Time Nick Message 12:58 kados http://www.oclc.org/research/projects/fast/ 13:02 tumer[A] kados:check mail. Was it clear enough? 13:28 hdl kados around? 13:34 kados hdl: yep 13:34 kados hdl: what's up?/ 13:34 hdl I have a problem 13:34 hdl MacOSX perl Module installation 13:34 hdl It seems It cannot launch make 13:35 hdl Do you know how to cope with it ? 13:36 kados hmmm 13:36 thd hdl: what version of OSX? 13:37 kados hdl: what's the exact error? 13:37 dewey i guess the exact error is just before : 13:37 hdl kados : make command not found. 13:37 kados hdl: and what module? 13:38 kados hdl: it sounds like you need to install the developer's tools 13:38 kados hdl: on the original CD 13:38 kados hdl: Xcode tools 13:38 hdl The first I tried was MARC::Record. 13:38 thd hd: you have to have the developer's tools disc installed, well kados types faster 13:39 hdl But is there a way to install perl Module without building them ? 13:39 kados hdl: yes 13:39 kados hdl: look in the lib dir 13:39 hdl I always use perl -MCPAN -e install ? 13:39 kados hdl: and copy it into your perl path 13:39 kados all make does is run the tests 13:39 kados and copy things over to the right spots 13:39 kados so you can do it manually 13:39 kados it's just a lot of work 13:40 kados hdl: install Xcode tools and it should work properly 13:40 hdl Holy ... 13:40 hdl It is on a machine in switzerland. 13:40 kados hehe 13:40 hdl via ssh. 13:40 kados hmmm 13:40 kados that is a problem :-) 13:41 hdl :D 13:41 thd hdl: the incompatibilities of building things on OSX are also a lot of work 13:41 kados there is no way to install remotely that I know of 13:41 thd kados: I suspect there is a way 13:41 kados hdl: one way would be via VNC 13:41 thd hdl: is this the server version of the software? 13:42 hdl I think it is MacOSX Server Edition. 13:42 kados hdl: http://tomclegg.net/xcode-remote-install 13:42 thd hdl: in any case, you can download the developer's tools 13:42 kados hdl: I'm not responsible if it breaks their system :-) 13:43 kados hdl: so according to that guy you can do it 13:43 thd hdl: you should also install fink which has ports from Debian so that you can install things correctly 13:44 thd hdl: you need developer's tools first 13:45 thd hdl: you have to match versions correctly so be certain you know which animal panther, cheetah, etc you have OS 10.? 13:46 hdl kados : Is there any tricks I should be aware of before installing ? 13:46 hdl For instance : apache is named httpd 13:46 kados i only run OSX as a desktop 13:46 kados don't have KOha installed 13:47 kados I use debian sarge for all koha installations 13:47 thd hdl: you should get a copy of "OSX for Unix Geeks" 13:47 hdl services are launched with service httpd restart 13:47 thd hdl: I successfully installed Koha 2.2 on OSX. 13:48 shedges thd: did your install include the Z3950 search? 13:49 thd shedges: I wasted months trying to find an alternative a year ago 13:50 shedges me, too. I thought maybe somebody had solved the problem. 13:50 thd shedges: so no, I would have needed to recompile Apache and that might have broken other things so I refused to do more work on OSX after a certain point. 13:52 thd shedges, hdl, kados: Apple made OSX sufficiently different from FreeBSD, that doing work on the command line in the proper Unix way was a recurring exercise in frustration for minor incompatibilities 13:54 thd hdl: I did get things to work but I had to Google to workaround errors too often for installing some things from source 13:54 thd hdl: Koha should not be a major problem 13:54 hdl thd: Do you have some guidelines for Koha Installations ? 13:55 thd hdl: It was too long ago to remember except that you need to install the developer tools and I would recommend installing Fink. 13:57 thd hdl: I remember some problems with the directory where OSX puts man pages 13:58 thd hdl: Google searches on site:macosxhints.com are helpful 14:01 thd hdl: often you may find that you want to install things with a different version than what apple provides fink has a separate non-conflicting directory for doing just that 14:07 thd hdl: I really needed the OSX for Unix Geeks book to find my way around how Apple renamed everything etc. The book also has some undocumented commands 14:12 thd kados: where is tumer's message? 14:14 hdl thd: Many thx. 14:16 thd hdl: you are quite welcome. OSX is great for the GUI but is not what you want to install Unix software on if you had a choice. 17:43 thd kados: are you there? 18:05 thd tumer hello 18:05 thd tumer: what was the message that you sent? 18:05 tumer hi i am still strugling 18:06 tumer oh i sent a report to ID about the issue we discussed 18:06 thd tumer: with what are you still struggling? 18:06 thd tumer: kados thought of a way around the problem for some cases 18:07 tumer like ??? 18:09 thd tumer: you could put record IDs which needed matching into some local use filed and index on the local use field which would then be the same field for bibliographic and holdings records. 18:09 thd s/filed/field/ 18:10 tumer thd: i think i could not let myself be understood very well. give me a mail address and i will send you an email 18:11 thd tumer: you could then have 99X for the bibliographic ID in both bibliographic and authority records 18:12 thd s/authority/holdings/ 18:12 tumer authority and bibliographic works fine 18:13 thd tumer: try koha at agogme.com 18:14 thd tumer well it is the authority records about which I have the greatest concern 18:15 tumer agogme.com what do i do there? 18:15 thd tumer: I want to be able to search the references and tracings for multiple authority records and return bibliographic records 18:15 thd tumer did you not want an email address? 18:16 tumer yes your email please 18:16 thd tumer: koha at agogme.com 18:16 tumer oops sorry 18:19 tumer thd:koha-dvel already does that 18:20 tumer we do the similar thing with items as well 18:20 tumer search biblios and retrive related items -- no problem 18:20 tumer or vice versa 18:21 tumer but SQL like JOIN is what we are after 18:22 tumer i want to be able to limit the search to 120,000 records out of 200,000 depending which criteria i put in like a branch 18:27 thd tumer: yes, had you posted to koha-devel? 18:28 tumer not yet 18:30 thd oh I have the message now 18:32 thd tumer: how did you implement the recursive search of IDs? What was recursive about your search? 18:34 tumer well search author and get 1000 records search branch main get 120,000 records then do a serach of 1000 biblionumbers within 120,000 18:34 tumer result gives yo 121 records 18:35 thd tumer I guess it is recursive if each record must search for its own ID again 18:35 tumer yes you do 1000 times 18:37 thd tumer: do you have problems with one database failing to respond if you search multiple databases in the same domain? 18:38 thd s/domain/server/ 18:38 tumer no but try 1000 searches of biblionumbers one after the other and everything is standstill 18:39 thd tumer: will you not have the same issue when you have 1000 simultaneous users? :) 18:40 tumer not really, scripts work faster then fingers 18:41 thd tumer: so 1000 simultaneous users is really only ten simultaneous users? 18:42 tumer and they only retrieve some records while i have to retrive all 1000 extract biblionumbers then do a search for each get 120 results 18:48 thd tumer: I hope Index data supports record linking. I think they must because they helped with a demo system that must have had linked record indexes. 18:49 tumer demo where? 18:50 tumer can we look at it? 18:50 thd tumer: it has not been working for a few weeks and it is years old 18:51 thd tumer: I think Index Data forgot about it 18:51 tumer well lets hope and wait 18:53 thd tumer: maybe they never ran that whole system but they had won the contract to help build it 18:55 thd kados: are you there? 18:55 thd kados: FAST is not a solution for records with LCSH 18:57 thd kados: FAST was Chan's idea from a decade ago to simplify LCSH for the era when no one knew how to catalogue anymore 02:06 osmoze hello #koha 02:11 btoumi hi all 02:19 osmoze bonjour btoumi 02:19 btoumi bonjour osmoze 02:19 btoumi comment va ce matin? 02:22 osmoze ca va ca va, comme un lundi :) et toi ? 02:26 btoumi osmoze : on est mardi??? ca devait etre une blague :=) 02:27 osmoze ah oui, mais non c est pas une blague, je bosse le samedi donc votre mardi c est mon lundi :) 02:27 btoumi lol 02:27 btoumi ok 02:27 btoumi j'ai travailler pendant cinq ans le samedi donc je te comprend 02:29 osmoze ^^ 02:29 btoumi osmoze : et ton travail d'investigation sur koha avance? 02:29 osmoze c est les joies de travailler en bib de lecture publique :/ 02:29 osmoze btoumi, d investigation de ? 02:29 btoumi sur koha =>test ect. 02:31 osmoze non pas en ce moment, je suis en pleine reinstallation du parc des pc publics et interne. Le grand ménage d été. ALors en ce moment, koha n'est pas la priorité ^^ 02:33 osmoze d'ailleurs, je dois me rendre dans un autre centre, @ plus tard 02:34 btoumi ah ok 02:34 paul tada ... my internet connexion works ! 02:34 btoumi yesssssssssssss! 02:34 btoumi bonne nouvelle pour Paul 02:47 qiqo ei help.. 02:48 paul toins : tu peux réintégrer le bureau quand tu veux ;-) 02:48 qiqo bonjour paul 02:48 qiqo tu peux m'aide? 02:48 toins paul, Ah trop bien !!! 02:49 qiqo im getting this error message while updating koha to 2.3.0 not well-formed (invalid token) at line 2, column 8, byte 9 at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.6/i486-linux/XML/Parser.pm line 187 02:49 qiqo from 2.2.5 to 2.3.0 02:49 toins paul, la je n'ai pas de voiture dans l'immediat... donc cet après midi 02:50 chris theres about 0% chance that an upgrade from 2.2.5 to 2.3.0 will work 02:50 qiqo ah really? 02:50 chris just installing 2.3.0 and getting it to work is very hard 02:50 qiqo why is that so chris? 02:50 chris yes, 2.3.0 is purely a development release 02:52 chris http://savannah.nongnu.org/forum/forum.php?forum_id=4530 02:52 qiqo :( 02:52 chris tells you a little bit more about it 02:52 qiqo ah aryt i understand 02:52 chris if you actually want to use it, id wait for a 2.4.x release 02:53 chris if the second number is an odd number 02:53 chris then its unstable/development and only *might* work 02:53 qiqo ermm ok so i have another question... how do i reset the Z3950 module 02:53 chris if its even, like 2.2 or 2.4 ... then it should work 02:53 qiqo ahh ok now i understand 02:54 chris to go back down to a previous version? hmm not sure about that 02:54 chris i think just get the older version and install that 02:54 chris but im not sure about that 02:54 qiqo yup im doing that as of the moment 02:55 qiqo i run koha.upgrade or 2.2.5 02:55 qiqo ok im back with 2.2.5 02:57 qiqo my Z3950 module isnt working 02:58 chris did you upgrade it when you were trying to upgrade to 2.3 ? 02:59 qiqo nope, the upgrade never finalised 03:00 hdl hello all 03:00 qiqo hello hdl 03:00 chris was the z3950 working before you started upgrading? 03:00 chris hi hdl 03:00 qiqo nope it wasnt.. actually i just finished installing 2.2.5 a while ago 03:00 qiqo then i attempted an upgrade 03:00 chris its a bit tricky to get going 03:01 chris the main thing to check is do you have z3950 daemon running? 03:01 qiqo according to the mailing list, after adding a z3950 server i have to restart the daemon 03:02 chris maybe, but i dont think so, you do need to have the daemon running though 03:02 chris it will log 03:02 chris to /usr/local/koha/log/ 03:02 chris so you can see what its doing 03:03 qiqo i think it's not running 03:03 qiqo my query is included in the koha-errorlog 03:04 chris z3950-daemon-launch.sh 03:04 chris is the script to start it 03:04 chris in /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon 03:04 qiqo yup 03:05 qiqo how do you know if its loaded? 03:06 chris what happens when you type 03:06 chris ps axf | grep "z3950" 03:06 chris should get something like 03:06 chris 1999 pts/17 S 0:00 su -c /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/z3950-daemon-shell.sh - www-data 03:06 chris 2000 pts/17 S 0:04 \_ /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/processz3950queue /usr/local/koha/log 03:06 qiqo 4904 pts/1 S+ 0:00 | | \_ grep z3950 03:06 chris right its not running then 03:07 qiqo errmm.. 03:07 chris in /usr/local/koha/log 03:07 chris are there any files like 03:07 chris z3950-daemon-20060725-2005.log 03:07 qiqo yup 03:07 qiqo there is one 03:07 chris todays date? 03:07 qiqo yup 03:08 chris what does it say? 03:08 qiqo Bareword "Net::Z3950::RecordSyntax::USMARC" not allowed while "strict subs" in use at /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/processz3950queue line 260. 03:08 chris there we go, thats why its not starting 03:09 chris 2 secs i think i remember the fix for this 03:09 qiqo line 260 says: eval { $conn->option(preferredRecordSyntax => 03:10 qiqo i think the problem is betweenMARC21 andUS marc 03:10 qiqo are MARC21 and USMARC alike? because my teacher in library science told me that they are somewhat different 03:10 chris you could try commenting that line out 03:11 qiqo oh its running 03:13 qiqo ohh nope false alarm 03:13 qiqo ehehe its still is not running 03:13 chris anything else in the error log now/ 03:13 qiqo Bareword "Net::Z3950::RecordSyntax::UNIMARC" not allowed while "strict subs" in use at /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/processz3950queue line 261. 03:14 qiqo ill have the two commented out 03:14 qiqo then ill try again 03:14 chris right 03:16 chris actually 03:16 qiqo heres what i get in ps: 4950 pts/1 S 0:00 /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/processz3950queue /usr/local/koha/log 03:17 chris try making it $Net::Z3950 .... 03:17 chris ie add the $ 03:17 chris that looks like its running 03:18 qiqo hurrah 03:19 qiqo still im not getting results from the library of congress 03:19 qiqo :( 03:20 chris whats the log tell you 03:20 chris loc doesnt have the most reliable server 03:21 chris you could try monash 03:21 qiqo what servers can i use? 03:21 qiqo the logs are blank 03:21 chris zconn.lib.monash.edu.au 03:21 chris 7090 03:21 chris did you do an isbn search or a title one? 03:22 chris db is voyager for monash 03:22 qiqo yup 03:22 chris which one isbn? 03:22 qiqo harry potter 1 03:22 qiqo the isbn of hp 03:23 qiqo then i tried harry potter 03:23 chris the little popup windows comes up, but never gets any results? 03:25 qiqo none 03:25 qiqo no results found 03:25 qiqo and i dont get any popup windo 03:25 chris umm you should thats were the results show up in 03:26 chris so you go to add biblio, choose add new biblio? 03:26 qiqo no popups :( 03:26 qiqo yeah 03:27 chris you end up with at a page with a bunch of fields 03:27 qiqo yeah marc inputs 03:27 chris where you can enter marc into eh? 03:27 qiqo tags etc.. 03:27 qiqo yup 03:27 chris and you entered stuff in the isbn one? 03:27 chris and hit z3950 search? 03:27 qiqo errmm.. y ou are actually adding a new book then right? 03:28 qiqo i need the Z3950 feature... 03:28 chris no 03:28 chris thats how the z3950 works 03:29 chris there is a z3950 search button on that page 03:29 qiqo ahhh 03:29 chris that should open a popup and start searching servers 03:29 qiqo yeah 03:30 qiqo still no results found 03:30 chris if you are lucky you get some results that you can then click on the record, and it will populate your table 03:30 chris does it say ?? requests to go 03:30 chris and does the log say anything now 03:31 qiqo zconn.lib.monash.edu.au 03:31 qiqo ah sorry 03:31 qiqo Still ?? requests to go <--i get this 03:31 chris right 03:31 chris i get stuff like this in my log 03:32 chris @attr 1=4 "freakonomics" at /usr/local/koha/intranet/scripts/z3950daemon/processz3950queue line 279. 03:32 chris 2007/86 : Processing title=freakonomics at MONASH zconn.lib.monash.edu.au:7090 voyager MARC21 (1 forks) 03:32 qiqo i only get blank logs 03:33 qiqo 0B in size 03:33 chris hmm, well i gotta go sorry. Hopefully some of the other ppl can help 03:34 qiqo aww.. 03:34 qiqo huhu :'( 03:34 chris 8.30 here, and i should spend some time with my wife .. before i get banned from the computer 03:34 chris :) 03:34 qiqo heheh 03:34 qiqo alright 03:34 qiqo thank you very much sir 03:35 qiqo these would help 03:35 chris no problem, good luck with it 03:40 qiqo hayz... 03:53 qiqo hmmm 04:03 qiqo ei i have a question, in 2.2.5 do we still need the API2:PDF v 0.3r77?? 04:04 paul yep qiqo 04:04 qiqo or any version of API2::PFF will do? 04:04 paul no 04:04 qiqo errm.. does perl stil host the file? 04:05 qiqo ok ill start googling 04:05 qiqo hehe :) 04:12 qiqo hi ozmoze!! 04:12 qiqo oh hes gone 04:39 paul toins_: tu as vu http://www.silicon.fr/articles/16119/Trois-heures-de-panne-pour-les-clients-ADSL-Orange.html 04:40 toins_ paul: je regarde 04:40 toins_ ah oui... nous l'avons vécu cette pane ! 04:41 paul ca confirme que c'était bien général et coté wanamou 04:43 toins_ yep 07:14 paul toins_: are u around ? 07:15 toins_ yep 07:15 toins_ i'm here 08:03 paul hdl around ? 08:52 paul hello agains, everybody 08:52 paul is kados around or still away ? 08:52 tumer hi paul 08:52 paul hi tumer 08:52 dewey i heard hi tumer was still strugling 08:53 tumer yes dewey and still 08:53 paul aren't you too disappointed by ID answer (about merging data results) 08:53 tumer very much 08:53 tumer so we have to keep holdings data in biblios 08:54 tumer my mistake was i misssed this and finished the writing of whole new API for it ready to go 08:55 paul :-( 08:55 paul sorry for you 08:56 tumer i wish i knew some xml xsl and xslt 09:34 slef Hello all! 09:34 paul hi slef 09:35 slef Finally I stop doing VOIP and VPN and can get back on web sites more-or-less full-time. 09:36 slef Soon I will need to update my Koha installation to be useful again. Should I aim for rel_2_6 or HEAD? 09:37 paul good question. depends on what you plan to do. 09:38 paul head and/or dev_week are definetly for w@rl0rds developpers. 09:38 slef priorities: get a working koha, fix the installer 09:39 slef (as in fix the new installer) 09:39 paul so, rel_2_2 09:47 kados paul: I've replied to your email 09:47 kados hi all 09:47 paul kados, yes, i've seen & read the mail. 09:47 paul I had a question for you, about your recent commit : 09:47 kados paul: http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.php?id=koha226bugs 09:47 paul it's about addbiblio.pl, once again. 09:48 kados paul: don't know if you've seen this report or not 09:48 paul it don't work anymore, with NPL or default templates. 09:48 kados yep 09:48 kados addbiblio-- 09:48 paul with default, I have an empty screen & with NPL, authority report don't work anymore. 09:48 paul addbibio-- ??? 09:49 kados I'm very sorry 09:49 kados it's never worked correctly for MARC21 records 09:49 paul do you mean MARC21 or npl templates ? 09:49 kados but I seem to have broken your stuff in my attempt to fix 09:49 kados MARC21 09:50 paul imho, addbiblio is a proof that we must use only 1 set of templates in Koha. 09:50 kados yep 09:50 paul could you explain your problems ? 09:50 paul I could revert your commit & try to fix them myself 09:51 kados you can revert my latest commit 09:51 kados it was mistake 09:51 kados a mistake even 09:51 kados I can show you the problems when you do revert it 09:52 paul OK, i'll revert immediatly, let me 10mn to finish what i'm working on, and then I revert. 09:52 kados k, ping me when done 09:52 paul + look at my today commits, I think i've solved some/few acquisition problems you reported on koha226bugs 09:52 paul (the receive one at least) 10:09 owen kados, you around? 10:12 kados owen: sure am 10:12 kados owen: glad to see you back :-) 10:12 owen I came in to find a note saying the internet was up and down all day yesterday, so who knows how long I'll be back 10:12 kados owen: just going through our todo list 10:13 kados owen: 100 is still in sync with dev_week 10:13 owen zoomopac? 10:13 dewey zoomopac is probably stock dev-week with only minor changes to searching soon to be committed 10:13 kados owen: yea 10:13 kados owen: just added isbn search 10:15 owen The "most recent additions" search doesn't seem to be working 10:15 kados hmmm ... 10:16 kados they might not all work 10:16 kados DVD does though 10:16 kados and by work, I mean that it relies on what's in the record 10:16 kados and in some cases, the date is listed as 2099-x-x 10:16 kados more preprocessing for me to do and it's on my list already 10:17 kados eg: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-MARCdetail.pl?bib=139954 10:17 kados date acquired is: 202004-02-04 10:17 kados which is obviouly more recent than anything with 2006- :-) 10:17 slef Got a strange problem with z39.50 search in a 2.2.5 system - everything is returning "Nothing found" even if the daemon finds it. I'll read the debug log once I return in a bit, but any tips welcome. 10:18 kados slef: using Net::Z3950? or Net::Z3950::ZOOM? 10:18 slef owen: hi, by the way. 10:18 slef kados: whatever's default. Net::Z3950? 10:19 kados slef: your best bet on that is upgrading to Net::Z3950::ZOOM and grabbing the latest code from rel_2_2 10:19 kados slef: troubleshooting the 2.2.5 version has been known to drive one mad 10:21 kados owen: the queries on all those are correct 10:21 kados owen: so if they don't work as expected, look to the record 10:21 kados well, it's a problem we can fix :-) 10:22 kados why call number sorting isn't working has got me stumped 10:23 kados owen: 'fix the “bold_titleâ€Â? in search results page' 10:23 kados owen: is that where the search query used to be hilighted? 10:23 owen Yeah, that was a long time ago. 10:24 owen (in dev_week terms) 10:24 kados owen: well, I can add it back, just tell me what you want the term to be wrapped in 10:24 kados owen: a span? 10:24 kados with a specific clas? 10:24 kados class even 10:24 kados <span class="term"></span> maybe? 10:25 owen Sure, why not 10:26 kados k ... 10:28 owen So kados bring me up to date on what you've been working on. 10:29 kados sure 10:29 kados mainly, over the weekend, I worked on the OPAC 10:30 kados my goal was to clean up all the OPAC scripts and remove all redundent/obsolete data 10:30 kados and fulfil some of the usability feedback I've gotten from various places 10:31 owen Like what? 10:31 kados well, I've gotten numerous comments that all account-related stuff should be in one place 10:31 kados or at least in one area 10:32 kados several people didn't understand why the book bag link was above search results 10:32 kados they expected it to be in the 'account' section 10:33 kados several clients also didn't understand why there were so many of the same link on a given page 10:33 kados the 'Search Home' link on http://search.athenscounty.lib.oh.us/ 10:34 owen Book bags aren't tied to accounts 10:34 kados is also called 'library catalog' 10:34 kados in the opacnav 10:34 kados which several people found confusing 10:34 kados I agree book bags aren't tied to accounts 10:35 kados but conceptually, that's where people seem to want them 10:35 kados at least based on the feedback I solicited 10:35 owen It's getting into shaky territory, because we can't lead people to believe that the book bag is saved with their account settings. 10:35 kados I cleaned up all the opac scripts to use the new API (hopefully didn't miss anything) 10:36 kados added a resident search to the masthead that should show up on all screens 10:36 kados modified how the searchdesc displays 10:37 kados 'search' returned X results is always resident but not a large thematic element 10:37 kados added a rss feed icon 10:37 owen How does that work? 10:37 kados floated the re-sort list to the right to free up space 10:37 kados the rss relies on the OpenSearch plugin I haven't committed yet 10:38 kados so the feed is actually generated from amazon.com (though we can generate feeds natively ... I just didn't get around to it) 10:38 kados s/amazon.com/a9.com/ 10:38 kados lets see ... 10:38 kados opac-main has had a complete facelift 10:39 kados in preperation for a couple features I've been working on 10:39 kados they are: 10:39 owen opac-main seems to be empty! 10:39 kados yep 10:39 kados 1. 4-5 items related to items you've previously checked out 10:40 kados 2. 4-5 items pulled from a given staff list (virtual shelf) 10:40 kados 3. 4-5 items recently returned 10:40 kados so the idea was, make the main page more interactive 10:41 kados if they need to do a search, they can do it from any page 10:41 kados advanced search is always visible (in opacnav) 10:41 kados and then there's the new facets feature 10:42 owen Is that in an iframe? 10:42 kados (before I get to that ... 10:42 kados no iframe 10:42 owen Just overflow? 10:42 kados yea, it's overflow 10:43 kados the content is in javascript 10:43 kados yep, you'll get that 10:43 kados I turned on overflow: auto to enable that 10:43 kados because sometimes the list goes beyond the space designated 10:45 kados all of my design choices were made from looking at the following sites: 10:46 kados http://aqua.queenslibrary.org/ 10:46 kados http://www.amazon.com 10:46 kados http://firstsearch.oclc.org 10:46 kados http://search.ebay.com 10:46 kados http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/ 10:47 kados as well as the 'don't make me think' book 10:48 kados as far as facets go 10:49 paul kados, could you explain me what "facets" means pls ? 10:49 kados paul: if you do a search, the faceted results are those listed on the left-hand side under 'Subject' Authors' 'series' 10:50 kados paul: it is a compilation of all of a given aspect of the results 10:50 kados paul: such as subject, author, etc. 10:50 kados owen: so facets ... 10:51 kados will be completely re-written from a functional POV 10:51 kados probably to follow the FAST guidelines: http://www.oclc.org/research/projects/fast/ 10:51 kados as far as display, I plan to only show the first 3-5 10:52 owen 3-5 what? 10:52 dewey -2 10:52 kados and hide the rest within a final one called 'see X more' 10:52 owen Thanks dewey! 10:52 kados 3-5 of each type of facet 10:52 kados so for instance, a search on neal stephenson 10:52 kados has: 10:52 kados Subjects 10:52 dewey Subjects are authority controlled 10:52 kados Scientists 10:52 kados Treasure trove 10:53 kados Kings and rules 10:53 kados See 25 more 10:53 kados Series 10:53 kados The Baroque cycle 10:53 kados Volume two of The Baroque cycle 10:53 kados A Bandam spectra book. 10:53 kados Authors 10:53 kados Stephenson, Neal 10:54 kados that way, the user won't have to scroll down to see that there are multiple types of facets 10:54 kados the final thing I did was the 'remove search' and 'further limit search to' 10:54 kados and the 'default facets' 10:55 kados default facets show up when there hasn't been a search 10:55 kados the others allow refining the current search to include additional characteristics 10:55 kados well ... 'Further limit' does 10:56 kados (and only works with CCL queries at the moment) 10:56 kados well ... that's enough to fill a book :-) 10:57 kados owen: comments, questions? 10:57 paul kados : addbiblio.pl reverted. http://i5.bureau.paulpoulain.com/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl works (login test/test) 10:57 kados paul: did you change templates too? 10:57 kados paul: or are they stock cvs? 10:57 paul mmm... the default templates are OK 10:57 paul npl ones are not. 10:58 kados I suspect MARC21 doesn't work in default templates 10:58 kados I will test that first 10:58 kados using default 10:58 paul but I haven't MARC21 DB 10:58 paul (if you have a small one, throw me a link to DL it) 10:58 kados ok 10:59 owen How is 'remove search' supposed to work? 10:59 kados owen: you click on it and it takes you back to the advanced search page :-) 10:59 kados owen: it's pretty minimal at the moment 11:00 kados owen: but eventually I'd like it to be a search history 11:00 kados owen: I'm not 100% sure that the js hierarchy is the best way to do that 11:00 kados owen: but it was pretty quick for a prototype mechanism 11:02 paul kados : http://i8.bureau.paulpoulain.com/cgi-bin/koha/acqui.simple/addbiblio.pl is now UNIMARC with NPL templates (login test/test as well) 11:04 owen kados: my instinct is to say that the js hierarchy is too complex for our users 11:04 owen Particularly when the 'nodes' hardly ever contain more than one item each 11:04 kados owen: well that will change 11:07 owen How so? 11:09 kados well ... I can't explain the specifics because I haven't figured it out completely 11:09 owen :) 11:09 kados thd and I spent a good deal of the weekend pondering LC subjects 11:10 kados they present some pretty interesting puzzles :-) 11:10 kados owen: there were 5 original proposed ways to nest a given subject in a hierarchy: 11:10 kados http://kados.org/subject_hierarchy.html 11:10 kados and now we discovered OCLC's FAST project 11:11 kados so that's a 6th that I haven't taken the time to discect yet 11:11 kados but one of those 6 will be used 11:11 thd kados: and Chan used a non-LC heading as an example 11:12 kados thd: right ... 11:12 thd kados: so I have erred in the absence of an authority file 11:13 kados thd: to err is human :-) 11:13 kados :-) 11:14 owen I like the 'narrow results by' options on the NCSU site 11:15 owen But I'm confused about what we're trying to do with facets...expand or narrow or both? 11:15 thd kados: there are still 5 examples did you mean 5? 11:15 kados good question 11:15 kados thd: the sixth is FAST from OCLC 11:15 kados owen: good question 11:15 thd kados: what I am hoping we would do is change 11:15 thd kados: FAST does nothing for legacy records 11:16 kados thd: good point 11:16 kados owen: well, I think for the OPAC, expanding is probably the goal 11:16 kados owen: for the Intranet, I think staff will want narrowing 11:16 kados owen: so both :-) 11:16 thd kados: FAST is a system for how records might be subject coded when none of the cataloguers know how to subject code any longer 11:17 kados thd: that description fits NPL :-) 11:18 owen I like that the NCSU sidebar: is a simple list; has limited results for each facet; has a 'show more' link 11:18 thd kados: the problem with FAST is that all subject strings are very short so there is no way to specify the two narrow questions that a work may treat 11:19 kados owen: yep, we could do it that way 11:19 kados owen: the js was just for fast prototyping 11:19 owen I also like the way NCSU handles the narrowing process: you can delete the additional search terms by clicking an X in the results screen 11:19 kados owen: and I think they use FAST for display, or a subset of it 11:19 thd kados: when everything is top level you have no way to associate which strings belong together. 11:20 thd kados: FAST is subject soup. 11:20 kados owen: where is that? 11:21 thd kados: LCSH are a mess but a reasonably precise mess. 11:21 owen Above the search results: 11:21 owen "Search 'something': Early works to 1800 [remove] : England [remove] : Doctrines [remove] 11:21 owen We found 2 matching items. " 11:21 kados owen: I also like the sutle use of color for checked out vs available 11:21 kados owen: ahh, very nice, I see it now 11:21 kados owen: we could easily do that 11:24 owen I think the Queens Library search is way too complex 11:27 owen kados: How can I best be of help? 11:33 thd owen: what is too complex about a search that is too simplistic? 11:34 owen What do you mean thd? 11:34 thd owen: I would agree that it is not intuitive 11:35 thd owen: I think the progressive hierarchy of subject subdivisions implied by the Queens library search is mistaken 11:35 kados owen: paul has just fixed addbiblio in rel_2_2 11:36 kados owen: so one thing we need to do is sync default and npl templates 11:36 owen Okay. 11:36 thd owen: I think that the search should be faceted by place topic time and form 11:38 thd owen: I think that such subject elements from the same facet should be grouped together in the same facet for extending the search 11:39 thd owen: I suspect that kados will not go so far as adding the facility to browse for other terms to use in the same facet but I will in future 11:43 tumer hi all 11:44 tumer kados:i am in pain with mikes answer 11:44 kados tumer: I can imagine :( 11:45 tumer so no more holdings records 11:45 kados tumer: even if we stored them in the same db with different indexing rules 11:45 kados tumer: I think two queries is too many :( 11:46 tumer i am reverting back to dev_week 11:46 paul the next question being : does it mean we forget storing the issues informations in zebra too ? 11:46 tumer paul:no 11:46 tumer we already do that 11:47 paul but it seems updating biblio + item for each issue/return is too much CPU consumming isn't it ? 11:47 paul s/seems/seemed/ 11:47 kados it might be 11:47 kados plus in dev week, we do: 11:47 kados * store in items table 11:47 tumer that is another matter i am investigating 11:47 kados * store in zebra 11:47 kados so two operations with each circ, rather than just one 11:48 tumer waiting to see if it is windows issue only 11:48 paul store in items or issues table ? 11:48 kados tumer: waiting to see if what is windows issue only? 11:48 paul in 2.2, it's just in issues & calculated on the fly 11:48 kados paul: sorry, issues 11:48 paul ah, ok. 11:49 kados if we want to search by availability, we must store in zebra 11:49 kados and several clients want this feature 11:49 kados so the next question is: how can we speed up saving records to zebra? 11:49 paul by doing a commit only once every 10mn with shadow DB, iirc 11:49 kados one idea I had was to do a batch 'commit' operation once every 5 minutes or so 11:50 kados paul: you beat me :-) 11:50 paul so, no more commit in koha, but in crontab. 11:50 kados right ... one possible solution 11:50 paul sounds like an accepatble plan to me. 11:50 kados but it should be a syspref 11:50 kados IMO 11:50 kados because code already exists to commit with every operation 11:50 paul I agree, because for small libraries it won't be a problem 11:51 kados right 11:51 paul (or for large ones, with a few circ) 11:51 kados yep 11:51 kados and for libraries where accuracy is more important than speed 11:51 paul so I was right when I heard the systempref crying, 5mn ago ;-) 11:51 kados :-) 11:51 tumer i already added a batch commit sysypref 11:52 paul tumer is faster than lucky luke 11:52 paul (if you know this cartoon) 11:52 tumer yep 11:52 tumer but my pistol is aching today 11:53 thd owen, kados: see Norgad et. al. The Online catalog : from technical services to access service. In Advances in librarianship. v. 17. 11:54 thd the title does not do justice to the content 11:54 kados heh 11:56 kados thd: I will probably not have time to work on facets today 11:56 kados thd: maybe later this evening or tomorrow 11:56 thd kados: well later this evening or tomorrow would be good 11:56 kados thd: :-) 11:59 paul bye bye everybody, see you on thursday