Time Nick Message 14:21 johnny haha, true 14:47 danny in trying to understand koha better, I am curious as to the reasoning behind having the templates include the html coding + language, instead of just having all of the wording become variables and then including like a language file? 14:48 danny it seems like with the way it is currently setup if I make a html coding change to an en template, that same change would need to be made to a fr template, is that true? 14:48 owen danny: you're not the first to ask the question 14:48 hdl danny: yes 14:49 hdl But there is a process that does it automatically 14:49 danny oh really? that is good 14:50 paul misc/translator/tmpl_process3.pl 14:51 owen paul, is there anything on the wiki describing the process? 14:52 owen There is a howtotranslatekoha page, but it's not really what it sounds like: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=howtotranslatekoha 14:52 danny paul: ah I see, ok thank you 14:53 owen danny, we do it this way with Koha to make it easier for the developers to work on the templates. Devs get real language strings in the template when editing rather than variable names they'd have to look up elsewhere 14:53 owen At least that's the rationale I recall 14:54 danny hehe 14:54 danny that is true 14:57 danny and if I have questions on some usability/template design questions, is it best to ask here or the koha-devel list? 14:58 owen Either place. Try here first and mail the list if you don't get a good answer or want to get more of a consensus. 14:59 danny mostly concerning why certain things are setup they way they are and if they can be changed or not 14:59 danny ok sounds good 14:59 owen I'm eager to hear any questions you've got 15:00 danny ok they are all about really little specific things 15:00 danny like when modifying a Child Patron from the staff side, there is a drop down list for Relationship under Guarantor information 15:01 danny there can be many more options under relationship then father/mother 15:01 paul yes, that's why it's defined in a syspref ;-) 15:01 danny ah 15:02 owen borrowerRelationship 15:02 danny ok I see it, thanks 15:15 nengard danny, this may be of help to you: http://sites.google.com/a/liblime.com/koha-manual/ 15:15 danny ok i'll take a look at it, thanks 15:16 gmcharlt hi liz-nekls 15:18 nengard hiya liz-nekls 15:47 liz-nekls hola chica did you have a good weekend? 15:53 nengard can someone tell me if this is right? 15:53 nengard AutomaticItemReturn 15:53 nengard Defines if Koha will automatically transfer an item to to its home branch, or not. 15:53 nengard Default Value: ON 15:53 nengard Values: 15:53 nengard * ON = Items checked in at a location other than the home branch specified in their record will be set as in transit to their home location. 15:53 nengard o IMPORTANT: This assumes you know what needs to be transferred, and initiates the transfer automatically without showing a notification message. 15:54 nengard * OFF = Items will not be set as in transit to their home location, instead the item will remain at the library that checked the item. The check in location will show on the item record as the 'holding' location (like a temp location) 15:54 nengard liz-nekls - i did have a nice weekend, we went to hershey, PA and now i'm going through my training notes to update documentation :) 15:54 liz-nekls nengard-nice 15:55 liz-nekls nengard did you get chocolate? 15:55 nengard liz-nekls i went to an SLA meeting and scientists from hershey were there and they gave us free samples ;) yum 15:55 liz-nekls mmm awesome 16:04 nengard can someone fill in the ?? on this page for me - just tell me what to put and I'll put it in: http://sites.google.com/a/liblime.com/koha-manual/Home/Table-of-Contents/administration/Manual--Catalog/Catalog--Authorized-Values 16:06 hdl (For HINGS_* 16:06 hdl )= 16:07 nengard hdl - yeah those are the ones that i can't even guess about 16:09 owen The wiki at least gives a better description of those codes: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:kohaauthvalues#holdings_statements_for_bibliographic_items 16:12 nengard owen thanks - i added that info to my document 16:25 mc hello all 16:25 mc i read the Zeno's message 16:26 mc as there is no object i seen on the koha API, i'm trying to figure out how a UML diagram can help ? 16:26 mc any idea ? 16:26 mc ( E/R diagram can be really usefull, btw ) 16:27 acmoore mc: I can see it being useful, too, but probably really difficult to do on the current Koha code. 16:30 mc hmm ... sorry for my poor english: i'm trying to tell that i think is quiet useless as there is no diagram to draw 16:30 mc (i think about class diagram : action diagram is just impossible to render automatically) 16:32 mc (or perhaps it's just an UML view of the schema ... so why not just E/R? ) 16:33 acmoore mc: Yes, I think I follow you. we don't really have any objects, so you can't really make a model for it. 16:34 acmoore mc: But, perhaps something useful will come out of it. It doesn't really cost the rest of us much to see how they do, so I can't object. 16:36 mc that's why i shut up for now 16:36 paul write a mail to tell your questions & doubts. 16:36 mc but peraps there is better to do ... 16:36 mc paul, ok 16:36 paul at least, they will realize it will not be that easy to get something really usefull 16:36 mc i just wanted to know if i was just wrong :) 16:37 mc yep 16:37 mc you're right 17:00 mc someone knows how to translate "API metier" ? 17:00 mc that means: API that provides a business abstraction 17:07 hdl professional API 17:07 cnighs any ddc experts, semi-experts, or just plain non-experts w/some kind of ddc experience around? 17:11 nengard cnighs they use ddc at nekls- liz-nekls do you know anything that can help? 17:43 sawariwap anyone awake? 17:45 atz yep 17:45 danny somewhat awake =) 17:46 qiqo hi atz and danny 17:47 qiqo ive just upgraded to rc1 17:47 qiqo from 2.2 here 17:47 qiqo and im having trouble running the zebraserver 17:47 qiqo well the server is running 17:47 qiqo but when i perform search, nothing is reflected 17:47 mc hdl, thx (i just noticed your reply) 17:47 kados qiqo: 2.2 doesn't use zebra 17:47 qiqo i have 300 bilio records 17:47 kados qiqo: you need 3.0 17:47 qiqo yeah... so i upgraded to 3.0 17:47 qiqo im using RC1 now 17:49 qiqo also i guess zebra is running 17:49 qiqo root 6128 0.0 0.7 39336 7912 pts/0 T 01:33 0:00 zebrasrv -f /etc/koha/koha-conf.xml 17:51 qiqo hmm 17:52 qiqo can anyone help me throug ssh? 17:52 qiqo i think i got the indexing wrong 17:59 ryan qiqo: you ran misc/migration_tools/rebuild_zebra -b ? 18:04 qiqo yup 18:04 qiqo ran it 18:04 qiqo 02:03:05-05/08 zebraidx(6331) [log] zebra_stop: 0.03 0.00 0.00 18:05 qiqo ==================== 18:05 qiqo CLEANING 18:05 liz-nekls nengard - sorry I was afk 18:05 liz-nekls what was the question? 18:05 qiqo ==================== 18:05 qiqo those are the last lines after the execution 18:05 qiqo but im having these errors: 02:03:05-05/08 zebraidx(6329) [warn] Record didn't contain match fields in (bib1,Local-number) 18:05 nengard np 18:08 qiqo hmm 07:23 johnny good morning 07:36 mc hello 07:36 mc i just read the chris post on packaging koha on hardy 07:36 mc chris++ 07:37 mc chris: just one point: you didn't explain how to add the GPG key for your repo 09:04 chris ahh sorry 09:04 chris you can get it from biglumber 09:04 chris ill update the post 09:04 paul hi chris 09:05 chris hi paul 09:06 paul chris: say hello to johnny the new biblibrios 09:06 paul (since yesterday) 09:08 chris hi johnny :) 09:09 chris does he work in the marseille office with you paul? 09:09 paul yep 09:09 paul we are 3 : me, osaury & johnny 09:14 chris excellent 09:20 chris mc: updated the post 09:21 paul chris: do your company use a perl framework for devs ? like catalyst. mc would be interested to know I'm sure 09:21 chris we use all sorts of different things 09:21 paul because he asked us some questions about using a framework for Koha. I have no experience. Do you have some ? 09:22 chris generally they are good for prototyping 09:22 paul he spoke of moose for example 09:22 paul (which is not really a framework, I agree) 09:22 chris but often the ease of programming, is offset by the performance hit 09:23 chris the main thing i dont like about catalyst for example, is it uses Class::DBI 09:24 paul mc: beeepp !!!! 09:24 chris so instead we use the things we like about it, like the MVC model, and template toolkit 09:24 chris but prefer to be able to tweak the sql, for performance reasons 09:25 chris for things like the SRS (running the .nz registry) and stuff.co.nz etc .. performance is very important 09:25 mc oops 09:25 mc sorry 09:26 chris so often we will prototype with a framework, or for small apps, or sites use it 09:26 chris but for big production sites, we prefer to get our hands a bit more dirty :-) 09:26 mc i read 09:26 mc 50% 09:27 chris :) 09:27 mc 80% 09:27 mc 100% 09:27 mc ok 09:27 mc on of the thing i love in catalyst is that there is no need to use anything 09:28 mc for example: Class::DBI can speed the dev, but you can feel free to rewrite your own M from scratch 09:29 chris yep, thats we end up doing 09:29 mc about performances: i just wanted to notice that the fact to don't use a framework introduce bugs (as this i have fixed) that are very bad for performances 09:30 mc a good separation of the M can drive us to a design of a generic DBI::Class M 09:30 mc pro: 09:31 mc - techno independant 09:31 mc - easy to read and understand (new conributors will appreciate) 09:31 mc and if sql tweaks possible: 09:32 chris it depends on the framework 09:32 mc a special Model::MYSQL::InSteroid 09:32 chris if we just talk about catalyst then i mostly agree 09:32 chris but there are some frameworks that are no where near as nice 09:32 chris like maypole, or tangram 09:33 chris so it has to be a *good* framework, not just any framework 09:33 mc i talk about catalyst. I love concepts of Jifty but there is too much use of mason 09:33 chris mason has some very good things 09:33 chris it depends on the structure of your website 09:33 johnny hey chris 09:33 mc and i don't like masson 'cuz it embeded perl code 09:33 chris if you can make use of the strong inheritance that mason has 09:34 mc so mason is just a kind of php++ for me 09:34 mc i don't like to see perl code in a template 09:34 chris you dont have to use it like that 09:35 chris if you build your components right 09:35 mc sure ... but you can ... so be sure someone will :) 09:35 chris you can totally separate the two 09:35 chris yeah, but you can do anything in perl .. it doesnt make perl bad :) 09:35 mc touched! i shut up :) 09:36 chris if i was writing koha now 09:36 chris from scratch, i would use either catalyst 09:37 chris or maybe rails 09:37 chris but in 99, neither existed :) 09:37 johnny eh, what about django? ☺ 09:37 mc sure: i don't beat on koha team! koha is just a good piece of software in regard of is history 09:38 chris or maybe django 09:38 mc johnny, get out of there! 09:38 mc ;) 09:38 chris or erlang 09:38 chris :) 09:38 mc :( 09:38 johnny ahhaha 09:38 mc i hope you're kidding 09:39 chris you dont like the idea of a distributed, concurrent koha? ;-) 09:39 mc johnny, if we have to change for any other language (i'm not sure it's a good idea), we have to choose a good one 09:39 chris yeah i am, if i did it erlang .. we'd have no developers :) 09:39 mc chris, well ... i don't like the idea there is no more new contrib 09:39 mc sure 09:39 chris ive been playing with pugs, and perl6 09:40 mc me too 09:40 mc that's one more point for moose: 09:40 chris actually my friend andy wrote a good post about this 09:40 chris ill find it 09:40 mc the basics are close 09:41 chris http://kapiti.geek.nz/random/why-im-passionate-about-perl.html 09:43 mc chris, what about haskell ? 09:43 mc ;) 09:45 chris heh 09:45 chris i did haskell at university 09:45 chris wrote a compiler in it 09:45 chris we could go really lowlevel, and do machine code 09:45 chris write even 09:47 johnny mc: well, he was mentioning rails... 09:47 mc johnny, rails is in ruby 09:47 johnny but yeah, i couldn't agree more 09:47 johnny yeah, it is 09:49 mc i read a book on it and i'm very attracted by the level of abstraction 09:49 mc i love the concept but have no time to practice :( 09:49 mc 'I mean, show them a thousand line Java file or a 10 line Perl program.' 09:49 chris heh 09:50 mc that's not right when you correctly use some java frameworks with very powerfull concepts as annotations 09:50 mc because those tools doesn't exists in perl 09:51 mc but the problem is that you need some 10 years java developpers to do so 09:51 chris and it still wont get finished 09:51 mc yep 09:52 mc sure 09:52 mc another problem is that it's almost impossible to do simple things with simple ways with those java frameworks 09:55 chris yep 10:00 mc why i dream about catalyst/TT2: 10:01 mc - better abstraction 10:01 mc - use of existing wheels: less code 10:01 mc (so less bugs) 10:02 mc - Easier way to organize the code (even the templates, using vmethods, wrappers, ... ) 10:02 mc s/abstraction/isolation/ 10:03 mc abstraction needs design : i spoke about all of it because i'm very afraid for the Zeno's Student 10:04 chris its a good learning experience 10:05 mc johnny, don't tell again you like things like python on this chan because logs are public: u'll ruin your carrieer ! 10:05 chris but i would suggest the student works toward creating a uml of how it could work 10:06 mc that's what i propose in my answer on the list 10:06 mc oops ... you restart apache2 in the postinst ? 10:06 chris yep 10:07 chris well, reload 10:07 mc ooh ... ok 10:07 mc i would be quiet furious if i was sysop and if a package install/update restarts my server 10:07 chris as well as linking the config into sites-enabled (before) 10:08 chris theres lots that do 10:08 mc chris, so you create a default site ? 10:09 chris at the moment 10:09 mc i thought about it when i wrote my automator 10:09 mc but now i think it's not a good idea 10:09 chris its just for testing the package 10:09 mc because i don't handle multiple sites 10:09 mc ok 10:10 chris next step is writing the preinst file that uses debconf to get values from the user 10:10 mc but i think we (vincent, MJ, ...) have to think about what we could expect from a koha package 10:10 mc ohh 10:11 chris but for now, you can install it and have a single site koha up and running pretty fast 10:12 chris if i do it right 10:12 chris then you could do dpkg-reconfigure libkoha-perl 10:13 chris and add another koha site 10:13 chris but ill think about that more tomorrow 10:15 chris hmm am i right, is there a biblibrio in toulon? 10:24 paul chris: no, there is none. Although Marseille is 50km from Toulon 10:25 chris ahhh 10:25 chris Toulon has been in the news here lots lately, because of the rugby team, and the nzer leaving his rugby league club to go play there 10:26 paul right. Marseille is THE soccer city. And Toulon a Rugby city. 10:27 mc toulon ? 10:27 mc chris, don't you think about Toulouse ? 10:29 paul mc: I don't think so : http://www.rugby-stream.fr/Rugby/Clubs-de-Pro-D2/Toulon/RC-Toulon-Un-pilier-kiwi-en-renfort_9_49_128_48961.html 10:29 chris http://stuff.co.nz/4644128a1823.html 10:29 chris (the bonus of working on a newspaper site, i have to read the news hehe) 10:29 paul lol 10:30 mc an all black in france! cool! 10:30 mc toulon will learn the aka ? 10:30 chris they already have the ex captain of the all blacks as their coach :) 10:30 chris tana umaga .. he is from wellington too 10:31 mc i remember that i was a child the first time my father told me to see the aka! i was really scarred about black shirts after that 10:32 mc (i was young rugbyman) 10:32 mc good appetite all: i go for lunch 10:41 paul bye chris 10:41 paul sweet dreams 10:41 chris have a good afternoon and happy hacking :) 11:40 nengard celebrate software freedom day: http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/archives/129