling). 18:51 chris Its gonna be a nice day weather wise too 18:52 chris Heya pianohack 18:52 pianohack Hi chris 18:53 pianohack How's it going? 18:53 nengard wizzyrea can you pull the manual? I fixed a typo that was confusing people 18:53 chris_n hey pianohack 18:53 nengard hiya pianohack 18:53 pianohack Hi chris_n, nengard 18:53 chris Not long to kohacon so good :) 18:53 pianohack Cool 18:53 chris How's the fbi clearance going? 18:53 pianohack I... don't really knew 18:53 pianohack *know 18:54 pianohack I'm apparently OK to work even though I didn't think I was 18:54 pianohack bureaucratic limbo, the government is good at it 18:54 pianohack How's the conference planning going? 18:55 chris Last little bits to finish off, all the big stuff is done 18:55 pianohack Cool 18:55 pianohack I shall follow along from the IRC peanut gallery 18:55 * owen goes up for a high-five with pianohack 18:56 pianohack No NZ trip for you either? 18:56 * jcamins will be conference-ing vicariously through IRC, too 18:56 chris Ahh there is www.kohacon10.org.nz/live/ 18:56 chris Which I hope to keep buzzing 18:57 nengard what's the wifi situation at the conference? 18:57 owen What does the "send questions" thing do? 18:58 nengard will it be able to handle us all 18:58 chris Sends questions to the ppl working coveritlive 18:58 chris Dunno, and maybe 18:59 chris Not a lot I can do if it cant 18:59 jcamins You can gnash your teeth. 19:00 jcamins :) 19:00 chris :) 19:00 nengard hehe 19:00 nengard just curious 19:01 chris I've been getting good practice at that 19:01 chris owen: if you sent a question I won't see it til I get to work :) 19:01 chris It was ok at linuxconf 19:02 chris So should be 19:02 chris Which reminds me I need to call si today 19:07 owen Wouldn't you know my attempt at fixing Bug 5281 would work in everything bug IE 19:07 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5281 trivial, P5, ---, brice.sanchez, ASSIGNED, "Check in" then "Renew" checkboxes checked in the same time 19:07 owen IE-- 19:08 pianohack ie-- 19:08 pianohack @karma ie 19:08 munin pianohack: Karma for "ie" has been increased 0 times and decreased 10 times for a total karma of -10. 19:08 owen Is karma case-sensitive? 19:08 owen @karma IE 19:08 munin owen: Karma for "IE" has been increased 0 times and decreased 10 times for a total karma of -10. 19:09 owen It could be an amazing coincidence 19:09 jcamins IE-- 19:09 jcamins @karma ie 19:09 munin jcamins: Karma for "ie" has been increased 0 times and decreased 11 times for a total karma of -11. 19:09 jcamins Nope. 19:09 jcamins Not a coincidence. ;) 19:09 pianohack The only problem with that output is how positive it is 19:09 pianohack ie-- 19:10 pianohack For helping to make web development an impenetrable, nondeterministic morass 19:11 jcamins ie-- # for being so bad that using Safari 1 with koha seems like a good idea 19:11 jcamins pianohack: better? 19:11 pianohack much :) 19:11 jcamins It seems to me it should be possible to get a count of items created by month. 19:12 jcamins Maybe GROUP BY YEAR(items.dateaccessioned), MONTH(items.dateaccessioned) 19:14 pianohack That should work 19:14 jcamins 1949-06? 19:14 jcamins 2001-01? 19:15 jcamins Heh. 19:15 jcamins I think we have some bad data. 19:17 pianohack at first I was all "wut?" and then I was all "oh yeah, relational databases hadn't been invented in 1949" 19:17 chris hehe 19:17 jcamins And we started creating item records in November 2009. 20:19 wizzyrea coveritlive is pretty robust 20:19 wizzyrea a lot of news organizations use it for local events 20:20 chris yeah, i like it has the rss feed 20:20 wizzyrea sorry, i'm reading backlog 20:20 chris cos you can archive that way, also it has xml 20:20 chris export 20:28 jcamins Is it possible to push to a repository without adding it? 20:28 jcamins for example: git push git@github.com:amnumsoc/koha.git 20:29 jcamins (leaving aside for a moment the fact that the URL is GitHub and not Gitorious) 20:33 chris yes it is 20:33 jcamins Cool, thanks. 20:33 chris if that repository is set up to accept pushes from you :) 20:34 jcamins Right. That's why I say "read the documentation before trying this at home." 20:34 jcamins But I figure if that will work, it will work regardless of whether or not the person following the instruction has set up a remote with the same name I would use. 20:35 jcamins And I'm not explaining how to set up a git repository from scratch. 20:35 chris cool 20:39 jcamins Time to go. 20:39 jcamins Have a good night, #koha 20:52 sekjal goodnight, #koha! 21:02 munin New commit(s) kohagit: remove scratch files from the it-IT SQL files <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=df47a149b0a251c7705f3dfa53a1553277cc17d6> 21:03 chris go go gmcharlt 21:06 hudsonbot Starting build 69 for job Koha (previous build: SUCCESS) 21:07 CGI879 good afternoon 21:08 CGI879 i have a problem... 21:09 CGI879 when i lend a book.....my return date is 1990? 21:09 chris what version of koha CGI879 ? 21:10 CGI879 3.0.2 21:10 darling you should probably return it immediately and hope the fine isn't too much 21:10 * darling is very helpful today 21:11 CGI879 no....this is not my problem... 21:11 CGI879 my return date is 1990 not 2010 21:11 chris whats the system clock on the server say? 21:12 chris and is it return date, or the date due? 21:12 CGI879 return date 21:13 chris so when you return the item it says it was returned in 1990? 21:13 chris or when you issue it, it says it is due back in 1990? 21:13 CGI879 yes...automatically 21:13 chris which one? 21:13 hudsonbot Project Koha build (69): SUCCESS in 7 min 32 sec: http://bugs.koha-community.org:8080/job/Koha/69/ 21:13 hudsonbot Galen Charlton: remove scratch files from the it-IT SQL files 21:14 CGI879 returnt automatically in 1990 21:14 CGI879 not 2010 21:14 CGI879 why? 21:14 chris i dont know 21:14 chris ive never ever heard of that before 21:14 chris what date does the server think it is 21:15 CGI879 mm...wait 21:17 CGI879 i can set teh koha date? 21:17 CGI879 the 21:17 chris no it uses the system time 21:17 CGI879 ahhh ok 21:19 CGI879 thanks 21:23 chris is it working now? 21:52 * jcamins would just like to reiterate his extreme lack of desire to be involved in non-profit management. 21:52 jcamins (it's quarterly report time!) 21:53 chris ahh yeah, i still vote for spi or software freedom conservancy, or hlt who has time for that :) 21:53 jcamins My cat agrees. 21:54 jcamins ;) 21:54 jcamins It's not that I don't think non-profits do important things. 21:55 chris yeah :) i just see it as smarter to make use of existing structures 21:55 chris if its good enough for debian, good enough for me 21:59 robin The latest SFLC podcast talks a bit about projects and the conservancy 22:00 chris oh ill hve to listen 22:01 jcamins This is my first report that I don't have to use the phrase "however, there are mitigating circumstances." 22:02 robin Oh no! that means there are no mitigating circumstances? :) 22:02 jcamins No, it means I have good news. 22:02 jcamins Membership is up! 22:02 chris sweet! 22:04 chris http://listen.grooveshark.com/#/s/06+Good+Life/2337Pe <-- some brassy goodness to help you work 22:05 chris i always end up listening to dub when the sun is shining 22:05 robin insufficient metal for working to. 22:06 chris heh 22:07 robin erk, and that reminds me I forgot to bring my USB soundcard in, I think that the onboard audio on this computer is doing bad things to the sound and want to compare it. 22:40 slef SFLC, time to make podcasts? They're not doing enough work ;-) 22:40 slef robin: is the driver snd-pcspkr? 22:41 robin slef: heh no. But onboard sound is traditionally pretty terrible. 22:43 slef I know. I use some C-Media USB device for telephone even. 22:45 robin Yeah, I have a creative something-or-other, got it so I could get 5.1 from a laptop, but after using it for music, I could no longer stand the onboard let's-play-this-through-mud-first onboard HDA thingy 22:53 slef @marc 440 a 22:53 munin slef: Title 22:54 robin that could do with providing more detail really 22:54 chris what! 22:54 chris how many titles does something need 22:54 chris @marc 245 a 22:54 munin chris: Title 22:54 robin Field 440 - Series Statement/Added Entry-Title [OBSOLETE, 2008] 22:54 chris @marc 700 a 22:54 munin chris: Personal name 22:54 chris @marc 100 a 22:54 munin chris: Personal name A surname and/or forename; letters, initials, abbreviations, phrases, or numbers used in place of a name; or a family name. 22:54 chris make up your mind!! 22:55 robin actually, the more I use it, the more the ideas behind MARC make sense. I just still don't like the implementation. 22:56 chris the basic idea is kinda flawed for today, trying to make it do FRBR is kinda hard 22:57 chris but as a storage and interchange format for 1970 22:57 chris it was fine :) 22:57 robin FRBR? 22:57 chris http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_Requirements_for_Bibliographic_Records 22:57 robin ah right, yeah 23:54 wasabi meh, tcl-nz have just switched to opendns? :/ 23:56 chris they have? 23:58 pastebot "wasabi" at 203.97.99.222 pasted "wasabi:~ masonjames$ dig dsads" (20 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/82 23:59 wasabi looks like it for me, tho its working erratically... which is normal for TCL