Time Nick Message 12:46 tumer hi kados? 12:47 kados tumer: hey 12:47 kados tumer: just committed some stuff 12:47 tumer I will not be able to attend tonight 12:47 kados tumer: you might find useful 12:48 kados tumer: wow, no tumer, no paul, no pierrick 12:48 tumer about? 12:48 kados tumer: Record.pm with a testing suite 12:48 tumer I've seen it did not have time to play 12:48 kados tumer: you can use it to test your system's capabilities to use the new API I'm proposing for records (which relies on MARC::* on the backend) 12:49 kados it's got some 'not fully implemented' features as well 12:49 tumer I'll do it soon but rather busy now have to attend a 4 day conf in Turkey this week 12:49 kados ahh, cool 12:49 kados I'll try to get the stuff you committed yesterday working 12:50 kados tumer: did you commit all the authorites management stuff? 12:50 tumer I suppose so 12:50 kados tumer: is dev_week == tumer's production koha? 12:51 tumer but I think there are bits that I have committed to head such as script to get marc into authorities table (i.e update from 2-2 to this ver) 12:51 tumer I have to check these 12:52 kados k 12:53 kados tumer: anything else to discuss? 12:53 tumer I have not committed small bits. everything (with npl templates) regarding circulation, authorities marc editing and search 12:53 tumer ok bye for now 12:53 kados small bits would be useful :-) 12:54 kados i assume nothing works without the small bits, right? :-) 12:54 tumer will get things complicated with hard coded NEU stuff 12:54 kados ahh, I see 12:54 tumer No everything I committed works 12:54 kados cool 12:55 kados I'm gonna have owen work on the npl templates this week for dev-week 12:55 tumer how did your system go 12:55 kados did you also commit the new z39.50 stuff? 12:55 tumer being able to edit? witzh zebra 12:56 kados I haven't had a chance to update with the latest commits 12:56 tumer yes all new z39.50 staff 12:56 tumer have to go se you 12:57 kados I'm planning to do that this afternoon 14:18 kados hey Nick 14:19 Nick heyoh. 14:20 Nick whats up? 14:20 hdl helo 14:27 kados hdl: you're definitely right that we need to start using XSLT 14:28 hdl Maybe. But it wil be a hard time to get all stuff working. 14:28 hdl But that would be REALLY helpful. 14:29 hdl are you using some in MARC2MODS ? 14:29 kados yea 14:30 kados LOC maintains a bunch of xslt files for mapping various records from/to each other 14:30 kados we've got about 30 minutes before the meeting, right? 14:30 hdl yes. 14:31 kados I'll bbiab 14:46 kados chris: you around yet? 14:49 kados hey russ 14:49 russ hi 14:49 dewey niihau, russ 14:49 kados T-MINUS 20 MINUTES TO MEETING. AGENDA: http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=agendandnotes06may29 14:49 kados please add any items you'd like to discuss to the agenda 14:55 kados rebooting 14:59 kados bout 1 minute remaining 14:59 kados russ: anything you'd like to discuss at the mtg? 15:00 kados hdl: ? 15:00 hdl yes 15:00 russ no the status of the versions is of interest 15:00 russ hi hdl 15:00 kados hdl: can you add it to the agenda? 15:00 kados russ: can you go: 15:00 hdl hi 15:00 dewey hi, hdl 15:00 kados /mode +o kados 15:01 kados give me back my oper status ;-) 15:01 russ oh right 15:01 kados your autoconnect is faster cause you're in NZ :-) 15:02 kados I'm afraid we don't have enough of a quorum for the Koha Versioning issue 15:02 kados i think we should have paul, tumer and pierrick in on that one 15:03 kados esp since paul's RM for rel_2_2 15:03 russ agreed 15:03 hdl yes 15:03 kados so we'll bump that up to next week 15:03 kados does anyone have anything to say about it for the record? 15:03 kados (asside from the fact that we need to do something about it? :-)) 15:04 kados who's here? 15:04 russ me 15:04 kados chris up yet? 15:04 russ haven't seen him yet 15:04 hdl I have to say that I am working on authorities. on a special branch. 15:05 Nick me, but I don't matter much. 15:05 kados hdl: how's it coming? 15:05 hdl But it concerns UNIMARC specific authorities management. 15:05 kados right 15:05 hdl A new summary 15:05 amanda morning all 15:05 kados hi amanda 15:05 hdl A new facility to show hierarchies 15:05 amanda hi kados 15:06 kados hdl++ 15:07 hdl but still under development and wil have to get adapted to any authority MARC flavor. 15:07 kados ok ... 15:07 kados I haven't taken a look yet 15:07 kados but I would be glad to adapt it to MARC21 authorities 15:07 kados though i suspect tumer will beat me to it :-) 15:08 kados anything else in "News and Questions"? 15:08 kados russ: where are you guys at with serials stuff? 15:08 russ i have done a little more work on the wiki 15:08 kados wiki++ 15:08 hdl I would be very glad to have tumer's work since he adapted biblio fwk for authorities. 15:08 kados hdl: it's in dev_week 15:08 russ but have got to a stage where i need to review some very old content 15:08 kados hdl: he committed it yesterday 15:09 hdl kados: I shall update and play with it. 15:09 russ i might start firing emails to the list with links to determine if some of the content is still relevant 15:09 kados that'd be great russ 15:09 kados there's a ton of old old old content there :-) 15:10 russ serials is in final testing with the client who requested the feature 15:10 kados excellent 15:10 russ amanda has written documentation for it, both online help and a manual 15:10 hdl russ: do you itemize serials ? 15:10 kados fantastic 15:10 kados amanda++ 15:10 russ so once we get the all clear on that we will work on committing it to HEAD 15:10 kados great 15:10 russ hdl: itemize? 15:11 hdl barcode issues when they arrive. 15:11 russ ah yes 15:11 amanda yep 15:11 kados russ: how close is rel_2_2 code and your serials stuff? 15:11 kados russ: is it mostly interface changes? 15:11 russ mostly 15:11 kados cool 15:12 russ our plan is to deploy it not as a replacement but as an alternative 15:12 kados really? 15:12 russ to the current serials module 15:12 kados are you worried that it works differently than the current one? 15:13 russ yep - i dont want to mess around paul and hdl's libraries 15:13 russ but i guess that is a decision for you :-) 15:13 kados it all depends on how differently they work 15:13 hdl I think we will have to test it and see how it would be accepted here in France. 15:14 kados if yours is based on the current one, it would make more sense to me to implement any changes as system preferences 15:14 russ sure 15:14 hdl And on the differences in database. 15:14 kados it could be potentially confusing to have multiple serials modules that work 99% the same way 15:15 kados well, we'll wait till we see the commits i suppose 15:15 kados anything else in News and Questions? 15:15 russ that is all i have 15:16 kados k ... we're gonna skip Koha Versioning 15:16 kados chris about yet? 15:16 kados otherwise, we'll have to skip Koha API as well 15:16 chris im here 15:16 kados sweet 15:17 kados http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=agendandnotes06may29 15:17 kados good morning chris :-) 15:17 hdl kados : Do you know about BiblioML ? 15:17 kados hdl: no, what is it? 15:18 russ see you later 15:18 kados bye russ 15:18 hdl http://www.biblioml.org/fr/dtds.html 15:18 kados hdl: it's a set of dtds for dealing with UNIMARC records? 15:18 hdl these are dtds for biblio and authorities management 15:19 kados sweet 15:19 kados I'll have to take a look at that 15:19 kados might find something useful for the new Record.pm 15:19 kados so ... Koha API? 15:19 kados chris: got a few minutes to discuss the new API? 15:20 chris yep 15:20 chris what about it ? :-) 15:20 hdl kados: pls detail your points. 15:20 kados well ... 15:21 kados 1. as currently implemented, neither MARC libraries nor non-MARC libraries are fully happy with Koha 15:22 kados because we're mapping an extensible framework (MARC) to a non-extensible one (old Koha tables) 15:22 kados so the first issue to discuss is how to resolve this problem so that both types of libraries are happy 15:23 kados chris and I discussed using an XSLT stylesheet to explain the Koha tables 15:23 kados (I started one: http://liblime.com/public/koha-tables.dtd) 15:23 kados sorry ... dtd 15:24 kados chris and i discussed using a DTD to explain the koha tables 15:24 kados and I was thinking that a DTD isn't all that different from the MARC frameworks 15:25 kados if we could implement all the frameworks as DTDs, it would really simplify the process of supporting future record formats 15:25 kados (I think) 15:26 kados if we stored all the Koha table data in an XML file 15:26 kados something like: 15:26 kados <biblio> 15:26 kados <biblionumber>1</biblionumber> 15:26 kados <biblioitem> 15:27 kados <item> 15:27 kados etc ... 15:27 hdl what about visibility and values to be linked to authorised_values ? 15:27 kados then we could use zebra to search, etc. 15:28 kados right 15:28 kados well, I'm not sure yet, this is just an idea 15:28 kados I'm no DTD expert either 15:29 kados in fact, until this weekend, I'd never looked at one ;-) 15:29 kados but I'm thinking we have: 15:29 kados scratch that ... 15:29 hdl To my mind, dtds are not that flexible as framework. 15:29 kados maybe not 15:29 kados chris: what do you think 15:30 chris basically what we want is a way to allow koha to function in a way taht allows people to work with the 3 tier biblio, group, items idea 15:30 kados yep 15:30 chris or deal directly with marc 15:31 chris so all we are seeking to achieve is a useful abstraction over the marc 15:31 chris it would be best if the data was only stored once 15:32 kados I disagree that the goal is to abstract the MARC 15:32 kados that's what we do now 15:32 chris no we dont 15:32 kados no? 15:32 chris we populate a whole other bunch of tables 15:32 kados then I dont' understand what that means :-) 15:33 chris and return data from them 15:33 kados what would be involved in abstraction over the marc? 15:34 chris everything in programming is an abstraction over something, you dont present the data as its stored 15:34 kados ok ... 15:34 chris otherwise ud make everyone work in binary, or flick switches for voltages 15:34 kados :-) 15:35 hdl why not using an existing format then ? 15:35 chris yep we could 15:35 hdl Is there a format you would prefer ? 15:35 chris what i was thinking about (its an early morning idea so might be crap) 15:35 hdl Dublin-Core ? 15:35 chris is that we store the bibliographical data in one place 15:35 chris and then, we have meta data about that data 15:36 chris yes maybe in dublin core 15:36 kados hmmm 15:36 chris im trying to avoid the situation we have now, of when we change the title say, we have to change biblio.title, marc_subfield, marc_word etc 15:37 kados righ 15:37 kados t 15:37 kados well ... maybe another way to do it 15:37 hdl the problem for us is to keep kind of backward compatibility... 15:37 kados would be to store the koha tables data in XML 15:37 kados what I'm thinking about 15:38 kados is the fact that we've had so many people ask if Koha could store non-MARC data 15:38 chris right 15:38 kados if we had a way to define databases and types 15:38 chris yeah 15:38 kados as in types of databases 15:38 kados this one is 'marc' 15:38 kados this one is 'dc' 15:38 kados this one is 'koha' 15:39 chris actually yeah that might work 15:40 chris for the opac tho 15:40 kados it'd be ideal 15:40 kados because eventually we're going to want to search multiple databases 15:40 chris you'll still want to have some abstraction over marc 15:40 kados in the opac 15:40 chris or over dc 15:40 chris etc 15:40 kados hmmm 15:40 kados yea, true 15:41 kados I guess ideally something like ISBD if properly implemented 15:41 kados might be able to serve that purpose 15:41 chris true 15:41 kados or MODS even 15:41 kados there are XSLT stylesheets for MODS that map between DC and MARC and MODS already 15:41 chris ideally, allowing the library to choose what displays on each page of the search in the opac would be the way to do it 15:41 kados yea, definitely 15:42 kados hmmm 15:42 chris if the code say 15:42 chris sorry 15:42 chris if they could say 15:42 chris dc.creator = author display that here 15:43 chris i dunno 15:43 kados yea, it's a tough one 15:43 kados everyone seen this?: 15:43 kados http://liblime.com/public/koha-tables.dtd 15:43 chris yep 15:43 hdl I overlooked 15:44 kados woops, posted in the wrong link :-) 15:44 hdl ... I've read DTDs were abandonned in favor of schemas 15:44 kados http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/ 15:44 kados hdl: MODS Schema, you may be right :-) 15:45 chris that might be what we are after 15:45 kados i implemented a basic marc2mods sub for Record.pm this morning 15:45 Nick The DTDs are getting overcome by schemas for the more elaborate things.... 15:45 kados using the xslt on that page 15:46 kados I'm actually planning to create a new perl module called MODS::Record 15:46 kados and MODS::File::XML 15:46 kados to deal with mods records 15:46 kados but I could use some help knowing how best to implement parts of that 15:46 kados I've not done much OO programming 15:47 kados and not sure how best to open files, etc. in a module like that 15:47 chris i dont like OO much at all 15:47 kados no? 15:47 chris nope 15:47 kados it seems to be the way that MARC::* and DublinCore::* are done 15:47 chris yep 15:47 kados as well as Net::Z3950::* 15:48 chris i dont hate it 15:48 kados :-) 15:48 chris i just prefer old school functions and procedures 15:48 kados yea, that's how Koha is written I suppose 15:49 hdl PERL6 is getting more and more OO too. 15:49 chris im yet to be convinced OO does anything other than add confusion 15:49 kados i was gonna ask whether we planned to go OO or not 15:49 chris i dont really mind either way as long as we document the hell out of the methods 15:49 kados yea 15:49 kados check out Record.pm :-) 15:49 kados I documented the hell out of it :-) 15:49 chris maybe i dont like OO because usually its really hard to figure out whats going on 15:50 kados yea, I have had that prob 15:50 chris so its less the styles fault, more the people writing in that style :) 15:50 kados just figured it was because I wasn't a programmer 15:50 chris naw 15:50 chris its just another layer of abstraction 15:50 kados there are two programming questions I've got 15:50 chris it really is all functions in the background 15:50 chris you are just pretending its an object :) 15:51 kados 1. how do I implement a perl API for a C utility? 15:52 kados 2. how do I open files properly in a module like MODS::Record 15:53 kados (ie, I've got some XSLT files I need to open, and not where to put them, etc, so they're not hardcoded to my specific directory structure 15:53 chris 1. not sure off the top of my head, i suspect in lots of different ways 15:53 chris 2. yeah thats a tricky one 15:53 hdl 1 is dealt in Porgramming Perl (O'Reilly book) 15:54 hdl s//programing/ 15:54 kados hdl: ok, I'll check it out 15:54 chris when you create you mods::record object you could create it with a path 15:54 chris that you pass to it 15:54 chris and the files could live under that path 15:54 Nick Chris - if it helps there is another o'reilly book that might help (with the OO thing) 15:55 Nick "Learning Perl Objects, References and Modules" - Schwartz. 15:55 chris the same way you do for html::template 15:55 chris ahh cool nick 15:55 chris i like randal schwartz 15:55 chris he bought me a beer once :-) 15:55 kados heh 15:55 Nick hehe. 15:55 hdl btw I owe you one :) 15:55 chris next time you're in nz hdl :-) 15:57 chris kados: does that html::template bit help? 15:57 kados hmmm 15:57 kados kind of 15:57 hdl what about rebuild_zebra_idx... 15:57 kados hdl: what about it? 15:58 kados I found this great set of record utilities: 15:58 kados http://www.scripps.edu/~cdputnam/software/bibutils/ 15:58 hdl If you could get some parameters and not only biblios directory.. 15:58 kados but they're implemented in C 15:59 kados hence the first question 15:59 kados anything else to discuss at our mtg? 15:59 chris my $mods = MODS::Record->(path => '/path/to/files'); 15:59 kados ahh 16:00 kados well ... thing is 16:00 kados I'd like to avoid making people download the files separately 16:00 kados I'd rather distribute them with the modul 16:00 kados e 16:00 kados I tried to figure out how MARC::Charset does it 16:00 kados but got a bit lost :-) 16:00 chris it'll put them in /usr/local/share or something 16:01 chris if you can control where the files get put, then you can have a hardcoded ref to them 16:01 kados hmmm 16:01 kados is hardcoded reference to libraries good programming practice? :-) 16:02 chris the thing with modules like MARC::Charset 16:02 hdl but Linux, windows, MAC seems quite nonesense to have one thing hardcoded. 16:02 chris is that the get installed with a Makefile.PL 16:02 chris and make and make install 16:03 chris that can do things like put files somewhere, put the paht of where they are going in the module etc 16:03 kados I see : 16:03 kados my $path = $INC{'MARC/Charset/Table.pm'}; 16:03 kados yea, I plan to use makefile.PL for MODS::Record 16:04 chris h2xs 16:04 chris is your friend 16:04 chris h2xs -XAn MODS::Record 16:04 chris try that in /tmp 16:04 kados k 16:07 kados k, I've got some reading / programming to do 16:07 kados thanks for the help guys 16:07 chris no problem 16:09 chris ohh nick is nick ... from the olden days 16:09 chris how the heck are you? 16:11 hdl see you. 16:11 kados bye hdl 16:11 chris night hdl 16:11 kados I've got to get a snack 16:11 kados bbiab 16:14 Nick Pretty good. 16:14 Nick Looking at getting back to a more normal life. 16:14 chris :-) 16:14 Nick And apologies for my excessive silence! 16:14 Nick Or something like that. 16:14 chris no problem, good to have you back around 16:19 Nick Good to have the chance... 16:24 Nick catch y'all later. 16:24 chris cya nick 16:30 kados btw, in case anyone's interested, here's NPL's testing platform for Zebra: 16:30 kados http://zoomopac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-catalogue-home.pl 16:30 kados based on dev-week code, with some local modifs 16:31 chris brb gotta make some phone calls 16:31 kados k, have fun 16:58 rach morning 16:58 chris morning rach 16:59 rosa morning from me too 16:59 rach rosa we had a very exciting morning - ben did his first proper roll from front to back 17:00 rosa oh exciting indeed 17:00 rosa was he surprised? 17:00 rach he was, but quite excited so we did it only a hundred more times :-) 17:01 rosa just to prove it wasn't an accident 17:02 rach yep 17:02 rach first time the falling over bit was an accident 17:02 rach but then he very carefully did it some more times 17:03 rosa oh, intelligent, too! 17:03 rach yep - is careful with his head 18:14 kados chris: what's the difference between dynamically loading and statically linking a library? 18:14 chris ahh statically linking a library you include that library in your code 18:15 chris dynamically linking you link to a version of that library 18:15 chris for ege 18:15 chris you can compile apache with mod_perl included 18:15 chris or you can load it as a module 18:16 kados interesting 18:16 chris /usr/lib/apache2/modules/mod_perl.so 18:16 chris dynamic library 18:16 kados so i could actually include binutils header files in my BinUtils module 18:16 kados and it would be statically linked 18:17 kados ie, the user wouldn't need to install the real binutils 18:17 chris you compile it into your code 18:17 chris im not sure you can statically link with perl 18:17 kados otherwise, i could dynamically load the header files from the real binutils 18:17 kados perldoc perlxs 18:17 chris im not sure the concept holds for interpreted languages 18:17 kados perldoc perlxstut 18:18 kados perlxs seems to indicate either one is possible 18:18 kados The XS interface is combined with the library to create 18:18 kados a new library which can then be either dynamically loaded or statically 18:18 kados linked into perl. 18:18 chris ahh 18:18 kados or is that something different? 18:18 chris It is commonly thought that if a system does not have the capability to dynamically load a library, you cannot 18:18 chris build XSUBs. This is incorrect. You can build them, but you must link the XSUBs subroutines with the rest of 18:18 chris Perl, creating a new executable. 18:19 chris if you want a statically linked xsub you need a new perl 18:19 kados ahh 18:19 kados gotcha, so it's probably better to dynamically load then 18:19 chris yep 18:19 kados k ... 18:19 kados i also read up on OO 18:20 kados I think I'm gonna implement MODS::Record as OO just to get some experience working with it 18:20 kados plus it seems to be the style of choice when dealing with bib records in perl 18:21 kados this stuff gets complex real fast :-) 18:21 kados I keep telling myself I need to take some programming classes 18:21 chris :-) what were you seeking to achieve with you linking? 18:21 chris with your linking even 18:22 kados well ... I've got this tookit called bibutils, written in C 18:22 kados it does some really killer stuff like: 18:22 kados # bib2xml - convert bibtex to XML intermediate 18:22 kados # copac2xml - convert COPAC format references to XML intermediate 18:22 kados # end2xml - convert endnote to XML intermediate 18:22 kados # isi2xml - convert ISI web of science to XML intermediate 18:22 kados # med2xml - convert Pubmed XML references to XML intermediate 18:22 kados # modsclean - a MODS to MODS converter for testing puposes mostly 18:22 kados # ris2xml - convert RIS format to XML intermediate 18:22 kados # xml2bib - convert XML intermediate into bibtex 18:22 chris ahh cool 18:22 kados # xml2ris - convert XML intermediate into RIS format 18:22 kados # xml2end - convert XML intermediate into format for EndNote 18:22 kados etc. 18:22 kados stuff we'd kill to have in Koha 18:22 chris so you are wanting to build a perl wrapper? 18:22 kados so I want to write a perl API for it 18:22 kados yea 18:23 chris righto 18:23 kados so then I can just use Wrapper::BibUtils 18:23 kados in Record.pm 18:23 chris yep 18:23 kados and have access to all that stuff 18:23 chris makes sense 18:23 kados cool 18:24 kados hopefully by mid-week you'll see MODS::Record and Wrapper::BibUtils as well as some nice modifs to C4::Record 18:24 kados btw ... 18:24 kados what's with the Koha C4 directory 18:24 kados why is it named C4? 18:24 kados should't we rename it to Koha? 18:25 chris http://search.cpan.org/src/MIRK/Net-Z3950-ZOOM-1.08/lib/Net/Z3950/ZOOM.pm 18:25 chris can if you want 18:25 chris just make sure you replace every instance of C4 with Koha :) 18:25 kados just curious historically why C4 was named C4 :-) 18:25 kados (yea, of course :-) 18:25 kados I was thinking it would be cool to have Koha up on CPAN 18:26 chris 2 reasons 18:26 kados rosa's just telling me :-) 18:26 chris cool 18:27 chris http://opac.bigballofwax.co.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=12 18:27 chris if you can find an updated version of this joshua 18:27 kados heh, that's a cool reason for the name C4 18:27 chris its a good theoretical grounding 18:27 kados k, thanks 18:28 chris makes the practical more comprehensible i find 18:28 kados cool 18:28 kados so was C4 going to be the original name of Koha? 18:28 chris it was just a working name 18:28 kados kinda like C and C++ and C# :-) 18:28 chris until we came up with a real one 18:29 chris there were a few tossed around before koha was settled on 18:29 chris i forget the others 18:29 kados what's your thought on CPAN? 18:29 chris i remember sitting in a cafe with rachel, rosa, jo and si .. and probably olwen too talking about names 18:29 chris i think thats a good idea 18:29 kados think we'll see a day when we can just install Koha from CPAN? 18:30 chris well, most of it 18:30 chris all the modules anyway 18:30 kados right 18:30 chris its another thing to keep up to date 18:30 chris BUT 18:30 chris if we had it in cpan 18:30 chris then it would be easier to get 18:30 kados yea 18:30 chris lib-koha-perl 18:31 chris in debian for instance 18:31 kados yea 18:31 chris or 18:31 chris libkoha-modules-perl 18:32 chris i think first priority 18:32 chris fixing the bundle 18:32 kados yea ... i think I actually have write access on PAUSE for that 18:32 kados i forget now 18:33 kados why'd you post the zoom link above 18:33 chris oh, cos its the wrapper to the c libs for zoom 18:33 kados as an example of a dynamically linked XS? 18:34 chris yes 18:34 kados yea, I couldn't really figure that out :-) 18:34 chris ok lets find a better one :) 18:35 kados \ 18:35 kados oops 18:35 chris http://search.cpan.org/src/DANIEL/Term-Slang-0.07/Slang.pm 18:36 chris dunno if thats any more comprehensible :) 18:36 kados hmmm ... 18:36 kados is that all there is to it? 18:36 kados ie, that's the whole deal? 18:37 chris http://search.cpan.org/src/GIRAFFED/Curses-1.13/Curses.pm 18:37 chris theres a bigger one 18:38 chris with lots of comments 18:38 kados smallness is good :-) 18:39 chris i *think* thats all there is to it 18:40 chris you define all the names, which are the same names as in the c 18:40 chris then use the dynaloader 18:40 chris and it works 18:40 chris but maybe thats just wishful thinking :) 18:41 kados there's also the XS file: 18:41 kados http://search.cpan.org/src/DANIEL/Term-Slang-0.07/Slang.xs 18:41 chris right 18:42 chris id try it with just the version 18:42 chris or just one function 18:42 kados yea 19:15 kados hey tumer 19:15 tumer hi kados 19:15 tumer how did the meeting go 19:16 tumer I could not read the logs it seems off at the momemnt 19:16 kados pretty well 19:16 kados ahh ... too bad 19:16 kados chris: logbot is off? 19:16 kados no, seems to be up 19:17 tumer well not the link from wiki 19:17 tumer hi chris 19:17 kados seems to be working: 19:17 kados http://koha.org/cgi-bin/logs.pl?user=&channel=&action=&text=&user-ddl=&channel-ddl=&action-ddl=&startdate=yesterday&enddate=now&saveas=&save=save 19:18 chris it should be working 19:18 tumer kados: regarding my commits 19:18 kados yes? 19:18 tumer I did not leave behind anything as you thought 19:19 tumer everything about circulation search biblio & authorities management is there 19:20 tumer all other modules I did not commit because of incompatibilities of coding 19:20 kados what other modules? 19:21 kados :-) 19:21 tumer well serials acquisition etc. 19:21 kados does your serials acquisition differ greatly from what's in rel_2_2? 19:22 kados is it built on what's there? 19:22 kados (now we have three versions of serials in Koha!) 19:22 tumer if I commit everything it gets more complicated. Hourly charged reserve section circulation, barcode based reserves ... 19:22 kados (paul/hdl's, katipo's, and tumer's) 19:23 kados wow ... I didn't realize you'd done that 19:23 kados chris: hourly charged reserves ! 19:23 kados chris: wonder how similar that would be to what Toledo wants 19:23 chris quite different 19:23 chris but useful nonetheless 19:23 kados barcode based reserves is what NPL wants 19:24 tumer no not reserves! 19:24 chris oh thats already done 19:24 kados yea in head 19:24 kados not reserves? 19:24 chris hourly based issues id be interested in 19:24 kados ann ... 19:24 kados hourly based issues 19:24 chris yeah 19:24 chris thats something useful for lots of libraries 19:24 tumer hourly charged circulation material which we call reserve section 19:24 kados yea, all that stuff is highly desired 19:25 kados but I know what you mean about complicating things 19:25 chris maybe we need to merge it in with a systempref or so 19:25 kados we've got to fix this versioning stuff 19:26 tumer its getting more complicated than systemprefs 19:26 tumer we have to merge at one point 19:26 chris yes 19:26 kados my idea would be to have: 19:27 kados rel_2_2 -> 2.2.6 19:27 kados dev_week -> 2.4 19:27 kados head -> 3.0 19:27 chris head is head 19:27 kados yea ... branch when it gets stable 19:27 chris it wont get stable 19:27 chris :) 19:27 kados hehe 19:27 chris seriously it wont 19:27 chris we will want to branch when we call feature freeze 19:28 chris and then make that branch stable 19:28 tumer I want to know whether someone using dev-week can actually setup a system 19:28 tumer it works for me but thats not good enough 19:29 kados NPL's going to be testing it starting at the endo fo this week 19:29 chris yeah if we want 2.4 to come from there we should do a 2.3.0 release (a dev one) from dev_week 19:29 chris and then a 2.3.1 etc .. until we get it to a point where its good enough for 2.4 19:29 kados huh ... an actual release, eh? 19:30 chris release early release often 19:30 kados tumer: http://zoomopac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-catalogue-home.pl 19:30 chris we havent done an unstable release in ages 19:30 kados true 19:30 kados I can't remember one in fact :-) 19:30 chris well leading into 2.2 and 2.0 we did them 19:30 chris and up to 1.2 19:31 chris there were a lot of 1.1.x release etc 19:31 chris you cetainly can spot how far you are away pretty easily 19:32 kados side note: 19:32 kados tumer: did you see my mail I forwarded to you about attr 3=? 19:32 tumer kados:no 19:33 kados tumer: i don't think you get email from me for some reason 19:33 tumer any mails from you do not come 19:33 kados weird 19:34 kados I'll have to start using koha-devel to email to you :-) 19:34 tumer very 19:34 tumer well at least use my hotmail and notify me on koha-devel 19:34 kados what's the hotmail again? 19:35 tumer tumergarip@hotmail.com 19:35 kados k 19:36 kados tumer: forwarded that email from ID 19:36 kados tumer: on attr 3 19:38 tumer chris:whta time is it there? 19:38 chris 12.38pm on tuesday 19:39 kados tumer: based on Sebs response, I'm wondering if you're thinking of removing the 'starting with' or re-implementing it as he describes? 19:41 kados tumer: check your spam filter :-) 19:41 tumer kados:since we can not use it I'll remove it 19:42 tumer kados: I'll add the functionality of 'whole of subfield' 19:43 tumer which will mean an exact match say for a title 19:43 kados well ... almost 19:43 kados it won't catch cross-subfield titles like 19:43 kados Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring 19:43 kados but probably close enough 19:43 tumer just to give opportunity to reduce number of hits when needed 19:43 kados yep 19:44 chris yeah 19:44 tumer its already implemented with authorities -committed 19:44 kados excellen 19:45 kados t 19:45 kados I've got to get some dinner 19:45 kados talk to you guys later 19:45 chris cya later 19:46 tumer and me some sleep at 03:45am 19:46 chris sleep well tumer 19:46 chris thanks for your hard work 19:46 tumer bye chris 21:12 kados funny ... 21:12 kados http://dev.perl.org/perl6/architecture.html 21:12 kados One of the major reasons to revisit Perl was to fix the mess that is XS (the way you extend Perl with C or C++ subroutines). Perl5 has no API for extension, separate from the functions used to implement Perl, and extending Perl requires hideous amounts of work. Dan and Larry are aiming to make C extensions as easy as they possibly can be (Brian Ingerson's excellent perl5 Inline modules give some directions for this). Anyone who has used XS looks forward to its dem 21:13 chris yeah theres lots to look forward to in perl 6 21:14 chris did you see this 21:14 chris http://www.perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=494927 21:14 chris (speaking of funny) 21:15 kados hehe 21:25 kados looks like Inline.pm 's the way to go here 21:25 kados you can actually run C code without messing with anything 21:26 chris sounds good to me 21:26 kados perl -e 'use Inline C=> 21:26 kados q{void J(){printf("Just Another Perl Hacker\n");}};J' 21:26 kados and since conversion is never high-priority for speed 21:26 chris yeah 21:26 kados I figure we can get away with it 21:26 chris does it run compiled c? 21:26 kados haven't gotten that far 21:27 kados yep 21:27 kados The most common real world need for Inline is probably using it to access existing compiled C code from Perl. This is easy to do. The secret is to write a wrapper function for each function you want to expose in Perl space. The wrapper calls the real function. 21:27 kados hehe 21:27 kados perfect 21:27 chris cool 22:23 kados so, looking at Inline, here's how to access readline() from the GNU ReadLine Library: 22:23 kados package MyTerm; 22:23 kados use Inline C => Config => 22:23 kados ENABLE => AUTOWRAP => 22:23 kados LIBS => "-lreadline -lncurses -lterminfo -ltermcap "; 22:24 kados use Inline C => q{ char * readline(char *); }; 22:24 kados as described here: 22:24 kados http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/Inline/C/C-Cookbook.pod#Automatic_Function_Wrappers 22:24 kados package main; 22:24 kados my $x = MyTerm::readline("xyz: "); 22:24 kados I only had one quarter of C way back when, and don't remember much ... 22:24 kados LIBS => "lreadline, etc' 22:25 kados would those be the header files? or the .c files? 22:25 kados (or the bin files?) 22:25 kados say I've got the function xml2end 22:26 kados which exists in bin/xml2end.c 22:26 kados (in the bibutils stuff) 22:27 chris good question 22:27 chris i havent written any c since 1992 22:27 kados hehe 22:27 kados it goes on to say: 22:27 kados We access existing functions by merely showing Inline their declarations, rather than a full definition. Of course the function declared must exist, either in a library already linked to Perl or in a library specified using the LIBS option. 22:27 kados so it seems I need: 22:28 chris im guessing u are linking to the .so files 22:28 kados 1. the function name and it's 'declarations' (whatever that means) 22:28 kados and 2. the library where they exist 22:28 kados .so, eh 22:28 chris thats my guess 22:28 chris course ld does the linking for ya 22:29 kados http://www.scripps.edu/~cdputnam/software/bibutils/bibutils_3.24_src.tgz 22:29 kados is where the source for bibutils lives 22:29 chris it might not be compiled into a dynamically linkable chunk of code 22:29 kados ahh, maybe I need to actually install it first 22:29 chris actually i lie 22:30 chris its probably the .h 22:30 chris files 22:30 kados hmmm ... 22:30 chris actually i have no idea 22:30 kados heh 22:30 chris i just know that when you are compiling, or making something 22:30 chris -lsomelib 22:31 chris means link in that library 22:32 kados ahh 22:33 kados maybe it's the object files 22:33 kados well, I'm getting awful tired 22:33 kados I'll hack on this some more tomorrow 22:33 kados cheers 03:20 hdl hi 03:20 dewey hi, hdl 03:21 ToinS salut hdl 03:33 qiqo hello everyboday 03:34 qiqo anyone home? 03:34 paul hello qiqo. 03:34 qiqo hi paul 03:34 qiqo paul poulan? 03:34 paul yep 03:34 qiqo ei how are you 03:34 qiqo how was dev week 03:34 paul fine, thanks. 03:35 qiqo any development with 3.0? 03:35 paul devWeek was very very interesting, but also very tiring ! 03:35 paul many. although koha 3.0 is not ready yet 03:35 qiqo how i wished i was there,, but you know, we lack the money 03:35 qiqo is zebra doing fine? 03:36 paul tumer (from cyprus), did a wonderful work on this topic. 03:36 qiqo wow 03:36 qiqo ei, ive a question, can i remotely access the intranet part of koha even if i am out of that netwoek? 03:37 paul yep, if your apache virtual host permit this ! 03:37 qiqo hows that? 03:37 paul it's not a Koha problem, but a TCP-IP / Apache one. 03:37 qiqo ahh.. 03:37 qiqo so am i to configure apache? 03:38 qiqo how will i know if its permitted.. 03:38 paul yes, you have to look at apache config file, and maybe your firewall/gateway config. 03:38 qiqo i really have to work outside because i still am at school so i need to access my client's intranet 03:38 qiqo ahh alright,, my opac is runing great outside the network 03:41 qiqo another question, well as ive told you before, i am planing to have a linux distro with koha integrated with it. How come there are no projects like this before? 03:41 paul I think there are or were some. although not necessary uptodate. 03:42 paul but none of them is supported officially. This could change if someone want to. 03:42 qiqo actually im done with the System analysis, and right now, i am facing difficulties with packing the perl modules as a debian package, eventually i might surpass these hardships you know 03:43 qiqo ohh so to whom shall I ask for its official support? 03:44 qiqo you know, an ILS integrated with a linux distro is badly needed in my country since a portion of our archipelago has internet 03:44 qiqo and libraries usually are at the remote places.. 03:46 qiqo geez.. i talk too much, sorry :) 03:46 paul qiqo: Koha just need someone saying "i'll package a distro with Koha included, and maintain it". If, after discussion (on koha-devel probably), it appears the guy saying this is serious and should be able to do this on a long term, then it's donne. 03:47 paul the guy will be applied "Koha-distro manager" ;-) 03:48 qiqo hmmm.. wow,, i really should have a product here since this is my thesis on my undergrade 03:48 qiqo *undergrad.. 03:48 qiqo hehe 03:48 paul the question is not only "have a product", but also : 03:48 paul - share the tools used to create it 03:49 paul - be sure to have a "long-term" update of the product. 03:49 qiqo and i think, i will be obliged to maintain this because i have a line of beneficiaries since this will be implemented to public libraries here in the Phlippines 03:49 qiqo :) 03:50 qiqo ei is 3.0 available at the CVS? 03:50 paul another point : the tool, to be official, must let you choose between, for example, language and marc flavour. It can't be only 1 language & 1 marc (marc21 or unimarc) 03:50 paul of course, everything is on CVS. 03:50 qiqo alright 03:50 paul but it don't work at all atm ! 03:51 qiqo hmmm.. well linux is very flexible right? so one has the option to choose his/her native language 03:51 qiqo and i believe has other language support too, right? 03:52 qiqo and i believe koha has other language support too, right? 03:55 qiqo well ei gotta go, i will send apport to you a report regarding the development of my project,, thanks paul 03:55 paul your welcome. 03:55 qiqo more power to us 04:21 hdl hi tumer 05:22 paul hello pierrick 05:23 pierrick hello paul 05:23 pierrick sorry but I forgot the meeting yesterday :-/ My son had som "difficulties" to sleep 05:24 paul I told everybody we would probably miss the meeting as we were in Lyon. so, they where not surprised ! 05:25 chris hi paul and pierrick 05:25 paul hi kiwi. 05:25 chris heh 05:25 paul how are things ? 05:25 ToinS hi all ! 05:25 chris hiya toins 05:25 chris things are good 05:26 chris busy but good, how are things there? 05:26 paul busy too. 05:26 paul and a lot of wind today ! 05:26 paul nope 05:26 chris the first time wellington made it to the final 05:27 chris and most of the game was hidden by fog 05:27 chris and we lost :( 05:27 pierrick hi chris, hi ToinS 05:28 ToinS hi pierrick 05:31 chris paul: are france touring this year? 05:31 paul touring ? 05:33 chris coming down to the southern hemisphere to play against australia or south africa, or argentina ... i know you arent playing against nz in our winter 05:35 chris :-) 05:35 chris nz play brazil in switzerland soon 05:35 chris thats the only soccer news i know :) 05:38 chris ok i think i have everything ready for my meeting tomorrow time to go to bed i think 05:38 paul bye chris. 05:38 chris bye 05:38 paul sweet dreams to you & your wife 05:38 paul (how's she ?) 05:39 chris shes good, shes writing up about the galleries she went to in marseille 05:39 chris for her work 05:39 paul and baby ? 05:39 dewey well, baby is really fine :-) 07:46 kados morning all 07:47 kados I guess Context.pm is object-oriented 07:47 kados or at least it tries to be :-) 07:49 paul hello kados. 07:49 paul you're right, Context.pm is OO 07:49 paul + I now have my 1st UN library too : 1 for katipo, 1 for you & 1 for me ;-) 07:50 paul (a small migration contract) 07:58 kados cool 07:58 kados which one? 07:58 paul unu-merit 07:58 paul http://www.merit.unu.edu/ 07:59 kados nice 08:06 kados paul: I'm not familiar with OO programming that much 08:06 kados tumer has written: 08:06 kados my $oConnection=C4::Context->Zconn("biblioserver"); 08:06 kados in Search.pm in dev_week 08:06 kados then, in Context.pm: 08:06 kados sub Zconn { 08:06 kados my $self = shift; 08:06 kados my $server=shift; 08:06 kados but when I do a warn on the next line: 08:06 kados warn "SELF:".$self." SERVER".$server; 08:07 kados SERVER doesn't have 'biblioserver' 08:07 kados (though $self has C4::Context) 08:07 kados paul: can you see anything wrong with the syntax above? 08:07 paul what is in self ? 08:07 paul what says Data::dumper ? 08:08 kados what should I pass to Data::Dumper, @_? 08:09 paul $self and $server 1st I think. 08:09 paul or @_, it should be useful too 08:13 kados it seems it only has $VAR1 = 'C4::Context'; 08:13 kados so where did "biblioserver" go? 08:16 paul mmm... good question... 08:18 paul (but suspect there is a problem if you try to connect to 2 different servers : the 1st one will make $context->Zconn exist, and &new_Zconn won't be called. 08:19 paul so, you can have only 1 connexion here. 08:19 paul (unless i'm missing something) 08:21 kados the original Context.pm could handle multiple contexts 08:22 kados at least it claims to in the docs ;-) 08:22 kados the bottom line question si 08:22 kados why isn't: 08:22 kados my $oConnection=C4::Context->Zconn("biblioserver"); 08:22 kados passing "biblioserver" to the Zconn sub as the second argument? 08:23 kados IIRC, first argument is always class in OO right? 08:33 paul kados : right. 09:02 kados so we have a system in Koha, Context.pm, and noone knows how to use it :-) 09:02 kados great! :-) 09:03 paul lol 09:13 kados hey owen 09:13 kados how was the weekend? 09:13 owen Hot! 09:14 kados heh 09:15 kados owen: just noticed a bit of a glitch in the OPAC when displaying long URLs ... 09:15 kados http://wipoopac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?bib=4719 09:15 kados hey tumer 09:15 tumer hi kados 09:15 kados tumer: i discovered the problem with Context.pm 09:15 tumer yes? 09:16 kados tumer: in Search.pm you have: 09:16 kados my $oConnection=C4::Context->Zconn("biblioserver"); 09:16 kados and in Context.pm: 09:16 tumer hmm 09:16 kados sub Zconn { 09:16 kados my $self = shift; 09:16 kados my $server = shift; 09:16 kados when I add: 09:16 kados warn "SERVER:".$server; 09:16 kados I get nothing 09:16 kados but if I put: 09:17 kados $server = "biblioserver"; 09:17 kados it works fine 09:17 tumer sure 09:17 kados soe for some reason, it's not passing in the value 09:17 kados I'm not enough of an OOP geek to understand why 09:17 tumer its my poor perl 09:18 tumer how to call $server and $self ? may be @_ i donno 09:18 kados tumer: I used Data::Dumper 09:18 kados tumer: and did: 09:19 kados Dumper(@_); 09:19 kados well ... 09:19 kados warn Dumper(@_); 09:19 kados but all I get is what's in $self 09:19 kados 'biblioserver' doesn't show up in the object 09:19 tumer :-( 09:20 kados it works on your windows box? 09:20 tumer yes it does 09:20 kados really strange 09:20 kados well, at least we undrstand the prob nw 09:20 kados now 09:20 kados I can bug chris about it tonight 09:20 kados one ommore thing 09:20 kados more even 09:20 kados the facility to restart zebra if the server crashes 09:21 kados has a hard-coded reference to a log file 09:21 kados (plus I think it won't work on *nix ) 09:21 kados maybe that log file should be stored in the koha.xml? 09:21 tumer oh! that has to be commented aout altogether cause its windwos 09:21 tumer windows 09:21 kados yea, i did comment it out eventually 09:22 kados finally ... 09:22 kados the fallback mechanism doesn't work 09:22 kados if the zebra server goes down (well, the connection at least) 09:22 kados searching doesn't work 09:23 tumer have to check logs. probably mysql tables not indexed on required fields 09:24 tumer all the old koha tables major fields have to be indexed for it to work 09:24 tumer like title,subtitle author,isbn,subject etc. 09:25 kados hmmm 09:25 tumer I played with record.pl 09:25 kados Record.pm you mean? 09:26 kados how'd it go? 09:26 tumer lots of error whn it comes to comining chars 09:26 kados ok ... 09:26 tumer combining chars i mean 09:26 kados I suspect the reason is because you've got the PurePerl sax parser 09:26 kados sec ... 09:26 tumer nop. Expat 09:27 kados run this: 09:27 kados #!/usr/bin/perl 09:27 kados use XML::SAX::ParserFactory; 09:27 kados $parser = XML::SAX::ParserFactory->parser(); 09:27 kados print $parser."\n"; 09:27 kados as a script on the command line 09:27 kados and tell me the output 09:27 kados Expat has probs too 09:28 kados what you need, is compatible versions of libxml2 and XML::LibXML 09:28 tumer all code turned into smileys on my screen i cannot read it 09:28 kados with that setup, on linux, I can handle anything 09:28 kados ahh 09:28 kados hang on 09:29 tumer you now that i posted a mail regarding expat long ago 09:29 kados http://liblime.com/public/parser.pl 09:29 tumer regarding problems on windows, lots of reading links 09:29 kados try running that script on windows 09:30 kados yep ... expat definitely has some probs 09:30 kados it doesn't work for me either 09:30 kados the only thing that I've been able to get working in all cases, is compatible versions of libxml2 and XML::LibXML 09:30 tumer whats gets on my nerves is this: 09:30 kados the 'compatible versions' thing is important 09:30 kados because there are quite a few incompatible versions 09:31 tumer on windows we have a small 13mb utility that converts any marc to utf8 iso8859 and back ,dublincore,xml, and many more reversibly 09:32 tumer and 350mb charset.pm is merely converts from marc8 to uthf8 with problems 09:32 kados heh 09:32 kados are you on the perl4lib mailing list? 09:32 tumer no 09:32 tumer iam not a perl onger 09:33 tumer monger 09:33 kados right 09:33 kados well ... it's where the MARC::* guys talk about MARC::* stuff 09:33 kados and recently i've been sending all kinds of messages about MARC::* 09:33 kados complaining, giving specific examples of problems, etc. 09:33 kados finally, i did manage to resolve the issues 09:34 kados tumer: what's the 13Mb utility? 09:34 tumer MarcEdit 09:34 kados ahh 09:34 tumer from oregon univ 09:34 kados I'd consider using a C library for the marc8->utf8 stuff 09:35 kados we could use Inline.pm to write a perl wrapper 09:35 tumer its aVB machine, callable from perl as well 09:35 kados if we could fine an open source library out there 09:35 kados what's a aVB machine? 09:35 tumer VisualBasic 09:36 tumer language that is 09:36 kados ahh 09:36 kados yea, don't think that'd fly with the koha dev group 09:36 kados for now, I think we're stuck with MARC::Charset 09:36 kados actually, it's not MARC::* that has probs 09:36 kados it's the underlying parser 09:36 tumer no thats why i did not mention it. ALL i am saying others did it 09:37 kados tumer: if you try installing libxml2 and XML::LibXML hopefully it won't wreak havoc on your combining characters 09:38 kados tumer: you can take a look at the archives of perl4lib: 09:38 kados http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl4lib 09:38 tumer do you remember the issue when searching with combininig chars? 09:38 tumer they show funny on the screen? 09:38 kados yes 09:39 tumer is it resolved? 09:39 kados I'll test and see 09:43 kados tumer: your turkish records use 90o instead of 090? 09:43 tumer yes 09:44 tumer you do not need my records 09:44 kados no? 09:44 tumer try doing a search on your records but replace normal e with say accented e 09:44 kados ahh, I don't know how to create such a letter on my keyboard 09:45 tumer the search works 09:45 tumer but the search term appears funny 09:45 kados that server isn't running libxml2 09:45 kados I haven't updated it yet 09:46 kados I'll try to do so today 09:48 tumer hmm accented characters accented e is Alt+0232 on my keyboard 09:49 kados ™ 09:49 kados ls 09:49 kados 09:49 kados ahhk 09:49 kados now I can't see anything :-) 09:49 tumer i can see some parts 09:52 kados tumer: can you point out a utf-8 combining chracter somewhere online so I can use it to test? 09:53 kados maybe here?: 09:53 kados http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/temp/combimarks.html 09:54 kados weird ... 09:54 tumer on line 0326 the last character s use that instaed of a normal s 09:55 kados now I'm getting 'the server is too busy' error when I search 09:56 tumer is the zebra down? 09:56 kados no 09:56 kados it has: 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [session] Starting session 2 from tcp:127.0.0.1 (pid=29910) 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [log] User perm for perm.anonymous: r 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [request] Auth none 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [request] Init OK - ID:81/81 Name:ZOOM-C/YAZ Version:1.70/2.1.18 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [log] ResultSet '1' 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [log][app2] zebra_register_open rw = 0 useshadow=0 p=0x80b88e0,n=,rp=(none) 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [log] profilePath=.:/usr/share/idzebra/tab/:/koha/zebradb/biblios/tab cwd=/koha/zebradb/biblios 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [log] user/system: 0/0 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [request] Search ERROR 125 1 1+0 RPN: @attrset Bib-1 @attr 2=102 @attr 5=1 @attr 6=3 @attr 3=1 @attr 4=1 @attr 1=1016 � 09:56 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [session] Connection closed by client 09:57 kados 10:56:04-30/05 zebrasrv(2) [log][app2] zebra_register_close p=0x80b88e0 09:57 kados I get a completely different response when I try a real search 09:57 kados instead of just that accented A 09:57 kados I'll tro 0326 09:57 kados try even 09:58 tumer well those characters i see are not defined in our sort-utf.chr 09:58 tumer but s is 09:58 kados ahh, that would expain it then 09:58 kados I get ? for s 09:59 kados you too? 09:59 tumer you mean at search? or the result 09:59 kados at result 09:59 kados when I copy/paste in the Ş (special S with tail) 10:00 kados but, libxml2 isn't installed, so I'll withold judgement for now :-) 10:01 tumer i tried and i get another character instead of s with cedilla 10:01 tumer not readable character 10:02 tumer did you realise that we had to talk about sort-utf file as well? 10:03 tumer do we have to define all available characters in this table? I had to do it with turkish chars 10:04 tumer and if that is the case whats the use of having Charset? 10:04 kados hmmm 10:04 tumer its as if writing char_decode again under a differnt name 10:04 kados tumer: you're a MARC21 library 10:04 kados tumer: as such, there are only two valid encodings for your records 10:04 tumer yes but all utf8 now 10:04 kados tumer: MARC8 and UTF-8 10:05 kados tumer: but if you download records from outside, you still need to get them in MARC-8 format 10:05 tumer we download marc8 but create utf8 10:05 kados tumer: and convert to UTF_8 10:05 tumer yes char_decode does that for us 10:05 kados we will always need a mechanism to convert from marc-8 to utf-8 10:06 tumer the current char_decode in biblio.pm (modified) always done that for us 10:06 kados but can you imagine how large char_decode will become? 10:06 kados every time a new language is added 10:06 kados it's better to use the codetables.xml file provided by LOC 10:07 kados which has a complete mapping already defined from marc-8 to utf-8 10:07 kados for all cases 10:07 tumer what i am saying is if we have to write it for zebra isnt it the same problem 10:07 kados no, we don't need to search marc-8 in zebra 10:07 kados just utf-8 10:07 kados internally, everything's utf-8 10:08 kados what's sort-utf file anyway, zebra's 'how to sort' chart? 10:08 tumer in zebra you have to define the alphabet you use how they sort and which maps to what base char 10:09 tumer in tabs folder we have a sort-something-utf.chr file 10:09 tumer which i committed with utf8 characters for turkish 10:10 tumer thats why you can search with s instead of s with cedilla to recah the same record. Like mysql does 10:10 tumer s/recah/reach 10:11 kados right 10:11 kados I guess I need to update my sort-something file 10:11 kados since i can't search on S with cedilla 10:11 tumer you should already have it 10:12 tumer can you point me tou your server i wanna do asearch with accented chars if possible 10:13 kados http://zoomopac.liblime.com/cgi-bin/koha/opac-catalogue-home.pl 10:14 tumer any term suggestions? 10:14 tumer english 10:15 kados book 10:16 tumer no it does not search on accented characters. 10:16 tumer unless you have some other sort-blabla its strange 10:20 kados I dont' think I do 10:20 kados it's got equivilent lines 10:20 kados with aa<withaccent> 10:20 kados weird 10:22 tumer and thtas the file used by zebraidx when indexing the records, ie in same folder as our record.abs 10:22 tumer oh another thing 10:22 kados it's in /koha/zebradb/biblios/tab 10:22 tumer default.idx 10:22 kados yea 10:23 kados it's in there too 10:23 tumer same as committed ie points to sort-- 10:23 kados also in /koha/etc/tab 10:24 kados yep, just copied from cvs 10:24 tumer veryy strange 10:25 tumer in sort file there are lines called equivalent 10:26 tumer with some accented characters equalling to unaccented forms 10:26 kados yep, in mine too 10:26 tumer they all work for me 10:27 tumer i noticed that i dont have accented e in there which i should add and reindex my zebra 10:27 kados i wonder if the accented chars aren't getting passed unharmed to zebra on my system 10:27 kados ie, maybe they're being mangled along the way 10:27 tumer but for you i am stunned 10:28 kados this worked when we set it up on dev-week 10:28 kados unless ... 10:28 kados maybe it has to actually have a database with the chars in it in order for the search to work 10:28 kados that sounds like something ID would do :-) 10:28 tumer no 10:28 kados and it would take us weeks to figure it out :-) 10:29 tumer well here is another thing about ID 10:29 tumer infact 2 10:29 tumer their new zebra 1.4 does not work. Im tired i did not bug them 10:30 tumer second say you index on additional authors or some other field 10:31 tumer and the records you entered did not have that field up to that day 10:31 tumer but you know you'll have them 10:31 kados sigh 10:31 tumer try and do a sort on taht field 10:31 tumer it actually crashes 10:31 kados tumer: well, I've paid for support, so they have to fix a reproducible bug within 10 days 10:32 paul at leas, we will know if it was worth the price ! 10:32 kados paul: right! 10:32 kados tumer: how can I reproduce it on my system? 10:33 tumer yes put a sort in your record.abs on afield that you know does not contain data yet 10:34 kados while zebra's running? 10:34 tumer no 10:34 tumer do this and reindex zebra 10:34 tumer then using yaz client do a search 10:34 tumer and a sort on that field 10:34 kados ok 10:35 kados lets go step by step here ... what field shall I try in record.abs? 10:35 kados how about a field that does not exist at all in the data 10:35 tumer which field you are sure doews not have data 10:35 kados field 0f0 10:35 tumer i donno your records 10:35 kados $a 10:36 kados tumer: how about this: 10:36 kados melm 0f0$a False:s 10:36 tumer just sec finding a bib1-att 10:36 kados tumer: added to record.abs ... do I also need to change another conf file? bib-1 or something? 10:38 tumer use melm 0f0$a Dewey-classification:s 10:38 kados in fact ... it won't even index I think 10:38 kados ok, I'll try that 10:38 kados now i re-index the records 10:39 kados indexing now 10:39 tumer do a search f book and then sort 1=13 i< 10:40 tumer 13 means dewey- classification 10:40 kados can you specify the RPN? I'm not up to speed on that yet 10:40 kados or is it just : 10:40 kados f book 10:40 kados sort 1=13 10:40 tumer sort 1=13 i< 10:41 kados Z> sort 1=13 i< 10:41 kados Received SortResponse: status=failure 10:41 kados Diagnostic message(s) from database: 10:41 kados [207] Cannot sort according to sequence -- v2 addinfo '' 10:41 kados Elapsed: 0.000427 10:41 kados is that the same as what you get? 10:42 tumer yes 10:42 kados in the zebra log i get: 10:42 kados 11:41:37-30/05 zebrasrv(1) [log] user/system: 0/0 10:42 kados 11:41:37-30/05 zebrasrv(1) [request] Sort ERROR 207 (1)->1 10:42 tumer but its a bug 10:42 kados why? 10:42 tumer if you have at least one record with taht data it stops 10:42 kados (i don't quite understand why it's a bug since there are no values to sort by) 10:43 kados it stops? 10:44 kados ahh, you mean it claims to have sorted correctly 10:44 kados doesn't throw the error 10:44 kados hmmm ... 10:44 tumer I want to be able to sort on fields which will have data later on even if they have null in then now not a database-error 10:45 kados how about a temporary solution 10:45 kados which is to create a single record with all values in it 10:46 kados I see what you mean though 10:46 kados is this a priority bug? 10:46 tumer kados: its more serious than you think 10:46 kados ahh, yea I can see it being a real problem 10:46 tumer is paul around? 10:46 kados especially for small collections 10:46 paul yep 10:47 tumer did you folow this 10:47 tumer whats your opinion 10:47 kados ok, I'll file a bug report 10:47 kados tumer: I'll cc your hotmail account 10:47 paul tumer: no, i didn't follow the thread 10:48 tumer the problem is if there is no data in the sort field zebra throws and error and does not even return the unsorted results 10:49 tumer and dont forget we have to pre-define all aour sort fields beforehand 10:50 kados tumer: was this something that was supposed to be fixed in 1.4? or is it a new bug we discovered? 10:50 tumer new thing 10:50 kados k 10:50 kados filing bug now 10:50 paul could we have a sort order that contains something for sure ? 10:51 tumer say i sort on title and subtitle 10:51 tumer but my records up until then did not have subtitles yet 10:52 tumer searching the records with sor order title,subtitle returns an error 10:52 tumer thats a stupid bug 10:53 tumer when a single record enters with subtitle error gone 10:59 tumer kados:for your bug report=> we are building the sort into our search we are not sorting after we receive the results 11:00 kados right 11:02 tumer do you wnat me to expand on that? 11:03 kados sure 11:03 tumer you searced: f book 11:03 tumer got results 11:04 tumer then did a sort 11:04 tumer got error 11:04 kados right, I get that 11:04 kados how can we write the whole thing in one go? 11:04 tumer my code does like mysql does 11:04 tumer find book sort something 11:04 kados lets do a specific example for the report 11:05 tumer so the records fetched once and sorted 11:05 kados lets sort by title first and then by 1=13 or whatever 11:05 kados in yaz-client 11:05 kados lets sort by title first and then by 1=13 or whatever 11:05 kados in yaz-client 11:05 tumer just a sec this server does not like irc much 11:06 tumer i donno how to do this with yaz client 11:06 tumer i think it was 7=13 11:07 tumer but my search code has it in zoom 11:07 kados how do we do two sorts? 11:07 tumer so asking for sorted records throws out an error and returns failiure 11:07 kados ie, first sort by title, then by author? 11:08 kados if possible, we should try to get a one-liner for the bug report 11:08 tumer two sorts 1=4 i< 1=13 i< 11:08 kados yea, that fails too 11:11 kados tumer: ok sending it off, cc to you 11:11 kados if you have more to add, cc me 11:11 tumer ok 11:12 kados sent 11:12 kados so, it should be fixed by June 10 :-) 11:12 kados amazing how that works :-) 11:14 kados tumer: any other bugs we can try and reproduce? 11:14 tumer well have used the lates zebra from snapshot or cvs? 11:15 tumer have you used i mean 11:15 kados ahh ... did we ever find the snapshot? 11:15 kados I'm running the debian package 11:15 kados lemme check the version 11:15 kados 1.3.34 11:16 kados is what I'm running 11:16 tumer good stable one 11:16 kados didn't we go looking for the latest snapshot and it didn't exist? 11:16 kados :-) 11:16 kados or did you eventually find it? 11:17 tumer the cvs did not exist indexdata.dk/taz has got a link to it now 11:17 kados cool 11:17 tumer not taz /yaz 11:17 kados yep 11:17 tumer well it does not even index now 11:19 kados what doesn't? 11:20 tumer zebraidx stopped working with 1.4 major bug i believe but since its still roduction did not report it 11:22 kados ?? 11:22 kados if you don't report it how will it ever get fixed ? :-) 11:22 kados well ... nevermind ... 11:22 tumer well tired of ID 11:22 kados what about 1.3.34 ... any bugs there? 11:23 kados yea, sorry about that 11:23 tumer i have been using 1.4 for the last month 11:23 kados don't know why, but a lot of folks have problems dealing with them 11:23 kados I haven't personally, but have heard many reports of problems 11:23 kados i can try installing 1.4 and reproduce a bug 11:24 kados do i need a new version of yaz? 11:24 tumer version 2.1.19 11:24 tumer same place has it 11:25 kados ok 11:25 kados hmmm ... 11:25 kados before I do this 11:25 kados are there any bugs in 1.3.34? 11:25 kados we should try to reproduce? 11:25 tumer not that i know of except the one i reported and they produced 1.3.35 11:26 tumer for windows 11:27 tumer you remember the bug we reported at dev-week? 11:27 kados the attribute=3 one? 11:27 kados (btw: did you recieve the message I forwarded to your hotmail sent by seb?) 11:27 kados (about that one) 11:27 tumer they corrected it and now i cannot even use 1.4 cause it does not even index 11:28 kados they corrected the attribute=3 one? 11:28 kados in 1.4? 11:28 tumer no the one about finding less records in 1.4 than in 1.3 11:29 tumer the one adam sent a reply about some rank thing 11:29 kados ahh ... I don't remember that one 11:29 tumer you read it to me 11:29 kados ahh ... 11:29 kados now I remember 11:29 tumer its on their zebralist 11:29 kados yea 11:30 kados well ... maybe we should stick with 1.3.34? 11:30 kados until 1.4 is more stable? 11:30 tumer yep 11:31 tumer 1.3.35 for me 11:31 kados right 11:31 paul_away bye bye & see you tomorrow 11:31 kados bye paul_away 11:31 tumer bye paul 11:31 kados so I'm going to go ahead and test edits and adds, etc. 11:31 kados I've updated cvs on my test box 11:31 kados to the latest dev_week 11:32 tumer k 11:33 tumer have to go now 11:33 kados heh 11:33 kados it forwards me to the search screen 11:33 tumer what does? 11:33 kados adding a new record 11:33 kados no results found 11:33 kados I assume that means it failed :-) 11:34 tumer let me check dev-week 11:34 kados nothing interesting in the apache log 11:35 kados doesn't look like zebra saw any activity 11:35 tumer and mysql? 11:35 kados dunno ... nothing in the logs 11:35 tumer by the way zconnauth has a $server in context.pm as well 11:36 kados ahh, maybe that's the prob 11:37 tumer that is the more complex one with user password etc. 11:38 kados hmmm ... 11:39 kados added $server = "biblioserver" but still nothing 11:39 kados no errors anywhere 11:39 kados I'll have to throw some warns in I suppose 11:39 tumer going back to search was strange anyway 11:39 kados so addbiblio.pl right? 11:40 kados or haven't you modified that at all 11:40 kados is everything changed in Biblio.pm? 11:40 tumer i did not change addbiblio.pl at all but everything in biblio.pl 11:40 kados ok 11:40 tumer addbiblio.pl is what it was there 11:42 kados could you explain briefly the order of operations? 11:43 kados is all the zebra stuff in the MARC* routines? 11:44 tumer addbiblio.pl calls for Newaddbiblio which i think calls MARCaddbiblio which adds a marc record to mysql and calls zebraop 11:44 kados hmmm 11:44 kados i do get this error: 11:44 kados DBD::mysql::st execute failed: called with 2 bind variables when 0 are needed at /koha/intranet/modules/C4/Search.pm line 687. 11:44 kados DBD::mysql::st fetchrow failed: fetch() without execute() at /koha/intranet/modules/C4/Search.pm line 735. 11:45 kados when I add a new item 11:45 kados new record I mean 11:45 kados and if I go: 11:45 kados warn "SERVER:".$server; 11:45 kados in sub zebraop in Biblio.pm 11:45 kados it never gets called 11:46 kados no warn shows up 11:47 tumer i'll have to set up a test version on server and try it i2ll come back 11:47 kados k 11:47 kados thanks for your work on this tumer