Time Nick Message 12:04 thd kados: are you still there? 12:17 kados back 12:17 kados I still don't understand how we construct the hierarchy in the first place 12:17 kados ie, how to build the relationships 12:20 thd kados: you could have some meta-record which starts in some design I have not conceptualised properly and fill successive children into a meta-record starting with the records with records that have no parents 12:21 thd kados: the immediate children and immediate parents as well as related siblings are shown in each in individual record 12:22 kados so we're talking about a completely new record format? 12:22 thd kados: or you could keep adding grand parents and grandchildren to special fields for indexing larger parts of the relation hierarchy 12:23 thd kados: a meta-record format containing the standard records inside 12:24 kados I think you're going to end up with a very problematic structure 12:24 kados impossible to maintain 12:24 thd kados: This has value for the way that Zebra 2 can index records 12:24 kados and which denies all of the principles of relational databases have taught us 12:25 thd kados: it is maintained by batch scripts but authorities change very slowly so that is not much of a problem 12:26 kados the goal IMO is normalization, which seems to be the exact opposite of what your're proposing :-) 12:27 thd kados: this is how all databases storing complex relations worked in the 1960s and into the 70s before the relational model became dominant 12:27 thd kados: what would you mean by normalisation in this context? 12:32 thd kados: if the authority records are from the same thesaurus they should already be significantly normalised 12:34 thd kados: when combining multiple thesauri so one can search consistently across more than one or for other non-explicit relationships then some normalisation for indexing authorities is needed 12:35 thd kados: how would normalisation help in this context 12:35 thd ? 12:35 thd kados: within a single authority thesaurus? 12:37 thd kados: did you loose your connection again? 12:38 kados I don't think so 12:39 thd kados: what don't you think? 12:39 kados don't think I lost my connection :-) 12:40 thd kados: how would normalisation help in this context for a single authorities thesaurus? 12:40 kados perhaps lack of sleep is the problem :-) 12:40 thd kados: how do we index authorities such that 12:41 thd we can find any grandparents from any children and any grandchildren from any parent? 12:42 thd kados: are you awake enough to appreciate that abstraction? 12:42 kados es 12:42 kados yes even 12:43 kados zebra can't do it efficieintly 12:43 kados we need a relational database IMO 12:43 kados for that specific case 12:44 kados a 'nested set' would be the most efficient storage method 12:44 thd kados:that costs money and is not efficient for searching large numbers of fields from different tables 12:45 kados what costs money? 12:45 kados if all you need to find out is the relationships between records, an index engine is not the best tool for the job 12:45 thd kados: hiring ID to add some very significant additional feature to Zebra 12:46 kados an SQL interface to Zebra would IMO defeat the purpose of Zebra 12:46 kados Zebra is an indexing engine 12:46 thd kados: exactly 12:46 kados what you want to do is best done using nested sets in SQL 12:49 thd kados: however, in SQL you would not have the ability to search on all bibliographic fields as well as the nested set without the same inefficiencies that had prompted adopting Zebra in the first place 12:50 thd kados: how do you merge the nested set index with the Zebra index so that you can search both very quickly at the same time? 12:50 kados searching on bibliographic fields wouldn't ever be combined with a nested set search, would it? 12:50 thd kados: yes 12:50 kados under what circumstance? 12:51 thd kados: it would be a limiting factor of a bibliographic search 12:52 kados hmmm 12:52 kados then the only way to do it efficiently in zebra is to have the relationships explicitly defined in each record beforehand 12:54 kados meaning that the textual data would have to represent the full hierarchy 12:54 kados North American -- Ohio -- Athens 12:54 kados Europe -- Greece -- Athens 12:54 kados etc. 12:54 thd kados: what you are thinking of would merely find a set of authority records for running many bibliographic searches. The many searches would be very inefficient if they were really all place names in North America and really Excluded all place names in Europe 12:54 thd kados: yes 12:54 kados then you could construct a query such that +North America and -Europe 12:55 kados but so far as I know, there is not currently a subject thesaurus or headings standard that does this in a machine readable way 12:55 kados in libraries anyway :-) 12:55 thd kados: and I mean where the bibliographic record only contains Athens, OH or only contains Athens (understood to be Greece) 12:56 thd kados: there is 12:56 thd kados: there is more than one 12:57 thd kados: the Getty foundation even has such a thesaurus 02:19 btoumi hi all 08:19 kados morning owen 08:19 owen Hi kados 08:19 kados owen: can you get to koha.org? 08:19 owen Yes, quite quickly too 08:19 kados and had the same problem at the OU campus at the CS class 08:21 owen kados: have you tested the Book Bag in the dev-week opac? 08:21 kados i don't think it works, right? 08:22 kados so it can't count 08:22 kados and the records don't display 08:23 kados IIRc that was all just javascript, right? 08:23 owen I've been baning my head on it for a week now and I can't figure out what's gone wrong 08:23 kados did any of the names of the elements change on the page? 08:23 owen Not as far as I can tell 08:27 kados it looks to me like the items are being added 08:27 kados the popup has the right count 08:27 kados but the status count is wrong 08:28 owen but the popup doesn't recognize when you're adding something that you alread added 08:28 kados true 08:28 owen the added items aren't being retained in memory...meaning I guess the cookie isn't getting written 08:28 paul kados : 'morning. www.koha.org works from here, although slowly, as often 08:28 kados morning paul 08:36 owen The basket.js script hasn't changed at all, so I guess it has to be something on the results page... 08:36 kados owen: also, I had it set up to auto-submit when you selected a sort option 08:36 kados but that seems to have died 08:36 kados Error: document.mainform has no properties 08:36 kados Source File: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/search?&qf=neal%20stephenson&do=Search&r=1 08:36 kados Line: 1 08:37 kados brb 08:37 owen That at least I can fix :| 08:39 kados I also get a js error on page load: 08:39 kados Error: Expected ':' but found '}'. Declaration dropped. 08:39 kados Source File: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/opac-tmpl/npl/en/includes/opac-layout.css 08:39 kados Line: 970 08:40 kados our cappuccino machine arrived today, but we don't have expresso beans :-) 08:41 owen kados' productivity is about to go up 300%! 08:41 owen (not counting bathroom breaks) 08:41 kados hehe 08:49 owen When I save the results page locally the javascript works fine >:( 08:51 kados weird 08:53 kados why would it work locally? 08:55 owen kados: do you know why opac-detail isn't working? 08:55 kados probably because the import isn't done yet 08:56 kados yea, looks like it's only half-way there 08:57 kados I should change the cron job to start it Saturday evening 08:57 kados instead of Sun morning 09:51 kados yea, what a pain 09:52 owen I'm really stumped. I don't know where to look next. 09:54 kados owen: well the basket.pl might not work due to the update 09:55 kados but that still doesn't account for the count being wrong 09:55 owen yeah, the reason the basket.pl page doesn't load anything is that the right bib ids aren't being passed to it by the javascript 09:56 kados hmmm 09:56 kados I wonder if this has something to do with the bibid vs biblionumber confusion 09:56 kados each record seems to have a bibid number assigned 10:31 paul huray for kados ;) 10:34 kados it's european machine too, so it tastes like in France or Italy :-) 10:36 kados (well, more like italy actually ... ) 10:39 kados hi tumer 10:39 dewey hi tumer is still strugling 10:40 tumer hi kados long time! 10:40 kados yea, we've both been busy I guess :-) 10:40 tumer i am having proýblems committing new stuff. I am not good at it and it gives me lots of errors 10:40 kados how's the Alvis filter stuff coming along? 10:41 tumer I have it running at NEU 10:41 kados yea, I noticed that you committed to rel_2_2 a couple of times 10:41 kados we had to roll those changes back IIRC 10:41 kados tumer: did you ever switch to linux? 10:42 tumer today I tried commiting lots of stuff all rejected 10:42 tumer no linux never managed to get it running 10:42 kados what's the error? 10:42 tumer it says that the stuff is newer on head while they are not 10:43 kados someties it says that if the files really belong to another branch 10:44 tumer i have all the branches 10:44 tumer but sometiing must have gone wrong somewhere 10:44 kados all of them? 10:44 kados what I do is have a single directory called cvsrepos 10:44 kados in cvsrepos I have: 10:44 kados rel_2_2 10:45 kados dev_week 10:45 dewey well, dev_week is rel_2_2 with zebra ... ie, same API as rel_2_2 10:45 kados rel_3_0 10:45 kados head 10:45 tumer yea thats what i have 10:45 kados each of them has a 'koha' directory that is the specific branch 10:45 tumer i think i will tar and send them to chris to commit them 10:45 kados and I 'symlink' a given installation of Koha to that koha directory 10:45 kados for simplicy of testing changes, etc. 10:46 tumer i do not know any symlinking 10:46 kados I think you can do it in windows too 10:46 tumer not with windows anyway 10:46 kados it makes things much easier 10:46 kados because the CVS version is identical to the running copy 10:46 kados so for example, zoomopac is running off a CVS repository 10:47 tumer what i am trying to do is 10:47 tumer i have a working copy 10:47 kados here is a debian guide for symlinking: http://www.kohadocs.org/Updating_Koha.html 10:47 tumer i want to commit that and do any changes necessary on that 10:47 hdl hi tumer.... 10:47 dewey hi tumer is still strugling 10:47 kados in windows symlinks may be called 'shortcuts' 10:48 tumer hi hdl 10:48 tumer well i will be very busy this week and i want to finish this by the end of this mont 10:49 tumer currently the only module thats not working is Acquisitions 10:49 tumer the rest is all working in XML API 10:50 tumer Acquisitions is a bit of a mess it seems, is there any version that works bug-free? 10:50 kados rel_2_2 is nearly bug free 10:50 tumer and not dev_weeek? 10:51 paul & rel_3_0 is synch with 2_2 10:51 kados AFAIK the only version of Koha that had a bug free acquisitions was 1.2 :-) 10:51 paul so, head should not be too far 10:51 kados dev_week is in sync with rel_2_2 10:51 tumer well rel_3 is not working 10:51 kados though it misses a few changes in the past two weeks 10:52 kados paul: have you tested rel_3_0 acquisitions? 10:52 paul nope 10:52 paul (but toins should have) 10:52 tumer yes paul i have took it as base 10:52 tumer i tried keeping head in sync with rel_3 10:52 kados tumer: what bugs are you experiencing? 10:53 tumer you create a suggestion, accept it but cannot go further than that. Budgeting not always work etc. 10:54 tumer Also DB structures seems a little bit confusing 10:54 tumer dev_week has a few fields that rel_3 does not have but than asks for those fields 10:55 tumer we never actually used acquisitions so its taking time to master 10:56 kados well, AFAIK, rel_2_2 is the first time it actually works in the 2.x series 10:56 kados those bugs sound familiar 10:56 kados perhaps your rel_3 is not quite up to date with the changes in rel_2_2 10:56 tumer so i will take rel_2_2 as base and start over 10:56 kados hdl and paul fixed some bugs in the last month or so 10:57 kados hmmm, probably not a good idea tumer 10:57 kados because IIRC, toins has done some code cleaning as well 10:57 kados paul: right? 10:57 kados we don't want to overwrite his cleaning efforts 10:57 hdl yes. 10:58 tumer i am keeing all his cleaning 10:59 kados tumer: have you seen perltidy? 10:59 kados http://perltidy.sourceforge.net/ 10:59 tumer nope 10:59 kados it can help tidy up code 10:59 kados format it in a readable way, etc. 11:00 tumer i'll check 11:09 owen tumer, are you having trouble committing files using TortoiseCVS? 11:09 tumer yes owen 11:10 owen What version are you using? Are you getting an error message about "cvs: Obsolete --lf option used. Please update your client." ? 11:10 tumer lemme check 11:11 tumer owen: version 2.4.6 11:13 owen Is that the CVSNT versioN? TortoiseCVS is only up to 1.8.27 (stable) 11:13 tumer the errors are different. It says up-to-date check failed and terminates 11:13 owen http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=17118682 11:14 owen Hmm... I haven't seen that before. 11:14 kados tumer: in each directory there is a CVS directory 11:14 tumer sorry version 1.8.25 11:14 kados tumer: look in the Entries file 11:14 kados it will tell you the version string of each CVS file in that directory 11:14 kados perhaps that can help you locate the problem 11:15 tumer i will go into it 11:20 kados as an example: 11:20 kados /opac-authorities-home.pl/1.1.2.6/Mon Apr 10 20:08:43 2006//Trel_2_2 11:21 kados this entry says it's version 1.1.2.6 the date it was committed, and the branch it is assigned to 11:21 kados here is an example from 'head': 11:21 kados /loadmodules.pl/1.20/Thu Feb 9 03:20:38 2006// 11:21 kados there is no branch assignment 11:21 kados but still version and date 11:22 kados tumer: does that make sense? 11:22 tumer i am following 11:23 kados when you check out a fresh copy of a repository the Entries files ar all correct for that branch 11:23 kados but if you swap directories between two or more branches, the Entries files will get messed up 11:23 tumer i am now trying to get a fresh copy of head and start over 11:30 Burgwork morning kados 11:31 kados morning Burgwork 11:31 kados how's things? 11:33 Burgwork not bad 11:33 Burgwork banging away on the weekend on that stuff for you 11:33 kados sweet 11:33 Burgwork just need to proof it at lunch and it is good to go 11:44 thd kados: Is there a devel meeting today? 11:45 kados thd: it's on Wednesday 11:46 thd kados: you wrote Monday, I think in your most recent koha-devel list message 11:46 kados woops 11:46 kados I will correct that after Lunch 11:49 kados brb