Time  Nick           Message
00:15 Genji          ah.. so doing 'not jn=55,435,34,234' is the wrong way? each journal number has to have its on jn=?
02:52 genji-laptop   Yay, got the not jn query working. I was doing jn=value,value,value...... instead, its actually 'not jn=value1 not jn=value2' etc
03:14 CGI169         hey guys
03:14 pianohacker    Good evening
03:14 CGI169         where are yall from
03:14 CGI169         lol im like near russia right now
03:15 CGI169         and im outside
03:15 CGI169         its freezing
03:15 CGI169         thank goodness i found a chatroom
03:15 CGI169         i cant access anything
03:15 CGI169         it's all blocked
03:16 genji-laptop   chris: Liblime acquired the koha division of Katipo..... yet you are not in liblime.... who have they actually got that was in katipo?
03:16 chris          no one
03:16 chris          we all left
03:16 chris          as have most of their staff
03:16 genji-laptop   chris: ...... acquisition fail then huh?
03:16 CGI169         what is this room about
03:17 chris          genji-laptop: yeah fundamentally difference philosophies on what FLOSS is about
03:17 chris          different even
03:17 pianohacker    CGI169: http://www.koha.org/, open source library management software
03:17 pianohacker    CGI169: If you have to ask, it'll probably bore you ;)
03:17 CGI169         oh ok
03:17 CGI169         no it wont
03:18 genji-laptop   CGI169: Welcome to #koha. Its a support channel for Koha.... the Open-source intergrated library system. issues, returns, renewals, patron details, overdue accounts, acquisitions.... Its all here.
03:18 CGI169         oh i see lol
03:18 CGI169         im in the military
03:18 CGI169         and i was just looking for something to do
03:18 genji-laptop   the russian military?
03:19 CGI169         no
03:19 CGI169         im just located near russia
03:19 genji-laptop   ah.. okay.
03:19 CGI169         US
03:19 * genji-laptop ummms.... "Im not sure your supposed to be giving away your position, soldier."
03:19 CGI169         its ok
03:20 CGI169         it's a known location
03:20 genji-laptop   uhhuh...... do you have a bbc news article referencing your div's deployment?
03:20 CGI169         yes
03:21 genji-laptop   ah okay then.
03:21 CGI169         im jus wondering if obama has made any decision regarding the increase in troops
03:22 * chris        has no idea, im in NZ so dont follow the US military that much
03:22 * CGI169       didnt know lol
03:22 CGI169         i used to go on mirc back in the day
03:23 CGI169         @ dalnet
03:23 munin          CGI169: Error: "dalnet" is not a valid command.
03:23 CGI169         ?
03:23 genji-laptop   munin = bot
03:23 munin          genji-laptop: Error: "=" is not a valid command.
03:23 CGI169         lol
03:24 CGI169         alright
03:24 genji-laptop   CGI169: also be aware that this channel is being logged. don't say anything that you don't want made permanantly available.
03:24 CGI169         i know
03:24 CGI169         i havent said anything important
03:25 Amit           heya brendan, chris
03:25 CGI169         hi amit
03:25 Amit           hi CGI169
03:25 CGI169         where are u from
03:26 Amit           I am from India u?
03:29 genji-laptop   chris: so... if they failed... why don't they admit it, and sell it all back to katipo, or to a Koha foundation .... which the community is already setting up?
03:30 chris          im not sure they think they failed
03:30 genji-laptop   So, they succeeded.. but not in the way the community hoped, eh?
03:31 chris          well i dont think they succeeded
03:31 chris          im just saying i cant speak for what they think
03:31 genji-laptop   ahh.
03:31 chris          they certainly have succeeded in backing themselves into a corner
03:32 genji-laptop   LEF = vendor lock in?
03:32 genji-laptop   err.. LEK.
03:33 chris          well considering you can only get it from one vendor, then yep
03:33 genji-laptop   which is contary to the concept of koha..... funnily enough, they say 'no vendor lock in' on their ... 'our' website.
03:34 chris          *nod*
03:34 pianohacker    Your _data_ might theoretically not be locked in
03:34 pianohacker    But with normal koha, you could move to a version hosted by yourself or a different vendor, and expect the same features to be available
03:34 pianohacker    LEK means, in effect, feature lock-in
03:34 chris          yep
03:34 chris          and database changes
03:35 genji-laptop   you 'could' get someone else to look at your problems. Most likely liblime because no one else would have the knowledge to fix things, right?
03:35 chris          no one else has access to the code
03:35 pianohacker    Well, we can offer general advice, based on guesses on what has changed
03:35 genji-laptop   ... isn't that against the GPL?
03:35 chris          you can only get liblime to do it, its run as SaaS, they dont actually have access
03:35 chris          no
03:35 chris          not against the letter of GPLv2
03:35 genji-laptop   ah... System as a service......
03:35 chris          since they haven't distributed it
03:36 genji-laptop   all hosted on their machines..
03:36 chris          definitely against the spirit of it
03:36 pianohacker    it's against the Affero GPL, but I think that was regarded by most as a step too far in the other direction
03:36 chris          *nod*
03:36 pianohacker    (and would be impossible to do retroactively)
03:36 genji-laptop   And if liblimes upstream internet provider goes down... how many lib's lose access to their intranet?
03:36 chris          thats the problem with cloud services
03:37 pianohacker    yup
03:37 pianohacker    but of course that never happensâ„¢
03:37 genji-laptop   Ballpark figure, for postarity... how many?
03:37 pianohacker    ... libraries hosted on lek?
03:37 * genji-laptop nods.
03:38 chris          no idea
03:38 pianohacker    Dunno. From press release volume, at least ten groups/libraries (including the ASCC consortium here in colorado, which has a fair amount of libraries)
03:42 genji-laptop   anyway, got to go now. working on getting a cisco ip phone logged into asterisk. Thanks for the help and conversation, all.
03:45 pianohacker    genji-laptop: glad to talk, have a good evening and good luck with the phone
03:51 pianohacker    Good night
06:41 Ropuch         Good morning
07:02 chris          hi Ropuch
07:26 chris          morning nicomo
07:27 Ropuch         Hi chris, nicomo
07:27 imp            moinsen
07:30 nicomo         hi Ropuch
07:49 paul_p2        hello world
07:49 paul_p2        chris_n++ (for the mail to Adrea Lund)
08:00 kf             good morning #koha
08:00 imp            heyho kf
08:45 Genji          greetings all.
08:56 kf             hi Genji
08:59 Genji          hiya kf. whats your connection to koha, im curious?
09:01 kf             i m working at a German institution providing support for koha
09:02 nahuel         hi all:)
09:06 Genji          ah cool!
09:18 Amit           heya kf, nahuel
09:18 nahuel         heya
09:23 kf             hi Amit and nahuel
09:23 kf             Genji: and yours? ;)
09:30 Ropuch         Guten Morgen, kf [;
09:31 kf             hi Ropuch :)
09:35 Genji          kf: Developer of Koha for a Saudi Arabian medical journal private library.
09:38 Genji          so, nitty gritty coding level.
09:39 Genji          worse than usual. its koha 3.0 code. not 3.04 or anything like that.
09:41 hdl_laptop     Genji: are you sticking to 3.0 because you worked much on this release ?
09:44 Genji          The saudi arabian library did work, making it truely Arabic compliant. (volume grammer etc, skip words like 'to' .. the arabic equivilent, ) and they are afraid of loosing their mods. That and they want features right now. They can't really afford time or $ on bringing their code up to current stable.
11:45 magnusenger    hm, i'm having some zebra weirdness... i have a file with 400k marc records, and bulkmarcimport'ed 1000 records from it into a virtual machine on my desktop with the -n switch, then did rebuild_zebra. A search for "oslo" gave 350 hits.
11:45 magnusenger    Then I imported 10.000 records and did rebuild_zebra: http://blogg.enger.priv.no/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/rebuild_zebra.png - then a search for "oslo" only gave 85 hits, but the number is increasing steadily
11:46 magnusenger    Looks like rebuild_zebra didn't actually do much the last time, and now zebraqueue_demon is slowly indexing the records?
11:47 magnusenger    from what rebuild_zebra says in the screen dump i thought running it was a success, exept for one record - could that one record have messed it all up?
11:57 hdl_laptop     yes
11:58 hdl_laptop     if there is a failure on one record, indexing doesnot go further
11:59 magnusenger    A ha, so when it says "Records: 10000 i/u/d 9999/1/0" that means failure?
12:00 magnusenger    To my uneducated eye it looks like the error message could have been a bit less discreet... ;-)
12:01 hdl_laptop     no.
12:02 hdl_laptop     here it says : 9999 inserted
12:02 hdl_laptop     1 updated
12:02 hdl_laptop     0 deleted
12:04 magnusenger    hm, not sure i quite understand that, then...
12:04 magnusenger    Shouldn't the 9999 inserted records be searchable?
12:05 hdl_laptop     yes they should
12:07 magnusenger    ah, but they are not. Indexing 1K records gives more hits for "oslo" than indexing 10K records...
12:10 magnusenger    ...initially, but the number is increasing slowly each time i do the search
12:46 hdl_laptop     magnusenger: very strange
12:48 jwagner        Good morning all.
12:48 kf             good morning jwagner
12:49 chris_n        g'morning
12:51 kf             @karma work
12:51 munin          kf: Karma for "work" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
12:51 jdavidb        harrrrumph!
12:51 jdavidb        work--
12:51 kf             hi jdavidb
12:51 jdavidb        Hi, kf. :)
12:51 kf             work-- #for imp
12:52 kf             @karma work
12:52 munin          kf: Karma for "work" has been increased 0 times and decreased 3 times for a total karma of -3.
12:52 imp            :D
12:57 jwagner        @karma vacation
12:57 munin          jwagner: vacation has neutral karma.
12:57 jwagner        vacation++
12:57 paul_p         good morning USA !
12:57 jwagner        Bonjour Europe!
12:57 nengard        moring paul
12:57 nengard        and all
12:57 jdavidb        vacation++ #agrees with jwagner, even though he doesn't know what a vacation looks like...
12:58 paul_p         nengard: moring, really ? I don't know what it means, but thank you :D :D
12:58 nengard        oh boy - it's still early and my fingers are very cold - hard to type :)
12:59 jwagner        You sure that's not mooring, as in mooring a boat?
12:59 jwagner        (und Guten Tag, kf)
12:59 paul_p         jwagner: there's a see in Marseille, so maybe it's mooring. But I don't have any boat...
13:38 jdavidb        Howdy, owen!
13:38 owen           Hi
14:24 owen           nengard around?
14:24 nengard        yup
14:24 schuster       I am looking for a way to know what the next bib number is or the last one?  suggestions?
14:24 schuster       So great to have her around... nengard... ;)
14:24 owen           Hi nengard, I've got a question about the Koha Facebook page
14:25 owen           I just got a tweet from the kohails account pointing to this page: http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=193332171335&comments
14:25 owen           (yeah I know it's in another language)
14:25 owen           But the thing is...there's no URL or anything
14:26 owen           It's confusing even for posts in English!
14:26 nengard        hmmm - hang on
14:26 nengard        owen - are you referring to the most recent tweet :  http://twitter.com/kohails
14:27 nengard        if so it's an update to the wiki - I pull the wiki RSS feed in and that's the link it generates - is there a better feed to pull in?  I found it confusing at first too - but this way you're taking to the page that lists what has changed
14:27 owen           Sorry, I'm getting my social media updates mixed up
14:28 owen           I guess it was a Facebook notification, because the link I followed took me to the Facebook page above
14:29 owen           The "Koha Integrated Library System's Notes" page on Facebook.
14:30 owen           Oh wait, now I see it
14:30 owen           There's a "View Original Post" link. That's what I wasn't seeing.
14:30 owen           Never mind!
14:39 nengard        :)
14:40 nengard        no prob - and you're right - the same content is sent to Facebook & to Twitter
14:40 nengard        I use the Yahoo! Pipe to feed them all
14:40 nengard        http://pipes.yahoo.com/nengard/kohablogs
14:45 Melanie        Hi.  Does anyone use Amazon.com for the book jackets/reviews?  Our reviews don't seem show up.
14:45 hdl_laptop     which version are you using ?
14:45 Melanie        3.01.00.032
14:47 Colin          are you seeing none at all or just very rare ones?
14:48 owen           Melanie: I think Amazon content is broken for all LibLime customers who haven't been migrated to LEK
14:49 owen           We're on the same version (last updated sometime in June)
14:50 jdavidb        "it's a *feature*!"   :P
14:53 nengard        LOL
14:53 nengard        jdavidb is a trouble maker - but he's a funny trouble maker :) hehe
14:54 nengard        anyway - Melanie - I believe biblibre fixed that issue with Amazon Reviews with a patch that is available in the most recent version of Koha
14:54 nengard        and will obviously be in 3.2
14:57 hdl_laptop     3.0.4_fixed and 3.0.5 already integrates those things
14:57 paul_p         Melanie: 3.0.5 will be released soon, don't try to get it now ;-)
14:58 owen           Melanie is a LibLime hosted customer, so it's not up to her ;)
14:58 paul_p         Melanie: LL customers with official Koha are still with 3.0.2 (dunno the reason, except to try to convince ppl to move to LEK)
15:03 owen           In LibLime's defense (gasp!), their goal is to get all their customers on the same version. I just disagree about which version that should be.
15:04 owen           I sympathize with their desire to keep things simple by keeping their customers on the same version. I imagine other support companies face the same challenge.
15:05 Colin          I think every vendor's tried and all have failed
15:05 jwagner        Certainly one of the issues I have is that apart from the actual codebase various customers want individual screen changes ranging from the very simple to the very complex.
15:06 owen           jwagner: And you don't just say no? :)
15:06 paul_p         jwagner: in this case we say: "OK, but you won't be in standard koha, and that will cost €X to maintain" ( X being BIG ;-) )
15:07 jwagner        We try to accomodate where possible.  (But I have been known to say NO! to a few things.)  I need to go back and see if any of them can be handled through jquery, but there will still be some local template changes to merge with whatever the baseline code is.
15:07 paul_p         it's better than just say "no", and our customers understand quickly the caveat
15:07 Colin          So many customers seem to interpret a no as yes and its my top priority
15:08 jwagner        Amazing how customers have selective hearing problems like that :-)
15:08 paul_p         Colin: lol...
15:08 * jdavidb      isn't saying *nuffin* about certain customers from New Jersey...
15:08 paul_p         sometime, we also say : "ohhh... it could be a good idea, but, well, it's too frenchy, and the community will never accept that"
15:09 paul_p         ( a trick you can't use ;-) )
15:09 jwagner        A lot of the fiddly patches I've sent out for display changes are stuff that customers have asked for.  If more than one asks for the same thing, I figure it's worth doing as a patch.
15:09 paul_p         (you could try "it's too US, the frenchies won't like that", but i'm not sure it will work...)
15:09 jwagner        paul_p, but we could say "it's too Yank!" :-)
15:09 bebbi          Hallo kf
15:10 kf             bebbi: hello bebbi
15:10 bebbi          Hallo. Gerade eine Sekunde Zeit? Man sagte mir, du k�nntest mir vielleicht helfen ...
15:11 bebbi          Aber da warst du nicht online hier im Chat ...
15:11 paul_p         hey, fun, I can still understand a few german ;-)
15:12 paul_p         (learned at school 24 years ago)
15:12 bebbi          That's fine ... :-)
15:12 kf             bebbi: um was geht es? hatte gerade noch ein kurzes Meeting
15:13 owen           paul_p: It was almost as long ago that I studied French
15:14 Melanie        thanks for the info.
15:15 nengard        sorry we weren't of more help :(
15:15 paul_p         Melanie: Hélas, i'm afraid we will have to write that more and more ( LEK is not Koha ) :'((((
15:15 bebbi          Also: ich habe XP und will koha installieren. Die letzte windows Version ist schon etwas �lter, weil es wohl Portierungsprobleme gibt. Wir hatten hier im Chat dann soweit �berelgt, das dei einzige sinnvolle M�glichkeit h�chstens sein k�nnte eine virtuele maschine zu installieren und das Image von koha als Laufwerk da einzubinden *sowas noch nie gemacht hab* (Einen Server habe ich nicht zur Verf�gung). Aber die Mitdiskutanten war
15:15 bebbi          en der Meinung, ich solle dich noch mal fragen ... ich will die aktuelle Version halt vor allem auch deswegen, weil es da ja die deutsche Benutzeroberfl�che gibt ...
15:16 Melanie        yea.....
15:17 kf             bebbi: soweit ich weiss war die letzte lauffähige version unter windows 2.2.0
15:17 kf             2.2.9
15:18 bebbi          Paul_p: Seven years and a half ago i had my last english lesson at school and i was'nt good ... To iinterpret a text is even in German nothink for me ... :-(
15:19 paul_p         bebbi: you should come here more often, you'll learn English + get some help from all around the world (from france -me-) to USA - nengard, jdavidb, jwagner, owen - and New Zealand - chris -
15:20 paul_p         hi Nate, 'morning
15:20 Nate           Hiya paul_p!
15:21 * jdavidb      waves a greeting to bebbi.
15:21 bebbi          Paul_p: i don't know so much words ... and - I think so - the problem ist, that you doesn't learn to talk in reality outside the school ...
15:21 jdavidb        bebbi, I can understand you very well.  :)
15:22 jdavidb        (And I don't have any other languages, besides English.)
15:22 jwagner        jdavidb, that's not true.  You speak Texan!
15:22 kf             :)
15:22 jdavidb        harrrumph!
15:23 Nate           and a good morning to everyone!
15:24 jwagner        heh, heh
15:24 paul_p         mine was quite good, thanks Nate ;-)
15:24 kf             good morning Nate
15:24 kf             bebbi: sometimes I think everybody here knows at least a little German
15:25 jwagner        I had about a year's worth of German in college, but I've forgotten most of it.  Ich spreche nur ein bischen Deutsch...
15:25 kf             jwagner: which is a perfect German sentence :)
15:26 jwagner        I think I'm missing some diacritics, and I'm not sure about the spelling, but it gets the meaning across....
15:28 jwagner        I learned just enough German to travel in Germany without being totally lost if I needed directions or help.
15:29 kf             jwagner: where have you been in Germany?
15:35 bebbi          Jdavidb: I think, i make so much mistakes ... but I say to me "If the people unterstand you, it's all right :-) "
15:38 bebbi          Jdavidb: I had to (It's the right past to must, or?) leard alidle bit of latin and old-greek and old-hebrew - but it's "f�r die Tonne" we say in Germany (means: you can't do anythink with it)
15:42 kf             bye #koha :)
15:47 magnusenger    hm, i've been seeing a bit of this lately: "DBD::mysql::db do failed: The total number of locks exceeds the lock table size at /usr/share/koha/bin/migration_tools/bulkmarcimport.pl line 116." Anyone got an idea what i'm doing or not doing wrong?
15:48 hdl_laptop     magnusenger: are you trying to bulkimport while having rebuild_zebra crojob active ?
15:48 paul_p         magnusenger: it's a truncate biblio on a large DB
15:48 paul_p         ?
15:49 magnusenger    hdl_laptop: yup, not a good idea?
15:49 paul_p         not a good idea, definetly ;-)
15:49 magnusenger    paul_p: yes, about 400k records
15:49 hdl_laptop     you might end up screwing your server
15:49 hdl_laptop     because you start rebuild_zebra over and over again.
15:50 paul_p         the foreign key constraint on biblio/biblioitems/items make truncate biblio fail on large DB. I had to do "DELETE FROM items WHERE biblionumber > 300 000"
15:50 paul_p         the > 200 000, then 100 000, then biblioitems, then biblio
15:50 hdl_laptop     rebuild_zebra cronjob should test whether a previous job is running or not
15:50 paul_p         a little bit slower, but works
15:51 paul_p         (another possibility I didn't try would be to do : SET FOREIGN_KEY_CHECK=0, then truncate biblio,biblioitems,items, then SET FOREIGN_KEY_CHECK=1
15:51 hdl_laptop     but at the moment doesnot do that.
15:51 magnusenger    hdl_laptop: actually, i don't have rebuild_zebra running from cron, but i have the two daemons, which may be the same thing?
15:51 paul_p         ( magnusenger you've 2 solutions for 1 problem ...)
15:52 magnusenger    paul_p: a "luxury problem" as we say in Norwegian...
15:52 hdl_laptop     magnusenger: mmm koha-zebraqueue-ctl.sh is really slow to index.
15:52 magnusenger    hdl_laptop: well, seems to do the job quite well for my customer with 13K records...
15:53 hdl_laptop     12000 biblios is not the same as 400000
15:53 magnusenger    hdl_laptop: am i right in thinking that koha-zebraqueue-ctl.sh could interfere with bulkmarcimport.pl in the same way as rebuild_zebra.pl?
15:54 magnusenger    hdl_laptop: true that! ;-)
15:55 magnusenger    so: i'll try deleting from biblio,biblioitems,items "by hand", stopping cronjobs and queue-daemons and then try to import/index again. Thanks for these tips!
16:12 bebbi          Jwagner: " I learned just enough German to travel in Germany without being totally lost if I needed directions or help." I think, that's enough ... some months ago in was in the rench speeking Swiss ... and i ask a postman if he can change my money ... but i cann't french and he only french ... :-(
16:37 jwagner        bebbi, Ich verstehe le probleme :-)
16:37 bebbi          :-)
17:14 Rob            Does anyone know of a Koha implementation in or around Zambia?
17:15 Melanie        Can anyone give me a KOHA library site that the amazon reviews work on?
17:29 brendan        Melanie http://demo.bywatersolutions.com
17:29 brendan        http://demo.bywatersolutions.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=12307
17:29 Melanie        thanks
17:37 chris          Melanie: do you have a syspref set for AWSPrivateKey ?
17:38 chris          since august, amazon have required that, and reviews simply dont work unless you have that set
17:40 chris          i just tested with mine http://opac.koha.workbuffer.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=6
17:40 chris          was getting no reviews until i set that system preference
17:40 * chris        will bbiab
17:42 * nengard      watching coda try to catch the annoying fly that has been nagging us
17:42 nengard        hehe
17:46 owen           nengard: I had a dog do that with a bee, and after that she was afraid of anything that flew and buzzed.
17:46 nengard        awwww :(
17:46 nengard        bees I get out of the house ASAP - flies I just ignore until they die
17:47 nengard        one of the things you learn to deal with with dogs - always opening and closing the doors
17:52 wizzyrea       oh, melanie
17:52 wizzyrea       you are on liblime, we don't have that option yet
17:53 wizzyrea       it's not in our codebase
17:53 wizzyrea       for the aws key
17:53 wizzyrea       NEKLS doesn't have it either.
17:53 wizzyrea       (very annoying)
17:55 * jdavidb      waves at wizzyrea.
18:06 * wizzyrea     waves at jdavidb "hiya!"
18:07 jdavidb        :)
18:09 Genji          And with liblime, no instant new features. you'll have to wait until they add it. Why are you using liblime?
18:09 wizzyrea       Gengi: we got in before it sucked.
18:10 Genji          Ah, and now your stuck with it, can't go back?
18:10 wizzyrea       Gengi: we're not particularly happy about the current state of affairs.
18:10 wizzyrea       Gengi: we are discussing our options at this point.
18:12 Genji          What features does liblime do that koha does not?
18:14 sekjal         Genji:  Liblime Enterprise Koha, their customers-only fork, has a new Acquisitions interface, support for MARC format for Holdings Data, and course reserves, apparently
18:14 wizzyrea       http://www.liblime.com/products/koha/liblime-enterprise-koha/llek-release-notes
18:14 sekjal         I assume it's got a few other unique features, as well
18:15 wizzyrea       http://www.liblime.com/products/koha/koha-solution-comparison
18:15 wizzyrea       do note that the comparison is for 3.0.0, not 3.0.4-5
18:15 wizzyrea       and certainly isn't comparable to current head.
18:16 sekjal         wizzyrea: I thought it was 3.0.2 they were running as "community"
18:16 sekjal         at any rate, it's getting more out of date by the day
18:16 wizzyrea       it may be, but that's not what they're comparing
18:16 wizzyrea       but I will double check
18:17 * Genji        laughs.. "They say "no vendor lock in" on the table under Enterprise edition."
18:17 wizzyrea       sorry, sekjal, you're right, they claim they are running 3.0.2
18:25 brendan        heya sekjal wizzyrea
18:25 wizzyrea       hey brendan
18:26 nengard        kind of funny huh Genji
18:29 Genji          Funny... no. false advertising, yes.
18:30 nengard        was being sarcastic - i'm with you on this
18:31 sekjal         hey, brendan
18:37 Genji          Im thinking, what does liblime think of all this chatter against liblime? do they even care?
18:38 wizzyrea       my theory is that they think they have the superior product, and much like Automattic did with Wordpress, they want their version to become the canonical version, releasing it free while using their proprietary version as their hosted version (like wordpress.com)
18:39 wizzyrea       and yea, I think they do probably care.
18:41 chris          cake and eat it too springs to mind
18:41 chris          aka being greedy dicks
18:42 * Genji        omg's. "Can't believe you actually said that. Never thought I'd see that on #koha.... now recorded for all postarity."
18:44 chris          yep, id say it to their face too
18:44 chris          they have made life much harder than it needs to be for hundreds of people
18:44 Genji          But you are right.... if they were a person, (in new zealand, companies become an entity, a legal person.. so lets play with it.) I'd call them egotistical, prideful, greedy ($299 for Koha Express, and then they want us to support it.), and self-serving.
18:44 chris          i think greedy dicks is actually quite mild
18:44 jdavidb        chris++
18:45 Genji          Thats $299 USD btw....
18:45 Genji          And then they want to charge for Koha Community Edition.
18:45 sekjal         technical question: I'm running a second installation of Koha (a dev install for testing, vs. my pre-existing production installation).  Apparently, for the second instance of Zebra, I need different ports
18:45 sekjal         is there a standard scheme for designating secondary Zebra ports?  Add 10,000 or something?
18:46 Genji          @karma liblime
18:46 munin          Genji: liblime has neutral karma.
18:46 Genji          liblime--
18:46 wizzyrea       lol
18:46 Genji          @karma liblime
18:46 munin          Genji: Karma for "liblime" has been increased 0 times and decreased 1 time for a total karma of -1.
18:46 Genji          @karma katipo
18:46 munin          Genji: katipo has neutral karma.
18:46 Genji          katipo++
18:46 Genji          Katipo wins.
18:47 wizzyrea       interesting that particular karma adjustment had never been done
18:47 Genji          Its probably never been thought of.
18:47 wizzyrea       oh I'm sure it has lol
18:47 wizzyrea       just not executed for whatever reason
18:47 Genji          Where was liblime before Koha?
18:48 sekjal         it wasn't
18:48 * chris        is waiting for a stock to list before he can go to work
18:48 chris          liblime grew out of athens county public library
18:48 Genji          And became a monster of its own.
18:49 wizzyrea       a fine enough institution, I might add
18:49 chris          the first US public library to run koha
18:49 Genji          Any members of the library still in liblime?
18:49 chris          and for the first couple of years they were awesome, we cant forget liblime did do a lot of good things
18:49 sekjal         they absolutely did
18:49 wizzyrea       ACPL still is hosted by LL
18:49 wizzyrea       for now
18:50 sekjal         its only the last several months that have been so horrid
18:50 chris          yeah since about this time last year
18:50 * Genji        loves the "for now" qualifier.
18:50 wizzyrea       i use that one a lot. :P
18:50 * chris        first met joshua in 2002, when he had long hair and talked about freedom
18:50 chris          i miss that joshua
18:50 Genji          But i mean, the development staff of liblime... any of them still part of ACPL?
18:50 wizzyrea       not that I am aware of
18:50 Genji          or vs versa?
18:51 chris          im not sure they have any development staff anymore
18:51 chris          all the ones i know have left
18:51 wizzyrea       well, there's kados and ryan
18:51 Genji          So...... its a dead horse.
18:51 owen           Josh left ACPL to start LibLime.
18:51 owen           No other ACPL people left.
18:51 wizzyrea       enough of a juggernaut by some estimations to hijack an entire open source ILS
18:51 chris          has anyone seen ryan ?
18:51 Genji          @seen ryan
18:52 munin          Genji: ryan was last seen in #koha 21 weeks, 5 days, 23 hours, 48 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: * ryan Ryan Higgins, LibLime
18:52 Genji          Not in recent history.
18:52 Genji          @seen joshua
18:52 munin          Genji: I have not seen joshua.
18:52 wizzyrea       @seen kados
18:52 munin          wizzyrea: I have not seen kados.
18:52 sekjal         @seen jmf
18:52 munin          sekjal: I have not seen jmf.
18:52 Genji          @seen Josh
18:52 munin          Genji: I have not seen Josh.
18:53 sekjal         @seen Titanic
18:53 munin          sekjal: I have not seen Titanic.
18:53 chris          263 days
18:53 sekjal         me neither
18:53 wizzyrea       pity.
18:53 wizzyrea       ;)
18:53 wizzyrea       @seen Star Trek
18:53 munin          wizzyrea: (seen [<channel>] <nick>) -- Returns the last time <nick> was seen and what <nick> was last seen saying. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent on the channel itself.
18:53 wizzyrea       aww
18:53 wizzyrea       i would get an error on that one
18:53 jdavidb        nice try, wizzyrea
18:53 wizzyrea       ty
18:53 wizzyrea       afk, lunch
18:53 * jdavidb      thumps munin on the forehead.
18:54 Genji          @seen genji-laptop
18:54 munin          Genji: genji-laptop was last seen in #koha 15 hours, 11 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <genji-laptop> anyway, got to go now. working on getting a cisco ip phone logged into asterisk. Thanks for the help and conversation, all.
18:55 * jdavidb      raises an eyebrow.
18:55 chris          sekjal: to answer you question, no, no standard scheme
18:56 chris          pick a port not in use :)
18:56 StarTrek       Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations; to boldly go where no man has gone before.
18:56 StarTrek       @seen StarTrek
18:56 munin          StarTrek: StarTrek was last seen in #koha 5 seconds ago: <StarTrek> Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations; to boldly go where no man has gone before.
18:56 chris          and it looks like your koha talk got accepted sekjal :)
18:56 Genji          Now, munin has seen startrek.
18:56 sekjal         chris:  thanks.  and yes, perhaps I did... haven't gotten an email one way or the other, but I'm hopeful
18:57 * jdavidb      groans.
18:57 sekjal         not that that would stop me from speaking; it just gives me 15 extra minutes
18:57 chris          :)
18:58 chris          ok stock is showing, time to catch my bus
18:58 chris          bbiab
18:59 sekjal         I had not looked at Kete too closely before, but I think I might want to roll it together with a home Koha install... its neat
19:02 brendan        yes Kete is very nice
19:09 sekjal         jdavidb: did you have any time to play with a turnkeylinux.org Koha appliance in the last week?
19:09 jdavidb        I've barely had time to do *laundry* in the last week.    It's been pretty brisk around here.
19:10 sekjal         jdavidb:  totally understand.  I'm trying to find ways of making my horrendous commute home more productive, and was looking into turnkeylinux
19:11 sekjal         I really want to do a home installation of Koha (and maybe now Kete), but I'm never home, and there isn't reliable internet on the train
19:11 jdavidb        I'd like to work on my commute, but it's too broken-up.  I could do a lot in virtual-boxes, maybe, but a fifteen-minute bus ride, and ten minutes standing on a train, then a five minute ride...naah.
19:12 sekjal         yeah, I suppose I do have some luck that my trip is only three legs, the middle being over an hour and a half
19:12 jdavidb        I wouldn't call that "luck" myself.
19:14 sekjal         its not a forever thing.... though I recall saying that a year ago....
19:14 jdavidb        heh.
19:46 chris          back
19:47 Genji          hmm.... you use 'screen' to keep the same irc session?
19:49 chris          yep
19:50 Genji          What is work, anyhow, chris? Catalyst website doesn't mention you.
19:51 chris          yeah there are 108 staff at catalyst, most of them aren't on the website
19:52 chris          i work on the fairfax team, doing stuff.co.nz (the infrastructure not the content)
19:52 chris          as well as koha work
19:53 sekjal         oooh, I get to talk up Koha to another area library.  I love that part of my job!
19:53 Genji          Ah cool!
19:53 Genji          (to both chris and sekjal.)
19:54 chris          sekjal: ohh excellent
19:55 sekjal         I'm drafting up my answers to their preliminary questions on selection, installation, and usage/reporting right now.
19:55 sekjal         I'm sure more will come up as we talk (always do)
19:58 bebbi          Hi. I want to use http://intranet.bywatersolutions.com/ (Username = bywater Password = bywater ) to try koha before installing. Do somebody of you know, why the Impotz with Z39.50 dosen't work?
19:59 brendan        yeah I've got an error on that server :)
19:59 bebbi          I get the error-information "Koha error
19:59 bebbi          The following fatal error has occurred:
19:59 bebbi          Can't call method "add_subfields" on an undefined value at /home/koha/kohaclone/cataloguing/addbiblio.pl line 141."
19:59 brendan        give me a sec and I can fix that up for you
20:02 bebbi          thx
20:05 Godzilla8NJ    Does anyone know if my browser crashed while doing a large import (under Manage import) did it rollback, continue or corrupt it?
20:05 bebbi          How long is your sec? :-) *kindly ask*
20:06 schuster       gozilla8nj - not sure - but you should be able to load it again and it won't do much depending on your match points usually it won't load items if they are already in the system.
20:08 Godzilla8NJ    schuster - thx. i'm importing almost 30k records (project gutenberg) and i'd hate to overload system by duplicating work if it's still running. any way to check?
20:09 Genji          Godzilla8NJ: Try 'top'
20:10 Godzilla8NJ    genji, pretty much a koha virgin here...using koha for a library school project...not sure what you mean by 'top'?
20:12 sekjal         godzilla8nj:  do you have command line access to your Koha installation?
20:12 Genji          Ahh. good question, sekjal.
20:12 Godzilla8NJ    i do.
20:13 sekjal         ah, good.  in that case, it might be easier for you to use bulkmarcimport.pl to do the initial data load
20:14 sekjal         its a commandline tool usually found in misc/migration_tools
20:14 Godzilla8NJ    fair enough, so: roll back my server, wget the pj marc zip, and bulk import it?
20:15 Godzilla8NJ    (pj = pg)
20:17 sekjal         I'd recommend that over the GUI import method.  Are the MARC records in the PG zip separate files, or in batches?
20:17 sekjal         bulkmarcimport.pl loads the contents of a single file at a time
20:20 Godzilla8NJ    it's a single batch file. i think that's the way to go. last question, i did this all before (imported pg records using bulk tool at cmd line) but when i added records i suddenly found myself staring at the following msg when i tried a search: Can't call method "as_usmarc" on an undefined value at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search.pm line 2133. Which I think has to do with indexing but am not sure.
20:22 sekjal         Godzilla8NJ: did you get this error only when you added more records, or after the initial bulk load?
20:23 Godzilla8NJ    i tried a gui import of several records, it failed, and i started seeing that.
20:23 sekjal         are you running Zebra, or without?
20:24 Godzilla8NJ    with.
20:25 sekjal         and you did the initial indexing after loading by running rebuild_zebra.pl -b?
20:26 Godzilla8NJ    did but after the crash it threw some errors. i felt lost, cold and alone so i just did a rebuild.
20:27 sekjal         did you have rebuild_zebra.pl running as a cron job every X minutes?
20:27 Godzilla8NJ    i did not, was just running it manually
20:27 sekjal         ok
20:28 sekjal         odd... its not apparent to me what caused search to stop working after you GUI-loaded those additional records... something about the MARC?
20:28 sekjal         file permissions, perhaps?  I'm speculating wildly
20:29 sekjal         were you always running rebuild_zebra.pl as your Koha user, or did you run it as another user at some point?
20:31 Godzilla8NJ    as another user
20:32 sekjal         that might be it; running it as a different user changes the ownerships of the files, and has tripped me up before
20:36 Godzilla8NJ    ah, ok. will be aware in the future. thx. going to try bulk import now. many thx to all.
20:37 sekjal         good luck, Godzilla8NJ!  let us know if you need any further assistance
20:55 jwagner        it
21:24 jransom        hi George
21:25 GeorgeSue      Hi Jo
21:26 jransom        Chris: you about
21:27 chris          yep
21:27 jransom        hey the koha meeting is friday night?
21:27 jransom        or tonight?
21:27 jransom        I saw on the wiki and the time convertor i checked said it would be tonight
21:28 Genji          What time, nz time?
21:29 sekjal         I think that's accurate; my calendar reads it early tomorrow morning, in about 12.5 hours.
21:29 chris          thats the devel meeting jo
21:29 chris          there are 2 meetings
21:29 chris          the devel meeting is at 11pm tonight
21:29 Genji          11pm nz time?
21:29 chris          yes
21:30 Genji          Sweet!
21:30 jransom        the message on my screen in this irc says its 3rd december
21:30 chris          thats the foundation meeting
21:30 wizzyrea       foundation forming
21:30 chris          | Next foundation forming meeting is scheduled at 19:00 UTC 3rd december
21:30 chris          thats a different meeting
21:31 chris          7am for us friday morning
21:31 chris          (us being nz)
21:33 jransom        I'd like to introduce George Sue
21:33 jransom        he is our library trustee who led the development of koha back in 1999
21:33 jransom        he is the HLT represntative who has been appointed to work with the koha community going forward
21:33 jransom        and I am hoping he will join us for the community meeting - so he is learning how to use irc :)
21:33 brendan        Hi GeorgeSue
21:33 brendan        welcome
21:33 sekjal         hello, GeorgeSue
21:33 wizzyrea       hi GeorgeSue :)
21:33 Genji          Cool Welcome GeorgeSue.
21:33 Genji          GeorgeSue++
21:34 * Genji        wonders if he can increase karma privately, instead of spamming channel.
21:34 jransom        (George won't know what ++ means :)
21:34 GeorgeSue      Hello to everyone in the Koha Community, I am just learning, please excuse
21:34 Genji          @karma GeorgeSue
21:34 munin          Genji: Karma for "GeorgeSue" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1.
21:35 Genji          @karma rach
21:35 munin          Genji: rach has neutral karma.
21:35 * Genji        huhs.....
21:35 Genji          @seen rach
21:35 munin          Genji: rach was last seen in #koha 9 weeks, 4 days, 14 hours, 55 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: * rach is contemplating a trip to guntur at christmas (which is near-ish to hyderabad)
21:36 Genji          @karma chris
21:36 munin          Genji: Karma for "chris" has been increased 78 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 78.
21:37 Genji          Not that anyone really keeps tabs on their karma.
21:37 wizzyrea       @karma wizzyrea
21:37 munin          wizzyrea: Karma for "wizzyrea" has been increased 21 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 21.
21:37 wizzyrea       except for me >.>
21:37 * Genji        facepalms.
21:37 wizzyrea       j/k
21:38 wizzyrea       gengi++ /for funniness
21:38 Genji          ....
21:38 Genji          its GenJi.... Genji..
21:38 * wizzyrea     faceepalms
21:38 wizzyrea       sorry sorry
21:38 Genji          Gengi in Icelandish means 'original meaning'
21:39 wizzyrea       Genji++ /for ... awesomeness?
21:40 Genji          Genji is japanese, meaning commoner. Its from the Tale of Genji, a first novel in history, written by Lady Murasaki Shikibu. About a son of a courtisan, and the emperor, which of course being an illegitamate child, he can't really be a prince. Yet, hes very much part of court life... so you get a fair understanding of what it was like, back then.
21:42 Genji          Huge book... I only read one volume of a two volume set... which I returned to the Kyoto Sanggyo University Office Library.. and then they shut up shop, so I can't ever read the same translation again....  unless I remember who translated it. Very fustrating.
21:42 wizzyrea       yikes, sounds frustrating
21:44 brendan        @wunder 93117
21:44 munin          brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 16.3�C (1:38 PM PST on December 01, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 11.0�C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012.1 hPa (Falling).
21:44 Genji          Translation was beautiful. Poems as original as possible to the original, while keeping all its cultural references in footnotes, instead of translating the poems as meaning, depriving it of cultural context.
21:46 chris          hi GeorgeSue
21:47 wizzyrea       oh that does sound nice. The japanese language definitely lends itself to poetry. Do you speak japanese?
21:47 Genji          Only a tiny bit.
21:48 Genji          Not enough to be convincing as to get a japanese person to mistake that I know japanese, and then talk over my head.
21:48 wizzyrea       hehe!
21:48 Genji          Wo betide someone who says 'moshi moshi' or 'Wei!' on the telephone in NZ.
21:48 * paul_p       heads to bed. Have a good day, morning, night, whatsoever #koha
21:48 brendan        night paul_p
21:49 chris          wei ni hao
21:49 chris          ni hao ma
21:49 Genji          wu leao.
21:49 * chris        has forgotten far more mandarin than he ever knew
21:49 * Genji        nodnods.
21:50 Genji          Did nightschool Chinese class a long time ago.
21:50 Genji          Japanese too.
21:50 schuster       see ya - won't be up at the meeting in the morning sorry can't wait to read about it when I get to work!  Just can't wait for it to be released really!
21:50 chris          mine is just from a couple of visits to china, have a little bit of cantonese from visits to hong kong
21:50 chris          my sister did her masters at shanghai university
21:51 Genji          OMG... you visited china. Cool. Ive never set foot out of the country.
21:51 chris          Japan too
21:52 chris          i made a deal with myself in my first year of uni, once i graduated i would travel overseas at least once every year
21:52 chris          i graduated with my 2nd degree in 97 and have managed to keep the deal :)
21:53 Genji          My coding isn't that good, to be of note, nor my diplomacy. So neither have I landed a well paying job nor become an ambassador for Koha.
21:53 Genji          So, travel is not likely.
21:54 chris          my first travel for koha, was to ohio
21:54 Genji          What doing?
21:54 chris          which i paid for from mileage points
21:54 chris          meeting with owen, stephen and joshua from ACPL
21:55 Genji          Cool.
21:55 chris          and presenting at the ohio library conference, and the thinklinunx conference in toledo
21:55 * chris        doesnt very often get paid to travel for koha
21:55 chris          i think 3 times
21:56 sekjal         sent in my first grant application for funding to go to KohaCon.  working on a couple more
21:57 chris          w00t
21:57 chris          ok, i gotta go do meetings and stuff
21:57 sekjal         cheers, chris
21:57 sekjal         I've got to get moving, myself.  groceries, train, kitchen
22:06 Genji          find  (rk=( kw,wrdl="school")) and yr,st-numeric=2008 gives me 'error: extra token' in a find (with lang ccl2rpn set).... whats wrong with it?
22:06 Genji          It looks right...
22:10 Genji          nevermind... oops. querytype.. not lang.
22:13 Genji          ahh... interesting... pubdate query doesn't work if st-numeric is specified...
22:25 Genji          and its a known problem in #koha.... was it fixed?
22:31 Genji          whats the proper way to do match if pubdate > year?
22:32 bebbi          Byebye :-)
23:20 Ian            ...would like the SQL for datelastborrowed <* or NULL.....getting screwy results from my efforts (eg changing the ccode's of the results)
23:23 Ian            forgot to say please :-(...
23:27 * chris_n2     sets up extra coffee for the meeting later/tomorrow
23:31 chris_n2       Ian: try SELECT * FROM items WHERE datelastborrowed < '2009-12-01' OR NULL;
23:34 Ian            thanks Chris...that's what i had but the OR seemed to trump the ccode criteria i had set. tried bracketing, still no
23:35 Ian            i will go nibble on toast...
23:40 chris_n2       Ian: 'SELECT * FROM items WHERE (datelastborrowed < '2009-12-01' OR NULL) AND ccode <> NULL\G' returns an empty set for me which is correct since all ccode's are NULL in my development db
23:50 Genji          melm 260$c      pubdate:y,pubdate:s,pubdate:n,pubdate:w,copydate,copydate:s .... this line correct? or is there a reason in this line, that my searching for a range or > <es fails?