Time  Nick      Message
11:54 thd       kados: are you back?
11:43 thd       goodbye ToinS
11:43 ToinS     bye all !!!!
11:40 thd       owen: does WorldCat FirstSearch have a checkbox labelled browse?
11:38 owen      ...but I don't know what his plans are for our version.
11:38 owen      That's the way it worked in the WorldCat search Joshua showed me
11:37 thd       owen: yes, Is this actually meant to return a brief identifier for selecting an actual term to use as the '...' search does in 2.2 now?
11:35 owen      Were you able to try the browse search on zoomopac.liblime.com?
11:34 thd       own: yes that was my point so perhaps the name should be modified.
11:34 owen      I understand a browse search as one that will let me see my search term in the context of a list of nearby search results
11:34 owen      I'm still waiting for kados to sell me on the idea. A browse search as I understand it is different from the kind of search he's offering with zebra
11:33 thd       owen: so if kados is gone for 10 minutes, tell me what advantage this 'browse' feature might have?
11:30 kados     yea that's it :-)
11:30 kados     ahh
11:30 owen      Not zoom pac
11:29 owen      zoom opac
11:29 owen      http://zoomopac.liblime.com
11:29 kados     maybe your DNS is not working
11:29 kados     strange
11:29 kados     hehe
11:29 thd       kados: I have http://zoompac.liblime.com/ copied from my URL textbox.  How is it misspelt?
11:28 owen      thd: I've been using that zoomopac link for several days now
11:27 kados     thd: probably wednesday at 20:00 GMT
11:27 thd       kados: when is the next meeting?
11:26 thd       good evening paul_away
11:26 kados     thd: you sure it's not misspelled in your browser window?
11:26 thd       kados: maybe it has not propagated fully
11:26 paul_away (do we have a meeting on monday ?)
11:26 paul      ok guys, bye bye, see you on monday !
11:25 kados     :-)
11:25 kados     yea
11:25 thd       kados: I assume it is also working for owen?
11:24 kados     thd: it should work, working for me
11:24 kados     thd: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/
11:24 kados     hmmm
11:24 thd       kados: I have a could not be found error from zoompac.liblime.com
11:22 kados     thd: and click on the checkbox for 'browse'
11:22 kados     thd: go to the advanced search
11:22 kados     'scan index' or something
11:22 kados     we should probably call it scanning
11:21 kados     it's actually 'scanning'
11:21 kados     yea, it's not real browsing
11:21 kados     thd: zoomopac.liblime.com
11:21 thd       ?
11:21 thd       kados: what is the URL
11:21 thd       browsing is not real browsing if you start by searching but maybe I am also looking at the wrong URL
11:21 kados     owen: then from the 'indexed in' dropdown select 'title phrase'
11:20 kados     owen: click on the icon next to each field in the advanced search
11:20 kados     thd: did you see the new browse feature?
11:20 owen      how did you do the title phrase search on worldcat?
11:20 kados     thd: I've got some time to talk today when you're ready :-)
11:20 thd       yes
11:20 kados     hey thd
11:20 thd       bye osmoze
11:20 kados     bye osmoze
11:19 kados     or ... at least as a separate form on the power search
11:19 osmoze    bye all
11:19 kados     if it's ok with you, I'd like to implement it as another tab
11:18 kados     and see words/terms nearby
11:18 kados     it's a way to validate whether a given term or phrase exists in the database
11:18 kados     being able to scan an index is, I'm guessing, an advanced feature that mainly librarians and researches would find useful
11:13 kados     it is more useful
11:13 kados     but if you do a 'title phrase'
11:13 kados     zebra even
11:13 kados     it works the same way as zebr
11:13 kados     for 'the handmaid'
11:13 kados     ok ... so if you do a keyword index browse
11:12 kados     right
11:12 kados     I wonder if the worldcat ones are user friendly
11:02 owen      The "keyword (count)" results examples seem non very user-friendly to me
11:02 owen      Yes...but I'm not sure that can be turned into a usable search given the examples you've shown me
11:00 kados     does that make sense?
10:59 kados     all 'scan' does, is return values from the index
10:58 kados     it has one for 'words' one for 'phrases' one for 'numbers' one for 'URLs'
10:58 kados     zebra has indexes that it queries when it's searching
10:58 kados     so ...
10:58 kados     ok ... back to single-tasking
10:57 kados     didn't mean to sounds snippy
10:57 kados     sorry, I'm multitasking
10:57 kados     hehe
10:56 owen      I'm confused by your telling me not to be confused :)
10:55 kados     owen: don't confuse 'indexes' with 'bib1 USE search points'
10:55 paul      )
10:55 paul      passing a "this" on a <a> means passing the href, and impossible to reach the parent, while passing this.parentNode works as expected
10:54 kados     woot
10:54 paul      (even if the DOM is sometimes strange... :
10:54 paul      cloneTag & authority search problem solved !
10:54 paul      huray for ToinS !
10:54 owen      keyword browse for 'The Handmai'd Tale' ?
10:53 kados     etc.
10:53 kados     same with the number index
10:52 kados     it would pull from the 'phrase' index
10:52 kados     if we did a phrase browse
10:52 kados     it'll only find things with 'the*"
10:52 kados     since by default, it's doing a browse of the 'word' indexes
10:51 kados     'The Handmaid's Tale"
10:51 kados     try:
10:51 kados     let me illustrate it
10:51 kados     this browse is specifically for the indexes in Zebra
10:50 kados     so it will work exactly as it does for OU
10:50 kados     SMFPL is sponsoring that for Koha
10:50 kados     yea ...
10:49 kados     but really are quite different
10:49 owen      All I can tell you is how I think it should work :)
10:49 kados     they seem similar
10:49 kados     those are authorites records
10:49 kados     that's not browsing the index
10:48 owen      They do browse by default
10:48 owen      Actually, take a look at O.U.'s library search, and try an author or title search.
10:46 kados     http://labs.liblime.com/
10:46 kados     the livesearch is demoed here:
10:45 kados     so you get a dropdown box with the index
10:45 kados     what if all it does, is turn on the 'livesearch'
10:45 kados     hey ... I just had an idea
10:44 kados     when you click on the term
10:44 kados     then, depending on which index you selected, it'll do a keyword search on that index
10:44 kados     and they let you select an index
10:43 kados     worldcat has a completely separate search tab for it
10:43 kados     how does spydus do it?
10:43 kados     do you like the way worldcat handles it?
10:42 owen      Yeah, I think so
10:42 kados     owen: so do you have a sec to talk about how browse should work?
10:40 kados     can't just keep adding ands and testing if it's valid :-)
10:40 kados     so you have to submit the query sometime :-)
10:40 kados     and adding more will not make it valid CQL
10:40 owen      right
10:40 kados     because there might already be ands
10:40 kados     that gets really complicated
10:40 kados     well ...
10:39 owen      I would suggest 'and's instead of quotes I think.
10:39 kados     I need users to tell me how good of a job it does
10:39 kados     owen: I just basically test if it's valid, and if not, I pass it on enclosed in quotes
10:38 kados     owen: I've got the cql query working even with invalid CQL
10:37 owen      I was just about to ask :)
10:37 kados     owen: doesn't distinguish between indexes yet either
10:37 kados     owen: well ... not fully yet ... but first time it actually returned results :-)
10:37 kados     owen: browse working
10:25 btoumi    bye
10:23 paul      bye btoumi
10:19 btoumi    :osmoze de meme
10:18 osmoze    bon week end btoumi
10:14 btoumi    bye all good week end
10:12 kados     (if my memory serves me correctly, I haven't looked at the code in a while)
10:11 kados     and it works exactly as you want :-)
10:11 kados     delete the value from the original
10:11 kados     so all that's left is:
10:11 kados     200$aSome Author $aSome Author
10:11 kados     you'll get:
10:11 kados     and you click on '+'
10:11 kados     200$aSome Author
10:11 kados     so if you type:
10:11 kados     currently, it will insert the value too
10:10 kados     well ...
10:10 kados     yea
10:10 paul      maybe because there is no "InsertAfter" and it has to be emulated & taht don't work ?
10:10 kados     it has to do with how the '+' follows the subfield I believe
10:10 kados     paul: let me try to remember
10:10 kados     paul: there is a reason
10:09 paul      ppl usually enter most important values 1st, to a clone would be better AFTER imho
10:09 paul      kados : is there a reason why cloneSubfield insert a subfield BEFORE the existing one ?
10:08 johnb     We would be glad to help out in anyway
10:05 johnb     CCfls is always looking for funding through grants.
10:05 johnb     5.  The important thing to remember about grants is that the grants are usually given to organizations that have a proven track record not necessarily the best written grant,
10:04 kados     johnb: you'd have my blessing :-)
10:04 kados     johnb: would CCFLS like to be the recipient?
10:04 kados     good points johnb
10:03 johnb     4. There are individuals who can help write grants, or you can go to an organization with a proven track record
10:02 johnb     3.  Administrating grants is usually not a full time position unless the grant is very large (7 figures plus)
10:01 johnb     2.  The organization that receives the grant usually takes a percentage of the total grant as an administrative fee usually 5 to 10 percent
10:00 johnb     1.  Most libraries that are set up outside of government control our non-profit and our recognized by the IRS as 501c3's
09:59 johnb     Been away from my desk, just saw the conversation about Mellon.  A few thoughts clarifications:
09:58 owen      He's working tomorrow, but I don't know if he'll have time for it
09:58 owen      Oh, never mind. He's off on Monday and Tuesday.
09:58 kados     definitely
09:57 owen      I thought we might have Ken take a crack at it even before that. What do you think?
09:57 kados     as a 'beta'
09:56 kados     I think we could probably announce it to NPL staff on Monday
09:56 kados     and I wrote ID about the query validation question
09:56 kados     I can see expanding how this works in the future, but for right now, I'd just like to see it work period :-)
09:53 kados     yea
09:53 owen      Oh, I see... just have the check box on the first one and they can chage the drop-down if they want to browse by something else.  That makes sense
09:52 kados     i think
09:52 kados     owen: and no need to have more than one
09:52 kados     owen: can you change the 'button' for browse to a 'checkbox'?
09:44 pierrick  http://le-gall.net/pierrick/photos/index.php?/category/310
09:43 paul      hehe... pierrick is publishing pictures of the kohaCon on le-gall.net
09:41 paul      yep
09:41 owen      Oh, in addbiblio.tmpl
09:40 paul      i changes nothing at all.
09:40 paul      almost everything on the same line, with loops & if & unless deeply nested
09:39 paul      the indenting owen, just the identing
09:37 kados     but really, we're happy to contribute to the foundation, we can deduct it, and it's going to help foster the project as a whole
09:36 owen      Sure, absolutely.
09:36 kados     as a group
09:36 kados     and they need a non-profit to represent them
09:35 kados     say a bunch of libraries in Ohio want a given feature
09:35 kados     well ... there's another way the org can collect money
09:35 kados     right
09:35 owen      When I said we'd need involvement from everyone I was just thinking in terms of: How do make the foundation happen without the financial burden being on Liblime
09:34 kados     owen: once the process gets started, it will be easy to maintain I think
09:33 kados     owen: then the organization can hire a grant writer to write a given grant
09:33 kados     owen: once it's formed, LibLime will make a contribution (probably)
09:33 kados     owen: what we're doing ... is forming the organization
09:32 owen      Who's doing that writing?
09:31 owen      But who is "the foundation" ?
09:31 paul      wow... kados reads mails very very quickly !!!
09:31 kados     owen: so the foundation can parse those requests, and write them in software development terms
09:31 kados     owen: as you well know, requests by Koha users don't really come in 'specification' format
09:30 kados     owen: basically
09:30 kados     paul++ on the one tab!
09:30 owen      So the foundation receives the grant, and then parcels out money based on requests by Koha users?
09:29 kados     cool
09:29 paul      ENSMP has many ideas for OPAC & wanted to fund them this year, so we could ask pascale.
09:29 kados     maybe even project management eventually
09:29 kados     it can take on other roles
09:29 kados     then, as the foundation begins to establish itself
09:29 kados     I think it'll work quite well
09:29 kados     and then asking for koha companies to submit bids to do the work
09:28 kados     if we have some folks who are writing grants and specs for features
09:28 kados     IMO, the foundation will basically just act as a funnel
09:28 kados     well ...
09:22 owen      We'll need involvement from everyone in order to make the grant really effective
09:21 owen      The tough job, however, will be getting everyone's participation in the Foundation
09:17 kados     this is why we need the non-profit
09:16 kados     yea
09:16 owen      In fact, it's the post-grant-writing part that I'd be most concerned about WRT NPL's involvement
09:16 kados     brooke might not understand that there is no official organization that is 'koha'
09:16 kados     right
09:15 owen      I can write something today expressing my point of view. Essentially: I like the foundation idea, and I don't think NPL has the resources to manage the grant
09:14 kados     so either ENSMP or Owen :-)
09:13 kados     I think it's important for an employee of a non-profit to asnwer brooke
09:13 kados     cool
09:13 owen      I'd take the job if that was our only option
09:13 paul      otherwise, i'm sure that ENSMP will be happy to spend time on this, if it is possible to have an NPO from outside of US
09:12 owen      I'd be the only candidate, and I don't know the first thing about grant-writing (and don't really have the time for it)
09:12 paul      isn't owen a staff member :-D
09:11 kados     though I'm not sure you've got a staff member who could devote time to it
09:11 kados     if so, maybe NPL could be the recipient
09:11 kados     I'm not sure a library fits the bill there, but it might
09:11 kados     which includes "evidence of suitable classification by the Internal Revenue Service"
09:11 kados     http://www.mellon.org/MellonGeneral.htm
09:11 kados     here are the criteria for the organization:
09:10 kados     will recognize not-for-profit organizations that are making substantial contributions of their own resources toward the development of open source software and the fostering of collaborative communities to sustain open source development.
09:10 kados     they include:
09:10 kados     here are the rules:
09:10 owen      I don't know about the Mellon rules, but I agree with your point of view that it would be better for a Foundation to manage the grant than a single company
09:08 kados     but I could use another set of eyes to confirm my understanding
09:08 owen      I hadn't seen that one yet.
09:08 kados     and I'm not sure she understands how the mellon works ...
09:07 kados     Brooke just responded to my post this morning
09:07 owen      Not closely, but yes
09:07 kados     owen: I'm wondering if you've been following the Mellon thread on koha list
09:06 owen      Yes
09:06 kados     owen: got a sec?
08:46 paul      thx
08:45 owen      intranet.css, colors.css, and maybe marc-editor.css I'm not sure if that last one is in use
08:42 paul      where are the styles defined in npl theme ?
08:41 paul      yes, it has to be cleaned, you're right...
08:40 paul      but that are important for cloning fields & subfields
08:40 paul      I think there is a minor diff in <div>s, that I missed
08:40 paul      ok, it works. I just have to tweak my css.
08:36 paul      but I still can't understand why MARC editor works fine with NPL & not with default templates...
08:36 paul      (hello owen)
08:36 paul      I did it ;-)
08:36 paul      kados / owen : don't bother to port default changes I made to handle mandatory fields/subfields to npl
08:11 kados     but the whole system :-)
08:11 kados     not the marc editor
08:11 kados     I noticed yesterday that the liblime demo is badly broken :-)
08:11 paul      (npl one)
08:11 paul      a link to a working marc editor pls ?
08:11 kados     yes
08:10 paul      do you use authorities with npl marc editor ?
08:10 kados     maybe the problem :-)
08:10 kados     hehe
08:10 paul      mmm... strange, it's nowhere.
08:10 kados     grep openAuth includes/
08:09 kados     I think it's in a seprate js file
08:09 kados     you'd have to ask owen
08:09 paul      where is your openAuth function hidden ?
08:09 kados     could be ...
08:09 paul      but I get a bug with authorities popup
08:09 kados     but I do know that thd has done extensive testing on the npl version
08:09 paul      i'm copying npl templates to default.
08:09 paul      I know.
08:09 paul      because I even don't get the values in the CGI
08:08 paul      it's a html problem.
08:08 kados     sure
08:08 paul      it's not a html2marc problem
08:08 paul      about clonetag&subfield problem
08:08 kados     paul: yep
08:04 paul      kados around ?
06:55 Strait    good night
06:50 chris     night all
06:45 chris     yep
06:38 btoumi    hi strait
06:37 btoumi    hi chris
06:27 chris     cool thanks strait
06:27 Strait    hello
06:27 Strait    i'll look into it next week
06:27 chris     hiya bruno
06:27 btoumi    hi all
06:27 chris     right
06:27 Strait    and set up issuing rules and all that
06:26 Strait    but i'll have to create users and branches to koha
06:26 chris     11.26pm friday here
06:26 Strait    14.26 here ;)
06:26 chris     its a bit late in the night for my brain to work good tonight :)
06:25 chris     so ill take a look then too
06:25 chris     we have to do some work on the installer over the next few days
06:25 chris     cool
06:25 Strait    it doesn't look too difficult
06:24 Strait    i'm not a perl expert, but i could give it a go
06:24 chris     yep, just needs someone to do it :-)
06:24 Strait    yep
06:24 chris     updatedatabase i mean
06:23 Strait    should be fairly easy to do also :)
06:23 chris     yeah, then run the upgrade script
06:23 Strait    that would only do mysql -u $user koha < koha.mysql -p
06:22 chris     yep, that could be done
06:21 Strait    there could be an option "use already created database user... blah... blah... blah... in the installer"
06:20 Strait    i had to change the installer a bit
06:20 chris     sweet
06:20 Strait    as a regular user without root access to mysql
06:19 Strait    yep
06:19 chris     ohhh you got it all installed? well done
06:19 Strait    wasn't too easy though
06:18 Strait    finally
06:18 Strait    yippee! it works :)
06:03 chris     i think the answer is no
06:03 chris     can i stay up till 3.30am to watch the football
06:02 chris     hmmm
02:56 btoumi    cav bien
02:56 ToinS     et toi ?
02:56 ToinS     très bien !
02:56 btoumi    ?
02:56 btoumi    toins:ca va bien
02:55 ToinS     salut btoumi
02:55 btoumi    hi toins
02:33 btoumi    non mais faut ce preparer lol
02:18 paul      à cette heure ?
02:18 paul      un match ? de quoi ?
02:17 btoumi    lol
02:17 btoumi    bon ca va alors je m'en vais si on est trop en plus y a un match
02:08 paul      et c'est à nouveau l'envahissement du canal par les français...
02:08 btoumi    hi all
02:08 pierrick  hi paul
02:07 paul      hi pierrick
02:03 dewey     privet, alaurin
02:03 alaurin   hi
02:02 paul      hello alaurin
19:24 mason
16:51 thd       good night kados
16:48 thd       kados: Of course Perl has MAB::Encode or whatever it is called
16:47 thd       kados: just look at it again.  I discovered PHP ISO 2709 class written in French that provided that simple conversion
16:46 thd       s/5226/5426/
16:46 kados     thd: ping me tomorrow about it, I am interested :-)
16:45 thd       kados: my z39.50 client does ISO-5226 to UTF-8 conversion
16:45 kados     so I'm gonna head out for a drink and turn in early
16:45 kados     only got about two hours last night
16:45 chris     :)
16:45 kados     anyway ... I'm far too tired to discuss MARC :-)
16:45 kados     hehe
16:44 kados     ie, there's no way to properly store a non-MARC8 non-UTF8 encoded UNINMARC record
16:44 thd       kados: they are not incompatible but that is a secret
16:44 chris     but i might be missing something
16:44 chris     i dont see the point
16:44 kados     and encodings
16:44 kados     like subjects
16:44 kados     but some things are incompatible
16:44 kados     that might work
16:43 thd       kados: what I mean is that Koha could have a multiple MARC frameworks for multiple MARC flavours and store them all at the same time with conversions between them.
16:43 kados     it just means we need some UNIMARC person to become an expert on how to index zebra based on unimarc settings
16:43 kados     thd: no reason we can't be multi-MARC still
16:42 kados     thd: not necessarily
16:42 thd       koha should be multi-MARC but that would break too many things for 3.0
16:42 chris     sorry system prefs
16:42 chris     we are getting quite a few templates
16:42 kados     yea
16:42 chris     that people chose from when they install, to give them a basis, and then tweak from there
16:41 chris     and sets of system preferences
16:41 thd       bad bad bad
16:41 kados     thd: have you tried the latest instantiation of the zoomopac?
16:41 chris     basically i think what we will end up having is sets of templates
16:41 kados     hey thd
16:41 thd       yes
16:41 kados     he seems to have a handle on both
16:41 kados     though maybe we could get thd to map between the two
16:40 kados     someone with unimarc clients will have to become a zebra expert :-)
16:40 chris     yep
16:40 kados     as unimarc's fields are in different places
16:40 chris     right
16:40 kados     because the attributes for, say, language search, will be different in a unimarc setup
16:39 kados     we almost need a UNIMARC template
16:39 chris     run the installer and work out what we can automate and what we have left to do manually
16:39 chris     but once things are working we can do a tar ball
16:39 kados     especially for MARC21 vs UNIMARC
16:39 kados     I can't really see a way around doing configuration manually
16:39 kados     yea ... on that ...
16:39 chris     we'll have to do some work on the installer
16:38 chris     sweet
16:38 kados     once I verify it's working, we can release 2.3.0
16:38 chris     right, thats the next tricky bit
16:38 kados     deletes too
16:38 kados     then I need to tackle the adds/edits in zebra
16:38 kados     I'm hoping to work a bit more on it this weekend
16:38 kados     the search is really getting there
16:34 chris     glad to hear it :-)
16:31 kados     so staying up till 5am paid off :-)
16:31 kados     they were very impressed with the search
16:31 chris     all good
16:31 kados     we should sign with them within a couple weeks if the contract negitiation goes smoothly :-)
16:31 chris     excellent
16:30 kados     very well
15:52 chris     morning