Time  Nick            Message
23:27 pianohacker     chris_n++ # for working on labels unicode problems, tough and touchy problem
23:19 chris_n^2       does anyone have a few unicode bibs with lots of diacriticals they could send my way?
23:13 chris           but yep, shouldnt be hard to do
23:13 chris           which ill need to do at home when i can poke my firewall
23:10 chris_n^2       greets even
23:09 chris           i have to set up the web side of it
23:08 * chris_n^2     greats pastebot
23:08 chris_n^2       I actually got a positive response from an insider at Adobe concerning some of the unicode difficulties we've been having with the labels pdf code
23:03 chris           yep thats it
23:01 chris_n^2       for example
23:01 chris_n^2       http://p3m.org/pfn/perl
23:01 chris           ill give it a go
23:01 chris_n^2       yeah, it would be a nice addition
23:01 chris           and its perl, sweet
22:59 chris           http://sourceforge.net/projects/pastebot/
22:59 chris           pastebot
22:59 chris           make either munin or the log bot do it
22:58 chris           but yeah, i probably could
22:58 chris           probably some bot does it
22:58 * chris_n^2     saw something like this on #perl
22:58 chris_n^2       chris: can you configure the channel so that when someone pastes to koha.pastebin.com a notice is posted to the channel?
22:41 chris           yeah, ill do something
22:40 Jo              Chris:i need that visualization tool / map og koha installs
22:40 chris           cya pianohacker
22:40 Jo              cya
22:40 pianohacker     Time to log off for day, cya koha
22:39 Jo              Africa coming onboard prettu quick and Europe next
22:39 Jo              WE've got USA, France, South America and India pretty much sewn up
22:39 Jo              lol - ok
22:39 chris           yeah we should just say. "Who is using koha? ... who isnt using koha"
22:38 Jo              ok its all toomuch - koha is just too prevalent around the world to talk about .. its like a virus :)
22:37 chris           http://stats.workbuffer.org/irclog/koha/2009-09-28#i_311981
22:37 Jo              there are gajillions in France
22:36 Jo              cool :)
22:36 chris           its all in the log jo
22:35 Jo              (can you teach me how to copy from irc too)
22:35 Jo              thanks
22:35 * chris         shows nengard http://koha.pastebin.com :-)
22:30 hdl_laptop      in France
22:30 hdl_laptop      SAN Ouest -Provence is sbout 300000 items
22:29 nengard         i'm sure there's more - not everyone puts their info on lib-web-cats
22:29 pianohacker     Interesting info, though :) didn't know there were that many
22:28 nengard         sorry
22:28 nengard         search here: http://www.librarytechnology.org/lwc-search-advanced.pl
22:28 pianohacker     Ahghhh pasteflood
22:28 nengard         still mostly US ....
22:28 nengard         West Texas Library System. ( Lubbock, TX United States) Display all the libraries participating in: West Texas Library System [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime] +
22:28 nengard         Walla Walla Area Library Network. ( Walla Walla, WA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Walla Walla Area Library Network [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime] +
22:28 nengard         Southwest School Corporation . ( Sullivan, IN United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Shared Catalog of Indiana Online [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime]
22:28 nengard         Southeast Kansas Library System (SEKLS). ( Iola, KS United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Southeast Kansas Regional Library System [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime]
22:28 nengard         South Central Library System. ( Madison, WI United States) Display all the libraries participating in: South Central Library System [web site ]  [online catalog] [Koha -- LibLime] +
22:28 nengard         Saugeen Library Consortium. ( Hanover, ON Canada) Display all the libraries participating in: Saugeen Library Consortium [web site ]  [Koha -- Independent] +
22:28 nengard         Northeast Massachusetts Regional Library System. ( Danvers, MA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: MassCat [Koha -- LibLime]
22:27 nengard         Northeast Kansas Library System. ( Lawrence, KS United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Northeast Kansas Library System [web site ]  [online catalog] [Koha -- LibLime] +
22:27 nengard         Metrowest Massachusetts Regional Library System. ( Waltham, MA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: MassCat [Koha -- LibLime]
22:27 nengard         MassCat. ( South Deerfield, MA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: MassCat [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime]
22:27 nengard         Independently Cooperating Ashtabula Network. ( Jefferson, OH United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Independently Cooperating Ashtabula Network [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime]
22:27 nengard         INCOLSA, Inc.. ( Indianapolis, IN United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Shared Catalog of Indiana Online [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime] +
22:27 nengard         Crawford County Federated Library System. ( Meadville, PA United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Crawford County Federated Library System [web site ]  [online catalog] [Koha -- LibLime] +
22:27 nengard         Central Kansas Library System. ( Great Bend, KS United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Central Kansas Library System [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime] +
22:27 nengard         Big Country Library System. ( Abilene, TX United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Big Country Library System [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime] +
22:27 nengard         Automation System Consortia Colorado. ( United States) Display all the libraries participating in: Automation System Consortia Colorado [web site ]  [Koha -- LibLime] +
22:27 nengard         list list found on lib-web-cats:
22:22 nengard         no prob at all
22:22 nengard         http://www.slideshare.net/nengard
22:22 Jo              oh cool - thanks Nicole. thats really generous.
22:22 nengard         http://www.web2learning.net/publications-presentations
22:21 nengard         feel free to steal
22:21 nengard         on slideshare and on my website
22:21 nengard         all my presentations are online
22:20 Jo              (she does these presentations in her sleep :)
22:20 chris           heh
22:19 Jo              Chris: we should've just got Nicole to do this for us you know ..
22:19 nengard         no clue about those
22:19 Jo              ok cool - thats current enough to use.
22:18 Jo              south america?
22:18 nengard         it was dated 3/3/2009
22:18 Jo              are there others in Europe? India? Africa?
22:18 Jo              thoise are all in the states
22:18 Jo              thanks Nicole
22:17 chris           well, they wont have gotten any smaller :)
22:17 Jo              or is it 'c2008"
22:17 Jo              in a presentation in NZ?
22:17 Jo              too out of date to use?
22:17 nengard         from an old presentation i did
22:17 Jo              fantastic
22:17 nengard         that data is out of date
22:17 chris           NEKLS is the size of NZ  :)
22:16 nengard         116 member libraries
22:16 nengard         Northeast Kansas Library System
22:16 nengard         100+ member libraries
22:16 nengard         MassCat
22:16 nengard         30 member libraries
22:16 nengard         Indiana Cooperative Library Services Authority (INCOLSA)
22:16 nengard         31 member libraries
22:16 nengard         Central Kansas Library System
22:16 nengard         6 member libraries; 166,597 bibs
22:16 nengard         Independently Cooperating Ashtabula Network (ICAN)
22:16 nengard         9 member libraries; 246,616 items; 518,382 annual circulation
22:16 nengard         Crawford County Federated Library System
22:15 chris           yep
22:14 Jo              Chris: thinking is the ideal stage to promote Koha for the nz wide lynsync
22:13 Jo              have you got a list of the cool features 3.0 has over more usual LMS
22:13 Jo              Nicole - go baby!
22:13 nengard         hang on
22:13 nengard         one of my old slide shows had a list of consortia in it
22:13 Jo              goodo
22:13 chris           ive never written a full presentation yet
22:12 Jo              (may not get a formalpaper written ... but should be able to wing it aye Chris!)
22:12 Jo              working on the outline of the prsebntation chris and i are doing at conference soon...
22:11 chris           ASCC arent live afaik
22:11 Jo              ASCC
22:11 nengard         not sure
22:11 chris           and incolsa?
22:11 chris           CKLS .. how big are they?
22:11 nengard         those sound about right
22:10 chris           nengard probably knows more than me
22:10 chris           SEKLS?
22:10 chris           Masscat ??
22:10 chris           NEKLS
22:09 Jo              spot quizz: who are the big Koha consortias of public libraries throughout the world?
21:53 chris           yep
21:52 hdl_laptop      It is also related to searching in authorities before searching biblios
21:52 hdl_laptop      And marcxml for biblios would be lighter
21:52 hdl_laptop      Moreover, generating xml record for items would be much faster than a biblio which has 100 items
21:51 chris           *nod*
21:51 hdl_laptop      then both would be really separated, and we would not have the problem of xml parsing and then regenerating.
21:50 hdl_laptop      And not rely only on biblio
21:49 hdl_laptop      But in my opinion, we should definetely have a 'holding' database
21:49 hdl_laptop      i agree.
21:49 chris           yes, but they shouldnt be
21:48 hdl_laptop      If you allow ppl to search for only onshelves items, then both are related.
21:48 chris           waiting to parse the xml everytime you issue something is inefficient
21:48 chris           there should be a process to update the xml, outside of the circ process, like updating zebra
21:47 chris           not searching
21:47 chris           we are talking about circulation
21:47 hdl_laptop      (and those are items values.)
21:47 hdl_laptop      yes But search can search for branch and onloan and all that stuff.
21:46 chris           thats what it is for
21:46 chris           we should be just using the items table
21:46 hdl_laptop      I prefer the first solution.
21:46 chris           yes circ is slower now than it was, we can fix that (and we will fix that)
21:46 hdl_laptop      Either we part item and biblios Or we throw marcxml away in order to use YAML.
21:45 hdl_laptop      owen there is a serious perf issue because items are inside the marcxml
21:41 chris           but there might be a bigger academic now
21:41 owen            I had someone ask me about performance, so I was curious.
21:41 chris           (im thinking NEU cos academic libraries do stupidly high amounts of circ)
21:40 owen            NPL's peak was almost 650K in '04
21:39 chris           im guessing NEU is still near the top
21:39 wizzyrea        not it
21:39 chris           not me
21:38 owen            Anyone have any numbers for highest-circ library using Koha?
19:44 richard         hey chris
19:44 chris           morning richard
19:44 richard         hiya pianohacker
19:44 pianohacker     hello
19:43 richard         hi
19:40 hdl_laptop      yes.
19:39 chris           heya hdl_laptop, working late?
19:33 hdl_laptop      hi chris
19:32 chris           back
19:26 hdl_laptop      "atomic updates" should get into updatedatabase.pl in order to have all the database updates for this branch
19:25 hdl_laptop      This branch is based on current master. So it should not be too much of a burden to take it.
19:23 hdl_laptop      )
19:23 hdl_laptop      I have pushed some more things on CodeRunBase you can see that on koha-biblibre.git (branch master
19:23 gmcharlt        at this point, before the Koha meeting next week
19:23 hdl_laptop      I wondered if you had any schedule for integration of this branch ?
19:22 gmcharlt        ok
19:22 hdl_laptop      I have pushed some more things on CodeRunBase you can see that on koha-biblibre.git
19:20 gmcharlt        hdl_laptop: yep
19:20 hdl_laptop      gmcharlt: around ?
19:15 jdavidb         There is silly, and there is clueless.
19:15 pianohacker     man should have a sense of humor; only thing that'll keep him from going insane
19:15 * jdavidb       nods.
19:14 owen            To this nerd, there's a good silly and a not-so-good silly
19:13 * jdavidb       was about to say, "When did we last see a President doing something silly like that," then remembers Dubya holding the flag up *backwards* during the Beijing Olympics, and decides to say nothing...
19:12 pianohacker     whoom
19:11 * jdavidb       pulls out his blue plastic light saber, and duels like the President.
19:10 owen            I thought nerds fought with flashlights while making light saber noises.
19:09 * nicomo_laptop goes to bed, have a good day all
19:02 wizzyrea        nerd fight, fighting nerds, they don't use fists, they use words!
18:59 * chris         goes to catch his bus
18:57 nicomo_laptop   I have time before she's a teenager
18:57 chris           yup :)
18:57 nicomo_laptop   but at 5, taht rules
18:57 nicomo_laptop   yeah
18:57 chris           :)
18:57 chris           of course once she is a teenager, it wont be fun anymore "GO TO SCHOOL!!!!"
18:56 chris           heh that rules :)
18:56 nicomo_laptop   sunday morning I had to wake her up at 9:30am because we were going to meet friends
18:55 nicomo_laptop   boy do I love her
18:55 nicomo_laptop   my daughter likes to sleep so much she doesn't care one way or the other
18:54 * owen          hates the DST bedtime issue as well
18:54 nicomo_laptop   basically :-)
18:54 nicomo_laptop   anything that could did
18:54 chris           what went wrong?
18:54 * chris         hopes so too
18:54 chris           hehe, yeah just makes it harder to get the kid to go to bed "but the sun is shining"
18:54 nicomo_laptop   let's hope tomorrow's better
18:54 nicomo_laptop   I have to say I had a wretched day
18:53 * nicomo_laptop never quite understood those
18:53 nicomo_laptop   ah, yes
18:53 chris           daylight savings started on sunday
18:53 nicomo_laptop   ok
18:53 chris           nearly 8am
18:53 nicomo_laptop   9pm here
18:53 nicomo_laptop   What time is it?
18:53 nicomo_laptop   up already?
18:52 nicomo_laptop   hi chris
18:52 chris           hi nicomo_laptop
18:45 pianohacker     hahaha
18:45 joetho          Geek Wars!  a new reality show idea.
18:45 pianohacker     owen: yes, that would be nice. The current restriction seems a bit much
18:44 pianohacker     joetho: hah, not at all, just some other geek that got angry at me and flailed at me for a bit
18:44 owen            What I really want is the ability to delete a biblio with items attached from the normal view.
18:43 pianohacker     Anyway. owen: it seems to me like you'd normally want to delete after looking at the normal or marc views, but I could be wrong
18:43 joetho          you? pianohacker, in a fight? I would pay money to have witnessed that. I hope you didn't actually get punched, though...
18:41 * jdavidb       put a horseshoe into *one* of the three boxing gloves.  Y'all figure out which.
18:41 pianohacker     So keep your money :)
18:41 pianohacker     The last time I got into a fight, it was far more ridiculous than threatening
18:38 * jdavidb       opens up the betting windows.
18:37 pianohacker     Yeah I got a problem with your workflow bub
18:37 * jdavidb       hands owen and pianohacker boxing gloves.  Just one, for pianohacker.
18:36 pianohacker     hehe
18:36 wizzyrea        ooh, I love it when Owen gets all uppity.
18:34 * owen          blusters
18:34 owen            Hey man you got a problem with my workflow?
18:34 pianohacker     Probably. also, it doesn't seem like a very typical workflow
18:33 cait_laptop     thx for your help and bye :)
18:33 owen            Hmmm... Why is there no delete button on addbiblio.pl? Maybe because the page doesn't know whether there are items attached?
18:32 cait_laptop     have to catch my bus now - quiz night at local irish pub with colleagues
18:32 cait_laptop     I will add a bug report later and correct it
18:32 cait_laptop     you helped me with it, so maybe :)
18:32 owen            Maybe that's what I'm thinking of
18:31 cait_laptop     I did a patch for this text on list interface
18:30 owen            These look familiar though, like there was a patch recently for it. It may already be in line for 3.2
18:30 owen            Line 87 should be $("#tagsel_tag").text(_("Tag"));
18:30 owen            Line 81 should more correctly read $(".hold").text(_("Place Hold"));
18:29 cait_laptop     Tag is also not translatable
18:29 owen            There are a few untranslatable strings in there I see
18:29 cait_laptop     yeah, I know ;)
18:29 owen            Yeah, it's a bug
18:29 cait_laptop     embedded
18:28 pianohacker     cait_laptop: embedded js or external file?
18:28 cait_laptop     in javascript part
18:28 cait_laptop     opac-basket
18:28 pianohacker     ahh
18:28 owen            cait_laptop: Where is that?
18:28 jdavidb         I am missing it *now*, pianohacker; just recently shaved my face, after wearing a goatee for 20 years.  The whole-beard thing you saw in April was less than a year old.
18:28 cait_laptop     ok _ does not work
18:27 jwagner         owen, out of my meeting.  I tried the  $("a.addtocart").html("Add to Book Bag"); but it's still refusing to change the wording on that one spot.  Sigh.
18:27 cait_laptop     $(".hold").text_("Place Hold"); ?
18:27 * cait_laptop   found another untranslatable string
18:27 pianohacker     jdavidb: I think you're missing the necessary goatee
18:27 jwagner         But we Knew That!
18:27 * jdavidb       is the evil twin.
18:25 jdavidb         Ah.  Rats.
18:25 Colin           The cloning failed it was just my evil twin
18:25 chris_n         lol
18:25 jdavidb         I'd just let my clones each become subject-matter experts, and we could do trainings in relays.  :P
18:24 jdavidb         Need to make sure the protocol is not too lossy.
18:23 * jdavidb       shudders
18:23 owen            Maybe through iTunes?
18:23 owen            I'll take a clone if there's a way to sync our brains after we've been apart.
18:22 chris_n         on second thought: $alter_ego = $self->clone(number => $number_needed, improvements => @a_whole_array_of_them)
18:21 chris_n         $alter_ego = $self->clone($number_needed)
18:20 pianohacker     hmm, I need to talk to him; I need one me for school, and one to work on the poor, neglected sysprefs editor
18:18 jdavidb         I'm pleased as punch, if there are two.  The one we had already is a top-shelf colleague.  Writes good code, great to work with, and (apparently) never sleeps.
18:17 owen            Sure, that's how chris_n got the labels system upgraded
18:15 jdavidb         Two Colins?  Wow.  Maybe PTFS Europe has solved the degredation problem in cloning--bet both of them are wizards with the code!
18:14 cait_laptop     thx!
18:13 cait_laptop     owen: works great (as always :) )
18:10 chris           yes, i think it would be a hard game for him if he played
18:09 paul_p          I think he could be selected, but, seeing the buzz in NZ, I wouldn't be surprised if the french federations decided not to call him...
18:09 cait_laptop     give me 2 minutes to try :)
18:09 cait_laptop     I have used some of your tricks to kill some fields in memberentry before
18:09 chris           paul_p: ahhh ok
18:09 owen            cait_laptop: Do you know where to plug that in?
18:08 paul_p          chris: dunno, he can continue doing his job and to the GIW on spare time.
18:08 chris           s/with/when/
18:08 owen            $("optgroup[label='EnglishLabel']").attr("label","Translation");
18:08 owen            cait_laptop: An example:
18:07 chris           paul_p: so he wont be playing with NZ play France in Marseille ?
18:07 cait_laptop     owen: thx a lot!
18:07 paul_p          chris: M. Bastareaud just sentenced to do 18 "general interest works for the amatteur rugby", before june 2010
18:06 owen            give me a moment and I'll give it a try
18:06 cait_laptop     so an interim solution would be nice
18:05 cait_laptop     our librarian is a little unhappy about it
18:04 owen            As an interim solution while you're waiting for proper translation? I think so--at least for your javascript-enabled users
18:03 cait_laptop     seeing owen using jquery for renaming things - would this work for optgroups in sort by pull down too?
18:02 cait_laptop     chris: ok :) I will wait.
17:59 owen            That works for me in both places
17:59 owen            $("a.addtocart").html("Add to Book Bag");
17:59 chris           cait_laptop: yeah i think its a little tricky to do
17:58 jwagner         Gotta run to a meeting -- back in a bit.
17:58 owen            Oh right, sorry
17:57 jwagner         Under each title in the results list, where it says Actions, there's an Add to Your Cart link, and the jquery changed that to Bookbag OK.  It just won't do it on the detail page in that box to the right-hand side.
17:57 cait_laptop     chris: so its more complicated? I hoped I could do it
17:55 owen            jwagner: an add to cart link in the results list? That's a drop-down menu.
17:55 chris           cait_laptop: we will fix that for 3.2.0
17:55 jwagner         And I just started letting my hair grow out, too.  Maybe I should get it cut again....
17:55 chris           :)
17:55 chris           quick and out of my hair now = omg what is stuck in my hair in 3 months time
17:54 cait_laptop     how to make this show up in po-file? <optgroup label="Dates">
17:54 cait_laptop     speaking of translation...
17:54 jwagner         I'll have to look into translations at some point, but right now I'm trying for "quick and out of my hair"....
17:54 chris           http://translate.koha.org/en_USACADEMIC/ something like that
17:54 jwagner         No, there's an add to cart link in the results list -- that one changed OK.
17:53 chris           jwagner: the translation way is the most portable way
17:53 owen            Is that the other place you're referring to?
17:53 owen            jwagner: the "add to cart" link on the detail page is very different from the "add to cart" button in the search bar
17:52 jwagner         For this particular site, since I have a lot of other customizations, I may just do it as a template change.  Not the best solution, but if I can't make the jquery work I might go for the easy solution :-)
17:51 jwagner         Both of the places I'm trying to change start with <a class=addtocart and one works/other doesn't.
17:50 joetho          I wonder about stuff like this (cart vs bookbag) and all the translations.
17:50 chris           you only have to translate the words you want different
17:50 jdavidb         chris:  That's where you have all your extra U and S characters, right?  ;-)
17:50 * owen          agrees with chris that this seems the logical way to do it
17:50 jwagner         But it puzzles me why this same code works on another site & does replace that particular label.
17:50 chris           changes catalog to catalogue, check out to issue etc
17:50 chris           for both opac and intranet
17:49 chris           eg, i have en_NZ
17:49 * jdavidb       groans.  Gettin' deep in here.
17:49 owen            joetho: Oh great, thanks :|
17:49 chris           is to use the translation tools
17:49 joetho          owen changes nickname to cartman
17:49 chris           the best way to do it
17:49 pianohacker     *rimshot*
17:49 owen            There are too many places where the word "Cart" is used to be able to do this cleanly.
17:49 jwagner         Bookworms?
17:48 owen            Changing Cart to Bookbag is a huge can of worms. Cart of worms?
17:48 jwagner         });
17:48 jwagner         $("a.addtocart").html("Add to Your Bookbag");
17:48 jwagner         Here's what I'm using -- can you see the problem?  $(document).ready(function(){
17:47 jwagner         owen, another question for you, though.  Trying to use jquery to rename Add to Your Cart to Add to Your Bookbag.  I've done it before & it worked, but this time (latest Koha if that matters) it's replacing it one place but not on the box at upper right of an OPAC record display (Print, Add to Your Cart, More Searches).  The label looks the same.
17:46 jwagner         owen, yes favicon is now working (after severe Firefox armtwisting).
17:46 chris           excellent
17:45 cait_laptop     chris: wrote to German translation mailing list that I will edit po-files locally till saturday. beda says its ok and I think he is the only other who can approve suggestions.
17:38 chris           paul_p: thanks for the linkedin recommendation :)
17:37 * owen          has always found favicons difficult to test because of caching issues
17:37 cait_laptop     good evening jdavidb
17:37 owen            jwagner: Did you get your favicon sorted out?
17:37 jdavidb         Good evening, paul_p, and cait_laptop. :)
17:37 sekjal          good <localtime> to everyone
17:37 brendan         well then -- good evening paul_p
17:36 paul_p          morning to everyone that is at morning time (for me, it's 7:35PM ;-) )
17:36 brendan         :)
17:36 chris_n         heya brendan
17:36 cait_laptop     morning chris
17:36 brendan         morning #koha
17:35 jdavidb         Howdy, chris! :)
17:35 sekjal          that clears things up immensely
17:35 sekjal          thank you all
17:35 sekjal          wow
17:35 chris           morning
17:35 chris_n         g'morning chris
17:35 * chris_n       thinks not even *paid* support responds faster ;-)
17:34 chris           *snap*
17:34 chris_n         sekjal: from the root of your git clone run a dev install
17:34 chris           sekjal: the difference is, doing a dev install
17:34 cait_laptop     sekjal: you want to make a dev install?
17:31 sekjal          what about the Makefile?
17:31 sekjal          its just the two different directories that are throwing me.  should my server be looking at the directory I pulled from Git?
17:28 jwagner         I'm going to have to let one of the pros answer that.  I would think that different branches should work except perhaps where it modifies the database, but I'm pretty fuzzy on specifics.
17:25 sekjal          saying that, it really seems like I'm missing something
17:25 sekjal          yes, indeed.  but if the code is in one arrangement on git, and another when installed, then to get my server to recognize code, I'd have to install/upgrade each time
17:23 jwagner         I'm the lowliest novice on git, but for testing new features, shouldn't you be able to create a new branch for them?
17:22 sekjal          jwagner: ok
17:21 jwagner         Hmmm.  Following up on the favicon, for our git install, the image seems to need to go into koha-tmpl, koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/includes, and koha-tmpl/opac-tmpl/prog/en/includes.  We have multiple instances on this machine, and the Koha install doesn't look at /usr/share at all.
17:13 sekjal          originally tarball, but I upgraded from git
17:13 jwagner         Are you a git install or a tarball install?
17:12 sekjal          I've been trying to get my institutional development plan drafted up, and I think that this whole thing implies we'll have to reinstall/upgrade every time we want to test a newly coded feature
17:11 sekjal          to me, at least
17:11 sekjal          its confusing
17:10 sekjal          at least, that's where it winds up when I installed it
17:10 sekjal          but i think the 'live' version that the server recognizes is at /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs/...../en/includes
17:09 sekjal          right
17:09 jwagner         (Sorry -- etc. in the sense of et cetera, not a directory named etc)
17:08 jwagner         It's there in the git install, which is what I'm working from -- kohaclone/koha-tmpl/etc.
17:08 sekjal          I don't think that the koha-tmpl directory exists anywhere in the installed tree
17:07 sekjal          the code has two different directory structures: one for how it's distributed, and another when its installed
17:06 chris_n         adobe++ #for being helpful on a FOSS project
17:06 sekjal          or run 'make upgrade'
17:06 sekjal          I think you need to put the favicon in /opac/htdocs/opac-tmpl/prog/en/includes
17:05 jwagner         sekjal, not sure what you mean there.
17:05 * chris_n       actually gets a response to a question about unicode, diacriticals, and pdf from a pdf platform architect at Adobe.... wow!
17:04 sekjal          jwagner: I think koha-tmpl only occurs in the code as it's bundled, not as it's installed.
17:02 jwagner         Does anyone know where to put a customized favicon.ico image?  I tried putting it in koha-tmpl (where there was an existing one), but it's not showing up.  I've cleared my browser cache and refreshed the page with no luck.  Do you have to do anything else to get it to work?
16:38 kf              bye #koha :)
15:57 kf              made a typo in logo, now photoshop tells me .psd-file is broken *wants to cry*
15:56 kf              photoshop--
15:43 wizzyrea        oh yea that was hilarious
15:04 owen            wizzyrea: I loved the one of yours crashed on the bedroom floor
15:03 jwagner         I used to work with mad scientists....  At a safe distance, of course :-)
14:59 valczir_work    jdavidb: it's all over the 'net
14:57 jdavidb         valczir_work: How'd you get that picture of my office?    :P
14:56 valczir_work    jwagner: I have a picture in my head of a mad scientist hiding behind a thick wall, eyes poking over the top, carefully reaching over the wall to drip some substance into another one
14:50 jwagner         Including me.
14:49 Colin           at which point we all hide
14:49 jwagner         And at some point I may have to do some development for COSATI with Koha.
14:49 wizzyrea        Hil. ar. i. ous.
14:49 wizzyrea        omg. have you guys seen the pics of chris's kid dressed up as a punk?
14:49 jwagner         It's not in the "hands" of the government, but it was government librarians who developed it.  Even Worse!
14:48 Colin           yes formats in the hands of the government, that's really scary
14:48 jwagner         Awk!
14:48 jdavidb         Chicken.
14:48 jwagner         jdavidb, I'm not gonna comment.  I'm not gonna comment.  I'm not gonna comment....
14:47 * jdavidb       would say that MARC has driven him insane, but that presumes he was sane in the first place.
14:47 jwagner         Colin, if you REALLY want to go crazy, try working with COSATI format.  Non-MARC, used primarily for U.S. govt research documents, and hideous in all regards.
14:46 Colin           I think over the years I've learnt more about various MARCs than is compatible with sanity
14:42 jwagner         Still trying to forget that experience....
14:42 kf              cant top that
14:41 jwagner         Speaking of bad dreams, many years ago I was managing the migration from an old ILS to Unicorn.  That meant I had to learn a _lot_ about MARC and other data in a hurry.  By the end of that migration, I was dreaming in MARC record format.  That's REALLY traumatic for a non-librarian.....
14:41 jdavidb         Sure it's probably a nice place and all, since one of my favorite people is *from* there...but...probably not for me.
14:40 jwagner         Probably not.....
14:40 jdavidb         Not even, jwagner.  You know where that upcoming trip is--can you *imagine* me moving there?
14:39 jwagner         jdavidb, tired of us already?????
14:36 jdavidb         I had one last week where a training trip to a customer site (which, I *do* have upcoming) turned into a permanent change of duty station.  They ponied the money to have me full-time on their stuff.
14:34 kf              I m an expert in koha nightmares - will be glad when our library is finally live
14:34 jdavidb         That would be a nightmare!
14:33 wizzyrea        kf: thanks. :)
14:33 * kf            gives wizzyrea some virtual chocolate
14:32 * kf            spent hours yesterday searching bug in my code to find out I forgot to update German templates
14:32 wizzyrea        I think I had nightmares about vendor specific koha last night
14:31 wizzyrea        it's going ok :)
14:31 jdavidb         Seems likely.  Computers don't often *make* errors on their own; track back a couple of steps, and you find a programmer who goofed.  Human Error.
14:29 kf              i think its the most-common problem in every business
14:26 jdavidb         I try to code around that problem; enforce things with the code, or make so the admin can.  But you can't do that for everything.
14:26 jdavidb         That's just one of the perils of being in the IT business, kf.  The most-common problem in most IT is the one that exists between the keyboard and the chair.
14:24 kf              jdavidb: the problem is you have to repeat it too often
14:21 * jdavidb       has no problem telling users, "Then Don't Do That."
14:21 owen            Hi wizzyrea, how's it going?
14:19 wizzyrea        j/k
14:19 wizzyrea        ;)_
14:19 wizzyrea        ooh, harsh
14:17 owen            Yeah, that's what I figure too.
14:16 jwagner         On Their Own Heads Be It!
14:16 owen            Handy stuff. You just have to worry now about your users who surf the web with stylesheets turned off ;)
14:15 jwagner         owen, just used that display: none trick for something completely different.  Thanks -- I can cross that mod off my list :-)
14:11 valczir_work    hey, owen
14:11 owen            Hi valczir_work
14:09 jwagner         Yes, he's done several nifty features for us.
14:05 * owen          is happy to hear about Kyle doing work for PTFS. The more [paid] programmers the merrier!
13:33 kf              I have a lot of other tickets so that I can procrastinate this for a while ;)
13:30 owen            I've forgotten what little I knew about the ISBD formatting syntax.
13:29 kf              librarian likes isbd - but found mistakes in it she wants me to correct.
13:28 * owen          did the same to hide ISBD in his catalog
13:26 kf              will do :) your css worked like a charm - librarian will be happy
13:25 owen            I think it's worth filing a bug, though. There ought to be an OPAC version of the preferences you saw
13:24 owen            For both: "#MARCview, #MARCviewPop { display: none; }"
13:24 kf              owen: thx! thats really easy and nothing I thought of!
13:23 owen            kf, you could add "#MARCview { display:none; }" to your stylesheet (or to your OpacUserCSS pref)
13:19 kf              is there an easy way to not show marc and expanded marc view in opac? I found sys prefs for staff, but not for opac.
13:08 jwagner         OK, I won't do anything along those lines myself then.
13:01 owen            I may not have submitted the one for the OPAC yet, merging the message lists, can't remember.
13:00 owen            I submitted some on Friday
13:00 jwagner         Agreed :-)  I think you're working on patches for the display suggestions you made, correct?
12:59 owen            kyle++
12:58 owen            Awesome.
12:57 jwagner         owen, Kyle Hall just sent a patch to allow superlibrarians to delete messages from any branch.
12:57 jwagner         Morning, all
12:54 chris_n         g'morning
12:51 Colin           Hi
12:51 owen            Hi
12:51 jdavidb         Hiya, owen and Colin.  :)
11:51 |Lupin|         nice to see you online !
11:51 |Lupin|         hi Nicole !
10:20 kf              cool
10:16 chris           my father did his degree in russian, with french and german minors, so he reads to him :) (He is a licensed translator and interpreter for Maori too)
10:15 chris           he has books in german, french, maori and english
10:11 kf              chris: dont know that one - does kahurangi learn German? :)
09:53 chris           kf: http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=71249&g2_serialNumber=1 <-- like the book on the right?
09:53 |Lupin|         chris: ooooops !
09:50 chris           s/darcs/git/ :)
09:47 |Lupin|         chris: ah, maybe the 0001 was un old file that shold have been deleted... after deleting 000* and re-runningdarcs format-patch origin, everything seems to be fine
09:46 |Lupin|         chris: yeah this one is displayed in git log
09:35 chris           thats the last commit in the master branch
09:35 chris           http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=commit;h=2889603e0eb98980ed74d8ed678069ee823feed5
09:34 chris           hmmm
09:32 |Lupin|         chris: the commit name for the old one is commit 2889603e0eb98980ed74d8ed678069ee823feed5
09:31 |Lupin|         chris: no, the old one is 001 and the new one is 002
09:31 chris           what number is it, both patches arent 0001 are they?
09:31 chris           but if the patch had been accepted, then it would have not been made
09:31 |Lupin|         chris: ok... so what should I do ?
09:30 chris           a little bit different
09:30 chris           a pull is a fetch + merge
09:29 |Lupin|         chris: I think I fetched (git pull?) but perhaps the second part is missing ?
09:28 |Lupin|         is there something else I shold do ?
09:28 |Lupin|         I did a git pull before prepearing the patch..
09:28 chris           did you fetch and rebase before you created your patch?
09:28 |Lupin|         so I think it shold already bi in master
09:28 |Lupin|         but the other is a patch I had already submitted and which was accepted
09:27 |Lupin|         one of them is a patch I'd like to submit so that's fine
09:27 |Lupin|         and git created 2 files
09:27 |Lupin|         I just did a git format-patch origin
09:27 |Lupin|         hmm just in ase there are git experts aroun..
09:17 |Lupin|         guten morgen kf
09:10 kf              hi lupin
09:09 |Lupin|         hi
09:01 chris           hi hdl_laptop
08:57 hdl_laptop      chris ?
08:13 custard         I'll head off now and make some notes for next time I try and run an update :|
08:04 custard         Thanks mason.
08:04 custard         Yes, something wrong with koha-conf. The upgrade over wrote it, and it's one of the few files so far that I've acutally changed. So, naturally, things broke once apache realised.
08:03 custard         ok. functionally (but not elegantly) working koha again. And feeling sheepish about it too.
08:00 chris           evening
07:40 mason           at least -  thats what i do with my apache conf bugs , when i get them  :)
07:40 mason           .
07:39 mason           as its the only live one
07:39 mason           very probably in yr koha's apache.conf file ;)
07:38 mason           start simple, find the config goof
07:38 mason           test with a index.html file in a dir
07:38 mason           or edit your koha conf down to a simple 5 line hello-world test
07:37 mason           comment out one of your vhost enteries , in yr apche conf
07:37 mason           .
07:36 mason           and im too busy now to switch to an install
07:36 mason           so , i cant confirm your dir layout  - i dont have a koha of that install-type to test with
07:33 mason           ok, great
07:33 custard         3.000.02 (just caught up with current stable)
07:33 mason           3 dot  something ?
07:32 mason           yep, 3,2 - and yr versions is ?
07:32 custard         That's 3.2, yes?
07:31 mason           .
07:31 mason           http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=tree;f=koha-tmpl;h=a3b39433a59d8c30e221b28f93dd26576d1604b2;hb=HEAD
07:31 custard         and they're both not working.
07:31 custard         ?
07:30 custard         isn't that here: /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs/
07:30 mason           ok, so yr missing the internet-tmpl staff dirs :/
07:30 custard         opac-tmpl (and that's it)
07:29 mason           wot u get?
07:29 mason           ls -l  /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs
07:29 custard         this should be in DocumentRoot or one of the language localisations?
07:29 mason           yep
07:29 mason           ok, good... :)
07:29 custard         index.html?
07:28 custard         nup. even disabled default.
07:28 mason           and lots of other stuff?
07:28 custard         Ropouch: yep.
07:28 Ropuch          Do you have koha in sites-enabled?
07:27 custard         which currently says (and is what I'm sure I remember it saying) /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs
07:26 Ropuch          UGh
07:26 Ropuch          /etc/apache2/sites-available/koha:   DocumentRoot /usr/share/koha/intranet/htdocs
07:26 Ropuch          /etc/apache2/sites-available/koha:   DocumentRoot /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs
07:26 Ropuch          hm
07:26 mason           and index.html etc...
07:25 mason           should have your 'internet-tmpl' and 'opac-tmpl' dirs only
07:25 mason           DocumentRoot /home/mason/git/kap-k3-3/koha-tmpl
07:24 mason           check that line.
07:24 mason           "so that probably means your 'DocumentRoot' line is wrong"
07:23 mason           or, as i said before....
07:23 mason           i guess you've probably got another apache2 config file, thats overriding your koha one
07:19 custard         sorry about that Mason, bit of a drop-out. I was about to say I can't see a reason for it wanting "/htdocs", and that /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs definitely exits and is accessible.
07:16 kf              good morning :)
07:11 mason           in your apache config ( in case you read the irc.log )
07:11 mason           so that probably means your 'DocumentRoot' line is wrong
07:10 mason           right...
07:10 custard         <mason> Just doen a fairly major round of updating. Last night I had a Koha that worked. This morning the apache log tells me that "File does note exist: /htdocs".
07:07 mason           ive got 5mins custard :)
07:05 custard         any body vaguely alert (and feeling up to some apache/koha interaction troubleshooting) ?
06:56 mason           encoding - something, hmmmm....
03:13 elpiddaketan    i got some errors regarding encoding,, something
03:12 elpiddaketan    i have problem in importing my data to koha, how will i do that, the records are from Readerware originally, i have the zip file of it
03:12 elpiddaketan    i have problem in impoerting my data to koha, how will i do that, the records are from Readerware originally, i have the zip file of it
03:11 elpiddaketan    hi everyone
02:47 chris_n^2       I think that the ability to patent a relatively abstract idea is not good
02:47 chris           definitely
02:47 chris_n^2       I tend to agree with the thought that a copyright is more appropriate for software
02:46 chris_n^2       I was just reading an article on the difference between patent and copyright with regard to software
02:38 thd             The weaker the software business has been in a country historically, the more likely that the country is to have opposition to software patents which are mostly supported by incumbent industries which have managed to use overly broad patents to.protect themselves from new competitors..
02:26 thd             chris_n^2: The presumption is in favour of the patent holder which is often against the defendant if that is how IRS courts work.
02:26 chris_n^2       heh: "What my firm has been seeing is that claims can be made allowable by inserting “computer implemented” into claims, sometimes even in the preamble.  It does not seem that is what the Federal Circuit intended, but it is what is happening at least in some cases."
02:24 * chris_n^2     wonders if those courts are akin to irs courts :-(
02:23 thd             chris_n^2: We have special patent courts where 'expert' judges adjudicate patent cases.  Of course, such judges have an obvious bias.
02:22 chris_n^2       it never ceases to amaze me how judges seem to know everything about everything
02:21 thd             We need some havoc in that domain but that is why the court will probably not make a broad ruling.
02:21 chris           particularly ironic given that m$ just lost a patent case over xml
02:21 chris           nzoss and others have challenged it
02:21 chris           they tried patenting story documents as xml here
02:21 chris_n^2       s/ew/few/
02:21 chris_n^2       "...ew really expected just how far reaching the decision would be and that it would call into question thousands of software patents granted over the last 10 to 15 years.:
02:21 chris           yes, microsoft
02:20 chris_n^2       if the Supreme Court upholds that ruling it appears that it could work havoc in the software industry
02:20 thd             chris: does NZ have patent trolls?
02:19 thd             The long term low but real possibility of a lawsuit over a software patents is the best reason not to have any long term Koha foundation in the US.
02:15 chris           or strengthened by another ruling?
02:14 chris_n^2       interesting
02:14 thd             The hope is that the scope of patents over software in the US may be weakened by some possible ruling.
02:13 thd             http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_re_Bilski
02:12 thd             Bilski
02:12 chris_n^2       thd: which?
02:11 thd             There is a case before the US Supreme Court which may change things in the US.
02:11 chris           so it may all change
02:11 chris           there is a bill going through parliament about patents now
02:10 chris           not explicitly, doesnt explicity reject them either
02:10 thd             chris: NZ still recognises software patents, does it not?
02:09 * chris_n^2     has been dragged kicking and screaming up the PDF standard learning curve :-P
02:05 chris           awesome
02:00 chris_n^2       hopefully in time for our 3.2 release
02:00 chris_n^2       cool, PDF::Reuse maintainer says he'll include several enhancements I made in his next release latter next month
00:24 pianohacker     ... and actually hit the funny little X