Time  Nick       Message
10:19 nicomo     evening chris
10:15 chris      evening nicomo
09:07 Amit       hi paul_p
08:32 paul_p     hi chris
08:31 chris      hi paul
08:30 chris      http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=commitdiff;h=fda56015444261bea7883d18973caca2e1f90a33
08:28 chris      hdl_laptop: yep, updated them last night
08:27 SelfishMan Koha doesn't compare
08:26 kf         g
08:26 hdl_laptop thx for comparing koha to tables and chisel
08:26 SelfishMan I'm pretty sure that using stone tablets and a chisel would be an *upgrade* from Sagebrush Athena
08:25 hdl_laptop have you updated translation notes ?
08:25 mason      to prepare to celebrate the athena -> koha change-over
08:25 chris      hdl_laptop: done
08:25 hdl_laptop new comer ?or new contract ? or end of contract ?
08:24 hdl_laptop why ?
08:24 hdl_laptop mason ?
08:23 SelfishMan Sweet.  4 more days until I go live with Koha and dump Athena
08:23 mason      bonjour all
08:19 hdl_laptop chris: i am ok with that.
08:00 kf         hi chris
07:57 chris      ?
07:56 chris      shall i commit them and push them up
07:56 chris      Serhij Dubyk
07:56 chris      from
07:55 chris      hdl_laptop: i have some files for ukranian and russian, unimarc and other sql stuff (like the en and french ones)
07:54 chris      hi hdl and kf
07:52 hdl_laptop hi
07:50 kf         good morning
03:26 Amit       hi gm mason
03:26 Amit       hi good morning
19:35 owen       Hey, no remote image option for adding an icon to an authorized value? Bummer.
18:32 gmcharlt   works for me now - looks like glitch was temporary
18:32 atz        the latter works fine for me
18:31 gmcharlt   www.kohadocs.org works, but not http://kohadocs.org
18:31 atz        dunno
18:22 nengard    I'm getting a 503 error
18:21 nengard    anyone know what's up with kohadocs.org?
16:35 atz        owen: not sure...  would have to connect w/ yaz-client to be sure
16:25 owen       Now it's not... Has the syntax changed, or do we probably just not have that indexed now?
16:24 owen       http://acpl.kohalibrary.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-search.pl?q=ccl=onorder:-1
16:24 owen       Before our upgrade to 3.0 this search worked to find titles which were designated as "on order" (NOT_LOAN = -1)
16:22 danny      ok thank you both
16:20 paul_p     ... continued in april (KohaCon)
16:19 paul_p     danny: in 2 weeks there will be some meeting between BibLibre & LL, we will speak of our repsectives devs & hopefully some timelines
16:17 gmcharlt   danny: later than April - I need to take stock, but early summer seems to more likely
16:17 liz        the other tags seem to be working, pulling the proper info
16:16 liz         instead of the information?
16:16 liz        <<branches.branchphone>>
16:16 liz        <<branches.branchaddress3>>
16:16 liz        <<branches.branchaddress1>>
16:16 liz        <<branches.branchname>>
16:16 liz        silly question of the day, can anybody tell me why our notices would be displaying
16:13 danny      gmcharlt: I believe the last email I saw a while ago said expected release for 3.2 was early april 09? is this still accurate or is there a better estimated date?
16:13 sedwards   sorry, from *search results* page.
16:12 sedwards   vestiges of pre-MARC stuff was very confusing, but now everything can be much cleaner, i think.
16:11 sedwards   fyi, in reserves stuff, to allow multiple hold requests at once from search page.
16:10 sedwards   without blowing anything up.
16:09 sedwards   i'm trying to find my way around as i implement some HCL additions for next release.
16:09 sedwards   can't say i blame you.
16:09 paul_p     facebook... yikes... you will never meet me on facebook !
16:08 sedwards   unfortunately, no, but i joined the faceboook group at least.
16:08 paul_p     nice to meet you (& if you'll be at KohaCon, we will met in real life ;-) )
16:08 paul_p     gotch too ;-)
16:08 sedwards   Gotcha.
16:07 sedwards   sorry, Steve Edwards, doing some work for Howard County Library.
16:07 paul_p     (I realise I don't know who is sedwards)
16:07 sedwards   repetition is good for me. :)
16:06 hdl_laptop sorry, re saying what paul_p already said.
16:06 owen       Not "somewhat broke", "completely broke" :)
16:06 sedwards   i see.
16:05 hdl_laptop since MARC biblios have everything in one record.
16:05 hdl_laptop But MARC support somewhat broke that "FRBRization".
16:04 hdl_laptop ....
16:04 hdl_laptop -Book edition2
16:04 hdl_laptop - Book edition1
16:04 hdl_laptop - Film
16:04 hdl_laptop Harry Potter 1
16:04 hdl_laptop so have one title, linked with more than 1 biblioitems :
16:03 hdl_laptop sedwards: In fact, in 1999, koha was meant to FRBRize biblio display
15:58 HARE9      well, good evening all
15:56 sedwards   thanks for the background, it's quite helpful.
15:55 sedwards   i see.
15:55 paul_p     (moving from 2level MARC to 3 level FRBR is really complex)
15:55 gmcharlt   sedwards: eventually, would like to support FRBR
15:55 paul_p     although no ILS has it yet
15:54 sedwards   that is on the radar for a future release?
15:54 paul_p     yep
15:54 HARE9      new standard for notices?
15:54 paul_p     www.ifla.org/VII/s13/frbr/frbr.htm
15:54 sedwards   ok.
15:54 paul_p     www.frbr.org
15:54 paul_p     FRBR: Functional Requirements for Bibliographic Records.
15:53 sedwards   FRBR?
15:53 paul_p     (even if the FRBR reintroduces the 3 levels...)
15:53 sedwards   and the redundant perl scripts.
15:53 paul_p     the next step being probably to clean the DB !
15:53 paul_p     but since 3.x, MARC=OFF doesn't exist anymore, and you are stick with 2 levels only.
15:53 paul_p     the MARC=OFF syspref was still working in 2.x, and you still can have 1/M/P
15:52 paul_p     (my job)
15:52 paul_p     when MARC feature were added, we had to move to a 2 level (biblio/items) only.
15:52 sedwards   i see.
15:52 paul_p     but this does not exist in MARC
15:52 sedwards   ah.
15:52 paul_p     in koha 1.x, one could have 1 biblio / N biblioitems / P items
15:52 sedwards   but also explains why lots of perl code still assumes there are multiple biblioitemnumers per biblionum.
15:51 paul_p     history mode=ON
15:51 sedwards   but that's what i was wondering, whether they are the same thing.  looks like that is true.
15:51 sedwards   paul_p: no kidding.
15:51 paul_p     )
15:51 paul_p     however, it's what I call "deep koha", so noone tried to remove them until now (as it would mean merge biblio & biblioitems tables into 1, and that's "very deep koha" !
15:50 HARE9      w00t, my first positive karma :-D
15:50 paul_p     HARE9: ++ biblioitemnumber should be removed.
15:49 HARE9      but i'm really unsure, i don't know the rfcs implemented in 3.2 very well
15:49 sedwards   that's what i'm trying to determine.
15:49 HARE9      so biblioitemnumber is a redundant column imho
15:47 sedwards   i'm not living in the future. :)
15:47 sedwards   sorry, yes.
15:47 paul_p     sedwards: 3.2 ? you mean "git master" isn't it ? as 3.2 don't exist
15:47 sedwards   i've seen some list messages that imply this, but it's not spelled out anywhere (that i can tell).  makes me nervous.
15:47 HARE9      :-D
15:47 sedwards   sorry. |p
15:47 HARE9      ok, sorry, i'm still at 3.0.
15:46 HARE9      ah
15:46 sedwards   didn't mention, i'm looking at 3.2
15:46 HARE9      biblioitems has three fields, biblionumber, biblioitemnumber and volume
15:46 HARE9      hmmm, my db is different
15:45 sedwards   in the sample DBs i have seen, biblionumber always equals biblioitemnumber.
15:45 sedwards   hmm.  the 'items' table has an 'itemnumber', 'biblionumber', and 'biblioitemnumber'.
15:44 HARE9      at leas thtat's how i understand it
15:44 HARE9      so if you have more than one items of a biblio, the biblioitemnumber will differ
15:44 HARE9      sedwards, i don't think so, biblioitemnumber is the item's number. the biblionumber in the biblioitems db is the biblionumber
15:39 kf         have to go home now - bye #koha
15:39 sedwards   also, is there a schema being maintained anywhere?  the links to koha-fr.org in the wiki don't seem to work anymore.
15:36 sedwards   i.e., biblio table is 1:1 with biblioitems table?
15:36 sedwards   could someone please verify: biblionumber == biblioitemnumber, always?
15:30 hdl_laptop thx
15:29 kf         we will try to change Output.pm - i will tell you about the results then
15:12 kf         normalization for search would be next then
15:11 kf         perhaps we can try on the fly - i can test and i asked my colleague if he can change Output.pm, but have no answer yet
15:10 kf         hm
15:10 kf         you have to check for normalization before every input and create statement - at first i only thought about z39.50, but to do it right its more complicated
15:08 gmcharlt   doing it on the fly, assuming that isn't too slow, would save us a lot of trouble
15:07 gmcharlt   meaning that a lot of code would have to be checked to enforce NFC in the database
15:07 gmcharlt   and afaik mysql doesn't do anything to enforce a particular NF
15:06 gmcharlt   the problem with that is that a lot of Koha databases have mixed Unicode normalization forms
15:05 kf         we have a script for normalizing to NFC before batch-import
15:04 kf         but i think one place wont be enough to secure normalized data in the database
15:03 kf         im also concerned about performance
15:03 kf         i would really prefer that
15:03 hdl_laptop but have rather normalized data in database.
15:03 hdl_laptop kf : as far as I am concerned, i wouldnot go editing Output only,
15:02 gmcharlt   back
14:38 gmcharlt   brb
14:34 kf         i have no perl programmers here, but perhaps I can try and change Output.pm
14:33 kf         hm
14:32 gmcharlt   cool
14:24 hdl_laptop It looks quite good now.
14:24 hdl_laptop gmcharlt: we have made some work on icu configuration for zebra.
14:24 gmcharlt   probably
14:23 kf         icu?
14:22 gmcharlt   I'd have to play around with it
14:22 gmcharlt   search will need extra work, but not all that much - in fact, changing the Zebra config may be sufficient
14:20 kf         or just display - which is not a solution for searching, that needs extra work, exspecially when different forms are to be expected in one database
14:19 kf         do you think there will be normalization for import in the future?
14:19 kf         thx galen
14:19 gmcharlt   output_html_with_http_headers() in C4/Output.pm
14:18 kf         ok, one place? where?
14:16 gmcharlt   and testing to ensure that doing this doesn't impact performance too much
14:15 gmcharlt   kf: not hard - it's just a matter of using a function from the Unicode::Normalize module in one place
14:11 kf         galen - how difficult is it to use normalization for display and where to do that? im not a programmer
14:02 kf         arial unicode ms is ok too
14:01 kf         ok - i think this font displays right
14:01 gmcharlt   using the Mac's Times font
14:00 kf         display in IE is always correct
13:59 kf         which font is configured in your browser? standard is times new roman
13:59 kf         the .. in displays in your browser correctly?
13:58 kf         windows xp, firefox 3.0.5
13:58 kf         yes
13:58 gmcharlt   on Windows?
13:57 kf         firefox
13:56 gmcharlt   what browser are you using
13:56 gmcharlt   actually, all forms look OK to me (FireFox 3 on OS X 10.5)
13:54 kf         display seems to be correct with NFC, NFKC and FCD? http://demo.icu-project.org/icu-bin/nbrowser?t=m%C3%BCller&s=&uv=0
13:47 kf         i cant present an opac, which cant display german umlauts :(
13:46 kf         galen: you said it could be done for display - perhaps its really a start
13:43 owen       Yeah, that seems to have fixed it. Thanks gmcharlt
13:42 gmcharlt   yes
13:41 owen       So a hidden input name="koha_login_context" value="opac" ?
13:41 gmcharlt   with value 'opac'
13:40 gmcharlt   you probably need to add a koha_login_context parameter to your form submission
13:39 owen       This was working before our Koha 3 upgrade
13:39 owen       Meaning, the login form is on our library's home page and submits to the OPAC
13:39 owen       Does anyone know if something changed in the OPAC which would prevent my users from logging in from another site?
13:38 gmcharlt   hi owen
13:38 owen       Hi kf and #koha
13:38 kf         hi owen
13:35 gmcharlt   hi hdl_laptop
13:35 hdl_laptop hi gmcharlt
13:35 kf         for display and search NFC is propably the right choice
13:34 kf         i think there are three problems: display, search and mix of both forms in the database
13:32 kf         ah sorry, im repeating myself
13:29 kf         koha is web-based, i think w3c recommendation is also nfc?
13:27 gmcharlt   most web browsers work better with NFC
13:27 hdl_laptop http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalisation_Unicode#NFC
13:27 kf         but seems that w3c recommends nfc? just started reading about normalization today
13:27 hdl_laptop mmm... nfkd is here for compatibility
13:26 kf         means the way it is now
13:25 gmcharlt   normalization form canonical decomposed - opposite of NFC, basically
13:25 kf         nfkd means... i have to look it up
13:23 kf         so import via z39.50 and batch import is problematic
13:23 gmcharlt   complicating matters, NFKD is technically preferred for UTF-8 encoded MARC21
13:23 kf         keyboard input seems to be normalized
13:23 kf         hello paul
13:23 paul_p     hello world
13:22 gmcharlt   that would be ideal, but difficult to achieve
13:22 kf         i think it would be best to have only the normalized form in the database - so the data is consistent
13:21 hdl_laptop kf would not tough too.
13:20 kf         what about adding it to z39.50 conversion?
13:20 gmcharlt   possible also when sending records to Zebra to be indexed, in case it makes any difference
13:20 gmcharlt   as a start
13:19 kf         output normalization - just for display?
13:19 kf         hi galen
13:16 gmcharlt   kf: won't be hard to add NFC for output normalization
12:37 kf         back
12:00 kf         sorry, will be back in 30 minutes
11:59 kf         hdl: you mean 3.0 or 3.2 ?
11:58 kf         hi amit
11:56 hdl_laptop But When ?
11:55 hdl_laptop kf: I think we can make it.
11:54 Amit       hi hdl
11:54 hdl_laptop hi Amit
11:54 Amit       hi kf
11:32 kf         I think we dont know koha well enough to add this feature, but perhaps liblime or biblibre can do
11:29 kf         seems, that this could be solve your problem too
11:28 kf         we would really like that - 3.2 or 3.0
11:28 hdl_laptop kf yes, and galen is RM for 3.2. This normalization could get into 3.0 but would add some new dependancies.
11:20 kf         it seems there is a perl package to do normalization: http://www.mail-archive.com/perl4lib@perl.org/msg01337.html
11:20 kf         ah, thx hdl
11:20 hdl_laptop kf: it is all é à ....