Time  Nick      Message
13:10 kados     hey tumer
13:11 kados     tumer: did you see the 'scan' option now?
13:11 tumer     hi kados
13:11 tumer     i didnot
13:11 kados     tumer: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/
13:11 kados     tumer: go to 'power search'
13:11 kados     tumer: type in a search and click on the 'scan the index' checkbox
13:11 kados     well ... 'scan indexes' actually
13:12 kados     you can specify whether to show a complete subfield with the completeness attribute
13:12 tumer     it sets a local ip number i cannot connet to zoomopac
13:12 kados     and you can limit by field, etc.
13:12 kados     ?
13:12 kados     what sets a local IP?
13:12 tumer     http://zoomopac.liblime.com/
13:13 tumer     http://zoomopac.liblime.com/
13:13 kados     tumer: http://66.213.78.100/
13:13 kados     that IP will work too
13:13 tumer     not connected yet if it dows i'll give it a try
13:14 kados     k
13:14 tumer     it seems you exelled in this zebra i cannot catch up with you
13:14 kados     there's more to come :-)
13:14 kados     I'm looking into doing asynchronous OPAC queries
13:15 tumer     why?
13:15 thd       kados: I verified that attributes are not specified to function any differently with scan or search
13:15 tumer     check zebraop in biblio.pm it dows asynch
13:16 kados     tumer: cool ...
13:16 tumer     we need async for Z3950quee procedures
13:16 tumer     you commtted something for that i believe
13:17 kados     all I committed (to rel_2_2) was an update of processz3950queue to work with ZOOM
13:17 kados     it needs to be completely re-written to use ZOOM properly
13:17 tumer     my internet connection from proxy is broken i cannot see anything yet
13:18 tumer     kados:we decided to remove everythýng from koha regarding old db. MARC and zebra only from now on
13:19 kados     tumer: who's we?
13:19 tumer     NEU
13:19 kados     wow ...
13:19 kados     that's great
13:20 tumer     is it good for you as well?
13:20 kados     well, I think so
13:20 kados     not for dev-week
13:20 kados     but I think that makes sense for 3.0
13:20 kados     will you still store the marc in mysql?
13:20 tumer     yes and only the marc record
13:21 kados     cool, I think that's the best approach
13:21 kados     and I think we should separate holdings from biblios
13:21 tumer     currently its working like that except items
13:21 kados     have two separate zebra dbs for them
13:21 kados     so we'd have:
13:21 kados     biblios
13:21 kados     items
13:21 kados     authorities
13:21 dewey     i heard authorities was authority records
13:21 kados     reservoir
13:21 dewey     i think reservoir is identical to biblios but not the actual catalog
13:22 kados     those four would be the zebra databases
13:22 tumer     reservoir is good as it is
13:22 kados     I disagree
13:22 kados     because it is impossible to find anything
13:22 kados     unless you know the exact title
13:22 kados     better to put it in zebra
13:23 tumer     authority i committed like that anyway
13:23 tumer     k for reservoir
13:23 kados     yep ... though I haven't tried it yet
13:23 kados     I've also been talking to ID about the default 'simple search'
13:23 tumer     any news
13:23 kados     and they are going to expose the CCL query stuff in Yaz
13:24 tumer     ccl or CQL
13:24 kados     which will be a more user friendly default
13:24 kados     CCL
13:24 kados     it will accept:
13:24 kados     harry potter
13:24 kados     whereas in CQL you have to go:
13:24 kados     "harry potter"
13:24 kados     or
13:24 kados     harry and potter
13:24 kados     CQL will still be an option
13:24 kados     I'd like to expose all the supported query languages
13:25 tumer     cool
13:25 kados     and let libraries (and patrons) choose which they want to use
13:25 kados     anyway, as soon as the CCL stuff is done (next day or so)
13:25 kados     I need to double-check that adds/edits are working
13:25 kados     (think I need to modif this db a bit to enable them)
13:25 kados     and I'd like to test authorities after that
13:26 kados     once it's stable
13:26 kados     I'll release 2.3.0
13:26 tumer     by the way i noticed you keep changing cql to cqlrpn query all the time any reason?
13:26 kados     heh ... sorry :-)
13:26 kados     i was experimenting with trying to defive the RPN from the CQL2RPN call
13:26 kados     no luck yet
13:26 tumer     they are exactly the same search you know
13:27 tumer     the only differnce is:
13:27 kados     yea ... but the difference is that my interface needs to have access the the RPN
13:27 kados     so we can pass it on for merging queries, resorting, etc.
13:27 kados     another thing I need to ask ID about :-)
13:27 tumer     they both return the same result except:
13:27 kados     anyway ... I'm swamped today
13:28 kados     go ahead
13:28 tumer     if i want to reach your zebra but use my own pqf.properties i use cqlrpn
13:28 tumer     if i wqnt to leave it as you defined it i us e cql
13:29 tumer     so with cqlrpn i can define my own pqf.properties
13:29 tumer     with me?
13:30 tumer     so if i do cql search server looks to find the pqf.properties automatically from <cql2rpn> definition
13:31 tumer     otherwise i have to tell where the pqf.properties is during conntection and us e cqlrpn
13:31 tumer     internally oth turned into pqf
13:31 tumer     thats it
13:31 kados     I see
13:32 tumer     and found some info about ports
13:32 tumer     210 for z3950
13:32 tumer     346 for zebra
13:32 tumer     universally accepted
13:33 tumer     its just a note
13:33 kados     cool
13:37 tumer     do you know any good reading about holdings marc apaprt from LC web site?
13:38 tumer     how to implement it?
13:38 kados     yes
13:38 kados     hang on a sec
13:38 kados     http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/crs0000.htm
13:38 kados     click on 'Holdings'
13:38 tumer     thanks
13:38 kados     that site also has good info on Authorities
13:41 tumer     http://zoomopac.liblime.com/
13:42 tumer     http://zoomopac.liblime.com/  is working now wher do i look
13:44 kados     go to power search
13:44 kados     and use the little checkbox for 'Scan Indexes'
13:45 kados     experiment with completeness attributes and with phrase vs word
13:45 tumer     very nice
13:45 kados     scanning the indexes might be an interesting way to provide minimal authorities headings for people without authorties
13:46 tumer     clicking on count can take us to biblios of those word probably
13:46 kados     in fact, it already works :-)
13:47 tumer     so it does excellent
13:47 kados     yup
13:48 kados     and it's committed already, so you can play with it :-)
13:48 kados     I don't have time to code today ... working on another project
13:48 kados     but I'm eager to get back to it :-)
13:48 tumer     great work and you say you didn't know programming?
13:48 kados     it's been a lot of fun to work on once I got the basics of Zebra down
13:48 kados     yea, no formal programming :-)
13:49 kados     I just picked it up along the way :-)
13:50 tumer     hear hear
13:50 tumer     and some keep learning without ever lraning
13:51 tumer     anyway since internet is back i better start downloading the new commits
13:52 tumer     bye all
13:52 kados     have fun :-)
13:52 kados     bye tumer
15:12 rach      howdy
15:28 thd       hello rach
15:31 thd       kados: I have an item that cannot be deleted because it could not have been created.  A phantom item.
17:54 thd       kados: are you any less busy now?
17:54 thd       kados: I found the origin of the bug I had been reporting
17:56 thd       kados: if you duplicate a field the duplicated record loses the a in 000/09.
17:57 thd       s/duplicated/reloaded/
02:10 btoumi    hi all
02:16 osmoze    hello
02:16 btoumi    hi osmoze
02:35 btoumi    :paul are u here?
02:37 paul      yep.
02:37 paul      salut btoumi
02:41 btoumi    :paul salut
03:13 thd       good morning paul
03:15 thd       paul: are you there?
03:15 paul      (on phone)
03:16 thd       paul: let me know when you are off phone, I have two simple questions
03:22 paul      thd : i'm back
03:23 thd       paul: maybe 3 questions
03:23 paul      I couldn't ask you if your trip to spain was nice, after the devWeek. So, feel free to answer this question too ;-)
03:24 thd       paul: first I committed my expanded MARC 21 bibliographic framework
03:24 paul      yes, I saw them, thx
03:25 thd       yes my trip to Spain was very good and there may be a possibility for Koha there, I am investigating
03:26 thd       paul: I did not use the verbose column naming insert convention but used the column sequence only convention
03:26 thd       paul: the same convention I had used for editing the framework
03:27 thd       paul: this is a little less reliable but would there be any problem in this case?
03:27 paul      I don't think so, except with mySQL 5.x
03:27 paul      but there already are many problems with mySQL 5, so ...
03:28 paul      mmm...
03:28 paul      no, sorry, i misread your message.
03:28 paul      there's no problem exporting without complete sql insert, except when there is a database change.
03:28 paul      but in 2.2.x there is none.
03:28 Comete    hello
03:28 paul      that may be a problem for 3.x
03:28 paul      hi Comete a
03:29 btoumi    hi comete
03:29 thd       paul: I could have substituted the more verbose form with a regex but I feared a mistake in my regex might do more harm
03:30 Comete    is there a way to keep the first enrolled date of a borrower AND the last one ?
03:30 thd       paul: 3.0 is the same so far and future revisions can always add columns
03:31 paul      right.
03:31 paul      Comete: not in koha 2, ask btoumi for koha 3
03:31 thd       paul: how would this be a problem for MySQL 5.X specifically?
03:32 Comete    btoumi: is there a way to keep the first enrolled date of a borrower AND the last one ? in koha 3
03:32 paul      I misread your question, so there is nont
03:32 paul      none
03:32 btoumi    :Comete Yes
03:32 Comete    youpi
03:32 Comete    :)
03:33 btoumi    ;=)
03:34 thd       paul: I have another SQL script for applying the MARC 21 default framework to an existing installation.  It is not a very clever script so it should not be run automatically.
03:34 paul      put it in misc, with a proper documentation.
03:34 paul      if it can be used, then it can be published. even if it is with a lot of care !
03:35 thd       paul: It works fine but it would be very rude to run it automatically on an unsuspecting user.
03:36 thd       paul: It has many comments for documentation
03:36 paul      to solve this problem I usually :
03:36 paul      - add a -c flag to "confirm that I want to run this script"
03:36 Comete    does anyone read my post on the wiki fr ? there are no comments at the moment...
03:37 paul      - just show help when the script is called without any parameter
03:37 Comete    i would like to know if these features already exist
03:37 thd       paul: can I do that for an SQL script?
03:37 paul      Comete: you should ask once again on infos@ mailing list ;-)
03:37 paul      (& i will answer wherever I find some time)
03:38 paul      mmm... no, sorry. If it's pure SQL, you can't
03:38 Comete    paul: ok thank you
03:39 thd       paul: It does have a very large warning with a big stop now menage in a comment about what it will do.
03:39 thd       s/menage/message
03:39 paul      that should be enough
03:41 thd       paul: perhaps your recent fix to the MARC record editor has prevented fields from being duplicated in the NPL templates?
03:41 paul      I can't test everything, sorry :\
03:41 thd       paul: I leave that for owen and kados to sort out :)
03:42 thd       paul: at least it no longer corrupts the MARC 21 records when the field is duplicated
03:43 thd       paul: I did notice that in the default template it duplicated the field content along with the field.  Is that a bug or a feature :) ?
03:43 paul      good question...
03:44 paul      some think this is a bug, other this is a feature
03:45 thd       paul: as long as the record is not corrupted the duplicated content can always be overwritten.
03:47 thd       paul: I discovered yesterday that the former problem I was having with MARC 21 records was that every time I duplicated a field leader position 9 would change from Unicode to MARC 8 and then MARC::XML would mange the record upon saving.
03:48 thd       paul: thanks for fixing that.
08:48 kyle_away  /nick kyle
10:25 thd       kados: are you any less busy today?
10:26 btoumi    by all
10:29 thd       owen: are you there?
10:29 owen      yes
10:29 thd       owen: did you see my newly reported bug?
10:30 owen      bug 1104?
10:31 thd       yes
10:32 thd       owen: I think this may be in consequence of what paul had done to fix other problems with the editor.
10:33 thd       owen: so the editor may work ok now for the intranet templates but something needs to be done for the NPL templates
10:34 thd       s/intranet/default/
10:34 owen      So the duplicate field function works in the default templates but not npl's?
10:34 thd       yes
10:36 thd       owen: please note an earlier bug where leader position 9 would change from an 'a' to blank on field duplication.  That resulted in record corruption after saving.
10:36 owen      Any idea of the cause of that?
10:37 thd       owen: do you mean the change in the leader position 9
10:37 thd       ?
10:37 owen      Yes
10:39 thd       owen: Maybe MARC::XML was not recognising the presence of the 'a' for Unicode and resetting it to blank for MARC 8.
10:39 thd       owen: the consequences would be bad for scrambling the subfields where there were more than two subfields in a field.
10:40 thd       owen: The scrambling was evident after saving.
10:41 thd       owen: that is the unreported bug referenced in bug # 1104
10:41 owen      Hi shedges!
10:41 shedges   hey owen
10:42 thd       owen: with paul's fix and certainly with no field duplication that bug is no longer manifesting.
10:44 thd       owen: without field duplication, proper records cannot be created in most instances.
10:49 thd       owen: are you still there?
10:50 owen      yeah, but I'm bouncing between a few different tasks
10:53 thd       owen: although it is much less important, It would seem very useful to have the preference system read the directories and show the available CSS options as it does with the available template options instead of forcing the user to hunt for them.
10:53 owen      I agree.  kados and I have talked about it, but haven't had time to make it happen
10:54 thd       owen: what is kados doing now? This editor bug is very serious.
10:57 thd       owen: he does now have customers using the editor, unless they have adopted something else in the face of multiple bugs.
10:58 thd       tumer: are you there?
10:58 tumer     hi thd
10:58 owen      thd: I am hardly ever in direct contact with kados. We communicate here.
10:58 owen      So I don't know where he is either
10:59 thd       owen: I know kados is very busy, I suspect5t with whatever he was busy with since midday yesterday.
10:59 tumer     thd & owen: i use npl templates with a different fix
10:59 thd       tumer: really do you have your own fix for the record editor?
11:00 tumer     before pauls commits i changed the java in npl templatws and it seems to work
11:00 tumer     just comment everything regarding trigger and it seems to work foe me
11:01 thd       tumer: maybe you could even commit those changes
11:01 tumer     i did not commit them as i was still testing them but pauls commits came so i stopped
11:02 tumer     i cannot reproduce the bug you are talking about though
11:03 tumer     my problem was that i could not repaet a field more than once, now i can
11:03 thd       tumer: paul fixed some problems but now repeatable fields cannot be added for the NPL templates only.
11:03 thd       tumer: I cannot repeat a field any times now with the NPL templates
11:04 thd       tumer: this is now bug # 1104
11:04 tumer     i dont know what paul has fixed but i did not implement it as i did  not have a bug
11:05 thd       tumer: are you running a forked bug free Koha or do you not use the record editor vigorously enough to notice the bugs?
11:05 tumer     probably rather than doing an official commit i'll pass the changes to owen so he can test them
11:06 thd       tumer: whatever solves the problem quickly.
11:07 tumer     we use the editor vigorously but a stable version of koha
11:07 thd       tumer: paul is preparing to issue a release while the NPL templates are not working for the record editor now.
11:08 tumer     i'll have a quick look
11:08 thd       tumer: you miss out on all the excitement by using a stable version.
11:09 tumer     stabilised tumers version
11:12 owen      When I look at the fresh-from-cvs copy of addbiblio.pl, I don't see any tabs.
11:13 thd       owen: you mean tabs for groups of fields?
11:13 owen      Yeah
11:14 tumer     thd :just committed the fixed template
11:14 tumer     test it whether it works
11:14 thd       owen: well you only have whatever tabs your framework defines
11:14 owen      My framework hasn't changed, as far as I know.
11:15 thd       owen: do you mean that all fields appear in one long form at the same time?
11:15 owen      The source shows all the right form fields for all tags, but the tabs don't appear
11:15 owen      thd: should they?
11:16 tumer     owen: paul has put them in a tabloop now i did not test it yet though
11:17 thd       owen: one long form had not been historic behaviour but I had thought that it might be faster for me to use.  Yet I never suggested it to anyone.
11:17 owen      I thought he was just referring to how the script passed the data to the templates...
11:17 tumer     he also changed the default.tmpl it has to read a loop now (i think)
11:19 owen      I see the tabs in the default template, but they don't work :)
11:19 thd       tumer: does your record editor use one long form or are tabs needed for navigating to different field groups?
11:19 tumer     tabs are there
11:19 tumer     i did not update to pauls biblio.pm and addbiblio.pl
11:20 thd       tumer: does your record editor use one long form with all fields appearing simultaneously with the tabs as an additional navigation feature.
11:20 thd       ?
11:21 tumer     editor has tabs, field appear acoording to tabs
11:22 thd       owen: so tumer did not knowingly introduce such an innovation in your checkout
11:23 thd       owen: my problem with the tabs is that there is poor or no keyboard only navigation to the tabs.
11:24 owen      I'm not fond of the tabs myself. When I first designed the npl templates I took them out. Then the catalogers asked for them back. Now they're asking for them to go away again :)
11:24 thd       owen: every time I need to touch the mouse keys I am doing something much slower than necessary.
11:25 thd       owen: I think the tabs are fine if they had a good keyboard shortcut.
11:25 tumer     thd: tabs and field duplication are 2 different issues. Paul did a commit that changed both features. I did not use it. All i am
11:26 thd       owen: I did not think you had any cataloguers using the record editor for anything other than updating holdings.
11:26 tumer     saying with old NPL templates my fix works for duplication for me
11:27 thd       tumer: I am aware that they are different.  Tabs are a relatively unimportant user interface issue compare to adding repeated fields.
11:27 thd       s/compare/compared/
11:27 tumer     sure
11:30 thd       tumer: I want to send you a URL without having the whole world bombard my poor machine without enough memory or bandwidth, etc. to accommodate them.
11:30 tumer     tgarip@neu.edu.tr
11:30 thd       tumer: do private channel IRC messages not work on your IRC client?
11:31 tumer     should do i think never used it
11:52 thd       tumer: is there something frustrating about asynchronous mode?
11:52 tumer     frustating for you on a dial up
11:53 tumer     to update your Dbian i mean
11:53 thd       tumer: oh yes, I live in ancient building with ancient wiring.
11:54 thd       tumer: I update very infrequently for that reason.
11:54 tumer     thd have you heard of kados today
11:54 tumer     my utf8 problem still persists with this new XML as well
11:54 thd       tumer: kados seems to have been completely unreachable since you communication with him yesterday,
11:55 tumer     i believe he is deep in ZEBRA
11:55 thd       tumer: To what UTF-8 problem are you referring?
11:56 tumer     with this new MARC-XML my characters (template only) get scrumbled
11:56 tumer     i get wid-character-in print warnings from perl
11:56 tumer     s/wid/wide
11:57 thd       tumer: That error message can be avoided by informing Perl that you will be using wide characters
11:58 tumer     yes but on screen they are scrumbled as well?
11:59 thd       tumer: unless they are really scrambled that is a font problem in the CSS for which I fell asleep trying to prepare commits a couple of months ago.