Time  Nick        Message
11:55 kados       :-)
11:55 tumer       kados:it tries to read every file and sometimes goes crazy saying they dont have id's so best to have marc records only
11:54 kados       ahh ... tumer is probably right, i have not tested this extensively
11:54 kados       only files with an excension of .iso2709 will be noticed
11:54 tumer[A]    sometimes does not ignore them
11:54 tumer[A]    only with marc records
11:54 kados       but they will be ignored
11:53 kados       it can contain other things
11:53 paul        the /path/to/record being a directory with only this file, or can contains other things ?
11:53 kados       and put in /path/to/records
11:53 kados       file must be named *.iso2709
11:53 tumer[A]    paul one big chunck
11:53 kados       all in one file
11:52 paul        so we have to export all of them in 1 big file (using export/export.pl) or 1 for each biblio ?
11:52 paul        zebraidx -g iso2709 -c /koha/etc/zebra-biblios.cfg -d kohaplugin update /path/to/records => /path/to/records is the path to all records, right ?
11:51 dewey       kados is probably becoming a true Perl Monger...
11:51 paul        kados ?
11:42 thd         kados: OK I have to go now in any case
11:41 thd         kados: tumer has it by not needing repeated fields just repeated holdings records
11:40 kados       thd: but don't have the time today to discuss deeply
11:40 kados       thd: and I think we're very close
11:40 kados       thd: I really want to resolve the standard holdings issues
11:40 kados       thd: sorry, got a lot on my plate right now
11:39 thd         kados: why was it so difficult to think of the simplest most efficient solution for standard holdings?
11:36 thd         monopolies in action
11:35 thd         paul: I will have optical fibre or a hole in a foundation wall before the telephone company will replace a circuit box from the 60s.
11:33 thd         paul: I have cheap dial-up because my building has the wrong too old equipment for cheaper DSL and the telephone company will not replace it.
11:32 paul        i've DSL at ToinS home. I may be able to have a dial up, but it's very expensive
11:31 thd         ?
11:31 thd         paul: do you have dial-up
11:31 paul        my move is done. but still no DSL
11:31 kados       thd: no time for a meeting today
11:30 thd         paul: you are still moving?
11:30 paul        i'm at ToinS home, so I will not be here everytime
11:30 kados       paul: :-)
11:30 kados       paul: and don't expect searching to work except at opac-zoomsearch.pl
11:30 thd         no
11:30 thd         welcome back paul
11:30 paul        i'm not back thd
11:30 kados       paul: only npl are tested
11:30 thd         now that paul is back
11:30 thd         kados: will there be a meeting today?
11:29 paul        kados/tumer/thd : which templates are OK for dev_week ? npl ?
11:29 kados       thd: I'll take a look
11:29 thd         kados: in his case he found that an attempt to add an authorised heading was filling 690 instead of 700 after a repeatable field had been added
11:27 thd         kados: tumer reports that if you add a repeated field the authorised heading fills the wrong field
11:26 thd         s/field/record/
11:26 thd         kados: although, tumer has spotted an editor bug for filling a field from an authority field
11:25 kados       so the regular MARC editor would be used
11:25 thd         kados: the fields are all there it is just a question of unhiding them
11:25 kados       right
11:25 kados       ahh ...
11:24 thd         kados: a holdings framework would in the case of MARC 21 be a very trimmed down bibliographic framework
11:23 thd         kados: that would give the librarian access to whatever is needed
11:22 thd         kados: would you not use the MARC editor to load a holdings record?
11:21 thd         kados: only 952 is defined in tab 10
11:21 kados       even in the current scheme
11:20 kados       thd: if they are defined in tab 10 they will show up I think
11:20 kados       like biblio.pm, if there was anything in there
11:20 kados       there are a few that need to be manually merged
11:20 thd         kados: cataloguing would need 852 or 856, and sometimes 863-868
11:20 kados       mainly dev_week and rel_2_2 are merged
11:19 dewey       i already had it that way, thd.
11:19 thd         kados: acquisitions would need 541, 583, and 876 that is just 3 fields with 877-8 for very special cases
11:18 thd         kados: or 3 at a time
11:18 kados       thd: tell me
11:18 kados       thd: no
11:18 thd         kados: did you see my message about how there are only about 3 fields for the librarian to worry about in standard MARC 21 holdings?
11:17 thd         kados: he is not using it in production yet?
11:17 ToinS       kados ah ok
11:17 kados       ToinS: I did it yesterday
11:17 kados       thd: it will be in head as soon as tumer deems it stabler :-)
11:16 ToinS       paul : updatedatabase has not been merged between rel_2_2 & head
11:16 kados       thd: yes, and I approved it
11:11 thd         hello paul
11:11 paul        hello thd.
11:11 thd         ?
11:11 thd         kados: did you understand from reading the logs what tumer had done for holdings
11:10 paul        forget this, my copy was wrong. i had updated from something locally modified, so I got some cvs errors. restarting from a fresh copy
11:07 kados       paul: in rel22 it should work
10:46 paul        because export/export.pl is buggy (compilation failure)
10:45 paul        kados : how do you export your datas ?
10:37 paul        bon appetit !
10:36 paul        of course.
10:35 kados       (use a test db first of course)
10:35 kados       so you can probably convert to utf8 before mysqldump
10:35 kados       :)
10:35 paul        that's what is nice with a language that uses accents : any problem is easy to find ;-)
10:34 paul        if yes, then all my libraries are ok !
10:34 kados       sounds like it
10:34 paul        but you said that I could not be sure of my real encoding. So, if mysql = latin1, meta=latin1 and the pages are OK, then I have real latin1 datas ?
10:33 kados       so if your encoding is 8859, and your db is 8859, and your meta tag is 8859, it's all good
10:33 paul        yep
10:33 kados       isn't 8859 eq latin1?
10:32 paul        but when you put it on a web page, if it's not 8859, the page should be wrong in the browser isn't it ?
10:32 kados       but to get them out you must trick mysql
10:32 kados       so you may have correctly encoded values
10:31 kados       except when you try to mysqldump or convert to another encoding
10:31 kados       it doesn't care what you put in
10:31 kados       mysql will let you store any encoding
10:30 kados       that's just the best part
10:30 kados       hehe
10:30 paul        (with proper accented chars)
10:30 paul        if the datas where not iso8859, how is it possible to have correct MARCdetail ?
10:30 paul        another question :
10:30 paul        my problem is that I think I alway had iso8859 datas, but I was probably wrong, and I'll discover it soon
10:30 kados       (we of course, didn't say it, it was a sin of omission :-))
10:29 paul        mmm... I never said that... but I agree that I never checked ;-)
10:29 kados       and not 'make sure you are running mysql 4.1 with encoding set to the same as your data'
10:29 kados       because we said 'koha can run perfectly on any version of mysql with any settings'
10:28 kados       yes
10:28 paul        do you know how we created it ?
10:28 kados       it's a problem we created ourselves :-)
10:28 kados       but it's also unreleated to zebra :-)
10:28 kados       it's a really big problem, unfortunately, maybe too big a job for updatedatabase :(
10:27 kados       on another server
10:27 kados       so you can set up a test environment
10:27 kados       without touching the encoding
10:27 kados       mysqlhotcopy will take a snapshot of the db
10:26 kados       some tests will need to be done
10:26 kados       well ... even that could change it
10:26 paul        ah, I understand now why you don't have your long hairs anymore...
10:26 kados       you need to export to a file
10:26 kados       no hex in mysql
10:26 kados       very frustrating
10:26 kados       because I didn't know that mysql thought it had latin1, not utf-8
10:26 kados       is because with WIPO, I was losing hair trying to get mysqldump to export utf-8 data to their db
10:25 paul        but we don't have any hex in mysql
10:25 kados       the reason I know all of this
10:25 kados       you can examine the hex :-)
10:25 paul        really nice...
10:24 kados       unless you know beforehand :-)
10:24 kados       there is no way to know
10:24 kados       hehe
10:24 paul        how do you do to know what is the real encoding ?
10:24 kados       I don't know about iconv
10:24 kados       you can transform within mysql itself
10:24 paul        to transform from one to another encoding, is iconv enough (on the dump) ?
10:23 kados       who have many non-ascii characters
10:23 kados       esp for french libraries
10:23 kados       yep :-)
10:23 paul        to rewrite it : depending on what you really have and what mysql think you have, you will be in a big pain ;-)
10:23 kados       paul: and that all their data is in utf8 before importing
10:22 kados       paul: a library must simply make sure that mysql 4.1 is set up with the correct encoding
10:22 paul        yes partially make sense now.
10:22 kados       paul: for a new install it's much simpler
10:22 kados       paul: make better sense?
10:21 kados       and the type of MARC
10:21 kados       depending on the mysql version and encoding defaults they are using
10:21 kados       but every Koha migration will be different
10:20 kados       and in the case of the MARC data, we need to update all the leaders
10:20 kados       then we need to tell mysql that the tables are utf8
10:20 kados       now we need to convert everything to utf8
10:19 kados       (again)
10:19 kados       so now we can run mysqldump without mangling the data
10:19 kados       (so now mysql doesn't know the encoding because the data is of type blob, etc.)
10:18 kados       (as was common when moving from 3.23 to 4.0 (which started having some character set support))
10:18 kados       (mangled means the characters have been re-encoded)
10:18 kados       (so now mysql doesn't know the encoding)
10:18 kados       alter the mysql tables and convert to binary or blob
10:18 paul        what does 'mangled' means ?
10:18 kados       to upgrade, NPL must:
10:17 kados       but actually has marc8, mangled once in a conversion
10:17 kados       so now NPL has a database that thinks it has latin1 data
10:17 kados       all of the data was mangled by mylsql
10:17 kados       when NPL migrated from 1.9 to 2.0 using mysqldump
10:16 kados       so ...
10:16 kados       the database was set up for latin1 defaults
10:16 kados       they imported them into a mysql 3.23 db
10:16 kados       before Koha NPL had MARC_8 encoded records
10:16 paul        ok, listening
10:16 paul        yes, i've read, but that's not enough for me
10:16 kados       I will give you NPL as an example
10:16 kados       ok
10:16 kados       http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=encodingscratchpad
10:15 paul        and mysql alter table know where it comes from isn't it ?
10:15 kados       yes, but you need to convert it to utf-8 _and_ tell mysql that it is utf-8
10:15 paul        but everybody & everything will be in utf8 in 3.0
10:15 kados       if 4.1, make sure the mysqldump is from 4.1 or stop immediately
10:14 paul        so, in updater, if mysql 4.0 => stop immediatly, if 4.1 => continue
10:14 kados       what encoding they started on, what they want to end up with, etc.
10:14 kados       there are so many cases
10:14 kados       I doubt it
10:14 paul        and we could check this in updater.
10:14 kados       but that is a complicated process
10:14 kados       yes
10:14 paul        before upgrading.
10:14 kados       but most libraries are running 2.2 on mysql 4.0
10:14 paul        se a library migrating from Koha 2.2 will have to deal with mysql upgrade if needed.
10:13 kados       4.1 _is_ required for 2.4 and 3.0
10:13 kados       yes
10:13 paul        but I thought we have said previously that 4.1 will be required for Koha 3
10:13 kados       if you migrate from 4.0 you must do special things to preserve your character sets
10:12 kados       but most libraries will be migrating from 4.0
10:12 kados       4.1 is required for dev_week
10:12 paul        add a test or require 4.1 ?
10:12 kados       you'd have to test the mysqldump to see if the data was coming from 4.0 or 4.1
10:12 paul        I can't what ?
10:12 kados       you can't
10:12 paul        so we should add a test to check for 4.1 when starting updatedatabase ?
10:11 kados       for new installs the procedure is different
10:11 kados       I speak of migration
10:11 kados       but you table and database definitions are probably set to latin1
10:11 paul        right. but we require 4.1 isn't it ?
10:11 kados       there is no character set support
10:11 kados       if you are running rel_2_2 on 4.0
10:11 kados       because depending on the version of mysql you are migrating from, converting to utf-8 could mangle all your data
10:10 kados       the wiki is not up to date with my latest tests
10:10 paul        why ?
10:10 kados       utf-8 conversion should not be in updatedatabase
10:10 paul        things that are already in udpatedabatase (like utf-8 conversion)
10:10 tumer       ahhh
10:09 kados       biblio_framework.sql is what alters biblio and moves the frameworkcode as well as adding some columns
10:09 tumer       it merely adds more field definitions to what we already have and which we will not use
10:09 kados       it's poorly named
10:09 kados       yes
10:09 tumer       biblio_framework update is not an essential part of this upgrade is it?
10:09 kados       thx
10:09 paul        ok, i take care of it & update the wiki
10:09 kados       eventually I would have put it in but didn't get to it
10:08 kados       everything should be in dev_week updatabase
10:08 kados       yes
10:08 paul        - biblio_framework.sql, phrase_log.sql are already partially in updatedatabase. Is it OK if I put everything there ?
10:08 tumer       paul i dont think you need it and infact should not otherwise you will loose your mappings
10:07 owen        Hi paul
10:07 paul        (hello owen)
10:07 paul        means "update to marc21 from thomas"  ?if yes what is interesting for me to know for unimarc ?
10:06 paul          - update to the latest bib framework
10:06 paul        kados : you've missed some of my questions it seems :
10:05 paul        it's really a lot
10:05 paul        right tumer
10:04 tumer       but should be 0
10:04 paul        10 for a 14000 biblio DB
10:03 kados       ahh...good for me :-)
10:03 paul        oups, no, I have a few.
10:03 kados       excellent
10:03 paul        the good news being that i don't have any missing 090
10:02 paul        - run missing090.pl
10:02 paul        - run updater/updatedatabase
10:02 paul        - copy rel_2_2 DB
10:02 paul        so, I have to run it from dev_week 100% :
10:01 paul        and if I try with PERL5LIB pointing to dev_week, it fails, because the KOHA_CONF is not xml, but the old .conf file
10:00 paul        in rel_2_2, the parameter must be a bibid.
10:00 paul        it calls MARCgetbiblio with a biblionumber as parameter.
10:00 paul        kados : I can't get missing090.pl work correctly.
10:00 tumer       i write $record->as_xml_record() and still get <colection> wrapper
09:58 tumer       yep
09:58 kados       is it the newest from SF?
09:58 kados       what new M:F:X?
09:58 kados       weird
09:49 tumer       i did not understand why
09:49 tumer       btw it was not zebra problem zebra was crashing cuase this new M:F:X was not giving me xml_as_record
09:48 tumer       then i will commit
09:47 tumer       i am currently working on it hope to get it fully functional by this weekend and put it to production
09:43 kados       (so it won't change anything :-))
09:43 kados       (note that HEAD is already completely broken)
09:43 kados       tumer: and tell you if I don't like something :-)
09:43 kados       tumer: if you commit it I will take a look immediately
09:42 tumer       i think thats the only way to actually get good clean code
09:42 kados       tumer: ok
09:41 paul        you plan to break everything ? sounds cool to me :D
09:41 tumer       so  what i will do is submit new biblio which will break all record handling ok?
09:40 paul        (in Attic directory)
09:40 kados       yes, you can't actually delete them
09:40 paul        tumer: yes
09:40 tumer       does that put them in archive?
09:39 kados       cvs delete file.pl
09:39 kados       you can also do:
09:39 kados       that would allow this
09:39 kados       I wonder if savannah supports subversion yet
09:39 kados       good question
09:39 tumer       how can i delete from head
09:39 tumer       ok but head has lots of junk old script in it, i have cleaned mine
09:38 kados       tumer: what you are doing is closest to my vision of it
09:38 kados       tumer: there is no official HEAD api yet
09:38 kados       tumer: that's the point
09:38 tumer       kados:it will break everything itsa a complete new api
09:37 kados       tumer: please proceed with your plan and feel free to commit to HEAD
09:37 kados       paul: (because sometimes there are still missing 090 fields and zebra indexing will crash if they are missing)
09:36 kados       paul: then you must run it again when you have the MARC data
09:36 kados       paul: you run missing090 in the database before you mysqldump it
09:36 kados       paul: not quite
09:36 kados       y
09:36 kados       tumer: I read your conversation with thd yesterda
09:36 paul        ah, ok , it means you must have 2 DB during migrations.
09:35 tumer       hi kados
09:35 kados       hi tumer
09:35 kados       paul: and you are using rel_2_2 bases when running missing090
09:35 tumer       biblio also has frameworkcode
09:35 tumer       no biblioitems
09:35 kados       paul: just make sure you have two conf files
09:35 tumer       items has itemnumber,biblionumber,marc,barcode
09:34 tumer       biblio table has only marc,biblionumber and itemtype
09:34 tumer       here is what i have changed:
09:34 tumer       i'll ask it there
09:34 paul        but I think it must be asked to koha & koha-devel ml
09:33 paul        note that we could have itemtype at item level & still have the same behaviour as previously, the library just would have the same itemtype for each item.
09:32 tumer       well may be we should change library policy tehn
09:31 tumer       but they are in sme biblio
09:31 tumer       and sometimes separately
09:31 tumer       a book with a cd causing us problems-- CD gets loaned out for shorrter
09:31 paul        otherwise, we could, for example, put all books from the same author in the same biblio.
09:30 paul        no you can't, because it's a different intellectual object.
09:30 tumer       so you cannot hve a CD version of a book under same biblio
09:30 paul        (and maybe with marc21 as well)
09:30 paul        the best being to have something like FRBR, that is incompatible with unimarc.
09:29 paul        mmm... this question should be asked to koha-devel. In UNIMARC, itemtype is a biblio level information.
09:29 tumer       do you think we shouldmanage itemtype at biblio level or item level?
09:28 tumer       paul i am almost finishing a complete new api for record handling. 1 question?
09:28 paul        did you hear of this scandal in cyprus as well ?
09:28 paul        and in 2 or 3 days, their joy will end with the justice decision, probably.
09:28 paul        not all italians : our priest was happy, but only half happy.
09:27 tumer       not if you ask italians
09:27 paul        so it also means nothing to loose with penalties ;-)
09:27 paul        in fact, this end was the worst possible, but also the best possible : it means nothing to win with penalties.
09:26 paul        the priest of my church is italian, so we all had a very large problem on sunday : could we have been happy with a victory from anyone.
09:25 tumer       hi paul sorry about france
09:25 paul        hello tumer/
09:25 paul        same for phrase_log.sql
09:25 paul        kados : another one : biblio_framework.sql is partially already in updatedatabase. Are you OK if I put everything in this script ? (should be easy)
09:22 paul        kados : another problem/question : i try to run missing090field.pl, but it fails, as it requires zebra working. are you OK if I move this part AFTER Starting zebra ?
09:15 paul        other question : I think convert_to_utf8.pl is redundant with updater/updatedatabase (see updatedatabase line 1404+ : it's the same alter table)
09:13 paul        if yes, what is specific with them (as I can't do it for unimarc)
09:12 paul        kados : what do you mean by "update to the latest bib framework"? do you mean "update to the latest marc21 frameworks from thomas" ?
08:50 kados       cool, thanks
08:49 paul        if you have the MARC record, MARCmarc2koha sub in Biblio.pm will create the Koha field easily
08:44 kados       so maybe each MARC record in the result set must be processed to split it into Koha fields and MARC fields for display
08:44 kados       (in fact, we don't get the whole set of bibids at all ... that is kept in zebra)
08:43 kados       not bibids
08:43 kados       because with zebra, we get back full MARC records
08:43 kados       the only tricky part is how to integrate the results
08:42 kados        :-)
08:42 kados       paul: the CCL style of searching is very similar to the old API
08:42 paul        good news...
08:41 kados       paul: changes only to the routines in SearchMarc.pm
08:41 kados       paul: I just investigated whether it would be possible to keep the rel_2_2 style API for searching, and I think it could be done with some minor changes
08:06 paul2       ok kados, i'll investigate in the next minutes, i'll let you know if I have another problem
08:03 kados       paul: it also keeps track of problem records and saves them in XML and iso2709 form in separate dump files
08:02 kados       paul: for MARC21 only
08:02 kados       paul: there is a sample of a preprocess script that only converts to UTF-8
08:02 kados       paul: http://liblime.com/public/roundtrip.pl
08:01 kados       paul: been very lonely in #koha in the morning for me :-)
08:00 kados       paul: it's good to have you back :-)
07:59 mason       cheers paul
07:59 paul        great mason, we will wait for them then
07:59 mason       tis only 1am :)
07:59 mason       i have some acqui. changes done in that last couple of weeks that ill commit to head in the next hour, too
07:58 kados       paul: I hear your new home is very beautiful
07:58 kados       mason: kinda late, eh? :-)
07:58 kados       hey mason
07:58 kados       excellent
07:58 mason       hiya guys
07:58 paul        ToinS will start code cleaning on head in the afternoon
07:57 kados       (welcome back :-))
07:57 kados       and I have submitted bug reports for each confirmed bug
07:57 kados       a client has explained the bugs
07:57 kados       http://wiki.liblime.com/doku.php?id=koha226bugs
07:57 kados       paul: also, we spoke briefly about acquisitions bugs before
07:56 paul        I'll run & let you know if there is the problem
07:56 kados       you may be surprised :-)
07:56 kados       have you run missing090.pl before? :-)
07:56 paul        wow ! strange, I never had this problem in France !
07:55 kados       NPL has several thousand!! missing 090 fields
07:55 kados       also, somewhere in rel_2_2 code, 090 fields are being deleted or are never added for some records
07:55 paul        on transfers, right ?
07:55 kados       when items are updated, MARC isn't
07:54 kados       what it means is that somewhere in rel_2_2 code
07:54 kados       well ...
07:54 paul        because I can accept that " so it's necessary to query items table to get the right values for items fields" but I don't know what it means exactly & what to code to fix this !!!
07:53 kados       I'm afraid it won't be useful to you
07:53 kados       right ... but MARC21 is quite different than UNIMARC
07:53 paul        yes, but that would be nice to have a starter ;-)
07:53 kados       paul: and every client has different needs
07:53 kados       paul: it's not completely written yet
07:52 paul        kados: is there a script that does all of this for you somewhere ?
07:52 ToinS       ok
07:52 paul        try 'XX' => "$variable"
07:52 paul        yes ToinS : you have a 'XX' => $variable and $variable is probably empty.
07:52 ToinS       have someone ever seen this error : HTML::Template->param() : You gave me an odd number of parameters to param()! ???
07:51 kados       all of that is covered under preprocessing
07:51 kados       so it's necessary to query items table to get the right values for items fields
07:51 kados       koha 2.x doesn't export items properly
07:51 kados       plus ...
07:50 kados       (used for searching by date and format/content/audience)
07:50 kados       add all of the fixed fields
07:50 dewey       paul: excuse me?
07:50 paul        dewey : do back to bed please. It's time to sleep in new zealand...
07:50 kados       other steps are to add a new leader
07:49 dewey       kados: that doesn't look right
07:49 kados       change encoding is just one step
07:49 kados       so all of those marc records must be preprocessed
07:49 kados       every previous version of Koha produced improper MARC records
07:49 kados       well ... preprocess includes many things
07:48 paul        (+ learn what you mean by "preprocess routine to convert to utf-8 ? don't you have one already ?)
07:48 kados       they are in the zebraplugin dir
07:48 kados       http://cvs.savannah.nongnu.org/viewcvs/koha/zebraplugin/?root=koha&only_with_tag=R_2-3-0
07:48 paul        I just want to know what does those scripts ;-)
07:47 paul        I haven't done anything yet
07:47 kados       have you done those steps? or don't understand how?
07:47 paul        i have completed this page & will continue as well, when I encounter something I don't understand well
07:46 kados       except it should say from dev_week :-)
07:46 paul        rebuild non marc is OK I think
07:46 paul              double-check again for missing 090 fields (very critical)
07:46 paul           7.
07:46 paul              run them through a preprocess routine to convert to utf-8
07:46 paul           6.
07:46 paul              export your MARC records
07:46 paul           5.
07:46 paul        run phrase_log.sql from within the mysql monitor (from dev-week)
07:46 paul        #
07:45 paul        run biblio_framework.sql from within the mysql monitor (from dev-week)
07:45 paul        #
07:45 paul        run missing090field.pl (from dev-week)
07:45 paul        #
07:45 paul        - run rebuild-nonmarc from rel_2_2 if your framework has changed
07:45 paul        I'm not sure to understand :
07:45 kados       hey ToinS
07:45 ToinS       hi kados
07:45 paul        http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=installingzebraplugin226
07:45 kados       sure
07:45 paul        do you have a few seconds for some questions ?
07:44 paul        (working from ToinS home, because I still don't have any connexion at my new home :( )
07:44 paul        good morning to you
07:44 paul        hello kados
07:43 kados       hi paul
04:53 chris       yes its really good
04:52 paul        did you look at ToinS code cleaning on suggestions ?
04:52 chris       so it probably needs some cleaning :)
04:52 chris       cool, we merged all our fixes in the acquistion module in head a few weeks ago
04:51 chris       yep
04:51 paul        yep. it's a dev_week snapshot I bet ?
04:51 paul        ToinS will start cleaning acquistion module this afternoon
04:51 chris       did you see there is a 2.3.0 ?
04:51 chris       excellent
04:51 paul        to investigage zoom & unimarc things...
04:50 chris       yeah
04:50 paul        I had 6Mb previously, but my main concern is the up bandwidth
04:50 chris       on a cable modem
04:50 chris       i have 2mb dn, 2mb up
04:49 chris       cool, thats not bad at all
04:49 paul        s/B/b/
04:49 paul        something like 4MB dn / 800KB up
04:49 paul        adsl
04:49 chris       will you get cable or adsl in your office paul?
04:43 chris       i think hill is right ... its a big hill though :)
04:43 paul        just on the other side of the hill (not sure of the word hill)
04:42 chris       ohh cool
04:42 paul        my new home being close to ND
04:42 chris       there must be a great view for Antoine's home
04:42 paul        yep
04:42 chris       up near the Notre Dame de la Guarde ?
04:41 paul        so works from Antoine home !!!
04:41 chris       oh no
04:40 chris       hi paul
04:40 paul        hello world
04:39 chris       hehe
04:38 btoumi      ;=)
04:37 btoumi      need one week for sleep
04:37 chris       ahh ok
04:37 btoumi      chris: ok for fines.pm i have some probleme with my repository because call to calfine is ok in fines.pm
04:36 alaurin     hi Toins
04:33 ToinS       hello arnaud
04:32 alaurin     fine, i'm near of my holidays, so , I feel good !!!!!
04:27 chris       arnaud: im good thanks, and you?
04:27 btoumi      yes i do it
04:27 chris       ahh, it should be, can you fix that?
04:26 btoumi      calcfines was not called in export
04:26 alaurin     hi, how are u .????
04:26 chris       hi arnaud
04:25 chris       yep?
04:25 btoumi      another probleme with fines
04:22 chris       no problem
04:21 btoumi      ty
04:21 btoumi      perahps i have another question for u but not for the moment
04:19 chris       :)
04:18 btoumi      i'm happy to help u ;=)
04:16 chris       i edited that file just a while ago and didnt even notice that :-)
04:16 chris       damn
04:15 chris       there we go
04:14 chris       but issuingrules replaced that
04:14 chris       back before issuingrules existed, the issuing rules where in a table called categoryitem (borrower categories, plus itemtypes = categoryitem)
04:13 btoumi      that why i ask u
04:13 btoumi      i do it in my repository but i wasn't sure
04:12 chris       2 mintues ill fix that sql up
04:12 btoumi      yes
04:12 chris       that should be issuingrules
04:12 chris       categoryitem
04:12 chris       ahh yes i see it
04:11 btoumi      line 161 in fines.pm
04:10 btoumi      yes i work only in head
04:10 chris       ah ha
04:10 btoumi      not fines2.pl but fines.pm because in fines2.pl u use fines.pm
04:10 chris       in head?
04:09 btoumi      i confirm
04:08 chris       :-)
04:08 btoumi      ;=)
04:08 btoumi      just one minute i think i make confuse with file i think i must sleep now
04:06 chris       is it misc/fines2.pl ?
04:06 chris       maybe im looking at the wrong file
04:04 chris       hm which table does it use?
04:04 btoumi      ok thanks
04:04 chris       ill update it
04:04 chris       ahh 2 seconds
04:03 btoumi      it uses a table whio not exist
04:03 btoumi      yes
04:03 chris       fines2.pl ?
04:03 chris       and Circulation/Fines.pm
04:03 btoumi      i find a lot of problem with this file
04:02 chris       and Accounts2.pm
04:02 chris       yes
04:02 btoumi      but now the calcul of fines is do by fines2.pl ?
04:01 chris       right
04:01 btoumi      because for my library we must  manage fines
04:00 chris       all the C ones are credits
03:59 btoumi      now i learn more about the fines functionnement
03:59 chris       you can add more if you need more tho
03:59 chris       no, they arent configurable
03:58 btoumi      can u configure them or not?
03:58 chris       CS, CB, CW, CF and CL
03:58 chris       plus the
03:57 btoumi      ok
03:57 chris       are the ones i know
03:57 chris       L, F, Rep, F, FU, A, Pay
03:56 chris       as well as those ones
03:56 btoumi      i find fu o f m lr lc status but not all
03:55 chris       there is Pay
03:55 chris       right
03:54 btoumi      but i can't see all value for accounttype can u help me?
03:53 btoumi      i work on fines
03:50 ToinS       chris: ok !
03:47 chris       sure btoumi
03:47 chris       i think they do different things, so i think keep using GetItemTypes for now
03:47 btoumi      can I?
03:46 btoumi      chris i have a question for u
03:46 chris       toins: i just noticed the FIXME but im not sure who wrote that
03:46 chris       hi btoumi
03:45 btoumi      hi chris
03:45 btoumi      hi toins:
03:45 ToinS       hi btoumi
03:45 btoumi      hi all
03:45 chris       ahh ok
03:45 ToinS       so i don't knw
03:45 ToinS       i've just meet getitemtypes in a script and renamed it
03:44 ToinS       i've not really worked on koha.pm
03:44 chris       or keep using GetItemTypes ?
03:43 chris       toins: with the work you are doing with C4::Koha ... are you planning to use get_itemtypeinfos_of instead of GetItemTypes ?
02:40 ToinS       hello chris
02:40 chris       hi toins
02:39 ToinS       hello world
23:16 thd         kados: are you still awake?
22:15 chris       cya later
22:14 russ        catch you later
22:14 Burgundavia I will get my work IRC client on this channel as well
22:14 russ        it is mainly the green and the purple
22:14 Burgundavia anyway, I have to run
22:14 Burgundavia the blue and green on the website are not bad
22:14 Burgundavia ok
22:14 russ        ahh not really
22:13 Burgundavia heh
22:13 chris       you dont want me doing anything to do with design :-)
22:12 chris       hmm ill defer to russ on that one
22:12 Burgundavia yep
22:12 chris       koha the project?
22:12 Burgundavia does koha have a palette? (aside from purple)
22:11 chris       yeah that would be ideal
22:11 Burgundavia ideally you wanat something you can co-brand: liblime/katipo/koha-fr and koha
22:11 chris       excellent :)
22:11 chris       but there is no really general koha ones
22:10 Burgundavia let me get this edubuntu case study out the door and the OPAC UI critique and I will see if I can take stock of what is available
22:10 chris       and i think liblime has some
22:10 Burgundavia ah
22:10 chris       some brochure stuff etc, that we (katipo) have used at ALIA online, and lianza
22:09 chris       we have some printed material
22:09 Burgundavia http://ubuntu.ca/Edubuntu-casestudy.png
22:09 chris       right
22:09 Burgundavia hence the edubuntu case study
22:08 chris       m
22:08 chris       but suffer from the same only so many hours in the day proble
22:08 Burgundavia most oss projects are bad on this
22:08 chris       we'd love printed material
22:08 chris       thats pretty much what we have
22:08 Burgundavia yep I have dug through
22:08 chris       have you looked at wiki.koha.org ... and www.kohadocs.org ?
22:07 russ        lol
22:07 chris       hehe
22:07 chris       and at www.kohadocs.org
22:07 chris       in the wiki
22:07 chris       we have lots in html
22:07 chris       in printed, nope
22:07 Burgundavia nor a product guide
22:07 Burgundavia but you have no Koha case studies, in printed form
22:07 chris       paul in france does the same
22:06 chris       liblime does the same
22:06 chris       katipo markets its services ... which semi markets koha
22:06 Burgundavia hmm
22:06 chris       no one :)
22:06 Burgundavia who does Koha marketing?
22:06 chris       thats old too, theres lots more than that now
22:05 Burgundavia ok, that is an amazing map
22:05 chris       we try to get the libraries to give us the permission for that
22:05 russ        i guess we have steered clear of that in the past
22:05 Burgundavia I have noticed libraries hate being pathfinders on technology
22:05 chris       http://old.koha.org/about/map/index.html <-- old map
22:04 Burgundavia X library has migrated from Y to Koha
22:04 Burgundavia a little news piece on the main website
22:04 chris       on the old website ... and we need something like that again
22:04 chris       we used to have a map
22:04 chris       but its hard to show that in a nice way
22:04 chris       yeah, its more like a 200 library trick
22:04 Burgundavia count, that is
22:03 Burgundavia well, two, if you county athen county
22:03 chris       yep, we are working with the libraries to get them to do some publicity
22:03 Burgundavia the koha website gives the impression that it is a one library trick
22:03 Burgundavia it is important to publicize any libraries that do migrate
22:03 chris       the ones who migrated really had no choice, migrate or upgrade
22:02 chris       yeah
22:02 Burgundavia they said that getting support for classic has basically been impossible since the merger
22:02 chris       2 libraries in nz have migrated from old dynix to koha in the last year
22:02 russ        oooh that would cripple a public library in our region
22:02 Burgundavia not too mention the headache of the migration itself
22:01 chris       yikes thats a lot to lose
22:01 chris       roll up roll up, get locked in to our solution, ull never escape
22:01 Burgundavia library I know is migrating Dynix Classic --> Sirsi Unicorn. Loosing 900k in fines, due to Unicorn not understanding that fines should persist after the book/thing has been removed from the collection
22:01 chris       im picking that will be the angle they will take
22:00 russ        http://www.lianza.org.nz/events/conference2006/programme.html
22:00 Burgundavia "how libraries can spend more money on us"
22:00 chris       and then chairing a panel
22:00 Burgundavia ah
22:00 chris       the keynote address
21:59 Burgundavia interesting. What with?
21:59 chris       interestingly enough sirsidynix are taking up the first 2 hours of the first day of lianza (the nz equiv of the ala conference) here this year
21:59 chris       yeah
21:59 Burgundavia yep
21:59 Burgundavia had a laugh at SirsiDynix claiming to built on "open standards"
21:58 chris       i think liblime was sharing with index data?
21:58 chris       right
21:58 Burgundavia our booth = Userful's
21:58 chris       :-)
21:58 Burgundavia a big, giant Windows world, with a few beacons of hope: our booth and Index Data's
21:57 chris       it sounded big
21:57 Burgundavia big
21:57 chris       how was ALA?
21:57 chris       ahh yes
21:57 Burgundavia I was supposed to be at the Paris development conference, but it clashed with ALA in New Orleans, sadly
21:57 Burgundavia ah yes
21:57 chris       i met mark at linuxconf.au this year
21:56 chris       yep
21:56 Burgundavia ubuntu is everywhere
21:55 chris       planet ubuntu
21:55 chris       that'll be it
21:55 chris       ahh
21:55 Burgundavia I am co-author on the Official Ubuntu Book?
21:55 chris       trying to remember where ive seen it
21:54 Burgundavia cool
21:54 chris       im Chris Cormack, i work for Katipo Communications in the day .. and some of the night too, and Koha all over the place
21:54 Burgundavia nothing bad I hope :)
21:54 chris       ahhh ive seen your name around :)
21:54 Burgundavia chris: just to introduce myself, I am Corey Burger. I work for Userful in the day and volunteer with Ubuntu/Edubuntu at night
21:53 chris       which we should do some news about
21:53 Burgundavia somewhere in there I also need to finish that edubuntu case study
21:53 chris       but there are few new libraries running koha
21:53 kados       heh
21:52 Burgundavia too many projects, so little time
21:52 chris       yep its true, more publicity would be good, but id hate to have ppl see it, and then try it out and say it sucks because they cant install it :-)
21:52 Burgundavia ok
21:52 kados       Burgundavia: well, when you get to that email, I'm all eyes :-)
21:51 kados       so folks can try it out with real data
21:51 kados       also I want to get some public demos going
21:51 kados       already spotted some probs
21:51 Burgundavia just don't want to miss an opportunity to get us talked about
21:51 kados       I'll do 2.3.1 tomorrow afternoon
21:50 kados       yep
21:50 chris       when we are at 2.3.2 ish
21:50 Burgundavia ok
21:50 kados       yea
21:50 chris       maybe in a week or so
21:50 kados       Burgundavia: only tumer and I have got it going so far :-)
21:50 chris       its a tricky one
21:50 Burgundavia heh
21:50 kados       Burgundavia: not really, because the core developers don't even know how to install it :-)
21:50 chris       its hard to get them excited without them asking where is it, can i have it
21:50 kados       yea, bleeding edge is key
21:50 chris       there even
21:50 Burgundavia no, but you do want people to be excited about it existing
21:49 chris       cos their will be blood everywhere :-)
21:49 chris       but for now 2.3 is so bleeding edge we dont really want too many people trying it
21:49 kados       so 2.3.0 is basically where we've said "ok, stuff is actually working ... now lets test and bugfix, etc. and in a month or so, we'll have a stable product"
21:49 Burgundavia yep
21:49 chris       when 2.4 comes out there will be tons of fanfare on koha.org .. and on the main koha-devel list
21:48 kados       yea
21:47 chris       work leading up to 2.4 and 3.0 has been going on since 2.2.0 was released
21:47 kados       right
21:47 Burgundavia see, that is not how (as an outsider), interpreted your email
21:47 kados       yea
21:47 Burgundavia 2.3?
21:47 kados       we've been working on this release for about two years now :-)
21:47 chris       yep
21:47 kados       but it's really the tail end of the dev cycle
21:46 kados       yep
21:46 Burgundavia gets people all excited, reminds them the project is not dead
21:46 kados       the liblime team has enough trouble keeping our marketing website up to date :-)
21:46 Burgundavia the start of a major new development cycle is pretty good news, I think
21:46 chris       pretty much anything thats interesting or new, and someone tells us about can go up
21:46 kados       plus, koha.org is really just the project page ...
21:46 kados       and news and stuff is loose as well
21:46 Burgundavia indeed
21:45 kados       so we basically know what's going on :-)
21:45 kados       there are not that many core developers
21:45 kados       the project is really loosely defined
21:45 kados       or someone
21:45 kados       well basically if someone has time to write something they submit it to russ
21:45 chris       yep, ppl have to tell us news, then we'll put it there
21:44 kados       right
21:44 Burgundavia nothing new, that is
21:44 Burgundavia the website, in the little news box which has nothing in it
21:44 kados       if you have something you need announced you can generally send it to russ or someone
21:44 kados       muhahaha
21:44 kados       so I can basically do anything :-)
21:44 kados       well I'm the release manager
21:44 kados       do you mean to savannah? or koha-devel? or on the website koha.org?
21:43 Burgundavia the new development announcement
21:43 Burgundavia yep
21:43 kados       announcements?
21:43 kados       posting what?
21:43 Burgundavia what is policy on posting stuff to koha.org?
21:43 kados       so now would be a really great time to have the ideas/mockup
21:43 Burgundavia I just saw that annoucement
21:42 kados       I'll be working pretty much all week on 2.3.x
21:42 kados       can't wait to read it
21:42 kados       excellent
21:42 Burgundavia it is mostly written, just missing the mockup
21:42 kados       cool
21:42 kados       I hear you
21:42 Burgundavia I am about to run out to the local LUG meeting
21:42 kados       :-)
21:41 Burgundavia kados: it is stuck in the loop of no time
21:41 kados       Burgundavia: I'll hold you to your purpose :-)
21:41 kados       Burgundavia: still waiting for that email :-)
20:50 thd         tumer: be careful not to be kicked from behind by your zebra
20:49 tumer       i have to check this zebra which is refusing to start
20:49 tumer       i will look into it
20:48 thd         tumer: http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/ecadlink.html#mrca750
20:47 thd         tumer: an example is 750 #0$aSummer resorts$0(DLC)sh#85130430#$wna
20:46 thd         tumer: $0 is used for linking from the authority record to the original record although you should also preserve the original record control number in 035
20:45 tumer       as i say i know zilch about authorities
20:44 tumer       or a specific field?
20:44 thd         tumer: $8 is also for linking within the record
20:44 tumer       which subfield should it be 8?
20:43 thd         $6 is for linking fields within the same record
20:42 thd         tumer: you have done it precisely correctly as long as you are not still using $6 to link outside the record
20:41 thd         chris: authority records are found in Latin America even if under used but they are largely absent even in some relatively rich countries like Italy
20:39 thd         chris: although most counties lack authority records
20:39 thd         chris: national libraries usually do that or some really large university library
20:38 thd         tumer: that is standard
20:37 tumer       but thats not standart i know
20:36 tumer       i even linked them so searching in one language brings the other as well
20:36 tumer       i give it in 750
20:35 chris       ahh good idea
20:34 thd         tumer chris: preserve the original LC record you may be translating into Turkish or Maori by giving the original heading in a 7XX linking field in the authority record
20:34 chris       maybe thats something the future foundation could do, help hold/build authority records for other languages
20:33 chris       immersion even
20:33 chris       which would be needed if the total emmersion schools were to use them
20:32 chris       im betting there are none for maori too
20:32 chris       right
20:32 thd         chris: although tumer says there are none yet for Turkish so he must create them
20:31 thd         yes it is very easy
20:31 chris       is there authorities for other languages thd?
20:31 tumer       i am in more clear now
20:30 thd         tumer: LC only has circa 125,000 authorised subject headings which can be used to build all the others.
20:29 thd         tumer: subject authority files would be millions of authorised forms if they had to be complete subject strings with all the subdivisions in one record
20:27 tumer       thats a relief, I thought i was going to have them all like that in millions
20:27 thd         tumer: BnF bends the UNMARC rule that specifies $3 as not repeatable for subject subdivisions
20:26 thd         13% of subject bibliographic strings I mean
20:26 thd         tumer: LC subject authority records only comprise about 13% of subject authority strings
20:25 tumer       BnF do dont they?
20:24 thd         for subject
20:24 thd         tumer: decades ago LC stopped creating authority records with all the subdivisions in the authorised form
20:24 tumer       currently its hybrid. LC subject headings beung translated but no actual records
20:23 tumer       but i dont even know whether we actually fill $x $y $z from differnt authorities or one record that has all fields in it
20:23 thd         tumer: your library is  translating LC authority files, is it not?
20:22 thd         tumer: repeatable $9 should allow for freely ordering the subfields
20:22 tumer       thd:ok
20:21 thd         tumer: I suspect that having repeated $9 in the same way that BnF has repeated $3 for subject subdivisions is the only way to have a manageable authority file.
20:20 tumer       thd i am so far away from the subject, also they have to be freely ordered
20:19 thd         tumer: subdivided subjects will seem to need repeated $9s for most free floating subdivision $z $x $y $v
20:19 tumer       we are creating 90% of our records
20:19 tumer       well its not good for me
20:17 thd         tumer: they comply if they comply by using already compliant records.
20:17 thd         tumer: those libraries are all using UNIMARC
20:17 tumer       whats the use of creating authorities that you do not comply with?
20:16 tumer       its not obvious untill you use subfield cloning -- the bug i mean
20:15 thd         tumer: unfortunately, the only Koha libraries actually using authorities merely use the script designed to  fill existing values in the bibliographic records into the database.
20:13 tumer       i reported a bug but in vain
20:13 thd         tumer: ooooh that is bad
20:13 tumer       all the java script messing it all up
20:13 tumer       you try filling 700 it fills 690
20:12 tumer       no
20:12 thd         tumer: do you mean with encoding?
20:12 tumer       yes but try to add a authors name to a bibliographic record from authorities. Its now a mess
20:11 thd         tumer: the authorities editor code needs to be copied from the bibliographic editor code
20:11 tumer       i know
20:10 thd         tumer: the editor code was never fixed for authorities
20:10 tumer       the editor does not work with them either
20:09 tumer       now we have thd producing some things i did some other all non complimenting each other
20:09 tumer       all linking of authorities etc i have to study it a bit more
20:08 thd         tumer: what specifically is not working about authorities?
20:08 thd         tumer: specifically is not working?
20:08 tumer       thats my intention
20:08 thd         tumer: what about them is not working?
20:07 thd         tumer: It may be a little painful in the short run but you will be much happier if they interoperate well with other systems
20:07 tumer       thd: i have to redesign authorities, the way they are now is not working
20:06 thd         tumer: I would like to persuade you to proceed with authorities in a standards compliant manner
20:05 thd         tumer: that is perfectly in conformance with the standard which is the only important obstacle
20:04 tumer       well thanks i dont know whether correct but thats how i designed it
20:04 thd         tumer: that is brilliant to have done it the way that is both easiest and most efficient
20:00 thd         kados: are you there?
20:00 thd         tumer: and there I was thinking about how to do it the most difficult way
20:00 tumer       s/starin/strain
19:59 tumer       easier on indexing releases the starin on zebra
19:59 thd         tumer: yes that is very evident
19:59 tumer       its easeier to manage them this way
19:59 thd         tumer: you do not attempt to make use of the repeatable fields so that you have for example 852 $t1 and 852 $t2 for the first and second copies?
19:58 thd         tumer: you do not attempt to make use of the repeatable fields so that you have for example 852 $t1 and 852 $t for the first and second copies?
19:58 tumer       yes but all call numbers end with c1 c2 etc so they are different and unique
19:57 thd         tumer: do you have multiple copies of the same biblio in your library?
19:57 tumer       yes because even a second copy is a different entity which has copy 2 in it
19:55 thd         tumer: do you mean you are creating a separate holdings record for each item even if you have duplicate items for the same biblio?
19:55 tumer       except issues and borrowers and subscript ofcourse
19:55 tumer       there is nothing in sql any more only blobs of marc records
19:54 tumer       i already have biblionumber in 001 in biblios itemnumber 001 in holdings
19:54 thd         tumer: are you no longer using SQL code for tracking the items?
19:53 tumer       i hope to get a full koha intranet working on this model by weekend
19:53 thd         tumer: that would be the place for storing the 001 from the bibliographic record
19:53 tumer       great thanks
19:52 thd         tumer: well the standard place for the link number is 004 - CONTROL NUMBER FOR RELATED BIBLIOGRAPHIC RECORD
19:52 tumer       separate holdings,bibblios and authorities records you do not require fields with letters there is abundance of fields
19:51 tumer       i used to now i stick with standard LC nummbers
19:50 thd         tumer: well if you are doing something non-standard for Koha I like some field with a letter in it like 90k but I realise that may require some code change
19:50 tumer       if kados spares same space i will commit the whole lot to the cvs
19:49 tumer       well within reason
19:49 tumer       no restrictions
19:49 tumer       any field to put anything in
19:48 tumer       a complete marc record
19:48 tumer       they have their own 001 005 007 852- to 999 all
19:47 thd         tumer: and do these separate holdings records use more than one of the holdings fields?
19:47 tumer       thd: which field is best to hold the biblionumber in holdings record?
19:46 tumer       yes i have separate marc record for holdings niw
19:46 thd         tumer: and it works?
19:46 dewey       really are quite different
19:46 thd         tumer: really?
19:46 tumer       yep
19:45 thd         for 3.0
19:45 tumer       i already  did
19:45 thd         tumer: kados had said that you were intending to eliminate the dependence that Koha had on using one and only one MARC field for holdings.
19:44 tumer       yep awake and zebraing
19:44 thd         tumer: is that really you?
19:43 thd         kados: cataloguing would need 852 or 856, and sometimes 863-868
19:39 thd         kados: acquisitions would need 541, 583, and 876 that is just 3 fields with 877-8 for very special cases
19:36 thd         kados: I can present a simplified case for the only users that you can obtain now in any case
19:34 thd         kados: you would not need to link specifically to 841 but the shiny forest in SQL would be much more efficient to parse for the scary cases.
19:14 thd         kados: 866-868 are not scary for humans, they are merely scary for computers.
19:13 thd         kados: the only scary ones are 853-855 and 863-868
19:09 kados       we need to link all of those?
19:09 kados       hmmm
19:08 thd         linking to items.itemnumber ?
19:07 kados       enough for what?
19:06 thd         kados: do you think that would be enough?
19:05 thd         878 - ITEM INFORMATION--INDEXES (R)
19:05 thd         877 - ITEM INFORMATION--SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL (R)
19:05 thd         876 - ITEM INFORMATION--BASIC BIBLIOGRAPHIC UNIT (R)
19:05 thd         868 - TEXTUAL HOLDINGS--INDEXES (R)
19:05 thd         867 - TEXTUAL HOLDINGS--SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL (R)
19:05 thd         866 - TEXTUAL HOLDINGS--BASIC BIBLIOGRAPHIC UNIT (R)
19:05 thd         865 - ENUMERATION AND CHRONOLOGY--INDEXES (R)
19:05 thd         864 - ENUMERATION AND CHRONOLOGY--SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL (R)
19:05 thd         863 - ENUMERATION AND CHRONOLOGY--BASIC BIBLIOGRAPHIC UNIT (R)
19:05 thd         856 - ELECTRONIC LOCATION AND ACCESS (R)
19:05 thd         855 - CAPTIONS AND PATTERN--INDEXES (R)
19:05 thd         854 - CAPTIONS AND PATTERN--SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL (R)
19:04 thd         853 - CAPTIONS AND PATTERN--BASIC BIBLIOGRAPHIC UNIT (R)
19:04 thd         852 - LOCATION (R)
19:04 thd         850 - HOLDING INSTITUTION (R)
19:04 thd         845 - TERMS GOVERNING USE AND REPRODUCTION NOTE (R)
19:04 thd         844 - NAME OF UNIT (NR)
19:04 thd         843 - REPRODUCTION NOTE (R)
19:04 thd         842 - TEXTUAL PHYSICAL FORM DESIGNATOR (NR)
19:04 thd         841 - HOLDINGS CODED DATA VALUES (NR)
19:04 thd         583 - ACTION NOTE (R)
19:04 thd         563 - BINDING INFORMATION (R)
19:04 thd         562 - COPY AND VERSION IDENTIFICATION NOTE (R)
19:04 thd         561 - OWNERSHIP AND CUSTODIAL HISTORY (R)
19:04 thd         541 - IMMEDIATE SOURCE OF ACQUISITION NOTE (R)
19:04 thd         kados ...
19:04 thd         kados: perhaps about 25 fields
18:50 thd         kados: some are more important than others
18:46 thd         kados: quite a few fields
18:45 kados       correct
18:44 thd         ?
18:44 thd         kados: do you mean full MARC holdings file not full MARC authorities file
18:44 kados       of course, display is not a problem either
18:44 kados       in terms of searching we have no problem
18:44 kados       with zebra I don't think it matters
18:43 thd         kados: changing the code to use a link would be more MARC like but may not be the most efficient
18:43 kados       ie, link the itemnumber field to a field elsewhere in the record
18:43 kados       and could we acomplish the same thing with a link?
18:42 kados       how many fields would need to contain itemnumber?
18:42 kados       852, etc.
18:42 kados       with MARC holdings
18:42 kados       if we created a full MARC authorities file
18:41 thd         yes
18:41 kados       thd: so ... question
18:41 thd         kados: do you think they observe the rules they establish for everyone internally?
18:40 thd         kados: although WIPO might care very much about that
18:39 thd         kados: the only thing that I remember having put in 952 that is not most likely to be useful is article '952', 's', 'Copyright article-fee code (similar to 018 $a, 852 $s)'
18:35 thd         s/classification/organisation/
18:35 thd         kados: does LC do vanity classification codes for a special fee? :)
18:34 kados       thd: that's it ... pretty cool, eh?
18:34 kados       thd: 'ONe' :-)
18:34 thd         kados: do you not have the code list bookmarked
18:34 kados       thd: it's 'ONe' :-)
18:34 thd         kados: no but classification codes in MARC 21 are all lower case
18:33 kados       thd: do you know NPL's MARC ORG code?
18:33 kados       :-)
18:33 kados       ok so I'll call it NPL v1
18:32 thd         kados: it allows classification searches to use information in the records to do an intelligent search
18:32 thd         kados: no of course not but you have the system do it for them
18:32 kados       and it doesn't really serve any purpose
18:31 kados       they aren't really up to doing that :-)
18:31 thd         kados: NPL's private scheme may not have a standard classification code but they can pretend if there is not one for generic local scheme
18:30 kados       :-)
18:30 thd         kados: kados has not seen nearly enough correctly encoded records
18:29 thd         kados: the classification code and version number
18:29 kados       the name of it?
18:29 kados       specify what about it?
18:29 thd         kados: anything that uses some other classification is supposed to specify the classification in $2
18:28 thd         kados: indicators are used to specify if the call number is LCC, DDC, NLM. or SUDOC, not that Koha is providing access to the 952 indicator currently.
18:27 kados       (btw: items.wthdrawn not items.withdrawn ... a minor misspelling in the framework due to a poorly named column name)
18:26 kados       how so?
18:26 thd         kados: it is necessary for designating the call number for fiction in the case of NPL.
18:26 kados       some of these seem like they won't ever be used
18:25 kados       is that really necessary?
18:25 kados       INSERT INTO `marc_subfield_structure` VALUES ('952', '2', 'Source of classification or shelving scheme (similar to 852 $2)', 'Source of classification or shelving scheme', 0, 0, '', 10, '', '', '', NULL, 0, '', '', '');
18:25 kados       thd: got some questions
18:25 kados       thd: looking at the framework right now
18:22 thd         kados: if using multiple holdings fields is discovered to be too much work for 2.4 do you know of any problems using punctuation for subfields all in one items field?
18:20 thd         kados: pierrick had also been working on that but he is no longer participating :(
18:19 kados       :-)
18:19 thd         kados: russ had been cleaning the whole thing so that you would not have made the mistake in the first place.
18:18 kados       yep
18:18 thd         kados: That way Pascal or whomever can make a French translation under /fr/ instead of /en/
18:18 kados       yea, russ is gonna fix that for me :-)
18:17 thd         kados: the new namespace from devweek has en for English
18:16 thd         kados: also, I have noticed that you have been using the old WIKI namespace
18:16 kados       they do
18:16 thd         kados: looking at http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=zebrasearchingdefinitions#organization_of_materials.  Does NPL not have full call numbers in 952 $k?
18:07 russ        :-)
18:07 russ        oops wrong channel
18:06 thd         russ: I do not see philip logged in?
18:06 russ        philip you there?
18:04 thd         kados: no, having the national library of Turkey using Koha should be all to the good as long as the records can be shared without problems.
18:03 kados       that wouldn't bode well for Koha :-)
18:02 kados       :-)
18:01 thd         kados: nothing like a new national authority file complete with encoding problems :)
18:00 thd         kados: I think tumer has many records that he needs to find before his records including the problem ones become canonical for Turkey
17:58 kados       yes, given enough time to troubleshoot
17:58 thd         kados: really, would it also work for Afognak double encoding, and other similar problems that you have seen?
17:57 kados       thd: it just needs to be updated a bit to deal with these specific probs
17:57 kados       thd: I've got one
17:55 thd         kados: If you had a script that searched for encoding problems you could concentrate on upgrading those records.
17:54 kados       right
17:54 thd         kados: so you did not worry about the issue for NPL because NPL had relatively little MARC 8 data?
17:54 kados       thd: because they had marc-8 data that was interpreted as latin1 data and I think it's been completely mangled in some cases :-)
17:53 kados       thd: for NPL it's hopeless
17:53 kados       thd: it's more a 'how to migrate from mysql 4.0 to 4.1' problem
17:53 kados       thd: not yet
17:53 thd         kados: have you solved the problem of migrating a rel_2_2 installation with UTF-8 data?
17:41 chris       :-)
17:40 kados       even if I know it's not a stable release :-)
17:40 kados       nothing like a release to make you feel like you've acomplished something in a day :-)
17:37 kados       yea
17:37 chris       yep i figure ppl will be asking questions sooner or later
17:37 kados       that need to be moved to the config file
17:37 kados       and there are some hard-coded things still
17:37 chris       :)
17:37 kados       it's no walk in the park :-)
17:37 kados       yep
17:37 chris       so i have an understanding, then ill try out the automatic way
17:36 kados       cool
17:36 chris       ill have a go by hand first
17:36 kados       yea
17:36 chris       but if i follow your docs on the wiki it should work eh?
17:36 kados       chris: but I can send you a tarbal of my migration stuff
17:36 kados       chris: I haven't touched the installation scripts yet
17:36 kados       russ: be my guest :-)
17:36 chris       ill have a go with 2.3 after work, on my koha at home
17:36 kados       russ: sure
17:35 russ        kados - can we move those wiki notes into the en section?
17:35 kados       yea I agree
17:35 chris       i think linking to the file and having good text around the link is the way to go
17:35 kados       yea :-)
17:35 chris       but then you also have to click 54 times to actually download the file
17:34 chris       yep
17:34 kados       names and such like on sourceforge
17:34 kados       too bad you can't put text in the list
17:33 chris       probably the best bet
17:33 kados       ie, not the file list?
17:33 russ        two minutes
17:33 kados       can't we just link directly to the download ?
17:33 chris       and grab it cos its newer
17:33 chris       and see 2.3.0 sitting there
17:33 kados       yea ... 2.2.5 is still good I think
17:32 chris       otherwise they will click on the 2.2.5 link
17:32 kados       so I'm not sure just how much news we want to generate :-)
17:32 kados       but I plan on doing 2.3.1 in a day or two
17:32 kados       definitely
17:32 chris       to make sure ppl know that 2.3.0 is unstable
17:32 chris       http://koha.org/download/  <-- should we write something here
17:32 kados       russ: probably not newsworthy in a general sense
17:32 chris       on savannah
17:31 russ        news item ? where?
17:31 kados       http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/koha/
17:31 chris       excellent
17:31 kados       and I did a news item on it
17:31 kados       yea, it's uploaded
17:27 chris       is half an hour up yet? :-)
16:37 chris       :)
16:30 kados       k, I can handle that
16:30 chris       so we need a gpg key
16:30 chris       https://savannah.gnu.org/faq/?group_id=5802&question=Download_Area_-_How_do_I_add_files.txt
16:28 kados       that's pretty simple
16:28 kados       I've done news before
16:28 kados       yea
16:28 chris       for on that page
16:28 chris       https://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/koha/
16:28 chris       then write some release notes for the news bit
16:28 kados       ahh
16:27 kados       their searches suck
16:27 chris       i think you just have to stick it in here, somehow
16:27 chris       http://download.savannah.nongnu.org/releases/koha/
16:27 chris       hmm maybe not
16:25 chris       but it should be similair to sourceforge
16:25 chris       i havent done a savannah one before
16:25 chris       hmm lemme look
16:24 chris       you will have to go to savannah and do the release thingy
16:24 kados       :-)
16:24 chris       its not that cool :-)
16:24 chris       no
16:24 chris       sweet
16:24 kados       is it also on savannah?
16:24 kados       ok, the tarbal is in my dir now
16:24 kados       yea, I browsed some books at B&N last week about ruby
16:24 kados       cool
16:23 chris       kados: that blog is my first real play with ruby on rails
16:23 kados       well here it comes :-)
16:23 chris       yes
16:23 kados       I'm guessing Y
16:23 kados       Would you like to tag the CVS repository?
16:23 chris       so its really good writing new big chunks of code
16:22 chris       and you get a list of variables you have already used
16:22 chris       plus you type $
16:22 kados       sweet
16:22 chris       {} etc
16:22 chris       ie you type " and it does the matching "
16:22 kados       cool
16:22 chris       make it pretty cool
16:22 chris       the syntax highlighting, and completion ... plus cvs integration
16:21 kados       will do
16:21 chris       id encourage you to take a look at eclipse sometime .. with the epic plugin
16:21 kados       nice new website chris :-)
16:21 kados       neat
16:20 chris       http://www.bigballofwax.co.nz/blog/articles/2006/07/11/eclipse-ide
16:20 chris       hmm interesting synchronicity
16:19 kados       k
16:19 chris       but is probably safest
16:19 chris       doesnt have to be
16:19 kados       chris: should it be a fresh check out?
16:18 chris       (making sure you are in the dev week checkout of course :-))
16:18 chris       so if you are in the base .. then the guess will be right
16:18 chris       it makes a good guess
16:18 chris       it should ask you
16:18 kados       ok
16:18 kados       yea
16:18 kados       perl misc/buildrelease
16:18 chris       perl misc/buildrelease
16:17 chris       sorry prolly need
16:17 chris       in= ie
16:17 chris       in ./misc/buildrelease
16:17 chris       id run it from the base
16:16 kados       chris: and from a specific directory?
16:16 kados       chris: any specific way I should run it?
16:14 kados       I'll give it a shot then
16:14 chris       misc/buildrelease
16:14 kados       sweet
16:14 chris       looks like its all set up for savannah yep
16:12 chris       lemme check
16:12 chris       hmm did i commit my fixes to the script to dev_week?
16:11 kados       cool
16:11 chris       if you tell it to
16:11 kados       so when I run the script will it show up on savannah?
16:11 kados       ok
16:11 kados       no sense making it more complicated
16:11 chris       thats what id do, and use the script to tag the files as 2.3.0
16:11 kados       ok, I"ll just do that then
16:10 kados       poorly named, but fine
16:10 chris       yep
16:10 kados       I suppose I can just use dev_week for that
16:10 kados       is to have a branch that will become 2.4.0
16:10 kados       what I think I want
16:10 kados       well ...
16:09 chris       depends on what you want to do
16:09 chris       so at any point you can check out those files using that that tag
16:09 chris       tags up the files when you make a release
16:09 kados       hmmm
16:09 chris       thats what the script taht creates the tarball does
16:09 chris       not branch .. but then youd still be working in the dev_week branch
16:08 chris       you could just tag it
16:08 kados       k
16:08 chris       doesnt hurt kados
16:08 chris       nothing, thats pretty much the point of version control
16:08 thd         chris: what can be deleted in CVS?
16:08 chris       you'll just be branching a new branch at that point
16:07 kados       ahh
16:07 chris       nope, you cant delete tags
16:07 kados       can I then delete dev_week tag?
16:07 chris       then cvs tag -b branchname
16:06 thd         kados chris: at the time I switched to testing I could net get the updated applications I needed from backports.  I should have been more patient.
16:05 kados       thd: yes
16:05 thd         kados: what is 2.3 as distinct from 2.4?  Isa it the unstable version of 2.4?
16:04 chris       do a clean checkout of dev_week
16:04 dewey       easiest way is to try
16:04 chris       easiest way
16:04 chris       its pretty easy
16:04 kados       chris: if that's possible and you have time to show me how :-)
16:04 kados       chris: and I'd like to re-tag dev_week as rel_2_4
16:03 kados       chris: I'm ready to do a 2.3.0 release
16:03 chris       morning
16:03 kados       hey chris
16:03 kados       thd: backports.org
16:03 kados       thd: yes
16:03 thd         chris: is there a backport of MySQL for upgrading that library?
16:02 chris       thats what backports are for :)
16:02 thd         kados: it was issues like that which drove me to switch to Debian testing much to my later regret.
16:01 thd         kados: Debian stable may be at a special disadvantage with the out of date MySQL libraries that do not understand UTF-8.
16:01 thd         kados: obviously, many uses of Encode::decode are needed for encoding where that can work.
16:01 thd         kados: other problems like encoding rely on external software libraries that you cannot have time to rewrite yourself if they do not work.
16:00 thd         kados: some problems are amazingly simple to solve if you look at them closely.
15:48 kados       :-)
15:48 kados       thd: maybe
15:47 thd         kados: you had said that tumer was going to do that for 3.0 does tumer have an idea?
15:47 kados       thd: no
15:45 thd         kados: do you have a good concept of how much work that would be to fix on top of encoding?
15:44 kados       it's hard to decide what is best in this case
15:43 kados       thd: I didn't understand the issues fully
15:41 thd         kados: well you were proposing to do that for 3.0 not 2.4 a few minutes ago.
15:40 kados       thd: so I suppose we should create holdings based on more than one field
15:39 thd         for standard MARC 21.
15:39 thd         kados: yes exactly but if acquisitions cost is associated with an item and not only in SQL then you need it stored in MARC which means that you need more than one field.
15:38 kados       thd: we are no longer limited to searching/seeing data in the koha tables
15:37 kados       thd: with zebra we can still see that data
15:37 thd         kados: do you not want to know what your items cost?
15:37 kados       I see no reason to map cost to items at all
15:36 thd         kados: nothing about acquisitions is in 852
15:36 kados       but we aren't limited to using the items table now
15:36 thd         kados: but Koha has them both in the items table
15:36 kados       in standard MARC
15:36 kados       ahh, but they aren't in 852
15:36 kados       cost and replacementcost
15:36 kados       Koha does too
15:35 thd         kados: Koha also needs to distinguish different types of cost which MARC stores yet again in other locations acquisitions cost from replacement cost
15:35 kados       I see
15:33 thd         kados: you need to be able to distinguish between 852 $c shelving location and 876 $c cost
15:32 thd         kados: because standard MARC needs 852 and 876-8 not just 852.
15:30 kados       hmmm
15:29 thd         s/biblioitems/items/
15:29 thd         kados: wherever there is code that falls down when biblioitems.itemnumber is linked to multiple fields.
15:27 kados       thd: what code is needed?
15:27 kados       thd: code meaning the editor?
15:27 thd         kados: you have a fully defined framework but you do not have code allowing the use of more than one field for holdings.
15:25 kados       other than a fully defined framework
15:25 kados       I'm not sure what is preventing us now from being completely compliant with MARC Holdings
15:25 kados       thd: I don't think it matters if they are all mapped to 852
15:23 thd         by subfield names I mean $a $b etc.
15:23 thd         kados: 952 as I defined it is basically 852 combined with 876-8 with a few minor additions and omissions.  Obviously, the subfield names cannot match perfectly so I wrote the verbose librarian text to keep everything straight.
15:17 thd         kados: 852 has a very few things which I did not map to 952 such as the address of the library
15:14 thd         kados: those are all mapped to existing Koha items columns and are not in 852
15:13 thd         kados: 876 has some additional medium or long term status indications, where purchased, for how much, replacement price etc.
15:11 kados       right
15:11 kados       tumer is removing that limitation for 3.0
15:11 thd         kados: which is why it had filled all th letters and numbers when you looked
15:10 kados       hmmm
15:10 thd         kados: the problem is that they map to 852, 876-8 and a few others including one or two  that are no part of standard MARC.
15:08 thd         kados: the best I have then is what I recommended for 85k in the framework comments with the addition of punctuation symbols for status etc.
15:08 kados       thd:  you mean that not all koha item fields map to standard 852?
15:07 kados       thd: too many components rely on aA equivilence
15:07 thd         kados: otherwise you would need to remove standard subfields from MARC 21 to use 852
15:07 kados       thd: no
15:06 thd         kados: would you change the data type as needed to allow capital letters for the subfields for 2.4. ?
15:04 thd         kados: so 3.0 could work with the needed code changes but there is not enough room in 852 for everything needed unless you can use capital letters for the subfields
15:02 kados       thd: for 3.0 I mean a really standard one with multiple fields for holdings
15:02 kados       thd: well ... for 2.4 I mean just 852
15:02 thd         kados: do you mean with multiple fields for the holdings instead of everything in one field?
15:01 thd         kados: oh you mean really standard
15:00 kados       thd: and link holdings records to bib records
15:00 kados       thd: I think we could create a holdings framework
14:59 thd         kados: my recommendation is just like what I had specified for 952 except that their is a greater alignment between MARC 21 subfield names and what I specified.
14:58 thd         kados: It cannot be really standard unless you change all the code that needs one and only one MARC field defined for holdings.
14:56 kados       thd: does it include call number goodness?
14:56 kados       thd: add the onloan stuff
14:56 kados       thd: perhaps I'll just pull that out then
14:56 kados       ahh
14:56 thd         kados: I did write a more standard MARC holdings framework in the recommendations comment within the standard MARC 21 framework
14:55 kados       thd: to make it easier for customization  (ie, a smaller file)
14:55 kados       thd: from the standard MARC framework
14:55 kados       thd: I've been thinking it might be useful to separate the holdings definitions
14:54 thd         kados: there are not enough lowercase letters and numbers and punctuation to hold all the predefined or reserved 852 subfields in addition to things that are not in 852 such as the things in 876-878
14:54 kados       thd: have you considered writing a 'standaard MARC holdings' framework?
14:54 kados       thd: how many items do we need to track?
14:50 kados       capital letters--
14:50 thd         kados: 852 $A $B etc.
14:50 kados       capital letters--
14:49 thd         kados: another reason would be that you do not have enough subfields for everything that you need to track in one field unless you use capital letters.
14:48 kados       thd: given a proper framework
14:48 kados       thd: rebuildnonmarc can fix that up
14:48 thd         kados: well one reason for continuing to use a Koha specific items field is that you have the data in the wrong locations in existing records
14:47 kados       thd: with zebra?
14:47 kados       thd: but why do we need to parse it at all?
14:46 thd         kados: I already have most of the code for parsing that neatly written for you n Perl
14:46 kados       it occurs to me to ask why we're trying to map 852 to 952
14:45 kados       that's a lot to parse
14:45 kados       hmmm
14:44 thd         kados: 952 $t would come from 852 $t only from previous records of the same library.
14:43 thd         kados: 952 $m is seldom used but would come from 852 $m only from previous records of the same library.
14:42 thd         kados: 952 $i would come from either 082 $b, 092, 055 $b, or 852 $i depending on what was filled except that libraries may have their own preferred cuttering scheme and the supplied item part of the number may not be unique in the library's own collection.
14:38 thd         kados: 055 and 852 should be tested for having the correct indicators or the correct number type when indicators were not set.
14:37 thd         kados: 952 $h would come from either 082 $a, 092, 055 $a, or 852 $h depending on what was filled.
14:34 thd         kados: so 952 $o could be filled from the values contained in 942 $c for NPL.
14:32 thd         kados: in the current MARC 21 framework that is 952 $o $h $i $t
14:30 thd         kados: spine labels should be 852 $k $h $i $m with the addition of c. $t where $t > 1 .
14:28 thd         kados: the 852 $h $i tend to be more standard than 852 $k and $m which depends on how the library wants to organise its collection
14:27 kados       right ... any suggestions on that?
14:26 thd         kados: and then there is the need to economise the space on the small spine label.
14:26 kados       :-)
14:25 thd         kados: yet English language usage provides FIC more usually as opposed to FICT, REF as opposed to REFE, etc.
14:24 thd         kados: oh you were saying it was not consistent.  Each library has to apply the basic intent to its own needs.
14:22 thd         kados: amazing how far a little cultural conformism will go to address the same problem in the same manner
14:21 kados       which turns out not to be very consistant :-)
14:21 thd         kados: material types have multiple standards
14:21 thd         kados: no just common practise
14:20 kados       is there a standard that defines them somewhere?
14:20 kados       right
14:19 thd         kados: those are item types of some sort but not a true material type
14:18 thd         kados: 852 $k is usually something like JUV, REF, FIC, etc. at most libraries
14:17 thd         kados: yes but that is way in which NPL is using the itemtypes that it has defined
14:16 kados       from fields in the MARc
14:16 kados       but they do generate spine labels
14:16 kados       they aren't
14:16 thd         kados: I thought that NPL was not yet using Koha for spine labels
14:16 kados       not the call number
14:16 kados       but that's the itemtype
14:15 thd         kados: so you should fill 852 $o in the current standard MARC 21 framework with the contents of 942 $c
14:15 kados       afaik the spine labels are coming from a value mapped to callnumber
14:15 kados       but 942 $c is not where the spine labels are printed from
14:15 kados       yep
14:14 thd         s/our/your/
14:13 thd         kados: all our libraries do the same as far as I know
14:13 kados       right
14:13 thd         owen kados: NPL uses biblioitems.itemtype stored in 942 $c as the equivalent of 852 $k
14:11 owen        biblioitems.itemtype
14:11 kados       right
14:10 thd         kados: you were correct originally you should revert to the previous version in the wiki
14:10 owen        Yes
14:09 thd         owen: do the item type codes that you use appear on the spine labels?
14:08 thd         kados: I think that you had it correct previously it was 942 $c
14:07 owen        Our current production database doesn't store anything in items.location.
14:06 thd         owen: the MARC location defined in the framework used originally by NPL to store the contents of `items.location`
14:04 thd         kados: then they are using that for 852 $k
14:04 owen        Sorry, what? What's 952 $c?
14:04 kados       owen: right?
14:04 kados       yes
14:01 thd         kados: do they have the values in 952 $c on their spine labels?
13:58 kados       fixed
13:57 kados       thd: it should read 952$c
13:57 kados       thd: that is my mistake
13:56 thd         kados: it seems as if they are using 942$c for the equivalent of $852 $k call number prefix
13:52 kados       thd: I could use some expansion on what I've written to more accurately describe the components of collection organization
13:52 kados       thd: the 'organization of materials' section is most relevant
13:51 kados       thd: I think it would also be useful in this case
13:51 kados       thd: this is a document I wrote for NPL to help them clearly define their cataloging practices
13:51 thd         kados: I provided all those in 952 in the framework
13:51 kados       thd: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=zebrasearchingdefinitions
13:50 thd         kados: MARC has provided 852 $k $h $i $m
13:48 thd         kados: it does not need to be in the SQL tables
13:47 kados       (or inventory)
13:47 kados       thd: the only reason for it to be in the koha tables with zebra is if it is used by the system in managing the collection somehow (like circ rules)
13:46 thd         kados: call numbers are numbers of which the classification element is only one part
13:46 kados       thd: because with zebra, we don't need it to be in the koha tables to search or display it
13:46 kados       thd: fill it with values coming from the MARC?
13:46 thd         kados: the objective is to fill the call number by the library's preference
13:45 kados       do we need to distinguish between call numbers and classification?
13:45 kados       to search and display call numbers correctly right?
13:45 thd         kados: you could define the standard locations in advance but they are multiple
13:45 kados       so what is our objective?
13:44 kados       hmmm
13:44 thd         kados: the bibliographic framework should not be the place to define whether the library prefers DDC, UDC, LCC, etc.  should it.
13:44 kados       thd: what I mean is that each library will have to define that part of their framework
13:43 thd         kados: the type of classification that a library is using is up to the library and cannot be defined for all libraries
13:42 kados       thd: ie, the mappings would define it for us
13:41 thd         kados: we could add a column to the framework to specify which locations are good for identifying particular parts of a call number.
13:41 kados       thd: define the type of classification being used
13:40 thd         kados: define what in the framework?
13:39 kados       couldn't we just define it in the framework instead of a preference?
13:39 thd         kados: mere classification is unknown because there are many different classifications and MARC never has one and only one place to hide a given classification.
13:39 kados       hmmm
13:37 thd         kados: to remind you we need a preference for call number type LCC, DDC, UDC, etc. and a preference for cutter type and rule and a preference for secondary classification defined by an exception list such as material type specifying fiction.
13:35 kados       and define local call number as either classification or call number depending on whether it's fiction or non-fiction
13:34 kados       and local call number
13:34 kados       if we distinguish between classification and call number
13:34 kados       it can be achieved with minimal coding
13:34 kados       well ... not necessarily
13:32 thd         kados: however, there is no code for what we had discussed previously for the case where NPL needs a couple of system preferences for treating fiction differently etc.
13:31 thd         yes
13:30 kados       in perl?
13:30 thd         kados: I have code for filling the various call number parts for use in labels etc.
13:28 kados       perhaps :-)
13:26 thd         kados: I think that had been your request at one time
13:26 kados       thd: it's set to mandatory in the framework I believe
13:25 thd         kados: I never set it to mandatory except by request
13:25 kados       thd: but I agree we need a method to alert if a field hasn't been filled in but let the cataloger proceed
13:25 kados       thd: also, barcode should not be a mandatory field
13:25 thd         kados: do you think that we might run out of punctuation symbols?
13:24 kados       yes, I understand that
13:24 kados       :-)
13:24 thd         kados: the descriptions were written to not confuse me :)
13:23 kados       another status
13:23 kados       paidfor
13:23 thd         kados: those are already mapped except for binding
13:23 kados       thd: so that a librarian is not confused :-)
13:23 kados       thd: we also need to clean up the descriptive language of the item labels
13:22 kados       notforloan, itemlost, wthdrawn,binding I think
13:22 thd         kados: how many are they?
13:22 thd         kados: what are all of the statuses?
13:22 kados       because then we can search on it
13:22 kados       the more we can store in zebra the better
13:22 kados       datelastseen, etc.
13:21 kados       things like datelastborrowed would be useful too
13:21 kados       thd: all of the statuses need to be mapped
13:21 kados       thd: that may include adding a column to items (fine by me)
13:21 kados       thd: we need to come up with a scheme for call number
13:20 kados       thd: items fields mainly
13:20 kados       well ...
13:20 thd         kados: what do you want to map in a good mapping scheme?
13:19 thd         kados: I thought you added date because things were not working.  Not that they worked afterwards.
13:18 kados       date is in issues, not in items
13:18 thd         kados: did you not need another for date?
13:18 kados       thd: I could use your advice on a good mapping scheme
13:18 kados       yes, that's the only one
13:17 kados       ahh
13:16 thd         kados: items.onloan etc linked to 952 $X?
13:15 kados       linking?
13:15 thd         ?
13:15 thd         kados: did you link only 2 yesterday
13:15 kados       ?
13:14 thd         kados:  what Koha SQL columns need linking to the bibliographic framework for 2.2.4?
13:13 thd         kados: I would need to have much more time than I have to fix my local mail system again to solve that quota problem
13:11 kados       ahh
13:10 thd         kados: I had to avoid overfilling an email quota with commits so I do not see them in real time.
13:10 kados       thd: didn't you see the 40+ commits this morning? :-)
13:09 kados       thd: dev-week is now completely in sync with rel_2_2 except without the MARC editor bugs :-)
13:09 kados       thd: yes
13:09 thd         kados: you have updated devel-week since it was not working yesterday?
13:08 kados       thd: dev-week for sure
13:08 kados       thd: it is now working in dev-week and rel_2_2 afaik
13:07 thd         kados: only on the Liblime server?
13:06 thd         kados: where is the working editor code if it is not in devel-week?
13:06 kados       thd: great!
13:06 thd         kados: works nicely now
12:59 thd         goody
12:59 kados       thd: and it's commited
12:59 kados       thd: afognak has the fix
12:59 thd         kados: is the fix committed or where can I test the fix
12:58 kados       thd: 1106 is fixed
12:54 kados       (not that interesting to you :-)
12:53 kados       but if not I'll certainly have a look
12:53 kados       I think that's fixed in devweek
12:53 kados       yea
12:52 owen        Did you see the issues with "you did not specify any search criteria" with sorted search results?
12:41 kados       marc8->latin1->latin1->latin1 :)
12:40 kados       I suspect these are triple or even quadrupal encoded
12:40 kados       http://zoomopac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-MARCdetail.pl?bib=49201
12:35 kados       let me know if you need more
12:34 kados       ok, well now you've got access to the koha-tmpl dir
12:34 owen        I don't know
12:34 kados       (to upload changes?
12:34 kados       (do you need write access to more than just the template files?
12:33 kados       cuz that's what's up on zoomopac
12:33 kados       as far as maintenance goes, are you using a fresh copy of the dev-week code?
12:33 kados       so ...
12:32 owen        Just have to resize the form field a little
12:31 kados       owen: which I assume is win98 or 2000
12:31 kados       owen: it looked the same way on the circ computer at the plains
12:31 kados       owen: that _is_ firefox :-)
12:30 owen        Wow, kados, that's remarkably different than Firefox's rendering.
12:28 owen        I think yes to skipping the faceted searches, in the interests of time
12:26 kados       owen: check your inbox
12:24 kados       I'll send you a screenshot
12:23 owen        Only the simple search is a little squeezed, but that's just the big form field.
12:23 owen        Both look okay to me
12:23 kados       the search form I think
12:23 owen        Was that issue with the search form or the results?
12:23 kados       the faceted searches we're going to skip I think, right?
12:23 kados       anything else?
12:22 kados       the 800 x 600 thing
12:22 kados       so as far as the OPAC goes ...
12:22 kados       right
12:21 owen        Yesterday as far as we got was, "needs to fit 800x600" monitor
12:20 kados       so ... where shall we start?
12:19 kados       owen: ok, I'm back :-)
12:19 kados       phone ringing off the hook
12:19 kados       sheesh