Time  Nick     Message
13:47 kados    owen: so we've got this:
13:47 kados        <!-- TMPL_LOOP NAME="facets" -->
13:47 kados            <li><a href="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME=link -->"><!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="label" --></a>(<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="count" -->)</li>
13:47 kados        <!-- /TMPL_LOOP -->
13:47 kados    the inner facets loop
13:47 kados    I'll just add a new var there
13:47 kados    called 'class'
13:47 kados    so you can wrap each <li> in a span
13:47 kados    with a class of 'class'
13:48 kados    or just do <li class=<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME="class" -->>
13:48 kados    etc.
13:48 owen     Right
13:48 kados    and you have a css rule
13:48 kados    for the hidden class
13:48 owen     And the script passes "class" as visible or not based on...
13:48 kados    yea
13:48 kados    then you have a link below
13:49 kados    that lets you unhide them
13:49 kados    using js
13:49 kados    will that work?
13:50 owen     possibly
13:50 owen     I'm thinking it gets tricky when you try to re-hide.
13:51 kados    hmmm
13:51 kados    ncsu doesn't have that option
13:51 kados    :-)
13:51 owen     Do you have any knowledge of how the Pines folks are deciding what tech to require for their opac? Are they requiring javascript?
13:52 kados    yes, unfortunately
13:52 owen     So you do see that as a disadvantage.
13:52 kados    definitely
13:52 kados    but it's an architectural decision
13:53 kados    they basically build the entire system to use an RPC framework
13:53 kados    s/build/built/
13:54 kados    so any of the clients have to make multiple calls to the system to retrieve each element of data
13:54 kados    it's very scalable
13:54 kados    but requires RPC for every client
13:55 kados    they made some of the same mistakes Koha made along the lines of MARC in SQL and a few new ones :-)
13:55 kados    but every system has it's flaws
13:55 kados    anyway ...
14:02 owen     NCSU doesn't have an un-hide option because they reload the page evertime someone clicks a 'more' link...so if someone clicks /another/ 'more' link the previously expanded section is contracted again.
14:02 kados    right
14:02 kados    what do you suggest?
14:02 owen     It gets sticky when you hide something with CSS and then try to show it with Javascript
14:03 owen     People with no CSS will see everything anyway, so they're fine.
14:03 kados    prefer a page reload?
14:03 owen     But people with CSS but no Javascript won't have a way to expand the tree
14:03 kados    right
14:03 kados    you could test for js, then apply the hide only if they had js
14:04 kados    or a page reload is ok too
14:04 kados    btw: they are hidden now
14:05 kados    just let me know how you want to do it and I'll make it so :-)
14:05 owen     I'm wavering... I guess I'm leaning towards a page reload. Partly because I'm starting to worry about the total page size with all those trees loaded automatically
14:05 kados    right
14:05 kados    ok, lets do that then
14:06 owen     What would you think of dropdowns for the "further limit search" options?
14:06 kados    how would that work?
14:07 owen     Instead of having a link that would limit search results to "Branch -> Chauncey," have a drop-down list that resubmits the query when you select a branch
14:08 kados    sounds like a good idea
14:09 kados    kind of like ncsu's 'send search to'?
14:09 owen     Yeah
14:11 kados    I'll add that right now too
14:19 kados    owen: ok ... if you add expand=su to your cgi query, it will expand the subject list
14:19 kados    I'll add that as a link to the template
14:29 kados    owen: ok ... the 'Show More' is working for ccl queries and subjects
14:30 owen     Cool
14:49 kados    ok, I think the expandable part is working with ccl queries and all three types of facets
14:49 kados    wonder if we should give each of them an id and have that be the #link
14:52 kados    yea, that seems to work well
14:55 kados    ok, now there's a type and a typeid
14:56 kados    owen: committed
14:59 kados    owen: so the branch drop-down ... should that be where we allow the user to continue the search in worldcat, etc.?
15:00 kados    owen: or is it strictly a branch limit?
15:04 owen     I was just thinking we could replace the little js tree with the branch limiters, content limiters, etc.
15:04 kados    js tree?
15:04 owen     The tigra menus you had before
15:05 owen     I was just trying to think of an alternative solution that wouldn't involve pushing a list further down the screen
15:05 kados    right
15:05 kados    well ...
15:05 kados    I guess my assumption is that now that we've only got 5 of each facet displaying
15:06 kados    the new design will shrink the total height of the three facets we have now
15:06 kados    is that what you had in mind?
15:06 kados    (for instance, I like the size of worldcat's facets)
15:06 kados    then ... we could add some new facets ...
15:07 kados    I guess the question is, is the branch limit going to be a facet? or is it separate from the facets?
15:08 kados    I can whip it out in about 10 minutes ... we just need to decide how we want it to work
15:10 owen     It could go either way. If the branch (content, audience, etc) limits are as "primary" as the subject, author, etc. limiters, then we should create new facets just like the existing ones. If they're  a less-important feature then we could "compress" them into drop-down menus for brevity.
15:10 kados    seems like they're primary ones
15:11 kados    to me anyway
15:11 kados    but I can see branch limits being separated
15:11 owen     Yes--particularly if you can get those facets to reflect the contents of that particular result set
15:11 kados    yep, I can
15:11 owen     Yes to them being primary
15:11 kados    ok ... I'll just add them to the facets for now then
15:12 kados    we can always change it later if we want
15:16 owen     One thing we need to be careful about...
15:17 owen     The subject, series, author links expand or re-focus the search...
15:17 owen     while the branch, content, audience links refine it
15:17 kados    ahh ... good point
15:17 kados    hmmm
15:18 kados    they should be visually separated I suppose
15:18 kados    any ideas?
15:18 owen     If you can simply put the two sets into two different loops we'll be able to style them separately
15:19 kados    i guess one question is, _should_ the subject, series, author links limit or expand the search?
15:19 kados    because at NCSU they limit it
15:19 kados    at worldcat too
15:19 owen     Yeah...
15:20 owen     Seems like we talked about this before
15:20 kados    :-)
15:20 kados    well ...
15:21 kados    is there any visual mechanism we can use to signal either inclusion or exclusion of the original search term?
15:22 owen     Is it more important to offer the opac user a means of narrowing their search or of discovering more related information?
15:22 kados    good question
15:23 kados    for the opac I think 'discovery' is better than 'limiting' in most cases
15:23 kados    but ... really both are useful
15:24 owen     What if limiting is the default for facets, and discovery is an option that takes you away from your original result set?  A new page with a full list of the facets that can be used to branch off the original search?
15:25 kados    hmmm
15:25 kados    yea, it might be confusing
15:25 kados    well ...
15:26 kados    if we kept the facets as 'expand' and added the 'limits' somewhere else on the page
15:26 kados    would that work?
15:27 owen     I'm leaning towards thinking that users expect to be able to narrow their results first
15:28 owen     Think about how Amazon allows you take your original search term and look for it in a particular category (books, dvds, electrics, etc)
15:28 kados    right
15:28 kados    ok, so we limit then
15:29 kados    then all the facets can go together
15:29 kados    and maybe we could allow the user to [X] the original search term on the next page
15:29 kados    to expand the search using just the facet
15:29 owen     I think that would be very cool
15:30 kados    alright ... give me a few minutes :-)
15:38 kados    owen: have you started on a new design yet?
15:39 owen     I've been working on tweks here and there
15:39 owen     Actually, I'd like to talk it through with you again, because I wasn't taking good notes the last time we talked about it.
15:39 kados    ok
15:39 kados    well ...
15:39 owen     I'm about to head out here, so it'll have to be later
15:40 kados    ok, we can chat about it tomorrow
15:40 kados    maybe I'll even write up a spec :-)
15:41 owen     Now that I'm out of Chauncey I can be a lot more flexible with my time. If you ever feel like we need to meet face to face it's a lot easier for me now to make that happen
15:41 kados    cool
15:41 kados    yea, that might be useufl
15:41 kados    useful even
17:20 kados    chris: k ... back
17:20 kados    still no http tho :(
17:20 chris    bummer
17:20 chris    can u tunnel it thru ssh?
17:21 kados    I should be doing that anyway :-)
17:21 chris    ud need a squid proxy set up somewhere :)
17:21 kados    using tor or sth
17:21 kados    yea
17:21 kados    well strangely, I can't even open any _new_ ssh connections
17:21 kados    something funky going on with the local ISP I hink
17:21 kados    they're realy wankers :-)
17:22 kados    their official position is that 'viruses' are causing the wireless outages at this coffee shop :-)
17:24 kados    chris: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=zebraprogrammerguide#field_weighting
17:24 kados    chris: there's a brief explaination of what I need to do there ... my two options
17:24 kados    under 'how can I map a single search query (like title) to a pqf string like the above?'
17:25 chris    sorry was on phone
17:25 chris    looking now
17:28 kados    there's this: http://search.cpan.org/irk/Net-Z3950-SimpleServer/SimpleServer.pm
17:28 kados    which has something called an RPN tree
17:28 kados    which I've been trying to understand since I started with perl :-
17:28 kados    )
17:29 kados    the basic problem is
17:29 kados    I have incoming cgi
17:29 kados    which I can pretty easily transform to CCL
17:29 chris    right
17:30 kados    then I want to transform that CCL into PQF but it's not a one to one mapping
17:30 kados    each leaf node will be branched
17:30 kados    to incorporate all the fancy field weighting
17:30 chris    k
17:31 kados    so the CCL syntax in pretty simple:
17:31 kados    http://indexdata.dk/yaz/doc/tools.tkl#CCL
17:31 kados    you basically have Operands and Operators
17:31 kados    and the Operands can be an either query
17:31 kados    s/either/entire/
17:32 chris    yep
17:33 kados    of course, the other option may actually turn out to be simpler ... just turn a PQF query into XML, parse it with a stylesheet, then turn it back into PQF
17:35 chris    hmmm
17:35 chris    probably
17:35 chris    but perhaps slower
17:35 chris    altho probably more easily extensible
17:35 kados    hmmm
17:36 kados    slower isn't that bad I don't think
17:37 kados    since I can't imagine it would really slow things down that much ... given how fast the actual query is now
17:37 chris    yep
17:38 chris    so the idea is .. take you ccl made from your cgi
17:38 chris    convert to pqf
17:38 chris    convert to pqf - xml
17:39 chris    transform with xlst
17:39 chris    convert back to pqf (now with weightings)
17:39 chris    for idea 2?
17:40 kados    well ...
17:40 kados    mostly, yes
17:40 kados    though it begs the question, what's the point of using ccl in the first place
17:40 chris    yep
17:40 chris    cgi -> pqf
17:40 chris    pqf -> pqf-xml
17:40 chris    transform
17:40 chris    pqf-xml -> pqf
17:40 chris    run query
17:41 kados    yea
17:41 kados    I think it'll be more like:
17:41 chris    that allows us to change the weightings
17:41 kados    1. cgi -> kohaquerysyntax
17:41 chris    without havning to hack at our ccl parser
17:41 kados    kohaquerysyntax -> pqf
17:41 kados    etc.
17:41 chris    right
17:41 chris    could we make kohaquerysyntax = openurl
17:42 kados    this is frustrating though
17:42 kados    hmmm
17:42 kados    does openurl have a fully-described query syntax?
17:42 chris    not sure, i havent read about it properly, would be good if it did
17:42 kados    I doubt it does
17:43 chris    no worries then .. a openurl resolver isnt hard to write
17:43 kados    well what I've got
17:44 kados    is something that looks like this:
17:45 kados    search?q=query&op=operator&offset=&count=&sort_by=&server
17:45 kados    q is repeatable
17:45 kados    as is op
17:45 kados    as is server
17:45 kados    as is sort by
17:46 chris    right
17:46 kados    right now, q can be a valid CCL query
17:46 kados    so you can do something like:
17:46 kados    q=su=cats and au=tom
17:46 kados    or you could go:
17:46 kados    q=su=cats&q=au=tom
17:47 chris    k
17:47 chris    well, i think the answer might be .. restrict the syntax the form/cgi can hand data back as
17:48 kados    how so?
17:49 chris    if you are allowing a free text type in the query one, handle that with one cgi script
17:50 chris    and for the other one, like the advanced search page, where you have an input for author, one for subject etc .. treat each input as a term, not a query
17:50 kados    hmmm ...
17:50 kados    well I like that idea
17:50 kados    but the problem is, the results page for both simple and advanced searches has to have the same options
17:51 kados    ie, facets, limits, resorting, query history, etc.
17:51 kados    hmmm
17:51 chris    could that not be in the form of one input per term tho?
17:52 chris    i think what im thinking is
17:52 chris    for the simple search we do a double parse
17:52 chris    first parse, convert it to the same syntax as the advanced search expects
17:52 chris    then deal with it the same
17:52 kados    hmmm
17:52 chris    just thinking aloud
17:53 kados    sure
17:53 kados    yea, that might work
17:54 chris    could be a just a script that parses, and redirect to the script that does the search and displays the results
00:16 thd      kados: are you still up?
02:23 toins    hi all
02:33 hdl      hi
04:30 hdl      toins : paul est avec  toi ?
04:30 toins    non, il est allé faire des courses
04:31 hdl      OK.
04:31 toins    je pense qu'il sera la cet après midi.
04:31 hdl      kados ?
04:31 dewey    kados is becoming a true Perl Monger...
06:09 kados    hdl: I'm here
06:11 kados    hdl: should I test your bugfixes to 1024/1025?
06:17 kados    hdl: I have a new problem, along with the old ones
06:17 kados    hdl: 'date expected' is not filled, but 'published on' is instead
06:17 kados    hdl: that is, the 'published on' date is filled with the expected date
06:18 kados    hdl: and another new prob:
06:19 kados    hdl: subscriptions are now listed like:
06:19 kados    ,Vol 1 No 1,Vol 2 No 2,Vol 3 No 3
06:19 kados    so both Vol and No are incremented (the rules are set up properly)
06:19 kados    wait ...
06:19 kados    that may be my fault
06:24 kados    hdl: are you there?
07:16 osmoze   hello #koha
07:20 hdl      kados : i am here
07:22 hdl      kados: now, dateexpected is not filled any longer since what is supposed to be calculated is the next issue date rather than the next reception.
07:22 kados    hdl: are you working on serials bugs?
07:22 kados    hmmm
07:22 hdl      But we may discuss.
07:22 kados    yes, I think that's a problem
07:22 hdl      why.
07:22 kados    issue date means publication date?
07:23 hdl      kados : now, there are two dates.
07:23 hdl      publication date is one.
07:23 hdl      receivedate is two.
07:23 kados    ok
07:23 hdl      publication date is the most important for users.
07:23 hdl      So this is the one that is now calcultaed.
07:24 kados    so as I described, currently, when you receive issues, the publication date is auto-calculated, not the receivedate
07:24 hdl      So this is the one that is now calculated.
07:24 kados    sigh
07:24 kados    but that's a major function change
07:24 kados    it completely breaks any previous serials installation!
07:24 hdl      If you like, I can copy the dates into both fields.
07:25 hdl      It also add a new column into the database !!!!
07:26 kados    it should be an option in the series creation screen, 'calculate by pub date or by receive date'
07:26 kados    yes, I upgraded using upgradedatabase, and the new column was added I believe
07:26 hdl      yes.
07:27 hdl      you can esayliy update the data so that receivedate comes into publisheddate.
07:27 kados    hdl: http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1142
07:27 kados    hdl: a user contributed this bug report
07:27 kados    hdl: they were running on the previous version of serials
07:27 kados    hdl: and I upgraded them to rel_2_2
07:28 kados    hdl: do plugins work with item adding and serials?
07:28 kados    hdl: s/and/in/
07:29 hdl      For me Yes.
07:29 hdl      on production
07:29 kados    and acquisition date is filled?
07:30 hdl      That must be a preference or marc problem
07:30 kados    ??
07:30 kados    hdl: serials were working fine ... I upgraded them to rel_2-2, now they report bugs
07:31 kados    hdl: how is it a preference or marc prob?
07:31 hdl      Did they use serialsitemization before ?
07:31 kados    no
07:31 hdl      They file bugs from itemization.
07:32 hdl      Have you tried to know how the code work ? Did you investigate how their frameworks look like ?
07:32 hdl      My code
07:33 hdl      is relying on framework as such.
07:33 kados    same with me
07:33 hdl      It takes the items.barcode marc field, the items.note marc field and then fills them.
07:34 kados    so it doesn't consult the marc frameworks?
07:34 hdl      YES IT DOES.
07:34 kados    for plugins, etc.?
07:34 kados    hmmm
07:34 kados    our plugins aren't working, for barcodes for instance
07:35 hdl      pls donot mix all things.
07:35 hdl      let us focus on this bug.
07:35 kados    ok, one bug at a time
07:35 hdl      They tell taht it doesnot update record.
07:35 hdl      OK ?
07:36 hdl      What they have to know IS taht serialsitemization relies on frameworks.
07:36 kados    hdl: of course, they already have frameworks for items set up
07:36 kados    hdl: and the frameworks work fine in item editing
07:37 hdl      It looks in the framework which marc field is linked to items.barcode, AND which marc field is linked to items.note
07:37 kados    hdl: but in serials, item editing doesn't use frameworks in rel_2_2 in either default or npl templates
07:37 kados    ok
07:38 hdl      since items.note SHOULD BE the place where the issue number is stored.
07:38 hdl      BUT....
07:38 hdl      Surely, most of the time, ppl donot use items.note.
07:38 kados    ?? what do they use?
07:38 hdl      OR they may have linked it to more than one field.
07:39 hdl      (I assume that they use Note fields in bibliographic data.)
07:39 kados    yes
07:40 hdl      So I think that THEIR problem comes from that.
07:40 kados    ??
07:40 hdl      But without peering into their code, i cannot confirm.
07:41 kados    they don't use 'itemnotes' for bibliographic data
07:41 hdl      For serials itemization they MUST.
07:41 hdl      s/MUST/HAVE TO/
07:41 kados    but that is not the bug they are reporting
07:42 kados    I agree that Vol. No is stored in itemnotes
07:42 kados    that is fine
07:42 kados    what is not fine is:
07:42 kados    1. plugins don't work in the serials item editor
07:42 kados    2. no barcode checking (for duplicates)
07:43 kados    3. Serials is not adding a date to the record (acquisition date)
07:43 hdl      it is not saving the
07:43 hdl      barcode information etc. to our record. Once again, it simply checks the issue
07:43 hdl      in, but doesn't update our record.
07:43 kados    barcode
07:43 hdl      They say :the problem I was speaking about.
07:43 kados    no ... barcode is stored in items.barcode, not items.note
07:43 kados    ?
07:43 hdl      Yes.
07:44 kados    so it's different
07:44 hdl      But I store a whole marcrecord.
07:44 hdl      I build it from the framework.
07:44 hdl      And to store the number information, I HAVE to have a field.
07:45 hdl      I took itemnotes field.
07:45 kados    that is fine
07:45 hdl      If there are no itemnotes...
07:45 kados    they are fine with the number in itemnotes
07:45 kados    that is not the bug they reported
07:45 kados    what they have a problem with is the other items fields aren't working
07:45 kados    for instance, a plugin for their barcode isn't working
07:46 kados    the acquisition date isn't available as a field
07:46 kados    (and no plugin for it of course)
07:46 kados    no warnings for duplicate barcodes
07:47 kados    manual issues don't save barcodes, etc.
07:47 kados    plus they don't like the display of the last 5 issues
07:47 kados    hdl: does that make sense now?
07:47 hdl      No.
07:48 hdl      pls.
07:48 hdl      calm down.
07:48 kados    :-)
07:48 kados    I'm calm
07:48 hdl      does not seem.
07:48 kados    sorry ...
07:49 kados    ok ... I will begin again
07:49 hdl      plugin for acquisition
07:49 hdl      (let me go.
07:49 hdl      )
07:49 kados    (OK)
07:50 hdl      plugin for acquisition was not asked and not coded.
07:50 kados    ahh ...
07:50 hdl      So if anyone fells like.
07:50 hdl      It's ok for me.
07:50 hdl      plugin for itemization.
07:51 hdl      It may go far further. But we can now manage the minimum.
07:52 kados    (you mean serials itemization?)
07:52 hdl      yes.
07:52 kados    so you mean that if I have a plugin defined for the items.barcode MARC field (in biblio framework) it should work in serials check in?
07:53 hdl      taht is : barcode, location, branch, and status.
07:53 kados    (I have plugin defined for items.barcode, but it doesn't appear in the serials check-in)
07:55 hdl      I say taht if you have a Koha link defined for items.barcode, a Koha link for items.homebranch and items.holding, a Koha link for items.itemnotes, it should work.
07:55 kados    ahh ... so you mean it will save it in the MARC field linked to items.barcode
07:56 kados    afaik, this works except for manual issues
07:57 kados    I just tested in default templates
07:57 kados    manual issue doesn't save item information to record
07:58 hdl      ok.
07:59 hdl      THAT IS a bug.
07:59 hdl      (will fix it now.)
08:00 kados    hdl: i will file a new bug report
08:00 hdl      for ?
08:00 kados    for 'manual issue doesn't save item information to record' :-)
08:01 kados    if it's fixed today we can close it
08:01 kados    just to keep track of bugs :-)
08:01 slef     someone made a passing reference to mailing again about bug tracking... was it someone here and did they mail it?
08:01 kados    not me ...
08:06 slef     I conclude that I dreamt it.
08:08 hdl      kados : Is it ok for 1124 and 1125 ? Can I close them for good ?
08:09 hdl      kados : Have you understood what I told you for the bug filed by your client ?
08:09 hdl      That they HAVE to have an items.itmenotes linked to a marc field.
08:10 kados    hdl: it is linked
08:32 kados    hdl: bug 1124 is fixed i think
08:32 kados    hdl: but for 1125, I think we need to create a syspref to show/hide the last 5 issues
08:35 kados    hdl: still there?
08:35 dewey    there is a minor diff in <div>s, that I missed
08:36 hdl      yes.
08:36 kados    what do you think about my suggestion re:1125?
08:38 hdl      what do YOU think about designing a true serial management based on full-serial-issue
08:38 hdl      ?
08:38 kados    how would it work?
08:38 hdl      It could allYou could have all issue on the page.
08:38 kados    hmmm
08:38 hdl      you could clik on an issue to modify it.
08:39 hdl      And you would have a table to add one.
08:39 hdl      or the next expected one.
08:39 kados    it's a good idea
08:39 kados    but maybe we should have two pages:
08:39 hdl      (table would be a div) panel.
08:39 kados    1. for current expected/late issues
08:40 kados    2. for all issues
08:40 hdl      what if they were gathered in a expected issues tab ?
08:41 kados    that would be ok
08:41 hdl      But THIS is a major change.
08:41 kados    (more than ok, great! :-))
08:41 kados    yep
08:41 hdl      we may have to refer to katipo and paul as well.
08:41 hdl      When is the next meeting ?
08:41 kados    katipo has their own serials module
08:41 hdl      Could it be on agenda ?
08:41 kados    they are ok with any change you make
08:42 kados    as it doesn't affect them :-)
08:42 kados    is paul around now?
08:42 kados    (I'm not sure about next meeting, maybe tomorrow?)
08:43 kados    hdl: something else to consider: I think for serials itemization to work for my clients, they will need:
08:43 kados    1. all item.* data avaialble
08:44 kados    2. plugins to work
08:44 kados    otherwise, itemization won't be possible for them as they require all items to have all fields (in some cases) and some fields, like barcode, rely on a specific plugin
08:46 hdl      kados : the problem is that relying on items table is not satisfactory for ppl. since they would like to input all the items data for serials on the same page.
08:47 kados    hmmm
08:47 hdl      But since we rely on koha items table, all the item subfields cannot be used. (I supposed when I coded that Katipo would use that code.)
08:47 kados    I don't understand completely
08:47 kados    what if we had two columns:
08:47 hdl      A second problem would be to keep up the link with items.
08:47 kados    1. for serials information
08:48 kados    2. for items information
08:48 kados    when an item was checked in a library can fill out both columns
08:48 kados    or just the serials one
08:48 kados    saving an issue would mean:
08:49 kados    1. creating an item (using item column)
08:49 kados    2. working the subscription magic
08:50 hdl      some information (serialseq for instance) you input for an issue ppl donot want to input it twice for an item.
08:51 kados    right
08:51 kados    does it have to be?
08:52 kados    serialseq is in the serials table, right?
08:52 kados    not items table?
08:52 hdl      you have to know which marc field to put serialseq
08:52 kados    ahh
08:52 hdl      It is duplicated in items.itemnotes.
08:52 kados    and now it's in item.notes
08:52 kados    duplicated?
08:52 kados    hmmm
08:53 hdl      the information is both in items.itmenotes and serial.serialseq
08:53 kados    ahh, ok
08:53 kados    that's ok by me
08:54 hdl      And we have no other link between items and serial but serialseq
08:54 kados    hmmm
08:54 kados    itemnumber is not stored in the serials table?
08:55 kados    wow ... so if you delete a subscription, it doesn't delete the items?
08:55 hdl      not yet. need a new column.
08:55 hdl      Unfortunately.
08:55 hdl      But if you delete a subscription.
08:55 hdl      You keep the items.
08:56 kados    hmmm
08:56 kados    I worry that this serials module is not ready for a stable system
08:56 kados    is it sponsored by one of your libraries?
08:57 hdl      when you unsubscribe a list, you keep tracks of the emails you received. Same for items received.
08:57 hdl      IEP Lyon is now using it.
08:58 kados    so they didn't notice all the bugs?
08:58 hdl      They are on vacation.
08:59 kados    :-)
08:59 kados    before vacation, they were using it?
08:59 hdl      I set it up on late june.
09:00 kados    did they perform an acceptance test on it before they went on vacation?
09:00 hdl      yes.
09:00 hdl      All went wel.
09:00 kados    is the cvs version the same as Lyon's version?
09:04 hdl      not yet.
09:04 hdl      I coded serials itemization for them.
09:05 kados    hdl: can you update cvs to be bug-free like Lyon's version is?
09:06 hdl      There are the same bugs as you detected them.
09:06 hdl      But their base was OK.
09:06 kados    their base? you mean the database?
09:06 hdl      Yes.
09:06 kados    what do you mean it was 'OK'?
09:07 hdl      It was well aranged so that items were created.
09:08 kados    so manual issues work for Lyon?
09:08 kados    items are created?
09:08 hdl      I hope so.
09:09 kados    you haven't tested?
09:09 hdl      I had tested.
09:10 hdl      But it is long ago. And I had to modify things so taht dates were well displayed.
09:10 hdl      then i did not retest EVERY thing.
09:14 kados    hdl: do you think Lyon will notice the bugs that exist for serials in rel_2_2?
09:19 hdl      about acquisition history bug. I cannot reporduce it myself.
09:24 kados    hdl: which bug number?
09:24 kados    1136?
09:27 hdl      yes.
09:33 qiqo     ei anybody awake?
09:34 hdl      kados : about 1136 : can you try a hsit search commenting lines 790 and 821 in C4/Acquisition.pm
09:34 hdl      to see if histsearch can provide you with data.
09:34 kados    hdl: first i try to acquisition something ... can't get it to work :(
09:34 qiqo     i would just want to ask about printing barcodes
09:35 qiqo     when i generate the barcodes i get other numbers other than what i assigned to a monograph
09:36 qiqo     what may seem to be the problem?
09:37 kados    hdl: ok, histsearch seems to work now
09:38 kados    hdl: some columns are missing, but i can detail them later
09:38 kados    maybe it shows received and non-received items in the history?
09:38 hdl      kados : have you change sthg in histsearch ?
09:38 hdl      yes.
09:38 kados    hdl: no ... I think paul's commit to Acquisitions must have fixed it
09:39 kados    (maybe the problem was simply that I couldn't acquisition anything in the first place)
09:39 kados    (before)
09:39 kados    so we can close bug 1136 I think
09:46 qiqo     ermm..
09:49 qiqo     anybody who could help me with the barcode printing stuff?
09:49 kados    qiqo: what barcodes system are you using?
09:49 kados    qiqo: what version of Koha, etc.?
09:49 qiqo     2.2.5
09:49 qiqo     barcode system?
09:49 kados    barcodes on 2.2.5 is broken badly
09:49 kados    it doesn't work
09:49 qiqo     ahh man...
09:50 kados    there is a new system that will be in  2.2.6
09:50 kados    that works very well
09:50 qiqo     so what version do you suggest?
09:50 qiqo     when will that be out?
09:50 kados    2.2.6 should be out very soon
09:50 qiqo     you thing 2.2.4 is ok with barcodes?
09:50 kados    nope
09:50 qiqo     how bout updating 2.2.5's barcode via cvs?
09:51 kados    yep, that will work
09:51 qiqo     you think that''ll fix my problem?
09:51 kados    it should help
09:51 kados    I have three libraries using the new barcodes system in production
09:51 kados    and it's working well for them
09:51 qiqo     cus i already install 2.2.6rc2 and i also got the same problem
09:51 qiqo     you think cvs got the new barcode system?
09:52 kados    yea, IIRC the install script for 2.2.6rc2 doesn't create the table properly for the new barcode system
09:52 qiqo     so what shall I do
09:52 kados    yea, cvs definitely does
09:52 qiqo     sorry im not really that familiar with cvs
09:52 kados    one thing ...
09:52 qiqo     but i already downloaded the cvs
09:52 qiqo     but dont know what to do now
09:52 kados    the new system currently requires a specific barcode/spine label
09:52 kados    it's the gaylord 8851
09:53 kados    we're working on a more flexible system that won't appear in 2.2.6
09:53 qiqo     ei.. will i just overwrite the files from cvs/barcode to the current/barcode?
09:53 kados    but will be in 2.4 and 3.0
09:53 kados    no
09:53 qiqo     what shall i do? please tell me..
09:53 kados    unless you're using gaylord 8851, I think you'll need to print barcodes outside of Koha
09:54 kados    unless you want to sponsor development of this feature
09:54 kados    I'm sorry :(
09:54 qiqo     so i wont be able to use the barcode system?
09:54 kados    Koha 2.2.6 will be different -- no advertised features that don't work
09:54 qiqo     ever? unless i look for a sponsor
09:54 kados    you will be able to use the barcode system in 2.4 and 3.0
09:55 qiqo     i badly need the feature right now..
09:55 kados    hmmm
09:55 qiqo     argghh//
09:55 qiqo     so you think the cvs thing wont fix my problem?
09:55 kados    we could finish the development quite quickly and you could install it
09:55 qiqo     really? how long shall it take?
09:55 kados    but it wouldn't be a priority without sponsorship
09:55 qiqo     ermm.. ok
09:55 kados    i can check our current schedule to see when it's supposed to be done
09:56 slef     I may have a sponsor for working on barcodes, but I'm snowed. :-(
09:56 kados    hmmm ... we don't even have a timeline
09:56 qiqo     armmmm..
09:56 slef     tomorrow is koha day here at towers
09:56 kados    it could be done very quickly if we had a sponsor
09:56 kados    slef: :-)
09:56 qiqo     im gonna try the cvs thing first
09:57 kados    qiqo: that will only work if you have gaylord 8851 barcodes
09:57 kados    qiqo: try it on the demo first to see how it works:
09:57 kados    qiqo: koha.liblime.com
09:57 qiqo     so i will install the gaylord?
09:57 kados    gaylord is a label type
09:57 kados    it has:
09:57 kados    spine labels and barcodes on the same line
09:58 kados    qiqo: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/barcodes/label-manager.pl?itemtype=1&isbn=1&dcn=1&classif=1&itemcallnumber=1&papertype=gaylord-8511&barcodetype=Code39&printingtype=both&startrow=1&guidebox=1&op=save_conf
09:58 kados    qiqo: or just: http://koha.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/label-home.pl
09:58 kados    qiqo: then click on 'add labels' and then finally 'generate PDF'
09:59 kados    qiqo: the new system we speced out would allow you to define label types of your own
09:59 qiqo     :(
09:59 kados    qiqo: with measurements based on what you need
09:59 kados    but for now, only the gaylord is supported
09:59 qiqo     but its taking up time,, i need to label my collection..
10:00 kados    this is an open source project
10:00 kados    we rely on sponsored development for features
10:00 slef     qiqo: what labels do you use?
10:01 qiqo     the manually made labels
10:01 slef     print onto paper and then sticky-film them to the books?
10:02 kados    qiqo: do you have pre-printed spine labels?
10:03 qiqo     nope i dont
10:03 kados    so maybe the gaylord _is_ the right choice for you
10:03 kados    did you see the demo?
10:03 qiqo     how do i install that?
10:03 qiqo     yes
10:03 kados    that's running stock cvs
10:04 kados    check kohadocs.org for the 'Updating Koha' document
10:07 qiqo     updating koha?
10:07 kados    qiqo: did you look on kohadocs.org?
10:07 qiqo     yes
10:08 kados    qiqo: there is a document called 'Updating Koha '
10:08 kados    it has a step by step guide for how to use cvs
10:08 kados    hdl: are you still around?
10:08 qiqo     yes.. so what release are we talking about now
10:09 qiqo     cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/koha co -r rel_2_2 koha
10:09 hdl      yes.
10:09 kados    qiqo: rel_2_2
10:09 qiqo     still 2_2?
10:09 qiqo     ok
10:10 kados    hdl: are you working on a bug? if so, which one?
10:10 kados    I can look at it if you are
10:14 slef     anyone know where telephone numbers starting +234 are?
10:14 kados    not me
10:15 Burgwork slef, nigeria or ohio (within NA)
10:15 owen     Google suggests Nigeria
10:15 Burgwork morning kados
10:16 hdl      kados : bug 1240
10:16 hdl      sorry 1140
10:16 Burgwork slef, http://decoder.americom.com/main.html
10:17 slef     Burgwork: thanks will bookmark
10:17 slef     www.itu.int seems down
10:17 slef     http://www.ukphoneinfo.com/section/tci/locator.shtml if anyone ever wants a UK one
10:18 hdl      kados : see if it is OK now ?
10:19 kados    hdl: 1140?
10:19 hdl      opac serials.
10:19 kados    hdl: I don't see a commit for 1140 ... but for 1136
10:19 hdl      Yes I mistook numbers..
10:19 kados    ok
10:19 kados    I will update and test
10:26 qiqo     i cant seem to find the opac module
10:26 qiqo     with the cvs
10:26 kados    hdl: I discovered a new bug
10:27 kados    hdl: i created a new subscription
10:27 kados    hdl: and received 6 issues
10:27 kados    hdl: subscription-detail.pl now shows:
10:27 kados     Vol 12 No 6  	 08/08/2006  	 Arrived  	
10:27 kados    Vol 12 No 5 	08/08/2006 	Arrived 	
10:27 kados    Vol 12 No 4 	08/08/2006 	Arrived 	
10:27 kados    Vol 12 No 3 	08/08/2006 	Arrived 	
10:27 kados    Vol 12 No 2 	08/08/2006 	Arrived 	
10:27 kados    Vol 12 No 7 		Waited
10:27 kados    so Vol 12 No 1 is missing from there
10:28 kados    hdl: but to answer your original question ... is bug 1140 fixed ... almost
10:28 kados    hdl: after checking in 6 issues it now shows:
10:28 kados     Vol 12 No 2  	 08/08/2006  	 Arrived
10:28 kados    Vol 12 No 3 	08/08/2006 	Arrived
10:28 kados    Vol 12 No 4 	08/08/2006 	Arrived
10:28 kados    so it is not the 'latest checked in' but the 'first checked in'
10:29 kados    (also note that it seems that Vol 12 No 1 was deleted )
10:30 kados    hdl: (but it displays in serial-issues.pl)
10:30 hdl      Is it a problem in serial table or in the search ?
10:30 kados    i will check the db
10:31 kados    select * from serial:
10:31 kados    has issues 1-7 listed
10:32 kados    select * from subscriptionhistory also has Vol 12 No 1. listed
10:32 kados    so maybe it's just a search prob? or display prob?
10:35 kados    hdl: http://opac.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-serial-issues.pl?biblionumber=59614&selectview=full
10:35 kados    hdl: what is the '1900' tab?
10:36 kados    hdl: only the biblio detail page is missing subscription listings
10:36 kados    hdl: the opac-serial-issues.pl seems to have them all ... even if 1900 is a strange tag
10:36 hdl      1900 : is the name of the no Publication date.
10:37 hdl      I hope ppl will not enter serials up to 1900.
10:37 hdl      I should have change the name.
10:37 kados    hmmm
10:37 hdl      return to biblio... I bet it is behind your lefttab.
10:38 kados    left tab?
10:38 hdl      (left column.)
10:38 kados    http://koha.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/koha/bull/subscription-detail.pl?subscriptionid=1
10:38 kados    I don't see it ... maybe npl templates are missing a link?
10:38 hdl      <h1 class="catalogue">Subscription information for American girl.</h1>
10:39 hdl          <a href="opac-detail.pl?bib=59614" class="button catalogue">Back to biblio</a>
10:39 hdl      in your html code of the page.
10:39 kados    hdl: that's css template
10:39 kados    hdl: for opac
10:40 kados    hdl: http://opac.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=59614
10:40 kados    hdl: also css template
10:40 kados    so in opac-detail.pl, serials listed are not 'most recent' but are 'first'
10:41 kados    in opac-serial-issues.pl? it seems to be fixed
10:41 kados    hdl: does that answer your question?
10:41 hdl      only 3 of them are displayed.
10:42 kados    in  opac-detail.pl?
10:42 hdl      yes.
10:42 kados    it says 'latest issues' but they are not the 'latest' but the 'first'
10:42 hdl      In subscription-detail, it takes the 5 "latest" ones.
10:42 kados    do you see that?
10:43 kados    it is viewed here for instance:
10:43 kados    http://opac.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=59614
10:43 kados    2, 3, 4 ... I think it should be 4, 5, 6 ... right?
10:43 kados    (since I checked in 6 issues?)
10:44 kados    but maybe I missunderstand this description
10:57 kados    hdl: I updated bug 1125 with the new information
10:57 kados    hdl:
10:57 kados    oosp
11:02 kados    owen: got a sec?
11:02 kados    quick question about acquisitions ordering
11:03 kados    it was my understanding that when you search for a vendor, then click 'add order' it took you to a page with a blank order form
11:03 kados    then you would add items to that new order
11:03 kados    but it seems like the behavior is to open an existing order form (basket I guess)
11:04 kados    even in default templates
11:04 kados    http://koha.smfpl.org/cgi-bin/koha/acqui/acqui-home.pl
11:04 kados    (just click on 'OK' for the supplier name search
11:04 kados    you will see several baskets for 'Josh Book Supplies'
11:05 kados    one is open, the others are closed
11:05 kados    or ... is it understood that you have one order at a time per supplier?
11:06 owen     I would think not
11:06 kados    hdl: can you shed light on this question
11:06 kados    paul: or you if you're around?
11:06 owen     I would expect the order link to create a whole new empty order, regardless of how many other open orders there are
11:06 kados    yea, me too
11:06 kados    if we're right, it's another bug with acquisitions :-)
11:07 kados    I guess I just file a bug and if it's invalid, paul or hdl will comment on it
11:09 kados    even if all the baskets are closed
11:09 kados    it still opens up an existing one when I click on 'order'
11:30 owen     kados: about Bug 1137...
11:30 owen     The basket screen looks the same to me in npl and default
11:30 owen     I'm not sure what you're seeing
11:30 kados    let me find a link
11:31 kados    actually ...
11:31 kados    i suspect that bug 1146 is to blame here
11:31 kados    if I can't create a new basket, I can't really test 1137 :-)
11:32 kados    I'll add a note and dependency on 1137 to 1146
11:33 kados    owen: does that make sense?
11:33 owen     Yes
11:36 owen     By the way, I found some new (to me) bugs on zoomopac and added some notes to the NPL wiki about them
11:36 kados    cool, thx
11:37 kados    yea, that parentheses thing is annoying
11:41 hdl      kados: I'm off for dinner.
11:41 hdl      I will come back.
11:41 kados    hdl: ok, thx
11:42 kados    bs
11:42 kados    bbs even :-)