Time Nick Message 13:10 kados hey tumer 13:11 kados tumer: did you see the 'scan' option now? 13:11 tumer hi kados 13:11 tumer i didnot 13:11 kados tumer: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ 13:11 kados tumer: go to 'power search' 13:11 kados tumer: type in a search and click on the 'scan the index' checkbox 13:11 kados well ... 'scan indexes' actually 13:12 kados you can specify whether to show a complete subfield with the completeness attribute 13:12 tumer it sets a local ip number i cannot connet to zoomopac 13:12 kados and you can limit by field, etc. 13:12 kados ? 13:12 kados what sets a local IP? 13:12 tumer http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ 13:13 tumer http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ 13:13 kados tumer: http://66.213.78.100/ 13:13 kados that IP will work too 13:13 tumer not connected yet if it dows i'll give it a try 13:14 kados k 13:14 tumer it seems you exelled in this zebra i cannot catch up with you 13:14 kados there's more to come :-) 13:14 kados I'm looking into doing asynchronous OPAC queries 13:15 tumer why? 13:15 thd kados: I verified that attributes are not specified to function any differently with scan or search 13:15 tumer check zebraop in biblio.pm it dows asynch 13:16 kados tumer: cool ... 13:16 tumer we need async for Z3950quee procedures 13:16 tumer you commtted something for that i believe 13:17 kados all I committed (to rel_2_2) was an update of processz3950queue to work with ZOOM 13:17 kados it needs to be completely re-written to use ZOOM properly 13:17 tumer my internet connection from proxy is broken i cannot see anything yet 13:18 tumer kados:we decided to remove everythýng from koha regarding old db. MARC and zebra only from now on 13:19 kados tumer: who's we? 13:19 tumer NEU 13:19 kados wow ... 13:19 kados that's great 13:20 tumer is it good for you as well? 13:20 kados well, I think so 13:20 kados not for dev-week 13:20 kados but I think that makes sense for 3.0 13:20 kados will you still store the marc in mysql? 13:20 tumer yes and only the marc record 13:21 kados cool, I think that's the best approach 13:21 kados and I think we should separate holdings from biblios 13:21 tumer currently its working like that except items 13:21 kados have two separate zebra dbs for them 13:21 kados so we'd have: 13:21 kados biblios 13:21 kados items 13:21 kados authorities 13:21 dewey i heard authorities was authority records 13:21 kados reservoir 13:21 dewey i think reservoir is identical to biblios but not the actual catalog 13:22 kados those four would be the zebra databases 13:22 tumer reservoir is good as it is 13:22 kados I disagree 13:22 kados because it is impossible to find anything 13:22 kados unless you know the exact title 13:22 kados better to put it in zebra 13:23 tumer authority i committed like that anyway 13:23 tumer k for reservoir 13:23 kados yep ... though I haven't tried it yet 13:23 kados I've also been talking to ID about the default 'simple search' 13:23 tumer any news 13:23 kados and they are going to expose the CCL query stuff in Yaz 13:24 tumer ccl or CQL 13:24 kados which will be a more user friendly default 13:24 kados CCL 13:24 kados it will accept: 13:24 kados harry potter 13:24 kados whereas in CQL you have to go: 13:24 kados "harry potter" 13:24 kados or 13:24 kados harry and potter 13:24 kados CQL will still be an option 13:24 kados I'd like to expose all the supported query languages 13:25 tumer cool 13:25 kados and let libraries (and patrons) choose which they want to use 13:25 kados anyway, as soon as the CCL stuff is done (next day or so) 13:25 kados I need to double-check that adds/edits are working 13:25 kados (think I need to modif this db a bit to enable them) 13:25 kados and I'd like to test authorities after that 13:26 kados once it's stable 13:26 kados I'll release 2.3.0 13:26 tumer by the way i noticed you keep changing cql to cqlrpn query all the time any reason? 13:26 kados heh ... sorry :-) 13:26 kados i was experimenting with trying to defive the RPN from the CQL2RPN call 13:26 kados no luck yet 13:26 tumer they are exactly the same search you know 13:27 tumer the only differnce is: 13:27 kados yea ... but the difference is that my interface needs to have access the the RPN 13:27 kados so we can pass it on for merging queries, resorting, etc. 13:27 kados another thing I need to ask ID about :-) 13:27 tumer they both return the same result except: 13:27 kados anyway ... I'm swamped today 13:28 kados go ahead 13:28 tumer if i want to reach your zebra but use my own pqf.properties i use cqlrpn 13:28 tumer if i wqnt to leave it as you defined it i us e cql 13:29 tumer so with cqlrpn i can define my own pqf.properties 13:29 tumer with me? 13:30 tumer so if i do cql search server looks to find the pqf.properties automatically from <cql2rpn> definition 13:31 tumer otherwise i have to tell where the pqf.properties is during conntection and us e cqlrpn 13:31 tumer internally oth turned into pqf 13:31 tumer thats it 13:31 kados I see 13:32 tumer and found some info about ports 13:32 tumer 210 for z3950 13:32 tumer 346 for zebra 13:32 tumer universally accepted 13:33 tumer its just a note 13:33 kados cool 13:37 tumer do you know any good reading about holdings marc apaprt from LC web site? 13:38 tumer how to implement it? 13:38 kados yes 13:38 kados hang on a sec 13:38 kados http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/crs0000.htm 13:38 kados click on 'Holdings' 13:38 tumer thanks 13:38 kados that site also has good info on Authorities 13:41 tumer http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ 13:42 tumer http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ is working now wher do i look 13:44 kados go to power search 13:44 kados and use the little checkbox for 'Scan Indexes' 13:45 kados experiment with completeness attributes and with phrase vs word 13:45 tumer very nice 13:45 kados scanning the indexes might be an interesting way to provide minimal authorities headings for people without authorties 13:46 tumer clicking on count can take us to biblios of those word probably 13:46 kados in fact, it already works :-) 13:47 tumer so it does excellent 13:47 kados yup 13:48 kados and it's committed already, so you can play with it :-) 13:48 kados I don't have time to code today ... working on another project 13:48 kados but I'm eager to get back to it :-) 13:48 tumer great work and you say you didn't know programming? 13:48 kados it's been a lot of fun to work on once I got the basics of Zebra down 13:48 kados yea, no formal programming :-) 13:49 kados I just picked it up along the way :-) 13:50 tumer hear hear 13:50 tumer and some keep learning without ever lraning 13:51 tumer anyway since internet is back i better start downloading the new commits 13:52 tumer bye all 13:52 kados have fun :-) 13:52 kados bye tumer 15:12 rach howdy 15:28 thd hello rach 15:31 thd kados: I have an item that cannot be deleted because it could not have been created. A phantom item. 17:54 thd kados: are you any less busy now? 17:54 thd kados: I found the origin of the bug I had been reporting 17:56 thd kados: if you duplicate a field the duplicated record loses the a in 000/09. 17:57 thd s/duplicated/reloaded/ 02:10 btoumi hi all 02:16 osmoze hello 02:16 btoumi hi osmoze 02:35 btoumi :paul are u here? 02:37 paul yep. 02:37 paul salut btoumi 02:41 btoumi :paul salut 03:13 thd good morning paul 03:15 thd paul: are you there? 03:15 paul (on phone) 03:16 thd paul: let me know when you are off phone, I have two simple questions 03:22 paul thd : i'm back 03:23 thd paul: maybe 3 questions 03:23 paul I couldn't ask you if your trip to spain was nice, after the devWeek. So, feel free to answer this question too ;-) 03:24 thd paul: first I committed my expanded MARC 21 bibliographic framework 03:24 paul yes, I saw them, thx 03:25 thd yes my trip to Spain was very good and there may be a possibility for Koha there, I am investigating 03:26 thd paul: I did not use the verbose column naming insert convention but used the column sequence only convention 03:26 thd paul: the same convention I had used for editing the framework 03:27 thd paul: this is a little less reliable but would there be any problem in this case? 03:27 paul I don't think so, except with mySQL 5.x 03:27 paul but there already are many problems with mySQL 5, so ... 03:28 paul mmm... 03:28 paul no, sorry, i misread your message. 03:28 paul there's no problem exporting without complete sql insert, except when there is a database change. 03:28 paul but in 2.2.x there is none. 03:28 Comete hello 03:28 paul that may be a problem for 3.x 03:28 paul hi Comete a 03:29 btoumi hi comete 03:29 thd paul: I could have substituted the more verbose form with a regex but I feared a mistake in my regex might do more harm 03:30 Comete is there a way to keep the first enrolled date of a borrower AND the last one ? 03:30 thd paul: 3.0 is the same so far and future revisions can always add columns 03:31 paul right. 03:31 paul Comete: not in koha 2, ask btoumi for koha 3 03:31 thd paul: how would this be a problem for MySQL 5.X specifically? 03:32 Comete btoumi: is there a way to keep the first enrolled date of a borrower AND the last one ? in koha 3 03:32 paul I misread your question, so there is nont 03:32 paul none 03:32 btoumi :Comete Yes 03:32 Comete youpi 03:32 Comete :) 03:33 btoumi ;=) 03:34 thd paul: I have another SQL script for applying the MARC 21 default framework to an existing installation. It is not a very clever script so it should not be run automatically. 03:34 paul put it in misc, with a proper documentation. 03:34 paul if it can be used, then it can be published. even if it is with a lot of care ! 03:35 thd paul: It works fine but it would be very rude to run it automatically on an unsuspecting user. 03:36 thd paul: It has many comments for documentation 03:36 paul to solve this problem I usually : 03:36 paul - add a -c flag to "confirm that I want to run this script" 03:36 Comete does anyone read my post on the wiki fr ? there are no comments at the moment... 03:37 paul - just show help when the script is called without any parameter 03:37 Comete i would like to know if these features already exist 03:37 thd paul: can I do that for an SQL script? 03:37 paul Comete: you should ask once again on infos@ mailing list ;-) 03:37 paul (& i will answer wherever I find some time) 03:38 paul mmm... no, sorry. If it's pure SQL, you can't 03:38 Comete paul: ok thank you 03:39 thd paul: It does have a very large warning with a big stop now menage in a comment about what it will do. 03:39 thd s/menage/message 03:39 paul that should be enough 03:41 thd paul: perhaps your recent fix to the MARC record editor has prevented fields from being duplicated in the NPL templates? 03:41 paul I can't test everything, sorry :\ 03:41 thd paul: I leave that for owen and kados to sort out :) 03:42 thd paul: at least it no longer corrupts the MARC 21 records when the field is duplicated 03:43 thd paul: I did notice that in the default template it duplicated the field content along with the field. Is that a bug or a feature :) ? 03:43 paul good question... 03:44 paul some think this is a bug, other this is a feature 03:45 thd paul: as long as the record is not corrupted the duplicated content can always be overwritten. 03:47 thd paul: I discovered yesterday that the former problem I was having with MARC 21 records was that every time I duplicated a field leader position 9 would change from Unicode to MARC 8 and then MARC::XML would mange the record upon saving. 03:48 thd paul: thanks for fixing that. 08:48 kyle_away /nick kyle 10:25 thd kados: are you any less busy today? 10:26 btoumi by all 10:29 thd owen: are you there? 10:29 owen yes 10:29 thd owen: did you see my newly reported bug? 10:30 owen bug 1104? 10:31 thd yes 10:32 thd owen: I think this may be in consequence of what paul had done to fix other problems with the editor. 10:33 thd owen: so the editor may work ok now for the intranet templates but something needs to be done for the NPL templates 10:34 thd s/intranet/default/ 10:34 owen So the duplicate field function works in the default templates but not npl's? 10:34 thd yes 10:36 thd owen: please note an earlier bug where leader position 9 would change from an 'a' to blank on field duplication. That resulted in record corruption after saving. 10:36 owen Any idea of the cause of that? 10:37 thd owen: do you mean the change in the leader position 9 10:37 thd ? 10:37 owen Yes 10:39 thd owen: Maybe MARC::XML was not recognising the presence of the 'a' for Unicode and resetting it to blank for MARC 8. 10:39 thd owen: the consequences would be bad for scrambling the subfields where there were more than two subfields in a field. 10:40 thd owen: The scrambling was evident after saving. 10:41 thd owen: that is the unreported bug referenced in bug # 1104 10:41 owen Hi shedges! 10:41 shedges hey owen 10:42 thd owen: with paul's fix and certainly with no field duplication that bug is no longer manifesting. 10:44 thd owen: without field duplication, proper records cannot be created in most instances. 10:49 thd owen: are you still there? 10:50 owen yeah, but I'm bouncing between a few different tasks 10:53 thd owen: although it is much less important, It would seem very useful to have the preference system read the directories and show the available CSS options as it does with the available template options instead of forcing the user to hunt for them. 10:53 owen I agree. kados and I have talked about it, but haven't had time to make it happen 10:54 thd owen: what is kados doing now? This editor bug is very serious. 10:57 thd owen: he does now have customers using the editor, unless they have adopted something else in the face of multiple bugs. 10:58 thd tumer: are you there? 10:58 tumer hi thd 10:58 owen thd: I am hardly ever in direct contact with kados. We communicate here. 10:58 owen So I don't know where he is either 10:59 thd owen: I know kados is very busy, I suspect5t with whatever he was busy with since midday yesterday. 10:59 tumer thd & owen: i use npl templates with a different fix 10:59 thd tumer: really do you have your own fix for the record editor? 11:00 tumer before pauls commits i changed the java in npl templatws and it seems to work 11:00 tumer just comment everything regarding trigger and it seems to work foe me 11:01 thd tumer: maybe you could even commit those changes 11:01 tumer i did not commit them as i was still testing them but pauls commits came so i stopped 11:02 tumer i cannot reproduce the bug you are talking about though 11:03 tumer my problem was that i could not repaet a field more than once, now i can 11:03 thd tumer: paul fixed some problems but now repeatable fields cannot be added for the NPL templates only. 11:03 thd tumer: I cannot repeat a field any times now with the NPL templates 11:04 thd tumer: this is now bug # 1104 11:04 tumer i dont know what paul has fixed but i did not implement it as i did not have a bug 11:05 thd tumer: are you running a forked bug free Koha or do you not use the record editor vigorously enough to notice the bugs? 11:05 tumer probably rather than doing an official commit i'll pass the changes to owen so he can test them 11:06 thd tumer: whatever solves the problem quickly. 11:07 tumer we use the editor vigorously but a stable version of koha 11:07 thd tumer: paul is preparing to issue a release while the NPL templates are not working for the record editor now. 11:08 tumer i'll have a quick look 11:08 thd tumer: you miss out on all the excitement by using a stable version. 11:09 tumer stabilised tumers version 11:12 owen When I look at the fresh-from-cvs copy of addbiblio.pl, I don't see any tabs. 11:13 thd owen: you mean tabs for groups of fields? 11:13 owen Yeah 11:14 tumer thd :just committed the fixed template 11:14 tumer test it whether it works 11:14 thd owen: well you only have whatever tabs your framework defines 11:14 owen My framework hasn't changed, as far as I know. 11:15 thd owen: do you mean that all fields appear in one long form at the same time? 11:15 owen The source shows all the right form fields for all tags, but the tabs don't appear 11:15 owen thd: should they? 11:16 tumer owen: paul has put them in a tabloop now i did not test it yet though 11:17 thd owen: one long form had not been historic behaviour but I had thought that it might be faster for me to use. Yet I never suggested it to anyone. 11:17 owen I thought he was just referring to how the script passed the data to the templates... 11:17 tumer he also changed the default.tmpl it has to read a loop now (i think) 11:19 owen I see the tabs in the default template, but they don't work :) 11:19 thd tumer: does your record editor use one long form or are tabs needed for navigating to different field groups? 11:19 tumer tabs are there 11:19 tumer i did not update to pauls biblio.pm and addbiblio.pl 11:20 thd tumer: does your record editor use one long form with all fields appearing simultaneously with the tabs as an additional navigation feature. 11:20 thd ? 11:21 tumer editor has tabs, field appear acoording to tabs 11:22 thd owen: so tumer did not knowingly introduce such an innovation in your checkout 11:23 thd owen: my problem with the tabs is that there is poor or no keyboard only navigation to the tabs. 11:24 owen I'm not fond of the tabs myself. When I first designed the npl templates I took them out. Then the catalogers asked for them back. Now they're asking for them to go away again :) 11:24 thd owen: every time I need to touch the mouse keys I am doing something much slower than necessary. 11:25 thd owen: I think the tabs are fine if they had a good keyboard shortcut. 11:25 tumer thd: tabs and field duplication are 2 different issues. Paul did a commit that changed both features. I did not use it. All i am 11:26 thd owen: I did not think you had any cataloguers using the record editor for anything other than updating holdings. 11:26 tumer saying with old NPL templates my fix works for duplication for me 11:27 thd tumer: I am aware that they are different. Tabs are a relatively unimportant user interface issue compare to adding repeated fields. 11:27 thd s/compare/compared/ 11:27 tumer sure 11:30 thd tumer: I want to send you a URL without having the whole world bombard my poor machine without enough memory or bandwidth, etc. to accommodate them. 11:30 tumer tgarip@neu.edu.tr 11:30 thd tumer: do private channel IRC messages not work on your IRC client? 11:31 tumer should do i think never used it 11:52 thd tumer: is there something frustrating about asynchronous mode? 11:52 tumer frustating for you on a dial up 11:53 tumer to update your Dbian i mean 11:53 thd tumer: oh yes, I live in ancient building with ancient wiring. 11:54 thd tumer: I update very infrequently for that reason. 11:54 tumer thd have you heard of kados today 11:54 tumer my utf8 problem still persists with this new XML as well 11:54 thd tumer: kados seems to have been completely unreachable since you communication with him yesterday, 11:55 tumer i believe he is deep in ZEBRA 11:55 thd tumer: To what UTF-8 problem are you referring? 11:56 tumer with this new MARC-XML my characters (template only) get scrumbled 11:56 tumer i get wid-character-in print warnings from perl 11:56 tumer s/wid/wide 11:57 thd tumer: That error message can be avoided by informing Perl that you will be using wide characters 11:58 tumer yes but on screen they are scrumbled as well? 11:59 thd tumer: unless they are really scrambled that is a font problem in the CSS for which I fell asleep trying to prepare commits a couple of months ago.