Time Nick Message 07:40 lloyd_ hola 07:37 chris evening 03:32 chris hmm is bugzilla down? 01:07 masonj nice 01:07 chris (i run this irc client in a screen on my machine at home) 01:07 chris but im on a different subnet 01:07 chris hmm mine has been ok 01:06 masonj telstra has been wiggy all week ;( 01:06 chris hows things? 01:06 chris hey mason 01:05 masonj heya chris 01:01 chris pretty much yep 01:00 atz it's like a poor man's CNC 01:00 chris as i said, its fairly distracting to have in the office :) 00:59 atz cool, loads ok 00:58 atz i.e., what counts as "materials"? 00:58 chris that tells ya 00:58 chris http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/RepRapOneDarwin <-- if that link doesnt crash 00:58 atz how can it remake the steel bars? 00:57 chris Following the principles of the Free Software Movement we are distributing the RepRap machine at no cost to everyone under the GNU General Public Licence. So, if you have a RepRap machine, you can make another and give it to a friend... 00:57 chris So what the RepRap team are doing is to develop and to give away the designs for a much cheaper machine with the novel capability of being able to self-copy (material costs are about €400). 00:57 chris This technology already exists, but the cheapest commercial machine would cost you about €30,000. And it isn't even designed so that it can make itself. 00:57 atz sweet 00:57 chris RepRap is short for Replicating Rapid-prototyper. It is the practical self-copying 3D printer shown on the right - a self-replicating machine. 00:57 chris yep 00:56 atz is that a 3D printer? 00:56 chris weird 00:55 atz it also crashes if I try to print preview on certain docs... but only on mac 00:55 chris you can get one, its licensed under the GPL :) 00:55 chris hopefully that one doesnt 00:55 chris http://reprap.org/pub/Main/WebHome/darwin-small.jpg 00:55 chris doh, sorry 00:54 atz :\ 00:54 atz chris: your link crashed my firefox/chatzilla 00:52 chris its very tempting to just go stare at it instead of poking at oracle 00:52 chris extruding even 00:52 chris its currently extruded a new bracket for itself 00:51 chris http://reprap.org/bin/view/Main/WebHome 00:06 atz at least, not directly 00:05 atz i.e., nobody dies because of OPAC errors. 00:05 atz nobody's code is that robust... but on the other hand, very few ppl's code needs to be. 23:04 gmcharlt thd-fr-lesson: thanks - you've given me something interesting to pursue 23:01 thd If you have a cut on your hand you do not expect to die. Your code should also be that robust but no ones code is. 23:00 thd I made a summary of what he presented a couple of years ago. I thought it was fascinating. 22:59 thd Gerald Sussman usually gives a presentation about that work at FSF associate member meetings each year. 22:58 thd gmcharlt: Gerald Sussman and colleagues at MIT teach a course about true system robustness. 22:56 gmcharlt thd: I'm curious - modelled on biological systems? genetic algorithm type approaches? 22:55 chris in soviet russia maybe :) 22:54 gmcharlt chris: you mean you've never had a wiki page try to edit you? 22:54 chris koha dev 101 :-) 22:53 thd gmcharlt: just as importantly, tests should show that invalid data that manages to sneak in does not break the system. However, programming for robustness modelled on biological systems is still too inefficient in terms of CPU time if not programming time 22:53 chris something a bit more interactive, than reading a wiki page 22:52 gmcharlt chris: interesting idea 22:51 chris etc 22:51 chris how to write a test case 22:51 chris i wonder if we could do some classes, via moodle 22:51 gmcharlt thd: necessary but not sufficient, IMO - unit tests should also provide some indication that the desired functionality is actually occurring; regression tests should verify that bugs don't reoccur 22:51 chris we do a bunch of work here with moodle 22:49 thd gmcharlt: unit tests should not be designed to do perhaps not much more than ensure that valid data at input is still valid data at output and has not been corrupted by the system along the way. 22:47 chris the barrier for koha has always been pretty low, which i think is a good thing 22:46 chris good point 22:46 gmcharlt thd: which is actually one of things I think we'll need to be careful about as we think about things like expanded unit test coverage - don't want to make the barrier to entry so high that somebody who makes a small change feels too intimidated to contribute it 22:46 chris yep 22:44 thd chris: One can imagine that others have efforts at making improvements in more modest ways and do not try to communicate well about them to the larger community 22:42 thd chris: I mean before that he had a few messages about Turkish character support without commenting upon what he had been working towards 22:42 chris i wonder if nicole wants to go to vermont? :) 22:41 chris he was pretty open on irc and the devel list with what he was doing 22:41 chris hmm 22:41 thd yet, tumer was working for a long time making great improvements before he gave the community any notion of what he was doing 22:40 chris they were more branches, but with cvs its a nightmare to merge back in 22:40 chris as was the liblime dev_week 22:39 chris yep, he did commit it all though 22:39 thd tumer's fork was probably necessary for him to make the progress he needed in a reasonable time frame 22:38 chris now you can cherry-pick, branch, merge, to your hearts content :) 22:38 chris back in the old cvs days, if you didnt have commit access, well a fork was about all you could do 22:37 chris theres even less need for a fork with git 22:36 chris yup 22:36 gmcharlt forks often are - particular ones made from a lack of understanding about how open software projects work 22:35 chris its the creating a new version i think is a bad idea 22:35 chris yep, im all for that 22:35 gmcharlt and not just rely on steenking vendors ;) 22:35 chris but i think if you talk with the community, you might find out the features you want arent as vermont specific as you thought 22:35 gmcharlt libraries need to encourage and develop organic programming capacity 22:34 chris oh definitely 22:34 gmcharlt but I'm all for libraries getting together to employ a programmer to hack on open source library software 22:34 chris and engage with the community 22:34 chris yep 22:33 gmcharlt chris: they need to be strongly encouraged to contribute back to consensus Koha 22:33 chris sorry, the same that happened with the south american version of koha, will happen with the vermont version 22:32 chris i suspect the same thing that will happen with the south american libraries 22:30 chris but then they want to splinter off, and lose that benefit 22:30 chris programming experience working at any given time to improve the software. 22:30 chris hundreds or thousands of people, in Koha’s case, with library and/or computer 22:30 chris This means there are likely 22:30 chris ie they say this 22:29 chris also i dont think they understand free software/open source :) 22:29 chris and their assumptions are based on 2.2.9 22:29 chris i think they havent been keeping track of koha development 22:26 thd chris: the Vermont Koha project fact sheet indicates an interest in scaling up Koha to their needs, http://www.stowelibrary.org/files/Koha_Fact_Sheet.pdf . What do you think they mean by that? 22:22 chris acmoore: the unicode/utf8 support in mysql 4 is not nearly as good as 5, but you can run it on 4 22:20 chris hmm http://gmlc.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/vermont-koha-project-news/ 20:17 acmoore is koha supposed to be able to run on a version 4.something of mysql or just 5.something? 19:48 tim That fixed my actions links. 19:44 tim Has anyone else had to do that? 19:44 tim My install has a system preference called noOPACUserLogin. I had to add one called opacuserlogin and set it to yes to get a login on my opac. 19:20 paul i'll investigate tomorrow 19:20 paul a newly created reserve has a date. It's a migration problem. 19:20 paul atz : in fact, there is no 0000-00-00 in reserves.waitingdate, just NULL. but the NULL is a problem for reserves with priority=0 & type=W 18:56 paul OK, I understand my problem with reserves table : the waitingdate field did not exist in 2.2 It is created NULL on upgrade. I'll investigate for a way to fill it with something when upgrading 18:33 owen Are icons for CCODE working? If so, what am I missing? 18:00 atz but newer installs shouldn't see any of that 18:00 atz there was old code that seeded "0000-00-00" as default data 17:54 tim I was wrong. Mine is not exactly like pauls. Mine are all null. No 000-00-00 17:43 atz all (or conservatively, almost all) of the "0000-00-00" code should be deprecated by now 17:43 atz paul: you should probably replace 0000-00-00 with null in waitingdate field. 17:32 tim but I hope some day I'll get up to the status of really poor hacker. 17:32 tim paul: My reserves table has the same problem as yours. 17:30 tim owen: I missed one of your questions. Yes. /prog/en is in the paths in <head> for scripts, css and the shortcut icon. 17:13 paul the next question being to understand why I don't have a waitingdate when a reserve is filled... 17:13 paul then my problem is here. 17:12 owen Yes 17:11 paul owen : for reserves lines with priority=0 and found='W' do you have a waitingdate ? 17:00 paul mmm... sorry, for me it's null too 17:00 owen For me it's either NULL or has a valid date. I don't have any '0000-00-00' 16:59 paul yes, sorry 16:59 owen Is that the reserves table? 16:59 paul (for me it's always '0000-00-00') 16:59 paul could you tell me what is in waitingdate field ? 16:59 paul do you have an access to your DB directly ? 16:59 atz probably date formatting on the input 16:59 paul :\ 16:59 owen paul, I get some results 16:58 paul thus, all entries are removed from the list & the list is empty :\ 16:58 paul and waitingdate is empty for me 16:58 paul next unless ($num->{'waitingdate'} && $num->{'waitingdate'} ne '0000-00-00'); 16:58 paul waitingreserves.pl, line 123 reads : 16:57 paul I'm wondering if it's my DB, the update process, or a true bug. 16:57 paul I think it's due to a date handling problem. 16:57 paul for me it's always empty, even if it should not be. 16:57 paul could anyone test circ/waitingreserves.pl. 16:42 tim If I click on Limit to currently available items I get no rusults. 16:41 tim No item status is displayed in the search results. Is that still missing or is it just my install? 16:39 tim RequestOnOpac is set to ON. noOPACUserLogin is set to OFF. 16:35 hdl I will look at that... If i have time. 16:34 hdl gmcharlt_: brilliant. 16:34 gmcharlt_ hdl: subfield is hard-coded in zebra config - not sure if a SUppress index is defined in the Unimarc config by default or not 16:33 gmcharlt_ also, note that feature is not fully integrated - syspref is not in install scripts, e.g. 16:33 hdl 942$n ? 16:33 hdl is it hard coded ? 16:33 gmcharlt_ hdl: it isn't linked to any 16:33 hdl 942$n is linked to which item field ? 16:32 atz gmcharlt_: thx, kindly 16:31 gmcharlt_ atz: there's an OPAC suppression - implemented by setting 942$n to 1 in a bib, which is indexed in the 'Suppres' index in zebra. opac-search.pl then adds the 'and not suppress=1' to searches if an OpacSuppression syspref is ON 16:26 tim I found noOPACholds and it's set to OFF. 16:26 tim I'll need to find the preferences. 16:24 owen We need to hide the label if all three are off. 16:24 owen Those might be turned off in your system preferences? 16:23 owen That might contain "place hold," "save to lists" and/or "add to cart" 16:22 tim I read where that hasn't settled. It just looks like something should be displaying there and it's blank. Actions is also blank. I don't even know what that is for. 16:21 owen ...not that that helps explain why your custom set of templates isn't working properly 16:18 owen If you're working with a new set of templates just for that, I'd advise you to wait 16:18 owen The call number display question is one that is still open. I think it must be resolved before the official release 16:16 tim I wanted the call number displayed. I'd like itemnumber displayed but understand why that might not be a good idea, but nothing is getting displayed there now. I'd like to find out why. 16:15 owen When you view the source of an opac page, do you see the /prog/en/ path or your custom template path for things like stylesheets in the <head>? 16:14 tim owen: I'm testing 3.0. Did a git update yesterday. 16:13 tim owen: some things aren't displaying and I get no errors in the logs, so I was marking spots on the templates to make sure those parts are getting displayed. 16:08 owen You have a customer that has a similar requirement? 16:08 owen we have an authorized value called "suppress" which can be applied to a biblio. That hides the biblio from OPAC results 16:07 atz I'm guessing not, mainly b/c I don't see anything in the biblio table that could record "hiddenness" 16:06 owen atz, Liblime worked up something for NPL's dev_week install, I don't know if that has made it into 3.0 16:02 atz is there currently a mechanism that hides a biblio record from OPAC display/indexing? 16:02 atz i know koha has ways of hiding items from the opac, marking them notforloan, or whatever 16:00 owen tim: switching opac themes seems to be working for me. You're testing 3.0, right? 15:52 owen Once you start down the path of template customizations you're looking at future upgrade problems. 15:51 owen tim, I'm curious what kind of changes are you making? 15:50 tim I thought maybe it was a permissions problem. I just checked and they're ok. 15:49 hdl owen : can you answer tim ? 15:49 hdl np : it is not straight-forward. 15:48 nengard thanks hdl 15:48 tim Then I tried making a change in prog and it was updated on the opac. Does anyone know why the systempreference isn't setting the opac to use the new directory? 15:47 hdl which changes ? 15:47 tim I copied the prog directory to a new one to make changes to the opac templates and set the opacthemes system preference to the new directory, but the changes I make there don't make a difference. 15:42 hdl check it in 15:42 nengard on koha/circ/transferstoreceive.pl there is nothing in the action column ... how do i actually mark the item as transferred 15:00 nengard k 14:58 owen I'm fixing it now 14:58 nengard owen should i report the language issue - or are you doing that with your redesign? 14:55 nengard owen as for the bullets - i'm up for anything that makes it more usable ... I personally don't know where else to put them .... 14:54 nengard good catch 14:54 nengard owen i think it should be late orders 14:53 owen I see we've got some terminology inconsistency here... Is "late issues" correct rather than "late orders" ? 14:50 owen I'm concerned that we have those bulleted links on that page because we can't come up with a better way to organize those links 14:50 nengard i do have to update my screenshots for overdues :) 14:50 nengard and i do like the way it looks ... i'm just concerned that the bullets look out of place on the lateorders page 14:50 owen True :) 14:49 nengard owen overdue.pl doesn't have menu items though .... 14:49 nengard okay 14:49 nengard owen - okey dokey - which page? I haven't seen one yet and may have to update some screenshots 14:49 owen /circ/overdue.pl, for instance 14:48 owen Hmmm.. I see. But I disagree. Other pages use the left-hand area for filters as well 14:47 nengard owen email sent to gmail 14:44 nengard k - hang on 14:43 nengard you might want to have the bullets up where the filters are - just to be consisten from page to page - and maybe move the filter and list over to the left 14:43 owen Please 14:43 nengard only one comment 14:43 nengard owen you are awesome!!!! 14:42 owen nengard: http://zivotdesign.com/examples/lateorders.gif 14:42 atz so we can eventually kill off all the dumb parts of internal code that preprocess loops to add counters, "highlight" or "toggle" variables, etc. 14:40 owen Huh, interesting 14:39 atz owen: btw, remember when we tried to use H:T:P built-in loop variables (like counters, even/odd indicators, etc.) and it didn't work? I've got a patch that fixes that. The switch for that has to get passed to the template constructor (not as a template param). 14:37 nengard it's coming from Tools > Notices 14:36 nengard owen - yes 14:36 owen Oh...That lets you select which letter to use when submitting a claim? 14:35 owen What is the purpose of the 'acquisition claim' dropdown? 14:34 owen http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/attachment.cgi?id=255&action=view 14:31 owen Okay 14:30 hdl yes. 14:29 owen Would my vendors not appear in the filter form if I don't have any late orders? 14:28 hdl *nod* 14:28 owen So whitespace doesn't matter to jquery 14:28 owen I believe it's about the number of rows in the table 14:28 hdl We could write HTML table markup on one line. 14:28 hdl owen : about jquery : is this only a problem of line counts ? 14:26 gmcharlt_ heck, even_internet_connection_problems-- 14:26 gmcharlt_ odd_internet_connection_problems-- 14:22 hdl owen : I am working on that csv problem 14:13 nengard owen - sorry got distracted - i agree with atz it should show up no matter what because there may be results later 14:07 atz cool, thx 14:07 owen atz, intranet-tmpl/prog/img/approve.gif 14:05 atz owen: do we have something like a green checkmark (OK indicator) icon? 14:02 atz seems like the *most* valid use of RSS 14:02 owen atz, that's what I was thinking 14:01 atz in case you want to know when they finally get something that matches the query 14:01 atz owen: yeah 14:00 owen That should appear even if there are no results, dont you think? 13:59 owen I'm just thinking about the RSS icon on the search results page 13:59 nengard hiya owen 13:59 owen nengard? 13:55 owen Should I file a bug report about not being able to download a CSV of overdues? Or should I be checking for a problem on my system? 13:33 hdl on the way 13:32 gmcharlt hdl: got it. if it's not too huge, could you send me a mysqldump of the 2.2.9 DB you were testing? 13:32 hdl gmcharlt: mail sent to report some errors from upgrade script. 13:31 paul hi gmcharlt_ 13:31 gmcharlt_ greetings #koha 13:27 owen Hmmm... Downloading a CSV file of overdues isn't working for me: "impossible d'ouvrir le fichier de relances at ../misc/cronjobs/overduenotices-csv.pl line 81" 13:19 paul - let the user clic to "display" or "upload" 13:18 paul - display the page without any result 13:18 paul maybe : 13:18 paul so the CSV is the most important button I think ;-) 13:18 paul owen: right. In fact, some/many/most libraries will use this page to upload the CSV for mailing ppl 13:18 hdl owen it is likely to be. 13:18 owen For instance: paged results and a link for a full printable version? 13:17 owen We could. We should also think about whether there is a better way to present this page if there will always be thousands of results 13:17 hdl It is a quick fix. 13:16 paul couldn't we just remove jquery for this script ? 13:05 owen Thanks 13:04 hdl owen : sent 13:01 owen And I suspect it also depends on the computer the browser is installed on, and available memory at the time of execution 13:00 paul so it really seems it's a javascript/firefox problem 13:00 paul owen & hdl : an interesting point is that is works with Opera. 13:00 hdl *nods* 13:00 owen Could you save the HTML of your huge overdues page and send it to me for testing? 12:59 owen It's definitely not designed for really huge datasets 12:59 owen It's just a matter of the time it takes for the javascript engine to process all that data. 12:59 hdl sorry to catch you up. 12:58 owen Hi hdl. I'm just getting caught up after being out of the office for a couple of days. I'm just now reading about that in your bug report 12:58 hdl owen : do you know of jquery problems with large dataset management ? 12:57 hdl hi owen 12:57 owen Hi #koha