Time Nick Message
08:55 magnus "Conditions: Smoke"? Sounds unpleasant?
08:56 magnus the bots are back in #koha
09:01 kmkale magnus: its always smokey in Mumbai. Way too many vehicles
09:01 magnus kmkale: ouch. You should have some of our wind
09:09 kf back
09:34 Irinie Hi
09:34 kmkale @seen jdavidb
09:34 munin kmkale: jdavidb was last seen in #koha 21 hours, 30 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: * jdavidb makes a note on the recipe card: "jwagner approves."
09:35 Irinie I want to ask about the latest version of koha, chris told me about 3.0.5. but the I found only Version 3.0.2 - June 04, 2009 on the koha site??
09:36 kmkale koha-community.org
09:37 hdl_laptop chris around ?
09:37 hdl_laptop hi kmkale
09:38 kmkale hi hdl_laptop
09:38 kf Irinie: koha-community.org is the new community web site, you can download 3.0.5 there
09:38 kf hi hdl_laptop
09:38 hdl_laptop hi kf
09:39 hdl_laptop how are you ?
09:39 Amit_G heya hdl_laptop
09:39 hdl_laptop hi Amit_G
09:39 kf hdl_laptop: fine with a long todo list :)
09:39 kf and you?
09:39 hdl_laptop hehe same for me.
09:40 Amit_G @seen chris
09:40 munin Amit_G: chris was last seen in #koha 56 minutes and 42 seconds ago: <chris> evening
09:40 hdl_laptop How was your presentation ?
09:40 hdl_laptop Have you had any feedback ?
09:44 chris yep hdl_laptop
09:53 chris http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/index.php/IRC_Meetings
09:53 chris ive been writing stuff on the new wiki
09:57 kmkale I am getting a git error on git.koha-community.org
09:57 kmkale git clone git://git.koha-community.org/pub/scm/koha.git kohaclone
09:57 kmkale Initialized empty Git repository in /home/kalibindia/kohaclone/.git/
09:57 kmkale fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly
09:57 kmkale fetch-pack from 'git://git.koha-community.org/pub/scm/koha.git' failed.
09:57 chris yeah thts not the url to use
09:58 kmkale but same command run against git.koha.org works
09:58 chris http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/index.php/Version_Control_Using_Git#Clone_the_Public_Repository
09:58 kmkale chris++
09:58 chris yes but its not in pub/scm on koha-community
10:00 kmkale OK. getting stuff now
10:02 chris cool
10:11 hdl_laptop chris : I wanted to know why you had chosen to do so when you did FCGI
10:12 hdl_laptop only to get a quick POC ?
10:12 chris i didnt use FCGI
10:12 chris i used FCGI::Async
10:13 chris because i wanted to see how it performed
10:14 hdl_laptop But you encapsulated CGI in FCGI, which is just relaying the problem.
10:14 chris the problem is apache
10:15 hdl_laptop problem is also CGI
10:15 chris cgi encapsulated by fcgi outperforms apache2 by a huge amount
10:16 chris plack is a lot faster still
10:16 chris 881 pages served in a minute
10:21 chris_n g'morning
10:23 chris_n nice wiki work chris
10:24 chris morning chris_n
10:29 chris hdl_laptop: i also fixed opac-detail.pl so it works with plack
10:30 hdl_laptop have you sent the patch ?
10:32 chris nope
10:32 chris it was changing the case to an if
10:39 chris_n @wunder 28334
10:39 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is -13.0�C (6:24 AM EDT on May 05, 2010). Conditions: Light Freezing Fog. Humidity: N/A%. Windchill: -13.0�C. Pressure: 29.98 in 1015 hPa (Rising). Dense fog advisory in effect until 9 am EDT this morning...
10:51 braedon|home @wunder auckland
10:51 munin braedon|home: The current temperature in Auckland, New Zealand is 9.0�C (10:00 PM NZST on May 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 6.0�C. Windchill: 9.0�C. Pressure: 30.48 in 1032 hPa (Steady).
11:22 Amit_G @wunder New Delhi
11:22 munin Amit_G: The current temperature in New Delhi, India is 41.0�C (4:30 PM IST on May 05, 2010). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 18%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 29.50 in 999 hPa (Falling).
11:25 Elwell Hi Folks, Long time since I lurked here - Stupid Q - Would koha be complete and utter overkill for ~5000 items in a record club? - probably in th eorder of a hundred or so active members
11:26 Elwell (cos the php script that is the database um, sucks :-)
11:37 gmcharlt morning
11:39 Amit_G heya galen
11:41 chris well i should go to sleep, next meeting in 7 hours
11:41 chris night all
11:52 chris_n g'morning gmcharlt
11:52 chris_n g'night chris
11:55 jdavidb kmkale: you were looking for me earlier?
12:22 owen Hi all
12:23 kf hi jdavidb
12:23 jwagner morning
12:23 kf hi owen and jwagner
12:23 jdavidb Howdy. :)
12:23 * jwagner is still ingesting caffiene
12:23 * jdavidb waves to kf and owen.
12:23 kf leaving ealry today and will miss the meeting
12:23 kf bye all !
12:42 schuster Howdy all! People I like to call friends.. and munnin...
12:43 chris_n heya schuster
12:43 chris_n and owen, jdavidb, and jwagner :)
12:43 schuster I'll ask - has anyone here played/implemented the sopac?
12:43 schuster question 2 - does anyone know any catalogs currently using it?
12:44 jdavidb Howdy, schuster and chris_n! :)
12:44 chris_n schuster: I think that biblibre might know answers to those questions iirc
12:45 owen I don't know but some of my patrons could use a soap-pac! *ba-dum bum*
12:50 schuster oh we are in rare form this morning... Someone must have taken that nap under their desk yesterday.... No wonder he disappeared for awhile...:)
12:50 kmkale chris_n: about that unicode label printing can we not do the labels with css?
12:52 chris_n kmkale: maybe, but I'm not css wizard ;-)
12:53 chris_n and I wonder about rendering variations across browser platforms in that case
12:53 kmkale chris_n: I know someone who used to work with the college earlier. He is good. I'l ask
12:53 chris_n owen: any comment on that?
12:54 chris_n kmkale: I'm for anything that improves the label/card capabilities in koha
12:54 owen chris_n: I don't think I understand the question
12:54 chris_n owen: if we went to formating labels for printing using css would there be issues with cross browser compatibility with the css?
12:55 chris_n ie labels print ok from one browser, but are messed up from another
12:55 owen Rather than through PDF generation?
12:55 * chris_n thinks the quick spine label code uses css
12:55 chris_n owen: right
12:55 chris_n to address the font/unicode/etc issues
12:56 owen There will *always* be cross-browser formatting issue, but I don't know to what extent we might expect it
12:56 owen I've never done CSS-for-print testing
12:56 kmkale chris_n it would atleast allow us to print in our languages.
12:56 chris_n kmkale: yup
12:57 kmkale I had done a college icard print job once with this friend i mentioned and it worked out well but of course we never did cross browser testing
12:58 kmkale i would be happy if i get something usable with firefox
12:58 chris_n kmkale: you might take a look at the quick spine label code
12:58 chris_n I'm almost sure it uses css formatting to produce an html page which is then printed
12:58 owen CSS allows you to specify measurements in points, so technically the spec is designed to handle print as well as screen
13:00 chris_n in theory the screen and print should be the same (72ppi), but in reality screens now run more ppi than that
13:01 chris_n kmkale: I'd be glad to help with that sort of thing if you conclude it is reasonably doable
13:01 kmkale but its controlable as its from the staff interface. let me try.. now that I can read perl ;) and know there are ppl like you who tolerate my bugging
13:01 chris_n I wrote the new labels/card modules so that it should be easy to add other export formats
13:02 chris_n ie. the final print screen can have csv, xml, pdf, css, foo, foobar, <your_choice_here>, etc.
13:03 chris_n we just have to write a module for css, foo, foobar, etc
13:03 kmkale chris_n: gotta run now but will look at it and ask your help tomorrow.
13:03 kmkale bye all
13:08 schuster On the "NEW" wiki - on the main page I was wondering if we should have a statement about GPL and everything there is GPL... for newbies or community looking at the site. Just so it is stated?
13:09 owen schuster: It does say so at the bottom in the fine print
13:10 owen "Content is available under GNU General Public License 2.0 or later"
13:10 owen It'd be nice if there was a more obvious statement on the "create account" page
13:10 schuster own - well it must be my eyes... yes it does say that in the footer... Thank you - guess that's what happens on your b-day.
13:12 chris_n ich!... python
13:12 * chris_n wishes schuster a happy b-day :)
13:13 schuster now if I could only figure out how to put a birthday hat on that emoticon...
13:14 owen Happy birthday schuster!
13:14 owen munin needs a plugin for wishing folks happy birthday
13:14 munin owen: Error: "needs" is not a valid command.
13:14 magnus "gratulerer med dagen", schuster
13:16 jdavidb Happy 29th birthday, schuster! :)
13:17 jwagner Happy birthday, schuster
13:18 chris_n hi Nate
13:18 Nate morning chris_n, jwagner
13:19 * jdavidb waves to Nate.
13:19 Nate hiya jdavidb!
13:36 jcamins Hello, #koha
14:16 moodaepo @wunder Mankato. MN
14:16 munin moodaepo: The current temperature in South on Monks, Mankato, Minnesota is 10.6�C (9:15 AM CDT on May 05, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: -2.0�C. Pressure: 29.67 in 1004.6 hPa (Steady). Wind Advisory in effect until 4 PM CDT this afternoon...
14:17 jdavidb @wunder 20817
14:17 munin jdavidb: The current temperature in Langley Fork Park, McLean, Virginia is 25.5�C (10:16 AM EDT on May 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 41%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 30.00 in 1015.8 hPa (Steady).
14:18 owen Whoa jdavidb, welcome to summer!
14:18 owen @wunder 45701
14:18 munin owen: The current temperature in Ohio University, Athens, Ohio is 21.1�C (10:16 AM EDT on May 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 50%. Dew Point: 10.0�C. Pressure: 29.81 in 1009.4 hPa (Rising).
14:19 jdavidb Definitely. We hit 90F over the weekend. Beastly hot and humid.
14:24 wizzyrea good morning
14:25 owen Hi wizzyrea
14:28 * owen is happy to see is number keypad works now after upgrading his Ubuntu VM
14:31 collum @wunder 41011
14:31 munin collum: The current temperature in Newport Aquarium, Newport, Kentucky is 24.2�C (10:30 AM EDT on May 05, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 42%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 29.88 in 1011.7 hPa (Falling).
14:44 chris_n @wunder 28334
14:44 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Erwin, North Carolina is -8.0�C (10:24 AM EDT on May 05, 2010). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: N/A%. Windchill: -11.0�C. Pressure: 30.02 in 1016 hPa (Steady).
14:44 * chris_n thinks the weather station is a bit off this morning
14:44 * owen is trying to decide on the fix for Bug 4416
14:44 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4416 normal, P5, ---, oleonard@myacpl.org, NEW, renew all and return all buttons too close together
14:44 owen Remove both "return all" AND "renew all" or just "return all?"
14:46 jwagner I think there's some value to having renew all, but no value to return all (so long as that bug exists that doesn't trigger holds etc.)
14:47 owen jwagner: Does that bug have a good-n-high severity?
14:48 jwagner Bug 3514 I think -- I did a workaround to turn off the returns column
14:48 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3514 enhancement, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Returning items through patron Details tab doesn't activate all circulation functions
14:49 jwagner I sent the patch in August, but it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere.
14:50 jwagner I've since updated that locally to turn off the returns column on both details and checkout tab (originally only did on details tab)
14:56 owen Even if that patch is accepted it won't be a real fix for that bug. We need the function to actually work!
14:57 owen ...I can see how handling multiple on-hold returns would be difficult. Maybe any multiple-return function should skip those cases and ask the user to handle them individually
14:57 jwagner owen, I know -- mine was a quick & dirty workaround, not a fix.
15:11 wizzyrea yea, 3514 is on NEKLS' list as well
15:13 wizzyrea what about adding a winnebago like function to returns
15:14 wizzyrea where you can scan a list of items
15:14 wizzyrea like, batch checkin
15:14 wizzyrea and check them all in
15:14 wizzyrea then print a list of exceptions
15:14 owen What's the advantage?
15:14 wizzyrea well the real problem, as we see it, of return all
15:15 wizzyrea is that staff don't verify that the stack of books is the same as the stack in front of you (unless you're being very fastidious)
15:15 wizzyrea normally, when you do this, you have an impatient patron waiting in front of you
15:15 wizzyrea so being fastidious isn't good customer service
15:15 wizzyrea because it makes them wait
15:15 wizzyrea with the batch checkin
15:16 wizzyrea you can scan scan scan
15:16 wizzyrea check in items, then print out the exceptions for the staff member to go back to
15:16 wizzyrea instead of making them process them with a line of impatient patrons waiting
15:16 wizzyrea s/them/items
15:17 wizzyrea it's just an idea
15:18 jwagner And to add an extra wrinkle, one of my sites uses their self-check machine for checkins -- pile everything on the reader (RFID) and let it go. That doesn't handle holds too well either....
15:18 wizzyrea we have the same problem with our chutes
15:18 wizzyrea though the sip stuff you should have now that we paid for should handle holds better
15:19 wizzyrea it's not perfect (local holds + sip = yikes) but it's better than it was before we put some $$ in
15:19 owen wizzyrea: I can maybe see the use case you describe. But I really don't see a reason for a "return all" function otherwise.
15:19 wizzyrea I'm just as happy to get rid of it on that screen
15:19 wizzyrea it makes more sense to renew all if you can
15:19 wizzyrea since likely you won't have those items in front of you
15:20 wizzyrea BUT an expedited batch checkin was a feature that was really good about winnebago
15:20 owen wizzyrea: Tell me more about the transaction
15:20 owen You scan them all in while the patron is standing there
15:20 owen And then wait for the report of any problems while they wait? Or no?
15:21 wizzyrea I was thinking that a "print exceptions" that outputs the exceptions to paper for later processing
15:21 wizzyrea so the stack stays at the library, you don't check in any books that aren't existent on the desk
15:22 wizzyrea (or that you haven't verified are existent in your stack)
15:22 wizzyrea I would actually be curious to ask my librarians about this
15:22 owen Why is there an issue with the patron having to wait? What are they waiting for?
15:22 wizzyrea because I know a lot of them liked the winnebago function
15:22 wizzyrea sometimes they want to watch you check in their items
15:23 wizzyrea people are weird
15:23 owen Maybe it just feels faster to scan,scan,scan and process?
15:23 wizzyrea I think that's true, to some extent.
15:23 wizzyrea I used winnebago, and I have to admit, sending one request to checkin a bunch of items was more satisfying than checkin -> wait
15:23 owen We have patrons who insist we check things in on the spot because we've missed checking in their items in the past
15:24 wizzyrea ^^
15:24 wizzyrea so if you were being fastidious with that stack of books, you would have to look at each one, verify that it was on their list, prior to hitting "return all"
15:24 wizzyrea as it stands currently
15:24 wizzyrea which takes time
15:25 * jwagner has dumb moment
15:25 jwagner Why not just use the existing Koha Circ, Checkin screen then?
15:25 wizzyrea dunno, I'm actually in favor of getting rid of the return all completely
15:25 owen I don't see how that fastidious process is any more efficient than checking them in one by one
15:25 * wizzyrea could imagine a scenario where a librarian has *gasp* two tabs open
15:25 owen ...and the latter is more accurate.
15:26 wizzyrea one with checkin and one with checkout
15:26 * wizzyrea wonders why more people don't do that anyway
15:27 gmcharlt owen: any chance I could sweettalk you into a doing a followup for 4208 - there are still a bunch of tmpl_ifs embedded in tags in various OPAC templates
15:28 jwagner If the issue is wanting to see the patron screen, have a separate tab/window open on the checkin screen, check everything in, then refresh the patron screen. Wouldn't that do the same thing of assuring the patron everything's clear?
15:28 gmcharlt mostly in syndetics contents links
15:28 wizzyrea I thought there was some drama re: syndetics links
15:30 owen gmcharlt: I'd be happy to
15:30 gmcharlt owen: thanks
15:30 owen Is there a way for me to test-run the translation script to detect the problems?
15:31 wizzyrea jwagner:
15:31 gmcharlt there is
15:31 gmcharlt prove xt/author/translatable-templates.t
15:31 wizzyrea what if you put in a library something like http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/usb-gadgets/c609/?cpg=froogle
15:31 wizzyrea and put the patron screen on that
15:31 wizzyrea maybe an alternative patron screen that autorefreshed
15:31 jwagner Now, let's not spoil the circ staff -- keep the cool gadgets for the systems people!!!
15:31 wizzyrea or even showed the receipt
15:32 * owen needs that for displaying his IRC window. Must maximize distraction.
15:32 wizzyrea at end of transaction
15:32 wizzyrea kind of like the grocery store
15:32 wizzyrea >.>
15:33 gmcharlt clearly we need a different default circ sound
15:33 gmcharlt e.g., http://www.wavsource.com/sfx/sfx.htm
15:33 gmcharlt rather, http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2010-05-02_1418412952466658/sfx/cash_register_x.wav
15:33 jwagner There is the item checkin message that can be emailed if the patron is configured. Maybe adapt that to a circ slip for checkins?
15:33 wizzyrea gmcharlt: hahahaha
15:34 jwagner gotta run, back online later.
15:34 wizzyrea I like this: http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2010-05-02_1418412952466658/sfx/arrow_x.wav
15:34 wizzyrea too long though
15:36 jcamins Has anyone ever encountered problems with Stage MARC Records for Import not working after 25 batches?
15:36 gmcharlt ... to use when the patron has overdues
15:37 * wizzyrea sort of remembers something about that from a long time ago
15:37 owen gmcharlt: Looks like most of the existing errors are similar to the ones I attempted to correct with the patch to opac-detail.tmpl. But jwagner reports that my patch broke syndetics content so I didn't plow on
15:40 DRUlm jcamins: nope not since Koha 3.0 Beta
15:40 DRUlm jcamins: we have loaded hundreds of times a-OK
15:41 brendan gmcharlt so are you doubling up all of your commits (one to git.koha and one to git.koha-c) ?
15:41 owen Anyone have some Syndetics credentials they could loan me for testing purposes?
15:41 gmcharlt brendan: yes
15:41 gmcharlt owen: yes
15:41 brendan thanks
15:43 jcamins DRUlm: I wish I knew what the problem was with this. It's driving me batty.
15:44 jcamins DRUlm: It's very odd... I can't import more than 6000 records at a time, and now it won't let me import another batch (problematic since I only go through 25/30).
15:44 jcamins Oh well. I guess I will try again. Maybe a restart.
15:45 jcamins DRUlm: Question: Are you using a Windows client?
15:45 DRUlm jcamins: Hmmmmm. Could it be a timeout for 6000 records? I have only loaded about 1000 this way - Yes, using Firefox 3.x in Windows
15:46 jcamins I hope I don't have to go down to batches of 1000. But I guess if that's the way it is, that's th eway it is. I'll give it a try. Just getting our data in would be a relief, at this point.
15:48 owen On opac-detail? that's what jwagner reported had been broken by my bug 4208 cleanup
15:48 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4208 blocker, P1, ---, chris@bigballofwax.co.nz, NEW, Many submit buttons are not translatable in 3.2
15:49 owen sorry, wrong tab
16:04 jcamins DRUlm: You were right. Completely randomly all the files I had left exceeded the maximum file size that my computer can handle.
16:05 wizzyrea nengard about?
16:06 owen wizzyrea: She's traveling today, haven't seen her in here
16:06 wizzyrea aha
16:06 wizzyrea I was going to ahve her look at the preliminary changes to the sql report library. Wikimedia table structure is a PITA
16:10 schuster jcamins - maybe your files are tooo large... use MARCEDIT to break them into smaller chuncks - or it could be that you have a record that it doesn't like because there are too many items attached to it pushing it beyond the 9999 limit.
16:11 jcamins schuster: It seems that the combination of my desktop and our server can't handle files above 4MB.
16:11 jcamins So I am now uploading in batches of 3000, rather than 6000, records.
16:11 schuster wizzyrea ++ report library... it needed a little tender loving care.
16:12 schuster I saw on the liblime list that there was a Koha limitation...
16:12 jcamins Okay, now it's just messing with me.
16:12 schuster That was the first I had heard of it so thought I would throw it out to you as it sounded similar.
16:13 wizzyrea maybe a LLEK limitation? due to cloud hosting?
16:13 owen schuster: "It's not our fault, it's Koha's fault" ?
16:13 jcamins Well, we're using Koha, so it's not LLEK per se.
16:14 DRUlm An an unrelated topic how is the security w/ Clouds. I have heard some mixed info from the black-hat crowd
16:14 wizzyrea same as any server, imo: if you don't secure it, it isn't secure.
16:14 jcamins However, we're using VirtualBox to host our catalog, and I'm convinced that's at the root of many of our problems.
16:14 wizzyrea AH
16:14 wizzyrea could be
16:15 gmcharlt agreed, that's a broad question, and really impossible to answer w/o looking at the specificies of any particular cloud hosting provider
16:15 schuster gmcharlt - is the content cafe done for us last year part of the community code? Just making sure I'm covered as we upgrade to 3.x in the near future.
16:16 DRUlm I use VMware for my test machine, and there is some strangeness with the MySQL response time. Zebra seems better, but it is probably an issue with how the MySQL server software is optimized, and something does not translate for speed when running virtual
16:16 gmcharlt schuster: no, doesn't look like it was submitted
16:16 schuster AH!
16:17 schuster hmmm guess I need to go back to PTFS on that. yikes glad I asked.
16:17 DRUlm Right, but with the cloud there can be a whole network interface where everything is sitting and you can have all the VMs essentially on the same LAN with open access between them. Also once root is obtained on the VMware host, then all the machines are owned
16:18 gmcharlt DRUlm: that is entirely dependent on how the provider manges their setup
16:18 wizzyrea ^^
16:18 wizzyrea so, the question is: do you trust your cloud provider to secure their boxen?
16:19 wizzyrea (a question only they could answer)
16:19 DRUlm Right, but with my understanding, security between the VMs is not cut and dry, there are certainly some new techniques that need to be used and not everybody is using them, and the rest can be a bit experimental - but given where you are coming from, OK, I will conceed that it is based on the provider
16:20 schuster seen jdavidb
16:20 wizzyrea @seen jdavidb
16:20 munin wizzyrea: jdavidb was last seen in #koha 2 hours and 47 seconds ago: <jdavidb> Definitely. We hit 90F over the weekend. Beastly hot and humid.
16:20 wizzyrea ;)
16:20 schuster thx
16:21 jcamins @seen kmkale
16:21 munin jcamins: kmkale was last seen in #koha 3 hours, 17 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <kmkale> bye all
16:21 DRUlm http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=p&tbs=nws%3A1&q=Virtualization+security&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=c50e4df695f60f3
16:21 DRUlm and also
16:21 DRUlm http://datacenterjournal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3557:gartner-server-virtualization-deployments-face-security-concerns&catid=37&Itemid=100212
16:22 DRUlm But don't take my word for it! :)
16:22 DRUlm Goot go!
16:22 * gmcharlt doesn't tend to look to Gartner whitepapers for much of anything, I'm afraid
16:23 wizzyrea ...and it still comes back to "ask your provider"
16:23 wizzyrea for true cloud stuff
16:23 wizzyrea now, I can see this being relevant in a self hosted virtualization environs, which I think is really what he was getting at
16:24 gmcharlt @later tell jwagner Syndetics support is now working in HEAD again
16:24 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
16:24 * wizzyrea cheers
16:25 schuster @later tell jdavidb to contact David Schuster about content cafe
16:25 munin schuster: The operation succeeded.
16:26 schuster We just realized that we can use the news feature to Highlight and schedule those highlights for databases to the pac account! Even to use a database widget! WAY COOL!
16:27 wizzyrea gmcharlt re: bug 4445, did chris ever send the patch to up the OCLC limits? and will that go into 3.2?
16:27 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4445 trivial, P5, ---, paul.poulain@biblibre.com, NEW, OCLCAffiliateID Needs to have preference text changed to reflect change in the service
16:27 wizzyrea I was about to submit the pref text change
16:28 schuster wizzyrea - are you all using the XISBN service from OCLC?
16:28 wizzyrea they kind of go together
16:28 gmcharlt wizzyrea: looks like not
16:28 wizzyrea no, but the limit has been increased
16:28 schuster I'm still trying to figure out how to make that work... :)
16:29 rhcl_away schuster: was this your content cafe reference above? http://www.ebscohost.com/thisTopic.php?topicID=64&marketID=6
16:30 wizzyrea gmcharlt: not submitted or not in 3.2?
16:30 gmcharlt not submitted
16:30 wizzyrea okies
16:30 gmcharlt @later tell chris git-daemon for git.workbuffer.org doesn't seem to be running
16:30 munin gmcharlt: The operation succeeded.
16:30 wizzyrea I'm going to go ahead and submit the text changes on the assumption that he's going to submit it
16:31 wizzyrea or would that be wrong?
16:31 gmcharlt it's fine
16:31 wizzyrea kool
16:31 gmcharlt I would have cherry-picked it now, but ^^
16:33 schuster For 3.2 is there a recommended Firefox version? I know they have new ones all the time, but I have to start planning now to be ready 4 months from now...
16:34 schuster because I'm on FF 3.01 currently and I am sure there have been many releases since... and it was a chore to get to this level.
16:34 schuster 3.011 sorry.
16:35 wizzyrea sweet
16:36 schuster for example circ sounds are really important and I have heard that is an HTML 5 version thing... Want to make sure my browsers work right.
16:37 schuster hmmm looks like maybe FF 3.5 started to support html5.
16:47 chris_n wb thc
16:47 chris_n thd eve
16:47 * chris_n cannot type atm :-P
16:56 jcamins Just to check, I should still report bugs on bugs.koha.org, right?
16:56 wizzyrea for now, yea
17:30 jcamins Has anyone encountered issues with Stage MARC for Import on a heavily loaded system?
17:31 DRUlm What is the agenda of the meeting today?
17:34 schuster Thanks for the reminder drulm!
17:34 gmcharlt DRUlm: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes10may05
17:36 thd chris_n: eve?
17:36 jcamins For anyone wondering, the behavior of Stage MARC Records for Import is completely unpredictable when running the system under Virtual Box on a machine running on a heavily-loaded Mac mini.
17:37 thd chris_n: what part of the world are you in?
17:38 alreadygone hi, can anyone guide me through the process on installing Koha on Slackware 13?
17:39 DRUlm Thank you.
17:40 DRUlm Testing the 3.2 alpha 2 release now
17:40 chris_n thd: the part that cannot spell apparently ;)
17:42 jcamins For anyone who comes across this log trying to understand why Stage MARC Records for Import is failing: please just assume that every single diagnosis I've come up with is wrong.
17:43 gmcharlt Colin: when you have a moment, can you advise if the issue you found for bug 1532 is resolved?
17:43 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1532 blocker, PATCH-Sent, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, ASSIGNED, Port dev_week holds enhancements to 3.0
17:45 Colin taking a look
17:48 Colin gmcharlt:Yes that fixes the holds removal
18:01 hdl_laptop schuster: around ?
18:02 hdl_laptop just to answer your question about sopac
18:03 hdl_laptop schuster: yes, biblibre implemented sopac working with koha
18:03 hdl_laptop we implemented ILS-DI at this occasion
18:05 hdl_laptop owen : i wrote a multiple onhold returns
18:06 * hdl_laptop catching up the logs
18:06 wizzyrea :D figured
18:15 hdl_laptop sorry guys
18:22 chris gmcharlt: better url for the meeting http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/index.php/Meetingnotes10may05
18:23 hdl_laptop strange to see the index.php
18:24 chris and yesterday http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/index.php/Meetingnotes10may04
18:24 hdl_laptop But k
18:25 wizzyrea was anyone able to get kmkale's patch to apply? mine keeps saying invalid patch at line 30
18:25 wizzyrea (the fine receipt thing)
18:26 hdl_laptop chris: link to how to get listed is pointing to koha.org
18:26 wizzyrea yes, those are the rules we want to discuss
18:26 wizzyrea since they are the current rules
18:26 wizzyrea do we want to change them? How?
18:26 wizzyrea (it's my agenda item)
18:27 hdl_laptop We're sorry, but that page doesn't exist
18:27 wizzyrea oh cool
18:27 wizzyrea lol
18:27 hdl_laptop title is just.... misleading
18:27 wizzyrea well it was there not 3 days ago
18:27 wizzyrea http://koha.org/support/pay-for-support/how-to-get-listed/
18:27 hdl_laptop you have two pages
18:28 hdl_laptop how to get listed
18:29 hdl_laptop and koha-support-companies/how-to
18:30 wizzyrea hdl_laptop: I guess I"m not understanding
18:31 wizzyrea links?
18:31 hdl_laptop there is a | at the end of the link
18:31 * wizzyrea has a wicked headache and so may not be too smrt.
18:31 wizzyrea oh, refresh,
18:31 wizzyrea I corrected the link on the wiki
18:32 wizzyrea it should be right now
18:32 hdl_laptop k
18:32 hdl_laptop good
18:32 wizzyrea I thought you meant k-c.org
18:32 wizzyrea I made a "whaa?" face
18:33 wizzyrea I think it was right on the old wiki, but when it got moved the URL wasn't corrected
18:33 wizzyrea doku -> mediawiki is not always graceful
18:33 hdl_laptop I thought the link was meant to point to koha-community.org
18:33 wizzyrea nope
18:33 hdl_laptop this was the purpose of my question
18:34 liw lwn.net is going to have an article about Koha / PTFS in its next weekly issue; in a week or two it will be freely readable, right now it is behind a paywall
18:34 wizzyrea I'm looking to make sure that we 1. agree on the rules 2. if these are the current rules, that they are what we want 3. if not, what should they be
18:34 wizzyrea and then I will post them on k-c.org
18:34 hdl_laptop k
18:35 wizzyrea swap 1 and 2, lol
18:35 wizzyrea rather, make that an unordered list
18:35 hdl_laptop hehe
18:35 * wizzyrea is all in a muddle
18:36 * chris_n hands wizzyrea some advil
18:36 wizzyrea thanks
18:37 wizzyrea I think actually that the meds are starting to kick in. Stupid pollen.
18:38 * chris_n gets terrible migraines and so can empathize :-(
18:39 wizzyrea can I ask you all to apply a few of your considerable brain cycles to this question (and you don't have to answer now... you can PM me or whatever): I want to do a section for "Get Involved" on the website
18:40 chris_n hello mbreeding
18:40 wizzyrea and I want to have For Users, For Librarians, and For Developers
18:40 wizzyrea For Developers is already in the works
18:40 wizzyrea so I'm thinking about the For Users, and For Librarians
18:41 liw http://www.producingoss.com/ would probably be good reading for Koha people, btw
18:41 wizzyrea How do we want to encourage those members of our community to get involved (assuming that users/librarians have separate methods of getting involved based on their skillsets)
18:42 chris gmcharlt: can you try a fetch from git.workbuffer.org now please?
18:42 wizzyrea (meaning, of course you can have user/developers and librarian/developers, and librarian/users, but they don't all participate in the same way)
18:42 liw I suck at getting people involved but... would it help to have clear lists of tasks that need doing?
18:42 hdl_laptop translations, xslts, reports, docs
18:43 hdl_laptop specifications
18:43 wizzyrea hdl_laptop: ooh good ideas
18:43 liw bug reports!
18:43 hdl_laptop discussing RFCs could also be nice
18:43 hdl_laptop bugreports++++
18:43 mbreeding hello cris_n
18:43 chris_n RFCs++
18:44 jcamins As a librarian (and speaking for my boss, another librarian), I think it would be really helpful to have advice on how to submit RFPs.
18:45 liw is there a page somewhere explaining how the community has organized itself? how development is structured, how decisions are made, where discussions happen, etc?
18:45 wizzyrea I suppose I should just combine users/librarians, since they are normally the same
18:45 wizzyrea http://koha-community.org/koha-project-organization/
18:45 gmcharlt chris: can fetch now
18:45 liw wizzyrea, cool, thanks (I am such a newbie...)
18:46 jcamins (i.e., we want to throw money at some problems, rather than try to deal with those problems ourselves, and it would be helpful if it were more clear what the procedure was for open RFPs)
18:46 wizzyrea liw: np
18:46 wizzyrea jcamins: http://koha-community.org/about/enhancing-koha/
18:46 wizzyrea that is still evolving
18:47 * chris_n thinks the inertial is really building with the new community resources :)
18:47 jcamins wizzyrea: Thanks. I don't know how I never ran into that page.
18:48 wizzyrea i'ts new in the last few weeks
18:48 wizzyrea :)
18:48 chris gmcharlt: excellent :)
18:48 jcamins Ah, that would be why.
18:48 Sharon wizzyrea has been busy
18:48 wizzyrea a good poke around koha-community.org is probably in order for most folks here ;)
18:48 * wizzyrea *has* been busy
18:49 wizzyrea afk 5
18:49 Sharon is always busy...
18:52 chris morning robin-home
18:54 robin-home Hi Chris. Other good thing about IRC: when I fall asleep half watt through, no one will know.
18:54 * owen is getting a mysterious error from "prove xt/author/translatable-templates.t" regarding circulation.tmpl
18:54 cait hi #koha
18:54 cait :)
18:54 chris hiya cait
18:55 chris_n hi cait
18:55 cait hi chris and chris_n
18:56 brendan how long until meeting time?
18:56 chris 9 minutes
18:56 chris actually 4
18:56 chris my clock is slow
18:56 liw quick summary of the lwn article: Koha's history, Liblime's actions in mid-2009, PTFS's actions recently, some analysis, suggesting other projects get their trademarks and domains in order
18:56 brendan that was a fast five minutes
18:57 chris_n liw: lwn article?
18:58 moodaepo liw++ # for the reading
18:58 * chris_n had to look twice to recognize lars
18:58 chris http://lwn.net/
18:58 liw chris_n, lwn.net has an article on Koha/PTFS, currently behind a paywall, free for all in a week (or two? I can never remember)
18:58 liw oh, yeah
18:59 wizzyrea larsw: oh that's you
18:59 chris_n hi nengard, vickiteal
18:59 nengard hi
19:00 vickiteal Hi!
19:00 gmcharlt how quickly 19:00 UTC+0 creeps up
19:00 chris_n lol
19:01 gmcharlt agenda for this meeting is http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/index.php/Meetingnotes10may05
19:01 gmcharlt let's get started with intros
19:01 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, 3.2 RM, Equinox
19:01 * wizzyrea = Liz Rea, Northeast Kansas Library System
19:02 Sharon Sharon Moreland, Northeast Kansas Library System
19:02 * reed Reed Wade, Catalyst IT, NZ
19:02 * sekjal is Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions
19:02 * magnus Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
19:02 * hdl_laptop Henri-Damien LAURENT, 3.0 release maintainer, BibLibre
19:02 Colin = Colin Campbell, PTFS-Europe Ltd
19:02 * larsw = Lars Wirzenius, Catalyst IT NZ, currently working on Koha Debian packages
19:02 * nengard Nicole Engard, ByWater Solutions/Koha Doc Manager
19:02 * owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library
19:02 * chris_n = Chris Nighswonger, 3.2 Release Maintainer, FBC
19:02 brendan Brendan Gallagher ByWater Solutions
19:02 vokalr vokalr = Richard Pritsky, vokal
19:02 ccurry Christopher Curry, American Philosophical Society
19:02 vickiteal Vicki Teal Lovely, South Central Library System, Madison, WI, US
19:02 * jcamins = Jared Camins-Esakov, American Numismatic Society
19:02 ebegin Eric Bégin, inLibro, CANADA
19:02 tajoli tajoli = Zeno Tajoli - CILEA (Italy)
19:02 * cait Katrin Fischer, Germany
19:03 robin-home Robin Sheat, Catalyst IT
19:03 johnindy John Long Independence Public Library member of SEKLS
19:03 chris Chris Cormack, Catalyst IT
19:04 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:04 fredericd Frédéric Demians, Tamil
19:05 gmcharlt ok, first agenda item is
19:05 gmcharlt Update on Roadmap to 3.2.
19:06 gmcharlt 3.2 alpha2 has been released
19:06 chris yay!!
19:06 gmcharlt goal for getting to beta is addressing the blockers
19:06 * owen cheers
19:06 chris_n gmcharlt++
19:06 gmcharlt a partial string freeze is in effect
19:06 chris i will update the .po files and send a message to the translate list
19:06 gmcharlt and chris and I will start pushing post-3.2 to topic branches
19:06 rhcl Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library
19:07 chris ill coordinate with Colin as well, he may like to start doing QA on the topic branches
19:07 chris (thats more a 3.4 thing tho, so ignore me)
19:08 gmcharlt goal at this point is to keep 3.2 in alpha2 no longer than necessary to get the blockers closed
19:08 brendan how many current blockers are there ?
19:08 gmcharlt 22
19:09 DRUlm 3.2 alpha is looking very good compared to 3.0 'alpha'
19:09 DRUlm YuGo!
19:10 gmcharlt questions?
19:11 gmcharlt if not, we'll move on to 2. Update on Roadmap to 3.0.
19:11 schuster david schuster plano isd
19:11 magnus what's the correct bugzilla-link for seeing the current bugs? i never feel confident i've got the right one...
19:11 brendan I think that sending the link to the koha-devel would be a good idea
19:12 hdl_laptop 3.0 bug fix haas been stalled for a while.
19:12 nengard magnus i think we're still at bugs.koha.org
19:12 hdl_laptop But next release should come quickly
19:12 chilts Andrew Chilton, Catalyst IT (late again) :)
19:12 chris magnus: if people all register, then we can shift to bugs.koha-community.org
19:13 magnus nengard: yup, but is this the curent picture?
19:13 magnus http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/report.cgi?bug_file_loc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_id=&bugidtype=include&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cumulate=1&deadlinefrom=&deadlineto=&email1=&email2=&emailassigned_to1=1&emailassigned_to2=1&emailcc2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailtype1=substring&emailtype2=substring&field0-0-0=noop&long_desc=&long_desc_type=substring&short_desc=&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=&
19:13 magnus n=rel_3_2&votes=&x_axis_field=bug_severity&y_axis_field=bug_status&z_axis_field=&width=500&height=350&action=wrap&format=table
19:13 magnus i only see 4 blockers there?
19:13 chris yeah, you might want a tinyurl.com for that :)
19:13 gmcharlt magnus: I count *all* active bugs that are blockers
19:13 magnus oops, sorry
19:13 wizzyrea http://tinyurl.com/2vbqnzy
19:14 wizzyrea is what I usually go by
19:14 schuster I always wonder what I should go stand by when it says that...
19:14 wizzyrea which admittedly is a horrific list
19:14 wizzyrea lol
19:15 wizzyrea (and, fwiw, you can get to that link anytime by going to http://koha-community.org/support/search-bugs/)
19:15 cait are we sure all blockers are marked as blockers?
19:15 chris thats certainly something people can help with cait
19:16 gmcharlt cait: reasonably sure
19:16 cait Im struggling a bit with severity when reporting bugs
19:16 wizzyrea ^^ I have the same problem
19:16 tomascohen magnus: blockers = NEW + ASSIGNED + VERIFIED
19:16 cait what about bug 44
19:16 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=44 normal, P2, ---, tonnesen@cmsd.bc.ca, RESOLVED FIXED, scripts dir doesn't get installed to $kohadir
19:16 cait bug 4400
19:16 cait sorry
19:16 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4400 normal, P5, ---, oleonard@myacpl.org, NEW, BIBTEX export from OPAC results in empty file
19:17 magnus wizzyrea: ill just bookmark that page on k-c, thanks! ;-)
19:17 chris yep, i wouldnt count that as a blocker
19:17 gmcharlt cait: not a blocker - bibtex is not *that* important in the grand scheme of things
19:17 tomascohen "Patron passwords saved in plain text"
19:18 cait ok
19:18 chris what?
19:19 gmcharlt umm, I suggest that this is not the appropriate time to discuss specific bugs - if you think something ought to be a blocker, say so in the bugzilla
19:19 gmcharlt we can also hold another bug squashing session if people want
19:19 wizzyrea bug_squashing++
19:19 wizzyrea let's schedule it
19:19 gmcharlt getting back to agenda, hdl_laptop, do you have a timefrmae for release of 3.0.6?
19:19 hdl_laptop I think in the next 2 weeks
19:20 gmcharlt cool, thanks
19:20 gmcharlt next item - followup from action items from 4/7 meeting
19:20 hdl_laptop Then I will try to add some bug fixes done for 3.2 back into 3.0
19:20 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: umm, are there any big issues that would necessitate a 3.0.7?
19:21 hdl_laptop I donot think so.
19:21 hdl_laptop not on 3.0
19:22 gmcharlt ok
19:22 gmcharlt hopefully we can hold the line on that if no secrity bugs crop up in the 3.0.x line
19:22 chris sounds good to me
19:23 gmcharlt since I'm not hearing much clamor to discuss 4/7 meeting stuff
19:23 gmcharlt let's move on to
19:23 gmcharlt 4. Discuss switching licensing for all new code submissions to Affero General Public License (AGPL)
19:24 thd We have a dependency problem to resolve before we can discuss that properly.
19:24 gmcharlt thd: namely?
19:24 thd MySQL had switched its license to GPL 2 only during the GPLv3 drafting process.
19:25 chris im not sure that matters
19:25 thd My information is that it does matter unless we abstract the database.
19:25 gmcharlt state your sources, then
19:25 chris_n thd: why would it matter?
19:26 thd I have not put the question formally.
19:26 chris we don't interface with mysql at all, its done through DBI, and DBD
19:26 larsw is this about the "shared linking versus static linking" controversy?
19:26 thd chris_n GPL 2 only as opposed to GPL 2 or later is incompatible with AGPL 3.
19:26 chris_n thd: I meant why would running over mysql have anything to do with koha's license?
19:27 chris yes
19:27 chris_n the two are independent at a code level
19:27 thd larsw: this is about what constitutes a derived work. The type of linking should not matter.
19:27 chris i dont think anyone in their right mind could say koha is a derived work of mysql
19:27 robin-home I think it would only matter if you used libmysql or whatever it is.
19:27 chris_n koha is not a derived work of mysql
19:27 chris or vice versa
19:27 larsw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPL#Linking_and_derived_works
19:28 thd chris_n: we have MySQL specific calls in the database and if you take MySQL away Koha does not function.
19:28 chris i dispute that
19:28 thd larsw I would not trust the wikipedia answer to a legal question
19:28 larsw doesn't Koha have a postgresql binding, too?
19:28 thd Please do not mistake me, I am all for AGPL 3.
19:29 larsw thd, I meant the link as background information, for those who haven't heard of this issue before, not legal advice
19:29 chris there are no mysql specific calls
19:29 chris_n thd: I think we are straining to swallow a gnat here
19:29 thd However, I think that we should pursue it in consultation with lawyers who understand the issue well.
19:29 * chris_n thinks we rip out the mysql specific calls (if any exist)
19:30 reed +1
19:30 thd We cannot have a proper discussion of the issue without slef who has some principled objections to which I have answers.
19:30 chris_n most of the sql is ansi anywhat iirc
19:30 chris_n anyway, even
19:30 larsw personal opinion: if there is a tight linkage with MySQL in Koha, that's a bug and should be fixed; it is not a stumbling block for switching AGPLv3
19:30 chris using an api is not making something a dervied work
19:30 chris in any uninverse
19:30 thd chris_n: If we change most to all then we are safe.
19:31 thd chris_n: The problem is that the MySQL issue is well known.
19:31 chris_n thd: can you point out an example of a mysql specific call
19:31 owen I would like to include slef in this discussion as well
19:31 chris_n in koha that is
19:31 gmcharlt is slef present at this meeting?
19:31 thd chris_n: any reference to INNODB is MySQL specific.
19:31 chris i think the first step would be to use the or later clause we have, to switch to gplv3
19:32 thd know and we need to here him out about this issue
19:32 thd s/know/no/
19:32 chris_n so we probably need to take this discussion to the list
19:32 larsw it's not all that late in the UK; can someone call slef up and invite him to the meeting?
19:33 thd Precisely, because his objections are well known we should ensure that we have his participation.
19:33 larsw discussing this on the list(s) is probably a good idea anyway, but shouldn't prevent us from starting a discussion now
19:34 chris larsw++
19:34 thd Answering his objections in his absence would be unfair to the attention to which slef has given to the matter.
19:34 chris_n right, discussion today does not imply conclusion today
19:34 chris i would like to reframe the discussion
19:34 chris_n thd: answering an objection is not the only part of discussion, however
19:34 chris to first should we move to gplv3
19:35 thd The problem for MySQL is the same.
19:35 larsw as the newbie I ask: what is the current policy on copyright licensing in Koha?
19:35 chris then we already have the problem thd
19:35 chris as its gplv2 or later already
19:35 larsw chris, I don't think that is correct: gplv2+ can link to gplv2-only without problems
19:35 thd larsw: Currently, as chris said which was decided by Katipo at the outset.
19:36 chris what?
19:36 thd larsw: If you undermine the linking argument about derived works then you undermine the effect of the license.
19:36 Colin MySQL allows gplv3 under the foss exception clause of the sun license
19:37 chris thank you Colin
19:37 thd Colin: what is your source for that?
19:37 thd Colin: do you have a link?
19:37 Colin http://www.mysql.com/about/legal/licensing/foss-exception/
19:38 thd Colin: that exception is for client libraries only
19:38 thd Colin: I think that does not apply
19:38 thd I had forgotten about that exception at the moment.
19:39 thd The question should be put to the SFLC which understands the licenses well and would be in the best position to defend the license should we ever need that defence.
19:40 larsw is the mysql issue relevant to a discussion whether we want to move from "GPLv2 or later" to "GPLv3 or later" or "AGPLv3 or later"? if we want to move, it's one of the things that may need to be fixed, but that's an implementation detail only, in my humble opinion
19:40 chris larsw++
19:40 chris deciding intent is more important
19:40 thd larsw: Want to is different from how to, yes.
19:40 * chris_n nominates thd to check in with SFLC and report back
19:40 thd larsw++
19:41 thd I have withheld public comment on this issue when it has come up to avoid an unnecessary argument with slef.
19:41 chris does thd have time to do that?
19:41 thd Yes I do
19:42 thd Asking is simple
19:42 gmcharlt thanks
19:42 thd I also have a thorough treatment of the issue waiting to post.
19:42 gmcharlt I suggest that we resume this discussion on koha-devel
19:42 thd s/issue/intent issue/
19:42 larsw before we switch topics...
19:43 gmcharlt and (since he re-proposed it) ask chris_n to kick that off
19:43 larsw I'd be interested in a quick show of hands for/against/neutral on the issue of intending a switch go agplv3
19:43 * chris_n will do that
19:43 thd agplv3+
19:43 tajoli OK on affero
19:43 robin-home For
19:43 rhcl neutral
19:43 nengard neutral
19:43 * owen neutral for lack of info
19:43 chris_n for
19:43 magnus neutral
19:43 wizzyrea neutral, same as owen
19:43 Colin For
19:44 chris for
19:44 gmcharlt for
19:44 hdl_laptop For
19:44 chilts for
19:44 reed for
19:44 Sharon neutral
19:44 larsw for agplv3+
19:44 vokalr neutral
19:44 jcamins neutral
19:44 brendan for
19:44 vickiteal neutral, uninformed
19:44 sekjal neutral
19:45 gmcharlt ok, thanks - moving on (unless larsw had a comment to make as a result of the straw poll)
19:45 gmcharlt 5. Discuss currently listed rules for becoming listed as a support company on the website
19:45 larsw 10 for, 10 neutral, 0 against -- this was not a vote to decide, but it's clearly for a change; thanks, my curiosity is satisifed
19:46 owen slef's got some convincing to do if he is indeed the lone dissenting voter
19:46 cait neutral, dont know enough abot licences
19:46 gmcharlt viz, http://koha.org/support/pay-for-support/how-to-get-listed
19:46 gmcharlt wizzyrea, I believe that that was your agenda item
19:46 ccurry neutral
19:46 wizzyrea indeed
19:46 wizzyrea So we have these rules
19:47 wizzyrea can someone enlighten me as to 1. who made them 2. do we still want them
19:47 wizzyrea 3. if not, what do we want?
19:47 wizzyrea (or do we want any rules re: listing as support vendor on official site at all)
19:47 brendan I think we make new ones for the new subdomains and new website
19:48 wizzyrea I ask because I would like to know what I need to do to add companies to the list :)
19:48 schuster foir
19:48 brendan anyone who has a koha*.* domain is more that welcome to forward that to koha-community.org
19:48 wizzyrea *koha*.* even :)
19:48 chris i propose new support companies email the main koha list
19:48 jwagner Sorry, been off in a meeting
19:48 wizzyrea wb jwagner
19:49 wizzyrea meeting time :)
19:49 gmcharlt given the controversy that these rules have provoked, I suggest a very simple set of criteria
19:49 chris and barring people objecting they get listed
19:49 brendan +1
19:49 gmcharlt 1. support company proposes via list (or perhaps form on the webiste)
19:49 brendan objects should be public too
19:49 brendan s/objects/objections
19:49 gmcharlt 2. they get accepted if it is a legitamate proffer of Koha services
19:49 chris likng it so far
19:49 chris_n +1
19:49 wizzyrea do you want to require at least one demonstrable instance of a running koha install?
19:49 larsw chris, does everyone have a veto? if not, and there is controversy about someone, who gets final word in the decision?
19:50 nengard the majority
19:50 nengard makes the most sense
19:50 gmcharlt 3. entries can be removed or disallowed if they are spam, i.e., irrelevant to Koha services
19:50 reed ? require them to submit at least one patch
19:50 chris_n interesting
19:50 nengard reed i would like to see some sort of participation from them
19:50 wizzyrea reed: I personally don't want to go there
19:50 gmcharlt 4. we keep issues of trademarks, copyrights, out of this
19:50 wizzyrea but that's just me
19:50 chris_n but what about some who may only support not develop
19:51 chris i dont think thats a prerwq
19:51 thd gmcharlt: do you have a 4 not that there should be one?
19:51 chris yeah
19:51 thd oops
19:51 nengard not necessarily a patch, but some display of community and participation
19:51 robin-home No, that makes it hard for eg training companies
19:51 gmcharlt i.e., boil the list down to one question: does the vendor offer Koha services of any kind
19:51 chris +1
19:51 magnus +1
19:51 Colin +1
19:51 vokalr +1
19:51 chris_n +1
19:51 reed +1
19:51 larsw gmcharlt, I propose that vendors no longer actively offering Koha services be dropped occasionally
19:52 larsw but other than that, +1
19:52 wizzyrea larsw: that seems fair
19:52 chris_n maybe a yearly polll
19:52 gmcharlt larsw: yes, I think that is reasonable, and could be view as a logical consequence of point #2 (legit proffer of Koha services)
19:52 wizzyrea so we are not going to require following the community guidelines?
19:52 thd nengard: the trouble comes from how you measure participation which has been used in an unnecessarily exclusionary way in one unfortunate case.
19:52 thd +1
19:52 wizzyrea (just to be clear)
19:52 brendan maybe just clean the list right now and all resubmit ?
19:52 hdl_laptop how could you know that the company is not offering koha services ?
19:52 chris what community guidelines?
19:52 wizzyrea http://koha.org/support/pay-for-support/how-to-get-listed
19:52 wizzyrea step 1
19:52 thd hdl_laptop++
19:53 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: well, somebody taking it upon themselves to check their website and/or ask
19:53 reed so, its 'must offer koha services' but the 'you are cool' test is dropped
19:53 chris_n lol
19:53 chris oh yeah, naw, trash those and just go for 1 rule, must offer koha services
19:53 Colin Check at the contact they give... that should deal with ones that cease to exist
19:53 wizzyrea cool. I thought this would be more contentious. :)
19:53 gmcharlt and I guess a point 5 - removal of vendors from list (excpet in the case of obvious spam) must be announced on the mailing list
19:53 gmcharlt with a CC to the vendor's listed contact
19:53 chris and put in nice big letters, no endorsement of any kind is implied by being listed
19:54 owen So are we still saying email the list to initiate a listing?
19:54 chris_n owen: I think yes
19:54 magnus +1
19:54 wizzyrea It could be done several ways
19:54 thd hdl_laptop: does gmcharlt advertisement of services test satisfy you as something spammers would not bother to do?
19:54 gmcharlt owen: possibly yes, although actually I think a form on the website might be better
19:54 chris_n introducing one's self to the community would be appropriate to being listed
19:54 wizzyrea we could have a form that mails the list, for that matter
19:55 wizzyrea though, that might be conducive to spam >.>
19:55 owen Yeah
19:55 hdl_laptop thd: spammers would ask to be listed as a koha support company ?
19:55 tajoli Better a email to the list that a web form, IMHO
19:55 reed +1 for must introduce yourself on the list add make the request there to get added
19:55 hdl_laptop spammers bot are not that "lart" yet.
19:55 hdl_laptop s/lart/smart/
19:55 vickiteal Which list, koha-l or developer list?
19:55 wizzyrea okies, I'll work something up and send it out to the list
19:55 chris main one
19:55 gmcharlt I'm suggesting a form for a specific purpose, though - to not have the listigns be complete unconstrained in their form
19:55 tajoli The main list
19:55 wizzyrea right
19:55 wizzyrea so
19:56 vickiteal Sorry Chris, your main may not be my main list. ;)
19:56 thd hdl_laptop: human spammers are that smart. gmcharlt's proposed rules are for human spammers
19:56 chris koha list is the main list
19:56 wizzyrea we
19:56 wizzyrea well
19:56 wizzyrea how about this
19:56 vickiteal Thanks.
19:56 wizzyrea a vendor introduces offering services
19:56 chilts gmcharlt: that's ok, because a human will add it to the list (and make it nice and fit in with the rest of the page)
19:56 wizzyrea we can mail them back a link to the form
19:56 wizzyrea so we get uniform data
19:56 schuster When they introduce themselves to the list should they do more than say Hi I'm David and I support Koha ad Schuters in?
19:57 * reed to the train
19:57 schuster wizzyrea you typed faster than me.
19:57 wizzyrea or we can provide a template
19:57 chilts yeah, I think it'll be obvious if someone who emails the list actually does something related to Koha
19:57 wizzyrea for introducing your company to the list
19:57 chilts their website would show that, for one
19:57 wizzyrea OH
19:57 wizzyrea one thing
19:57 chris_n +1 # for wizzyrea's suggestion
19:57 wizzyrea I think that a very simple requirement
19:58 wizzyrea is a link back to koha-community.org
19:58 wizzyrea from their website
19:58 chris_n +1
19:58 owen Good one
19:58 vokalr +1
19:58 tajoli OK
19:58 schuster +1
19:58 hdl_laptop +1
19:58 schuster wizzyrea is on it today!
19:58 wizzyrea ok this is good.
19:58 thd While enforcing a rule against seeming more official than the community project now seems moot, it is certainly a good principle.
19:59 gmcharlt -1 # I disagree - I would prefer that it stick with "does vendor offer Koha services"
19:59 chris_n why?
19:59 hdl_laptop because of context.
19:59 schuster hmmm gmcharlt ... I see a point...
19:59 brendan a link back would help SEO - wouldn't it ?
19:59 thd gmcharlt: I am not proposing a rule
20:00 chris_n hdl_laptop: context?
20:00 larsw the "must link to k-c" sounds like a reaction to ptfs to me (I'm neither for nor against)
20:00 wizzyrea it would, and would have the benefit of forcing them to admit we are official
20:00 gmcharlt all things being equal, I would prefer link back to koha-community.org and following community guidelines
20:00 * chilts gets up to go to work ... ttfn
20:00 chris certainly i still expect ppl to hold support companies to task when they behave badly
20:00 gmcharlt but the well has been poisoned
20:00 chris but i dont think we need to make the website be the stick to hit them with
20:00 thd We should be able to have recommendations of community spirited practises even where they are being ignored by organisations listed.
20:00 wizzyrea larsw: did you see the old rules? Those were a reaction to PTFS, if I've been informed correctly
20:01 chris their customers leaving should be that stick
20:01 thd recommendations are not the same as rules.
20:01 wizzyrea no, I want the official website to be inclusive to a fault, if necessary
20:01 * chris_n thinks that is sometimes a very small stick
20:01 wizzyrea me, personally
20:01 schuster We are not telling them Where they have to put the link... but they should recognize where the software originalted from.
20:01 larsw +1 for a "koha support company best practices checklist" that is not in the form of a cricket bat
20:01 schuster (put the link on their website)
20:01 thd wizzyrea: I am favouring maximum inclusiveness.
20:02 wizzyrea thd: excellent, we are agreed :)
20:02 thd wizzyrea: I merely wonder in some separate place we should list things that we encourage people to do without any stick if they do not do them.
20:03 wizzyrea yes, I agree
20:03 wizzyrea we should post the community guidelines
20:03 thd wizzyrea: carrots all the way.
20:03 chris how about "don't be a dick"
20:03 gmcharlt I would be happy with language requesting link-back to koha-community.org, but not demanding it
20:03 wizzyrea but separate from how to get listed
20:03 chris i think that about covers it
20:03 wizzyrea lol chris
20:03 chris :)
20:03 owen chris: How's that working out for Google?
20:03 wizzyrea oh snap.
20:03 chris_n so what are the procedures for determining if a company is behaving badly and de-listing them?
20:04 chris oh, they have chosen the easier don;t be evil
20:04 thd owen: Google?
20:04 schuster I like that - you can indicate participate in Monthly chat discussions, work on patches, answer questisons on the listserves...
20:04 larsw chris_n, public discussion on the koha@ list, with an invitation to the company to participate in the discussion?
20:04 gmcharlt chris_n: none, if we stick with the principle that listing disclaims endorsement
20:04 wizzyrea chris_n I think we decided that de-listing would only happen if the company no longer supported koha
20:04 thd chris_n: The rules which have been proposed do not consider bad behaviour grounds for delisting
20:05 owen Under what circumstances would a company request a listing and be rejected?
20:05 wizzyrea it's obvious spam?
20:05 wizzyrea that's the only thing I've seen
20:05 larsw blatant intentional violation of the copyright license?
20:05 wizzyrea (which is ok by me, fwiw)
20:05 chris chris_n: this of course doesn't mean people can't point out the bad behaviour
20:05 thd chris_n: endorsement actually may have legal ramifications which could create liabilities as an additional consideration
20:05 schuster Make sure there is the header as Chris mentioned that none of the companies listed are santioned by the koha-community
20:06 * chris_n thinks it is unwise to not have the option to remove those who behave badly
20:06 owen And would that rejection be discussed on the mailing list?
20:06 chris badly is too subjective
20:06 chris i do personally reserve the right to call people dicks when i think they are behaving like them though
20:06 * larsw ponders the possibility to just have a pointer from www.koha-community.org to a page on the wiki where support companies can add themselves if they want to
20:07 thd chris_n: under the carrots all the way theory. Good behaviour will be rewarded in other ways and will win out in most every case.
20:07 chris_n so there is nothing I could do as a support company to cause you to have the desire to no longer want to be associated with me?
20:07 gmcharlt owen: the new policies are decided by community vote here; if egregious behavior occurs, matter can be revisit
20:07 wizzyrea the actual form of the list is somewhat in flux
20:07 wizzyrea there is high desire to have it be sortable in many ways
20:07 wizzyrea i am (will be) working with slef to do that
20:07 thd chris_n: not associating with you would be different from not listing you.
20:07 schuster wizzyrea sortable++
20:07 * chris_n hopes rather than believes that what thd says is true
20:07 chris chris_n: plenty ...but you'd never do them, but only 2 of them would be worth removal from the list
20:08 chris breach of lthe license
20:08 chris and no longer offering services
20:08 wizzyrea I'm also holding the rule that if you are not listed, you can't submit a news feed for inclusion
20:08 thd chris_n: much of the present problems which the community has are because community endorsement had been used selectively as a weapon
20:09 owen I'm not a support company... Can I submit a news feed?
20:09 schuster Not to mention one company was running the website...
20:09 thd chris_n: I am very confident that in the absence of a bad history with rules, we would have a better situation now as a community.
20:09 Colin and that the procedure was not always done openly
20:09 wizzyrea there is the koha planet aggregator for that kind of stuff
20:09 chris thd: s/much/a tiny bit/
20:10 wizzyrea owen
20:10 chris_n thd: chris speaks to the point; if a vendor violates the license, they should be delisted
20:10 larsw I feel strongly that openness about inclusion/rejection/removal is essential
20:10 schuster owen you are a support company - you are for hire under your outside consulting aren't you?
20:10 schuster larsw ++
20:10 Colin larsw++
20:10 owen schuster: Not "formally"
20:10 wizzyrea opennessP++
20:11 thd the license we favour actually includes a friendly cure clause
20:11 wizzyrea openness++ even
20:11 chris i vote yes for owen
20:11 schuster Well could "koha libraries" push a newsfeed?
20:11 wizzyrea of course
20:11 wizzyrea easy to do, easily added
20:11 wizzyrea nengard even has a pipe for that
20:11 schuster Then owen would be covered.
20:11 owen I'm just trying to play devil's advocate
20:11 wizzyrea i kno :)
20:11 nengard http://pipes.yahoo.com/nengard/kohablogs
20:12 Colin devil's consultant surely
20:12 wizzyrea I appreciate the discussion, your guidance is necessary
20:12 nengard feel free to tell me of anything I'm missing - I only subscribe to Koha categories
20:12 schuster schuster needs to learn about these pipes...
20:12 wizzyrea ok so
20:12 wizzyrea the rules as I've distilled them
20:12 nengard schuster should read chapter 7 in this awesome book called 'Library Mashups'
20:12 nengard :)
20:13 wizzyrea Send your introductions to the list
20:13 wizzyrea it would be nice if you linked back to the official website
20:13 wizzyrea don't be a dick (wording to be smithed later)
20:13 joetho Joe Tholen - Tech Coord - SEKLS - Kansas
20:13 chris um no those arent the rules
20:14 chris i thought the rules were
20:14 chris send your intro
20:14 chris do you offer koha services
20:14 chris ?
20:15 wizzyrea to be fair, I thought that 2 was included in 1
20:15 wizzyrea but yes, that was what I meant
20:15 chris and thats all
20:15 chris the rest are a separate thing
20:15 chris on same page called
20:15 wizzyrea fair enough. Community guidelines to be posted separately
20:15 chris 'being a decent human being'
20:15 chris or something
20:15 thd chris: would like to propose adding a requirement to follow the license and what would be the objective test of violation?
20:16 vickiteal Being a decent company.
20:16 chris companies are made up of humans
20:16 chris who own the decisions they make
20:16 * owen must leave
20:16 larsw if ($you_provide_koha_services) { send_email(to => "koha@lists.koha-community.org"); } else { send_email(to => "yourself"; }
20:16 chris there we go, done :-)
20:16 chris_n lol larsw
20:16 wizzyrea it's so subjective though, what's decent? In business it seems that even the worst behavior is tolerated simply because that's the nature of the free market
20:17 wizzyrea do what you can to win
20:17 chris thats why its nothing to do with the rules
20:17 wizzyrea ^^ is what I'm getting at
20:17 chris wizzyrea: that boils back to ppl thinking its ok because they work for a company
20:17 chris but yeah the rule is just do you offer koha services
20:18 chris everything else is untestable
20:18 vickiteal Um, I didn't really think it should say "decent company" or "decent anything."
20:18 wizzyrea oki :)
20:18 wizzyrea just sayin.
20:18 chris if someone violates the license, we will cross that bridge when it happens
20:18 wizzyrea I will fix the rule.
20:19 vickiteal wizzyrea will you recap rules. I'm lost (not unusual).
20:19 wizzyrea we can talk about the community guidelines another time
20:19 chris im fairly sure we could reach a public consensus to remove a company if that happened
20:19 wizzyrea if ($you_provide_koha_services) { send_email(to => "mailto:koha@lists.koha-community.org"); } else { send_email(to => "yourself"; }
20:19 joetho The Evergreen website doesn't emphasize support vendors the way we do.
20:19 thd wizzyrea: actually the US Department of Justice is investigating illegal labour market collusion between Apple, Google, IBM, etc. for having the decency not to attempt to poach one another's employees.
20:19 joetho I wonder if we are overthinking this.
20:19 wizzyrea thd: lol. *sigh*
20:19 chris joetho: i thnk we have just simplified it
20:20 chris do you offer koha services
20:20 chris done
20:20 wizzyrea Introduce yourself, provide X info on the list
20:20 vickiteal Thanks.
20:20 wizzyrea info = name of company, contact information, less than 300 characters of company description
20:21 wizzyrea give or take
20:21 thd wizzyrea: The problem is an anti-competitive agreement. Mere politeness is not against anti-trust law.
20:21 wizzyrea website
20:21 chris_n so... alphabetical listings?
20:21 wizzyrea sortable!
20:21 wizzyrea we will get there!
20:21 wizzyrea but alpha for now
20:21 chris_n or a little js to present a random list each pageload?
20:21 wizzyrea I know the order is a contentious issue
20:21 thd wizzyrea: However, unusual politeness by big companies may prompt an investigation.
20:21 joetho sortable by what? Alphabetical? Age of company? Age of CEO?
20:21 * chris has to head to work
20:21 wizzyrea all of the above
20:22 sekjal it would be interesting if we could somehow work out a 'fair' karma system for support companies
20:22 thd Alphabet please or multiple formats.
20:22 sekjal interesting, and likely extremely difficult
20:22 wizzyrea thd: that's the plan
20:22 thd yes I know
20:22 joetho oh my. Fair karma would put PTFS in ILS purgatory.
20:22 larsw wizzyrea, default order being random so as not to favor anyone? :)
20:22 wizzyrea lol that's one option for sure. The page is static at the moment
20:23 Sharon It's a library ILS folks, it best be alphabetical
20:23 gmcharlt specific wording to propose
20:23 gmcharlt http://koha.pastebin.com/T1gPz2kP
20:23 joetho Hmm. B comes before E which comes before both L and P
20:23 thd joetho: We have some of our current problems because LibLime did put PTFS in ILS purgatory.
20:23 joetho oh how I know.
20:23 schuster could you do columns for the information and then use js table sorter to sort them at will?
20:24 larsw gmcharlt++ (but add mailing list address?)
20:24 chris_n +1 #gmcharlt's proposal
20:24 wizzyrea oh for pity's sake, the format of the list is in flux. I will report on it another time
20:24 wizzyrea :)
20:24 wizzyrea I'm working with slef on it, and he holds all of the same concerns you all do
20:24 gmcharlt revised per larsw http://koha.pastebin.com/aqeJTs4D
20:25 gmcharlt I move to propose that wording above as the new vendor listing policy ^^
20:25 wizzyrea fwiw I'm for the revision
20:25 wizzyrea 2nd!
20:25 chris_n +1
20:25 Colin if the list was random people would just makeup reasons for the order
20:25 joetho I like the pastebin revision, but...
20:25 schuster +12
20:26 joetho but it doesn't address the linkback issue. Talk about walking on eggshells!
20:26 wizzyrea bah, we can drop it
20:26 wizzyrea idc really, I just didn't want people passing themselves off as official
20:26 schuster off to do a few things to get ready for tomorrow. Thanks all... Hope the 3.2alpha2 can be really short.
20:27 wizzyrea ok, i will take this wording, we can change it later
20:27 wizzyrea if we want/need to
20:27 wizzyrea thank you, very good discussion
20:27 joetho +1 for galen's latest pastebin revision
20:27 wizzyrea I'll put the community guidelines on the next agenda :)
20:28 vickiteal Thanks for all your work wizzyrea.
20:28 thd nengard: before we go to far along on the new wiki there is a technical issue which would be good to correct
20:28 * chris_n has to go, bbl
20:28 nengard thd?
20:29 gmcharlt thd: if you're referring to the database setup, I will revamp it over the weekend
20:29 gmcharlt keeping the current en content, of course
20:29 thd I raised it my last post on the mailing list and then I ran out of time to sleep
20:29 thd gmcharlt: yes
20:30 thd gmcharlt: I refer to the cool short URLs issue.
20:31 gmcharlt k, I'll look into it on the weekend
20:31 gmcharlt ok, since this has lasted an hour and a half
20:31 wizzyrea wow, sorry about that
20:31 gmcharlt I propose to not allow further agenda items
20:31 nengard +1
20:31 gmcharlt and move on to setting the next meeting time
20:32 gmcharlt I propose 10:00 UTC+0 on 2 June
20:32 wizzyrea +1
20:32 thd +1
20:32 Colin +1
20:32 hdl_laptop +1
20:32 miguel_xercode 1
20:32 larsw 0 (I fine with anything, really)
20:32 nengard +1
20:33 tajoli +1
20:33 gmcharlt ok, thanks all
20:33 wizzyrea yay
20:33 wizzyrea thanks everybody
20:34 nengard hi Lee
20:34 Lee hey
20:34 wizzyrea oh hey lee
20:34 Lee guess I missed the meeting
20:34 thd gmcharlt nengard: I also think that we should have English content at en.wiki.koha-community.org and that wiki.koha-community.org should be a static page pointing at en.wiki.koha-community.org for now with other languages added after testing how they work in some other test database to avoid breaking things.
20:34 Lee hey liz
20:34 wizzyrea probably en-wiki
20:34 joetho +1 but isn't that pretty earlylate in NZ?
20:35 nengard thd makes sense - and agree with wizzyrea about the URL
20:35 thd Is wizzyrea administering DNS?
20:35 wizzyrea (just easier re: DNS that way)
20:36 wizzyrea no
20:36 wizzyrea < does quite a bit of it in her job though
20:37 thd nengard: Does agree with wizzyrea about the URL mean agree with her about which one points to the wiki?
20:37 thd at www.koha.org
20:37 nengard i agree with en-wiki
20:37 nengard and agree with you that we can have diff languages
20:37 nengard now i'm logging off - was up at 3am for a flight - and too tired
20:38 thd nengard: wait one moment please
20:38 thd nengard: do you prefer en-wiki.* to en.wiki.*
20:38 gmcharlt thd: negard has gone to bed
20:39 thd gmcharlt: yes everyone deserves adequate sleep
20:40 Lee galen is anyone posting the minutes from the this IRC meeting?
20:40 Lee I was late
20:41 thd We volunteer you Lee
20:41 gmcharlt Lee: http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2010-05-05#i_434509
20:42 Lee thanks I bow to your expert organizational skills.:)
20:43 thd wizzyrea: one reference to wiki.koha.community.org should suffice and people can choose a language from their with English being the only localisation choice offered initially.
20:44 thd I will pledge to move content created in other languages as a spur to make sure I test multi-lingual localisation very soon.
20:44 wizzyrea any of these options are fine by me
20:47 wizzyrea thd: thanks :)
20:49 cait good night all
20:50 thd gmcharlt: The primary issue to which I was referring is http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL for which there is a namespace conflict in the file system currently. Not of earhshattering importance but trivial to fix now rather than later where more knowledge would be needed to fix it.
20:50 gmcharlt gotcha
20:53 * magnus wishes everyone a good time of the day
21:07 wizzyrea lots are gone, but http://koha-community.org/get-involved/for-librarians/
21:10 chris_n http://www.koha.biz/updates/issue-one.html
21:10 chris_n now we have our own magazine :)
21:11 chris_n http://www.kohaindia.org/
21:12 brendan sweet we should submit an article
21:12 chris_n wizzyrea++
21:12 chris_n chris may know something about that magazine
21:12 chris_n it looks to be in NZ-land
21:13 chris_n hey richard
21:13 richard hi chris_n
21:15 Nate gnight #koha!
21:22 chris_n now available in php: http://www.findmysoft.com/scripts/koha-php-for-windows-download.html
21:22 gmcharlt or not available in PHP, as the case may be :)
21:23 wizzyrea http://koha-community.org/support/paid-support/how-to-get-listed/
21:23 chris_n gmcharlt: ;-)
21:23 wizzyrea this makes me feel happy and zenlike inside.
21:24 wizzyrea going to get your rules now
21:27 wizzyrea refresh, that's actually proper per what we agreed upon
21:27 wizzyrea about to add the link to the mailing list
21:28 gmcharlt nice and simple
21:29 gmcharlt wizzyrea: I do think you ought to post the new policy to the Koha ML
21:29 wizzyrea I will do that... just copy/paste from the website
21:29 wizzyrea I think i'll also add a link to the notes from the meeting saying it was agreed by community blah blah
21:29 chris_n http://koha-plus.sourceforge.net/
21:29 chris_n http://www.intersearch.com.au/
21:29 chris_n http://koha.unlp.edu.ar/
21:29 chris_n for your reading pleasure
21:30 chris back
21:30 chris didn't intersearch recently email, or post on the site?
21:30 chris_n dunno
21:30 chris would be lovely to encouage them to be more involved
21:31 chris_n chris: do you know about the Koha magazine?
21:32 chris yeah
21:32 * chris_n really should find other things to do
21:32 chris theres tons of things called koha in nz
21:32 chris_n that would make it kinda hard to trademark the word I'd think
21:32 wizzyrea it's a lovely word, lovely premise, why wouldn't you use it everywhere
21:32 chris chris_n: you trademark in certain usage
21:33 wizzyrea so you trademark for koha as defined as ILS
21:33 chris so you can only tm it in terms of a specific usage ... and not the common usage
21:33 chris yes
21:33 chris_n ahh
21:33 chris thats what liblime did
21:33 chris applied for anyway
21:34 chris ah yes intersearch did
21:34 chris we should point them to the page
21:34 chris they can be the test case
21:42 Elwell Hi folks - don't suppose any of you has a guest link to the LWN article do you? (my subs must have run out :-()
21:43 chris it should pop out of the paywall in a day or so
21:43 Elwell 13th apparently
21:43 chris ahh a week
21:44 Elwell yeah - I'll prbably resub as I object to having to read last weeks news
21:50 Elwell OK - feel free to tell me to shut up if this touches a nerve - Just read the LWN article, got the impression from IRC logs that things were 'tense' with liblime before. who are all the catalyst NZ people here - is that just a local company who happens to have a lot of koha customers?
21:52 * chris works for catalyst
21:52 chris so yeah its an nz company that has one of the original koha developers, plus russel who also used to work at katipo and then liblime with me
21:52 chris and a bunch of other developers
21:53 Elwell aaah OK
21:53 chris 108ish staff at catalyst
21:53 chris http://www.catalyst.net.nz/
21:53 Elwell (websites slow) - wellinton?
21:53 chris yeah
21:54 chris international transit to/from NZ is stink
21:54 Elwell yeah I know. I work in HEP / HPC and um yeah even melbourne has issues and thats miles closer :-)
21:55 chris you do any php Elwell ?
21:55 chris wanna move to nz? :-)
21:55 Elwell of 'hello world' quality (and yes we considwered it before - my kids are kiwis)
21:55 chris we are like the UN at catalyst, but our swiss guy just left ... we need a new one ;)
21:55 chris http://www.catalyst.net.nz/vacancies
21:56 chris we do lots of perl (obviously) too
21:56 chris some python some ruby, reed and lars would like it to be more python im sure :)
21:57 Elwell well my contracts just been extended (hopefully - I have till the end of the month otherwise) for 3 yrs so unlikely to move now till kids finish school
21:57 chris catalyst have been really good to me wrt giving me time to work on koha stuff that is not directly billable
21:58 Elwell I'm not ruling NZ out but I'd prefer south island (hey, I ski)
21:59 reed cheap flights from wellington to down there
22:00 chris yup, you can be on the mountain in a couple of hours (maybe more like 3)
22:00 reed and yeah, Catalyst is a pretty sweet place to work for a lot of reasons
22:01 Elwell right - fresh install of koha as I've not touched it for over a year - What OS do you folks develop on? ('s going in a VM for now)
22:01 chris debian
22:01 Elwell cool
22:01 chris lenny for 3.2
22:01 chris squeeze for 3.4
22:01 Elwell stable's good enough for me
22:02 chris squeeze has all the perl modules
22:02 chris thanks to lars getting hte lsat missing ones in
22:02 chris so less cpan involved
22:02 chris and the koha package is being developed to work with squeez
22:02 chris e
22:02 reed you can take the train to Ruapehu, about 3-4hrs
22:03 chris oh i lie, one left
22:03 chris http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=lars%40catalyst.net.nz&comaint=yes
22:03 Elwell but I can locally chuck them in with dh-make-perl?
22:04 Elwell (think thats what it was called - not had to do that for ages)
22:04 chris yup you can
22:10 Elwell anyhow - up for work in ~6h. bed.
22:10 chris sleep well
22:14 chris_n gmcharlt: I'll try out colin's patch tomorrow
22:25 chris_n is anyone successfully sending "Advance Notice of Item Due" notices?
23:11 chris hi nengard
23:11 nengard hi
23:12 * chris wonders if mbreeding is planning to report on the meetings
23:12 brendan hey nengard
23:12 nengard chris yeah i was wondering about that too
23:12 nengard and hi brendan
23:12 brendan be interesting to read his opinion... kind of wish he'd announce himself so that we could add his name to the notes
23:12 nengard trying very hard to read something very interesting ...but i keep letting myself get distracted
23:12 chris not that i mind anyone turning up to the meetings
23:12 chris but yeah, announcing would be nice
23:13 nengard oh - he was in the meeting??
23:13 chris both
23:13 chris the last 2 meetings
23:13 nengard i thought you meant reporting in general
23:13 nengard ahhh
23:13 nengard got it
23:13 brendan me too - I want everyone - because everyone got something good to say
23:13 nengard okay - reading now - ignoring you all until i'm done :) hehe
23:13 chris hehe
23:13 brendan well I hope they do (but not totally true)
23:17 slef drat
23:17 slef just saw owen's tweet
23:17 chris you didn't miss anything
23:18 chris we decided to discuss on the mailing list anyway
23:18 slef I'm sure when I looked last week there were no meetings this week?
23:18 chris there were 2 meetings this week
23:18 brendan not really - we where all waiting for you
23:18 chris yesterday and today :)
23:18 slef I hate May. All meetings are out of place.
23:18 slef And this year, we have a general election adding even more confusion.
23:19 larsw nengard, an announcement of Koha Debian packages is premature, but would an announcement that Debian should now have all Debian dependencies be appropriate for the newsletter?
23:20 nengard larsw it would be very appropriate! send it along :)
23:24 slef What's the copy deadline on the newsletter?
23:26 nengard emailed to me by the end of the 13th your time
23:26 nengard whatever time zone you're in
23:26 chilts that makes it easier ... timezones make me want to cry sometimes :)
23:48 brendan chris I'm not sure - I may have missed this - is there any planned freeze on bugs.koha.org or are we waiting for people to create usernames?
23:53 chris the latter
23:53 chris ill give it a week, then ill call a freeze
23:53 chris for another weeks time
23:55 chris sounds feasible?