Time Nick Message 16:43 SirStan chris++ 20:27 chris morning 20:38 ebegin hi all! 20:47 eiro http://search.cpan.org/dist/indirect/lib/indirect.pm 20:47 eiro hello guys 20:48 eiro it would be cool to use this pragma everywhere in koha, tracking all the "new CGI" syntax 20:48 eiro 'night all :) 20:52 chris oh good idea eiro 20:52 chris hiya lori 20:52 LBA howdy, happy father's day to all you daddies 20:54 chris not fathers day here yet, not until september, i wonder if i can get 2 20:54 chris :) 20:55 LBA go for it! 20:55 chris one for each child maybe 20:55 chris :) 20:57 richard hi 20:58 ebegin Did anyone noticed that the koha-zebra-ctl.sh and koha-zebraqueuequeue-ctl.sh was moved for 3.00.02? They are now located in misc/bin (was in bin before) 20:59 ebegin s/noticed/notice s/was/were/ 21:00 ebegin Unfortunatly, I think the install script was not modified accordingly 21:11 chris ahh no i didnt notice that 21:11 chris you might want to drop Henri Damien a note 21:40 hdl_laptop thx ebegin for noticing. 21:40 hdl_laptop I thought it was thus already for 3.0.1 22:13 chris back 22:13 chris that took longer than i planned 22:20 chris i need more coffee before i answer more mailing list questions i think 22:20 chris collum: thanks for answering nelson as well 22:21 collum You expressed what I was thinking far more eloquently. 23:52 SirStan What list was this eloquent reply? 23:53 SirStan ah 00:13 SirStan chris: opac search (via nytprof): http://vtwireless.com/nytprof/ 00:14 SirStan the times there are 3x normal.. 00:20 chris theres something odd going on 00:21 chris print $query->header; 00:21 chris should not take 2 seconds 00:21 chris (thats using CGI.pm) one of the most widely used modules 03:28 Amit hi chris, brendan, mason 03:28 Amit morning #koha 03:28 Amit hi richard 03:28 richard hola amit 03:29 mason hiya amit, good morning to you too 03:30 mason and atz and richard too ;) 03:32 Amit hi atz 03:34 richard hi mason 03:51 brendan heya amit -- richard and mason too :) 03:51 Amit heya brendan 03:53 chris hi brendan and amit 03:54 brendan good evening chris -- 03:54 brendan Almost time for me to go to bed. Too much sun today 03:54 SirStan mmm was a beautiful day up here. 03:55 SirStan before i roll my own -- anyone have a small script that I can scan isbn, look up in my catalog, find a record, and then scna in a barcode? 03:55 SirStan So I can roll through linking 9k records to barcodes 03:55 Amit hi sirstan 03:55 SirStan hai Amit. 03:57 chris not me SirStan 03:58 SirStan no worries 03:59 SirStan chris: that nytprof was running 3x slower than realtime.. 03:59 SirStan it executed in 2 seconds -- but the nytprof said 6 seconds. 03:59 SirStan so any timings are 300% elevated 03:59 chris stills seems very out that a print header line would take 2seconds 04:00 chris all that line is doing is print "Content type:html\n\n"; 04:00 SirStan ah. 04:00 SirStan my bad. 04:00 SirStan I didnt pipe it to devnull 04:00 chris ahh 04:00 SirStan actually that linepritns EVERYTHING 04:00 SirStan so it took a long time to print to a buffer 04:00 SirStan and dispaly 04:01 chris right 04:01 chris well that subroutine prints everything 04:01 SirStan mhm 04:01 chris print $query->header 04:01 SirStan , $html 04:01 chris ah right you are 04:01 chris in that case, not too bad 04:02 chris there is a patch already sent for master 04:02 chris for authorised values 04:02 SirStan nice! 04:02 SirStan i didnt see it 04:02 SirStan did it hit devel? 04:03 chris http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=commitdiff;h=5dd3a9c157ef091729dbea78db9ace8c21b63338 04:03 chris koha-patches 04:03 chris might be a list worth subscribing too all patches get sent there, and then accepted into the repo 04:03 SirStan Fredric's post? 04:03 SirStan from jun14th? 04:03 chris galen reworked it 04:04 chris but yep 04:04 chris http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=summary 04:05 SirStan nice. 04:05 SirStan i get the patch emails. 04:05 SirStan i even subbmited a few ~6mos ago 04:05 chris ah yep, you are in the history :) 04:05 SirStan but didnt get a warm fully feeling from that :D. 04:06 SirStan ill keep my changes local 04:06 chris oh? 04:08 chris as far i can see they were all accepted 04:08 SirStan yea.. they were 04:09 SirStan some of the resulting discussion was BLAR WHY DID YOU DO THAT. 04:09 SirStan on minor changes. 04:09 chris i wouldnt let that stop you 04:10 chris if it was blar, and then not accepted that would be a different story 04:17 mason i can honestly say that all the critique ive had about my commits have been valid and appreciated 04:22 pianohacker1 $SirStan->{'name'} ? Trying to find you in the history 04:23 chris number 75 pianohacker 04:24 SirStan just a couple minor edits piano. 04:24 SirStan ~25 lines committed 04:24 SirStan ive done more on the wiki that in code 04:26 pianohacker chris: ah, thanks 04:27 pianohacker SirStan: Community peer review has its ups and downs, don't it? 04:28 pianohacker (usually positive ones, but not always) 04:30 SirStan pianohacker: the lib world is wierd. 04:31 SirStan Koha is slow and bloated. 04:31 SirStan yet no one cares.. and are defensive if you suggest that is the case. 04:32 chris who doesnt care? 04:32 SirStan not you. 04:32 SirStan seriously... your amazing for that memoize hack 04:32 SirStan but local librarians.. and way back when i suggested the 500mb koha install was bloated.. 04:33 mason :) 04:33 SirStan "buy faster hardware" 04:33 mason or delete the other language dirs, after you install... 04:34 SirStan mmm 04:34 chris thats being worked on, the debian packages will ship the localisation as seperate packages 04:36 chris i dont know a single developer who thinks koha is fast enough, if thats any consolation for you :) 04:37 mason but haaay, dont let a *perceived* harsh critique of your work sabotage your desire to contribute to the project 04:37 pianohacker Koha, being a somewhat specialized software project, 04:38 pianohacker mostly only gets really big improvements when someone is willing to pay for them 04:38 SirStan to liblime? 04:39 pianohacker To catalyst, katipo, biblibre, etc. 04:39 pianohacker and liblime, yes 04:39 SirStan who/what is catalyst? 04:39 SirStan ive heard the other names 04:39 chris ive worked for katipo, then liblime, now catalyst 04:39 SirStan wow :) 04:40 mason i think peoples satisfaction/success with the koha-project is largely what they make it.... 04:40 SirStan mason: koha is amazing. as an "outsider" to the library world who has worked with many-a-bad ILS systems from major US vendors... 04:40 mason glass half-full / glass half-empty etc 04:40 SirStan Koha rocks. 04:40 pianohacker (note: above comments based on 1.5 years of working with the koha project, take them with a full container of iodized salt) 04:41 chris ill see your 1.5 and raise you 10 :-) 04:41 pianohacker chris: well, exactly :) 04:41 chris SirStan: there are few projects on the go 04:41 chris pianohacker is doing some neat stuff with AJAX and circulation 04:42 chris ive been expirementing with template-toolkit instead of html::template 04:42 chris and we want to add DBIx::Class in too 04:42 chris + mod_perl safing it 04:43 pianohacker Though ironically doing paid work on Koha is interfering with working on Koha for fun (including getting a nice version of the ajaxcirc patches sent in) 04:43 chris which should make it smaller/faster 04:43 chris heh, thats the problem 04:43 chris no one wants to pay for the optimisation stuff, so you end up working on data migrations instead 04:43 SirStan our issue here is that our users are on dial up. 04:43 SirStan and koha taking 400k/page is a barrier 04:44 chris yep 04:44 chris you have got expires headers set up eh? 04:44 SirStan yea. but that doesnt help first load 04:44 SirStan yui+jquery+custom js 04:44 chris yeah, id set them to like a year 04:44 chris the other option 04:44 pianohacker SirStan: And even if you set expire headers up, that's still ~40 round trips per page just to get 302 not modified 04:45 chris is koha is designed to work with /theme/language/ 04:45 chris you could make cut down versions of the opac ... maybe a minimal theme 04:45 chris i think mobile users would like that too 04:45 chris back in the day 04:46 chris koha was designed precisely to work on dialup 04:46 chris and not fast dialup either ... dialup that could do 33k3 max 04:46 SirStan i know :) 04:46 chris because the electric fences messed up any compression 04:46 SirStan actually 04:46 chris tick tick tick on the phone line doesnt help 04:46 SirStan same issue here 04:46 SirStan ironically 04:47 chris i do think, that with not too much effort 04:47 pianohacker SirStan: At the very least, you could minimize the JS and CSS and combine them both into just two files 04:47 chris *nod* 04:47 chris mod_deflate 04:47 chris too 04:47 chris but now i must go pick up my son ... id encourage checking out mod_deflate and/or mod_gzip 04:48 chris and making the expires headers a long long time from now :) 04:48 SirStan hmm. 04:48 SirStan mhm* -- ive got it shrunk down quite a bit 04:48 SirStan just running everything through minimizers helps alot 04:48 pianohacker Yup 04:49 pianohacker Some of the included JS libraries are pre-minimized, but Koha's own JS is not (to ease development) 04:50 pianohacker It probably wouldn't be horribly difficult to write a script that generated a version of the prog theme with minimized HTML/CSS/JS 04:50 SirStan took me about 30 minutes 04:51 pianohacker Well, there you go then. Please think about submitting it in 05:56 chris back 07:02 hdl_laptop hi 07:03 Elwell_ morning all 07:03 chris hi Elwell_ and hdl_laptop 07:08 chris hi nicomo and Kivutar 07:08 Kivutar hello 07:08 nicomo hi chris 07:10 Elwell_ Git Q - does it include old history (from SVN) or was it a clean export? 07:10 chris it includes old 07:10 chris (from cvs) 07:10 chris git.koha.org has back to 2000 07:11 Elwell_ ace. Now I need to make my script work with git :-) 07:11 chris i have another git repo for the cvs repository prior to putting koha up on sourceforge in 2000 07:11 chris http://stats.workbuffer.org/ 07:11 Elwell_ chris: how many developers at that time? (pre 2k) 07:12 chris http://stats.workbuffer.org/koha-19991022-20001012/authors.html 07:12 chris 2 main ones 07:13 chris youve seen the history file eh? 07:13 Elwell_ yeah 07:13 chris basically i used those 2 repos, plus the mailing lists to create it 07:16 Elwell_ chris: Trying to show 'commitment' to open source projects - ie how many developers stick with a project longf term (and then see if they're being paid to do so...) 07:17 Elwell_ is 'open source' really open :-) 07:17 chris ahh right 07:17 Elwell_ pitching a paper at a management journal 07:17 chris cool 07:18 chris most of the time i have been paid to do at least some koha work, but i had a year, april 2008 - april 2009 when i wasnt being paid to do any work 07:19 chris (any work on koha that is) 07:19 Elwell_ 'frinstance > 30% of the last Linux Kernel (by changeset) was paid for by RH,Intel,Novell,IBM 07:20 chris http://stats.workbuffer.org/koha-20001220-now/authors.html 07:20 chris that might be interesting, the date of first commit, and the last one 07:20 chris actually i need to regen that, 2 secs 07:20 Elwell_ do you keep any 'company' or sponsoring info to map usernames to? 07:21 chris only in my head 07:21 Elwell_ np 07:21 chris i could tell you pretty much all of them if you wanted 07:22 Elwell_ I'll have a poke around once I do some Real Work :-/ 07:22 chris :) 07:23 chris k regened the stats from the latest rebase 07:24 chris hi paul_p 07:24 paul_p hi chris. 07:33 chris very cool logo nicomo :) 07:33 nicomo thanks chris 07:33 nicomo was great fun to make actually 07:34 chris Elwell_: i think for Koha > 95% was paidfor by libraries 07:34 chris via katipo, liblime, biblibre etc 07:34 chris actually maybe 90% 07:34 nicomo Elwell_: and that seems pretty natural since it's not a general public, general purpose software 07:35 chris but thats just a total guess 07:35 chris and it gets tricky, if someone is paid for a 40hour week and works 60 hours on koha etc 07:37 chris i think in koha, its quite interesting, because users contribute more than say linux 07:37 chris ie there are millions of linux users, and the percentage that contribute in either time or money back to the project would be much lower than for koha 07:38 chris and once again, i think as nicomo has said, it is because its a specialised piece of software 07:38 Elwell_ chris: yeah thats what I'm expecting 09:07 |Lupin| hello there ! 09:07 chris hi |Lupin| 09:08 |Lupin| hi chris ! how are you ? 09:09 |Lupin| (Is it possible in koha to see all the records that are present in the catalogue?) 09:10 chris not in the web interface 09:10 |Lupin| ah too bad.. The other way is in SQL, then ? 09:10 chris *nod* 09:11 |Lupin| or s there a third way ? 09:11 chris thats the only way i can think of 09:11 |Lupin| okay 09:12 |Lupin| I hav ethis strange error message I already had: Can't call method "as_usmarc" on an undefined value at /usr/local/stow/koha-3.00.01-stable/lib/C4/Search.pm line 2119. 09:13 chris when you are doing a search? 09:13 |Lupin| I'm wondering if koha's tables haven't been corrputed and if there is some sanity checks I could run, or perhaps some scripts to regenerate sane tables;.. 09:13 |Lupin| chris: yes 09:13 chris it could be just one record, with an invalid marc record 09:13 |Lupin| chris: okay 09:14 chris do you have xslt switched on? 09:14 chris (that question on applies if you are searching in the opac) 09:14 |Lupin| but I also have the error when doing a search which is supposed to give aback a record provided by the french national library 09:15 |Lupin| not sure this record has been successfully imported, though 09:15 |Lupin| chris: I am searching in the opac and I don't know how to see whether xslt is turned on o off ... 09:16 chris if you search in the librarian interface, same search, do you get the same error? 09:16 |Lupin| chris: I'm checking this... didn't know it could make a difference... 09:17 chris it probably wont in this case, but if you do have xslt turned on (in the opac tab in system preferences) 09:17 chris the opac and the librarian interface will render results differently 09:18 chris this sounds like it couldnt create a valid MARC::Record object 09:18 chris so when it tried to call as_usmarc it blew up 09:19 |Lupin| in the librarian interface it doesn't find anything 09:19 chris and usually it cant make MARC::Record object if there is something invalid in what it is using (the marcxml column in biblioitem) 09:19 chris you do a select marcxml from biblioitems where biblionumber = somenumber 09:20 |Lupin| I can check the table directly... 09:20 chris and quickly eyeball that column 09:20 chris id look for missing closing tags 09:20 chris or something like that 09:21 |Lupin| thre are five results 09:21 chris orly? 09:22 |Lupin| yes 09:22 |Lupin| it's normal 09:22 chris three biblioitems for the same biblionumber? 09:22 |Lupin| I just tried to import a few records semi-manually... 09:22 chris ah 09:22 chris in which case i have no idea which one it will actually be trying to use when rendering the results 09:23 |Lupin| okay 09:23 |Lupin| let me see more precisely what happens... 09:27 |Lupin| chris: wget http://inova.snv.jussieu.fr/log 09:28 |Lupin| chris: would ou mind taking just one minute to have a look to it and tell me hat you think about it, please ? 09:30 fredericd |Lupin|: \n in MARC records sound not good! 09:31 |Lupin| fredericd: yes I was surprised to see them too, but I thought it may be mysql printing... ? 09:32 chris hmm 09:32 |Lupin| I didn't touch the marcxml directly, never. The onlyy tol I used to import was bulkmarcimport 09:32 |Lupin| and by the way it's koha 3.00.01 09:33 chris cant see anything obvious, BUT, you shouldnt have 5 biblioitems attached to the same biblio 09:34 |Lupin| chris: I think it's because when I did the bulkmarcimportfor the first time, it gave a lot of warnings, so I ran it several times 09:34 chris it should then make different biblio's 09:34 chris ie there should be a 1-1 relationship 09:35 |Lupin| chris: does this mean that there is a bug in bulkmarcimport ? 09:35 |Lupin| (the data were the same for each run) 09:35 chris there might have been for 3.0.1 09:36 chris i havent seen it make multiple biblioitems attached to one biblio before though 09:36 |Lupin| chris: so... should I update to 3.00.02 ? 09:37 chris the code expects a one to one relationship, so i have no idea which one of those 5 will be actually being returned 09:38 chris probably the first one 09:38 |Lupin| chris: and also, I don't think the same marc xml appears five times. From what I can see, I'd say there are three occurrences for "Fille de rouge" which is a marc record I have built manually, and two occurrences of "La marche consulaire", which come from the national library 09:38 chris yes but do they all have the same biblionumber? 09:38 chris what is the sql you used to get those 5? 09:39 |Lupin| select marcxml from biblioitems 09:39 chris ahh so you didnt do where biblionumber=something? 09:40 |Lupin| and the biblionumbers are distinct 09:40 |Lupin| from 7 to 11 09:40 chris right i misunderstood i thought you were just trying to get the one problem record 09:40 |Lupin| chris: no because I didn't know the biblionumbers... 09:41 |Lupin| chris: no it's my fault, I'm not clear enough myself to explain things the right way 09:41 |Lupin| chris: what I'm trying to do is 09:41 |Lupin| 1. See which titles are present in the catalog 09:41 chris right 09:41 |Lupin| 2. understand why a search for a word does not work. 09:41 chris select title from biblio; 09:42 chris is the easy way to spot that one 09:42 chris what is the word you are searching for? 09:42 |Lupin| I tried fille and consulaire 09:42 |Lupin| both fail 09:43 |Lupin| (in the OPAC they give the message I have shown previouslèy) 09:43 |Lupin| So "Fille de rouge" indeed appears three times, whereas "La marche consulaire" appears once. 09:43 |Lupin| s/once/twice/ 09:44 chris right 09:44 |Lupin| so now 1 is solved and 2 remains. 09:45 chris how about we do a bulkmarcimport -d 09:45 chris to clear it out and just load in one record 09:46 |Lupin| yes, good idea 09:46 |Lupin| let me do that. 09:48 |Lupin| the -d didn't seem to work, because bulkmarcimport displayed its help 09:48 chris ahh you need to do bulkmarcimport -d -file whatever_the_file_is_called -n 1 09:49 |Lupin| ah okay 09:49 |Lupin| I thought -d was enough 09:50 chris ah no, sorry, currently you can only clear it out as part of an import 09:51 |Lupin| yep 09:51 |Lupin| my mistake 09:51 |Lupin| no problem 09:52 |Lupin| it worked, modulo a lot of warnings ! 09:52 |Lupin| okay, now I indeed have just one title. 09:53 chris using zebra? 09:53 |Lupin| no 09:53 |Lupin| normally, no. 09:53 |Lupin| I did, but now I do not anylonger.. 09:54 chris in that case you will need to run rebuild_nozebra.pl 09:55 chris with -r for reset 09:55 |Lupin| is there a way to ensure that koha really does not use zebra ? 09:56 |Lupin| oh 09:56 chris yep, it wont use it you set the systempreference to not use it 09:56 |Lupin| even when zebra is not use there is a command to run to rebuild the index ? 09:56 chris only after an import 09:56 |Lupin| chris: is the system preference stored in the database somehow ? 09:56 chris yes 09:56 |Lupin| easier for me than using the web interface 09:57 |Lupin| ah that's the piece I missed 09:57 chris (note rebuild_nozebra not rebuild_zebra) 09:58 chris you can actually look in the nozebra table 09:59 chris after you have rebuilt the index (it builds the index automatically if you add records through the web interface) 09:59 chris the nozebra table is what it searches 09:59 |Lupin| I see 10:00 |Lupin| chris: maybe bulkmarcimport could run the right command automatically, or perhaps even have a command-line option to do so ? 10:04 chris it could, but you need to run different ones whether you are using zebra or not 10:05 |Lupin| chris: and the script can not figure out whether zebra is used or not ? 10:06 |Lupin| and now the search in the opac works ! Thanks a lot for your help chris, and thanks especially for your patience ! I feel rather dumb regarding koha 10:06 chris yep, it could, but personally i like running it as 2 separate jobs 10:08 |Lupin| chris: ok 10:08 chris it would be really cool if it could be parallelised 10:09 chris so that they can run at the same time 10:09 |Lupin| this coudl be done ? 10:09 chris using different threads 10:09 |Lupin| I thought there is a dependency between import and rbuild ? 10:09 chris yep, you would need to load at least one record, before starting the index 10:09 |Lupin| or may bi you mean that once a record has been imported, this record can be indexed and the next one could then be imported at the same one ? 10:09 chris but you dont need to wait for 80,000 10:10 chris before you start indexing 10:10 chris yep 10:10 |Lupin| understood 10:10 |Lupin| yes, would be nice 10:11 chris the list of things to do always grows :) 10:11 |Lupin| but for tbhe newbie like me, it is not obvious that importing and indexing should be 2 distinct jobs. But I can very well understand that for those who are more familiar with the topic this makes sense 10:12 chris if you run with zebra on 10:12 chris the rebuild_zebra.pl needs to be run as a cron job 10:13 |Lupin| chris: because it is not called when records are added through the web interface, or for another reason ? 10:13 chris yeah, because its slow 10:13 chris so you dont want to slow down the web interface waiting for the indexer to run after every record is changed 10:13 chris so it runs in the background 10:14 |Lupin| chris: one other possibility would be to have it run in the background by the web interface, which wouldn't wait for it to terminate... would that make sense ? 10:14 chris it is one possibility 10:14 chris but you would get race conditions 10:15 chris if 20 people are changing things at once, you might end up with 20 things trying to build/update indexes at once 10:15 |Lupin| chris: with the cron job you are sure you don't ? just because it runs during the night when every librarian sleeps, or for a stronger reason ? 10:16 chris zebra doesnt deal with that well 10:16 chris no it runs every 5 mins (or 1 min or 10 mins or whenever) 10:16 chris but only runs once 10:16 |Lupin| yes, I understand it now, thanks ! 10:16 chris it uses the zebraqueue table to know which records it needs to index 10:17 chris so if one gets changed 5 times in 5 mins, it only gets indexed once (not 5 times) 10:17 |Lupin| chris: okay 10:17 |Lupin| but 5 changes are done to the zebraqueue table ? 10:17 chris yep 10:17 |Lupin| got it ! good ! 10:17 |Lupin| thanks ! 10:29 |Lupin| perhaps bulkmarcimport could by default display a warning saying that hte user should perhaps run rebuild_zebra or rebuild_nozebra, with a -q option or something like that to disable the warning 10:30 chris the documentation should say that, but yes it wouldnt hurt for the scripts to say that also 11:23 chris heya jdavidb, all settled in? 11:24 jdavidb Getting there, chris, getting there. We still have many boxes around the apartment, though. 11:25 jdavidb I've about got my commute figured out, though--when to be out there for which bus, etc--to get me here in the shortest time with the least crowd. 11:25 chris sweet 11:26 chris bout how long is the commute? 11:26 jdavidb About forty minutes, counting waits. short ride to the train station, three stops along the train line, then another short bus ride. 11:27 chris thats not too bad 11:28 jdavidb If I miss that first bus, I can walk to the train station, and get to work about thirty minutes later than usual. 3/4 mile or so walk. 11:31 chris not to bad as long as its not raining :) 11:32 jdavidb If it's raining, I just make dang sure *not* to miss that first bus. :P 11:32 chris :) 11:34 jdavidb It's apparently monsoon season here; I've seen more rain in the last week than I saw in a typical *year* in Abilene. Truly amazing. 11:34 Amit hi jdavidb 11:34 jdavidb Hi, Amit. :) 11:44 chris ohh good idea to use Mollom