Time Nick Message
01:49 chris_n2 @make coffee
01:49 munin` chris_n2: downloading the Perl source
01:49 chris_n2 hrmmm
01:54 chris_n2 my $perfect_cup = $coffee->make(grind => 'Panama Las Flores de Volcan', pot => 'french press', steep_time => 5, additives=> [cream, sugar, whipping cream]);
01:55 chris_n2 munin: take note
03:24 schuster Silence... Oh well nobody here or they are all deep in PERL code!
03:30 Amit heya chris, brendan, richard
03:30 brendan heya amit
03:31 Amit brendan: coming long weekend
03:32 brendan where are you going amit
03:33 chris_n2 schuster: deep.... more like glub...glub... in it ;-)
03:33 chris_n2 hi Amit, brendan
03:34 brendan hi chris_n2
03:34 Amit hi chris_n2
03:36 Amit brendan: right now not any planning three day off sat, sun, mon
03:36 brendan enjoy
03:36 brendan get some good veggie indian food
03:37 Amit hmm
03:38 Amit breandan: i like only rajma rice
04:29 chris_n2 g'night
04:57 brendan good night all
05:34 Jo good night all.
06:03 Ropuch Morning
06:27 Amit hi ropuch
06:50 kf chris: here?
06:56 nicomo hello everyone
06:56 Amit heya nicomo, kf
06:56 nicomo chris around?
06:56 nicomo Hi Amit
07:24 Ropuch Hm, I have trouble translating "mini-print". Can someone explain to me what is it?
07:24 |Lupin| hello
07:25 Ropuch Hello
07:25 Ropuch Is it just a "miniature graphic"?
07:26 Ropuch |Lupin|: do you know what is a "mini-print"? Small graphic or something else?
07:29 |Lupin| Ropuch: never heard about it before, sorry
07:29 Ropuch I'm finishing opac translation and have some never-heard-of words ;>
07:30 snail Ropuch: you mean a thumbnail?
07:31 snail Ropuch: we need some context for the translation
07:34 Ropuch snail: i need context as well
07:35 Ropuch It's 1009 entry in 3.00.02 opac .po file
07:36 Ropuch Nevermind, I've make my guess but marked it fuzzy
07:36 Ropuch s/make/made
07:39 kf Ropuch: context is a problem, but its much more difficult in staff with UNIMARC labels to translate
07:40 |Lupin| guten tag kf
07:40 kf guten morgen Lupin
07:40 Ropuch kf: I won't argue, staff is next
07:41 Ropuch ;>
07:41 kf I think I saw a patch to make xslt-files translatable in po-files - but cant find it right now
07:42 kf Ropuch: still fighting with a lot of typos and translation mistakes because of missing context, but I think its a process, getting slowly better with time after the initial translation
07:42 paul_p guten morgen germany. Good morning UK, Bonjour France !
07:42 Ropuch Hola! ;>
07:43 kf bonjour paul
07:43 Ropuch kf: main problem is the only other koha instalation i know of in Poland is a 2.2.x fork and don't use .po files
07:43 magnusenger God morgen!
07:45 kf chris seems to be asleep and I m working on my presentation on tuesday, someone here fit in koha history?
07:46 snail kf: it's friday night here in .nz, all the people who know the history are drowning their sorrows
07:47 kf huh.
07:56 nahuel hi all
07:56 Ropuch hello, nahuel
08:06 kf ok, question: we want to add a new index to index control-numbers in subfield $w which is used for linking between titles
08:08 kf we added our new index to bib1.att, record.abs and properties.ccl and it works with yaz but not in opac
08:08 kf somebody an idea about this? or a hint where we can look?
08:08 kf we use ICU indexing, if this is important
08:10 hdl_laptop kf you should launch zebra server with more verbose options so that in koha-zebradeamon logs, you can have the RPN query.
08:11 hdl_laptop This would be the way I would do to diagnose the problem
08:11 |Lupin| kf: did you look whether there is a syspref that corresponds to your needs you have to activate ?
08:12 kf Lupin: I think there are no configuration option for zebra indexing in the sysprefs
08:12 kf we tried adding the fields to the marc framework
08:12 kf ah, something to add: the fields got indexed, because kw is working, but our name for the new index seems not to be known by koha
08:14 kf hdl_laptop: thx for the suggestion, I will tell my colleague who is working on the problem to try this out
08:14 hdl_laptop have you added that index to ccl.properties myindex 1=myindex ?
08:16 |Lupin| kf: can't help -- overwhelmed, sorry
08:16 kf hdl_laptop: give me a second, I will open the file
08:23 kf we hava indexname 1=1049 (z39.50 attribute for this index)
08:34 kf ok, perhaps I found our mistake... thx hdl_laptop and |Lupin|
08:47 |Lupin| nahuel: around ?
08:47 nahuel Of course
08:49 |Lupin| nahuel: hi :)
08:50 nahuel hi
08:50 nahuel but it's cofee time
08:50 |Lupin| nahuel: I went through the code that parses the isbd syspref, yesterday, and find it a bit difficult to understand. Could you explain me a bit the way it works ? just intuitively ?
08:50 |Lupin| nahuel: np, take your coffee, we can discuss this afterwards
08:51 nahuel It's a bugged code :p Some user found this week a bug inside
08:51 nahuel But the big feature
08:51 nahuel It parse line by line
08:51 nahuel and replace [XXXcc] by the field XXX / subfield cc
08:51 |Lupin| right
08:51 nahuel The more difficult to understand
08:51 |Lupin| and each line has several fields separated by | ?
08:52 nahuel Ouch, scuse it's isbd
08:52 nahuel :p
08:52 nahuel I'm wrong
08:52 nahuel this is for items summary
08:52 nahuel well cofee time, and I'll explain you
08:52 |Lupin| nahuel: ok !
08:52 |Lupin| nahuel: will be interested in the item summary thing, too
09:09 nahuel So
09:09 nahuel In french/private it's simpler
09:28 |Lupin| yeah but less useful :)
09:28 |Lupin| maybe I shold write doc one day for that once I have understood it.
09:30 chris evening
09:30 chris kf: sorry i was having lunch, then drinks with some of the ex players from the nz rugby team, then more drinks
09:31 chris do you still have a history question?
09:31 kf yes
09:31 kf some of them
09:32 chris i will try to answer them ... but disclaimer, i have been drinking beer since 12pm
09:32 kf I will keep this in mind :)
09:33 kf ok, I m working on a shoert slide about the history of koha for my presentation
09:33 kf 1. date work on koha begin, so that I can mention the birthday (which is also the day our patches got accepted : )
09:34 kf I think I got this right from other presentations and koha history and your article "how hard can it be"
09:35 kf i think marc support and zebra were great milestones for the project?
09:35 chris yep
09:35 kf were they sponsored by libraries?
09:35 kf and was 3.0.0 the first release with zebra support?
09:35 chris yes marc was sponsored by nelsonville public library
09:35 chris yes, it was the first release
09:35 kf was zebra also sponsored?
09:36 chris but crawford county had been running from the dev_week branch for a while
09:36 chris partially, by crawford county
09:36 chris jan 5 2000 is another important
09:36 chris thats the day koha was turned on
09:37 kf ok, I will add this
09:37 kf I also have 21.06.2000 which I think was day it was released as open source?
09:38 chris that was the day we announced it
09:39 kf ok. perhaps just reformulate it then
09:41 kf something else that should always be mentioned in context of history or community?
09:42 kf I wanted to say that these features were sponsored to show how it can work - you see a good product you want to use and sponsor missing features
09:43 chris yep
09:43 chris hmmm
09:44 chris i cant think of any features that werent sponsored actually
09:44 kf ok, this was a difficult question
09:44 chris ie everything in koha, came from a request from a library
09:44 kf ok, good point
09:44 chris sometimes people code it for free
09:45 chris but the ideas always come from users
09:46 Ropuch Hello, chris
09:47 kf so I can state that zebra was partially sponsort by crawford county library?
09:49 Ropuch I've finished translating polish opac with 7 fuzzy entries
09:50 snail1 Ropuch: well done
09:52 chris excellent
09:53 chris kf: yep
09:53 kf chris: thx! you are always a great help and the history.txt is really great and was sure a lot of work
09:54 chris :)
09:54 kf interesting to see the dates for biblibre and liblime too
09:55 kf and found friedrich zur hellen - a German I know
09:57 chris yep, paul has been around koha for a long time and a major reason liblime exists
09:57 chris somewhere along the way joshua forgot this
09:58 snail1 bye all. bedtime for me.
09:58 chris paul did the MARC support, which allowed NPL (who joshua worked for) to run koha
10:02 kf ah
10:02 kf history goes strange ways sometimes
10:02 chris yes
10:09 kf last question: new acq in 3.2 - sponsored by Bibliothèque/Mediathèque San Ouest Provence ?
10:09 chris i think so, biblibre could answer that
10:11 hdl_laptop kf yes
10:11 kf thx hdl_laptop
10:11 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: ILSDI modules doesnot comes out when checking out master branch.
10:12 hdl_laptop Is the branch merged ?
10:12 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: not yet - i'll do that
10:13 hdl_laptop But I saw a merge done on the repo with biblibre-sopac
10:13 hdl_laptop This is why I asked.
10:14 paul_p kf: Nelsonville sponsored support for MARC in 2.0, and I did the job. It appeared then that my 100% mySQL structure was not correct for large databases. Thus zebra in 3.0 (in 2.2, perfs started to decrease after 2 or 300 000 biblios)
10:14 paul_p 'morning gmcharlt
10:15 gmcharlt hi paul_p
10:15 paul_p (very early wake up !)
10:15 chris paul_p: i watched the captains run of the nz and australian teams today (they play in wellington tomorrow)
10:15 gmcharlt not that early, only 6:15 here - I'm practically sleeping in
10:15 chris and had lunch with former all blacks
10:16 gmcharlt hdl_laptop: you may have see a merge of master into biblibre-sopac, part of keeping the biblibre-sopac branch up to date
10:16 kf paul_p: thx :)
10:18 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: Then When will all those branches be merged with one an other ?
10:18 gmcharlt some over this weekend
10:18 gmcharlt also, do you have patches for 3.2 for me to pull from the coderun this week?
10:24 kf paul_p: was it MARC21 and UNIMARC from the beginning? (2.0)
10:24 paul_p kf: yep. But biblios only in 2.0, and biblios+authorities in 2.2
10:24 |Lupin| lunch time
10:36 kf paul_p, chris, hdl_laptop: thx for history lesson :) community slide is next ;)
10:57 kf lunch time
11:58 Amit hi galen, jwagner
11:58 gmcharlt hi Amit
11:59 jwagner Hi Amit and gmcharlt
12:05 |Lupin| hi Jane
12:06 jwagner Hi |Lupin|
12:06 |Lupin| question for you all, pls
12:07 |Lupin| for our library I'd need to modify the add-item feature so that the user has the ability to enter file names (for files located on her disk)
12:07 |Lupin| when the item is added, I'd need o insert code to upload these files to a file server
12:07 |Lupin| and then only modify the MARC record if the files could be successfully loaded
12:08 |Lupin| I'm wondering how to do that
12:08 hdl_laptop you would have to build a plugin for that.
12:08 hdl_laptop would prompt for dl
12:08 |Lupin| (the file names do not need to be stored in the MARC record...
12:08 hdl_laptop then dl
12:08 hdl_laptop and return the filename in order to store that.
12:09 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: hmm... the problem with this solution is hat I guess it would require some javascript (wold it?) so that I could not even test it by myself...
12:09 hdl_laptop mmm yes
12:10 hdl_laptop but plugins are js only
12:10 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: I assume that even with the plugin approach the feature wold imply modificatons in the code of Koha ?
12:10 hdl_laptop No.
12:11 hdl_laptop Just adding a new plugin
12:11 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ok...
12:11 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: but I thought plugins are necessarily bound to one MARC field... is that true ?
12:11 hdl_laptop user choice on which MARC field to bind.
12:12 hdl_laptop For instance unimarc_4xx.pl you can use on any 4xx subfield
12:12 hdl_laptop same for all.
12:12 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: the problem is that in a way this plugin is not bound to any specific MARC field
12:12 |Lupin| or perhaps to unimarc 995
12:12 hdl_laptop No.
12:13 hdl_laptop it is just the usage and the name which makes you think that.
12:13 |Lupin| ok
12:13 hdl_laptop linking other subfield than 210c to unimarc_210c plugin would be nonesense (in terms of librarian experience)
12:14 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: right...
12:15 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: but to which field would the plugin have to be link in the present case ?
12:15 hdl_laptop the subfield you want to store the filename into
12:16 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: no I don't want to store the filename in a subfield...
12:17 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: the only think I'm planning to store in the MARC biblio is that there are files available in a given format, ant then the ISBD view would include a link on a separate page giving the details for a format...
12:17 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: but perhaps it would make things easier to just store the filenames in the MARC subfields...
12:21 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: after having filled-in item data, the user does Ia submit, I presume. So my idea was to change the page where the user arrives when submitting, so that the page presents a form to enter files, and then when the files are successfully, redirect to the original page...
12:22 chris_n g'morning #koha
12:22 |Lupin| am I clear ? :)
12:22 paul_p hi chris_n
12:22 Nate good morning ladies and gents!
12:22 |Lupin| hi Nate
12:22 |Lupin| hi chris_n
12:22 Nate hello hello
12:23 chris_n hi Nate
12:23 Nate hey chris_n
12:23 hdl_laptop |Lupin|: workflow changes are hard to maintain with current infrastructure.
12:24 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: ok.
12:25 * chris_n thinks it is funny that he asked for an enhancement request he should have known was already there :-P
12:25 chris_n must need a memory upgrade
12:26 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: so you see no other way than plugin ? The situation looks rather complex to me not knowing js and not being able to test by myself in good conditions...
12:27 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: any advice ?
12:27 |Lupin| (or others)
12:27 chris_n off to change the gpu fan in my laptop, bbiab
12:28 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: perhaps I could replace the whole addbiblio script by my own ?
12:29 hdl_laptop |Lupin|: this would be a HELL to maintain for you.
12:29 hdl_laptop (or anyone else when you leave)
12:30 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: hmm this part is so specific...
12:30 hdl_laptop Adding an uri link to an item or a subfield doesnot look so terribly specific
12:31 |Lupin| hdl_laptop: it's not that part... it's the fact that the file has to be puloaded to the server where Koha is and then ransferred to another fileserver where it will stay permanently
12:33 jwagner framework question for folks -- I'm dealing with really crappy MARC data, nonexistant fixed fields, etc. I've had to turn off the "mandatory" settings for 005 and 008 until such time as they can do some cleanup. However, the 245a is still set as mandatory. The records do have a 245 subfield a, so why do I get an error when trying to save one? "Field 245 is mandatory, at least one of its subfields must be filled." I checked, and subfield a is the onl
12:36 jdavidb Mornin', schuster. :)
12:41 paul_p good morning USA !
12:42 jdavidb Good morning, paul! :)
12:43 schuster Morning Paul - Just saw you on my computer as I'm digitizing the Database structures video from KohaCon. I hope to be able to go home tonight with several videos to upload to the internet archive.
12:44 schuster Oh and Mornin' to ya buckaroo - jdavidb
12:45 * jdavidb is about ready to quit admitting he is a Texan, based on the news from down there--and the way it is viewed up here.
12:47 jwagner Does that mean you're abandoning the Texas embassy?
12:48 jdavidb It may be time. Maybe we oughta let TX secede. Give 'em a year or two, so that all the wierdos and nutjobs elsewhere in the country will move there, *then* chop it off.
12:50 jwagner Only if we can send Virginia with it. I'm SO glad I finally got moved out of Virginia & don't have to deal with VA politics any more. Of course, we still get all the election commercials on TV, but at least I can now ignore them in good conscience.
12:50 jdavidb I finally quit reading the paper online from the town I moved out of...every time I did, I just had to roll my eyes a lot at them...so I quit.
12:51 jdavidb Hey, schuster: Got a question for you...offhand, do you know what percentage of PISD's high school teachers have masters or doctorate degrees?
12:51 jdavidb classroom teachers, mind, not out-of-class specialists.
12:53 schuster Not off hand, but I suspect a very high percentage as the district offers Masters in Education to classroom teachers - you get a passing grade the district pays. North Texas actually uses the Sockwell Center on weekends and evenings to provide the classes.
12:54 jdavidb In Abilene, it was a low enough number that Lindsey had no such teachers. Here, four out of seven do, and everyone seems to think that's pretty normal.
12:54 schuster Dr Otto the super - teachs Doctoral classes too but I don't believe there are many in those classes - 8=10.
12:55 jdavidb The principal at Lindsey's school is an EdD. Nice guy, too, and the kids like him a lot.
12:55 schuster jdavidb I think that shows when you are in a more metro area - higher paying jobs attract and require higher levels of degrees. Dallas ISD actually pays more for doctorals, I don't believe Plano does.
12:55 schuster You might get an additional $500 - but the district wouldn't pay you to get it.
12:56 schuster That highly qualified business.
12:56 jdavidb *nod* The school funding is very, very different here, and counties==districts. Montgomery County MD is one district all by itself.
12:56 jdavidb And unlike TX ISDs, there is a bit of tie-in between the county govt and the schools.
12:56 schuster and you were talking about WEST Texas... I had a great slam here, but decides not to use it.
12:57 schuster That's why we are called ISD - independant... Plano actually cross' two counties, and 5 cities.
12:57 jdavidb Another things, and I *like* this: tax money doesn't pay for extracurriculars, very much at all. Travel for contests and such are paid-for a la carte, or through a foundation. The parents association operates a 501c3 foundation for those purposes.
12:58 jdavidb Since our high school's foundation is particularly prosperous, they also have been known, in recent years, to chip in to send teachers to conferences and continuing-ed above and beyond what MCPS pays for.
13:00 jdavidb But you don't have a choir program that can't get music, while a football program has gold-plated gear. If students wanna do those activities, they help fund-raise, and take some ownership of the program. At the high school level, particularly, I think that's a great idea.
13:01 jdavidb (Slam West Texas all you want. I will admit that I came from a Congressional district that elected a "birther.")
13:07 hdl_laptop jwagner: I think this error was fixed bu nahuel on 3.0.x
13:07 nahuel hdl_laptop, which one ?
13:07 hdl_laptop cataloguing
13:07 schuster Plano ISD has a very large Educational Foundation for that as well - and here students pay to go places. They must have been RobinHood reapers where here in Plano we are the payers... $140 million 2 years ago.
13:08 schuster OK back to work before I get into trouble!
13:08 * jdavidb chuckles.
13:08 hdl_laptop when field marked mandatory, then mistakenly expects all the subfields to be filled
13:13 rhcl_out North to Nebraska...Project Pioneer
13:13 jwagner nahuel, hdl_laptop, the system is at 3.01.00.058 -- is the fix later than that?
13:14 hdl_laptop I would have to dive into patches.
13:14 nahuel jwagner, iirc it's later
13:15 jwagner I think so -- I just unchecked the mandatory setting on the 245 field, but left the subfield a as mandatory, & it then let me save the same record. Thanks. At least I wasn't totally losing my mind :-)
13:18 nahuel :p
13:21 kf somebody knows what a 'Textbook management type module?' does?
13:21 kf schuster: still here? :)
13:26 * chris_n 's laptop breaths easier now
13:27 schuster Yes...
13:28 schuster When a student registers for classes - they would be issued the books for those classes that they are taking.
13:28 schuster By law public schools are required to provide textbooks for students - in CA they actually have to PROVE that a student has said books for said classes.
13:29 schuster There are lots of things that go into it - some items that are "assigned out" are consumable workbooks so you don't want to barcode them, but you need to issue them.
13:30 schuster Teacher editions where there are 7 parts but it is pretty hard to barcode manipulative math pieces.
13:30 schuster Just a whole lot that I don't get the whole picture. I did see that LibLime was working on "barcodeless" checkout.
13:35 kf ah
13:35 kf schuster: thx for the explanation!
13:35 chris_n schuster: I think the textbook enh is an excellent idea
13:36 chris_n our academy uses some text books which are out of print and it would be nice to track them that way
13:41 jdavidb The hairiest part, maybe, is the consumable-item bit. Need to keep a record (for the whole academic year, presumably) that we gave Joe Math Teacher the workbook for his class, but at the end of the year, keep a record that we did it, and not the item record itself.
13:46 chris_n maybe similar to discarding a book
13:46 jdavidb Possibly. Could use item types to differentiate them, then automate the process somehow.
13:47 jdavidb It would be like discarding a copy; unless the textbook changed for the subsequent year, you'd wanna keep the bib.
13:49 jdavidb Aside from the thorny problem of "The MARC record can't hold all those items," then, maybe it wouldn't be too hard. A couple of mass-manipulation scripts, and some specialized report.
14:01 schuster Not to mention some MASS adding of barcodes - 50 at the same time sequential - specified duedates for item types - anything with this item type would be due Oct 15th end of 6 weeks, anything with item type TX2 would be due Dec 18th anything with itemtype TXA would be due May 18 2010 etc...
14:01 schuster Hmmm I see a use for that last part now - off to the bug database.
14:10 owen A very serious bug has come to light here at NPL, I wonder if anyone else is experiencing it too
14:10 owen When we check in items, the "holding branch" information is not being updated
14:11 owen So an item checked in at the Nelsonville branch shows that its current location is the Athens branch
14:11 owen That means our holds queue reports are incorrect, and no one knows where to look for something they find in the catalog
14:11 jdavidb That's a nasty behavior, owen...
14:11 owen Yup
14:12 schuster Yep we saw that too - related to when you check in a lost item it wouldn't update the status to available as well.
14:12 schuster runs to check and see if we got a patch to fix both of those issues.
14:12 owen schuster: I was aware of that issue, but I thought that was limited to status changes
14:14 schuster still have this issue even with the patch for lost.
14:15 owen schuster: can you clarify?
14:16 schuster no matter what you check in - it doesn't put it in transit it leaves it there at the location that was set. I think this bug was introduced to the .32 release.
14:16 schuster 3.1.00032 that is.
14:17 schuster Before when we checked in a lost item it wouldn't update the status from Lost to Available. I fussed because we were using lost status 2 for items from the processing center so that when they checked them in at the school they would go available.
14:17 owen Sheesh, that means we've been living with this bug since June? I can't believe no one here has noticed until now :(
14:18 schuster I believe LL did a patch to fix that for us, but I didn't pursue the location change issue at that time.
14:18 owen It's going to take a long time (or a system-wide inventory) to sort this out...assuming the bug can be fixed.
14:18 schuster We went from .18 to .32 in August and that is when I noticed it.
14:18 owen Our last update (according to LibLime's update messages) was in June, and we're at .32 as well.
14:18 schuster System wide inventory - yes, but you need some type of report of the scanned items that they are at the wrong location.
14:19 schuster Inventory is on my wish list for enhancement development.
14:19 schuster LOTS of inventory development.
14:19 schuster But I had other pressing items that I needed first.
14:20 schuster Sorry to deliver the bad new, just didn't have a chance to log it as a bug yet.
14:20 owen Yeah, for the imaginary future when sponsoring something will actually get it added to your system.
14:20 schuster not going there right now...;)
14:20 owen Hey, at least it'll be added to MY system! :D
14:20 Wizzyrea_ hi peps
14:20 schuster smacks owen virtually through the terminal...
14:20 * owen deserved that
14:20 jdavidb Hi, Wizzyrea_
14:21 schuster peps - or peeps
14:21 Wizzyrea_ peppy peeps
14:21 Wizzyrea_ peps
14:21 Wizzyrea_ ;)
14:21 owen Wizzyrea_: I'm curious whether you're affected by the bug schuster and I have just been chatting about
14:21 schuster Wizzyrea may not be aware of owens last comments... Do we need to send you some marshmellows?
14:21 gmcharlt just so long as it's not Pepys
14:21 gmcharlt digging him up would be gross
14:21 Wizzyrea_ umm
14:21 Wizzyrea_ which bug?
14:21 schuster no matter what you check in - it doesn't put it in transit it leaves it there at the location that was set. I think this bug was introduced to the .32 release.
14:22 Wizzyrea_ i believe we WERE affected by that
14:22 Wizzyrea_ but...
14:22 owen So check in a Branch A item at Branch B, and it still says it's being held at Branch A.
14:22 Wizzyrea_ I think maybe atz fixed it before he left?
14:22 Wizzyrea_ or maybe ryan?
14:22 Wizzyrea_ but it may only be on our system
14:22 Wizzyrea_ :(
14:23 schuster Ah yes the "only on our system patch"...
14:23 schuster Wonders how to get that as well... After making the stink about the Lost patch for 2 weeks.
14:23 Wizzyrea_ well... perhaps a reminder on the "focus on support" is in order
14:23 schuster Wizzyrea - would you verify you have it working correctly as the "lost" patch didn't fix it.
14:23 Wizzyrea_ </snark>
14:24 schuster I heard that all the way down here.
14:24 Wizzyrea_ lemme check, but that's one we'd hear about right away if it were broken, I don't think it si
14:24 Wizzyrea_ is*
14:25 * Wizzyrea_ is looking back through her email...
14:25 schuster On a side note - regarding software Foundations - did people read Vicki's post? - Software Freedom Conservancy's [3] offer to serve?
14:26 Wizzyrea_ bug 3288 or bug 3270
14:26 munin` 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3288 normal, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Transit prompt not immediately triggered after hold is canceled
14:26 munin` 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3270 major, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Cancelling a hold request after transfer initiated orphans item
14:26 schuster schuster needs to get to other things or it will be 4 pm and non of the videos will get posted over the weekend from KohaCon09
14:27 Wizzyrea_ either of those schuster/
14:27 Wizzyrea_ ?
14:27 chris_n schuster: I saw that
14:27 chris_n looks like another interesting alternative
14:27 schuster But wizzyrea - those deal specifically with holds - these are general - checkin branch A doesn't put it in transit back to branch B where it is the home location.
14:28 Wizzyrea_ i'm wondering if it's the same behavior though, just not in context of holds
14:28 Wizzyrea_ let me look more
14:28 schuster Do you have a book in your office you can checkin that belongs to another location?
14:28 schuster fastest way to tell. :0
14:29 Wizzyrea_ ok I just checked, we have this problem right now
14:29 Wizzyrea_ yes, we are affected
14:30 Wizzyrea_ bug 3536
14:30 munin` 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3536 enhancement, P5, ---, gmcharlt@gmail.com, NEW, Checked In item requiring transfer does not consistently trigger transfer prompt
14:31 schuster Sees Wizzyrea running down the hallway screaming...
14:32 Wizzyrea_ lol
14:32 schuster owen already did it.
14:32 Wizzyrea_ HA
14:32 Wizzyrea_ nah, i'm philosophical about it
14:32 Wizzyrea_ lots of people looking, it'll get fixed soon.
14:32 Wizzyrea_ oh wait
14:32 * Wizzyrea_ runs down the hallway screaming
14:33 schuster Thanks needed to confirm the screaming.
14:33 owen Don't worry Wizzyrea_, the 3.4 update will be just around the corner, and you'll get your fix then.
14:34 schuster Oh and I'll get my development!
14:34 schuster Sorry couldn't resist.
14:34 Wizzyrea_ and there will be ponieartys at everybody's birthday p
14:34 Wizzyrea_ birthday party*
14:34 Wizzyrea_ ponies at everybody's birthday party
14:34 Wizzyrea_ sheesh
14:35 schuster You got the ponies?
14:35 Wizzyrea_ nah, our vendor has the ponies, remember?
14:35 gmcharlt anybody got the source code to the ponies?
14:35 Wizzyrea_ git pull pony
14:35 Wizzyrea_ wow, that was funny on multiple levels
14:36 * Wizzyrea_ snickers in the corner
14:37 Wizzyrea_ sorry gmcharlt, it looks like that's proprietary
14:37 Wizzyrea_ proprietary ponies
14:37 Wizzyrea_ now I've heard everything
14:38 gmcharlt sadly, with DNA patents, that could literally be the case
14:39 Wizzyrea_ frowny
14:39 Wizzyrea_ ponies are meant to be free!
14:42 owen kf around?
14:46 chris_n hehe
14:47 kf kf: phone
14:48 * |Lupin| thinks kf meant
14:48 |Lupin| owen: phone
14:49 schuster I interpreted that as KF was on the phone..
14:50 owen yeah, I don't think kf was telling kf that kf is on the phone.
14:50 kf owen: lupin is right, on the phone, will ping you after that?
14:50 owen Yup :)
14:50 owen Certainly. Affirmative.
14:50 Wizzyrea_ you just made him type all that out. *sigh*
14:50 owen Her.
14:51 Wizzyrea_ her
14:51 Wizzyrea_ sorry
14:51 owen Geeze Wizzyrea_, always with the sexism.
14:51 owen Just because you're a big manly programmer-dude.
14:51 * Wizzyrea_ tries to think of something witty to say without denigrating herself... nope, not possible
14:51 Wizzyrea_ oh ya
14:51 Wizzyrea_ with my nice girly name
14:51 owen :)
14:51 Wizzyrea_ I have an identity crisis
14:53 owen http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/bookselling/amazon_forces_changes_at_librarything_136125.asp?c=rss
14:53 owen If that's true, it means our default link to BookFinder.com conflicts with Amazon's terms of use.
14:57 chris_n amazon-- # for coercion
14:57 owen (e) You will not, without our express prior written approval requested via this link , use any Product Advertising Content on or in connection with any site or application designed or intended for use with a mobile phone or other handheld device.
14:57 owen Does that mean we can't design a mobile version of the OPAC which includes Amazon covers?
14:58 Wizzyrea_ owen I believe that is what they say
14:58 Wizzyrea_ mean
14:59 Wizzyrea_ of course that's what they say... I believe that is the intent. My brain is not quite yet engaged
15:00 owen "(q) If you display Product Advertising Content consisting of text on your application, you will include the following disclaimer in plain view to end-users of your application: "CERTAIN CONTENT THAT APPEARS [IN THIS APPLICATION or ON THIS SITE, as applicable] COMES FROM AMAZON SERVICES LLC. THIS CONTENT IS PROVIDED ‘AS IS’ AND IS SUBJECT TO CHANGE OR REMOVAL AT ANY TIME."
15:00 owen We're not doing that either...
15:06 Wizzyrea_ ok we had a harebrained idea
15:08 Wizzyrea_ we are thinking about the system preferences... it would be cool if the sysprefs were tagged (potentially multiply tagged) with what kind of library would use it
15:08 Wizzyrea_ so something like what schuster proposed, static item type due dates
15:08 gmcharlt Wizzyrea_: indeed
15:08 Wizzyrea_ would be tagged academic
15:08 gmcharlt there's a lot of metadata we could apply to sysprefs
15:08 gmcharlt including whether syspref is used in staff, OPAC, or both
15:09 Wizzyrea_ yes
15:09 Wizzyrea_ so you could concieveably search prefs based on these (potentially user defined?) tags
15:10 Wizzyrea_ "I only want to see preferences for the Intranet that have to do with CSS
15:10 Wizzyrea_ tag intranet, css
15:11 Wizzyrea_ <list>
15:11 Wizzyrea_ squee!
15:15 Wizzyrea_ ph, hi
15:17 collum gmcharlt: I have tweaked compact.xsl so that showmarc.pl?viewas=card displays xhtml instead of html
15:17 collum my question is bug 2651
15:17 munin` 04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2651 major, P3, ---, jmf@liblime.com, NEW, showmarc tries (and fails) to use a non-existant OPAC css file from the STAFF side
15:17 collum the nonexistent css file
15:18 collum should I remove the link in compact.xsl (being lazy) or should I create a placeholder css file?
15:18 owen collum: The display looks as expected? If so then I say remove the link
15:18 gmcharlt I agree with owen
15:19 collum Will do. I'll take the easy approach.
15:28 pianohacker Hi, liz
15:32 |Lupin| hey Jesse
15:32 pianohacker Hi, |Lupin|
15:41 kf owen: sorry, very long phone call - discussing my slided for tuesday
15:41 chris_n hi pianohacker
15:42 pianohacker Hi, chris_n
15:42 chris_n Wizzyrea_: we could catalog sysprefs using marc and then have zebra index them... ;-)
15:43 owen kf, nothing that important, I was just reading through the IRC log and saw you were asking about Koha history
15:43 kf owen: yes, for my presentation
15:43 pianohacker Oh, but handcoding search engines in Perl is so much fun
15:43 kf owen: something you want to add? .)
15:43 kf :)
15:44 owen Particularly the history of the addition of zebra to Koha. I don't think you can point to any one sponsor for that. So many people donated their time on that project
15:44 owen It was an interesting case of, "This really needs to be done to help Koha, so everyone should help."
15:44 Wizzyrea_ >.< you could use the existing tagging engine
15:44 owen At least that was my impression.
15:45 owen I'm not trying to take credit away from anyone, but to point out that it came about in an interesting way
15:47 kf owen: thx, will change to many libraries then :)
15:47 kf just wanted to add sponsorship to tell people that libraries have influence
15:48 kf need to talk to my boss now, crazy day here today
16:17 owen stephaniechase, come back!
16:21 Ropuch When I'm sending a patch, should I include it in mail body or attach it/
16:24 owen Ropuch: If you're not using git, then I think attaching it is good
16:25 Ropuch Well, I'm using git and try to follow http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:git_usage
16:25 Ropuch but I don't have smptp configured
16:26 Ropuch s/smptp/smtp
16:26 owen Yeah, so if git send-email won't work then I think attach it.
16:26 Ropuch Ok, I'll try
16:31 Ropuch Should include bug no in commit msg/
16:31 owen Yes
16:31 pianohacker Ropuch: Yes
17:07 kf time to go home - bye #koha!
18:17 schuster Off to visit with the executive director...
18:36 chris morning
18:36 owen Hi chris
18:36 pianohacker Good morning
18:36 pianohacker brb
18:38 owen items.onloan gets updated with, what--the check-out date, on check-out?
18:38 jwagner Morning, chris
18:42 owen Is anyone working on a temporary records feature?
18:44 chris owen: onloan gets the date_due
18:44 owen Thanks chris
18:45 chris what are temporary records used for?
18:45 jwagner owen, in what sense of temporary? We have a "fast adds" feature for things that don't have records, but they're meant to be fleshed out properly later.
18:45 jwagner The fast add is just so someone can create a skeleton record to check it out.
18:46 owen Our previous system had a temp record feature where you could add a minimal record on the fly at checkout, then the record would disappear on check-in.
18:46 jwagner Maybe similar to Unicorn's ephemeral one? I never worked with that so I don't remember specifics.
18:47 owen My preference would be to be able to create a temp record via the cataloging interface so that one could put a hold on it
18:47 owen ...but then when the last item got checked in the bib would self-destruct
18:48 jwagner Like a new framework with limited fields, for example? I've been working on a couple of those for one site, e.g. an ILL record. Only the bare minimum of fields and everything on one tab. They don't self-destruct, though.
18:48 owen Exactly, an ILL record. That's the very thing I want to self-destruct.
18:49 owen My staff doesn't seem to be capable of deleting them after the items are returned.
18:49 jwagner Would be a nifty feature. Maybe a special itype of EPHEMERAL or something, and everything with that itype auto-deletes both the item & title at checkin.
18:49 owen So of course I'm looking for a technological problem for a staff issue.
18:49 owen problem->solution
18:49 jwagner Creating the stripped down workform was a bear, but I did use a lot of authorized values to pre-fill fields & limit entries.
18:51 chris owen: do you want it to delete straight away, or would it be ok to prompt on check-in ?
18:52 owen I guess you'd probably have to do the prompt, just in case you checked in by mistake or something.
18:53 owen I'm not sure how you'd handle statistics for that kind of transaction...
18:53 jwagner Our fast add feature adds a staff note in bright red letters saying something like "route to cataloging" & that shows when the item is checked in. Maybe adapt that idea & make it say "ILL item -- delete from catalog" or something?
18:53 owen You wouldn't be able to track down itype/ccode for all those items that disappeared.
18:54 jwagner What kind of barcode do you use for ILLs? Maybe a ILLnnnnn barcode, & run stats for all those that match ILL*? Don't know if the barcode lives on in the stats logs. I think it does, after the item is deleted, doesn't it?
18:56 chris lemme check
18:56 * owen doesn't think so
18:56 jwagner Or probably safer to use an item type that's only limited to this purpose, then have checkin look for anything with that itype.
18:57 chris nope
18:57 chris we store itemnumber, not barcode in the statistics table
18:57 jwagner So no stats possible. Oh well.
18:58 Wizzyrea_ ooh, jwagner, don't tell a librarian "no stats possible, oh well"
18:58 Wizzyrea_ because that might incite them to violence
18:58 Wizzyrea_ at least it would in our system
18:58 Wizzyrea_ :)
18:59 jwagner I've known a few of those librarians myself. Time to duck!
19:00 chris well it is if you store the deleted item in the deleted_items table
19:00 chris then you can join to that via itemnumber
19:00 chris an still get your stats
19:00 owen True
19:01 owen Koha needs better means for regular staff to access info about deleted stuff in general.
19:01 owen It'd be useful to be able to scan a deleted barcode and request info about the deleted record.
19:03 chris we used to have that, it was called catalogue maintenance
19:03 chris you could undelete too
19:03 chris it'll come back, HLT are sponsoring it
19:04 owen that's good news
19:04 owen That feature got lost so long ago I never really saw it working.
19:04 chris yeah
19:05 chris that blog post from karen schneider is a good read
19:05 chris http://freerangelibrarian.com/2009/09/18/it-takes-a-village-koha-and-open-source-leadership/
19:05 jwagner Will it be something that you have to specially ask to search? It annoys me now that if you're under Cataloging, the search automatically includes all the reservoir items.
19:06 chris its a special search, not by default
19:06 chris probably will live under tools
19:06 chris maybe
19:06 owen chris: This whole "Libraries are getting the stick when if comes to future Koha direction" really is a red herring
19:07 jdavidb chris: Thanks for the link...that is a good read.
19:09 chris yeah, it is indeed owen
19:09 chris hm i thought i had some screen shots of hte old catalogue maintenance here http://photos.bigballofwax.co.nz/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=12
19:09 chris but nope
19:12 chris owen: maybe its true for libraries who chose not to participate ....
19:13 owen ...in which case they're grabbing that stick all on their own.
19:14 jdavidb I was *soooo* tempted to join Twitter just over that, so I could reply, "the poll is about the foundation, not about the software, knucklehead!" But I resisted, and meditated instead.
19:15 chris owen: agree entirely
19:16 chris last night when chatting with kf, i was struggling to find a feature that wasnt developed in direct response to a libraries wishes, zebra was probably the most indirect one, but even that came out of a desire for better search by librarians
19:17 cait :)
19:17 owen Zebra is a good example of a feature that couldn't have been directly requested by librarians because they wouldn't have known what to ask for.
19:18 chris *nod*, better searching was asked for though
19:18 jdavidb Howdy, nicomo. Thanks for your note on facebook; I replied just now.
19:20 Wizzyrea_ well they knew to ask for "better search"
19:20 Wizzyrea_ who better to leave those decisions to than developers?
19:20 Wizzyrea_ accomplishing the goal and setting the goal are two different activities
19:22 chris i think we should have formed a committee to form a subcommittee then seek carnegie funding, write specs for 3 years...........
19:23 * Wizzyrea_ starts to cry
19:25 chris there's no crying on fridays :)
19:26 Wizzyrea_ saturday for you!
19:26 chris yep
19:26 chris getting bunk beds delivered today
19:26 Wizzyrea_ seeing that description of committees and subcommittees makes me feel like a giant weight or a shadow is hovering over me
19:28 * jdavidb nominates Wizzyrea_ to the Committee on Committees. (I was appalled when I found out that the Southern Baptist Convention has such a construct.)
19:29 Wizzyrea_ nooooo
19:31 jdavidb Maybe we need one for the Foundation!
19:32 owen That's where we'll put troublemakers
19:34 * jdavidb nominates Ben Ide as Chair for Life. Wizzy will be the parliamentarian, with the job of spy-to-the-people-who-do-the-real-work.
19:40 * chris_n thinks that there is a certain element of independence that contributes directly to the survival of successful FOSS like Koha; committees and librarian overseership, etc. would probably pour water on that fire imho
19:44 Wizzyrea_ ok, stick with me here: one of the reasons librarians like open source is that we are "in control" of how things can work
19:44 chris_n micromanagement--
19:44 Wizzyrea_ i.e. the software can conform to the workflow instead of the other way around
19:44 chris too_much_governance--
19:45 Wizzyrea_ I think there is the *percecption* of certain folks that just because another library does it a different way, that's not "listening to librarians"
19:45 Wizzyrea_ when in fact
19:45 Wizzyrea_ it's exactly how it should be... for the commissioning library
19:45 chris yep
19:45 chris_n in Beekeeping it is often said: 5 beekeepers = 10 opinions
19:45 chris_n bbiab
19:45 owen Wizzyrea_: Good point
19:46 nicomo well, I'm going to micromanage my week-end starting just now
19:46 nicomo see you all on monday at the latest
19:46 nicomo :-)
19:46 owen And if that's the case, we've got a serious communication problem going on because no one is actually *saying* that
19:46 chris hehe have a good weekend
19:46 Wizzyrea_ ...well I suppose I should say it
19:46 owen Wizzyrea_: That's not what I mean
19:47 owen I mean, the people who think that Koha isn't librarian-driven aren't explaining that they think so because things don't work the way they think it should
19:47 Wizzyrea_ AHH
19:47 Wizzyrea_ I misunderstood sorry
19:48 snail I don't suppose anyone has experience cataloguing multi-format electronic full-text resources?
19:48 * chris runs
19:48 Wizzyrea_ wowie there's the question of the day
19:48 owen I had a painful conversation once with a librarian from another system who dripped with contempt for Koha because it didn't work the way she thought it should.
19:48 * cait is right behind chris
19:49 snail i'm trying to translate "don't put 'click here' in the 710 field" into cataloguer-speak and clearly failing
19:49 Wizzyrea_ I think it's the promise of open source that ultimately we can have it work pretty close to the way librarians want it to in most institutions
19:50 Wizzyrea_ but i'm an optimist
19:50 Wizzyrea_ (and if it doesn't work how you think it should, hire someone to help you make it so)
19:51 Wizzyrea_ that said, no system is a fit for every library
19:54 pianohackr|work Based on my reading of some of the opinions coming out, I'm more than a bit afraid some will think a "librarian-led foundation" will mean "we can order the development of this feature and it will happen"
19:55 owen Right, or, "if enough of us vote for this feature someone will do it for us for free"
19:55 pianohackr|work owen: Exactly
19:55 snail pianohackr|work: there are always some who are looking for a free ride
19:55 pianohackr|work I think software based on the needs of its users is excellent, don't get me wrong
19:57 chris i thnk a lot of the time people get "what it should do" and "how it should do it" mixed up
19:57 cait good night #koha
19:57 pianohackr|work Good night
19:57 chris night cait
19:58 cait night chris
19:58 chris and focus not on what the goal is, but rather on the way the system they were used to before tried to get to that goal
19:58 pianohackr|work Horizon users seem especially bad about that
19:59 pianohackr|work Some sort of stockholm's syndrome
19:59 chris its not confined to libraries either
19:59 chris hmm this is my 15th year doing software development
19:59 chris its a rare client how can explain what they want to achieve
20:00 chris how=who
20:00 chris that vital 'why' bit
20:01 pianohackr|work Yeah. About 99% percent of the time, when a librarian at my library asks for a given feature, I have to ask "why do you want this"
20:01 chris *nod*
20:01 pianohackr|work usually means less work for me and a better feature for them (when I do it right)
20:01 Wizzyrea_ do you get answers?
20:01 chris usually
20:01 chris it takes a while tho
20:01 chris and pianohackr|work is right, a much better feature results
20:02 chris cos you actually attempt to solve the problem
20:02 Wizzyrea_ a similar and parallel question is "what are you trying to do"
20:02 chris yep
20:02 Wizzyrea_ because maybe their workflow is the problem, not the software
20:02 chris exacterly
20:02 Wizzyrea_ the people, not the tech
20:02 pianohackr|work Yup. Sometimes the best solutions involve not a single line of code change
20:03 Wizzyrea_ I get into that argument a lot >.>
20:03 pianohackr|work Or just a config change
20:03 chris id hate koha to copy crappy workflows, cos thats what people are used to
20:03 Wizzyrea_ YES. OMG.
20:03 Wizzyrea_ Sirsi did X, and it sucked... can we make it work that way?
20:03 chris hehe
20:03 Wizzyrea_ ./cry
20:03 pianohackr|work Wizzyrea_: Gah, no kidding. Some of the processes the people here went through with Horizon...
20:04 pianohackr|work At least I'm good friends with the cataloger, who is an awesome dude. I've heard horror stories about catalogers
20:04 Wizzyrea_ i'm usually like... erm... you know that you can skip 10 steps if you just do it Y way, right?
20:04 pianohackr|work Wizzyrea_: And people don't always react well to that
20:04 Wizzyrea_ and they're like... wha?
20:04 pianohackr|work You gotta be veeeery polite
20:04 Wizzyrea_ hehe yea
20:05 Wizzyrea_ since we've been on koha though, this mentality of rote workflow has gotten a little more flexible
20:06 Wizzyrea_ since it's always improving
20:06 chris_n improving is the key with workflow
20:06 chris yeah
20:07 chris i am still a big fan of incremental improvements
20:07 chris vs wholesale changes
20:07 pianohackr|work Wizzyrea_: I've noticed that too. Knowing that things _can_ change often makes people happy even if it takes me forever to get to them
20:07 chris_n *nod*
20:07 pianohackr|work chris: yes, those are usually easier for the user to adapt to and you to support
20:08 Wizzyrea_ we emphasize that change (usually) = improvement, and there are things that are weird, and sometimes they are perks, and sometimes they are quirks
20:08 chris_n and open non-presupposed communication is key to improvement
20:09 Wizzyrea_ (this discussion is partially why I like products with plugin frameworks)
20:09 chris yep
20:09 Wizzyrea_ don't like it? get a different one. But don't migrate out of your product, that's just dumb
20:09 chris heh, i like thd's post to the list
20:10 Wizzyrea_ yep. very... clever.
20:10 pie just going back to "What are you trying to do?", that question helps with an XY Problem : http://mywiki.wooledge.org/XyProblem
20:10 pie they're funny :)
20:10 pie (and good morning all) :)
20:11 chris_n thd++
20:14 Wizzyrea_ pie++ for a friday laugh
20:14 pianohackr|work Where's the talk of "committees and subcommittees" that was mentioned earlier?
20:14 pianohackr|work pie: I've lost good chunks of my sanity to XY problems ;(
20:15 owen We're just imagining how bad it might get if librarians were in charge of all Koha development to the exclusion of developers
20:15 chris hey pie :)
20:15 pie yeah, it's amazing how you realise how many times you've seen it, but not recognised it as such
20:15 pie hi Wizzyrea_, pianohackr|work and chris :)
20:15 pianohackr|work Hi pie
20:16 Wizzyrea_ owen: <shudder>
20:16 Wizzyrea_ that seems an extreme in the other direction that really makes me feel icky.
20:17 Wizzyrea_ what would be super best
20:17 chris_n hi pie
20:17 Wizzyrea_ would be tech capable librarians who interface with the staff talking/hashing things out with developers.
20:17 chris_n lol pie that's a good one
20:18 Wizzyrea_ that way you (might) reduce the amount of nonsense
20:18 Wizzyrea_ (that's kind of how I see my role, among other things)
20:18 owen Wizzyrea_: right, and I don't think it's uncommon
20:18 chris_n ahhh.... librarian abstraction code
20:18 * owen considers himself to be in that position as well
20:19 chris_n or is it a developer API?
20:19 owen That's why it's ridiculous to say that Koha development is only driven by developers. It ignores those of us who are librarian *and* developer
20:19 pianohackr|work owen: Right, it's a continuum
20:20 Wizzyrea_ yes, to me that just indicates (amusingly) that you are jealous of the people who can make your desires reality, because you yourself can't do it
20:20 Wizzyrea_ you = the people who want librarian driven development
20:20 Wizzyrea_ it's like, cripes.
20:21 Wizzyrea_ never mind. I'm making myself tired.
20:21 * Wizzyrea_ has never been much for FUD
20:22 * chris_n thinks the channel topic should be updated to reflect the next important date in Koha's life
20:22 pianohackr|work Next dev meeting?
20:22 chris_n heh
20:22 pianohackr|work chris_n: the channel's unlocked; you can change it if you want to (I believe)
20:22 chris_n I was thinking more of the due date for foundation, etc., whatever, voe
20:22 pianohackr|work Right, there's that
20:23 chris_n vote even
20:23 chris_n where is munin @spellcheck?
20:23 chris yep anyone can change the topic
20:24 chris_n is there actually a second meeting scheduled for 2 weeks out?
20:25 chris_n or is nengard just to setup the final poll at the 2 week mark?
20:25 chris_n or...
20:27 Wizzyrea_ two more tweets to tweet 666
20:27 chris yeah im not sure, i think nicole sets up poll, then 2 weeks after that meet again?
20:28 chris_n wiki says "Further research candidate organizations to answer open questions (due in 2 weeks)"
20:28 chris_n then poll
20:28 chris ahh
20:28 chris_n should we throw http://conservancy.softwarefreedom.org/ into the mix?
20:29 chris yes
20:29 chris_n I sort of like what I've read of them so far
20:29 chris_n quote: "....the Conservancy does not intervene in the project's development other than to provide administrative assistance. "
20:30 chris yep
20:31 chris_n it appears very hands-off
20:31 chris my fear is that people are imagining the foundation to be very hands on
20:31 chris micro managery like you said
20:31 chris_n I think governance is going to be the sticky issue; finding the right balance may be challenging
20:31 chris i like the idea of HLT or SPI or the conservancy
20:32 chris which play a more custodial role
20:32 chris lookng after community property
20:32 chris_n HLT still has tops with me simply because I believe that they will always have the best interest of koha in mind... since it is their offspring so-to-speak
20:32 chris ditto
20:33 chris_n but the conservancy comes a close second
20:33 chris yep
20:34 chris i thnk people imagining the foundation deciding what goes in a release
20:34 chris are imagining even
20:37 chris_n adding the patroncard feature back is quickly turning into a major chunk of code :-P
20:38 chris_n if it was turning quickly rather than quickly turning I'd be happier
20:38 chris hehe
20:41 * chris_n reads the list of ils compatibility for a brodart library label and notices they have overlooked Koha
20:41 chris_n such presumption
20:45 chris_n time for pizza
20:46 chris :)
21:05 pianohackr|work When what determines that is what is submitted before the feature freeze
21:05 pianohackr|work Hrmph, replied to something half an hour old
21:05 pianohackr|work nvm
21:08 chris hehe
21:30 rhcl back from Nebraska - Project Pioneer
22:15 chris_n^2 too many chris's :-P
22:16 pianohackr|work \lim_{chris_n \to \infty} = ?
22:20 chris_n^2 hehe
22:38 * chris_n^2 goes back to math class
22:39 chris_n^2 interesting: http://www.softwarefreedom.org/ offers legal services to FOSS projects "pro bono"
23:12 pianohackr|work Good night, #koha