Time Nick Message
11:44 lloyd productive meeting last night?
11:05 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: rangi n=chris@203-118-134-114.netspace.net.nz
23:55 bess okay, bye, and thanks again
23:55 chris thank, have a good evening, and cya another time :)
23:55 bess have a good day, then!
23:55 chris ahhh
23:55 bess stayed late at work
23:55 bess home
23:55 bess I'm grouchy b/c I missed dinner and it's getting too dark to ride hom
23:55 chris i have to spend time merging in changes to a clients repository :)
23:55 bess Ha!
23:55 chris ahh its 11.54am here
23:54 bess okay, I will
23:54 chris cc me in if you want, i wouldnt mind knowing the answer :)
23:54 bess Go spend time w/ your baby. :)
23:54 bess Thank you for taking the time, I really appreaciate it
23:54 chris cool
23:54 bess I'll email Josh and see if he can help me
23:54 bess that's okay, you've been a huge help
23:54 chris might have to ask kados
23:54 chris ah well im afraid im stumped
23:53 chris hmm nope those all look right
23:53 chris back
23:53 bess production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$intranetport/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl
23:53 bess production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$opacport/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl
23:53 bess production/cvsrepo/koha_dev_week/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$intranetport/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl
23:52 bess production/cvsrepo/koha_dev_week/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$opacport/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl
23:52 bess production/intranet/cgi-bin/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$intranetport/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl
23:52 bess production/intranet/cgi-bin/misc/Install.pm: Redirect permanent index.html http://$servername\:$opacport/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl
23:52 bess ok
23:52 bess nothing that looks like our culprit:
23:52 chris brb, crying son, just checking if my wife needs a hand
23:51 chris grep -r "Redirect" *
23:51 bess ok
23:51 chris cd /koha/
23:51 bess okay
23:51 chris lets try our grep
23:51 chris ok theres some madness going on with this redirect
23:51 chris thats right
23:50 bess cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/opac
23:50 bess pwd = /koha/production/opac
23:50 bess Only now it tcan't find it
23:50 bess the install.pl again!
23:50 bess now it's redirecting to The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server.
23:50 chris it wont stick?
23:49 bess dammitt!!
23:48 bess hang on
23:48 bess I could have sworn I changed it
23:48 chris ah ha
23:48 bess cgi-bin didn't get the symlink created
23:48 chris then our symlink is wrong
23:48 chris if its not there
23:48 chris ls /koha/production/opac/cgi-bin
23:48 bess let's double check those sym links I made
23:48 chris hmm
23:47 bess The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl was not found on this server.
23:47 chris (we have a missing redirect there, and one we dont want in the intranet :))
23:47 chris lab3.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl
23:46 bess If I click on opac.html I get The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/opac-main.pl was not found on this server.
23:46 chris ahh try
23:46 bess if I click on index.html I get a 404
23:46 bess I get a list of files... favicon.ico, index.html, intranet-tmpl, intranet.html
23:45 chris heh
23:45 bess but a different error. :)
23:45 bess well, not yet
23:45 chris we have opac? yay
23:45 bess hooray!
23:44 chris (its not quite the 8 minutes it takes me to install 2.2 :)
23:44 bess restarting
23:44 bess okay
23:44 chris for the first virtual host
23:44 chris <VirtualHost lab3.betech.virginia.edu:80>
23:43 chris to
23:43 chris <VirtualHost *:80>
23:43 bess okay
23:43 chris lets try changing
23:43 chris hmm
23:43 bess it already is lab3
23:43 chris (first one)
23:43 chris the opac one
23:42 bess wait, change which ServerName?
23:42 chris and restart apache, hopefully we get the opac up
23:41 chris and if we change ServerName to lab3. ...
23:41 chris cool
23:41 bess yes, that's all of them
23:41 chris thats all of them eh?
23:40 chris opac/htdocs ->/koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/koha-tmpl/
23:40 chris opac/cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/opac/
23:40 chris sorry i lie,
23:39 chris same with htdocs
23:39 chris opac/cgi-bin goes to the same place as intranet/cgi-bin
23:39 bess oh, okay that's fine, we can leave it for later
23:39 chris ahh i was leaving the opac until we get the intranet going .. but yep we can do it now we will have to change the servername to get the opac to work too
23:38 bess where do the sym links in /koha/production/opac go?
23:38 bess wait, I will, but I want to fix one thing at a time
23:38 chris see if we can find this redirect
23:38 chris grep -r "Redirect" *
23:38 chris cd /koha/
23:38 bess so where do the files in /koha/production/opac point to?
23:37 chris lets go
23:37 chris yep for sure
23:37 bess I mean, I don't know if this solved our particular problem, but it's something to fix
23:37 chris ah yep, the opac isnt going yet, (ie we end up at that apache default page)
23:37 bess which doesn't exist
23:37 bess cgi-bin -> ../rel_3_0/koha/opac
23:36 bess we updated the symlinks for the intranet, but not for the opac
23:36 bess I found a problem!
23:36 bess wait!
23:36 chris lets try a brute force :)
23:35 chris i wonder where the redirect is coming from
23:35 chris hmm
23:35 bess ok, thanks. :)
23:35 chris we'll give it 10 more mins :)
23:35 bess no .htaccess file there
23:34 bess You're being so helpful, but I worry that I'm taking up all of your time
23:34 chris how bout /koha/production/intranet/htdocs ?
23:34 bess should I bug Kados about this?
23:34 chris ok
23:34 bess no, only the ErrorDocument lines
23:33 chris any Redirect ones?
23:33 chris *nod*
23:33 bess several ErrorDocument declarations
23:33 bess ErrorDocument 400 /cgi-bin/koha/koha-tmpl/errors/400.pl
23:33 bess yes
23:33 chris is there a .htaccess file in /koha/production/intranet/cgi-bin ?
23:32 chris hmm doesnt seem to be any redirects in there
23:31 bess want me to send you the updated one?
23:31 chris lemme look at that config again
23:31 chris that is weird
23:30 bess it redirects to the same place! weird.
23:30 bess and if I go to http://koha.betech.virginia.edu it takes me there too
23:30 chris ok does http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/mainpage.pl work?
23:30 bess but then it reloaded the page automatically and we were back at http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=3
23:29 chris :)
23:29 bess it did
23:29 chris hmmm i thought it said we were finished
23:29 bess apache config weirdness, you think?
23:29 bess it redirects me to http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=3
23:29 bess no
23:28 chris does the koha. one get you into the intranet/librarian interface?
23:28 chris in the opac
23:28 chris ah we may have to do some more apache config trickery maybe put that as the servername
23:27 bess apache default
23:27 bess which just says: It works!
23:27 bess lab3.betech.virginia.edu redirects me to http://lab3.betech.virginia.edu/apache2-default/
23:26 chris or lab3.
23:26 chris i wonder what happens when you hit http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/
23:26 chris yippy skippy
23:26 bess whatever that means. :)
23:25 bess Congratulations, Installation complete
23:25 chris ahh
23:25 bess everything worked except importing authorities
23:23 chris your guess is as good as mine a this point :)
23:22 bess hope that's okay
23:22 bess i'm installing all the optional stuff...
23:21 bess :)
23:21 bess Database tables created
23:20 bess my $str = qx(mysql -h $info{hostname} -P 3306 -u $info{user} -p$info{password} $info{dbname} <$filename 2>&1);
23:19 chris sure lets try that :)
23:19 bess can I just hack it and put in 3306?
23:19 bess no
23:17 chris /production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/koha.xml
23:17 bess where would that be?
23:16 chris if so, we can copy and paste it ,.. and see if that fixes it
23:16 bess hang on
23:16 chris and if we look at the koha.xml in our cvs repo .. is there one there?
23:16 chris right
23:16 bess there's no place to set port in the koha.xml file
23:15 chris yep
23:15 bess which would throw that error
23:15 bess That would make that line read as -P -u username
23:15 chris good spotting
23:15 chris yeah
23:15 bess I bet there is no value for port
23:15 bess my $str = qx(mysql -h $info{hostname} -P $info{port} -u $info{user} -p$info{password} $info{dbname} <$filename 2>&1);
23:15 chris yep
23:13 bess that should be right
23:13 chris k
23:13 bess yes. localhost
23:12 bess hang on
23:12 chris is there a hostname line?
23:12 bess yes?
23:12 chris in ur koha-production.xml file
23:11 chris ok
23:11 bess oh
23:10 chris use of uniinitialzed value is always a warn
23:10 bess how do you know it's a warn?
23:10 chris ill have a quick look
23:10 chris darn
23:10 bess that's the only error
23:10 chris ahh thats a warn, we can ignore that one
23:09 bess in/installer/install.pl line 339., referer: http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=3
23:09 bess Use of uninitialized value in concatenation (.) or string at /koha/production/intranet/cgi
23:09 chris and maybe fix, then a cvs update should sort you out
23:09 chris if it does and it has a linenumber i can go inspect the code
23:08 chris does the error log tell you anything
23:08 bess so this must be happening in install.pl, right?
23:08 chris heh
23:08 bess "Please contact your system administrator" <--- so helpful! :)
23:08 chris ahh that looks like a bug in the installer
23:08 bess mysql: Error while setting value '-u' to 'port'
23:08 bess Unknown suffix '-' used for variable 'port' (value '-u')
23:07 chris i havent done a 3.0 install .. so from here is all new to me
23:07 bess The following error occcurred while importing the database structure:
23:07 bess dammit!!
23:07 chris :)
23:07 bess creating database tables (this is so exciting to get this far!)
23:07 chris cool
23:07 bess yes
23:07 chris does that work?
23:06 bess kohaadmin / PASSWORD
23:06 bess yes, that's the one
23:06 chris actually when you did this step
23:06 chris hmm is there another one further down
23:06 bess but it doesn't work
23:06 bess right?
23:06 bess kohaadmin / K0h4R0ck$
23:05 chris koha-production.xml in there
23:05 bess okay, hang on
23:05 chris i there i think
23:05 chris ahh /koha/etc/
23:04 bess yes?
23:04 bess so I'm looking at /production/cvsrepo/koha/misc/koha.xml
23:04 bess oh wait
23:03 bess hang on...
23:03 bess I didn't change it
23:03 chris and used when you made your database
23:03 chris ahh whatever you set up in your koha.xml
23:03 bess Is it the mysql?
23:03 bess What's the login / pass?
23:03 bess I don't know, I haven't run the installer yet.
23:03 chris yeah we can ignore that i think
23:02 bess Forcing reload of web server (apache2)...[Mon Jun 18 10:58:57 2007] [warn] NameVirtualHost *:0 has no VirtualHosts
23:02 chris cool, and now its happy? koha->intranet lab3->opac ?
23:02 bess but look, it gives a warning when you restart apache:
23:02 bess because that's how our other apache configs are setup
23:02 bess I changed it to NameVirtualHost *:80
23:01 bess that's what it should say
23:01 bess NameVirtualHost *
23:01 chris yay
23:01 bess Yes, I broke the top part of the file, and when I changed it back it started working!
23:01 chris is there any other error in the main apache2 error log?
23:01 bess oh wait!
23:01 bess How should the top part of the file be?
23:01 chris ok
23:00 chris hmm
23:00 bess http://koha.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl
23:00 chris still defaulting to the opac?
23:00 bess The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server.
23:00 bess same error
23:00 bess dammit
22:59 chris lab3.betech.virginia.edu = opac
22:59 chris koha.betech.virginia.edu = intranet
22:59 chris and in theory
22:59 bess restarting...
22:59 chris and restart apache
22:59 bess is that right?
22:59 chris yep
22:59 bess for the intranet
22:59 bess ServerName koha.betech.virginia.edu
22:59 chris ssh dewey
22:58 dewey chris: that doesn't look right
22:58 chris change the productionintranet to be koha.betech.virginia.edu
22:58 bess lab3.betech.virginia.edu = koha.betech.virginia.edu
22:58 chris sure lets try that
22:58 chris then you can change the servernames
22:58 bess will that do?
22:58 bess koha.betech.virginia.edu
22:57 chris staff.lab3.betech.virginia.edu
22:57 bess Oh, I have an alias!
22:57 chris and
22:57 chris opac.lab3.betech.virginia.edu
22:57 chris to set up
22:57 chris now is it possible to get a nice person who looks after your dns is
22:57 bess I mean, we don't have anything called productionintranet registered w/ DNS
22:56 bess how should I change it?
22:56 chris yeah
22:56 bess I see that now
22:56 bess it says ServerName productionintranet
22:56 bess so how do I get to the other?
22:56 chris yeah that will take you to the opac
22:56 chris :)
22:56 bess I'm missing a vital concept, aren't i?
22:55 chris ah ha
22:55 bess the hostname of the server is lab3.betech.virginia.edu
22:55 bess I don't understand the question
22:55 chris the url you are hitting is productionintranet right?
22:55 bess but what about the second virtualhost?
22:54 chris ok .. so this looks ok to me
22:54 chris yeah its been done, but its not easy .. these are all things we have to overcome to get a nice public release
22:54 bess we run red hat here and boy was that a fiasco, trying to install this on red hat
22:54 bess I finally got the university to cough up a debian server
22:53 bess good point
22:53 chris koha wont be able to send you overdue notices :-)
22:53 bess it's on the way now
22:53 chris ahh bummer
22:53 bess I realized I can't send mail from the actual server
22:53 bess okay, it took me a second to get it sent off
22:51 chris :)
22:51 bess it's already on the way :)
22:51 chris and i can edit and send back?
22:51 chris might be easier
22:51 chris you could email me that file if you wanted
22:50 bess NameVirtualHost *:80
22:50 bess So, maybe I didn't do it right
22:50 bess well, I didn't know how to set them up.
22:50 chris one for opac one for intranet?
22:50 chris hmm do we have 2 virtualhosts
22:50 bess no, we have ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/koha/ "/koha/production/opac/cgi-bin/"
22:49 chris sorry the latter
22:49 bess in httpd.conf or in /koha/etc/koha-production-httpd.conf?
22:48 chris ?
22:48 chris ScriptAlias /cgi-bin/koha/ /koha/production/intranet/cgi-bin/
22:48 bess do you want the whole thing?
22:48 chris we have
22:48 chris ok and in our httpd.conf
22:48 bess I think maybe apache is cacheing something
22:48 bess yes
22:47 chris is there an installer dir there?
22:47 chris what does ls /koha/production/intranet/cgi-bin/ say ?
22:47 bess something is fishy
22:47 bess hang on...
22:46 chris hmm
22:46 bess The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server.
22:46 chris still the same error?
22:46 bess drat! no joy. :(
22:45 chris yep
22:45 bess 3.0 is the upcoming release, right?
22:45 chris our symlinks should all still be good
22:45 bess ok
22:45 chris (we will check out 3.0 this time)
22:45 chris cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha
22:45 bess ok
22:45 chris mv koha koha_dev_week
22:44 chris lets cd back to /koha/production/cvsrepo
22:44 bess ok
22:44 chris what is confusing me is saying Koha ZOOm but the instructions seem to be for 3.0 (which is the upcoming release ... ok i have a plan)
22:44 bess I wasn't sure how to setup the virtualhosts, so I just took a guess based on how my other server is set up.
22:44 chris no, its fine
22:43 bess could there be a problem w/ my httpd config?
22:43 chris heres what we can do
22:43 bess What URL should I go to?
22:43 bess I'm still not clear on the distinction
22:42 chris hmm i wonder if he did want you to install koha 3 .. not zoom
22:42 bess http://lab3.betech.virginia.edu/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl
22:42 bess The requested URL /cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl was not found on this server.
22:41 bess hmm... not yet
22:41 bess restarting....
22:41 chris we may have to restart apache
22:41 chris in theory .. it might be working now :)
22:40 bess yes
22:40 chris you got all the perl modules installed, and zebra up and running eh?
22:40 chris righto
22:40 bess okay, done
22:39 chris yep
22:39 chris -> /koha/prodcution/cvsrepo/koha/C4/
22:39 bess same thing, yes?
22:39 bess what about modules/C4?
22:39 chris now what i do here
22:38 bess done: cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha
22:38 chris cgi-bin -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/
22:38 bess done: htdocs -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/koha-tmpl
22:37 chris and our htdocs symlink should be htdocs -> /koha/production/cvsrepo/koha/koha-tmpl/
22:37 bess ok
22:37 chris lets go to /koha/production/intranet
22:37 bess ok, what next?
22:36 bess I've always wanted to go there
22:36 chris ok
22:36 chris wellington
22:36 bess cool.
22:36 chris yep
22:36 bess where are you? NZ?
22:36 chris much faster than over here to nz
22:36 bess yes, I'm at the uni. :)
22:36 chris speedy
22:36 bess okay, done
22:35 bess :)
22:35 chris our even
22:35 bess it's downloading
22:35 chris once thats done we can make or symlinks to the right places
22:35 chris thats the one
22:35 bess from /koha/production/cvsrepo?
22:35 chris in that directory
22:34 chris cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -r dev_week -P koha
22:34 bess how do I do that?
22:33 chris and we will then checkout the dev_week (which is koha zoom)
22:33 bess done
22:33 bess sure
22:33 chris can we do a rm -r koha (in /koha/production/cvsrepo/ )
22:32 bess ah
22:32 chris he has modified the instustions for koha 3.0 .. but not all the way
22:32 bess yes?
22:31 chris ahhh i do understand
22:31 chris is why cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -P koha
22:30 chris now what i dont understand is
22:30 chris yeah
22:30 bess so is installer
22:30 chris and thats our cvs checkout
22:30 bess that's one of my missing directories
22:30 bess hmmm... C4
22:30 bess y
22:30 chris in there is there a koha/ dir ?
22:29 bess ok
22:29 chris cd /koha/production/cvsrepo/
22:29 chris if we do
22:29 chris i think we can fix this
22:29 bess modules
22:28 chris ok
22:28 bess htdocs -> ../rel_3_0/koha/koha-tmpl
22:28 bess cgi-bin -> ../rel_3_0/koha/
22:28 chris and no htdocs?
22:28 chris there is a symlink to a non existing dir?
22:28 chris and in /koha/production/intranet
22:27 chris hmm
22:27 chris right
22:27 bess yes, /koha has backups bin cron etc log production testing and tmp
22:26 chris oh and log and etc
22:26 chris righto :)
22:26 bess trying to get my screen arranged so I can type and look at the text window
22:25 bess hang on..
22:25 chris which should have production/ testing/ bin and cron under it ?
22:25 bess yes
22:24 chris so you have a /koha dir
22:24 chris hmm
22:22 bess take your time
22:22 chris still reading :)
22:22 bess I'm back
22:20 bess brb
22:20 bess okay, thanks
22:20 chris right ill quickly read through them
22:19 chris cool
22:19 bess okay, I just sent them off
22:18 chris ta
22:17 bess hang on...
22:17 chris crc@liblime.com
22:17 bess I'll send them to you
22:17 bess What's your email?
22:17 bess so there is supposed to be stuff in that folder, yes?
22:17 chris id have to see the instructions
22:16 chris could be
22:16 bess maybe?
22:16 bess so did the CVS checkout not work completely?
22:16 chris yeah thats not gonna work :)
22:16 bess :)
22:16 chris thats helpful :)
22:16 bess which seems problematic to me.
22:15 bess but it links to an empty directory
22:15 bess there is a symlink
22:15 chris hmm
22:15 bess no
22:15 chris do joshuas instructions include setting up the symlinks?
22:15 bess and there is nothing in rel_3_0/koha
22:15 bess cgi-bin -> ../rel_3_0/koha/
22:15 chris ah ha
22:15 bess Or, to be more accurate...
22:14 bess And sure enough, they don't exist.
22:14 bess Warning: DocumentRoot [/koha/production/opac/htdocs] does not exist
22:14 bess Warning: DocumentRoot [/koha/production/intranet/htdocs] does not exist
22:14 chris fire away
22:14 bess okay, so, something weird...
22:14 chris yep
22:14 bess really? you heard that podcast. Cool?
22:14 chris righto
22:14 bess okay, so this is me trying to get it installed so I can report back to the soros foundation
22:14 chris i heard you talking with talis about it :)
22:13 chris sure do
22:13 chris but the code is all in cvs
22:13 bess Do you know about library-in-a-box?
22:13 chris hence no public release
22:13 bess See, I'm trying to get you funding to do that. :)
22:13 bess right.
22:13 chris we havent managed to build an easy to install release for koha zoom
22:13 bess I'm very behind on the project I'm working on
22:13 bess yes, but he sent them over a month ago
22:13 chris if kados sent them, id assume so :)
22:12 bess ah, okay, making more sense.
22:12 chris yep, so koha zoom is koha 2.2.x plus the Zebra plugin
22:12 bess are the installation instructions that come with it the right ones to use?
22:12 bess okay, so I'm trying to install koha zoom
22:12 chris koha zoom hasnt had a public release yet
22:12 bess wow, that's cool. :)
22:11 bess hi, chris!! Yes, I'm bess sadler
22:11 chris nope
22:11 bess so, is koha zoom the same thing as koha 2.2.6?
22:10 bess ah!
22:10 chris http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=installingzebraplugin226
22:10 chris dewey is a bot :)
22:10 chris the wiki ones are old
22:10 bess hmmm... that url doesn't work dewey
22:10 chris ahh kados sent you some ... those are probably better
22:10 dewey the url is, like, http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/
22:10 bess What is the url?
22:10 bess maybe I should try those
22:09 bess Is there a better set on the wiki?
22:09 bess I'm following the ones can came with the installation package that kados sent me.
22:09 chris on the wiki?
22:09 bess so, I'm following the installation instructions...
22:09 chris I may or may not be able to answer it :)
22:09 chris sure
22:08 chris there are some koha users too .. and people asleep :)
22:08 bess can I ask some koha zoom installation questions?
22:08 chris not everyone but a few of us are
22:08 bess is everyone koha developers or admins?
22:08 bess wow, there's quite a few people in here
22:07 bess hi!
22:07 chris heya bess
21:52 bureado kados:
20:32 toins_ bye
20:32 kados2 bye
20:32 kados2 and announce the next meeting
20:32 kados2 and mail to koha-devel
20:32 kados2 I'll write a summary
20:32 kados2 (but probably ok anyway, to keep meetings short)
20:32 kados2 it won't happen next time, I promise :-)
20:32 paul time to go to bed for frenchies
20:32 kados2 sorry, my travel plans were unexpected
20:32 paul you"re welcome
20:32 kados2 thanks everyone
20:32 kados2 ok, I have to go now
20:31 ryan toins_++
20:31 toins_ currently only saveToKoha22.pl works well
20:31 kados2 alng with toins help of course
20:31 thd toins_ it is actually much more efficient than the existing Koha record editor independent of experience
20:30 kados2 Chris plans to have it working and ready for production by the end of the summer
20:30 toins_ classify them on an 'finish reservoir' and 'unfinish reservoir'
20:30 toins_ edit records
20:30 toins_ its can searchs on multiple Z3950 server
20:30 kados2 it works well, except for saving :-)
20:29 toins_ what more ? Except as kados2 has certainly notify, it not work very well atm
20:29 toins_ it s a marc editor for advanced cataloger
20:28 ryan ++
20:28 paul july 2nd is OK for me
20:28 toins_ its tries to let the cataloger free to do what he wants
20:28 cm yep, good for ccfls folks too.
20:27 thd good for me
20:27 kados2 (so we can finish the agenda?)
20:27 kados2 (Monday, July 2nd)
20:27 toins_ opencataloger is a web based application written in XUL/Javascript for the client side and perl for server side
20:27 kados2 (maybe at the same time as toins is talking, everyone can say if this is a good time to meet in two weeks from now)
20:26 toins_ humm....
20:26 kados2 maybe toins can talk about it briefly?
20:26 kados2 toins has already done a ton of work on this
20:25 kados2 there's a mailing list too
20:25 thd I have a concern that the design of opencataloger not dilute the quality and usability of the plugins
20:25 kados2 and a new developer has joined the effort, it's the Google Summer of Code programmer Chris Catalfo
20:24 kados2 that's the project paul and toins created
20:24 kados2 https://gna.org/projects/opencataloger
20:23 russel cos those will require lots of discussion
20:23 kados2 russel: sounds good
20:23 tumer seconded
20:23 russel move copyright and positions to next meeting
20:23 kados2 hehe
20:23 russel you prolly have enough time for one :-) go with OpenCataloger would be my pick
20:22 kados2 OpenCataloger
20:22 kados2 Open Positions in the Community
20:22 kados2 so we have two items left:
20:22 kados2 I think we should skip 'improving koha.org' because IIRC tina was going to show something and it's not ready yet
20:22 thd kados2 what else is on the agenda aside from copyright?
20:22 kados2 I have only 10 minutes now
20:21 thd any one of those parties may be able to make a claim on the whole work
20:21 kados2 ryan: that's my thinking lately too
20:21 ryan i think the code should reference an external document.
20:20 thd there is a big problem with that form of notice
20:20 paul sounds fair
20:20 paul # Copyright 2004-2007 LibLime
20:20 paul # Copyright 2002-2007 Paul Poulain
20:20 paul # Copyright 2000-2007 Katipo Communications
20:20 paul Ouch. Surely that could be replaced by the shorter:
20:19 kados2 everyone had a different idea IIRC
20:19 kados2 the koha-dev thread had some ideas, but no conclusions :-)
20:19 paul I think the koha-dev thread was clear.
20:19 kados2 perhaps we will skip 'copyright conventions' and leave that for the next meeting when slef is here
20:18 ryan problem is there's no /who
20:18 kados2 ok, I'm going out of order
20:18 kados2 paul: yes
20:18 toins_ hehe
20:18 kados2 hi toins at freenode :-)
20:18 paul ok. so any of those both chanel are equivalent ?
20:18 [K] *** join #koha@FreeNode: toins n=toins@AMarseille-251-1-59-126.w83-197.abo.wanadoo.fr
20:17 kados2 and it works fine
20:17 kados2 we tested it last week
20:17 kados2 a bot can relay messages from irc.freenode.net #koha to irc.katipo.co.nz #koha and back
20:17 paul 'relay' ???
20:17 kados2 we don't need to move the IRC channel, we can 'relay' to freenode to increase visibility
20:16 kados2 to touch on some points:
20:16 kados2 and I have a meeting in 15 minutes :(
20:16 kados2 but anyway, this is off track
20:16 kados2 and it's worked quite well for them
20:15 kados2 they have a foundation
20:15 kados2 I've been looking at plone as a model: plone.org
20:15 kados2 I'm not sure they are the same as a 'koha software foundation'
20:15 kados2 I still think, those are just 'users groups'
20:15 paul yes, i've seen the announce
20:15 kados2 yep
20:15 kados2 paul: to discuss a US one
20:15 paul the "we need to find some libraries who can directly devote staff time to koha IMO" reminds me this...
20:14 kados2 paul: johnb has organized a meeting at ALA this year (in about a week)
20:14 kados2 wow, great paul!
20:14 paul search "kohala"
20:14 paul www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/
20:13 paul www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr
20:13 paul french koha NPO exist !!!
20:13 paul i've forgotten a french news !!!
20:13 sanspach russel: exactly --the key is coordinating things so that their internal work can be made to work for testing and vice versa
20:13 thd the request will always sound better coming from a foundation
20:12 thd kados2: I mean as compared to being asked by a foundation
20:12 kados2 thd: libraries want to pay as little as possible to us, so they just pay for the specific services we provide, like hosting, data migration, development
20:12 kados2 thd: because we don't get paid for things related to the project
20:11 russel well they probably are devoting a lot of time to koha, but internally
20:11 kados2 thd: not really
20:11 thd kados2: the problem is that having you library vendor ask for volunteers is lack asking to be payed twice for support
20:11 kados2 we need to find some libraries who can directly devote staff time to koha IMO
20:10 kados2 people who work for libraries
20:10 kados2 in the development process
20:10 kados2 is to get more users involved
20:10 kados2 what we need I think
20:09 kados2 to the topic at hand
20:09 kados2 ok, getting back
20:09 kados2 thd: 2.0.x had some arch repos in fact
20:09 kados2 thd: we looked at arch a while back
20:08 thd kados2: GnuArch is the Savannah supported distributed version control system of which I was thinking as comparable maybe more featurefull than git
20:08 cm paul: i'll do it if noone else wants to. ;)
20:08 kados2 right
20:07 paul (irma will do at least a part of the job it seems)
20:07 paul for example, i've written a 33 pages doc about all koha 3.0 new features... waiting for translation...
20:07 ryan or is that too restrictive ?
20:07 ryan a defined process for public review of specs before implementation ?
20:07 russel well i have been talking to Irma in sydney, she has offered to help translate this type of thing
20:07 kados2 hehe
20:07 paul a second part of the problem is that our customers want answers in french, and you don't speak french very well :-D
20:06 kados2 rusel: exactly
20:06 kados2 Day even
20:06 kados2 esp with the new Koha Project Jay
20:06 russel i think it is getting to the stage where we all need to make the time
20:06 kados2 but I can say, that is changing at LibLime
20:06 kados2 because we are too busy with our own specifications :-)
20:06 kados2 part of the problem is, until now, many of the core devs haven't had time to read other people's specifications
20:05 kados2 2. release specifications
20:05 paul anyway, we should agree on what is a "major addition" ;-)
20:05 russel paul: that is a good policy
20:05 kados2 1. announce the new feature
20:05 kados2 so maybe we need to:
20:05 paul speaking of major additions, I share before writing them.
20:04 russel or just before you commit it?
20:04 kados2 paul: we have announced major features, but we haven't really been good about defining them ahead of time
20:04 tumer paul you war that you added not adding?
20:04 russel when you start working on it
20:04 russel well when do you give the warning?
20:04 paul I don't remember having added a major feature without warning on koha-dev before. So it's not a big job ;-)
20:04 cm perhaps use a centralized tasklist on the wiki or somesuch?
20:04 kados2 russel: I completely agree
20:03 russel i dont think we do enough of that is my concern
20:03 russel tumer++
20:03 kados2 russel: I think tumer's right, we need to be better about declaring our intentions on the koha-devel channel
20:03 tumer 3. share work
20:03 tumer 2. discuss with other interested parties
20:03 thd I think there is a namespace concern if they may not be compatible
20:03 russel or are we just going to have to reconcile that there will be duplicated effort from time to time?
20:03 tumer 1. declare your intention of developing a module
20:02 kados2 russel: depends on what you mean by 'manage'
20:02 russel how do we manage when two sets of developers are working on similar features at the same time?
20:01 thd s/libraries/library's/
20:01 russel bigger picture
20:01 russel ok so step back from ACQ for a sec
20:01 paul so, definetly : NO speaking of SAN-OP plans.
20:01 thd paul: everything you might expect to manage all parts of a libraries budget control and payments
20:01 paul maybe/probably
20:01 johnb We had this conversation in France. Due to everyones accounting quirks wouldn't it be best to make ACQ a plugin?
20:00 paul because in france, public structure accounting software are very specific, proprietary, expensive, user-unfriendly, ...
20:00 kados2 ryan: yea
20:00 ryan so an acqisitions module can be 'installed' into koha
20:00 paul (maybe you can explain what you call "full accounting system") ?
20:00 thd I have a suggestion for full accounting
20:00 ryan i like the idea of modularizing the modules.
20:00 kados2 I think #2 is the only way for acquisitions
19:59 paul not for us
19:59 kados2 thd: yes, ours is
19:59 thd Is either looking for a full accounting system?
19:59 kados2 yep
19:59 paul 2 = would be a shame
19:59 paul 1 = maybe, but will require a big coordination, and SAN-OP want something live for 2008, jan
19:58 kados2 2. have two comletely different acquisitions modules
19:58 kados2 1. examine each other's specifications, and decide who will work on what, etc.
19:58 kados2 we could:
19:57 paul yes, you already told me.
19:57 kados2 paul: some news: we have a large academic library that we have worked with to define some new acquisitions features
19:57 paul right.
19:57 kados2 snap
19:57 kados2 acquisitions is a good example
19:57 russel i am thinking of ACQ which everyone seems to want to have a crack at
19:57 kados2 russel: good question
19:56 russel and how will we handle when two teams are working on a similar feature at the same time?
19:56 kados2 and merged when they are ready
19:56 kados2 they can be created on a branch
19:56 kados2 yes :-)
19:56 paul (git will help us will be the answer i think ;-) )
19:56 paul how will we handle major new features that could not be done in just 6 months ?
19:55 paul about 2. :
19:55 kados2 wow, very productive meeting :-)
19:55 kados2 3. LL will commit to default templates, and we will not have a 2.4, but stay with 2.2
19:55 kados2 2. time-based releases: every two months, alpha, beta, stable
19:55 paul (even if I'll have to investigate & test your additions anyway, for my customers ;-) )
19:55 kados2 1. moving to git
19:54 kados2 so we have decided:
19:54 kados2 great
19:54 paul kados2 : yes, i'm OK.
19:54 paul thd : right. I tried to port mySQL5.0 to 2.2.x, I may have missed some, but a large part of the stuff should be OK
19:54 kados2 paul: is that OK?
19:54 kados2 than to have two branches and another release to manage
19:54 kados2 to get them working with both templates
19:53 kados2 it will be less work in the long run
19:53 thd paul: what problems do you have in France with 2.4?
19:53 kados2 I will have LL team add to default then
19:53 kados2 ok
19:53 thd paul: now that Etch is stable I think that 2.2 should have MySQL 5 support
19:53 kados2 right
19:53 paul so, in france, I have problems with this branch.
19:52 paul you're right. except your additions have been done on npl templates, and we couldn't test them deeply, even if I asked toins to port them to default templates)
19:52 kados2 (which is necessary even for 2.2, as many people have trouble with 2.2 because they have mysql 5)
19:52 kados2 (liblime editions I think also include mysql 5 support by the way)
19:51 kados2 3.0 branch, based on head
19:51 kados2 2.2 branch, based on 2.2+liblime additions
19:51 kados2 I would prefer only two:
19:51 kados2 hmmm
19:51 paul - 3.0 branch, based on head.
19:50 paul - 2.4 branch, based on 2.2+liblime additions (serials, barcode printing, and some others)
19:50 paul - 2.2 branch, strictly bugfixes
19:50 paul what I wanted to propose was to have :
19:50 thd paul: I mean how would issuing a bug fix release be any different?
19:49 kados2 right
19:49 paul right. It is harder because, as 3.0 was long to come, some ppl have added feature to rel_2_2 ...
19:49 kados2 paul: (as you know for 2.2, this is quite hard )
19:49 paul thd : ???
19:49 kados2 paul (git will make this easier)
19:48 thd paul: is not issuing a new release the same as happens now?
19:48 kados2 with only the bug fix
19:48 kados2 so we do 2.2.10b
19:48 kados2 then, a bug is found
19:48 kados2 so we have say 2.2.10
19:48 kados2 paul, yes public releases
19:48 paul + are you speaking of public releases ?
19:48 kados2 I think that we release the stable version with the bug fix
19:47 kados2 stable - tested, in production at some places
19:47 paul what if a bug appears in a sept-stable version, that is discovered in, say, november ?
19:47 kados2 beta - most bugs fixed, we think it's stable, please test
19:47 kados2 alpha - maybe some bugs, please test
19:47 kados2 three types of releases
19:47 kados2 I am proposing a change in the release theory, yes
19:46 kados2 and get feedback, and then a stable in sept
19:46 thd what does time based release mean exactly?
19:46 kados2 (in July)
19:46 paul so your proposal is to completly change our release theory ?
19:46 kados2 but we can do a beta now
19:45 kados2 until now, with 3.0 it has ben impossible, because it wasn't stable at all
19:45 paul feature based release : "it will be able when those features will be included, whatever the date"
19:45 kados2 etc.
19:45 kados2 Mar - Stable
19:45 kados2 Jan - beta
19:45 kados2 Nov - Alpha
19:45 kados2 Sept - Stable
19:45 kados2 July - Beta
19:45 kados2 so a new release every two months
19:44 paul we say "it will be available at this date, we will see with what features"
19:44 kados2 alpha, beta, stable
19:44 kados2 three types of releases
19:44 tumer time-based?
19:44 kados2 the proposal is release 6 times a year
19:44 paul time based releases ? I fully agree with this idea...
19:44 tumer seconded
19:44 kados2 2nd is that I propose to move to time-based releases, starting immediately
19:43 kados2 1st item is that I propose we move to git :-)
19:43 kados2 ok, so I have another item under 'Koha 3.0 release plan'
19:43 ryan you will like it :)
19:43 ryan it's very easy to use
19:43 ryan yes
19:43 paul a part of git itself you mean ?
19:43 paul part of git proper ???
19:42 ryan cogito has largely become a part of git proper
19:42 kados2 (not me, but I think other LLers have played with it)
19:42 paul do you also use cogito & other git related tools ?
19:42 kados2 and chris will be writing a mail soon explaining the process
19:42 paul none from me (except that I hope we will find enough time to learn git & other git tools ...)
19:42 kados2 we will plan this soon
19:41 kados2 ok, so if there are no objections
19:41 kados2 chris has been planning how it should work, and considering as well how each library/company will want their own repo
19:41 kados2 you can also 'push' to a shared repository
19:40 paul I prefer an automatic email, to be sure not to forget ;-)
19:40 ryan then everyone will pull changes to their repos
19:40 ryan a commit will generate an email, or the committer might post to koha-devel
19:39 paul when someone want to tell ppl that something is available on it's repository ?
19:39 paul what is a "commit" under git ?
19:39 paul my other question was about how to have an easy to access source code. I think this is the answer ;-)
19:39 kados2 and we can still have an email list for commits
19:38 kados2 it has better views than savannah currently has
19:38 kados2 we will also still have a web version history
19:38 paul ryan: ok, understood, thx
19:38 ryan paul: right, your repo will be master for rel_2_2 , and kados' for head
19:38 kados2 thd: http://git.or.cz/
19:37 kados2 thd I don't know what that is
19:37 thd kados2: there is a gnu CVS version control system which starts with an ''a'. How does git differ?
19:37 paul ?
19:37 paul with a cvs branch being managed by 1 git local repository (not sure to use the correct terms...)
19:36 kados2 so for people that only want to use CVS, it's OK
19:36 paul right, but they synch their version with the HEAD one
19:36 kados2 and we can have a CVS front-end
19:36 paul anyway, if I have directions to help me start, I'm OK to move.
19:36 kados2 paul: yes, but they don't write much code, do they?
19:35 paul so, the SAN-OP is the only one missing unless i'm missing someone
19:35 kados2 paul: chris can tell us best
19:35 kados2 thd: git is what the linux kernel uses for version control
19:35 kados2 how to decide: I think it's all about concensus among the people who write code in CVS
19:35 thd kados2: how does git differ from the GNU project which starts with an 'a'
19:35 paul how will that work (the transition) ?
19:34 kados2 along with documentation on how to use the new setup
19:34 kados2 the CVS=>git transition can be handled by ryan, chris and I
19:34 kados2 I was hoping we could decide today to switch
19:34 kados2 s
19:34 kados2 good question
19:33 paul how will we decide to switch to git and how will we manage the CVS => git move ?
19:32 kados2 thd: and each developer can have their own repo
19:32 kados2 thd: we can still have a main project repo
19:32 paul yes, I have one !
19:32 thd kados2: are local repositories only available locally or are they distributed under git?
19:32 kados2 any questions/concerns/comments?
19:30 kados2 who he trusts to make the decisions
19:30 kados2 if the RM doesn't have time, he can delegate the task to others
19:30 kados2 which will improve our QA as well
19:30 kados2 this will require the RM to be involved in every commit
19:29 kados2 the RM can then branch, pull in the changes, test, and merge with the main tree
19:28 kados2 (similar to a commit, but doesn't affect the RM's version)
19:28 kados2 each person can have version control, and send notices to the RM when a new feature is ready
19:28 kados2 with git, that won't happen
19:28 kados2 it could break something else
19:28 kados2 so every time someone commits something
19:28 kados2 we all run off of one 'stable' CVS branch
19:27 kados2 the way koha version control works now it's very inefficient
19:27 tumer cool
19:27 ryan we like it
19:27 tumer is it any good?
19:27 kados2 except to say that LibLime have been using git internally
19:26 kados2 we'll skip git details until chris gets here
19:26 kados2 so lets move on
19:26 kados2 ok, we have a big agenda
19:26 tumer http://library.neu.edu.tr/cg-bin/koha/opac-downloads.pl but instructions in Turkish
19:26 thd tumer: when is the Turkish national library switching to Koha?
19:25 ryan nice
19:25 kados2 cool tumer
19:25 tumer doing it next month
19:25 tumer the result is The Parliament library of Turkey wants us to install it (big library)
19:25 ryan downloads ?
19:24 ryan downlodas ?
19:24 tumer it bulds all necessary files already downloaded 86 times
19:24 toins_ 404 not found...
19:23 tumer ready to download at http://library.neu.edu.tr/cgi-bbin/koha/opac-downlodas
19:23 thd tumer: can I build your release completely from that?
19:23 paul wow... I can't believe it !
19:23 kados2 !!
19:23 tumer zebra,sql in 3 minutes
19:23 kados2 wow, that sounds great tumer
19:23 tumer it instalss all modules perl
19:23 tumer i have a zip file for Windows with rel TG
19:22 kados2 anyone else with some news?
19:22 kados2 fantastic paul
19:22 paul a last one : we should have a new large public library, in New Caledonia, switching to Koha in 2007 (half the size of SAN-OP / NPL)
19:21 paul another one : SAN-OP just published their RFP for a new acquisition module. we will answer, of course ;-)
19:21 cm we've been using mantis too. very handy.
19:21 paul and that will be our customer entry point for requests.
19:20 kados2 neat
19:20 paul it's mantis, a bugzilla like, but it's in french, so easier for frenchies to fill.
19:20 paul we have open suivi.paulpoulain.com to track bugs.
19:20 kados2 very cool
19:20 paul one with zebra, one without.
19:20 paul yes, one that I alreday have mailed to koha-devel : 2 libraries are running Koha 3.0 live
19:19 kados2 paul, do you have some news from France?
19:19 kados2 pecisk, great!
19:19 toins_ good point
19:19 kados2 it will be on Sunday/Monday (Sunday for the US office, Monday for the NZ one)
19:18 kados2 and also, the big news everyone heard on the list already, we have Koha Project Day every week now
19:18 kados2 so this time, I'm announcing that transition is completed
19:18 kados2 last IRC meeting I announced that Liblime was hiring chris, mason and russ from Katipo
19:18 thd kados2: asking is not forcing
19:17 pecisk I could do translating and testing, but not much developer time for now, but I hope for more in future
19:17 kados2 I will start
19:17 kados2 news from developers?
19:17 kados2 so we'll move on
19:17 kados2 ok, well don't want to force anyone else to announce themselves
19:17 pecisk thanks :)
19:16 kados2 pecisk: welcome to Koha
19:16 cm crawford county federated library system, in northwestern pennsylvania
19:16 kados2 chris: welcome
19:16 thd cm: what are the ccfls?
19:16 pecisk I am Linux admin and dev, I am interested in Koha from a time when I girlfriend wrote project about implementing it in local museum, unfortunately lot of real time issues blocked to realise it in real life. However, I like that Koha is here and quite advanced, as I hate proritary backend stuff which is very expensive to license and doesn't work in lot of cases anyway :)
19:15 tumer I will be needing ILL module very soon has to be OCLC compliant, anyone working on that?
19:15 cm w00t!
19:15 kados2 wohoo!
19:15 cm now only 8 more to go. ;)
19:15 cm yeah, i'm not on here much. good news, though; we migrated our 1st & largest library to dev_week.
19:14 johnb I'm here
19:14 kados2 :-)
19:14 kados2 (cm, and ccfls isn't really new to Koha, but maybe new to the developer's chat)
19:13 cm guess i'm the only one paying attention from ccfls... don't know where johnb & kyle_ are.
19:13 pecisk feel
19:13 kados2 or other things you'd like to do on Koha
19:13 kados2 so if you want, tell us who you are, and your interest in Koha, and if you have any development/documentation/specification/translation skills, etc.
19:13 pecisk :))
19:12 kados2 hehe
19:12 kados2 burg, tnb too i think
19:12 paul and maybe newlogbot should be introduced as well ;-)
19:12 kados2 pecisk (don't recognise the nick)
19:12 kados2 sanspach, saorge
19:11 kados2 johnb, cm, kyle_
19:11 kados2 bureado?
19:11 kados2 maybe you'd be willing to introduce yourselves
19:11 kados2 so we have some new folks here
19:11 kados2 hehe
19:11 russel we needed more work out of him so we cloned him
19:10 tumer kados have you doubled?
19:10 kados2 we will have to postpone the discussion of Git until chris gets here
19:10 kados2 I put in some suggested times as wel
19:10 kados2 there's our agenda
19:10 kados2 http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=meetingnotes07jun18
19:09 kados2 still waiting for chris I take it?
19:09 kados2 morning russ, thanks for making it so early!
19:09 paul (sorry)
19:09 kados2 hey sanspach, long time no see
19:09 paul (I told him he will be
19:09 russel russel is here
19:09 sanspach sanspach lurking
19:08 cm cm here
19:08 tumer tumer present
19:08 ryan here!
19:08 kados2 maybe we can do a roll call?
19:08 kados2 so are we ready to get started?
19:07 tumer i am here just by coincidence, been away from library work for some time
19:07 kados2 big turnout today!
19:07 kados2 ryan found ircatwork.com for me, so thanks ryan
19:06 kados2 IRC was blocked where I am currently
19:06 tumer hi paul
19:06 kados2 folks even
19:06 kados2 sorry golks
19:06 kados2 wow
19:06 paul hi tumer. nice to see you here for the meeting
19:06 tumer[A] hello all, long time its been
19:05 russel very cold here this morning - hard to get out of bed :-)
19:05 paul 'morning
19:05 paul hi russel
19:05 russel hi paul
19:05 paul kiwis are awaken...
19:04 paul was asking himself, of course ;-)
19:04 paul )
19:04 cm nope, paul, you're not. :)
19:04 rch hi paul (nope)
19:04 paul hello world. it's 9PM and 5 mn, am I the only one on this chanel ?
14:05 thd kados: are you there?