Time Nick Message 01:02 larsw Koha declares a dependency on HTTP::OAI, but http://search.cpan.org/~timbrody/HTTP-OAI-3.22/lib/HTTP/OAI.pm says it is a stub module 01:02 larsw does Koha really need HTTP::OAI? 01:03 larsw ah, the module is not empty, after all, so I assume it will be needed 01:04 chris yeah it lets you allow your OPAC to be harvested 01:05 larsw I need some sensible description for the Debian package -- dh-make-perl just extracts the manpage's "this is a stub", which is not good 01:05 chris righto, 2 secs 01:13 chris larsw: try perldoc opac/oai.pl 01:13 chris thats how we are using it at least 01:14 larsw http://paste.debian.net/67605/ is what I came up on my own 01:14 chris seems fine to me 01:14 larsw the perldoc command does not seem to give me any output 01:14 larsw ok, then I'll keep that, thanks :) 02:53 abdullatef Hi there 02:53 abdullatef I'm Abdullatef from Malaysia 02:54 abdullatef yesterday i ask a question on searching 02:54 abdullatef we have install koha on debian 02:54 abdullatef but unfortunately the search is not working 02:55 abdullatef hdl_laptop ask me to check the zebra in install.debian 02:56 abdullatef we have checked it and the zebra is already installed 02:56 abdullatef but the search is still not working 02:57 abdullatef please help us 03:44 Amit hi all 03:44 Amit good morning #koha 04:17 Jo woo hoo: Local Iwi are happy to co-host Koha conference attendees for a powhiri and evening meal out at the marae :) 04:17 Jo after the mayoral reception ... Levin really is turning it on! 04:26 abdullatef hi 07:12 magnus g'day #koha - and thus endeth the easter holiday in norway... 07:39 chris evening 07:57 kf good morning #koha :) 07:59 Ropuch Good morning #koha ;> 08:57 Amit heya Ropuch 10:05 Nouman hi all 10:52 gmcharlt good morning 10:57 chris hi gmcharlt 10:57 gmcharlt back and energized from a mini-vacation 10:59 chris excellent, and well deserved 11:58 kf gmcharlt: around? 11:58 gmcharlt hi kf 11:59 kf hi :) 12:01 kf gmcharlt: I have marc21 samples from our union catalog ready for you 12:01 gmcharlt kf: thanks 12:02 kf its about 5 mb - is email ok? 12:02 kf which address? 12:02 gmcharlt yep - gmcharlt@gmail.com 12:03 kf ok 12:11 kf ok, sent 12:12 Amit heya kf, gmcharlt 12:13 gmcharlt hi Amit 12:13 gmcharlt kf: got it, thanks 12:14 kf gmcharlt: ah, we normally do some changes before importing them into koha 12:15 kf gmcharlt: we move authority numbers from our union catalog to $9 (withoug last number and (DE-576) and we use another utf-8 normalization 12:17 kf gmcharlt: just let me know if you want me to convert the data for koha - my colleague wrote a python program for this task 12:17 gmcharlt kf: thanks - could you send me a copy of that python script? 12:18 kf have to ask my colleague 12:21 kf gmcharlt: I will write him an email and ask for the script 12:24 chris_n morning 12:25 kf morning chris_n 12:47 owen Hello quiet peoples of #koha 12:47 jdavidb hi, owen. :) 12:48 jwagner When they're quiet, they're plotting things..... 12:48 owen Great things I hope 12:48 kf jwagner: you know us ;) 12:48 jwagner heh, heh 12:49 jwagner owen, you have small kids -- you know what it means when they're suspiciously quiet :-) 12:49 owen Yeah. Murder cover-up. 12:50 * jwagner makes mental note to be exceptionally noisy from now on. 12:50 * jdavidb has a little list....none of them will ever be missed... 12:55 * jwagner starts singing Julia Ecklar's "Black Widows In the Privy" 13:21 hilongo gooood morning #Koha :) 13:35 owen Anyone up for a git question? "fatal: unable to chdir or not a git archive" 13:35 jdavidb Context? 13:35 owen Trying to git clone a remote repo. 13:36 owen "The remote end hung up unexpectedly" 13:36 jdavidb if the directory you're trying to clone to already exists, that's bad. clone to a name that does not exist; also make sure the logged in user has write privs where you are intending to put it. On the far end, make sure the clone url is correct; 13:36 jdavidb a typo there will cause that problem. 13:37 jdavidb (in the case of GitHub repos, the suffix .git is *always* needed) 13:38 owen I wonder if git would have a problem following a symbolic link? 13:38 jdavidb It might. 13:38 owen git clone ssh://example.com/public_html/my_repo.git 13:38 owen "public_html" is a symbolic link 13:39 jdavidb try the absolute directory spec? 13:41 owen Counting objects! 13:41 jdavidb :) 14:42 jess i'm sorry that i wanna aske some question about Koha 14:43 jess can i develop my own cataloging sheme instead of MARC which koha defaulted? 14:44 owen jess: You could create your own framework 14:44 owen It would be very tedious to do, but it's possible 14:44 wizzyrea you never have to apologize for asking questions here. :) 14:44 wizzyrea and good morning. 14:45 kf good morning wizzyrea :) 14:45 jess good morning to you all~~^^ 14:45 jess is it mean that i have to delete the default framework and create a new one? 14:46 owen It might be easier to create a new framework by cloning the default one. Then you could delete what you don't need and add anything that's missing 14:49 jess actually i'm doing my university assignment, and we are trying to develop a small size library about paint...... 14:49 jess the metadata scheme we developed is totally different from MARC 14:51 wizzyrea ohh. 14:52 jess thus we are now puzzling whether there is open source ILS which can allow us to develop our own sheme....>.< 14:52 owen How would your own scheme differ from a MARC one? 14:55 jess for example, we would have the manufacturer's name, the function of the paint (e.g. interior emulsion, external emulsion etc.), the application of the paint (e.g. wood, wall, metal etc.), and the colour of the paint etc. 14:56 jess all of them are totally different from MARC, coz they are not print material....>< 14:56 owen To have a system which would allow you to create your own schemes from scratch would involve quite a bit of abstraction 14:57 sekjal you could encode that information in MARC format. You'd just need to define your own meaning to the various fields and subfields, which is done throught the MARC frameworks 14:57 owen You're talking about defining your own data structure, setting up a system for indexing and querying that structure, and setting up a system for outputting that data 14:57 sekjal so, as opposed to MARC21 and UNIMARC, you'd have PAINTMARC 14:58 hdl_laptop mmm... would result in many problems for indexing and sharing biblios 14:59 sekjal yes, the indexing would need to be rewritten, as well 14:59 sekjal and the bibs would not be standard in anyway 15:00 jess mm.....we know.......we have already write our own tagging system... 15:00 owen jess: Part of the reason an open source ILS works is that it uses standards which are shared by libraries around the world 15:00 owen Many many hours of work have gone into making the system work within those standards. 15:01 jess mm....so.....it seems that i can't use koha to finish my assignment.... 15:01 owen What exactly is the assignment? 15:01 jess the course call Metadata 15:02 jess we have to develop a metadata scheme for a topic and develop a database which can allow user to retrieve the information 15:03 jess the easiest one is just use MS access, but we want to have the OPAC for value added..... 15:04 wizzyrea I don't think any of the foss ILS's would explicitly allow that :/ 15:04 wizzyrea as owen said, they all follow the standards 15:04 jess mm.....thus....it seems that is impossible.... 15:05 owen jess: Is programming part of your assignment? 15:05 sekjal Perhaps a CMS like Drupal or Joomla? 15:06 wizzyrea yea, i think there are wordpress plugins that let you do catalog-type stuff 15:06 wizzyrea which is really I think what you're looking for 15:06 wizzyrea like, store-type catalogs 15:06 wizzyrea not library type catalogs 15:06 wizzyrea 1s, let me look 15:07 jess yes...u're right, it isn't exactly a library catalog, we just need the function to searching.. 15:08 jess it's just because we dont want to write the SQL lanuage, it's very troublesome 15:08 sekjal I'd recommend a CMS, then. Wordpress is pretty great, and I think it may be faster to configure than Drupal or Joomla. 15:08 wizzyrea I would look into e commerce solutions 15:08 wizzyrea they will probably do what you need 15:09 wizzyrea http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/wp-e-commerce/ 15:09 wizzyrea as an example 15:09 jess thank you very much~~~u all help me a lot~~~^^ 15:11 wizzyrea :) even when we can't help, we still try ;) 15:11 jess thanks a lot~~u all are so kind~~ 15:52 chris_n are we there yet? 15:54 paul_p hello chris_n & wizzyrea & owen & everybody 15:56 chris_n howdy paul_p 15:56 chris_n is it friday yet? 15:56 gmcharlt hi paul_p 15:57 gmcharlt chris_n: it's Friday ... nowhere, I'm afraid 15:57 * chris_n puts his head down and sobs into his keyboard 15:57 sekjal I've heard of this restaurant that advertises to the contrary... 15:57 paul_p chris_n, why are you asking about friday ? expecting for a week-end already ? 15:58 sekjal perhaps they have some kind of time dilator 15:58 kf it feels like monday... 15:58 * paul_p send chris_n a wave of spring sun from Marseille 15:58 chris_n paul_p: sometimes time moves verrrrry slooowww 15:59 paul_p chris_n, lucky man. For me, it's always too fast... 15:59 * chris_n will take all of the spring he can get 16:00 wizzyrea chris_n: hey, at least it's the day before the day before the day before friday 16:00 paul_p wizzyrea++ 16:00 paul_p lol :D 16:00 chris_n paul_p: it all depends on prospective.... going to vacation takes forever... coming back is very fast ;) 16:00 chris_n wizzyrea: :) 16:01 wizzyrea I was going to say we are at the apex of distance from friday, but I think actually we're over that hump 16:02 wizzyrea that being the point in the week at which you are equidistant from the last friday and your next one 16:02 wizzyrea equi-temporally-distant, I should say 16:02 wizzyrea am I being obtuse enough? 16:02 wizzyrea you are distracted now, nonetheless 16:02 wizzyrea ;) 16:02 paul_p wizzyrea, and this is really depending on your TZ ! 16:02 wizzyrea paul_p: too true! 16:03 wizzyrea chris_n: you're only 2 days from friday if you're in NZ :P 16:03 hilongo So ... from now on... its all way down to next Friday .. :) 16:04 hilongo we'll have to relax... and slide 16:04 wizzyrea hilongo: yes, the sled of time is sliding ever nearer to friday. I say throw up your hands and scream all the way ;) 16:04 chris_n lol 16:06 wizzyrea oh good he's laughing now instead of sobbing 16:06 * wizzyrea wins 16:06 gmcharlt wizzyrea++ 16:12 * chris_n heads off in search of food 16:15 paul_p chris_n, if you want to see some images of Marseille beaches, head here : http://www.marseille.fr/sitevdm/jsp/site/Portal.jsp?page=webcam&webcam_area=plages&page_id=1 16:23 kf ok, more koha tomorrow - bye all :) 17:07 indradg chris, ping 17:18 DRUlm Yes, it *is* 80 degress and like summer here - but I am replacing the firewall :) 17:18 DRUlm Glad to have the work mind you! 17:42 chris_n @wunder 28334 17:42 munin chris_n: The current temperature in Dunn, North Carolina is 31.7�C (1:43 PM EDT on April 06, 2010). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 8%. Dew Point: -7.0�C. Pressure: 29.62 in 1002.9 hPa (Falling). 17:45 fredericd Does anyone has any issue with the way biblio data entry form handles mandatory fields and hidden subfields? 17:49 thd fredericd: what issue are you having? 17:49 fredericd thd: hello, how are you? 17:49 fredericd hidden subfields are not hidden 17:50 fredericd All subfields of a mandatory fiels are visible, even if they are supposed to be hidden 17:50 DRUlm Mandatory fields. Hmmm. Well, you need to setup the normal fields you use and then allow other ones that you might need as hidden. 17:50 DRUlm Really? I have not found that, what version? 17:51 fredericd head version 17:51 thd fredericd: would you have hidden mandatory subfields auto-filled? 17:51 fredericd thd: I don't understand... 17:52 thd fredericd: is the hidden subfield intended to be mandatory? 17:52 fredericd no 17:54 thd The rules about hidden and mandatory are very blunt and not allow subtle conditions. 17:55 thd fredericd: Record editing needs a complete rewrite. 17:55 DRUlm Seems that way to a point 17:55 DRUlm Or a simple raw editor included as an option 17:55 DRUlm would solve many problems 17:55 fredericd I agree. In the meantime... 17:56 thd RRUlm: PTFS has released a currently non-free raw editor. 17:56 fredericd thd: It's not an editor. 17:57 thd fredericd: It could be used as an editor. 17:57 DRUlm No I just mean built into koha 17:58 thd DRUlm: Lack of being built into Koha is part of the reason the programmer had given for not releasing the code last year. 17:58 owen thd: Can you elaborate? 17:59 DRUlm Not really thinking about politics, just thinking about the software 17:59 slef evening 17:59 thd fredericd: I will come back to your problem quickly 18:00 thd owen: John Yokley tried to persuade the programmer Rashid to release the code last spring. 18:00 DRUlm Well, I agree, release the code! 18:01 thd owen: John Yokley told me that he would not order him to release the code. 18:01 slef date -d @1267556400 is not Tuesday, 6 April 2010 at 19:00 UTC+0 (spotted on http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes10apr06 ) 18:01 thd DRUlm: You have to persuade Rashid personally. 18:02 DRUlm I do? 18:02 thd Asking PTFS is not the best approach in this case. 18:02 slef I think it should be date -d @1270580400 - anyone agree? 18:02 owen This Rashid is not an employee of PTFS? 18:03 gmcharlt slef: yep, looks that way 18:03 gmcharlt i.e., community handover meeting is 56 minutes from now 18:03 thd owen: he is, I met him during the SLA conference 18:04 thd owen: I think that he is quite friendly but personally too much of a perfectionist too be very willing to release his code 18:04 DRUlm gmcharlt, what will go down at this meeting, voting? 18:04 owen As an employee of PTFS doesn't PTFS hold the copyright to his work? 18:04 thd owen: That is not the point 18:05 gmcharlt DRUlm: not much, I suspect - I'm not aware of any issues to vote on 18:05 thd owen: PTFS could have released the code a year ago 18:05 thd owen: The impression which I took is that PTFS has respect for the preference of programmers 18:06 gmcharlt DRUlm: main issue as Jo mentioned in her post earlier today is no progress on domains and trademark xfrs since last meeting 18:06 DRUlm Thanks, been up since 5am, starting to fade 18:06 thd owen: I sent a message to PTFS for Rashid giving good arguments for releasing the code last summer 18:07 gmcharlt DRUlm: there may be discussion of Kaitiaki, but I don't know if anybody has anything specific to say regarding that position 18:07 thd I am told that the message was passed on to Rashid 18:08 * owen wonders what other restrictions PTFS programmers are allowed to place on how their work is used 18:10 thd owen: think of it the other way round 18:11 thd owen: think of PTFS deferring to some extent to the choices of their employees 18:12 thd owen: individual choices, such that if individuals are well motivated towards free software then that would be great 18:12 thd owen: I actually had a quite favourable impression of PTFS over this 18:12 slef In my experience, such setups don't work in favour of worker or software freedom, but I don't know what goes on in this particular case. 18:13 thd owen: the impression I had was that PTFS respected the views of their programmers 18:13 DRUlm Cool 18:13 owen I worry that PTFS could be using that as an out 18:13 thd slef: the problem here is persuading one individual to give up clinging too tightly to his own standard of perfection 18:14 thd slef: I have the same problem, so I am sympathetic 18:14 owen Here's a way to think of it the other way round: what if a programmer was being paid to create software for a client and insisted that it be released as open source? 18:15 thd owen: They might be now with the acquisition of LibLime but there position had been very different a year ago. 18:15 thd owen: exactly 18:15 thd owen: That is a good way of looking at it. 18:15 chris i vote jdavidb insists LLEK is open source now 18:16 chris lets see how that goes 18:16 slef bbl (DST caught me out, again) 18:16 thd owen: Persuade the programmers individually and we will all be in a better situation. 18:16 DRUlm Ha 18:17 DRUlm There are good reasons to do so 18:17 thd chris: I think that the only problem is that programmer choice would not be decisive if a contract or policy prevents code release. 18:17 chris exactly 18:17 chris so its convient in this case 18:17 chris i call BS 18:17 chris and shenanigans 18:18 thd chris: I think that this case about the record editor is different. 18:18 gmcharlt thd: the record editor is a sideline (or side show?) in any event 18:18 slef there is another possible problem: instruct the programmers that they must oppose, but tell the world that licensing is responsibility of the programmers. Not that I'm saying it happened here, but I've seen that sort of thing. 18:19 slef Combined with NDAs, it's a whole bundle of subterfuge. 18:19 DRUlm gmch: agreed 18:19 chris gmcharlt++ 18:19 slef now really bbl 18:19 DRUlm we'll or just business. it is what it is 18:20 thd gmcharlt: I think that it may be less of a sideshow than would be evident 18:21 gmcharlt one of the beauties and flaws of a command-and-control company is that although an owner can and ought to accept input from the staff, ultimately the owner can just say that something has to get done already; conversely, the owner is always thereby responsible for the actions of the company 18:22 chris yup, the freeware release had ptfs/liblime's name all over it, not rashid 18:23 thd chris: I note that Rashid's name is prominent in the press release 18:23 owen It's a sign of how far we've come that the term "freeware" struck me as quaint 18:24 chris Liblime, a division of PTFS, has released its MARC Utilities – Metadata Converter, for the manipulation and editing of MARC records in batch mode. 18:24 thd chris: I would suggest that we start a conversation with Rashid personally in very positive terms. 18:24 thd chris: his name is not in the title of course 18:24 chris Liblime released the MARC Utilities editor in the hopes that this library freeware tool will make MARC data conversion easier for library staff and ILS database administrators. Liblime invites all users to let us know if you have any comments or suggestions on enhancing or adding more functionality to MARC Utilities. 18:24 chris it doesnt say "persuade our employee for us since we can't" 18:25 chris it says contact liblime 18:25 thd chris: it would never say that 18:25 chris well it should, if thats the truth of the matter 18:25 nengard :) 18:25 thd chris: I am giving information which I know from a year ago 18:26 chris right, im sayng its not relevant 18:26 chris ptfs/liblime released it, ptfs/liblme own the decision not to release it as free software 18:26 thd chris: I think that it is relevant to how PTFS sometimes works as a company. 18:27 chris its how they told you they work 18:27 thd chris: I agree that they own the decision 18:27 thd chris: I am not trying to defend PTFS here 18:27 chris i dont know if thats true or not, all we can do is look at the results and the actions or inactions of them 18:27 chris so far 18:27 chris no action on koha.org 18:27 chris and releasing freeware 18:27 chris thats what the current tally is 18:28 thd chris: the question is what is the best way to effect a change towards the change we want. 18:28 chris thd: im actually past caring 18:28 thd chris: My information is that the best way is to persuade the individuals 18:29 chris i vote we just ignore the whole sideshow and when/if ptfs decide they want to interact with the project we'll still be here 18:30 chris theres bugs to fix, and releases to be made, lets worry about that 18:30 nengard chris++ 18:30 owen I note also that no one got any on-list response from the person who posted the announcement to the Koha list 18:30 nengard heading to the city to do a presentation now ... kind of wish i didn't have to go 18:31 nengard talk to you all later 18:31 chris cya later 18:31 thd chris: If I had taken the ignore them until they are ready approach, then they would not have been participating in the community the way they had last year. 18:32 chris well that's your call, so far emails from jo and i have been ignored, im not going to waste my time, there are many more things id rather use it on 18:33 thd chris: I would not expect big changes because understand that they are overwhelmed. 18:34 chris i call BS on that too 18:34 chris you dont wake up and buy a company 18:34 thd chris: They do not have enough people to meet the demands of LibLime customers yet. 18:34 chris its not like they had it sprung on them 18:35 chris and that stops a 2 line dns change? 18:35 DRUlm nengard, Arlington - yeah, west DC is better. 18:36 DRUlm Oh wait, C.I.L. has not started yet, next week 18:36 thd chris: I suspect that they are not likely to make such a change without considering it for a few months after addressing other issues first. 18:37 chris probably so, hence lets just not worry about it, and do stuff that is actually useful 18:37 DRUlm I think if they open the code up, it will take 2-3 months to do so, however, the longer the wait, the more differences, sooner would make more sense from an open source standpoint 18:37 chris DRUlm: it would take about 30 mins 18:37 chris to make a public repo 18:37 DRUlm Also, has there been a TarBall produced for LLEK yet, is there not supposed to be a release at least occasionally? 18:37 chris its already all licenses under the GPL, it has to be 18:38 DRUlm Yes, this is true. 18:38 chris the truth is there is no desire, not that its hard 18:38 DRUlm Decision making in business can be 90% of the overhead and tech 10% - depends how a company runs. 18:38 thd chris: If we are willing to accept for the moment what they may be willing to do shortly I think that we can have real progress even if we do not get what we would like. 18:38 thd chris: I think that you are right. 18:39 chris thd: im unconvinced we need them, they need the community, not the other way round 18:39 thd chris: Yet there is still much to be gained short of what we would like. 18:39 thd chris: I also agree 18:39 DRUlm It could take them years if a company has some large wing of decision makers. Who knows. 18:39 thd chris: I am willing to take what me be available. 18:40 chris and there is only wilful ignorance available as an excuse at this point 18:40 thd DRUlm: They are not that big. 18:40 chris since many many overtures have been made 18:40 DRUlm Oh, well. I guess there are decisions being made. 18:41 DRUlm So has there been a LLEK tarball yet? 18:41 chris so i say, lets just move on, and they'll do what they do, there are so many other things we could/should be talkng about instead 18:41 chris DRUlm: you are joking right? :) 18:41 DRUlm Isn't it based on the orginal Koha open source code? How can it not be released? 18:42 thd chris: They announced at ALA midwinter that they would not be making any changes affecting the LLEK business model for at least three months after acquisition. 18:42 chris it is all licensed under the same license, but they are not distributing it 18:42 sekjal LLEK is hosted-only, which gets around the GPL's requirement to release 18:42 chris they are only providing it as software as a service 18:43 DRUlm While the code is running remote on their servers, legally, parts of the code (like the HTML and JAvascript) run locally at a library, so I am not sure if the licence still applies since ALL the code is not running remote, much of it (and in this case, *any*) is running off their servers on the web-browser clients, so one would think by the licence even as it stands, it needs to be released 18:43 thd chris: I think that we do not need PTFS or LibLime but we would be better off with some cooperation from them that they would be willing to provide. 18:44 DRUlm Hosted, yes, but *much* of the code runs un-hosted on the browsers 18:44 chris DRUlm: better lawyers than I have tried that line ... it doesnt work hence the AGPL 18:44 DRUlm Nutty. 18:44 chris thd: when they decide that, we'll be right here 18:45 DRUlm Well, good luck. 18:45 thd chris: I know of some specific small things which I suspect that they would be willing to discuss now. 18:47 thd fredericd: sorry for neglecting your question. (I have not been communicating much with others recently.) 18:48 thd fredericd: the way in which the mandatory flag functions for the record editor is problematical. 18:48 chris thd: so far all Jo and I have received is silence ... so feel free to continue yourself, but I'm not going to waste my time 18:51 thd chris: I have had the experience answering the telephone in a retail shop after some significant publicity where I had not time to do anything but answer the telephone for a few days. 18:52 chris thd: its not a new thing, its months 18:52 chris like i say, im not going to tell you what to do, but im not expending energy on it 18:52 thd chris: It is officially and actually a new thing despite months of planning. 18:53 chris no, the emails being ignored isnt new 18:54 thd chris: I have an advantage of proximity but I will not ask them anything directly on behalf of the community because I do not want to be treated in a formal way. 18:55 thd chris: Perhaps they need both a formal and informal approach. 18:55 chris thd: i feel sure they know what the community wants 18:56 chris they just need to decide what they want 18:56 chris in the meantime, lets fix some bugs instead 18:56 thd chris: We both know that they are not prepared to consider what the community wants most at this time. 18:57 chris the domain name? 18:57 chris yeah ive heard as much 18:57 chris evening Colin 18:57 thd chris: I think that being too insistent about the domain at this time is only likely to obtain silence. 18:58 Colin hi all 18:58 chris thd: hence why i say, lets not bother 18:58 chris since thats all we actually want 18:59 thd chris: The answer to that question may ultimately be no, but there are real advantages short of that. 18:59 gmcharlt greetings folks - it's 19:00 UTC+0, time for the community handover IRC meeting 18:59 gmcharlt http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes10apr06 18:59 wizzyrea you know, all I really want from ptfs is coopetition in the community. 19:00 wizzyrea I want them to behave like any other koha support company 19:00 wizzyrea like *every* other koha support company. 19:00 wizzyrea (that I know of) 19:00 gmcharlt wizzyrea++ 19:00 chris Jo sends her apologies 19:00 thd wizzyrea++ 19:01 gmcharlt let's do roll call 19:01 * gmcharlt = Galen Charlton, ESI 19:01 chris Chris Cormack, Catalyst 19:01 Colin Colin Campbell PTFS-Europe 19:01 * wizzyrea = Liz Rea, NEKLS 19:01 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 19:01 owen Owen Leonard, Nelsonville Public Library 19:01 Sharon Sharon Moreland, NEKLS 19:01 slef MJ Ray, member of software.coop 19:02 sekjal Ian Walls, ByWater Solutions 19:04 gmcharlt so agenda is 19:04 gmcharlt - Welcomes and introductions. 19:04 gmcharlt - Report on Subcommittee 19:04 gmcharlt - Report on status of negotiations over assignment of trademarks and domains. 19:04 gmcharlt - Possible suggestions on unresolved negotiations. 19:04 gmcharlt - Next issues if negotiations have concluded. 19:04 gmcharlt - Agree time of next meeting. 19:05 chris i can take the first one 19:05 * Ropuch = Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE 19:05 chris the subcommittee decided not to meet yet, as there is no pressing business 19:09 gmcharlt and Jo answered the second point, I believe - no change re status of negotiations 19:09 chris which pretty much is the same answer for the 2nd point too 19:09 chris yup :) 19:10 chris_n <= Chris Nighswonger, FBC 19:10 gmcharlt so on to suggestions for unresolved negotiations - as chris says, we're here 19:10 collum Garry Collum, KCPL 19:10 gmcharlt if/when PTFS is ready to to discuss koha.org openly 19:11 chris openly++ 19:11 chris back_room_deals-- 19:13 owen Given the impasse we're at now, is there a point in holding regular handover meetings? 19:14 thd are there not other parties and is there not other business? 19:14 gmcharlt owen: possibly not, except as a vehicle for dealings of the Koha Committee of the HLT 19:15 wizzyrea oh, one thing I would like to talk about very briefly: I am planning on changing how the support company news is displayed on k-c.org 19:15 wizzyrea I would like to change it from a "post on our site" to an aggregate of all of your individual news feeds 19:15 wizzyrea 1. less work for you and me and 2. more fair 19:15 gmcharlt wizzyrea: +1 19:16 thd wizzyrea: What would be aggregated and in what manner? 19:16 wizzyrea RSS feeds of press releases, through yahoo pipes. 19:17 thd wizzyrea: Use them if they work for you but yahoo pipes are non-free. 19:17 wizzyrea thd: noted. 19:18 slef wizzyrea: feedwordpress worksforme 19:19 thd wizzyrea: multiple companies would aggregate feeds together or each company would aggregate its feed separately? 19:19 gmcharlt I would a imagine that each company would provide a relevant RSS feed or feeds to be included in the aggregator at wizzyrea's discretion? 19:19 chris wizzyrea: works for me 19:20 wizzyrea I think the latter, I'm depending on the companies to provide the news 19:20 wizzyrea I"m just collecting it 19:20 wizzyrea and outputting it on our site 19:20 chris i like that much better than them being posts there 19:20 * slef glares at ERC 19:20 thd wizzyrea: thanks, I was merely confused about how the difference would actually appear 19:21 wizzyrea Aha :) 19:21 wizzyrea well, tell you what, if you give me a lil time here, I will have an example and you can *see* what I"m talking about :) 19:21 thd slef: ERC 19:22 thd slef: ERC? 19:22 slef thd: the IRC client I use. 19:22 wizzyrea the reason I want to change it is that we currently really only have one support company posting things 19:22 wizzyrea I know the others have had releases 19:22 wizzyrea but they are not posting them on k-c.org 19:22 wizzyrea (laziness, poutiness, you name it) 19:23 wizzyrea (busy-ness) 19:23 wizzyrea (more likely the 3rd) 19:23 thd wizzyrea: I am all for anything that gives even the appearance of more fairness 19:23 wizzyrea they *are* posting them on their own sites though 19:23 wizzyrea and rather than copy/paste, this seems like a fairer solution 19:24 slef Basically, every hour we spend reposting news releases is an hour not spent on developing cool features for our users or supporting k-c. I already have things I want to add to k-c when I get comfortable with it. 19:24 wizzyrea oh, and I am still working on the directory 19:24 wizzyrea looking for solutions there 19:24 slef That's one of them :) 19:24 wizzyrea slef++ 19:24 wizzyrea :) 19:24 chris yeah, aggregate rss feeds seems like a much better plan 19:25 wizzyrea alright, I shall make it so then. 19:25 chris i mean thats what its for, syndication :) 19:25 wizzyrea ty for your time 19:25 gmcharlt wizzyrea++ 19:25 sekjal thank you, wizzyrea! 19:26 slef wizzyrea: Thanks for your work. I'm horribly intermittent today, but I should talk to you about what we can do most helpfully. 19:26 chris re the meeting, i think we should leave the next one unscheduled, and call one if/when we need it 19:26 wizzyrea whenever you're ready slef ;) 19:26 chris the general meeting can catch pretty much everythng we want to discuss 19:27 slef maybe just add a quick report on the subcommittee to the generals? 19:27 chris that'd work 19:28 thd are there not other parties aside from PTFS/LibLime who may have yet to be asked about community related assets? 19:28 wizzyrea oh, which also means: if you have a news feed URL, send it to me, please. PM's/Email/carrier pigeon, all work. 19:29 wizzyrea I'm going out looking for them but if I miss you, send me the urls, please. 19:31 slef thd: I don't remember our current situation. Let me look it up. 19:31 * chris_n goes out to dispatch a covey of pigeons 19:33 slef We asked if HLT would offer FOSS-friendly trademark terms which would allow us to enter some sort of agreement and we are waiting for reply since 10 February. 19:33 slef bbi10ish 19:35 chris slef: its pretty much impossible to trademark koha in nz 19:35 thd As I understand the issue which slef may be raising, using a mark in business without evident permission is a criminal offence in the UK. 19:35 chris but for the EU one, im sure the subcomittee could deal with that 19:35 thd chris: slef is not concerned about what would happen to him in NZ :) 19:36 chris slef: want to send me an email with what it would entail and ill raise it 19:38 chris afaik we are still waiting on bureaucrats for the transfer, once its done im sure terms that are foss friendly can be worked out 19:40 slef back 19:40 slef chris: will do. 19:40 slef thd: it should be similar in most WIPO nations, as I understand it. 19:41 chris acta will fix all that 19:41 chris WIPO is being relegated 19:41 * chris be's pessimistic 19:42 thd slef: I think that trademarks are still only a civil matter in the US. 19:42 slef thd: however, software.coop hold pre-existing rights which I understand should protect us, and also invalidate the CTM registration attempt (aka the EU one) if we don't agree to it. 19:43 slef chris: *sigh* when I'm done with the Digital Economy (destruction) Bill, I'll take a look at ACTA :-( 19:43 chris thd: acta will fix that too 19:45 chris slef: next round of acta negotiations are here 19:46 chris nz are pushing for openness .. but we are small fry 19:46 chris i suspect we will just be bullied, like anyone not the US or EU 19:46 slef oh well, parliament.uk is being dissolved soon, so maybe I can raise it in the campaigns 19:47 owen Is the meeting still on or can I ask a Koha question? 19:47 chris ah yeah, saw that on the news, may 4th election? 19:47 chris owen: i think ts finished 19:47 owen Anyone know about where items.cn_sort comes from? I've got a couple of variations on the kind of data there 19:47 * chris has 10 mins before the bus 19:47 chris ahhh 19:47 chris yeah i did know that 19:48 owen Example one: 204_420000000000000_JA Example two: 205.677 My 19:48 chris its supposed to be a sortable version of the callnumber 19:48 chris but yeah, its broken 19:48 chris i did a patch for someone at waldo, it got thrown in the bin i think 19:48 chris ill find it 19:49 owen Is Koha generating that long version of the call number? 19:49 chris yes 19:49 slef chris: I thought 6th May but I've not seen the news today. Been busy working. 19:49 chris owen: it pads it to make it sortable 19:49 Colin yes 6th of may 19:49 chris Colin: shows how much attention i was paying, i got distracted by the puppets in the background :) 19:49 owen chris: My initial assumption was that the shorter format call numbers were older data before the sortable version was developed 19:49 chris owen: could well be 19:50 slef how well are patches getting into koha mainline at the moment? I think I have ones on gitorious koha smallbugs branch waiting. 19:50 chris but i do know that the sort routine doesn't fully work 19:50 owen chris: The routine for generating the sortable version? 19:50 chris slef: gmcharlt is still the release manager for master, so send koha-patches@lists.koha.org a request to pull 19:51 chris (or if its 3.0.x its still hdl .. same thing applies) 19:51 chris owen: yes, at least i think thats what i am remembering 19:51 gmcharlt slef: working on clearing out backlog - there will be pushes tomorrow 19:52 chris owen: if you send me an email (i use my inbox as my todo list) ill look into it on my lunch 19:52 slef smallbugs is for 3.0.x 19:52 chris slef: hdl_laptop is your man then 19:52 slef I've sent pull requests. 19:53 slef will resend 19:53 chris cool 19:53 chris ok bus time 19:54 wizzyrea http://koha-community.org/category/koha-news/press-releases/ 19:55 wizzyrea these are the first 3 I have added. 19:55 sekjal thanks, wizzyrea. looks good to me. 19:55 slef now in kitchen... no web here... will look in 70mins or so 19:57 slef ok, bye all 19:57 wizzyrea ty for the feedpress suggestion 19:57 wizzyrea just what I needed 20:14 owen Bye all 20:15 cait good night #koha 20:31 richard hi 20:31 Jo hiya 20:43 chris back 20:49 Jo hita Chris. 20:49 Jo hiya 20:49 Jo just read the logs of the meeting. 20:49 gmcharlt hi Jo 20:49 Jo Hi Galen 20:49 Jo sorry about that folks. 20:50 Jo the boys got invited to stay on a dairty farm for a week and its been a blind panic arranging gumboots and raincoats and booking buses etc .. anyway they are now safely off on their first unaccompanied bus trip to the middle of nowhere 20:51 Jo and I'm a nervous wreck .... just breathing. Anyone who kidnapped my boys wouldn't keep them for long :) 20:52 wizzyrea hehe 22:08 * jdavidb notes chris's nomination of 18:15 server time, and declines; he prefers to be still working, over abrupt unemployment. 22:16 rhcl2 does anybody understand this? http://www.publicip.net/open_source.php 22:17 rhcl2 I must be too tired, but whatever (s)he's trying to say confustes me 22:19 chris jdavidb: :-) 22:19 larsw "open source programmers don't do it for the money, we do it to express ourselves" -- that's delusional 22:19 chris jdavidb: it was tongue in cheek :-) 22:19 jdavidb :) 22:20 rhcl2 Public IP's software is mostly open source. It's been built using 100% open source (commercial licensing has been purchased for some of the source code to avoid re-releasing modified code as specified in the GPL). 22:20 rhcl2 The ideal of open source drives Public IP. 22:20 rhcl2 so which is it? 22:21 rhcl2 I should have put quotes around the above 22:22 chris i think they are going for the ideal of open source, not free software maybe :) 22:37 chris_n wow... http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/us2010utc5.php 22:37 chris ack 22:37 * chris goes to check stuff.co.nz 22:38 chris i always have an urge to check the traffic graphs whenever any news breaks 22:38 chris_n yeah, the pipes fill up quick