Time Nick Message 11:54 thd kados: are you back? 11:43 thd goodbye ToinS 11:43 ToinS bye all !!!! 11:40 thd owen: does WorldCat FirstSearch have a checkbox labelled browse? 11:38 owen ...but I don't know what his plans are for our version. 11:38 owen That's the way it worked in the WorldCat search Joshua showed me 11:37 thd owen: yes, Is this actually meant to return a brief identifier for selecting an actual term to use as the '...' search does in 2.2 now? 11:35 owen Were you able to try the browse search on zoomopac.liblime.com? 11:34 thd own: yes that was my point so perhaps the name should be modified. 11:34 owen I understand a browse search as one that will let me see my search term in the context of a list of nearby search results 11:34 owen I'm still waiting for kados to sell me on the idea. A browse search as I understand it is different from the kind of search he's offering with zebra 11:33 thd owen: so if kados is gone for 10 minutes, tell me what advantage this 'browse' feature might have? 11:30 kados yea that's it :-) 11:30 kados ahh 11:30 owen Not zoom pac 11:29 owen zoom opac 11:29 owen http://zoomopac.liblime.com 11:29 kados maybe your DNS is not working 11:29 kados strange 11:29 kados hehe 11:29 thd kados: I have http://zoompac.liblime.com/ copied from my URL textbox. How is it misspelt? 11:28 owen thd: I've been using that zoomopac link for several days now 11:27 kados thd: probably wednesday at 20:00 GMT 11:27 thd kados: when is the next meeting? 11:26 thd good evening paul_away 11:26 kados thd: you sure it's not misspelled in your browser window? 11:26 thd kados: maybe it has not propagated fully 11:26 paul_away (do we have a meeting on monday ?) 11:26 paul ok guys, bye bye, see you on monday ! 11:25 kados :-) 11:25 kados yea 11:25 thd kados: I assume it is also working for owen? 11:24 kados thd: it should work, working for me 11:24 kados thd: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/ 11:24 kados hmmm 11:24 thd kados: I have a could not be found error from zoompac.liblime.com 11:22 kados thd: and click on the checkbox for 'browse' 11:22 kados thd: go to the advanced search 11:22 kados 'scan index' or something 11:22 kados we should probably call it scanning 11:21 kados it's actually 'scanning' 11:21 kados yea, it's not real browsing 11:21 kados thd: zoomopac.liblime.com 11:21 thd ? 11:21 thd kados: what is the URL 11:21 thd browsing is not real browsing if you start by searching but maybe I am also looking at the wrong URL 11:21 kados owen: then from the 'indexed in' dropdown select 'title phrase' 11:20 kados owen: click on the icon next to each field in the advanced search 11:20 kados thd: did you see the new browse feature? 11:20 owen how did you do the title phrase search on worldcat? 11:20 kados thd: I've got some time to talk today when you're ready :-) 11:20 thd yes 11:20 kados hey thd 11:20 thd bye osmoze 11:20 kados bye osmoze 11:19 kados or ... at least as a separate form on the power search 11:19 osmoze bye all 11:19 kados if it's ok with you, I'd like to implement it as another tab 11:18 kados and see words/terms nearby 11:18 kados it's a way to validate whether a given term or phrase exists in the database 11:18 kados being able to scan an index is, I'm guessing, an advanced feature that mainly librarians and researches would find useful 11:13 kados it is more useful 11:13 kados but if you do a 'title phrase' 11:13 kados zebra even 11:13 kados it works the same way as zebr 11:13 kados for 'the handmaid' 11:13 kados ok ... so if you do a keyword index browse 11:12 kados right 11:12 kados I wonder if the worldcat ones are user friendly 11:02 owen The "keyword (count)" results examples seem non very user-friendly to me 11:02 owen Yes...but I'm not sure that can be turned into a usable search given the examples you've shown me 11:00 kados does that make sense? 10:59 kados all 'scan' does, is return values from the index 10:58 kados it has one for 'words' one for 'phrases' one for 'numbers' one for 'URLs' 10:58 kados zebra has indexes that it queries when it's searching 10:58 kados so ... 10:58 kados ok ... back to single-tasking 10:57 kados didn't mean to sounds snippy 10:57 kados sorry, I'm multitasking 10:57 kados hehe 10:56 owen I'm confused by your telling me not to be confused :) 10:55 kados owen: don't confuse 'indexes' with 'bib1 USE search points' 10:55 paul ) 10:55 paul passing a "this" on a <a> means passing the href, and impossible to reach the parent, while passing this.parentNode works as expected 10:54 kados woot 10:54 paul (even if the DOM is sometimes strange... : 10:54 paul cloneTag & authority search problem solved ! 10:54 paul huray for ToinS ! 10:54 owen keyword browse for 'The Handmai'd Tale' ? 10:53 kados etc. 10:53 kados same with the number index 10:52 kados it would pull from the 'phrase' index 10:52 kados if we did a phrase browse 10:52 kados it'll only find things with 'the*" 10:52 kados since by default, it's doing a browse of the 'word' indexes 10:51 kados 'The Handmaid's Tale" 10:51 kados try: 10:51 kados let me illustrate it 10:51 kados this browse is specifically for the indexes in Zebra 10:50 kados so it will work exactly as it does for OU 10:50 kados SMFPL is sponsoring that for Koha 10:50 kados yea ... 10:49 kados but really are quite different 10:49 owen All I can tell you is how I think it should work :) 10:49 kados they seem similar 10:49 kados those are authorites records 10:49 kados that's not browsing the index 10:48 owen They do browse by default 10:48 owen Actually, take a look at O.U.'s library search, and try an author or title search. 10:46 kados http://labs.liblime.com/ 10:46 kados the livesearch is demoed here: 10:45 kados so you get a dropdown box with the index 10:45 kados what if all it does, is turn on the 'livesearch' 10:45 kados hey ... I just had an idea 10:44 kados when you click on the term 10:44 kados then, depending on which index you selected, it'll do a keyword search on that index 10:44 kados and they let you select an index 10:43 kados worldcat has a completely separate search tab for it 10:43 kados how does spydus do it? 10:43 kados do you like the way worldcat handles it? 10:42 owen Yeah, I think so 10:42 kados owen: so do you have a sec to talk about how browse should work? 10:40 kados can't just keep adding ands and testing if it's valid :-) 10:40 kados so you have to submit the query sometime :-) 10:40 kados and adding more will not make it valid CQL 10:40 owen right 10:40 kados because there might already be ands 10:40 kados that gets really complicated 10:40 kados well ... 10:39 owen I would suggest 'and's instead of quotes I think. 10:39 kados I need users to tell me how good of a job it does 10:39 kados owen: I just basically test if it's valid, and if not, I pass it on enclosed in quotes 10:38 kados owen: I've got the cql query working even with invalid CQL 10:37 owen I was just about to ask :) 10:37 kados owen: doesn't distinguish between indexes yet either 10:37 kados owen: well ... not fully yet ... but first time it actually returned results :-) 10:37 kados owen: browse working 10:25 btoumi bye 10:23 paul bye btoumi 10:19 btoumi :osmoze de meme 10:18 osmoze bon week end btoumi 10:14 btoumi bye all good week end 10:12 kados (if my memory serves me correctly, I haven't looked at the code in a while) 10:11 kados and it works exactly as you want :-) 10:11 kados delete the value from the original 10:11 kados so all that's left is: 10:11 kados 200$aSome Author $aSome Author 10:11 kados you'll get: 10:11 kados and you click on '+' 10:11 kados 200$aSome Author 10:11 kados so if you type: 10:11 kados currently, it will insert the value too 10:10 kados well ... 10:10 kados yea 10:10 paul maybe because there is no "InsertAfter" and it has to be emulated & taht don't work ? 10:10 kados it has to do with how the '+' follows the subfield I believe 10:10 kados paul: let me try to remember 10:10 kados paul: there is a reason 10:09 paul ppl usually enter most important values 1st, to a clone would be better AFTER imho 10:09 paul kados : is there a reason why cloneSubfield insert a subfield BEFORE the existing one ? 10:08 johnb We would be glad to help out in anyway 10:05 johnb CCfls is always looking for funding through grants. 10:05 johnb 5. The important thing to remember about grants is that the grants are usually given to organizations that have a proven track record not necessarily the best written grant, 10:04 kados johnb: you'd have my blessing :-) 10:04 kados johnb: would CCFLS like to be the recipient? 10:04 kados good points johnb 10:03 johnb 4. There are individuals who can help write grants, or you can go to an organization with a proven track record 10:02 johnb 3. Administrating grants is usually not a full time position unless the grant is very large (7 figures plus) 10:01 johnb 2. The organization that receives the grant usually takes a percentage of the total grant as an administrative fee usually 5 to 10 percent 10:00 johnb 1. Most libraries that are set up outside of government control our non-profit and our recognized by the IRS as 501c3's 09:59 johnb Been away from my desk, just saw the conversation about Mellon. A few thoughts clarifications: 09:58 owen He's working tomorrow, but I don't know if he'll have time for it 09:58 owen Oh, never mind. He's off on Monday and Tuesday. 09:58 kados definitely 09:57 owen I thought we might have Ken take a crack at it even before that. What do you think? 09:57 kados as a 'beta' 09:56 kados I think we could probably announce it to NPL staff on Monday 09:56 kados and I wrote ID about the query validation question 09:56 kados I can see expanding how this works in the future, but for right now, I'd just like to see it work period :-) 09:53 kados yea 09:53 owen Oh, I see... just have the check box on the first one and they can chage the drop-down if they want to browse by something else. That makes sense 09:52 kados i think 09:52 kados owen: and no need to have more than one 09:52 kados owen: can you change the 'button' for browse to a 'checkbox'? 09:44 pierrick http://le-gall.net/pierrick/photos/index.php?/category/310 09:43 paul hehe... pierrick is publishing pictures of the kohaCon on le-gall.net 09:41 paul yep 09:41 owen Oh, in addbiblio.tmpl 09:40 paul i changes nothing at all. 09:40 paul almost everything on the same line, with loops & if & unless deeply nested 09:39 paul the indenting owen, just the identing 09:37 kados but really, we're happy to contribute to the foundation, we can deduct it, and it's going to help foster the project as a whole 09:36 owen Sure, absolutely. 09:36 kados as a group 09:36 kados and they need a non-profit to represent them 09:35 kados say a bunch of libraries in Ohio want a given feature 09:35 kados well ... there's another way the org can collect money 09:35 kados right 09:35 owen When I said we'd need involvement from everyone I was just thinking in terms of: How do make the foundation happen without the financial burden being on Liblime 09:34 kados owen: once the process gets started, it will be easy to maintain I think 09:33 kados owen: then the organization can hire a grant writer to write a given grant 09:33 kados owen: once it's formed, LibLime will make a contribution (probably) 09:33 kados owen: what we're doing ... is forming the organization 09:32 owen Who's doing that writing? 09:31 owen But who is "the foundation" ? 09:31 paul wow... kados reads mails very very quickly !!! 09:31 kados owen: so the foundation can parse those requests, and write them in software development terms 09:31 kados owen: as you well know, requests by Koha users don't really come in 'specification' format 09:30 kados owen: basically 09:30 kados paul++ on the one tab! 09:30 owen So the foundation receives the grant, and then parcels out money based on requests by Koha users? 09:29 kados cool 09:29 paul ENSMP has many ideas for OPAC & wanted to fund them this year, so we could ask pascale. 09:29 kados maybe even project management eventually 09:29 kados it can take on other roles 09:29 kados then, as the foundation begins to establish itself 09:29 kados I think it'll work quite well 09:29 kados and then asking for koha companies to submit bids to do the work 09:28 kados if we have some folks who are writing grants and specs for features 09:28 kados IMO, the foundation will basically just act as a funnel 09:28 kados well ... 09:22 owen We'll need involvement from everyone in order to make the grant really effective 09:21 owen The tough job, however, will be getting everyone's participation in the Foundation 09:17 kados this is why we need the non-profit 09:16 kados yea 09:16 owen In fact, it's the post-grant-writing part that I'd be most concerned about WRT NPL's involvement 09:16 kados brooke might not understand that there is no official organization that is 'koha' 09:16 kados right 09:15 owen I can write something today expressing my point of view. Essentially: I like the foundation idea, and I don't think NPL has the resources to manage the grant 09:14 kados so either ENSMP or Owen :-) 09:13 kados I think it's important for an employee of a non-profit to asnwer brooke 09:13 kados cool 09:13 owen I'd take the job if that was our only option 09:13 paul otherwise, i'm sure that ENSMP will be happy to spend time on this, if it is possible to have an NPO from outside of US 09:12 owen I'd be the only candidate, and I don't know the first thing about grant-writing (and don't really have the time for it) 09:12 paul isn't owen a staff member :-D 09:11 kados though I'm not sure you've got a staff member who could devote time to it 09:11 kados if so, maybe NPL could be the recipient 09:11 kados I'm not sure a library fits the bill there, but it might 09:11 kados which includes "evidence of suitable classification by the Internal Revenue Service" 09:11 kados http://www.mellon.org/MellonGeneral.htm 09:11 kados here are the criteria for the organization: 09:10 kados will recognize not-for-profit organizations that are making substantial contributions of their own resources toward the development of open source software and the fostering of collaborative communities to sustain open source development. 09:10 kados they include: 09:10 kados here are the rules: 09:10 owen I don't know about the Mellon rules, but I agree with your point of view that it would be better for a Foundation to manage the grant than a single company 09:08 kados but I could use another set of eyes to confirm my understanding 09:08 owen I hadn't seen that one yet. 09:08 kados and I'm not sure she understands how the mellon works ... 09:07 kados Brooke just responded to my post this morning 09:07 owen Not closely, but yes 09:07 kados owen: I'm wondering if you've been following the Mellon thread on koha list 09:06 owen Yes 09:06 kados owen: got a sec? 08:46 paul thx 08:45 owen intranet.css, colors.css, and maybe marc-editor.css I'm not sure if that last one is in use 08:42 paul where are the styles defined in npl theme ? 08:41 paul yes, it has to be cleaned, you're right... 08:40 paul but that are important for cloning fields & subfields 08:40 paul I think there is a minor diff in <div>s, that I missed 08:40 paul ok, it works. I just have to tweak my css. 08:36 paul but I still can't understand why MARC editor works fine with NPL & not with default templates... 08:36 paul (hello owen) 08:36 paul I did it ;-) 08:36 paul kados / owen : don't bother to port default changes I made to handle mandatory fields/subfields to npl 08:11 kados but the whole system :-) 08:11 kados not the marc editor 08:11 kados I noticed yesterday that the liblime demo is badly broken :-) 08:11 paul (npl one) 08:11 paul a link to a working marc editor pls ? 08:11 kados yes 08:10 paul do you use authorities with npl marc editor ? 08:10 kados maybe the problem :-) 08:10 kados hehe 08:10 paul mmm... strange, it's nowhere. 08:10 kados grep openAuth includes/ 08:09 kados I think it's in a seprate js file 08:09 kados you'd have to ask owen 08:09 paul where is your openAuth function hidden ? 08:09 kados could be ... 08:09 paul but I get a bug with authorities popup 08:09 kados but I do know that thd has done extensive testing on the npl version 08:09 paul i'm copying npl templates to default. 08:09 paul I know. 08:09 paul because I even don't get the values in the CGI 08:08 paul it's a html problem. 08:08 kados sure 08:08 paul it's not a html2marc problem 08:08 paul about clonetag&subfield problem 08:08 kados paul: yep 08:04 paul kados around ? 06:55 Strait good night 06:50 chris night all 06:45 chris yep 06:38 btoumi hi strait 06:37 btoumi hi chris 06:27 chris cool thanks strait 06:27 Strait hello 06:27 Strait i'll look into it next week 06:27 chris hiya bruno 06:27 btoumi hi all 06:27 chris right 06:27 Strait and set up issuing rules and all that 06:26 Strait but i'll have to create users and branches to koha 06:26 chris 11.26pm friday here 06:26 Strait 14.26 here ;) 06:26 chris its a bit late in the night for my brain to work good tonight :) 06:25 chris so ill take a look then too 06:25 chris we have to do some work on the installer over the next few days 06:25 chris cool 06:25 Strait it doesn't look too difficult 06:24 Strait i'm not a perl expert, but i could give it a go 06:24 chris yep, just needs someone to do it :-) 06:24 Strait yep 06:24 chris updatedatabase i mean 06:23 Strait should be fairly easy to do also :) 06:23 chris yeah, then run the upgrade script 06:23 Strait that would only do mysql -u $user koha < koha.mysql -p 06:22 chris yep, that could be done 06:21 Strait there could be an option "use already created database user... blah... blah... blah... in the installer" 06:20 Strait i had to change the installer a bit 06:20 chris sweet 06:20 Strait as a regular user without root access to mysql 06:19 Strait yep 06:19 chris ohhh you got it all installed? well done 06:19 Strait wasn't too easy though 06:18 Strait finally 06:18 Strait yippee! it works :) 06:03 chris i think the answer is no 06:03 chris can i stay up till 3.30am to watch the football 06:02 chris hmmm 02:56 btoumi cav bien 02:56 ToinS et toi ? 02:56 ToinS très bien ! 02:56 btoumi ? 02:56 btoumi toins:ca va bien 02:55 ToinS salut btoumi 02:55 btoumi hi toins 02:33 btoumi non mais faut ce preparer lol 02:18 paul à cette heure ? 02:18 paul un match ? de quoi ? 02:17 btoumi lol 02:17 btoumi bon ca va alors je m'en vais si on est trop en plus y a un match 02:08 paul et c'est à nouveau l'envahissement du canal par les français... 02:08 btoumi hi all 02:08 pierrick hi paul 02:07 paul hi pierrick 02:03 dewey privet, alaurin 02:03 alaurin hi 02:02 paul hello alaurin 19:24 mason 16:51 thd good night kados 16:48 thd kados: Of course Perl has MAB::Encode or whatever it is called 16:47 thd kados: just look at it again. I discovered PHP ISO 2709 class written in French that provided that simple conversion 16:46 thd s/5226/5426/ 16:46 kados thd: ping me tomorrow about it, I am interested :-) 16:45 thd kados: my z39.50 client does ISO-5226 to UTF-8 conversion 16:45 kados so I'm gonna head out for a drink and turn in early 16:45 kados only got about two hours last night 16:45 chris :) 16:45 kados anyway ... I'm far too tired to discuss MARC :-) 16:45 kados hehe 16:44 kados ie, there's no way to properly store a non-MARC8 non-UTF8 encoded UNINMARC record 16:44 thd kados: they are not incompatible but that is a secret 16:44 chris but i might be missing something 16:44 chris i dont see the point 16:44 kados and encodings 16:44 kados like subjects 16:44 kados but some things are incompatible 16:44 kados that might work 16:43 thd kados: what I mean is that Koha could have a multiple MARC frameworks for multiple MARC flavours and store them all at the same time with conversions between them. 16:43 kados it just means we need some UNIMARC person to become an expert on how to index zebra based on unimarc settings 16:43 kados thd: no reason we can't be multi-MARC still 16:42 kados thd: not necessarily 16:42 thd koha should be multi-MARC but that would break too many things for 3.0 16:42 chris sorry system prefs 16:42 chris we are getting quite a few templates 16:42 kados yea 16:42 chris that people chose from when they install, to give them a basis, and then tweak from there 16:41 chris and sets of system preferences 16:41 thd bad bad bad 16:41 kados thd: have you tried the latest instantiation of the zoomopac? 16:41 chris basically i think what we will end up having is sets of templates 16:41 kados hey thd 16:41 thd yes 16:41 kados he seems to have a handle on both 16:41 kados though maybe we could get thd to map between the two 16:40 kados someone with unimarc clients will have to become a zebra expert :-) 16:40 chris yep 16:40 kados as unimarc's fields are in different places 16:40 chris right 16:40 kados because the attributes for, say, language search, will be different in a unimarc setup 16:39 kados we almost need a UNIMARC template 16:39 chris run the installer and work out what we can automate and what we have left to do manually 16:39 chris but once things are working we can do a tar ball 16:39 kados especially for MARC21 vs UNIMARC 16:39 kados I can't really see a way around doing configuration manually 16:39 kados yea ... on that ... 16:39 chris we'll have to do some work on the installer 16:38 chris sweet 16:38 kados once I verify it's working, we can release 2.3.0 16:38 chris right, thats the next tricky bit 16:38 kados deletes too 16:38 kados then I need to tackle the adds/edits in zebra 16:38 kados I'm hoping to work a bit more on it this weekend 16:38 kados the search is really getting there 16:34 chris glad to hear it :-) 16:31 kados so staying up till 5am paid off :-) 16:31 kados they were very impressed with the search 16:31 chris all good 16:31 kados we should sign with them within a couple weeks if the contract negitiation goes smoothly :-) 16:31 chris excellent 16:30 kados very well 15:52 chris morning