Time  Nick            Message
00:38 brendan         heya owen -- still at work?
00:38 owen            No, just popping in for the heck of it
00:38 brendan         guess that is good
00:38 brendan         how's all the little ones
00:39 owen            All sleeping quietly :)
00:39 brendan         :)
01:21 baseballfreak47 hello will koha work with yellow dog linux?
01:21 chris           that a definite maybe
01:21 chris           i havent tried, so don't know for sure
01:22 baseballfreak47 okay thanks
01:22 baseballfreak47 if not do you know of any versions of linux that will work on a power mac g4?
01:24 chris           hmmmm maybe debian has a powerpc port lemme look
01:25 chris           http://penguinppc.org/about/intro.php#hardware
01:25 chris           http://penguinppc.org/mac/
01:26 chris           http://penguinppc.org/about/distributions.php
01:26 chris           so there are a few to choose from
01:29 baseballfreak47 oka thanks (sorry about the delay i went to go get a snack WERE OUT OF BAGELS!!!!
01:30 chris           hehe
01:53 chris           mmm bagels
02:46 pianohacker     GOod night
03:21 Amit            hi chris, brendan
03:21 Amit            good morning #koha
03:22 brendan         hey amit
07:05 slef            http://koha.org/support/pay.html is 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable
07:05 slef            http://koha.org/ same
07:05 slef            anyone here about to kick it?
07:13 chris           lol
07:13 chris           you are joking arent you?
07:13 chris           its back now for me
07:30 slef            back now for me.  The <title> tag on the homepage is poor, though ;-)
07:30 slef            joking about which?
07:33 chris           there being anyone on the channel who could poke it :)
07:47 Amit_Gupta      hi kf
07:52 kf              hi Amit, chris slef
07:57 slef            hi kf
07:58 slef            ok, I think life doesn't fit into time available today :-/
07:59 Amit_Gupta      hi slef ;)
08:02 nahuel          hi community !
08:03 Amit_Gupta      hi nahuel
08:36 kf              chris: can you add me as translator for German in 3.2?
08:38 chris           i thought i did already
08:39 chris           oh on the about page?
08:41 chris           ill send a patch tomorrow
09:03 kf              thx chris!
09:49 chris           http://stats.workbuffer.org/ircstats/
10:12 greenmang0      @wunder mumbai
10:12 munin           greenmang0: The current temperature in Mumbai, India is 30.0�C (3:10 PM IST on August 20, 2009). Conditions: Haze. Humidity: 74%. Dew Point: 25.0�C. Pressure: 29.74 in 1007 hPa (Steady).
10:19 kf              @wunder Konstanz
10:19 munin           kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 27.0�C (12:00 PM CEST on August 20, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 18.0�C. Pressure: 30.11 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
10:25 WillemVdV       Hi, I'm starting to get used to some Koha stuff - now able to import after using MarcEdit. Can anyone tell me whether it's possible to import DELETE requests?
10:42 kf              chris: just saw your patch - thx again1
10:44 kf              hi Willem, I dont think it's possible, but perhaps one of the developers has an idea how to do or implement this
10:44 gmcharlt        WillemVdV: i.e., load bib records with a Leader/05 = 'd' to signal that they should be removed from the database - no, not currently possible, but wouldn't be hard to add, either
11:48 WillemVdV       Thanx kf and gmcharlt, will continue to remove records manually.
12:03 chris_n         g'morning
12:07 Ropuch          morning
12:12 chris_n         chris about?
12:47 * chris_n       greets owen
12:47 * owen          is digging chris's IRC stats http://stats.workbuffer.org/ircstats/
12:49 jdavidb         Couple of good conversations, owen, and you'll catch up to hdl.  :)
12:49 owen            It's going to take a while for anyone to catch up with kados, but his title is defenseless
12:50 jdavidb         Heh.   yeah, the "Last seen"...I hadn't realized it'd been that long.
13:16 WillemVdV       e.g. book or journal logo). Explanation will be appreciated.
13:18 Ropuch          um.. the first part of your message is missing
13:19 WillemVdV       Can someone explain the field 008 to me? The manual says it should have 14 bytes, but in my koha lists they're a lot longer, eg. =008  891013c19769999sa\fx\\\\\\\\0\\\\0eng\d and they seem to influence how the biblio appears in search results, e.g. journal or book logo. Help please.
13:19 Ropuch          I'm sure there was something before: "..ge.g. book"
13:21 owen            WillemVdV: Are you working with 008 in the MARC editor? addbiblio.pl?
13:25 WillemVdV       I don't know about addbiblio.pl, but yes, I use the MARC editor. I've found that a journal only produces the journal logo in the search result if I changed the 008 field to the one copied above, but I'd like to understand the various bits and pieces. I also have single articles to display and they shouldn't come up with the book or the journal logo.
13:26 owen            If you're editing a record in Koha, look for a small link to the right of the 008 entry field, "..."
13:27 owen            Click that and it will pop up an entry form with all the elements labeled
13:28 owen            http://koha.org/documentation/manual/3.0/cataloging/dctn875x_66d8k5prhb.jpg/image_large
13:28 owen            That shows an example for 000, but it's the same idea.
13:31 WillemVdV       Great - that explains it all. Thanks a lot.
13:44 jdavidb         owen, I've got a puzzler here, and you're Teh Jquery Gawd.
13:44 jdavidb         Got a sec?
13:44 owen            You bet. No pressure.
13:45 jdavidb         I've got two instances of koha running, with same code...one has slightly-older data, but not by much.  But on the *newer* one, the sort buttons on opac-user disappear for the checked out and overdue tables...
13:45 jdavidb         The same user, on the older data, works fine.
13:46 owen            Is javascript otherwise running properly on the page? Cart button working, etc.?
13:46 jdavidb         It seems like something in the table is causing the tablesorter to disappear, maybe.
13:46 jdavidb         yep, cart button seems to be functional.
13:48 jdavidb         I've diffed the entire opac-tmpl/prog/en tree between the two, as well as kohaclone/opac, just to check, and there are no diffs.
13:49 owen            Sorry, no idea what's going on!
13:49 jdavidb         Hrm.  Thanks, though.
13:49 owen            The data in the tables is different? Different checkouts in each example?
13:50 owen            I wonder if it's possible for something in the data itself to make the tablesorter choke?
13:50 jdavidb         Checkouts are the same, although many are overdue in the older data.  Now, on the older data, she has a hold outstanding, but on the newer, she doesn't...could that be?...  (testing)
13:51 jdavidb         yes!  if the user has no holds, the tablesorters break for Checkout and Overdue.
13:52 jdavidb         This page has a *lot* of tinkering for this site...I betcha there's something squirrely in the <tr> </tr> structure for the holds table.
13:53 owen            Yeah, bad markup would definitely cause problems
13:53 owen            A trip to the validator should have been one of our first steps
13:53 jdavidb         I suppose, then, that the tablesorter expects a nice clean, properly-marked-up table....that's what I need to check on, then.
13:54 owen            Valid markup, and both a <thead> and a <tbody>
13:54 jdavidb         Okay!   See, you were more help than you thought you'd be.  :)
14:07 ccurry          Can someone direct me to documentation for importing serials holdings? The individual bibliographic records for the serials imported, but the records don't show subscription information; I assume Koha uses a different 9xx field than our old ILS. I can't find documentation for this and found only 1 (unanswered) list post about this issue.
14:08 owen            ccurry: I suspect such documentation doesn't exist
14:08 owen            It must be a fairly obscure operation for you to get no response.
14:08 kf              I dont think you cant import serials holdings atm - you can import items in 952 and perhaps put your subscription info in local fields in the title
14:09 kf              ccurry: we dont have subscription info but I still have to find out where to put the holdings of the library without adding items and without adding a subscription in serials
14:10 kf              information like 2003 - current without issues 2003.5 etc.
14:14 ccurry          kf: thanks.  We do have this summary information in the MARC records in a note; I was hoping there was some automated way to populate the serials module...it's kind of surprising that there isn't.  Some large libraries that have implemented Koha (with thousands of serials) must have wanted to do this...
14:19 owen            Serials management is still an underdeveloped feature, IMO.
14:20 hdl             kf: if you are running UNIMARC you have subfields of a biblio for that
14:23 ccurry          owen & kf: Thanks for the insight.  We're pretty set on koha....so, if my users insist on being able to import periodicals info, maybe we'll commission Liblime to develop something.
14:23 owen            ccurry: The rest of the world would be grateful if you could insist to Liblime that such development was shared with the Koha community.
14:24 ccurry          owen: of course. wouldn't have it any other way.
14:24 owen            I have to say it because some *would* have it another way.  :(
14:35 wizzyrea_       yea, some would. Bleh.
14:35 jdavidb         Hi, wizzyrea_!
14:35 wizzyrea_       (FWIW, we insist that our code goes to the project, and we're willing to pay for integration, inclusion)
14:36 wizzyrea_       (because apparently that's an issue? no idea.)
14:36 owen            The notion that one would have to pay specifically for integration is absurd.
14:36 owen            it is to any vendor's advantage to integrate their code into the main branch. it save them the trouble of maintaining differing branches.
14:38 jdavidb         It is absurd, owen.  Now, we've got one customer that wants a feature that I *really hope* that gmcharlt rejects.  It's a bad, bad idea, but that's what they wanted, so we've done it.  And we'll have to maintain it.  But we *will* throw it over the wall for everyone else to scream about, too.
14:39 wizzyrea_       yea, it's silly, but apparently it costs a lot to integrate it? Lots of extra time? Idk, in my mind you'd just charge for those hours as part of your quote (transparently or not)
14:39 wizzyrea_       "it costs X and we'll put it in the project"
14:40 gmcharlt        jdavidb: yeah, if it's the feature (aka security hole) you're thinking of, jwagner and I had already talked about submitting it but leaving it to languish in contrib-land
14:40 jdavidb         wizzy:  No, it doesn't.  It's not like you're writing that feature on a clean page.  you're writing on top of HEAD, if you've got any sense at all.  Whole new modules?  Maybe.  Adding features in the current framework?  No.
14:40 jdavidb         gmcharlt:  That's the one.
14:40 wizzyrea_       jdavidb are you going to say in the patch notes "this is a bad idea, but here it is" lol
14:40 owen            If you're coding the feature, you're coding it to work with Koha, right? Unless you're coding it using lots of site-specific, hard-coded stuff. Does the issue arise because some new development isn't written to be generic?
14:41 wizzyrea_       I don't have that information.
14:41 jdavidb         wizzy:  I'm thinking we'll put it out there straight, and see how many people scream in horror.
14:41 wizzyrea_       (but signs point to yes)
14:42 jdavidb         We aren't charging extra for integration--we're writing with the patch in mind from line 1.
14:42 wizzyrea_       yea, you just calculate that time in from the start, without really thinking about it
14:43 wizzyrea_       (fwiw, I'm not saying it's right, just what they tell me)
14:45 wizzyrea_       heh, but the people who would benefit from our conversations on the topic aren't here to hear them, and probably don't care.
14:46 jdavidb         Such hubris was and is bad for the big closed-source vendors, as SirsiDynix is rapidly discovering.
14:47 jdavidb         ...who's to say that it's not dangerous for a smaller vendor, too?
14:48 kf              hdl: running marc21
14:59 hdl             kf :
14:59 hdl             (16:56:09) gsf: @marc 310
14:59 hdl             (16:56:09) zoia: gsf: The current stated publication frequency of either an item or an update to an item. Dates are included when the beginning date of the current frequency is not the same as the beginning date of publication. These data are related to coded data in field 008/18 (Frequency) and 008/19 (Regularity). [a,b,6,8]
14:59 hdl             (16:57:21) gsf: hdl: http://www.oclc.org/bibformats/en/3xx/310.shtm is that what you meant?
14:59 hdl             (16:58:34) jtgorman: hdl: there's also the 863/853 fields...
14:59 hdl             (16:59:09) jtgorman: hdl: oh, and 866
14:59 hdl             from #code4lib
15:07 kf              hdl: is 310 not the publication pattern of the serial itself? What I need is a field to put the information which issues are available in the library
15:08 kf              hdl: we have this information in holdings data - but as I cant import holdings to koha that way I thought about using a local 9xx field in title
15:08 kf              ah
15:09 kf              thx hdl, I will look at these fields
15:12 jwagner         hdl, since you're online, a question for you.  Bug 3203 shows as assigned to you.  Is that something you're actively working on, or is it a bugzilla automatic assignment?
15:12 munin           04Bug http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3203 normal, P5, ---, henridamien@koha-fr.org, NEW, Some Letters template variables are not available to certain notice types
15:14 hdl             looks like automatic assignment
15:14 hdl             Is this something urgent for you ?
15:15 hdl             Do you want the hat ?
15:16 gmcharlt        jwagner: one thing to keep in mind - a bug isn't truly assigned unless its status is 'assigned'
15:16 jwagner         One of my people has asked about it.  I haven't investigated yet, don't know if it's something I can do.  But I didn't want to spend the time looking at it if you were already active.
15:17 jwagner         I'll take a look & see if I can do it.  If so, I'll assign it to myself.  Thanks.
15:37 pianohacker     Good morning
15:37 rhcl_away       morning
15:39 joetho          itsabeautifuldayintheneighborhood
15:39 pianohacker     mr_rogers++
15:39 chris_n         hey pianohacker
15:39 chris_n         and rhcl
15:39 pianohacker     Hi, chris_n
15:39 chris_n         and mr_rogers
15:39 pianohacker     Hi, joetho, rhcl
15:40 pianohacker     Hehe
15:40 chris_n         err... joetho
15:40 * chris_n       is bored stiff writing tests for the new labels code :'(
15:40 pianohacker     Ah, testcases
15:41 pianohacker     Almost as bad as documentation
15:41 chris_n         unfortunately that's next on the list
15:42 pianohacker     Ehhh
16:14 owen            tests++
16:14 owen            chris_n++ for writing them
16:16 gmcharlt        tests++
16:16 gmcharlt        chris_n++
16:16 gmcharlt        documentation++
16:16 owen            FUD-- >:(
16:17 chris           guten morgen
16:19 chris_n         hi chris
16:21 owen            chris, surely it's only technically morning for you?
16:22 chris           well its still the night
16:24 kf              guten morgen chris
16:24 kf              @wunder konstanz
16:24 munin           kf: The current temperature in Konstanz, Germany is 33.0�C (6:00 PM CEST on August 20, 2009). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 30%. Dew Point: 18.0�C. Pressure: 29.99 in 1016 hPa (Falling).
16:33 pianohacker     @wunder wellington, nz
16:33 munin           pianohacker: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 5.0�C (4:00 AM NZST on August 21, 2009). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 4.0�C. Windchill: 5.0�C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
16:34 chris           yeah i really should go back to sleep
16:34 chris           but my brain hurts now
16:37 * chris_n       offers chris some homemade salsa and chips to sooth his sore brain
16:40 joetho          cheer up, Owen
16:41 joetho          cheer up, Owen
16:41 * pianohacker   looks at joetho strangely
16:42 joetho          joetho leers at pianohacker
16:44 * chris_n       hates running out of chips before running out of salsa >:-(
16:44 pianohacker     chris_n: related: http://xkcd.com/140/
16:45 chris_n         hehe
16:56 jdavidb         xkcd++
16:56 pianohacker     Indeed!
18:25 |Lupin|         hello there !
18:25 pianohacker     Hi
18:26 jdavidb         Hi. |Lupin|. :)
18:27 gmcharlt        hi |Lupin|
18:28 |Lupin|         hello galen, pianohacker & jdavidb
18:28 |Lupin|         hope you are all well ?
18:28 pianohacker     Yes, though busy
18:28 gmcharlt        ditto
18:29 jdavidb         Me three.  :)
18:34 |Lupin|         :)
18:35 |Lupin|         that's one of our main problems, I'd day
18:35 |Lupin|         s/d/s/
19:33 * chris_n       dances a jig on his desk
19:34 chris_n         my catalogers heartily approve of the work flow in the new labels code
19:34 chris_n         happy catalogers++
19:35 pianohacker     Cool
19:40 |Lupin|         I'm wondering
19:40 |Lupin|         when is the next general project meeting ?
19:40 chris           ahh there was an email
19:40 chris           lemme find it
19:41 gmcharlt        2 September - http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes09sep02
19:41 chris           beat me
19:41 |Lupin|         I'm in no-mail mode since I'm supposed to be on vacations
19:42 |Lupin|         gmcharlt: chis: thanks a lot !
19:42 |Lupin|         I hope I can attend this one !
19:45 |Lupin|         gmcharlt: are you gonna be the moderator for this one ?
19:45 gmcharlt        |Lupin|: yes
19:46 |Lupin|         gmcharlt: I find this a very good news, thanks for doing it
19:46 |Lupin|         gmcharlt: how re things going with your new job ? you have done the change, haven't you ?
19:47 gmcharlt        |Lupin|: I have indeed.  Things are going well, though I'm very very busy
19:48 chris           atz++
19:48 |Lupin|         gmcharlt: I can imagine, especially if you are as involved in the new project than you are in koha, and I imagine you are even more involved
19:48 chris           answering list emails
19:49 |Lupin|         chris: ok, thanks for the clarificaiton :)
19:53 chris           ok time to catch my bus
19:53 chris           cyers in 40 mins or so, if ppl are still around
19:54 gmcharlt        quick, time for everybody to switch nicks around before chris comes back!
19:54 chris_n         heh
19:55 * chris_n       promises to keep up with POD the next time he does a big re-write... :-(
20:00 |Lupin|         :-)
20:00 |Lupin|         ok everybody, was nice to chat wth you a bit. time to go to bed now. bye ! till soon !
20:00 pananohacker    BYe
20:00 |Lupin|         full time come back next monday
20:01 |Lupin|         pie: bye :)
20:17 hdl             chris ?
20:17 gmcharlt        hdl: on bus still, most likely
20:18 * hdl           wrote tests for Budgets
20:20 hdl             but I  have some issues with selenium and yahoo buttons
20:21 pianohacker     What's the problem?
20:25 hdl             when recording a selenium scenario and then playing it it doesnot work.
20:27 hdl             Try to record creation of a new record based on the second or third framework. and it fails to select this
20:27 hdl             can't find a way to do it
20:31 joetho          atz
20:33 chris_n         I've had all the POD and test fun I can stand for one day...
20:34 * chris_n       heads out for a break... ttyl
20:35 richard         hiyas
20:35 pianohacker     Hello
20:36 richard         hi pianohacker
20:38 chris           back
20:38 chris           hdl: you still about?
20:39 hdl             yes
20:39 hdl             have you had success with Selenium and Yahoo/ggl like buttons.
20:39 hdl             Is there a way to make selection work ?
20:40 chris           hmm, i dont know actually, the I will ask the QA people when they get into work
20:42 chris           i will email you their answer
20:54 hdl             it is for instance when you select some framework on creation of a biblio,
20:54 hdl             same for members
20:54 hdl             same for all the buttons where you have +
20:55 hdl             It is rather confusing.
20:55 hdl             Thanks chris
20:55 hdl             I have pushed some updates on reconciliation
20:56 hdl             chris: In order to automatize web-based tests you wrote or used some external tools can you remind me which it was ?
20:59 hdl             time to go to bed.
20:59 hdl             Thanks
21:00 hdl             http://www.eifl.net/cps/sections/services/eifl-foss/ils/case-studies
21:19 chris           ahh www::mechanize
21:19 chris           but now ive missed him
21:19 pianohacker     chris: @ later tell ?
21:19 chris           good thinking batman
21:20 pianohacker     Heh
21:20 chris           @later tell hdl i used www::mechanize
21:20 munin           chris: The operation succeeded.
21:20 pianohacker     Off to library, bbl
21:44 rhcl            he haw, we just received a 15k technology grant
21:45 chris           awesome :-)
21:46 rhcl            yea, first time I've requested money from this program for mostly replacement equipment like monitors and UPSs and surge protectors.
21:46 chris           all good things
21:47 rhcl            one bigger ticket item was a replacement Bluesocket wireless controller.
23:35 pianohacker     back
23:35 chris           wb
23:36 pianohacker     Switching to VPN, you might experience temporary interruptions of pianohacker
23:36 chris           heh