Time  Nick    Message
11:33 kyle    thanks.
11:33 kados   kyle: labs.liblime.com has the livesearch running if you want to see it in action
11:33 kados   kyle: there's something to get you started
11:33 kados   kyle: http://labs.liblime.com//js/livesearch.js
11:33 kyle    I've never worked with AJAX before.
11:32 kyle    ok, I'll check that out. I've been doing a bit of reading on XMLHttpRequest.
11:32 kados   use XMLHttpRequest
11:32 kados   hmmm
11:32 kyle    Are there any resourses you can point me to on POSTING to a webpage from firefox?
11:31 kados   basically you just need to make sure that circulation.xml hands valid xml back
11:31 kados   yea, I don't imagine it'll be that difficult
11:31 kados   cool
11:31 kyle    I don't think I fully understood what you meant the first time you explained it, and this morning the pieces all fell together.
11:30 kados   something like tmpl=xml or something
11:30 kados   yea
11:30 kados   ie, use the same circulation.pl script we have now
11:30 kyle    ok, I get that. I assume we'd have to a a POST argument to make the perl files use the xml template instead of the standard one.
11:30 kados   then you could pretty easily parse that client-side using the standard DOM stuff
11:30 kados   when passed a var
11:29 kados   you could create a mirror tmpl that spat out xml
11:29 kados   well off the top of my head
11:29 kados   right
11:29 kyle    I was wondering if you could give me more detail on your idea of how to get data out of the offline circ extension, and into koha.
11:28 kados   kyle: yep
11:27 kyle    kados: are you around?
10:17 thd     kados: I think it is fine for the outline content it mostly had but I have been trying to put in fuller content and noticing significant problems/
10:16 kados   thd: yea, that would be nice
10:15 thd     slef kados: I remember comment during devel week that we should make the wiki CSS like the one at koha.org.  Pierrick was going to work on that but not having him around is a big loss.
10:15 kados   ahh :-)
10:14 slef    I was trying to explain why lack of complaints doesn't mean it's good ;-)
10:13 kados   thd did submit a fix, but it was just a bit too ugly for public consumption IMO :-)
10:12 slef    I'm just used to sites having broken CSS and I'm usually challenged to fix them if I complain, so I mostly don't complain until I have time to fix if asked.
10:08 thd     kados: as I said there is nothing to complain about if no one has documents that need anything better
10:08 kados   bbl
10:08 kados   I'm willing to change the css if someone has a better alternative, but so far, you're the only one to complain about the current one
10:07 kados   fair enough
10:07 thd     kados: I will test the wiki CSS locally tomorrow to try and make it a little more like the beautiful koha.org CSS.  I consider it to be a significant problem for including anything more than outline content.  I know that my changes were not beautiful but I consider the existing CSS merely decorative and not very functional for full documents.
09:55 thd     kados: I will investigate myself tomorrow
09:55 kados   but I don't have time to investigate that
09:55 kados   you can restrict it to a specific site I think
09:54 kados   thd: yes :-)
09:54 thd     kados: you mean that every web site will have that CSS?
09:54 kados   that should override the site's css and you'll be viewing it as you please :-)
09:53 kados   copy the file you emailed me to userContent.css
09:53 kados   in your browser user profile
09:53 kados   thd: locate your 'crome' dir in your firefox installation
09:52 kados   thd: here's what you can do
09:52 thd     kados: I used the Firefox web developer plugin to test locally but that steals 20% of the screen so it was difficult to see a proper view.
09:50 thd     kados owen-away: the wiki has almost no full documents
09:49 thd     kados owen: you have not seen the problems because they are not apparent without full dcuments
09:49 thd     kados: If I have problems with perfect vision I guarantee people with less than perfect vision have a much worse problem
09:48 kados   thd: have you created a local css before?
09:48 kados   thd: until, as owen says, someone can really work out the kinks of a new one
09:47 kados   thd: I think your sole solution for now is to use a local css to override the existing one :(
09:47 owen    I don't think we should replace it unless someone can really work out the kinks of a new one
09:47 owen    I didn't see the custom one, but I like the default stylesheet just fine.
09:47 thd     kados: there was almost no right margin
09:46 thd     s/vision/vision, but text
09:46 kados   thd: yes, I see that
09:46 thd     s/perfect/perfect, but text
09:45 thd     kados: did you see "I still have than perfect vision with a large body and had trouble following full text in the body."
09:45 kados   thd: yep
09:45 thd     kados: are you back?
09:43 thd     kados: I still have than perfect vision with a large body and had trouble following full text in the body.
09:41 thd     kados: the line lengths are still to long to scan if you have real paragraphs
09:41 kados   thd: to override any css on the web
09:41 kados   thd: also, you can create a local css file for your browser
09:40 kados   size?
09:40 kados   thd: why not just increase the font?
09:40 kados   thd: you have trouble reading the wiki.koha.org site?
09:40 thd     kados: I did not have the time for beauty
09:40 thd     kados: beauty requires time
09:39 thd     kados: i never made a beaurty claim if you read the message.  I only claimed that unreadable was uglier.
09:39 kados   thd: I'm going to revert back to the old one if that's OK
09:38 kados   thd: it seems to be quite ugly :-)
09:38 thd     kados: it goes here http://wiki.koha.org/lib/exe/css.php
09:38 kados   thd: ok, I updated it
09:36 thd     kados check the message
09:36 kados   thd: replace style.css?
09:35 kados   thd: where does it go?
09:34 paul    hoping you won't need 2 days ;-)
09:33 thd     wow what a response
09:32 kados   thd: I will do it now
09:32 thd     kados: will you have a chance to apply my file to fix the wiki CSS some time in the next couple of days?
09:32 hdl     (if paul agrees)
09:32 hdl     I will work on this tonight and tomorow.
09:31 hdl     kados : ok.
09:30 kados   you should see all the bugs I reported immediately
09:30 kados   2. check in 5 issues
09:30 kados   1. create a new subscription
09:30 kados   on one of your installs:
09:30 kados   guys ... can I suggest something?
09:29 paul    strange, because format_date is used a lot of time all around Koha. What it the exact content of the field before the date_format ?
09:29 kados   hdl: either format_date, or else the serials aren't getting the right dates in the first place
09:29 paul    hdl : about ordering => do you know that mySQL has a if() function, that could be used to order by publisheddate if it is not empty, otherwise by the previous date
09:29 hdl     so format_date has a problem.
09:29 hdl     OK.
09:28 kados   hdl: take a look at my response
09:27 kados   http://bugs.koha.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1124
09:27 hdl     No the answer to your comment.
09:27 kados   yep
09:27 hdl     on that bug ?
09:27 kados   yes ... and I responded
09:27 hdl     kados : Have you read my comment ?
09:27 kados   hdl: it's simple? great, should be simple to fix then ;-)
09:26 kados   I need to force that in Biblio.pm I think
09:26 kados   yea, you need to have a leader with position 09 with a value of 'a'
09:25 owen    kados: I created a bare-bones record from scratch. All I filled in was a title.
09:25 hdl     1124 seems to be a simple order pb Is it not ?
09:24 kados   did the record you added it for have a leader?
09:24 kados   that might be a MARC21 prob
09:24 kados   huh ...
09:24 owen    Tag "" is not a valid tag. at /home/oleonard/koha/intranet/modules//C4/Bull.pm line 547
09:24 kados   hmmm ... maybe a 5th then :(
09:24 owen    kados: I tried adding a serial this morning on NPL's test server and got a 500 error
09:23 kados   4 blocker bugs for serials I think
09:23 kados   1140
09:23 kados   I had a client try the new serials and this was based on their report
09:22 kados   serials is broken until those are fixed
09:22 kados   1124, 1136, 1125
09:22 hdl     or next expected issue one ?
09:21 hdl     which one full-serial-issue ?
09:20 kados   hdl: any luck on the serials bugs?
09:20 hdl     yes.
09:20 kados   hdl: you around?
09:09 thd     owen: see http://koha.org/cgi-bin/logs.pl?user=&channel=&action=&text=&user-ddl=&channel-ddl=&action-ddl=&startdate=07%2F08%2F06+15%3A32%3A30&enddate=07%2F08%2F06+15%3A51%3A16&saveas=&save=save for some problems I found.
09:02 thd     or actually even the middle of the week for one person
09:01 thd     owen: I found several problems for readability of full documents on the wiki and I want to link to send people to one of them by the end of the week.
09:00 thd     owen: the default CSS was all on one line, never meant to be human readable.
08:59 thd     owen: I wanted to ask kados to find the time to apply my Docuwiki CSS file revisions within a couple of days.  He only has to copy the file I sent into place
08:56 thd     owen: I think improving the wiki had been a task that pierrick had been addressing, alas no longer.
08:55 owen    Oh. I didn't know that.
08:55 thd     owen: I sent kados an updated CSS on Saturday.  russ told me that he does not have permissions because it is now on a LibLime server.
08:54 owen    Maybe russ?
08:53 owen    No, I'm afraid not
08:53 thd     owen: do you have permissions to update the CSS on the wiki?
08:52 thd     owen: I only need a minute of his attention
08:51 owen    thd: you and I will have to arm-wrestle for his attention when he wakes up ;)
08:46 thd     kados: are you awake yet?
08:42 Mordazy Bye!
08:42 thd     Mordazy: there is a major structural change being worked on now which is transforming how everything works.  That is already partly available in the 2.3 experimental release which should be stable as 2.4 in a few weeks.
08:42 Mordazy but will come here often, I think :)
08:41 Mordazy OK, have to go
08:39 Mordazy once I get system up and running stable, I won`t change it in years :)
08:39 Mordazy actually number of releases doesn`t matter to me
08:38 thd     Mordazy: there may even be a later version in one year
08:38 Mordazy ...and I will finish learning Perl, SQL, PHP and many other things :)
08:37 thd     Mordazy: In one year Koha will be the world's best ILS in version 3.2.
08:36 Mordazy But I wanted to have a working system in 2-3 months to test...
08:36 thd     Mordazy: the biggest bug is that without a comprehensive MARC bibliographic framework only in 2.2.6 for MARC 21 your records loose many fields once you edit them.
08:36 Mordazy Anyway, there will be a year before we implement Koha in our library
08:34 Mordazy you say?
08:34 Mordazy hmmmm
08:34 thd     Mordazy: experimenting with 2.2.4 is fine and has been used at many libraries but I would not feel safe with versions prior to 2.2.6 if I had a library.
08:33 thd     Mordazy: the functions are very similar between 2.2.6 and 2.2.4 except you can loose data and corrupt your records silently in earlier versions.
08:31 Mordazy but now most libraries use M21
08:31 Mordazy thd: yes, we had local variation of Marc
08:30 Mordazy however, I`m learning all of it yet, so I have to stick with what I have :)
08:30 thd     Mordazy: Is MARC 21 used in Poland?
08:29 Mordazy I`ll download 2.2.6 and have a look
08:29 thd     Mordazy: unreported bugs prior to 2.2.6 are very scary
08:28 Mordazy I know, however the man from whom I took Polish files is not very content about it
08:27 thd     Mordazy: the 2.2.6 release candidate is being tested for production release
08:27 Mordazy thd: thanks, I saw that, but for now I must stick with 2.2.4
08:26 thd     Mordazy: http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/koha/
08:26 thd     Mordazy: there are some major changes/bug fixes in the version being prepared for release
08:26 Mordazy it`s strange that nobody wanted such borrower / branch restrictions...
08:25 Mordazy slef: did that
08:24 slef    run updatedatabase (I think it's in scripts... backup database first)
08:23 Mordazy I was told that only minor things were changed
08:20 Mordazy then copied database structure and intranet files from working Polish installation
08:20 Mordazy can`t remember, sorry
08:20 slef    Savannah or Sourceforge?
08:19 Mordazy 2.2.4 from Sourceforge, if I remember correctly
08:18 thd     Mordazy: also where had you downloaded Koha?
08:17 johnb   thd:  Will do.
08:17 thd     Mordazy: branches are certainly provided with policy differentiation
08:17 slef    Mordazy: if you can describe this membership model in more detail to the koha mailing list(s), someone may explain how to do it, or it may be added to a coming version.
08:17 Mordazy but yes, the branches have different policies about membership
08:16 Mordazy the charge is about $6 a year, which is rather symbolic
08:15 Mordazy yes, it is because the branches that charge annual fee are DVD / Audio collections
08:14 thd     about membership
08:14 thd     Mordazy: so branches have different policies
08:14 Mordazy That`s the problem. My library has several branches, some of them charge annual fee
08:13 thd     Mordazy: I think that membership of one branch is usually membership for the library system so I would expect that is default behaviour
08:12 Mordazy thd: pity :(
08:11 Mordazy Also couldn`t verify if a borrower from branch A has restricted access to branch B
08:11 thd     Mordazy:I am not a circulation expert
08:10 Mordazy I haven`t found a way to "attach" a borrower to more than one library branch
08:09 thd     johnb: If they are able to interview Damian Conway, 'mad scientist of Perl', never a dull moment is guaranteed.
08:08 Mordazy however, one thing scared me:
08:08 Mordazy I like it a lot
08:08 Mordazy I`m testing Polish version of Koha 2.2.4
08:07 Mordazy Hello thd
08:07 thd     hello Mordazy
08:06 Mordazy Anybody here?
08:06 Mordazy got a few questions :)
08:06 Mordazy I`m new here
08:06 Mordazy Hello all
08:02 thd     johnb: tell them to interview Eben Moglen, the FSF lawyer and a fantastic very clever energetic speaker, even if they are able to interview Richard Stallman.
08:00 thd     slef: yes, that was the title
07:59 thd     johnb: that film ended with the boost in Red Hat stock price before the bubble collapsed.  Nice participants but poor post-filming editing etc. work diluted the quality of some interesting interviews.
07:59 slef    Revolution OS or something else?
07:56 thd     johnb: they already have a better title than the weak film which I have seen about open source/free software a few years ago.
07:53 johnb   thd:  I have no idea, they have not told us what there distribution plan is at this point
07:51 thd     johnb: is Tipping Point liable to go to cinemas or television first?
07:49 thd     johnb: the longer it takes, the more opportunities will be lost for promoting the interests of even the people who do not even care particularly about a foundation.
07:47 thd     johnb: Koha is not big enough yet to have anyone worried about slighting some one else's interests.
07:45 thd     johnb: if everything is done in the light by people with good will, no one will think it unfair.
07:44 thd     johnb: as long as the structure is somewhat amendable.  A more perfect foundation will never be excluded.
07:42 paul    thd +++
07:41 thd     johnb: we could discuss a more perfect foundation for a year without creating one.  At some point, those who need a foundation have to take some initiative to start something.
07:38 thd     johnb: the principals of Katipo could not attend devel week but their representatives made a reasonable presentation about the prospective stance of Katipo.
07:36 slef    s/open source/free/ ;-)
07:36 thd     johnb: my understanding from devel_week is that Katipo may not agree to anything in particular but they will be happy to support and consider joining a foundation which is proven successful.
07:33 johnb   Paul:  I will post something in the next few weeks and will await comment until mid September before proposing anything.
07:32 johnb   The idea of the movie is to discuss how entities chose to use open source.  The producer is using open source software to produce the movie.
07:32 thd     paul: did you mean that the discussion of the French foundation would probably have to wait until after the summer or any foundation?
07:32 slef    johnb: whassat?
07:31 slef    so much flavour, so much of it bitter
07:31 slef    mmm, english, a language divided unto itself
07:31 slef    not necessarily
07:31 slef    anyway, it's certainly not advertise
07:31 johnb   Not to change to tpic, but Cindy and I are going to be interviewed today by a California movie producer for a documentary entitled "Tipping Point"
07:31 slef    I wonder whether I'd translate promouvoir as promote or advocate, usually.
07:30 thd     paul: English being language soup, lacks that distinction.
07:30 slef    but my french is terrible, as we all know ;-)
07:30 slef    "do promotion" says nothing about commercialism
07:30 slef    I'd translate "faire la promotion" as "do promotion" and "faire une promotion" as "run a promotion"
07:29 paul    "promouvoir" being non commercial only.
07:29 paul    in french, when you say "faire la promotion" => non commercial sense. "faire une promotion" => commercial sense
07:28 johnb   here is a good link to check out: www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#structure
07:28 slef    but not necessarily non-commercial either
07:28 thd     paul: promote is not necessarily commercial in English.
07:28 paul    it will have to be discussed after the summer I think
07:27 paul    ENSMP & sociology proposed on french mailing list a 1st draft for a structure.
07:27 johnb   We need to agree on a mission and then from the mission we can create structure.
07:27 thd     paul: how is work going to set up a Koha foundation in France?
07:27 paul    (french word for "promote" having a strong non-commercial meaning, that i'm not sure exist in english)
07:26 paul    the only important thing being "the association is created to promote the Koha software".
07:26 paul    to let members define exactly what they want to do.
07:26 paul    that's why thes description of the "association loi 1901" in the 1st draft is quite large.
07:25 johnb   Paul:  Hello, Paul
07:25 slef    thd++
07:25 thd     johnb: if you have a reasonable starting point.  The structure should always be amendable by the participants.
07:25 slef    My reservation is the overheads:benefits ratio, but I don't want to prejudge things I don't know enough about.
07:22 thd     johnb: certainly, the process should be open.  I know slef has important comments.  People with actual reservations are seem to express them in terms of a please go ahead and make something great if we like it we will join,
07:22 slef    hi paul
07:22 paul    (hello thd johnb & slef)
07:22 paul    everybody : in France, ENSMP & sociology libraries had a meeting in july, and the "association loi 1901" idea continues to be investigated
07:21 slef    I think the biggest questions are: what are the goals, what are the methods, what are the costs?
07:20 slef    as in, can't remember how it works
07:20 thd     johnb: kados had been the most anxious for having some foundation soon.  I think he became too busy to press for some action after developer week.
07:19 johnb   thd:  Overall I would like the process to be open and have as much comment as possible, it is much easier to change things before they become official
07:19 slef    thd: Unsure. There are certainly many wheels there now. Apache, SPI, ...
07:18 johnb   thd:  overall I think the apache foundation model is pretty good, though we may want to tweak it here and there to fit our unique needs
07:18 thd     ?
07:18 thd     slef: who has the first wheel
07:17 johnb   thd:  I am kinda of busy this week.  Give me a week or so I will create an outline of my thoughts and we can post it to the wiki for comment
07:17 slef    wheel reinvention ;)
07:17 thd     johnb: If the Apache foundation is a good model, then use that model
07:16 johnb   thd:  while at the same time create a forum that can be managed remotely, across national boundaries
07:15 johnb   thd:  the trick in this is creating a structure in which all of the vested interests: developers, users, hosting companies benefit from the foundation
07:15 thd     johnb: if that is your conclusion, I am certain that no one in the present community would object to your proceeding with whatever was officially needed.
07:12 johnb   thd:  It seems to me that we would best to look at the apache foundation they seem to have a structure that works and keeps all of the vested interests represented
07:12 thd     johnb: or what are the good options
07:11 thd     johnb: I what type of structure should we have?
07:11 johnb   thd:  I have been doing some research on what type of structure we should have, I have not done anything else
07:10 thd     johnb: I wanted to know the status of your work on setting up a Koha foundation
07:09 johnb   thd:  what's up?
07:09 thd     johnb: yes
07:08 jbrice_ thd: You lookong for me?
03:49 hdl     !topic  an amazing catalogue :http://www.worldcat.org/
02:32 hdl     yes
02:32 paul    hdl around ?
22:51 thd     russ: most wiki content is brief outlines which do not reveal these problems much
22:48 thd     russ: a CSS like the koha.org CSS would be nice but I did not have that much time to understand all the elements and make as many changes as would be required for that
22:46 thd     russ: I will pester kados to try and change it this week
22:46 thd     russ: however I started to include some fuller documents and it became a real problem to read them
22:45 thd     russ: you would not notice for most wiki content
22:44 thd     russ: low contrast links, a heading style which is anomalously not bold, etc.
22:43 thd     russ:       it      even      uses       justification       which      sometimes      gives      you      this     effect
22:42 thd     russ: that makes full paragraphs difficult to follow
22:41 thd     russ: it has very long lines with no margins at a small font size in the main body text
22:40 thd     russ: oh, yes I remember that it was hosted there now but I thought that you had special access for the wiki
22:39 russ    thd: no, it is on liblimes servers which i dont have access to
22:39 russ    thd: i dont think it is that bad
22:39 thd     russ: woould you be able to install my improved CSS for the wiki if I sent it to you?
22:38 thd     russ: I sent it to kados a day and a half ago but he may be too busy to install it
22:37 thd     russ: I have an improved version for readability
22:36 thd     russ: unfortunately, the default docuwiki CSS is terrible for readability
22:35 thd     russ: I have been starting to create wiki content
22:35 thd     hello russ
22:34 russ    hi thd
22:32 thd     russ: are you there?
12:44 dewey   johnb was last seen on #koha 14 days, 16 hours, 21 minutes and 12 seconds ago, saying: hey guys its been fun but they are starting to shoot motars my way (fireworks) got a get out of here before the building catches on fire. [Sun Jul 23 13:23:27 2006]
12:44 thd     dewey: seen johnb?
12:44 dewey   I haven't seen 'jbrice_', thd
12:44 thd     dewey: seen jbrice_?
12:42 thd     jbrice_: are you there?
12:38 dewey   kados was last seen on #koha 1 days, 3 hours, 17 minutes and 4 seconds ago, saying: paul++ :-) [Sun Aug  6 02:21:11 2006]
12:38 thd     dewey: seen kados?
12:37 dewey   it has been said that kados is becoming a true Perl Monger...
12:37 thd     kados?