Time Nick Message
23:53 brendan but that looks the same as the patch - i why I think that never was pushed
23:52 brendan type="audio/wav" autostart=true hidden=true loop=1 height=60 width=128 </embed>
23:52 brendan <EMBED src="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='themelang' -->/includes/sounds [ remove highlighting ]/error.wav"
23:52 brendan <!-- Play a sound if the item is bad-->
23:52 brendan The following code is added at line 143 of circulation.tmpl and line 241 of returns.tmpl
23:52 brendan A wave file will play when a bad barcode is entered in checkin or checkout.
23:52 brendan some old notes that I had -
23:50 chris someone would need to tidy them up and resubmit them
23:49 chris there are patches there
23:49 munin 04Bug 1080: enhancement, P2, ---, oleonard@myacpl.org, NEW, How about telling the template to make a noise on circulation errors?
23:49 chris http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1080
23:46 chris do you have a bug number?
23:46 chris you would have to ask galen that, ill do a quick search tho
23:46 chris s/dropped/withheld/
23:45 schuster Question - with all the thing that have been dropped... Are the sounds in circ still there for 3.2?
23:34 thd ftherese: Mention that you would be happy to convert a script designed for MARC 21.
23:33 ftherese ok... I'll keep that in mind
23:32 thd ftherese: Request anything which might help if you ask for UNIMARC that may scare away most response.
23:26 thd ftherese: If you have no success on the users' list after a few days, the try the devel list.
23:26 ftherese ok
23:25 thd ftherese: More people see that one.
23:25 thd ftherese: I would send a message to the user's or general list first.
23:24 ftherese should I mail the regular list or the dev. list?
23:23 thd ftherese: I have a script for capturing Koha MARC frameworks which could help if you find someone who wants to share his Koha MARC frameworks but does not know how.
23:20 thd ftherese: Requests for UNIMARC defaults such as better configured Koha UNIMARC frameworks from someone who would share might be best asked on the French Koha mailing list.
23:19 thd ftherese: There are some configuration issues which you may need to address for UNIMARC Koha because some of the defaults have left too much work for the librarian. You could ask for people to share those also.
23:17 ftherese ok
23:17 thd ftherese: Ask on the Koha mailing list. Other people have had the same problem and it is likely that someone would share a solution.
23:12 ftherese unless, for example, I could use the script to move - in one fell swoop - all the data in my filemaker databases directly into the koha catalog... I am afraid I would be backpeddling
23:11 thd ftherese: I think that the script did something useful with the exported data which is what you need.
23:10 ftherese no... I don't have a deadline
23:10 ftherese well... unless the filemaker script is REALLY REALLY good... I've already gone beyond needing help moving my data out of filemaker
23:10 thd ftherese: Are you referring to some deadline of yours?
23:09 thd ftherese: Why too late? What is too late?
23:09 ftherese too late for the filemaker script
23:09 thd ftherese: What do you mean by late?
23:08 ftherese unless the script was REALLY REALLY good
23:08 thd ftherese: I know all about Filemaker and its limitations. You would definitely be better off with Koha.
23:08 ftherese a bit late for that one...
23:07 ftherese hmmm...
23:07 thd ftherese: There had been an old script for importing from Filemaker for Koha 2.
23:06 ftherese but once I started I wouldn't be able to stop until I had it... so if there was a script for Marc 21 I could probably change it for UniMarc
23:05 ftherese so... in theory... yes... it might take me a few days... and frustration
23:05 ftherese I believe that is not a complete overestimation of my capacities
23:04 thd ftherese: If someone has a script which does what you want for MARC 21 you could fix it to work for UNIMARC.
23:04 pianohacker sounds rather like my understanding of spanish...
23:04 ftherese but, do something from scratch?!? expecially when I don't know the data structures!?!?!?
23:04 thd ftherese: Exactly.
23:03 ftherese and even tweak it
23:03 ftherese I mean... I can usually understand what a script does by looking at it
23:03 ftherese wow... laundry list of languages I don't know
23:03 ftherese nope
23:03 chris ruby?
23:02 ftherese <groan> no </groan>
23:02 thd ftherese: Do you know PHP?
23:02 ftherese pianohacker: just french and spanish
23:02 ftherese thd: no I don't know Python either... I have always hoped I could avoid those two...
23:02 slef heh http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/ramon/nuts/introannex_regions_en.html
23:01 thd ftherese: Do you know Python?
23:01 thd ftherese: If someone already has a script, then changing it would not be especially difficult even without real Perl knowledge.
22:57 pianohacker ftherese: What human languages do you speak, out of curiosity?
22:56 ftherese I speak many languages... but not perl :(
22:53 thd ftherese: Most likely their script would be for MARC 21 so you would simply need to make adjustments for UNIMARC.
22:52 thd ftherese: If you ask on the koha mailing list someone may already have a script for you.
22:51 thd ftherese: People use programs such as MARCEdit for many things but a GUI program such as MARCEdit may not give the level of control which you need.
22:50 thd ftherese: Writing your own Perl script to create the UNIMARC records from your CVS files using MARC::Record would be a very effective way to accomplish the task.
22:47 thd ftherese: You should write a script to take each item for a record and create a bibliographic record and within each bibliographic record a 995 for each item which has at least 995 $b $c $k and maybe $f if you have barcodes.
22:46 thd ftherese: You should write a script to take each item for a record and create a 995 which has at least 995 $b $c $k and maybe $f if you have barcodes.
22:42 ftherese I would need to filter it using the bulkmarkimport.pl script
22:42 ftherese right... but when I do the import how do I deal with that
22:42 thd ftherese: You can have them all in the bibliographic record by repeating the 995 field for holdings.
22:41 thd ftherese: Yes, do you not want to record the multiple copies?
22:40 ftherese so how do I deal with multiple copies of the same book?
22:40 thd ftherese: Or some large number last time I counted
22:40 thd ftherese: There are 16 different Thomas Manns in the Harvard libraries' collection.
22:38 ftherese lol
22:38 thd ftherese: The 700 authority form of the name disambiguates for all the other D H Lawrances of the world.
22:38 ftherese if I add the marc file... how can I tell it not to add duplicate item information
22:38 ftherese because I have several duplicates copies of books
22:37 ftherese ok... my problem is also for adding items correctly
22:37 thd ftherese: The above shows the use of both 200 $f and 700 in the same UNIMARC record.
22:36 thd ftherese: 200 1#$aSons and lovers $fby D H Lawrance. 700 #1$aLawrence$bD.H.$gDavid Herbert
22:36 thd ftherese: yes, bulkmarcimport.pl is in misc/migration_tools in the code repository and should also be in a similar subdirectory of wherever you installed Koha.
22:33 thd ftherese: bulkmarcimport.pl is in misc/migration_tools I believe
22:32 thd ftherese: I am not exactly certain of the procedure for taking material out of the reservoir because I avoid it.
22:32 Colin thd: I think that will be more marketing then reality.
22:32 ftherese where do I get that?
22:32 thd ftherese: If you use the bulkmarkimport.pl script then you can bypass all that reservoir nonsense.
22:31 ftherese I want to add them all... what do I do thd?
22:31 thd ftherese: You have to add records from the reservoir to the catalogue.
22:30 thd Colin: they could be different and yet use an API which had a unified dialogue on the front end with divergent code for the back end.
22:29 ftherese why is it that I have results in a reservoir, and none in the catalog?
22:29 Colin The two systems are totally different in structure
22:26 thd There is a very recent script which may cover both systems.
22:25 thd What I had read about the API is that it covered both Unicorn and Horizon.
22:25 chris awesome schuster
22:25 schuster I'll try and answer him tonight when I have a chance to read the post - as we migrated with LL help in Nov of 08 and went live in Jan 09
22:24 schuster Then API scripts won't matter as those are Unicorn.
22:24 Colin Horizon
22:24 schuster I have not read the post yet..
22:24 schuster Are they Horizon or Unicorn?
22:23 thd chris: I could point him to some recent migration work and refer him to a SirsDynix API script for migrating data out of the system.
22:23 chris the horizon libraries i have been involved in, were running old old versions
22:22 chris i was hoping someone who had recently migrated would speak up
22:22 chris nope, i just didnt have a right direction to point him
22:21 thd chris: There is a koha-devel question about migrating from Sirsi which has gone unanswered. Are you worried about painting a target on ourselves for non-library respondents to point him in the correct direction?
22:20 brendan :)
22:20 chris the one for getting into the gig yeah
22:20 brendan did you have a bracelet on?
22:19 chris was an awesome concert that
22:19 chris :)
22:19 brendan nice was thinking 5:56
22:19 chris brendan: somewhere roudn the 5.50 mark
22:18 chris :)
22:18 chris_n2 come and get it... ;-)
22:14 Nate k thats all bye for real
22:14 Nate By the way Chris that video is SWEET!
22:11 chris lemme find it again hehe
22:10 brendan the famous hand :)
22:10 chris not that one, but my hand is in this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SblTKIZoInI
22:08 Nate gnite #koha
22:08 brendan so the question is -- does chris appear anywhere in the video
22:05 brendan ahhh NZ - can't wait :)
22:02 chris heres the video im gonna use for the kohacon10 invites
22:02 chris http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wKhrEFzLfM
22:02 chris yeah
22:02 chris guess they must be just evaluating
22:02 Colin As a horizon user they are probably thinking about change
22:01 Colin It says powered by dynix in big letters
21:59 chris id look, but their website doesnt want to load
21:59 * chris_n2 cooks up breakfast
21:58 chris *nod*
21:58 brendan no idea -- but I have seen them poking around on the mailing list
21:57 chris so does the new mexico state libary use koha?
21:56 * wizzyrea goes to check for rotten tomatoes
21:54 pianohacker dangit, and I just used up the last of the whipped cream
21:54 chris h
21:54 chris he
21:53 wizzyrea oh OH a FUD fight!
21:52 cait ah
21:52 chris cait: fighting fud with fud
21:51 wizzyrea that is win all over the place
21:51 cait huh?
21:51 wizzyrea LOL
21:51 chris LEK doesnt support titles for books
21:51 chris oh i just noticed
21:51 wizzyrea much better
21:51 * wizzyrea demands precision!
21:51 * wizzyrea succumbs to a spelling fail
21:51 ricardo Bye pianohacker, chris, slef and wizzyrea! :)
21:50 * wizzyrea demands precisioin!
21:50 chris yeah, labelling with their full numbers is much more useful
21:50 wizzyrea (sorry, that's one I get on about because it's easy to be misled)
21:50 wizzyrea bye, ttyl :)
21:50 Colin boa noite
21:50 wizzyrea I think it's right, he labels them 3.0.1 "official release" or 3.01.00.32
21:49 pianohacker bye, ricardo, sleep well
21:49 pianohacker slef: hey, whatever works :P shell scripts ain't supposed to be pretty
21:49 ricardo Well, thanks for replying. Leaving now. Take care! :)
21:49 ricardo wizzyrea: OK
21:49 chris right
21:49 slef pianohacker: kill $(ps --ppid $$ --no-heading opid) inside the pipeline works. ewww ;-)
21:49 wizzyrea there's a download for 3.0.1 and for 3.01
21:48 wizzyrea and not a release
21:48 wizzyrea it must be based off of master
21:48 chris or its based off master branch, and not a release
21:48 wizzyrea or it's right and what he intended
21:48 ricardo pianohacker: LOL!
21:48 chris wizzyrea: so thats eitehr a typo
21:48 pianohacker *phew*
21:48 * pianohacker breathes out
21:48 pianohacker 3.01 != 3.0.1
21:48 wizzyrea :)
21:48 chris 3.0.x = stable 3.2.x = stable (they can be written as 3.00.x and 3.02.x .. 3.1 = 3.01)
21:48 wizzyrea that said, the download says 3.01
21:48 ricardo pianohacker: *nod*
21:47 wizzyrea so
21:47 ricardo chris: Like in Linux Kernel tradition, right? OK
21:47 wizzyrea pianohacker right
21:47 pianohacker 3.01 is the perl-version-number way of saying 3.1, which is the unstable of 3.2 by linux kernel standards
21:47 chris ricardo: odd second numbers are unstable
21:47 wizzyrea there's no official release for that
21:47 wizzyrea no sir, I mean 3.01
21:47 pianohacker wizzyrea: There's a possibility for confusion: current git version numbers are like 3.01.00.061
21:47 ricardo wizzyrea: I think you mean "3.1"... and it seems that we are moving directly towards "3.2". But I admit I'm paying more attention to 3.0.x
21:47 chris but there has never ever been an 3.01.x release
21:46 wizzyrea ok, yes
21:46 chris 3.01.01 would be an upgrade
21:46 pianohacker chris: yeah
21:46 nengard are you?
21:46 wizzyrea am I high?
21:46 chris much more salient thing to remember than guy fawkes :)
21:46 wizzyrea ricardo: i'm not sure, 3.01 is claimed to be an upgrade from 3.0.4, whereas 3.0.1 would be a downgrade from 3.0.4
21:46 chris Then in 1881 it was the scene of one of the worst infringements of civil and human rights ever committed and witnessed in this country.
21:45 ricardo pianohacker: I think I know a good joke about that, but it's in cartoon form (difficult to search)
21:45 ricardo pianohacker: LOL!
21:45 pianohacker I guess that's why they don't pay me the big bucks
21:45 ricardo wizzyrea: 3.01 = 3.0.1 I believe. But thanks :)
21:45 chris "The invasion of the settlement on the 5th of November 1881 by 1500 militia and armed members of the constabulary was the result of greed for MÄori owned land and the quest for power by politicians and settlers. Parihaka had become a haven for the dispossessed from througout the country."
21:45 pianohacker never have quite understood the funding model of my library
21:45 wizzyrea 3.01
21:45 wizzyrea sorry
21:45 wizzyrea er
21:45 wizzyrea ricardo: actually it appears that the virtual appliances are 3.0.1
21:44 chris http://www.parihaka.com/About.aspx
21:44 pianohacker ricardo: Hey, so am I (technically)
21:44 chris personally i use the 5th to remember parihaka instead
21:44 ricardo pianohacker: Hey, I'm a public servant, you insensitive clod! ;-)
21:43 ricardo wizzyrea: :)
21:43 pianohacker s/parliament/any government building/g
21:43 * wizzyrea makes a mental note to break out V for Vendetta tomorrow
21:43 chris :)
21:43 Colin The only man ever to enter parliament with honest intentions
21:43 wizzyrea ooh yes
21:43 ricardo chris: Nice... Always a good day to (re)watch "V for Vendetta" ;-)
21:43 brendan oh right cool
21:42 chris guy fawkes day
21:42 brendan fireworks?
21:42 chris remember remember the 5th of november
21:42 ricardo chris: LOL!
21:42 chris in between fireworks
21:42 chris yeah, i have a backlog of mail i have to reply to, will try to tonigh
21:42 ricardo OK. Leaving towards home now... Take care everyone :)
21:42 chris righto
21:41 ricardo chris: I have to use that information for replying to Jaqueline (she replied me off-list , meaning off the "Koha Translate" list). I won't be able to reply today, though
21:41 ricardo chris: yeah.
21:41 chris probably, it is a little bit old now
21:40 ricardo http://sourceforge.net/projects/koha-tools/files/Koha%20Virtual%20Appliance/
21:40 ricardo It seems to be 3.0.1
21:40 chris the about page would tell ya
21:40 ricardo Does anyone know what Koha version is installed in Kyle Hall's Virtual Machines?
21:37 chris night hdl
21:36 Colin gnight hdl
21:34 pianohacker good night, hdl
21:34 hdl good night
21:27 cait thx Colin :)
21:27 Colin I will. I added your bug number to the commit as well
21:26 cait we should mark one og the bugs as duplicate
21:26 Colin Yes or if you put a barcode on a book but it never got added to the db
21:23 cait Colin: I think its not only about misreads, but could also happen when an item is accidently deleted from koha
21:20 Colin some units validate the barcode some dont and pass the misreads
21:19 cait wizzyrea: dont know :) I think it does not happen very often, we discovered in testing, I had a test case for that. did not happen in the library so far.
21:17 wizzyrea (which either means all of the barcodes are in the system or we've just been really lucky(
21:17 wizzyrea they work very well, we haven't even heard reports of the invalid barcode problem
21:16 wizzyrea ours are 3M RFID machines
21:15 cait we did a lot of testing, we provided test cases and got feedback from easycheck.
21:13 cait its a german vendor - easycheck
21:13 cait they have one self check out station for check out and check in, no sorting, just a shelf for check ins, we dont allow renewals, this seemed to be problematic
21:13 Colin Who supplies the self check units
21:13 cait sorry, dont know if I understand your question correctly
21:12 * ricardo sighs because of data migration project work (to get data from proprietary system, using non-standard format, into Koha)
21:12 Colin cait: what units are connected?
21:11 cait wizzyrea: self check works really good for our library - no phone calls so far and 750 checkouts and 500+ check ins - only 2 small bugs I know of, this is one of them
21:11 Colin thats patch not path
21:10 Colin cait: yes it is the same. path coming
21:09 cait yes, I think they are
21:08 wizzyrea cait: those bugs look extremely similar to me
21:08 pianohacker if the context isn't super-crucial, probably good enough
21:07 pianohacker bit of a race condition, tho
21:07 ricardo wizzyrea: :)
21:07 pianohacker slef: A quick test says that they _usually_ do
21:07 wizzyrea HEHEHE
21:07 cait dont know if the humor was intended
21:07 ricardo wizzyrea: I think it should be "checking in invalid item causes break of comm NO CARRIER" ;-)
21:06 sekjal good <localtime>, #koha
21:06 slef pianohacker: do pipelines always have consecutive PIDs?
21:06 wizzyrea humor in bug reports. I like it
21:06 sekjal hmmm, time to grab some groceries and head home to cook them.
21:06 ricardo wizzyrea: LOL
21:06 pianohacker slef: It looks like your trick would probably be the easiest
21:06 wizzyrea ooh, I like the description of that second one
21:06 chris_n bbl
21:05 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3696 major, P3, ---, joe.atzberger@liblime.com, NEW, checking in invalid item causes break of comm
21:05 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3767 enhancement, P5, ---, joe.atzberger@liblime.com, NEW, Invalid barcodes in checkin cause sip connection to terminate
21:05 cait Colin: I just saw your bug 3767, is it possible its the same bug reported by easycheck (vendor from our koha library) bug 3696)?
21:05 slef no trickery, just & on end of line
21:04 slef pondering doing wait $! ; kill $(expr $! - 1)
21:04 pianohacker slef: If you moved the backgrounded pipe into its own process, either by making a separate script or by some other trickery, you could simply background the separate process, then only have one thing to kill
21:04 chris_n sekjal: the present method of storing barcodes is rather problematic
21:03 sekjal the two barcodes got concat'ed into the barcode field (separated by " | "), and cut off after 30 char
21:03 cait Colin?
21:02 thd Multiple barcodes per item could be useful and often exist in the real world
21:02 sekjal thd: agreed. my old ILS allowed multiple barcodes, and now some of our items aren't scanning right
21:02 slef pianohacker: this is a scripted thing
21:01 SelfishMan I've worked with our director to figure out an option that should work fine though
21:01 pianohacker slef: Hmm. is this a one-time thing? If not, you could use pgrep -f
21:01 wizzyrea i mean, we make our libraries issue new cards for exactly this reason
21:01 SelfishMan brendan: Yeah, the MT state library is pretty bad for that
21:01 thd We should have a way of tracking multiple barcodes
21:01 slef pianohacker: complication: other_pid is the first process in a backgrounded pipe. How to get its pid?
21:01 SelfishMan As a library that is being pressured to renumber our collection I can say that we aren't in a rush to switch as it will cost us about $75k
21:00 brendan yup that is correct if I understand correctly
21:00 chris yeah i basically replied and said, i dont think this is a koha issue, koha doesnt force you to use any particular barcode regime
21:00 chris_n chris: sounds like a branch issue to me
21:00 pianohacker slef: I'd go with an while ps ax | grep pid; sleep reasonable_amount_of_time; done; kill other_pid
20:59 brendan ie. a global database for montana
20:59 wizzyrea sekjal: yes, it requires rebarcoding, and they only do it in extreme circumstances
20:59 brendan I think lee is asking weither she should listen to the state library and rebarcode her collection for the future
20:59 Colin its not a project to undertake lightly (seen it done, wrote some support software)
20:58 slef a barely koha-related question for all the sysadmins: what's the best way of killing process A when process B exits?
20:58 chris yeah it doesnt sound like a koha problem
20:58 sekjal wouldn't most libraries refuse to do that unless forced?
20:58 sekjal wouldn't changing barcodes in a library require reprocessing all the items?
20:58 chris yes
20:58 sekjal Aren't barcodes usually physically printed and stuck to the material?
20:58 wizzyrea probably more like what ricardo is saying
20:57 chris ill reply saying huh?
20:57 wizzyrea oh right
20:57 ricardo chris: [Koha-Patches] s/he/she ;-)
20:57 wizzyrea :P
20:57 chris lee from montanan wizzyrea :)
20:57 wizzyrea s/he
20:57 chris its a she :)
20:57 slef (current internet link fun is wholesaler claiming that my router is consistently interpreting electrical interference as LCP TermReq, which looks pretty impossible in the source code)
20:57 ricardo wizzyrea: Maybe he wants something like a GUID (Globally Unique Identifiers)
20:56 wizzyrea s
20:56 wizzyrea so every koha install has unique barcode
20:56 slef wizzyrea: I've got something like that with my internet link too. Benefit of FOSS is you can go "here is the source code. Can you explain how it's broken because it passes the test suite and I just can't see it?"
20:56 wizzyrea I think he's wanting perhaps there to be random generated barcode seed?
20:55 Colin I was tempted to reply. I thought this was fixed 20/30 years ago
20:55 thd Standards documents could never contradict one another, especially not within the same document. :)
20:55 wizzyrea we ended up fixing koha
20:55 chris off topic, did anyone understand lee's question about barocdes on the mailing list?
20:54 wizzyrea we had a deal where one side said "Koha is broken" and the other said "the product is broken"
20:54 ColinC Some of the documents have been lost in corporate offices too
20:54 slef I've already two unresponsive supplier developments with RFID and EDI. Share and enjoy.
20:54 wizzyrea slef: oi, no kidding
20:54 slef I'm happy ColinC is working on SIP. Some of the docs contradict each other, some machines seem not to follow them anyway and hardware suppliers are not very responsive.
20:52 chris_n ColinC++
20:52 thd ftherese: are you there?
20:52 chris wizzyrea: ah well, it's probably best she knows
20:52 chris_n slef:lol
20:52 pianohacker fek sounds like a canadian curse word
20:52 chris ColinC++
20:52 wizzyrea I think HLT is pursuing private talks with the asset owner.
20:52 ColinC I know the protocol well. I'm gathering & posting some patches for oops in it
20:51 slef chris_n: FORK or FEK?
20:51 davi good
20:51 pianohacker davi: the official jargon is "restore ownership of koha.org to the community"
20:51 chris hehe
20:51 * sekjal stops again, breathes again, ratchets it back more forcefully
20:50 wizzyrea colin: I didnt realize sip2 was partially your baby too
20:50 davi What will be the steps we will follow to take over koha.org?
20:50 wizzyrea she has been having nuts problems with her sip2 and magnetic media wiping
20:50 sekjal but all the spin, misreprentation, and outright lies... that's why I get so worked up over this
20:50 wizzyrea melanie was here
20:50 wizzyrea oh drat
20:50 pianohacker and then there's "offline circulation", but that's been there for a while
20:49 * brendan *sigh*
20:49 chris_n fork vs FORK maybe
20:49 ricardo chris: *nod*
20:49 chris sekjal: yes, its less a fork, more an attempted hostile takeover
20:49 sekjal codebases fork; its part of life, and a fundamental part of our version control system
20:49 chris heh
20:49 sekjal that's what this whole fork issue is really all about; who gets to control what people know to be "Koha"
20:48 ColinC by coincidence I've just posted a bug in sip2 fix coming
20:48 chris yes
20:48 chris_n we are effectively suffering damages due to misrepresentation
20:48 chris sekjal: its in main koha
20:47 wizzyrea not to mention that somewhere, someone is saying koha isn't sip2 compliant, which is laughably false
20:47 * chris_n agrees
20:47 * sekjal stops, breathes, dials it back down
20:47 chris its important we know that this kind of thing is happening
20:47 chris_n bye owen
20:47 wizzyrea I just felt the need to share my irritation about almost being denied a grant over misleading marketing
20:47 pianohacker bye, owen
20:46 owen See y'all tomorrow
20:46 pianohacker wizzyrea: we're self-stirring
20:46 chris im glad you brought it up
20:46 * owen had better quit before he gets too worked up ;)
20:46 sekjal what the heck is "Patron loading"?
20:46 wizzyrea :(
20:46 wizzyrea sorry I didn't mean to stir that up
20:46 pianohacker of course!
20:45 owen pianohacker: Yes, but then they rewrote every line of code to eliminate every bug.
20:45 chris basically we need control of www.koha.org back
20:45 wizzyrea I know. they say lots of misleading things.
20:45 pianohacker especially given that LEK is developed off HEAD
20:45 owen LibLime now sees the open-source version of Koha purely in "official release" terms
20:45 wizzyrea pianohacker: they say lots of things
20:44 pianohacker when so many koha users are running off git
20:44 slef is there an independent SIP test-suite?
20:44 * pianohacker finds it very odd that 3.0.x is being pushed as community
20:44 sekjal that bloody comparison chart.... very misleading. Is it even true if "Koha Community" = 3.0.2?
20:43 wizzyrea yea, I was thinking about that actually
20:43 chris wizzyrea: maybe drop atz a note
20:43 wizzyrea priceless: "The mayor, who was cycling past, stopped and chased the girls down the street, calling them 'oiks'. "
20:42 wizzyrea slef: the headline alone
20:42 wizzyrea I mentioned that I wouldn't personally take any claims from that certain vendor very seriously.
20:42 * slef boggles at the completely unrelated http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/london-mayor-chases-would-be-attackers-on-bike-23846
20:42 nengard okey dokey
20:41 wizzyrea from one of their representatives
20:41 wizzyrea so you may see a post to the koha list re: sip2 compliance
20:41 wizzyrea nengard: nothing to be done about it really. I think we set them straight
20:41 chris thats stooping even low than usual
20:41 wizzyrea rhcl: oh good
20:41 nengard wizzyrea once again sorry you're dealing such stuff :(
20:41 * chris boggles !!!!
20:40 wizzyrea yea, you know, that NEKLS paid for and is mostly in the project already
20:40 rhcl BTW, we had an excellent visit in Atchison.
20:40 owen "Enhanced SIP2" ?
20:40 wizzyrea not sure how the money would work out but we like having biggish libraries in our consortium
20:39 wizzyrea rhcl: well, actually... you'd have to talk to my boss about that (lol)
20:38 * jdavidb thinks of a paraphrase of Mark Twain: There are lies, damn lies, and...
20:38 wizzyrea colin: I will remember you said that :)
20:38 wizzyrea you know, the notorious table of features
20:38 Colin wizzyrea: any SIP issues feel free to punt them in my direction
20:38 wizzyrea they consulted a certain vendor's website, yes
20:38 ricardo wizzyrea: OK, thanks
20:38 rhcl Is that an invitation?
20:38 owen Is said vendor saying this in reference to LEK?
20:38 wizzyrea still evaluating
20:37 wizzyrea ;)
20:37 ricardo wizzyrea: And they accepted it after that -or- are they still evaluating it?
20:37 wizzyrea well, are you coming into NExpress?
20:37 rhcl_away Did you leave any money for us?
20:37 wizzyrea not sure what they're smoking
20:37 wizzyrea because it's working right now
20:37 wizzyrea yes, we convinced them to take a second look
20:37 owen "almost deny" ?
20:36 wizzyrea ok, we just had a grant funding board almost deny our grant because they say someone *cough formerly the only us vendor cough* said that community koha wasn't SIP compliant
20:36 hdl really awfully sorry.
20:36 ricardo ftherese: Using other words -> A record will (almost) always have 200$f filled in. Besides that, it *may* also have some 7XX fields filled in, if you're using Authorities
20:36 hdl I missed you all.
20:35 wizzyrea hdl: we missed you :)
20:35 ricardo ftherese: You're welcome :)
20:35 ftherese ok... thanks ricardo
20:34 ricardo hdl: LOL! Happens to the best :)
20:34 ricardo ftherese: Yes... You do want those (200$f and 200$g)... but you may also want 7XX (if you want to use "Authorities" for people's names, in order to find that Joseph Ratzinger and Pope Benedict XVI are the one and same person)
20:34 hdl chris : I forgot the meeting.
20:33 hdl ... anyaone there ?
20:32 ftherese I think I want 200$f and 200$g
20:32 ricardo ftherese: "Authorities are much wider than just the dude who wrote the book" - agreed. They are also used for "Subjects" as well, for example
20:31 ftherese Authorities are much wider than just the dude who wrote the book... I take it... I am looking for just a marc number that works for 1. "the main dude who wrote the book, and who should get the most credit." and then 2. etc. "other dudes who also kinda helped out or something"
20:26 ricardo ftherese: 7XX is for linking names to "Authorities"
20:26 ricardo ftherese: LOL!
20:26 ftherese I hope people know they become intellectually responsible for something when they write it!!!
20:26 thd ftherese: 7XX is for the official name.
20:25 ftherese lol @ 7-- Intellectual Responsibility Block
20:25 thd ftherese: 200 $f is for the first statement of responsibility 200 $g is for additional statements of resposibility
20:24 ftherese ahhh
20:23 pianohacker brb foodz
20:23 thd ftherese: 200 1#$aThree adventures of Asterix$iAsterix in Switzerland$ftext by Goscinny$gdrawings by Uderzo$gtranslated by Anthea Bell and Derek Hockridge.
20:23 slef I saw Aussie rules football on tv yesterday. The channel name was something completely unrelated, though, like "Real Estate TV"
20:22 thd ftherese: That is a mistaken help message left from Koha 1.9
20:22 pianohacker hell, you play cricket
20:22 chris nzers will play any sport tho
20:22 ftherese thd: I am looking at the koha to Marc links in the administration section, and I see no other author input blancs other than the 200$f. Why is that?
20:22 chris pianohacker: wellington has 2 teams
20:21 davi Australians?
20:21 pianohacker that's sad
20:20 pianohacker Hahaha, there's actually people outside the US that care about american football?
20:19 slef pianohacker: and conversely, rumours are that the NFL is going to get a European team.
20:19 pianohacker us_centric_naming++
20:19 slef chris: hopefully one match :)
20:19 ftherese christ_n: I didn't use it with a scanner, I converted old book scans in pdf format to pdm (I think it was ) and It usually did work pretty well, even with french text
20:19 chris slef: will probably still lose :)
20:19 slef chris: did you see, their rugby team have resorted to playing English club teams?
20:19 pianohacker slef: reminds me of the "world" series
20:19 chris :-)
20:18 chris slef: they are probably out practicing bowling underarm
20:18 slef chris: say that when they're awake
20:18 thd ftherese: The statement of responsibility in UNIMARC $200 is only for transcribed authorship statements
20:18 chris_n heh
20:18 ricardo chris: LOL!
20:18 chris no one cares about AU
20:18 slef chris_n: I think most of us do at the moment.
20:18 ricardo chris_n: Sure. Portugal does DST (as do some other countries).
20:18 slef pianohacker: European Summer Time, Eastern Standard Time (US) and Eastern Standard Time (AU)
20:18 tajoli BUT as are written in frontpage
20:18 chris_n slef: I think some European countries do DST as well
20:17 pianohacker slef: well, exactly
20:17 slef pianohacker: we get the additional fun of "which EST is that?" sometimes.
20:17 ricardo ftherese: http://www.unimarc.info/bibliographic/2.3/en/200
20:17 tajoli authors/editors
20:17 chris_n ftherese, thd: I run tesseract integrated with xsane and they work great together
20:17 tajoli In unimarc 200$f and 200 $g are for all aut
20:17 ftherese I don't see any koha fields for them?
20:17 ftherese so where do the other ones go?
20:17 slef pianohacker: so? We have to decode US times more than you get to decode UTC.
20:16 pianohacker I think it's mainly DST that screwed people up this time, but...
20:16 ricardo ftherese: Nope... You should get only one entry in 200$f I think
20:16 ftherese or do they all get 200$f?
20:16 slef I mean, most countries are in only one timezone.
20:16 pianohacker slef: you are a lot closer to gmt than we are
20:16 ftherese what about the other authors?
20:16 chris_n slef: lol
20:15 * pianohacker shrugs
20:15 chris_n thd: not sure
20:15 slef pianohacker: why are people in the US less competent at telling the time?
20:15 ftherese plus it is open
20:15 thd chris_n: I wonder how it does with CAPTCHA.
20:15 ftherese it does work well
20:15 chris_n http://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/
20:15 ftherese chris_n wow! They use tesseract?! I compiled that fo use with linux a few years ago
20:15 thd chris_n: Oh yes, I had experimented with that slightly.
20:15 pianohacker slef: Well, all of the developers, yes. :) I'll just follow up the meeting notices with a quick run-through of times in the US myself
20:15 ricardo ftherese: Yes, for the author mentions, as they appear in the book cover (that's my understanding, at least)
20:14 chris_n thd: supposed to be some of the best and its FOSS
20:14 chris_n thd: tesseract is the engine google uses (old HP code iirc)
20:14 ftherese ok... always trying to find better ways to use the unimarc classification... koha Field author 200$f should I be using that one?
20:14 ricardo chris: *nod* It's just that more people are starting to adopt / want to adopt Koha here in Portugal, and I would feel more safe if we could get the "bugfix releases" more tested, that's all
20:14 slef pianohacker: everyone has access to one of those. There were also "world time" links in some announcements.
20:13 pianohacker slef: that command _is_ very useful, but is somewhat limited to those with access to a linux command line
20:13 chris ricardo: your questions are about 1.5 years to late for 3.0.x :-)
20:12 slef pianohacker: I added date -d @123123123 to some notices, but that seems to have stopped
20:12 thd chris_n: I have no idea about the basis of the software but their are postal system hackers who test its limits.
20:12 pianohacker bye, danielg, see you at next meeting
20:12 chris otoh for 3.2 we will have alphas and betas
20:12 danielg bye-bye
20:12 chris ricardo: nope its a bugfix for a stable release
20:12 wizzyrea lol chris
20:12 nengard bugs reported and one assigned to me - now to remember how to connect via FTP to my local virtual machine ...
20:12 * pianohacker thinks we should add all 4 US timezones plus nzst to meeting notices (maybe just the us, it only seems to be us that get caught out)
20:12 chris cos frankly, the name is awesome
20:12 ricardo chris: Which reminds me (forgot to talk about this during the meeting, damn...) - should we have some "Beta" and/or "RC" stage for 3.0.5, before 3.0.5 final (to see if we can attract people that would test it, but don't have / aren't accostumed to git / git snapshots)?
20:11 chris_n thd: is it tesseract based?
20:11 chris but i use 'Petes Parcels' a lot
20:11 thd chris: US Postal Service uses OCR to read envelopes which can interpret CAPTCHA images perfectly.
20:11 chris most people still use NZ post for domestic mail
20:11 chris_n opps
20:11 chris_n deregulation++
20:10 chris thd: we also have deregulated mail service
20:10 magnusenger chris: heh, that sounds a bit like norway ;-)
20:10 chris it would get there
20:10 chris thd: i could send a letter, Aunty Dawn, Brunswick Road, Wanganui
20:10 danielg same here
20:09 schuster phoey guess I'll read the log.
20:09 ricardo chris: Agreed... But it's hard for me to test 3.0.x branch as it is (to find bugs before they reach 3.0.5 and such). I won't be able to do the testing for both branches, but I guess (and hope!) that other people can do that
20:09 chris thd: some, not most
20:09 chris schuster: you missed it .. daylight savings caught you out
20:09 danielg hi schuster
20:09 schuster Howdy!
20:09 thd chris: Do you have barcodes printed at the base of envelopes when they arrive?
20:09 schuster David Schuster - Plano ISD
20:08 chris its not hard to find someone
20:08 chris_n hi schuster
20:08 chris but it also has only 4 million people
20:08 chris thd: yep
20:08 thd chris: does NZ have automated mail handling?
20:08 chris ie 3.0.x was tested before the 3.0.0 release
20:08 nengard grr - okay i'm off to edit the template for the cities/towns page so that it's clear what to add in the form
20:08 * pianohacker threatens 3.0 with overgrown, beastly sysprefs editor
20:08 chris ricardo: you are supposed to test it before a stable release not after :-)
20:07 owen nengard: it works if you populate it with the right data!
20:07 chris ricardo: development on 3.2 has been going on for a year now ;)
20:07 cait owen: country not state
20:07 chris_n nengard++
20:07 nengard we need ot make it clear that the city field if for city, state
20:07 danielg hi to all saying hi to me!
20:07 ricardo chris: Right, agreed. I'm just wondering if we shouldn't let people test Koha 3.0.x more intensely before moving development efforts to 3.2... but I won't make a fuss about this
20:07 nengard owen and chris - and all - basically the cities, towns is not 100% useful
20:07 owen I thought that someone recently added a state field to the table?
20:07 chris we do have postcodes, no one uses them though
20:07 pianohacker interesting. hi, danielg
20:06 owen nengard: In the past Koha stored everything as "Athens, OH," city+state in the same field.
20:06 chris yep
20:06 pianohacker chris: just cities?
20:06 sekjal hey, danielg!
20:06 chris we dont have states or zips so its never been an issue for me :)
20:06 nengard off to play with it a bit
20:06 nengard thanks chris - good to know i'm not alone
20:06 chris ricardo: then you could submit it, and say, "this might apply on master also, but i havent tested"
20:05 chris nengard: i have no idea about your question
20:05 ricardo chris: Even if I *don't* have a master setup (code + database) but I do have a 3.0.x setup?
20:05 chris hiya danielg :)
20:04 chris and note if they also apply in 3.0.x
20:04 chris ricardo: yep if you find any bugs that exist in master, you should patch against master
20:04 ricardo danielg: Welcome then :)
20:04 thd slef: Having people believe that they can still vote with the current shortly after 12 September text is a problem.
20:04 ricardo s/where the tests/where the tests *and* bugs
20:04 danielg daniel grobani here, first IRC experience ever
20:04 ricardo chris: Well, that depends on who is doing the tests and where the tests are :)
20:04 chris ricardo: hdl and spent a few nights porting about 300+ patches from master to 3.0.x before 3.0.4
20:03 chris_n tnx gmcharlt
20:03 chris and ported back to 3.0.x (not the other way)
20:03 chris ricardo: the bugs in 3.0.x are specific to it, any 3.2 ones are fixed in master
20:03 nengard i have a question from writing docuemntation - cities and towns asks for city and zip - but not state - how is this data stored - cause on the patron record it's the city, state line that the pull down appears next to.
20:03 nengard sorry all, thought the meeting was over guess I missed the part where we started discussing stuff again - anyway - I have a question now that I think the meeting is over :)
20:03 thd slef: you should update the wiki relicensing ballot to state closing by 2 December.
20:03 ricardo gmcharlt++
20:03 davi ack
20:02 gmcharlt davi: I think we'll be going with 10:00 UTC+0 on the 2nd
20:02 davi same hours?
20:02 rafael bye
20:02 ricardo chris: how so?
20:02 gmcharlt thanks to all for participating, and we'll meet again on 2 December
20:02 chris nope
20:02 ricardo Question: wouldn't Koha 3.2 development benefit for waiting for some tests & fixes for 3.0.x?
20:01 gmcharlt OK, I think we've covered everything for this meeting
20:01 ricardo chris: OK, thanks
20:01 chris nope that is fine ricardo
20:01 nengard np
20:01 gmcharlt nengard: hold that thought a second, please
20:01 ricardo chris: Like I said, I'll probably have to send you an updated Portuguese PO (during this or next week). Will this hurt your plans?
20:00 nengard i have a question from writing docuemntation - cities and towns asks for city and zip - but not state - how is this data stored - cause on the patron record it's the city, state line that the pull down appears next to.
20:00 chris i suspect 3.0.5 will be the last 3.0.x release
20:00 tajoli dix/fix
20:00 chris and then you guys have to translate, and then we are ready
20:00 chris i just have to update the .po
20:00 tajoli corret, I see the dix
20:00 chris yep, fixed now
20:00 ricardo tajoli: It is, but I believe hdl is submitting patches for correcting that bug
19:59 tajoli OK
19:59 chris tajoli: yes that is the main fix for 3.0.5
19:59 ricardo chris: OK, thanks for the info
19:59 chris when i update the templates ill call a string freeze
19:59 tajoli missing submit buttons not translated is a bug for me
19:59 pianohacker chris_n: it'll mostly consist of pestering people about bugs that are lacking info; I'm an expert at pestering
19:59 chris not yet
19:59 ricardo chris: Any "freeze dates" for 3.0.5 already?
19:59 davi http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:roadmap3.0 ?
19:59 tajoli 3.0.5 will have also bugfixes ?
19:58 chris there were some missing submit buttons not translated, which 3.0.5 will fix
19:58 chris slef: its only bugfixes from now
19:58 chris i can speak a little to that, there will be a 3.0.5 release in the near future i have to tidy up some translation issues
19:58 slef well, does anyone know where the current 3.0.x roadmap is?
19:58 ricardo (*nod* pianohacker++ fdemians++)
19:58 gmcharlt ricardo: yes, it would depend on hdl unless chris has something to say about 3.0.x
19:57 ricardo Question: are we still going to talk about Koha 3.0.x roadmap in this meeting? Or can't we do it because hdl is silent now?
19:57 * chris_n tries to imagine pianohacker in boots and chaps
19:57 thd fdemains++
19:56 thd pianohacker++
19:56 ricardo Colin: :)
19:56 ricardo sekjal: Sure (+1)
19:56 Colin ditto to ricardo's comment
19:56 chris_n +1
19:56 gmcharlt sekjal: +1
19:55 ricardo gmcharlt: Fine, by me... I won't be able to attend it, but I don't think that it should be changed because of me
19:55 davi ack thd
19:55 tajoli +1
19:55 sekjal so, a cutoff date of, say Nov 15th for objections?
19:55 thd davi: The exact form is undecided. Imprecise language as slef said.
19:55 chris_n +1
19:55 rafael for me is ok
19:55 gmcharlt I'd say that if we don't hear objections in the next week or so, we'll run with 19:00 UTC+0 for the foundation meeting
19:54 davi ok ok
19:54 slef davi: first move is to HLT, a trust.
19:54 davi ack
19:54 chris_n 19:00 UTC was set on the condition that there were no objections
19:53 slef davi: no, not yet. slopply language on some.
19:53 chris davi: not outright, but for the immediate future yes
19:53 thd davi: Which association option?
19:53 thd Anyone who wants to know when it will be.
19:53 davi Was the Association options rejected?
19:53 ricardo thd: Who's "we"?
19:53 thd yes time.
19:53 chris_n thd: the time?
19:52 thd We do have an open question on the next foundation forming meeting
19:52 pianohacker gmcharlt: I've volunteered as a generic bug wrangler; fdemians came up with idea, still trying to get idea of precise meaning
19:52 sekjal thd: okay, I think I'm clear. If my notes on the wiki are inaccurate, let me know afterwards and I'll correct
19:51 nengard thanks gmcharlt
19:51 wizzyrea I missed that part sorry gmcharlt
19:51 gmcharlt of course, anybody who wants to volunteer to wrangle bugs for a particuar module should feel free to do so at any time
19:51 wizzyrea ah, ok
19:51 gmcharlt mostly that I think we should defer it and discuss next meeting when we start talking about 3.4 roles
19:51 thd sekjal: More permissive would be an option of a contributor. Not the other way around.
19:51 davi Association -or- Foundation?, or is going to Foundation already decided?
19:50 nengard was that a point already covered?
19:50 nengard no one answered wizzyrea about bugzilla
19:50 ricardo gmcharlt: Darn, I guess I'll probably also miss that one, then. Oh well...
19:50 davi yes, http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=relicensing
19:50 gmcharlt as a reminder, the next foundation forming meeting is currently scheduled at 19:00 UTC+0 on 3 December 2009
19:49 davi ?
19:49 davi "GPL v2 or later"
19:49 ricardo gmcharlt: Yeah, I had to skip that meeting unfortunately. Will read the transcript, when I get around to it
19:49 sekjal so the rule would be all new content is defaulted to GPLv2, with more permissive licenses available on request
19:49 gmcharlt the other issue is the foundation, but I don't think there's all that much to say about it since it's been only a week since the last foundation-forming meeting
19:49 thd ricardo: FSF has a list for software licenses and compatibility.
19:49 ricardo davi: *nod*
19:48 thd sekjal: It would mostly be for quoting content of others.
19:48 davi sekjal, We should care too about all that licenses being compatibles, or just allow only one. so it would be easier use such material to write a book, manual or similar
19:48 ricardo thd: My only question with that would be what would be a more permissive licensing -public domain, others? (Is my double use of "would be" here correct? I think it is...)
19:47 wizzyrea so where are we with bugzilla default assignees?
19:47 chris_n +1
19:47 thd sekjal: However, I doubt the issue of alternative licenses will arise.
19:47 gmcharlt any objectiosn?
19:47 gmcharlt and I propose 10:00 UTC+0 as the time, since we've had two general meetings in a row at 19:00 UTC+0
19:47 gmcharlt December 2nd is the first Wednesday of December
19:47 thd sekjal: we should certainly allow more permissive licensing of sections on request.
19:47 gmcharlt which I propose to make an agenda item for next meeting
19:47 ricardo gmcharlt: Ah, OK.
19:46 gmcharlt BZ = Bugzilla
19:46 gmcharlt and at this point we may as well roll it into discussino of 3.4 roles
19:46 ricardo gmcharlt: Huh?
19:46 sekjal this could be decided at a later meeting, if appropriate
19:46 gmcharlt regarding other action items, the main one left from last meeting was BZ default assignees
19:46 sekjal I agree that all the content on the wiki should be fully redistributable. Do we want to make that a condition for publishing to the wiki, or just the default (with exceptions available upon request)?
19:46 slef chris_n: or just that it may be replaced with something under more friendly terms if possible.
19:45 nengard home
19:45 nengard oh - well had car trouble and just got hom
19:45 thd sekjal: that would defeat the purpose of the wiki.
19:45 wizzyrea nengard: daylight savings :(
19:44 gmcharlt but I agree that it should be an unusual thing
19:44 chris ill try
19:44 chris_n perhaps "on approval of the community or its reps"?
19:44 thd sekjal: we should discourage incompatible license notices appearing in the wiki
19:44 nengard did the meeting start? I thought it was in 15 min ...
19:44 ricardo chris: stay put, will ya? ;-)
19:44 gmcharlt I think the main case would be republishing content that's under another license that allows distribution
19:44 sekjal ricardo: no, nothing in mind. I just have it noted as an unresolved question
19:44 slef sekjal: I think we should, but it should not be usual.
19:44 ricardo sekjal: I don't think so (just my opinion). Did you have any particular license / case in mind?
19:44 thd We should briefly address sekjal's question.
19:43 chris_n we're multiplying rapidly
19:43 chrisc yeah, network went down, and came back up
19:43 pianohacker looks like it
19:43 gmcharlt clones?
19:43 chris_n and chris
19:43 chris_n wb chrisc
19:43 chrisc well that was annoying
19:43 sekjal are we going to decide to allow other new content to be published in the wiki with other licensing if explicitly requested?
19:43 ricardo chris_n: *nod*
19:42 davi slef, copyright law being extended in a lot of countries is what has allowed the grow of the Free Software community IMHO
19:42 chris_n we probably have a similar issue with the code itself given the various copyright holders of the various pieces
19:42 thd gmcharlt: I think that we could although any old copies in the internet archive would still be GPL 2 or later.
19:42 gmcharlt ok, anyway, I think we have discussed this enough for now - hopefully we get to finalize at least some of this next month
19:41 davi so, no dishonest IMHO
19:41 slef Have I mentioned recently how much I dislike copyright law?
19:41 davi slef, the original is "GPL v2 or later" not just "GPL v2"
19:41 slef dishonest is a bit too strong
19:41 slef davi: legal, but slightly dishonest because the original content is also available under GPL-2.
19:41 gmcharlt doesn't "GPL2 or later" mean that the recipient has the option to redistribute per GPL2? I don't see how that can turn into GPL3 or later w/o a relicensing vote
19:40 davi ack
19:40 thd davi: That would make this task, much easier if we collectively decided that would be helpful.
19:40 pianohacker bah
19:40 ricardo Ah! Here's my homonym. Hi richard! :)
19:40 davi I know
19:40 davi ack
19:40 thd davi: That is an advantage, not a problem.
19:39 * gmcharlt tells pianohacker to get off his lawn
19:39 * wizzyrea calls pianohacker a whippersnapper
19:39 davi thd, It is not a problem as all the wiki could be moved from "GPL v2 or later" to "GPL v3 or later" just changing the notice. It is legal.
19:39 richard hi
19:39 * pianohacker hands gmcharlt his cane
19:39 thd davi: we do not have quoting much code in the wiki in any case.
19:39 * jdavidb is olde.
19:39 gmcharlt chris_n: the bunch is olde, relatively speaking - I'm making no assertions about any of the members of same ;)
19:38 thd davi: However, any special section marked GPL 3 or later could be kept as such.
19:38 thd davi: yes
19:38 * chris_n wonders about the young ones in the bunch ;-)
19:38 davi thd, GPL v2 is incompatible with GPL v3
19:37 ricardo gmcharlt: OK, thanks
19:37 gmcharlt ricardo: ye olde bunch o' people
19:37 ricardo I have a newbie question (sorry): I thought that works under the GPL are / could be copyrighted (although allowing the right for modifications to others, of course). If this is so, who is the copyright holder, in this case?
19:37 davi just change the license and go.
19:36 davi Being "GPL 2 or later" it is very easy publish a copy as "GPLv3 or later"
19:36 slef thd: yes, so we'd still need to track terms.
19:36 ricardo gmcharlt: OK
19:36 thd slef: the only issue would be quoting GPL 3 code in the wiki and that content can always be marked appropriately and is covered by the or later clause.
19:36 gmcharlt so what the yes voters have assented to is "GPL 2 or later"
19:35 davi chris_n++
19:35 gmcharlt "changing the wiki page license to the GPL version 2 or later terms used by the main Koha download"
19:35 davi slef, It would be improvable, but this would be a good time to avoid such risk
19:35 slef chris_n: yes
19:35 chris_n if that is possible
19:35 * chris_n thinks that both Koha and the wiki and the documentation should be sync'd in licensing
19:34 slef it seems unlikely that any fatal GPL-2 bug will harm wiki text IMO
19:34 thd Wikipedia had an easier time because they had an or later clause.
19:34 gmcharlt regarding GPL 2 => GPL 3 or later, yes, we would have to go through this exercise again if we decided to do that, but practically speaking, unless somebody discovers a major flaw with "GPL 2 or later", I don't think it would be necessary
19:34 davi good
19:34 thd chris_n, davi: The or later clause provides flexibility without needing a similar vote.
19:34 davi ack
19:34 slef davi: I think the proposal is for the same terms as Koha. Check the wording.
19:33 gmcharlt I don't know if we've ever decided this, but we could decide to make it stronger and *require* that new content be GPL
19:33 davi Will us relicense to "GPL version 3" or "GPL version 3 or later" to avoid have to run again with this troubles when "GPL version 4 be out"?
19:32 gmcharlt chris_n: yes - an implicit part of this would be added a statement to the wiki (on the account creation page, among other places), that any content aded to the wiki should be GPL unless the contributor *explicitly* licenses it otherwise
19:32 slef chris_n: only as long as we keep track of the licensing status.
19:32 chris_n thd: having to seek out each editor every time there is a copyright question
19:32 ricardo chris_n: *nod*
19:32 * chris_n can imagine many people editing and then disappearing over time
19:32 thd chris_n: Which sort of question?
19:32 chris_n will licensing under GPL clear up the possibility of this sort of question in the future?
19:31 thd s/edited/edited by other than the original author/
19:30 gmcharlt thd: true any content clearly originating from one of the "yes" voters can be marked as GPL after the voting closed
19:30 thd gmcharlt: I know that many pages have never been edited.
19:30 pianohacker +1 on relicensing plan, be nice to get this over with
19:30 thd gmcharlt: We should be able to relicense at least some old content.
19:30 pianohacker owen: we have 38 more steps before we have to worry about panicking
19:29 thd gmcharlt: you may have shortened a step
19:29 gmcharlt slef, thd: +1
19:29 chris_n slef: +1
19:29 chris_n owen: lol
19:29 owen Don't panic!
19:29 slef 4. thd to ask SFLC opinion on joint authorship theory?
19:29 ricardo Oops... There goes Chris
19:28 slef gmcharlt: +1
19:28 gmcharlt I would like to see if we can get this issue closed, at least for new content, by shortly after the December meeting
19:28 chris_n gmcharlt: +1
19:28 thd slef: Which is why we should ask now. SFLC has more experience with this particular issue.
19:28 wizzyrea sorry I had another meeting >.<
19:28 wizzyrea hehe
19:27 ricardo wizzyrea: I think you got some *huge* network lag ;-)
19:27 thd slef: They are both probably slow unless you are being sued.
19:27 slef FTF = Freedom Task Force http://fsfe.org/projects/ftf/
19:27 gmcharlt and mark it for replacement - given need to document 3.2, I think we'll have reason to do that anyway
19:27 ricardo gmcharlt: Sounds good to me...
19:27 wizzyrea Liz Rea, NEKLS
19:27 gmcharlt 3. if necessary, tag any content that's still udner CC-BY-NC
19:27 ricardo thd: SLFC = Software Freedom Law Center - http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ Right?
19:27 slef thd: any idea of the relative response rates of SFLC and FTF?
19:27 gmcharlt 2. after that meeting, plan to update wiki to specify that all new content will fall under the GPL -
19:26 thd slef: We should probably just pose the question to SFLC in any case.
19:26 gmcharlt 1. keep the voting period open until the next general meeting
19:26 gmcharlt here's what I propose we do:
19:26 thd slef: We should seek legal advice if we are asking about safe
19:26 mason hi slef
19:26 slef s/safe even/worth trying/
19:25 slef thd: is it safe even without one significant copyright holder?
19:25 thd legally we could relicense under joint authorship with merely support from significant copyright holders but we should not morally
19:24 slef mason?
19:24 gmcharlt and perhaps make it incumbent on them to clearly identify the portions of the content that should remain under CC-BY-NC
19:24 slef I'm not comfortable with the joint authorship theory, so I would prefer to track things touched by the "yet to vote" list.
19:24 * mason waves...
19:24 gmcharlt yes
19:24 thd I think that if anyone would object we would need to attach a special notice to their content with the CC-BY-NC license.
19:23 ricardo gmcharlt: *nod*
19:23 gmcharlt obviously, one of the biggest holdouts is kados, and frankly that's the main direction I would expect any challenge to come from
19:22 thd gmcharlt: yes we have no objection from any voters
19:22 chris_n perhaps future licensing should have a "contact-ability" clause in it?
19:22 slef presumably someone else at katipo could speak for one of them as their employer - maybe one or two others are similar
19:22 gmcharlt thd: we do have a majority of voters
19:21 slef those on the Yet to vote and email bouncing, I'm not sure what to do with their contributions
19:21 thd gmcharlt: We could under the joint authorship theory of the construction of the wiki.
19:21 slef another escape route is to email all of the "Yet to vote" list with the decision and give them chance to object
19:21 thd gmcharlt: I think that we do not quite have a majority.
19:21 gmcharlt but we cannot, ultimately, just relicense existing content w/o the consent of the copyright holder
19:21 slef chris_n: a majority of authors or of content?
19:20 slef the escape routes are trying to track which pages have "clean" licenses, but I think the recent namespace restructuring may complicate that.
19:20 thd gmcharlt: the election rules called for a majority.
19:20 gmcharlt and putting up appropriate notes on the interface
19:20 gmcharlt chris_n: I think we have a basis for now stating that *new* content on the wiki will be GPL
19:20 slef pianohacker: no. I suspect we'll keep this going until next meeting at least.
19:19 davi slef, I would agree that voting where not closed allowing new ones at any time, or modification of votes already issued
19:19 chris_n don't we really just need a simple majority?
19:19 gmcharlt the main issue at this point would be if one of those who hasn't voted yet decides to come back and want to keep their content non-GPL
19:19 gmcharlt I'm pretty sure that we've established that a plurarilty of the editors are OK with the relicensing
19:19 slef davi: I don't see much point in closing the vote.
19:18 * owen is late too
19:18 pianohacker thd, slef: do you have a set quorum before you consider the issue closed?
19:18 chris ill take them back off, doesnt look like i missed too much
19:18 ricardo If anyone is wondering what's this "wiki relicensing thing", we're talking about this - http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=relicensing
19:18 chris naw, tried to get to work before 8, didnt think id make it, so put my apologies on the wiki already
19:18 thd :)
19:18 chris heh
19:18 slef chris: did you forget to blow on the pie?
19:18 gmcharlt I'm pretty sure that at least three of the accounts are spam accounts, back when the wiki was World of Warcraft gold-trading central
19:17 chris apologies for being late
19:17 slef I also want to analyse what proportion of pages they represent. I suspect having kados||liblime approval would cover lots of them.
19:17 davi Is it boring vote again and again? Should we keep or allow updating current votes, allowing to just add new people votes?
19:17 thd Some people may never respond or really be found.
19:17 thd The vote is quite close to half of the electorate.
19:16 thd I will also contact some again.
19:16 thd Some have now voted, a couple of others who I can identify I still need to contact.
19:16 thd I have contacted some people who had not voted.
19:15 slef thd: go ahead
19:15 slef thd and myself need to sweep through the yet to votes
19:15 thd I have an update if slef does not.
19:15 slef not much
19:14 gmcharlt the wiki relicensing ballot is still open as far as I can tell - slef, do you have an update on that?
19:14 gmcharlt items from last meeting
19:14 gmcharlt so jumping onwards
19:13 gmcharlt indeed, hdl++
19:12 ricardo hdl++
19:12 gmcharlt regarding 3.0.x, I didn't see hdl_laptop introduce himself, so in case he's not here, he has released 3.0.4
19:11 ricardo gmcharlt: I agree with davi. But I guess that's not a big issue: weren't deadlines created to be skipped? ;-)
19:11 thd I will try to have some neglected MARC 21 framework updates in that period including a German translation from kf
19:10 davi ack
19:10 thd davi: RC1 is still not a release
19:10 pianohacker davi: 4 weeks from alpha to release candidate is what I think gmcharlt had in mind
19:10 gmcharlt alpha to release *candidate* - I'm not expecting that the translations would be done that quickly
19:09 davi 4 weeks from alpha to release is too short?
19:09 gmcharlt after which the release will be in bugfix mode running up to the RC1 which I hope to get out 3-4 weeks after the alpha
19:09 chris_n heh
19:08 gmcharlt (hey, it's going to be 48-hour long November 4th :/ )
19:08 gmcharlt that was the main (non-bug) blocker, so I'll pull that in and put out the alpha in the next day or two
19:08 gmcharlt so regarding 3.2, I've now gotten confirmation from paul_p and hdl_laptop that they've fixed the DB update issues in their new_acq branch
19:08 Melanie Melanie Hedgespeth, Salina, KS Salina Public Library
19:07 thd Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
19:07 slef (6pm-8pm most nights at the moment :-/ )
19:07 dbirmingham David Birmingham, PTFS
19:06 SelfishMan Blaine Fleming, Livingston-Park County Public Library (mostly)
19:06 slef I pass to sekjal due to network instability.
19:06 gmcharlt sekjal: thanks, please go ahead
19:06 sekjal gmcharlt: I can take notes, if slef passes
19:06 pianohacker Jesse Weaver, John C. Fremont Library District
19:05 Nate nate curulla bywater solutions
19:05 gmcharlt before we can started, can I impose on slef or somebody else to be notetaker?
19:05 gmcharlt Agree times of next meetings.
19:05 gmcharlt 4.
19:05 gmcharlt Follow-up on actions from General IRC Meeting 7 October 2009.
19:05 gmcharlt 3.
19:05 gmcharlt Update on Koha 3.0 Roadmap.
19:05 gmcharlt 2.
19:05 gmcharlt Update on Roadmap to 3.2.
19:05 gmcharlt 1.
19:04 gmcharlt and the agenda is
19:04 gmcharlt http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:events:meetings:irc_meetings:meetingnotes09nov04
19:04 gmcharlt the page for this meeting is
19:04 gmcharlt ok, cool
19:03 ricardo Ricardo Dias Marques, Portugal
19:03 collum Garry Collum, Kenton County Public Library, Kentucky
19:03 sekjal Ian Walls, NYU Health Sciences Libraries
19:03 rafael Rafael Antonio, Portugal
19:03 jdavidb J. David Bavousett, PTFS
19:03 brendan Brendan Gallagher, ByWater Solutions
19:02 slef MJ Ray, member of software.coop
19:02 Colin Colin Campbell, PTFS Europe
19:02 davi Davi Diaz, worker for software.coop
19:02 magnusenger Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway
19:02 cait Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
19:02 chris_n Chris Nighswonger, FBC
19:02 Ropuch Piotr Wejman, Biblioteka CSNE, Poland
19:02 * gmcharlt - Galen Charlton, Equinox, RM
19:02 gmcharlt let's start with roll cal
19:01 gmcharlt one sec
19:01 gmcharlt welcome to the November 4 meeting of the Koha project
19:00 chris_n lol
19:00 gmcharlt and good night
19:00 gmcharlt good morning
19:00 gmcharlt good evening
19:00 gmcharlt good afternoon
18:59 wizzyrea afk, hopefully back soon
18:59 pianohacker hi everyone
18:58 cait :)
18:58 davi hi
18:58 chris_n hi cait
18:57 jdavidb Hi cait! :)
18:57 slef hi cait
18:57 cait hi #koha
18:50 sekjal ftherese++
18:49 Ropuch I will sure look into it, my boss likes the google books ;>
18:48 ftherese cute is the right word... just a sample of how Google Books can be integrated into any site @wizzyrea
18:48 wizzyrea cute in a good way
18:48 sekjal hi, ricardo
18:48 ricardo Hi everyone! :)
18:47 wizzyrea oh that's cute ftherese
18:44 sekjal pianohacker: oh, right. I failed to factor in DST when I made the appointment in my calendar
18:44 sekjal ftherese: nice!
18:43 wizzyrea bah, I have to go to another meeting in 18mins
18:43 ftherese if you click on one of the books it returns, you get an inline viewer right on the page
18:43 pianohacker just to confirm, irc meeting in 18 min, right?
18:42 ftherese http://sites.google.com/site/bibliothequeproject/
18:42 ftherese here is one that I threw together real quick, I am not good at html... but this one only returns results that have some sort of preview:
18:41 sekjal brendan: impressive. sounds like its pretty much there, except for some minor cleanup
18:38 brendan even if the ISBN can't be found in google -- so it's not correct yet
18:38 brendan and I haven't worked on it in little bit -- so it displays on every result
18:37 brendan but it doesn't match that often
18:37 brendan is one version that I hacked together quickly
18:37 brendan http://catalog.my.pacifica.edu/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=4331
18:36 sekjal easy is good
18:36 ftherese it would be really easy to set up... just a few lines of javascript and some ajax calls
18:35 sekjal sounds like it would be a great additional feature to be able to offer in Koha. perhaps set it up so it can display in a different tab in the details page... (next to Holdings, Title Notes or Subscriptions)
18:33 ftherese sorry koha
18:33 ftherese the best part is you could keep the user on kola and integrate a viewer/fulltext search
18:33 sekjal ftherese: I've looked at it some, but not in depth. I do so little with actual content these days...
18:33 ftherese have you checked out Google books yet?
18:32 sekjal it replaces the old hardcoded links to WorldCat, Google Scholar and Bookfinder.com
18:31 sekjal ftherese: most excellent! there is a new system preference in 3.1 for searching other sources. It can parse in the title, author or ISBN
18:30 ftherese I already did some java scripting and ajax stuff with Google Books, so I know the api pretty well
18:29 ftherese that way... you can do an ajax to google on your book's isbn and get an inline fulltext serchable if it is available
18:29 sekjal but at least the mechanics are in place
18:29 sekjal ftherese: longer answer: I have no idea how to actually make it work. I imagine some trial and error
18:28 slef sekjal's way is probably simpler if you can
18:28 ftherese ahhhh great!
18:28 slef ftherese: there's javascript in the koha-tmpl folder
18:28 sekjal ftherese: short answer, yes. you can overlay arbitrary Javascript on your OPAC from the system preferences
18:28 Ropuch Evenening #koha
18:27 slef ftherese: everything is possible, but some things are difficult or expensive.
18:27 munin brendan: The current temperature in Northwest Goleta, Goleta, California is 15.1�C (10:22 AM PST on November 04, 2009). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 12.0�C. Pressure: 30.02 in 1016.5 hPa (Steady).
18:27 brendan @wunder 93117
18:27 ftherese everything seems to be in perl
18:27 ftherese I'd like to add a google books interface on koha using javascript... is that possible?
18:26 munin Colin: Error: "useproprietrysoftware" is not a valid command.
18:26 Colin munin: useproprietrysoftware
18:22 munin pianohacker: Error: "command" is not a valid command.
18:22 pianohacker munin: command
18:22 sekjal I find that hard to believe
18:22 munin sekjal: Error: "aardvark" is not a valid command.
18:22 sekjal munin: aardvark
18:21 jdavidb hehe.
18:21 munin jdavidb: Error: "what?" is not a valid command.
18:21 jdavidb munin: what?
18:20 munin pianohacker: Error: "question" is not a valid command.
18:20 pianohacker munin: (pianohacker [question]) -- attempt to answer question, verbosely, or provide existential angst if no question is given.
18:11 sekjal aww, thanks, wizzyrea. I aspire
18:11 wizzyrea probably a helpful one ;)
18:10 * sekjal wonders what kind of command he'd be, if he were valid
18:08 sekjal ftherese: good luck!
18:07 ftherese :sekjal thank you
18:07 munin ftherese: Error: "sekjal" is not a valid command.
18:07 ftherese @sekjal thank you!
18:07 ftherese perfect... that's what I needed to know
18:05 sekjal ftherese: I've had difficulty mapping my own unique identifier into the Koha biblionumber field. You'd probably need to pick a field of your own (for example, 942$9 would probably work)
18:04 hugo I will, for sure. Thanks - and I'll run the install now
18:04 hugo Oh - I see, maybe this is what you were asking - it says the failed tests in t/Label were 62 64 66 and 68
18:04 ftherese sekjal: I mean, there is a unique identifier for each biblio, but I dont' know where to map it in MARC
18:04 chris_n yup, but please consider filing a bug
18:03 hugo should I just keep going and go on to make install?
18:03 ftherese sekjal: no, but I can
18:03 hugo the last line of the make test reads, "make: *** [test_dynamic] Error 255
18:02 chris_n and so needs to be fixed
18:02 chris_n which means it will break for others of the same type (exact same)
18:02 sekjal ftherese: you just have to be sure to have a solid matching rule. do you have unique identifiers for each biblio that get mapped to MARC fields?
18:01 chris_n it most likely means that the lccn splitting algorithm breaks on that particular call number
18:01 ftherese perfect sekjal!
18:01 hugo oh - OK - I assumed it was all me and not a bug at all.
18:00 chris_n hugo: it's not a show stopper for you installation, but it would be helpful to file a bug along with a cut and paste of the output from the test at bugs.koha.org
18:00 ftherese I was going the opposite way
18:00 ftherese start with the concrete and work your way to the abstract
18:00 hugo looking at the output from the make test, the errors start where it says...
18:00 sekjal ftherese: then, on Staging for Import, you'd select your matching rule, and the options to skip adding the biblio if you match, but to still add the item
18:00 ftherese I was just conceptualizing it wrong
17:59 ftherese thank you sekjal
17:59 ftherese lights go on in the room...
17:59 ftherese oh man...
17:59 sekjal ftherese: one option would be to have a line in the spreadsheet for each item, rather than just each biblio.
17:59 hugo I'm a newbie with this stuff - how would I see which call failed?
17:58 sekjal ftherese: I think I see your problem. You have a variable number of items per biblio record, so mapping them from Excel columns isn't really going to work
17:58 slef 3.00.04_final?
17:57 chris_n hugo: which call number failed?
17:57 hugo sorry - 3.00.04
17:56 hugo chris_n:3.00.03
17:56 ftherese but I can't create a table on an excel sheet... or at least I don't know how...
17:56 chris_n hugo: what version of koha?
17:55 ftherese and I managed to map my previous database through an excel sheet to the marc
17:54 ftherese I am using MarcEdit
17:54 ftherese but I don't know how
17:54 ftherese that's what I need to do
17:54 chris_n hi pianohacker
17:54 sekjal you can embed the item data in the MARC records that you import. It's the 952 field in MARC21 (and I think in UNIMARC as well, but I'm not sure)
17:54 ftherese an ID number if you will
17:53 ftherese My old library database used a number to link the two
17:53 ftherese My problem is conceptual... I don't see how to relate my items with the Catalog
17:52 ftherese stage marc records
17:52 hugo Failed test '5 of 3 pieces produced' at t/Labels_split_ddcn.t line 30 etc.
17:52 sekjal did you use the Stage MARC Records for Import tool in the Tools area, or bulkmarcimport.pl?
17:51 pianohacker good morning
17:51 ftherese Unimarc
17:51 ftherese I know there is a 995$9
17:51 ftherese thati s correct sekjal
17:51 ftherese yes
17:50 hugo many fewer errors, but still some -
17:49 sekjal ftherese: so you've loaded in all the bibliographic records, and now need the item records to be attached? Am I understanding correctly?
17:49 hugo no fire on my return...
17:48 ftherese but now I need to know how to get my barcode information in there
17:48 slef chris_n: code always litters my desktop
17:48 ftherese I got the whole catalog uploaded into koha
17:48 chris_n I actually finished up the core code for card generation (C and M)last week and am now working it into the interface (V)
17:47 ftherese ok... I am stuck again
17:46 chris_n code litters the desktop
17:46 slef rather you than me
17:45 * chris_n is ripping out and rewriting the rewrite of labels to implement patroncards atm
17:45 slef hihi
17:44 chris_n howdy slef
17:42 * slef flits through, tidying up RFID some more
17:42 slef so will hugo's computer have caught fire on return?
17:41 hugo and walking down the drive to get the mail. thanks for the suggestons, I'll see what I've got when I return
17:41 hugo ok, since I'm living on the edge here, I used sudo, your suggestion worked, I'm running make test again
17:40 hugo and should I do this with sudo? Or the regular use is OK?
17:40 wizzyrea colin++ that's what I was looking for to suggest
17:37 Colin try libyaml-perl as the package name
17:35 hugo but failed
17:34 hugo I thought there was an apt package - I tried: apt-get install YAML
17:33 Colin hugo: use cpan (although there should be an apt package on debian for it)
17:31 hugo make sense?
17:30 hugo well, I guess it's a test - mainly because I've been given this newer (newish) dell box to run it on, and all I had was a PATA drive, while the machine really takes SATA drives. So I've rigged it to work with the PATA drive just so I can see that I can make it work. Once that's done, I'll go find a SATA drive and do it again.
17:29 wizzyrea is this a test or are you planning on using this particular install for production?
17:29 hugo And I'm sure I'm much closer that before to getting this working for our little library.
17:28 hugo well, I've been trying this all summer (on the OS X machine) so a little delay now is not awful.
17:28 hugo lol
17:28 wizzyrea oh hugo, you turned on the lights and all they all scattered :)
17:26 hugo any help very much appreciated :)
17:26 hugo so not sure if that would be wise (using CPAN)
17:25 hugo I would use CPAN to install YAML, but the install doc says "only use CPAN for Perl dependencies which are NOT, etc. etc."
17:25 hugo followed by can't locate YAML.pl in @INC
17:24 hugo the first error says "Failed test 'use C4::Circulation;'
17:23 hugo There were more "yaml' not installed errors... but I've rebooted, and am running make test again to see what I get - ah, just failed again....
17:22 hugo but got lots of errors when I ran 'make test'
17:22 hugo I got a few messages about YAML not being installed... that was the first thing that didn't seem quite right. But I kept on going...
17:21 hugo I'm following the INSTALL.debian-lenny instructions and reading instructions at http://blog.triumphovermadness.com/2009/05/koha-3-on-debianlenny.html too
17:20 hugo and am stuck with a few questions.
17:20 hugo I'm doing my first install of Koha on Debian (after many failed attempts on OS X)
17:20 sekjal hi, hugo
17:19 hugo Hello...
17:19 sekjal things we'd want to facet on
17:19 jdavidb lol owen
17:19 sekjal I'd say branch, item type, collection code, call number, and enumeration/vol/copy info is good to keep in the 952
17:19 owen jdavidb: And one of those places is the back of my car, and you know it's a mess back there.
17:18 jdavidb Keyword: *single*. Storing things multiple places is asking for gobs of trouble. (read: Item type, which is in *four* places.)
17:18 sekjal also, I think there has been talk of pulling the circ-related info out of MARC to speed up circulation
17:18 wizzyrea branch etc probably should be left in the 952
17:17 wizzyrea well, koha really does need a single place for STATUS
17:17 sekjal owen: we'd definitely need some 952 item data in the MARC records that are fed to Zebra, but maybe by reducing it to just the key elements, we can minimize the impact of the bug.
17:16 owen sekjal: If items can't be indexed by Zebra, how do you search by branch, availability, etc.?
17:16 wizzyrea NEKLS might have some money to put towards that
17:16 sekjal I've got some ideas for how to make Koha more consortia/electronic resources friendly, but they involve lots of gut-level changes
17:16 wizzyrea :/ yea, maybe
17:16 sekjal perhaps this and other major revisions to the Koha infrastructure are best saved for Koha 4.0
17:15 wizzyrea hm, interesting
17:13 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2453 critical, P3, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, (very) large biblio/item handling
17:13 sekjal I cite bug 2453 again
17:13 sekjal having them in the MARC means they can get indexed by Zebra, but is that really a benefit worth the time/cost of large MARC records
17:13 Colin the database can handle much of this data better than in a marc subfield
17:13 sekjal there are 5 acquisitions-related subfields in 952, as well as 5 circulation-related ones
17:12 sekjal this ties into a conversation yesterday about moving certain kinds of info out of the 952, and keeping it just in the database
17:10 jdavidb We've got a recent (still in testing) enhancement that does some additional status work; I don't think it does anything much in 952 fields, though.
17:10 sekjal no only would the logic attached to each of those 6 statuses need to be routed through the new configurable table, but we'd have to build the update script to convert libraries running the current setup to this new setup
17:09 sekjal wizzyrea: it would probably be a pretty big deal to change
17:09 wizzyrea ew
17:09 sekjal there are current 6 separate subfields in 952 for status information
17:09 wizzyrea how difficult of a job, do you think, that would be
17:08 wizzyrea sekjal, I like that idea
17:07 sekjal it'd be easy enough to ship Koha with some pre-created statuses, then let the library add/modify/delete as they like
17:06 sekjal we could then create what statuses we want, on a per library basis, and apply logic to them to give them meaning (i.e. LOST items cannot be checked out and do not show up in search, ORDERED items can have holds placed on them, etc.)
17:05 sekjal it seems to me it would make sense to just have a single "status" field which points to a user-configurable table
17:05 Jpr owen: thank you very, very much
17:04 sekjal s/'tatus'/'status'/
17:04 sekjal wizzyrea: I was not aware of this, but it makes sense. the 'tatus' of an item is kept in many different fields
17:04 owen ...to: <form name="f" action="/cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl" method="get">
17:04 owen Jpr: You'd change line 12 from "<form name="f" action="/cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl" method="post">"
17:03 owen Yes, I believe so. You'd be modifying opac-authorities-home.tmpl. That's the template, not the script.
17:03 Jpr owen: in short, what you're saying is that I could more or less apply that patch to my own cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl in order to then be able to interact with opac-authorities-home in the aforementioned manner? (out of breath)
17:02 wizzyrea is that true, is koha really not z-standard compliant?
17:01 wizzyrea I just got a question based on this statement: Since Koha treats circ status information in a non-Z standard way (they put it in a separate field apart from the call number, rather than in a subfield in the same field), the only time we can route requests around Koha libraries is when the item is checked out and has a due date. Any other statuses, such as Lost, Missing, On Order, etc. don't get transferred.
17:01 Jpr ack, I don't think we've got it, as we haven't updated since installation at the beginning of January
17:01 wizzyrea hmm, this is interesting
17:01 owen If you're self-hosted and have access to the Koha files you could modify the template
17:00 owen Jpr: I would think that would mean you'd have the fix. Maybe I've got my version numbers mixed up.
17:00 Jpr owen: that is to say...?
16:59 |Lupin| till soon all, bye
16:59 |Lupin| np, sorry I couldn'thelp more ftherese
16:59 ftherese that's ok... thanks Lupin
16:59 owen Jpr: It looks like the authorities search form changed from "method=POST" to "method=GET" on 2009-04-18
16:59 |Lupin| ftherese: I have to go now, can't help more, sorry
16:58 |Lupin| ftherese: I'm not sure but I'd say you really have to script and to add the info progressively to the marc records tat have been previously imported
16:55 Jpr I also have to admit that we haven't updated from 3.0.1, and this could be something that's been corrected in one of the more recent releases
16:54 Jpr no, it's in-house only
16:54 owen Jpr: Do you have a publicly-accessible OPAC to demonstrate?
16:54 Jpr it remains simply 'cgi-bin/koha/opac-authorities-home.pl'
16:54 * owen rarely works with authorities
16:54 Jpr exactly
16:54 owen Jpr: does the result of your normal authorities search not result in a URL like that?
16:53 ftherese would it cause the items to correspond to the information contained in the catalogue?
16:52 ftherese then import that seperately
16:52 Jpr where you follow opac-search.pl with a question mark and then various search terms (like you can see in the address bar after doing a normal or advanced search)
16:52 ftherese now if I map my old BibID number to, say 955$z, could I then make a separate marc file with all my barcode numbers and also put a reference to 955$z with the old BibID?
16:51 Jpr hey, I'm curious if anyone knows whether it is possible to do a search through 'opac-authorities-home.pl' in the address bar of a browser, the way it is for opac-search.pl
16:50 kf bye #koha
16:48 |Lupin| ftherese: perhaps use something in the 9xx block ?
16:48 |Lupin| ftherese: that I don' know, I'm really not a MARC specialist
16:46 ftherese numbers.
16:46 ftherese so what could I use as a 8xx$x for my old identity record number?
16:46 ftherese ok... that's fine
16:44 |Lupin| ftherese: and then once it's done you could write a script that goes over your aold db and Koha's db and adds your numbers as barcodes ?
16:43 |Lupin| ftherese: ell so you could first import your MARC records and during the record you would keep track of the mapping between your old numbers (those who identify records) and those assigned by Koha
16:42 ftherese basically yes
16:42 |Lupin| ftherese: is this number a kind of barcode ?
16:42 ftherese I need to connect the items to the main database
16:42 |Lupin| ftherese: aaaaah...
16:42 ftherese but that item number is not directly present in the main database
16:41 ftherese which already have an item number on them
16:41 |Lupin| ftherese: so what exactly is it that you want to migrate ?
16:41 ftherese my concern is... I don't want to have to relabel all my books
16:41 |Lupin| ok
16:41 ftherese no loan history
16:41 ftherese no
16:41 |Lupin| ftherese: your concern is that you want to migrate the loan historiy from your old system in Koha, right ?
16:40 ftherese ok
16:40 |Lupin| ftherese: I think you have to proceed in several steps
16:39 ftherese that is also found in the abstract information database
16:39 ftherese whose only connection to their information is a number
16:39 ftherese ok... that is helpful... now how do I take a database full of item numbers
16:38 |Lupin| ftherese: and I think to refer to a copy of a book, for loans and so on, it's the itemnumber which is used.
16:37 |Lupin| ftherese: yes, yes
16:37 |Lupin| ftherese: item number : yo have one by physical book. So if for instance for one given book you have sevral copies of it, each copy will have its own itemnumber which is stored in 995$9 in Unimarc
16:36 ftherese in MY old database
16:36 ftherese BibID is the reference to an abstract piece of information
16:35 ftherese item number refers to information or to concrete objects?
16:35 ftherese I am not sure... I am brand new to the process
16:35 |Lupin| ftherese: are you talking about itemnumber field in Koha ?
16:34 ftherese this actually does help... but I am trying to leave this system behind as well, so it is important only for the sake of transition
16:33 ftherese since we have multiple copies of the same book
16:33 ftherese and if I look up the BibID on my information database I know the title, author, cotation, etc.
16:32 ftherese I know that the book registered with 65537 has BibID=1000293845
16:32 ftherese for example
16:31 ftherese and it is how I can link the two
16:31 ftherese that has no importance or significance other than it is what the items and their information card have in common
16:30 ftherese an index number
16:30 ftherese it is a key
16:30 |Lupin| ftherese: which number do you try to store in a unimarc field ?
16:29 ftherese I just need to know what field I can put that number in
16:29 |Lupin| and I'm wondering whether this line doesn't distroy the prevous content of the variable...
16:29 slef I'd have to look it up and I'm busy, sorry :-/
16:29 ftherese I already have an ID number that corresponds between the item information and the items themselves
16:29 slef |Lupin|: you can login and then give the CGISESSID cookie extracted from your browser on the command-line but I forget exactly how.
16:29 |Lupin| there is a variable which is re-declared
16:28 |Lupin| at lien 119 of virtualshelves/addbybiblionumber.pl
16:28 |Lupin| slef: but I may have found something weird...
16:28 |Lupin| slef: it's what I meant, yes
16:27 ftherese I want my match point to be a number that I can put into the marc
16:27 schuster Is the information card # on the MARC someplace?
16:26 slef |Lupin|: debug info is in the koha-error_log if the ErrorLog and koha debug preferences are right, but you can't easily run it through the perl debugger, if that's what you mean.
16:26 schuster doesn't matter on items. You would need a match point to load the items into the database from your MARC records already in Koha.
16:25 ftherese sorry
16:25 ftherese I am using unimarc
16:25 schuster ftherese - embedded information on the marc is in the 952 tag
16:24 |Lupin| slef: I don't know how to debug a script that has been ran by apache... is that possible ? If it is I'm gonna be very interested !
16:23 |Lupin| jwagner: however, she is the owner of the shelves, she has _all_ the permissions set, including super librarian
16:22 |Lupin| jwagner: the problem is that when our librarian tries to add something to a virtual shelf, the existing ones are not proposed
16:22 slef |Lupin|: I think you get into managing the CGISESSID cookie. Probably easier to script running it through the webserver.
16:21 jwagner |Lupin|, which script & for what reason?
16:15 |Lupin| Anyone knows how to pass login and password to a Koha scipt while running it from the command-line, please ?
16:13 ftherese thd: are you around?
15:57 ftherese could I just import a second marc file for the items?
15:55 wizzyrea no clue, sorry
15:55 * wizzyrea is like a fish gasping for water while trapped on the beach
15:54 ftherese then how would I connect the barcode numbers to their respective info card #?
15:54 ftherese ok... so if I used MarcEdit, and assigned some tag 8xx$a to all the "info card #"
15:52 wizzyrea :(
15:51 wizzyrea if I'm understanding correctly, you could use marcedit to map the bib to the item, but that would be a feat of data compilation that I probably wouldn't have much luck helping you with
15:51 ftherese I have nearly imported all the information cards
15:51 ftherese which is their "info card #"
15:50 ftherese to their information card
15:50 ftherese so I need to connect the items (based on their barcode number)
15:50 wizzyrea yea
15:50 wizzyrea wow
15:50 ftherese and it has another number that refers to its information card (in another database)
15:49 ftherese and the barcode number itself refers to an individual book
15:49 ftherese barcode number
15:49 ftherese right
15:49 wizzyrea like, barcodes?
15:48 ftherese so if I have a database full of book ID numbers
15:48 wizzyrea doesn't say a lot, but my guess is that it looks for 952 fields
15:47 wizzyrea http://koha.org/documentation/manual/3.0/tools/stage-marc-records-for-import
15:46 wizzyrea the manual might have something about it, nengard isn't here, let me go see if i can find the section in the manual
15:42 ftherese like on how it works
15:42 ftherese I am importing records for the first time into koha from a marc file... one of the options was "check for embedded item record data?" how do I get more information on this?
15:41 wizzyrea not in lynx, but saw the dropdown
15:40 wizzyrea er
15:40 wizzyrea I was too :/
15:39 owen |Lupin|: I was able to successfully add items to a list in lynx
15:36 rhcl OK, looks like Southiana may be India - Mainpur
15:34 wizzyrea odd, it appears to be possible on my install, to add an item to an existing list
15:33 |Lupin| wizzyrea: I think she has...
15:32 wizzyrea it may not work if say, she doesn't have permissions to do lists?
15:32 wizzyrea I can send a screenshot for your librarian if you like
15:31 wizzyrea when you get in that pop-up window
15:30 wizzyrea |Lupin| there is a dropdown at the top that says "select existing list"
15:30 |Lupin| wizzyrea: np ! I'm too happy that you accept to look to raise any complaint !
15:29 Melanie Hi Owen.
15:29 owen rhcl: I wondered the same thing
15:29 wizzyrea I'm going to look right now
15:29 wizzyrea hi melanie
15:29 wizzyrea sorry |lupin| I am always getting off track
15:29 rhcl where is Southiana? Even Google can't google it.
15:25 |Lupin| hello Melanie
15:24 owen Hi Melanie
15:24 |Lupin| wizzyrea: thanks !
15:23 wizzyrea |Lupin| hmm... let me go look
15:23 munin 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1499 normal, P3, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, RESOLVED FIXED, add bilbio fails during dupe check if ISBN (020$a) has parentheses
15:23 chris_n bug 1499
15:22 |Lupin| I tried with lynx and couln't figure out what to do to add to an existing list... can someone please help ?
15:22 |Lupin| it proposes her to create a new list and there seems to be no option to add to an existing list
15:21 |Lupin| my librarian tells me that when she's on a record and uses the add to list button
15:21 |Lupin| pls I need some help to add a title to a list
15:21 gmcharlt that only does part of it
15:20 chris_n wow... fixed over two years ago
15:20 chris_n jwagner: http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=commit;h=afe642bc5233bb316537558351bc26e49bff7a9c
15:19 jwagner Not a problem -- whenever you get a chance. Thanks much!
15:19 gmcharlt I'll have to look it up - doing other stuff atm
15:18 jwagner gmcharlt, thanks -- is there an ID number/date for the patch file?
15:18 gmcharlt the basic approach is to normalize the ISBN into both the ISBN-10 and ISBN-13 forms, then store them in a subfield in the 942 for indexing
15:18 gmcharlt jwagner: the patches are out there and will be in 3.2
15:17 chris_n anyhow, gmcharlt would know
15:17 chris_n it calls SimpleSearch which i seem to recall might be a bit hackish
15:16 chris_n it may be in that query that the filter could be adjusted (but I'm not sure at all as this is code I'm not familiar with)
15:15 chris_n it appears to build the query that determines matches
15:15 chris_n perhaps in the first foreach loop
15:13 chris_n line 654
15:13 chris_n then get_matches in Matcher.pm
15:12 jwagner chris_n, that looks like the right place.
15:11 chris_n jwanger: BatchFindBibDuplicates may be your function
15:09 jwagner OK, thanks. gmcharlt, you online?
15:08 schuster Sorry you need to check with gmcharlt
15:08 jwagner schuster, do you know if that feature is backported for 3.01, or only in 3.2?
15:07 chris_n jwanger: right
15:06 jwagner chris_n, a regex such as stripping out everything that's not numeric?
15:05 schuster We have not had issues since we did this development.
15:05 chris_n a regex in the proper place would work
15:05 schuster I don't know if the ISBN matching rules were part of the "patch" release or the 3.2 release.
15:05 jwagner That sounds like what I need.
15:05 schuster He had some type of algorithm that stripped "extra" characters when matching but left the characters on the MARC existing and incoming.
15:05 jwagner schuster, different systems at different levels of 3.01.00.0xx
15:04 schuster plano ISD sponsored some work on ISBN matching/loading that gmcharlt put together...
15:04 schuster jwagner - are you running 3.2?
15:00 jwagner I've poked at this at intervals for months, & never found a good solution. But there has to be a way to do it properly (she said optimistically).
14:59 chris_n ahh
14:59 jwagner Yes -- frequent cases where a MARC import doesn't match an existing record, and the ISBNs aren't absolutely identical (i.e., extra characters in the ISBN).
14:58 chris_n jwagner: is this an import operation?
14:58 jwagner There are a couple of lines back in tools/manage-marc-import.pl that might be the point -- $new_matcher_id eq $current_matcher_id
14:57 chris_n tnx hdl
14:57 chris_n at that point it appears that the matching is done
14:57 hdl chris_n it has : you can use rtrn and ltrn for that.
14:55 jwagner I'm looking at the GetImportRecordMatches function, I think.
14:55 * chris_n takes a quick look
14:55 jwagner I'm looking at the ImportBatch.pm file, which is where the matching seems to take place, with that possibility in mind, but so far I haven't deciphered the code enough to see if that's possible.
14:54 chris_n jwagner: perhaps the zebra syntax has something similar to sql 'like' rather than '='?
14:48 jwagner I tried some tweaking of the 020 index, but haven't been successful yet.
14:48 jwagner Question about indexing and matching rules -- I keep coming back to this every so often, but haven't found a good solution yet. If the ISBN or whatever field isn't exactly identical, a MARC import doesn't find the match. For example, ISBNs of 9780515147001 (pbk.) and 9780515147001 ; (note pbk and extra semicolon respectively). Isn't there any way to structure the indexes or the rules to make these match?
14:48 chris_n ok, back to patroncard stuff
14:48 Nate hi everyone
14:47 brendan wb Nater
14:47 chris_n hi Nate
14:47 brendan :)
14:47 munin chris_n: Karma for "espresso" has been increased 2 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 2.
14:47 chris_n @karma espresso
14:47 chris_n opps
14:47 chris_n wow
14:47 munin chris_n: expresso has neutral karma.
14:47 chris_n @karma expresso
14:47 brendan espresso++
14:46 chris_n espresso++
14:46 chris_n hehe
14:46 * brendan is flying while typing
14:46 brendan I made two espresso shots
14:46 * chris_n wonders if brendan found the coffee pot
14:37 hdl_laptop amadan: see private message
14:32 amadan or alternatively you can redo the training with me;-)
14:29 amadan O:-)
14:26 amadan with Mali
14:22 amadan hdl, how about the link
14:20 amadan ur welcome anytime
14:20 chris_n I hope to visit sometime
14:19 amadan i c
14:19 * chris_n has a friend about an hour or so out of Accra
14:18 amadan been here b4
14:18 amadan am in Accra
14:18 chris_n amadan: are you near Accra?
14:17 amadan gr8 stuff man
14:17 amadan gr8 stuff will be grateful so much
14:16 hdl_laptop (I trained him in English, so he should be able to give some hints ;) )
14:16 hdl_laptop I could put you in contact with them...
14:16 hdl_laptop No. But I know the person who did it.
14:13 amadan any links
14:13 amadan really?
14:13 hdl_laptop amadan: some ppl installed Koha in Mali
14:13 amadan its installed but i have some hitches
14:12 amadan well, i live in Ghana trying to install koha for my uni
14:11 kf amadan: and the list is not complete
14:09 amadan kool thks man
14:08 chris_n check out http://koha.org/support/pay-for-support (fwiw, I would not base any aspect of my decision on the order of the list)
14:05 amadan anyone in mind? I'll really prefer if it was online
14:03 chris_n amadan: there are quite a few companies which provide services such as training, etc. for Koha
14:02 amadan Does anyone know where i can get training on koha administratio and installation?
13:56 amadan sorry i'm a newbie
13:55 amadan Do i have to do another setup for the staff client or it install automatically after the initial install
13:54 Nate good morning #koha!
13:53 Colin The staff client is set up on a separte virtual host. By deault port 8080
13:53 amadan How does a user access it then?
13:52 Colin There is no separate staff client. Koha is a web based application and you use a browser to access it
13:51 * owen__ appears to be multiplying
13:50 amadan where can i download koha staff client
13:41 * chris_n hands brendan some fresh grind
13:40 * brendan off to go make some coffee
13:40 * chris_n lets his dog run interference on outside noises
13:40 brendan ah... good reminder
13:40 chris_n great after I got the first cup of coffee down :-)
13:39 brendan how you doing chris_n
13:39 chris_n ouch
13:39 brendan can't fall back to sleep -- so I'm starting the day :)
13:39 brendan just got woken up by some weird noises outside
13:39 brendan morning
13:39 chris_n hi owen
13:39 chris_n your up early brendan
13:17 chris_n g'morning #koha
13:00 |Lupin| hi jdavidb
12:56 jdavidb hello, #koha
12:39 audun nevermind, thd. Found it :)
12:38 jwagner Good morning |Lupin|
12:38 |Lupin| hi Jane
12:38 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: re:news: thanks
12:30 audun thd: or is there some clever way to avoid having to do that?
12:21 audun well, as that data does not exist yet, I suppose I have to add it to the source db before using marcedit
12:16 thd audun: Be certain to populate 952 $a and $b with a code for the library or branch.
12:15 thd audun: Match your data to the values for 952 described in http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=blob;f=installer/data/mysql/en/marcflavour/marc21/mandatory/marc21_framework_DEFAULT.sql
12:14 audun hmm..thanks. I'll give it a try
12:13 thd audun: So if MARC 21 then create items with repeated 952 fields in the bibliographic records for each item in the bibliographic record.
12:12 audun marc21
12:12 thd audun: Are you using NORMARC or BSMARC?
12:11 thd audun: Are you using MARC 21?
12:11 thd audun: whether you can reimport without purging your records in Koha or not, you would still not to create items fields within the bibliographic record for each item.
12:08 thd kf: http://www.loc.gov/cds/PDFdownloads/marc/index.html
12:03 kf hm lunch time now - colleagues are waiting. will be back in about half an hour.
11:58 thd kf: Library of Congress is the official maintenance agency for MARC 21.
11:58 audun Used staged import
11:58 kf audun: did you use bulkimport or staged import? you can reimport your data with staged import, if you have a good matchkey, just adding the items and leave the records as they are
11:58 thd kf: my source for MAB2 unification was merely the Library of Congress update to MARC 21.
11:56 kf audun: I think you can use marcedit, when you already have fields for accession number
11:56 thd audun: 952 $p is for barcode by default.
11:56 audun kf: right..so i -do- have to add it manually then
11:55 kf audun: you need a little more, item type, home and holding branch, according to your configuration in Koha
11:54 kf thd: I can test that, but need to finish some other things today, so I can tell you next week
11:54 audun kf: Hmm..I have. must have done something wrong. I have mapped the acquisition number from the source db to 952$p
11:53 thd audun: What is your previous ILS?
11:53 thd kf: The web based import from a file and the internal record editor are the risks.
11:52 kf audun: marc21? you need to add 952 fields, its repeatable, one for each item
11:52 thd kf: I think that Z39.50 is safe now and I merely forgot about the fact.
11:52 audun using marcedit
11:52 kf thd: what was your source for the work you did on mab2 unification?
11:51 audun Migrating from an ms access database
11:51 thd audun: From what automation system are you migrating?
11:51 kf thd: I think this is no problem. how to proceed? I can do some testing with staged import / z39.50 next week and find out about 689 and similar fields.
11:49 thd audun: Sorry, what format are your items in currently?
11:49 thd kf: Well we should include a link to the website in a note for the frameworks.
11:49 audun thd: How would I go about adding those items?
11:48 kf 689 is on dnb web site I think, but probably only in german
11:48 kf thd: im just the one to teach koha - because koha is the first ILS that will use marc21 in our consortia
11:47 thd kf: It would be good to have a list of sources of documentation for major uses which are not part of the official standard.
11:47 kf thd: I will ask my colleague about a list, she is the real export and was involved in "mab2 unification"
11:47 thd kf: Definitely.
11:46 kf thd: ok, I just wondered if its ok to include them
11:46 thd kf: I have special fields used by OCLC and RLIN (now part of OCLC) included in the frameworks.
11:45 thd kf: Everyone should have them available in all languages for anything major.
11:45 thd kf: We should make a list of those.
11:44 thd kf: Oh yes
11:44 kf schlagwortketten (subject chains? )
11:44 kf 689
11:44 kf there are some fields not documented in marc21 I think but used by dnb and union catalogs
11:44 thd kf: I need to check the items fields for some changes so that the default framework would not necessarily break things.
11:43 thd kf: there is an SQL file or a set of them but I have already done most of the work.
11:42 thd kf: the Z39.50 client changed 3 years ago so I had forgotten that the issue is probably fixed for Z39.50.
11:42 kf thd: anyway the marc21 frameworks should be updated, but I was not sure how to start with it
11:42 kf thd: I will be on vacation for the next 2 days, but I think we should test if the bug is still there
11:42 thd kf: Using the internal record editor is the big risk.
11:41 thd kf: The command line scripts are safe for importing.
11:41 thd kf: I think that if you use the internal Koha record editor to edit your records, you will still loose data for undefined subfields.
11:40 kf thd: yes, and we will use staged marc import now and bulkauthimport to update data weekly from union catalog, nightly once we have an automated solution
11:40 audun thd: So I have to manually add items to each record? woah
11:39 thd kf: and bulkauthimport.pl ?
11:39 kf thd: I think we need to add all $0 and all $w, and some new fields?
11:39 thd kf: so you first started with bulkmarcimport.pl ?
11:38 kf audun: thd is right, this should be the easiest way
11:38 thd audun: there is no effective feature that you imagine
11:38 thd audun: add your items to the bibliographic record set before importing
11:37 thd audun: start again and add your items
11:37 kf thd: yes, but I think I will leave them untranslated
11:37 kf thd: I think we used all of them, first bulk, but also staged because we migrated bibliographic information from union catalog and item information from ms access (creating very basic records, overlayed by union catalog records later)
11:36 thd Real libraries still have records with the obsolete fields
11:36 audun So I've managed to import 5000 marc records from an msaccess db. Trouble is, none of them contain embeded items. Is there some way to do a bulk item creation?
11:36 thd :)
11:36 kf thd: I basically finished German translation for bd yesterday, but I set many markers, becaue I have no translation for all those obsolete fields
11:35 thd kf: how had you been importing data?
11:35 thd kf: yes that was my question for you
11:35 kf thd: I just wondered if the bug is still there, I did some testing for z39.50 with marc21 from our union catalog today, I got a field called LOK, which was (of course) not defined in the framework, but got saved in xml in import_records
11:32 kf thd: reading your mail right now
11:30 thd kf: are you there?
11:24 hdl_laptop It is in Tools
11:24 hdl_laptop |Lupin|: yes there is.
11:20 |Lupin| so that librarians can post news to the OPAC... ?
11:20 |Lupin| isn't there a news system somewhere in Koha ?
10:55 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ok, thanks
10:55 hdl_laptop it is enough.
10:54 |Lupin| hdl_laptop or fredericd: for a field not to be indexed by zebra, is it enough to comment it in records.abs, or is there something else to take care of ?
10:46 hdl_laptop and word to query and indexing
10:45 hdl_laptop sort applies to sorting
10:34 Jpr ?
10:34 Jpr is it word-phrase-utf.chr that is in /etc/koha/zebradb/etc or one of the sort-string-utf.chr in ...zebradb/lang_defs/...
10:33 Jpr in the /etc/koha/zebradb there are various .chr files (zebra character set files), and I'm not sure which one applies to searches in Koha:
10:31 Jpr hey all, I have a question on Zebra character sets in Koha:
09:53 amadan no worries
09:51 hdl_laptop chris around ?
09:50 nicomo sorry, wrong channel
09:50 nicomo http://pepys.biblibre.com/dol_cvs/dolibarr_2_4/htdocs/soc.php?socid=116
09:45 amadan thks man
09:45 kf perhaps this will help: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=koha_3_install_guide_ubuntu_hardy
09:43 kf you must reindex your records with a cronjob every x minutes - rebuild_zebra.pl and zebrasrv must be running
09:43 amadan u hv the link
09:42 kf I think it was explained in one of the installation manuals for ubuntu. hm.
09:41 amadan perhaps might help
09:41 amadan u can share your experience
09:40 kf I have only done it on my test laptop and I am not using cronjobs there... perhaps someone else can help out?
09:39 amadan fedora 10
09:39 amadan I mean how do i do that?
09:39 kf which os are u using?
09:38 amadan any pointers to that?
09:38 kf amadan: you probably need to index your data and zebrasrv must be running
09:38 amadan i installed koha with zebra
09:37 amadan yes i have
09:37 amadan does anyone know where i can get training on koha either online on face to face?
09:37 kf amadan: have you installed koha with zebra?
09:36 amadan koha not oha
09:36 amadan Need help, installed koha but the search engine seems not to bring up any items stored in oha
08:42 munin paul_p: Error: I haven't seen owen, I'll let you do the telling.
08:42 paul_p @tell owen about: sometimes misses the ability in 2.x to search a specific MARC field...but wouldn't give up Zebra to get it back
08:34 thd ftherese: Actually, the notes seem to indicate to use both 225 and 410 in all cases except when there is no standardised name for the for the series established.
08:30 thd ftherese: 410 is for the authority controlled name of a series if the form transcribed from the work being catalogued does not use the standard series name.
08:29 thd ftherese: I had never thought about that but you may have found a good rule
08:28 ftherese It seems that the logic there is to use the lower number whenever possible
08:27 thd ftherese: 225 and not 410 is the primary series field in UNIMARC.
08:27 ftherese I am now dealing with another problem... I think that the MarcEdit must have limit as to how many lines it can handle per file that it must translate
08:27 thd ftherese: You should check the old UNIMARC concise bibliographic manual, http://archive.ifla.org/VI/3/p1996-1/sec-uni.htm
08:26 ftherese that's ok
08:26 thd ftherese: I had forgotten that the recent UNIMARC documentation linked from BNF has no helpful explanation nor examples.
08:22 |Lupin| hi ftherese
08:16 ftherese morning :)
08:14 |Lupin| guten morgen kf
08:10 kf good morning all
08:03 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ok, sorry
08:01 hdl_laptop was just to say hi
08:01 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ?
07:54 hdl_laptop |Lupin|:
07:54 hdl_laptop hi
07:49 |Lupin| chris: around ?
07:49 |Lupin| oops
07:49 |Lupin| chris_n: ahi
06:50 |Lupin| good day / eening all
06:48 Ropuch Good morning
06:32 nicomo bonjour koha
05:15 brendan cya all later
05:15 munin brendan: The operation succeeded.
05:15 brendan @later tell brendan - you got some things to remember
05:14 brendan later all
04:16 SelfishMan Is it just me or are people multiplying in ihere?
03:31 Jo hi amit
03:25 brendan hi Amit
03:25 chris_n2 g'morning Amit... g'night #koha
03:21 Amit good morning #koha
03:21 Amit hi chris, brendan
02:31 Jo still working out how to maximise the power of kete
02:30 * chris_n2 greets gmcharlt
02:30 Jo so using it to gather up research around the topic which i want to keep on hand and share, and discuss. the pest analysis is being carried out among a bunch of us - the wiki side of kete has not really been explored much by us yet.
02:29 brendan cool - i will read about it
02:29 Jo i have been using kete as a consultation tool too - on visioning libraries of the future: http://kete.library.org.nz/site/topics/show/76-horowhenua-library-services-2030
02:28 Jo hehe
02:27 brendan I also have fun looking at your site -- I seem to learn something everytime (that means a good site in my mind)
02:25 brendan really cool
02:25 Jo a real treasure
02:25 Jo it is nice
02:25 brendan enjoying the artwork of wendy
02:25 brendan I was looking at your kete earlier
02:25 brendan cool
02:24 Jo Brendan: want to see an example of Koha drawing in results from Kete: http://opac.koha.catalystdemo.net.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=maori+battalion
02:24 Jo afternoon all
02:24 Jo hi Brendan
02:23 brendan hi Jo
01:44 brendan evening #koha
01:30 chris_n2 does this '__PACKAGE__->foo_class('Package::foo');' make foo class a part of the __PACKAGE__ class?
01:23 brendan cya all in a bit #koha
01:10 chris_n2 or at least a part thereof
01:10 chris_n2 there's a cool $150K for the first prime with at least 10,000,000 digits
01:08 * chris_n2 participates in the Mersenne prime search (http://mersenne.org)
01:08 * thd is off to perform his civic duty
01:07 brendan with the last one solved by a recloose in Russian, who never collected the prize
01:06 brendan yeah -- my wife is always interested in some of the "open questions" in mathematics
01:05 chris_n2 back to reality now :-P
01:05 thd brendan: Solve the carbon sequestration problem and Richard Branson will give you a billion or some such sum.
01:05 brendan cool -- enjoyed looking at the site -- was never serious :)
01:04 thd brendan: There are also much larger prizes.
01:04 thd brendan: There are much less expensive contests with large prizes
01:04 brendan more fun to watch :)
01:03 * chris_n2 's wallet is smoking :-)
01:03 chris_n2 after Jan 1, 2010, it jumps to $50K
01:02 chris_n2 ok brendan... the registration is a mere $30K
01:02 thd brendan: The robot part confused me about which contest it was.
01:01 thd brendan: Oh yes, most participants are spending far more than that to compete.
01:01 brendan thd: http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/
01:00 thd brendan: Who is offering the $30 million?
01:00 ftherese ok... I'll take a look at that... Right now I am writing a function to concatenate my call numbers
00:59 thd ftherese: Using the 'hidden' values for the bibliographic frameworks and other values for subfields, you can control how the record editor functions.
00:54 thd ftherese: There is a table for possible values for hidden in the popup help linked from the '?' help link in the upper right corner of the subfields editor in the bibliographic frameworks editor.
00:51 brendan build robot send to space -- sound good
00:51 chris_n2 hehe
00:51 brendan think I have an new company mission :)
00:50 brendan yup
00:50 chris_n2 brendan: $30 million is very tempting...
00:50 brendan needed a moment of distraction and that is perfect
00:50 brendan ha thanks chris_n2
00:49 thd ftherese: The English UNIMARC framework is however not well tested to my knowledge and I only partially edited someone else's initial work on that framework.
00:48 thd ftherese: The MARC 21 and English UNIMARC frameworks are already set up to preserve data which you ad for what is defined in those frameworks.
00:47 chris_n2 and writing the software in perl... :-S
00:47 thd ftherese: There are only a few hidden ID fields which are an exception to the risk of losing data if you do not set the frameworks properly.
00:47 * chris_n2 considers entering the Google Lunar X PRIZE
00:47 chris_n2 mason++
00:46 thd ftherese: You can change the behaviour but so that something will appear but if you do not you will loose the data stored in the subfield for any subfield which does not appear in the record editor.
00:44 thd ftherese: That is a very important point to know what is defined as appearing in the record editor including which subfields within a field
00:44 hugo_ mason: I was trying on 10.5 just about all summer
00:43 thd ftherese: You could populate 852 but unless you modify the Koha MARC bibliographic frameworks to use the field in the record editor, anything which you add to 852 will be lost upon editing the record with the internal Koha record editor..
00:41 thd ftherese: Use 995 $k which is defined for items.itemcallnumber .
00:41 mason i got my OSX 10.4 running the latest dev version of koha3 only 2 weeks ago.. , it took *lots* of experimenting
00:40 thd ftherese: one day in the future it will be but for now we have 995 for Koha UNIMARC holdings default and 952 for Koha MARC 21 holdings default.
00:39 mason then use your working debian install to help set up your OSX koha
00:39 hugo_ mason: thank you. Downloading netinstall of Debian now
00:39 mason if you have problems with your debian install, everyone can help you,
00:39 thd ftherese: 852 is not supported in Koha for items management.
00:39 hugo_ yes - that my plan mason - I just want to get it running - see that I can do it.
00:38 thd ftherese: Then you merely need to combine it into a single string
00:38 ftherese I could just put them all as 852$j
00:38 ftherese it is already split up
00:37 thd ftherese: Why would you split it?
00:37 ftherese I've got to split that up into the options they have
00:37 thd ftherese: If you ask on the French Koha mailing list, I suspect that some people could direct you to a helpful guides for UNIMARC.
00:37 ftherese A - ## - AAA - ## -- *
00:36 ftherese ok our call number (cotation) system looks like this:
00:36 thd ftherese: I only know of the very complete UNIMARC texts. not the friendly tutorials
00:36 mason hugo_ , get a debian koha running 1st, then attempt your OSX install..
00:35 ftherese you are being a big help
00:35 ftherese no worries
00:34 thd ftherese: I have poor access to UNIMARC material in the US except mostly for what is available electronically.
00:34 ftherese not your fault
00:33 ftherese :(
00:33 thd ftherese: Unfortunately, I have not included any UNIMARC material.
00:33 thd ftherese: I have a bibliography for learning library cataloguing and classification at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:standards:cataloguing_classification:bibliography
00:31 hugo_ Cool - thank you.
00:31 thd ftherese: You would need to find the UNIMARC equivalent.
00:31 chris if you have a decent net connection, the net install is fine
00:30 thd ftherese: The introduction to MARC cataloguing at http://libraries.idaho.gov/page/able is very easy but it is MARC 21 based.
00:30 chris nope
00:30 hugo_ I'd like to get the install started tonight. I notice that the link here http://kohaindia.org/debian-lenny/ says to download the DVD's. If instead I follow this link http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst and do the net install, am I starting off on the wrong foot?
00:26 thd ftherese: 215 is for physical description such as number of pages or number of volumes in a set.
00:25 ftherese what about pages?
00:25 ftherese right... I've done that once before
00:24 thd ftherese: Home : Administration : Libraries and Groups is the path for defining libraries and their associated codes.
00:23 hugo_ (Debian is new to me too - I use Mac OS X day to day
00:23 thd ftherese: yes
00:23 chris hugo_: thats the right starting point, and go for stable (lenny)
00:23 thd ftherese: One of the first tasks is to define the Library branches and branch codes which can be only one main library but an important step.
00:23 ftherese so both 995$b and $c need to have the branch/library code in them?
00:21 thd ftherese: In addition to 995 $b, Propriétaire, 'items.homebranch each item should have 995 $c dépositaire permanent, items.holdingbranch even if the branch codes are the same for both.
00:21 hugo_ My second question is, do I simply go here: http://www.debian.org/distrib/ - or are there choices I need to make to get the right thing?
00:18 hugo_ cool, thanks
00:18 chris yeah taht should be fine
00:18 hugo_ maybe 500 patrons
00:18 hugo_ I'd guess a couple thousand books, tops
00:18 hugo_ very small local library. One branch.
00:18 chris how big a library are you going to be running?
00:17 hugo_ my guess is that's plenty - am I right?
00:17 hugo_ it's a 3.2 GHz P4, with 1 GB RAM
00:17 thd hugo_: OSX is not worth the effort unless you have a great amount of time.
00:17 hugo_ a client has donated an old dell (they bought a Mac), and I'd like to know if it's up to the job -
00:17 hugo_ that is my hope!
00:16 chris right, following the INSTALL.debian-lenny guide is probably your best bet then
00:16 hugo_ thought I'd love to get the Mac working later...
00:16 hugo_ ah - but you see, with the deadline, I'm "giving up" and going to go with Debian
00:15 thd ftherese: if you have many numbers for a book series then you might create a separate record for each with a 410 field to designate the series which they all have in common.
00:15 munin chris: mason was last seen in #koha 1 day, 11 hours, 3 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <mason> fyi: use zebra, nozeb has old functionallity gaps, and no-one is working on fixing them
00:15 chris @seen mason
00:15 chris if you can catch him, he might be some help
00:15 chris hugo_: mason has been doing some installs on macs
00:14 chris mason: are you around?
00:14 hugo_ I've spent quite some time learning that I don't know enough to get Koha to install on a Mac. Frustrating, and I'd like to keep trying... but I'm running up against a deadline.
00:13 hugo_ I wonder if I might ask some questions before beginning an install...?
00:12 gmcharlt yep, I'm just telling you that I have in fact made a change
00:12 thd gmcharlt: I just copied the previous agenda and simplified it.
00:12 thd gmcharlt: I suggested that you change the agenda
00:12 hugo_ Hello everyone
00:11 gmcharlt thd: note change I made to agenda for tomorrow
00:11 thd ftherese: 410 is for books
00:11 ftherese series of books
00:11 thd ftherese: do you mean a regularly issued periodical or a series of books?
00:10 ftherese with lots of numbers in the collection
00:10 ftherese Sources Chretiennes
00:10 ftherese so... for a collection like
00:09 thd ftherese: 410 $h is for the number of a series
00:07 ftherese where does the number go?
00:07 ftherese I see 410
00:07 ftherese what about collection
00:07 ftherese ah
00:07 thd ftherese: 200 $c might have "by T S Eliot" exactly as the words appear in the book.
00:06 thd ftherese: The joined representation transcribed from the book would go in 200 $c
00:05 thd ftherese: 7XX is for the official name.
00:05 ftherese then would those fields be "joined"
00:05 ftherese ok
00:05 thd ftherese: As you said all tertiary, etc. authors would be added to repeated 702 fields
00:04 ftherese ahh got it
00:04 thd ftherese: 701 is when you cannot establish a primary author
00:03 ftherese what about 701?
00:03 thd ftherese: The secondary author in 702
00:02 thd ftherese: The primary author would go in 700
00:02 thd ftherese: MARC 21 is simpler on the treatment of author fields only.
00:02 thd ftherese: yes I failed to remember UNIMARC correctly
00:00 ftherese or would I join all the secondary authors, by using the "join" feature
00:00 ftherese and they would remain separate
00:00 ftherese all the secondary authors would go in 701
00:00 thd ftherese: The secondary author in 701
00:00 thd ftherese: The primary author would go in 700