Time Nick Message
00:48 chris_n heya chris
03:13 Amit heya chris
03:13 chris hiya Amit
04:22 cait morning #koha :)
04:25 robin hi cait
04:25 cait hi robin :)
04:25 cait chris: I have the patch at my computer at work, will resend later - thx!
04:26 chris mein gott
04:26 chris why are you awake?
04:27 cait it's not that early
04:27 richard heh
04:27 cait distance study
04:27 cait 6:30
04:27 chris ahh i thought 4.30
04:27 cait no :)
04:27 cait that would be really early, although I sometimes really get up at 5
04:29 chris i just wanted to say mein gott really
04:30 cait lol
04:30 cait learning German? :)
04:32 chris heh yeah
05:14 cait ah, wondered why you chose those 2 patches
05:15 cait :)
05:16 cait the first 2 in my list
05:35 cait time to go to work - bbl :)
06:30 ivanc hi #koha
06:36 kf hi #koha
06:44 ivanc hi kf
06:45 kf guten Morgen ivanc
06:46 hdl hi
06:46 hdl hi chris
06:47 magnus hiya ivanc, kf, hdl et al!
06:48 ivanc hi magnus
06:48 kf hi magnus and hdl
06:48 kf chris: still around?
06:51 kf @seen chris
06:51 munin kf: chris was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 19 minutes, and 1 second ago: <chris> heh yeah
08:21 chris kf: you about?
08:21 kf here
08:21 chris yeah, basically it doesnt need the no strict
08:21 chris or the use strict
08:21 chris perl -e 'use strict; use Locale::Currency::Format; my $formatted_fine = currency_format("NZD", "10", FMT_SYMBOL); print $formatted_fine; '
08:22 chris $10.00
08:22 kf try EUR :)
08:22 kf no, you don't need to
08:22 chris €10,00
08:22 kf oh nice :)
08:23 kf ok, what do you want me to do?
08:23 kf delete those lines?
08:23 chris so yeah i think chris_n thought it was a bareword, but FMT_SYMBOL is actually a subroutine
08:23 chris in Locale::Currency::Format
08:23 chris so either you can, or ill send a follow up patch removing those 2 lines
08:24 chris whatever you like
08:24 kf I can do, but perhaps in the afternoon
08:24 kf small emergencies everywhere today
08:24 chris ahh
08:24 chris no worries, whenever is fine
08:25 kf ok :)
08:25 chris ill try to signoff some more tomorrow
08:25 kf thx!
08:26 kf I think chris_n wanted to take a look at that patch too - forgot to note it in my list
08:26 chris cool
08:26 kf - but perhaps it's even better now, when we fix one more thing with the patch
08:27 chris yup, this isnt a biggy, but it will make the script execute slightly faster
08:27 kf cool :)
08:28 kf thx for your help and explaining chris
08:28 chris http://www.flickr.com/photos/ranginui/4985102611/
08:28 chris no problem
08:28 chris the more i explain, the more ppl know, and the less i have to do in the future ... its purely selfish hehe
08:29 magnus chris++
08:35 kf chris++ :)
08:41 magnus @quote add <chris> the more i explain, the more ppl know, and the less i have to do in the future ... its purely selfish hehe
08:41 munin magnus: Error: You must be registered to use this command. If you are already registered, you must either identify (using the identify command) or add a hostmask matching your current hostmask (using the "hostmask add" command).
08:42 kf @quote add <chris> the more i explain, the more ppl know, and the less i have to do in the future ... its purely selfish hehe
08:42 munin kf: The operation succeeded. Quote #94 added.
08:44 magnus thanks, kf
08:45 magnus @quote get 93
08:45 munin magnus: Quote #93: "Koha is not an acronym, so it should not be in all-capitals. Koha is a Maori word." (added by wizzyrea at 03:20 PM, September 09, 2010)
08:51 kf you think KOHA is bad? I have to fight against KoHa around here
08:51 chris [off] KOHA is bad because thats another one of ptfs tactics, they have trademarked KOHA
08:52 chris [off] that and buying up every domain name they can think of
08:52 kf [off] they trademarked the upper-case form of Koha?
08:53 kf hmpf.
08:53 chris [off] liblime did in the USA, PTFS tried to in NZ
08:53 kf [off] strange.
08:54 kf meeting now, bbl!
08:54 chris [off] you'll notice on their site, their new koha logo has KOHA
08:55 chris [off] http://www.ptfs.com/ top right
09:00 magnus [off] and some kind of new logo, only on the front page - wow those pages are a mess now...
09:01 chris [off] yeah they had that logo on their sign at ALA in july
09:04 magnus [off] oh well, there are better things to waste time on - looking forward to venting some late night steam during kohacon, though ;-)
09:07 chris [off] yeah, i just wish they would leave us alone now, im over it
09:10 magnus it's impressive to see all the activity on the bugs and patches lists these days!
09:12 chris yeah things are ticking along
09:13 chris good to see the new rfc too
09:13 magnus can't wait for 3.2 be done, so we can think about all the goodness that will be in 3.4 ;-)
09:13 magnus um, what rfc?
09:16 magnus probably this one? http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/NISO_CORE_protocol i'm way behind in reading the lists these days - need to spend time on other things than koha... :-(
09:18 Shiny what's the [off] mean in your folks' chatting?
09:20 magnus Shiny: lines that start with [off] will not show up in the log http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/
09:21 Shiny thanks magnus
09:22 magnus you're welcome! ;-)
09:25 chris ahh nope some new ones from osslabs lemme find em
09:27 chris http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Purchase_Approvals_Process
09:27 chris http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Payments_Process
09:33 magnus yeah, looks good!
09:42 kf magnus: I like the activity too :) I think we must look forward and work together
09:43 magnus yay!
09:43 chris and ignore those who are trying to ruin it
09:43 chris we have more people than ever contributing
09:43 kf :)
09:44 chris theres no need to worry about one hostile company
09:44 magnus yeah, the best reaction is to show that the community is stronger and more productive than ever!
09:45 chris [off] it is only their customers i feel sorry for
09:45 kf I like to think we can persuade people to use koha by making it the better product. If we succeed there is no need to worry about one company
09:47 magnus [off] and their customers probably should think about where they are and where they want to go...
09:50 chris [off] well we have to make sure that they at least have more then just the ptfs side of the story, so they can make informed decisions, if they listen to ptfs they will think we are all evil and our code is bad, and we just want to get rich thats why we dont like ptfs, because those are precisely the things they are saying
09:50 chris yep, thats definitely true kf
10:00 ivanc [off] right thinking kf
10:32 wasabi um, is this not really curious...?
10:33 wasabi http://www.galileowaswrong.com/galileowaswrong/
10:33 chris theres crazy people everywhere
10:52 chris hi nengard
10:52 nengard hello
11:00 Amit hi nengard
11:00 nengard howdy
11:12 nengard question about long overdues
11:12 nengard i entered this at the command line: $PERL5LIB/misc/cronjobs/longoverdue.pl --lost 30=2 --charge 1
11:13 nengard but it says it's in ### TEST MODE
11:13 nengard how do I make it go into 'real' mode?
11:14 chris --confirm confirm. without this option, the script will report the number of affected items and return without modifying any records.
11:16 nengard bingo
11:16 nengard missed that line :)
11:17 chris always pays to take a look at the script before you run it, eg
11:17 nengard i did look at the script - just missed that part of the perldoc
11:17 chris WARNING: This script is known to be faulty. It is NOT recommended to use multiple --lost options. See http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2881
11:17 munin 04Bug 2881: normal, PATCH-Sent, ---, nahuel.angelinetti, RESOLVED FIXED, Default sorting in advanced search
11:17 nengard it's first thing monday morning :)
11:18 chris wow, that script is horrible
11:18 nengard LOL
11:18 chris srsly
11:19 chris i wouldnt use that in production
11:19 nengard k - so we need to add that to the list of things that were screwed up by not knowing how to code
11:19 nengard well we need something that does what it's supposed to do - so i was testing
11:19 nengard and it didn't work anyway
11:26 chris well, it was never meant to last long, add it to the list of things that would have gotten finished properly if the person writing didnt have a complete jerk for a boss
11:32 chris and now bedtime
11:47 slef hi all
11:49 jwagner Hi slef
11:49 Amit heya jwagner
11:49 jwagner Hi Amit
11:50 slef I'm just fixing up our vendors listing entry. Anyone know why the admin is in ISO-8859-1 now? It mangled our accents (which were UTF-8).
11:50 slef Anyone want their vendor listing entry updated while I'm in there?
11:53 jwagner slef, where are you talking about?
11:54 slef http://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/
12:01 nengard slef i don't know for sure, but that might be a byproduct of a change wizzyrea made to make the manuals print right - not sure if they're are connected through
12:01 nengard though
12:02 nengard if so we'll need to find another work around for the manual
12:03 slef nengard: shall I email wizzyrea or will you take it up?
12:04 slef Moving from UTF-8 to ISO-8859-1 seems a little backwards.
12:04 nengard I'll contact her since I know what she did to make the manual work -- the converter for the manual to HTML seems to need ISO or accents in the manual turn into question marks - if I'm understanding right what she did
12:04 nengard we did know that something might pop up to show us this move wouldn't work :(
12:18 slef Thanks. If you'd like help, we'd probably need to know what is the converter for the manual to HTML? Where is the manual source?
12:20 owen A belated happy birthday to you jwagner!
12:20 jwagner Thanks owen
12:31 magnus slef: i guess the source is here? http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=kohadocs.git;a=summary
12:37 * chris_n wishes jwagner a late happy birthday as well
12:37 nengard slef, manual source is in git: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=kohadocs.git;a=summary -- I don't know what converter it is
12:37 chris_n owen about?
12:37 owen Yes
12:37 nengard oh - magnus told you :)
12:38 chris_n owen: any idea what RFC822 does with day of week and month abbreviations in languages other than english?
12:38 chris_n ie. Sun Mon... etc.
12:38 owen No clue!
12:39 chris_n well, I've added rfc822 to C4::Dates, but atm it only handles english dow, moy, abbrv's
12:39 * chris_n is not sure what to do to internationalize
12:42 slef chris_n: rfc2822 requires English - see section 3.3
12:42 chris_n slef: I wondered about that, thanks
12:42 owen Thanks slef, that's just what I was about to guess
12:42 slef why guess? It's written in the RFC :-)
12:43 chris_n owen: I have one fix to push up to my repo and then you can give it a whirl
12:43 * slef mutters something about library system developers looking up references ;-)
12:43 * owen was perusing the RFC just now :P
12:45 chris_n owen: this feature is available here: http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=wip/koha-fbc.git;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/RFC822_format
12:46 owen chris_n++
12:46 chris_n if it looks like it does what you want, I'll submit it for inclusion into 3.4, unless gmcharlt makes a dramatic exception for 3.2
12:46 chris_n atz++ # for looking over it to be sure I did not bust things too badly :-)
12:47 owen Thanks chris_n, the feature I'm hankering to use it for certainly won't be in 3.2
12:48 chris_n ok, if it works for you, maybe you can sign off on it and submit it for inclusion in 3.4
12:49 chris_n if/when you do, be sure to pickup the two perltidy patches as well or it will not apply nicely
12:51 owen Okay, thanks
12:55 * chris_n 's comments crash w/owen in bugzilla :-O
12:56 chris_n I wonder what that was all about...
12:58 chris_n owen: I added you to the cc list for bug 5218
12:58 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5218 enhancement, P5, ---, cnighswonger, ASSIGNED, Add RFC822 Date Formatting to C4::Dates
13:13 gmcharlt jcamins++
13:13 owen ?
13:14 gmcharlt http://www.cpbibliography.com/2010/09/pledge-to-the-koha-community/
13:16 magnus that's the spirit!
13:19 nengard jcamins++
13:31 kf jcamins++
13:43 slef nice to see others imitating http://www.software.coop/info/coopdev.html :-)
13:49 wasabi ... im gonna put that on my site too
13:50 jcamins My ears are burning.
13:50 jcamins Good morning, #koha
13:51 jcamins wasabi: any chance you could resend your patch to Bug 4289?
13:51 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4289 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, NEW, Add a syspref 'OpacNotPublic', to hide OPAC search-bar and force authentication on all OPAC pages
13:52 wasabi 10 mins...
13:54 jcamins Thanks!
14:01 kf jwagner: a belated happy birthday from me too :)
14:02 jcamins jwagner: oh, happy birthday!
14:02 jcamins Late.
14:14 jwagner Thanks kf and jcamins
14:16 wasabi jcamins: what are the new patching guidelines/rules?
14:16 wasabi "the patch attached to the bug does not have your commit message, so I cannot do that."
14:16 wasabi http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4289
14:16 munin 04Bug 4289: enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, oleonard, NEW, Add a syspref 'OpacNotPublic', to hide OPAC search-bar and force authentication on all OPAC pages
14:17 jcamins Oh, chris wants everything to be signed-off.
14:17 jcamins Which means I need the git patch.
14:18 pastebot "wasabi" at 203.97.99.222 pasted "zz" (31 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/61
14:18 wasabi i need to add that to the commit?
14:19 wasabi my commit description?
14:19 jcamins Yes please.
14:20 kf wasabi: it looks like your patch misses some lines at the top, compared to other patches:
14:20 kf http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=2195
14:20 wasabi ah, ok..
14:21 jcamins Oh, we need to ask someone about a version number for the database.
14:21 wasabi chris.c told me to leave that as 'X' , so i did...
14:22 jcamins Oh, okay.
14:22 nengard yeah, X is the norm and then the RM puts the right number in
14:22 jcamins Ah. That makes sense.
14:22 jcamins That was the only part of the patch that didn't apply cleanly to HEAD.
14:25 chris_n jcamins++
14:43 jcamins wasabi: thanks!
14:44 wasabi np, a loong 10 mins...
14:50 wasabi and there's the commit in my repo
14:50 wasabi http://git.kohaaloha.com/?p=koha/.git;a=commitdiff;h=8cec6d7efbe4b72a49f1aaee66d38cc3c3380a02
14:52 jcamins Ooh, I could just cherry-pick that, couldn't I?
14:52 wasabi l update my github repo 1st...
14:53 jcamins Thanks.
15:03 briceSanc Hello !
15:05 briceSanc Is there a debug function in Koha like "print" in order to show the content of a $var?
15:06 jcamins briceSanc: Hi. Can't you just use print?
15:06 ebegin briceSanc, you can use warn and the text will show in the logs
15:06 briceSanc jacamins, yes but the template erase the print
15:06 ebegin print will show in the output if you run your perl script from the command line
15:07 jcamins Oh, I was thinking about modifying command-line scripts. Of course you'd need something else for the web interface. Sorry about that. It's Monday. ;)
15:08 briceSanc ebegin, Thanks, i'm searching the log rep
15:08 ebegin /var/log/koha or <kohainstall>/var/log
15:16 wizzyrea @later tell slef please double check the support vendor pages when you have a chance. Thanks :)
15:16 munin wizzyrea: The operation succeeded.
15:17 jcamins sekjal: before I comment on your analytic record RFC, I have a question for you. Does the RFC require a parent->child link to be present? That could result in excessively large records.
15:19 sekjal jcamins: I was just talking to Savitra about this, but haven't gotten my ideas out beyond that thread
15:19 jcamins Okay.
15:19 sekjal I think there should be a concept of 'reciprocal relationships'
15:19 kf sekjal: our idea was to provice a search link
15:19 kf sekjal: and use some jquery magic to show the x first volumes directly in the record
15:20 sekjal that is, if you add a 773 point record A to record B, it will automatically add a 774 from B to A (for example)
15:20 kf parsed from the result page of the search link (not elegant... but my prototype works)
15:20 sekjal or you could turn off the reciprocal, and only have links in one direction
15:20 kf reciprocal will not work for us
15:21 kf we get our data from our union catalog - there is only a link in one direction there
15:21 kf as in marc21 standard
15:21 jcamins I think we'd really like what kf is describing... a virtual reciprocal link, if you will.
15:21 kf the union catalog data would overwrite those reciprocal links with every new import
15:22 kf jcamins: I think the problem with my solution is that you can't tell when to show the search link
15:22 kf it will show always - or perhaps you can hide it if the jquery gets no results
15:22 sekjal kf: hmmm, okay... would it help your solution to consult a table of relationships?
15:23 sekjal that way, if on record didn't relate to any other, you wouldn't have to invoke the jquery
15:23 jcamins We have one journal with 4176+ analytics, which would definitely put us way over the maximum record size limit.
15:24 sekjal I think we need to store the relationships outside of MARC, and make the insertion of MARC fields something configurable depending on library policies/practices/desires
15:25 jcamins Yeah, I like that idea.
15:25 sekjal I'm thinking the same would hold for MFHD support
15:30 kf sorry, afk now, will be back in a few minutes
15:30 slef wizzyrea: thanks. Other vendors will be happy (I switched ours to use entities and work around it).
15:56 kf sekjal: perhaps our problem is unique, not sure. for us the union catalog is the master database for the bibliographic records. If a record is changed, it's imported by a nightly import script and overwrites the record in koha.
15:56 kf sekjal: I am not sure how your table of relationships can be maintained.
15:56 kf if you are not cataloging in koha
15:57 jcamins Parse out 7xx fields?
15:58 kf the import scripts need to learn to do that
15:58 kf in that case
15:58 kf but as you said, the records will get too big
15:58 kf we have records for traced series too
15:59 jcamins Yeah, savitra (I think) wanted to add that feature to mulkmarcimport.
15:59 jcamins bulkmarcimport, even
15:59 kf I had not really time to read all the rfcs :(
15:59 kf will try to do tomorrow
15:59 * wizzyrea is more interested in hulkmarcimiport
16:00 * wizzyrea tee hee hee's
16:00 kf :)
16:00 * wizzyrea scurries away again
16:00 jcamins HULK IMPORT!
16:01 sekjal kf: we'd have to make the triggering of adding a new relationshop to the table be flexible
16:03 sekjal so, when a MARC record comes in with some field, the importer would either add, modify or remove the corresponding entry in the relationships table
16:03 sekjal depending on configs
16:03 jcamins What would the overhead on that be for kf?
16:04 jcamins (just throwing out whatever thoughts come to mind to clarify things for myself)
16:04 sekjal I suppose that would depend on what config options were avaialble
16:04 kf sekjal: we would need that as an option for the staged marc import
16:05 kf sekjal: we do matching by 001
16:05 sekjal kf: yes! so we'd add lines on what to do about analytics, just like there are options for what to do with items
16:05 kf I am not against a relationship table - but opposed to storing the information in the marc21 records
16:06 sekjal kf: would the information be coming in from the MARC initially?
16:06 kf are you only looking for analytics or other relationships too?
16:06 kf afaik the mother does not know her child records
16:07 jcamins I'm pretty sure MARC specifies that parent->child relationships are optional.
16:07 sekjal you'd configure whatever relationships you want in the system, and tie them to MARC if appropriate
16:08 kf jcamins: which fields do you use in the parent?
16:08 sekjal then the importer would look for relationships, and parse them as appropriate
16:08 kf we have a lot of relationships in our data and we need to make them show - it's a big problem now.
16:09 kf I started some work on $w relationships, but on a different level - just wanting to make them show
16:09 yhager I am trying to install koha - when I try to access myserver:8080, I get an error, and in the log it seems the db tables do not exist. Do I need to create them myself?
16:09 jcamins kf: you _can_ use 774, or 787, but I'm 99% sure that it's not required, or even recommended.
16:09 kf not thinking so much about import and cataloging, because that's not important to us
16:09 kf jcamins: I think it's not required
16:10 jcamins Yeah, here it is. Definitely not required.
16:10 jcamins http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd76x78x.html
16:10 jcamins About a third of the way down under "Component Parts/Constituent Units."
16:10 kf we have separate records a work as parent and it's volumes as separate records, traced series as records with relationships, serials with former/later etc., parallel title, a lot of relationhsops
16:11 kf relationships
16:11 kf electronic to print version
16:13 * jcamins wishes that his library's bibliographic database was as nice as kf's.
16:13 kf :)
16:13 kf the work of a lot of busy librarians
16:13 yhager should I run "mysql < kohastructure.sql"? it does not appear in the INSTALL file
16:15 kf jcamins: "This bibliographic database [SWB] references all kinds of media of more than 1000 libraries in Baden-Wuerttemberg, Saxony, Saarland, and Rhineland-Palatinate. It contains 47 million holding records for about 12 million titles of mainly scientific literature. These comprise 1.2 million holding records of 350.000 journals."
16:15 jcamins yhager: the installer should take care of that for you.
16:16 jcamins kf: And I am hugely jealous. ;)
16:16 kf ;)
16:21 yhager jcamins: I get "production mode - trapped fatal error" when trying to access the installer and lots of errors in the log related to non existing tables
16:21 jcamins Hm.
16:22 jcamins I don't really recall the steps for installing Koha. Perhaps someone else remembers?
16:23 yhager jcamins: which is the most suitable mailing list for this kind of question? the devel one?
16:23 sekjal yhager: did you create the koha database, and give your koha mysql account permissions on it?
16:23 yhager sekjal: yes
16:23 yhager I will double check
16:24 kf I think there were several posts about trapped fatal error already, try google first
16:25 yhager re db, it works when I access it using mysql cmd line, and I can create tables
16:27 wizzyrea http://old.nabble.com/production-mode---trapped-fatal-error-:-huh----td19272321.html
16:29 yhager I have CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml-4.26 installed
16:31 yhager wizzyrea: did you mean I should have 4.21?
16:35 wizzyrea no, I meant that if you didn't have CGI::Session::Serialize::yaml installed you might need to
16:50 owen Hi druthb
16:50 druthb hi, owen.
16:51 druthb :)
17:56 chris morning
17:56 jcamins Morning.
17:57 wizzyrea mornin
17:58 druthb hi, chris! :)
17:59 * druthb waves happily at wizzyrea.
17:59 wizzyrea hey druthb!
18:01 brendan morning
19:08 chris_n owen about?
19:08 owen Yes
19:09 chris_n I think we've found a bug in adding and deleting subfields
19:09 chris_n for example
19:10 chris_n I can add as many 505$t subfields as I like until I delete one of them
19:10 chris_n then the clone control ceases to work
19:10 chris_n can you confirm this by chance?
19:11 owen I've certainly seen similar bugs with cloning and deleting.
19:11 * owen will test
19:11 * owen needs a break from Drupal anyway
19:12 * chris_n hands owen a fresh cup of coffee and a donut as he sits down to Koha ;-)
19:15 owen Yeah, it looks like the delete control for all instances of $t (for instance) reference the original $t. clicking any of them will delete the original, and then you get an error because the original isn't there to delete anymore
19:15 chris_n so this is a js problem?
19:16 owen It's hard to separate the js from the script on this page because much of the js is generated by the script
19:16 owen But essentially yes it's a js problem
19:16 * chris_n groans... another marc editor mess
19:16 chris_n so I'll open a bug on it then
19:17 owen I think there may already be one. Did you search?
19:17 chris_n not yet, I will now
19:17 owen Bug 5141 is similar
19:17 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5141 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, Cannot duplicate subfields after duplicating a field
19:18 chris_n bug 4867 also
19:18 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4867 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, cannot clone subfields in marc editor, other clone/unclone weirdness
19:18 owen Yup
19:18 chris_n even bug 3264
19:18 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3264 normal, P5, ---, oleonard, NEW, UnCloneField() / minus button in MARC authorities editor can clear all subfields.
19:18 owen They all probably have the same root cause
19:19 chris_n *sigh*
19:19 owen I think cloning and deleting of tags/subfields needs to be re-written. Not only because it's buggy but because it's really slow too
19:19 chris_n and that is a subset of why the entire editor needs to be rewritten
19:19 owen I've tried a couple of times to get a good handle on the existing functionality, but I haven't succeeded.
19:20 chris_n some sort of ajax driven editor where only the tag you were currently looking at is loaded
19:20 chris_n others load dynamically, etc
19:20 chris_n so reducing the js load on the client side
19:21 * chris_n goes on dreaming
19:21 owen it's too bad the biblios editor was a dead end
19:21 jcamins chris_n: can I add my dream to yours?
19:21 owen Now that Google Gears is dead I don't know how you could begin to resurrect it
19:22 * chris_n invites jcamins in
19:22 jcamins The ability to reorganize fields and subfields!
19:22 owen (not that I know whether it's a better choice at all)
19:22 chris_n dare I say 'drag-n-drop'?
19:22 jcamins Yes!
19:23 chris_n owen: what about some of yui's more advanced stuff?
19:23 chris_n heya brandan
19:23 brendan heya chris_n
19:23 sekjal I'd like to see a new html5 based template, parallel to 'prog'
19:23 chris_n sekjal: cool idea
19:23 * owen has to hold his nose to use YUI at all...
19:24 owen It would be very useful to write up a spec for how the MARC editor *should* behave
19:24 chris_n sekjal: and wonderful for backward compatibility for those who don't like the change or can't make the leap
19:25 sekjal chris_n: yeah, we'd need to keep the old templates for compatibility, but the new html5-based one could be released at the same time as a more CSS3-based styling
19:25 jcamins owen: I know what *I* want, but I feel like it's probably not what other people would want.
19:26 owen jcamins: But the MARC standard defines things you *should* be able to do
19:26 chris_n we should begin an rfc for both a new templating system and a completely new marc editor
19:27 wizzyrea while you're doing that... add in customization of receipts :P
19:27 * chris_n welcomes wizzyrea to the dream session
19:28 * owen hands wizzyrea a brownie
19:28 sekjal I'd say we should fold receipts under Notices; then build Notices to be configurable in how they're delivered (email, print, sms, facebook, etc.)
19:28 sekjal with fallbacks in a user-configurable order per notice
19:28 * wizzyrea makes no apologies to wanting a templating system that is as pluggable as WordPress
19:28 * chris_n looks at his star tps700 still sitting on the shelf three months later
19:28 * wizzyrea gets distracted by the brownie
19:29 jcamins Facebook? That's an interesting way to send notices.
19:29 * wizzyrea thinks it would be epic to have a facebook app to tie into koha
19:30 wizzyrea much like twitter ties into facebook
19:30 wizzyrea or friendfeed
19:30 chris templates are all changing for 3.4
19:30 wizzyrea "Hey, your books are due in a couple of days!" in your news feed would get books back I think :)
19:30 chris_n hehe
19:30 chris To using template toolkit
19:30 jcamins Heh.
19:30 chris Seems a good opportunity
19:31 sekjal jcamins: if we coded with Facebook in mind, that's force us to be more flexible, and allow for lots of other kinds of connections, likely
19:31 chris_n TT++
19:31 owen wizzyrea: We should have it post overdue messages to all your friends' pages too so they can peer pressure you
19:31 wizzyrea ooh
19:31 wizzyrea "so and so didn't return their books.... send them a virtual handslap!"
19:31 chris_n sekjal, jcamins: some sort of connector library would be nice
19:31 chris The problem wp has is speed
19:32 chris Hence all the caching plugins
19:32 wizzyrea yes, it is slow, for sure.
19:32 jcamins Speed and integration. Our two problems. Speed, integration, and ubiquity, three...
19:32 jcamins Sorry.
19:32 jcamins It is *so* Monday.
19:32 chris You have to balance customisability vs performance
19:32 * wizzyrea still won't apologize for wanting it :D
19:33 wizzyrea ^.^
19:33 wizzyrea I didn't say it was *practical*
19:33 chris You just have to solve it, then we can :)
19:33 wizzyrea actually you bring up a good point about the caching
19:33 chris TT pre renders for speed
19:33 wizzyrea what if you had a pluggable system that ^^ did that
19:34 wizzyrea instead of every load
19:34 chris Yep
19:34 chris That's what we do with stuff
19:34 wizzyrea but in a way that your average techie librarian could get their heads around
19:35 chris Once we have tt there is a ton more we can do
19:36 * chris_n wonders if fridolyn somers' patch for bug 4867 ever made it in...
19:36 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4867 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, cannot clone subfields in marc editor, other clone/unclone weirdness
19:37 chris Ill look when I'm at work
19:38 chris Facebook connect is trivial
19:38 chris We could do that now
19:39 chris But I hate facebook so someone else will have to
19:39 * chris_n notes that patch did not make it in
19:39 chris_n I'll test it and send it along if it fixes things
19:39 chris I'm more interested in chilts adding openid support
19:40 chris Cool, sign off on it
19:42 * chris is on his sign off crusade still
19:45 jwagner chris, are the procedures that should be followed posted somewhere yet? In painful detail for those of us less literate with git?
19:46 chris Yeah on the wiki
19:48 chris Id look for the url, but would take too much mucking around on the phone
19:49 wizzyrea http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sign_off_on_patches
19:49 wizzyrea that one, chris?
19:49 chris Looks likely
19:50 chris Yeah that's it thanks
19:51 jwagner Thanks. I looked last week but didn't see anything.
19:51 chris_n well, that patch did not fix what I'm seeing :-(
19:51 chris_n jwagner: http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Sign_off_on_patches#Sign-off
19:52 chris Ok my stop coming up, bbiab
20:02 chris_n owen: I think I've found the problem
20:03 chris_n the script passes in a var 'random' which is presumably to cause each field to have a unique identifier
20:03 chris_n only each clone uses the same var 'random'
20:03 chris_n so they all reference the same field
20:03 owen So the clone function needs to have a built-in random var generator
20:04 chris_n that sounds easy.... maybe too easy
20:04 chris_n probably the CloneSubfield function needs the rnd generator
20:05 * chris_n is not a js hack :-(
20:05 chris back
20:09 chris that certainly sounds plausible to me chris_n
20:09 chris_n It looks like the CloneSubfield function does not do anything to the index attribute
20:09 owen Quitting time for me. See y'all tomorrow
20:09 chris_n which is the problem
20:09 chris_n bye owen
20:10 * chris_n is past quitting time..
20:10 chris_n but then that's the sign of an addict... right?
20:10 chris heh yup
20:11 chris_n it modifies the other unique attributes by adding a var 'new_key'
20:11 chris ahh
20:11 chris_n so maybe by having it do the same to index things will work
20:11 chris worth a crack
20:18 chris_n not
20:18 chris_n oh well
20:18 chris_n it will probably be here tomorrow
20:40 jcamins Good night, #koha
20:52 richard hiya russ
20:53 russ morning
21:13 wizzyrea bug 4879
21:13 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4879 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharlt, NEW, lint-like tool for Koha database contents
21:13 wizzyrea bug 4870
21:13 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4870 normal, P5, ---, kyle.m.hall, NEW, Damaged status does not prevent items from being selected for reserves
21:13 wizzyrea ew
22:04 chris weirdness on my connection today it seems
22:08 richard yeah, likewise
22:10 chris i suspect its telstraclear
22:12 richard http://www.bash.org/?168859
22:13 rhcl funny
22:14 yhager I think I know the installation problem I have - I found "Can't locate version/vpp.pm" in the log file..
23:33 chris hi brendan_l
23:35 brendan_l heya chris