Time  Nick     Message
11:54 tumer    anyway more food for thought
11:53 tumer    the cataloger may change the order of subfields as tehy wish at biblio level
11:52 tumer     In KOHA though we can get away with having $a$x$z as one and $a$z$x as another authority
11:52 tumer    In KOHA though we can get away with having $a$x$z as one and $a$z$x as another authority
11:51 kados    excellent even
11:51 kados    excelletn
11:50 tumer    yep
11:50 kados    in that case, we're very close to being fully MARC21 standard compliant
11:50 tumer    That is now authority. Any modifications to the order of subfields is not permitted
11:50 kados    ahhh ... so that's the key
11:50 kados    are some real examples of unimarc and marc21 standard authorities and bibs that use them
11:49 tumer    So catalogers pulls together different authorities together and creates one authority record
11:49 kados    what I think we need
11:49 kados    I see ...
11:49 tumer    the different authorities of countries etc is at authority creation level not at biblio level
11:48 kados    interesting
11:48 tumer    any authority record that says $asomething  $xsomotherthing  $zcountry is another authority
11:47 kados    ok
11:47 tumer    that is one record of authority
11:46 tumer    which says $asomething $zcountry $xsomotherthing (notice $a$z$x order)
11:46 tumer    marc21 $asomething $zcountry $xsomotherthing links to one authority
11:46 kados    and in fact, I've had a hard time finding any decent overview of how it should work
11:45 kados    ok well I don't know for sure
11:45 kados    :-)
11:45 tumer    No
11:45 tumer    No
11:45 kados    $zcountry links to yet another
11:45 tumer    No
11:45 kados    $xSubsumthing links to another
11:45 kados    $Something links to one authority
11:44 kados    I think in MARC21
11:44 kados    eg  eg: $aSomething$xSubsumthing$zcountry
11:44 kados    oops
11:44 kados    eg can Something, Subsumthing and co
11:44 tumer    in hdls case a broaderterm authority
11:44 kados    but what I'm not sure of is how MARC21 treats linking between bib and auth record
11:44 kados    I understand the linking authorities
11:43 tumer    in my case a differnt language version
11:43 tumer    Those get displayed on the fly as a linking authority
11:43 tumer    That authority could be linked to other authorities
11:42 tumer    There is a direct link with biblio and authority record. But that authority record is filled from differnt authorities at cataloguing time
11:41 kados    without the intermediate meta authority
11:41 kados    though I thought there was just a direct link between the biblio subfields and the authority records
11:40 kados    could be ...
11:40 tumer    You have an authority for each subfield . Countries, Subjects, Subheadings. I think thats wat thomas said
11:39 tumer    Meta authority is whats described at the devel week I believe
11:38 tumer    my implemented method uses some part of this already
11:38 kados    so you're idea is to create a 'meta authority' that is linked to child auth records for certain fields?
11:37 tumer    but in authorities $x (calling subfield) gets filled by $a
11:37 tumer    except that in biblios $a gets filled by $a
11:37 tumer    every single subfield gets filled by another authority using the ... notation
11:36 tumer    This is not conventional but if we do not want to write lots of code
11:35 tumer    I have not implemented that part but plan is like filing biblios
11:34 kados    how can Something, Subsumthing and country all be linked to separate auth records?
11:34 kados    eg: $aSomething$xSubsumthing$zcountry
11:34 kados    :-)
11:34 kados    tumer: what confuses me is how to you link multiple authorities within a single MARC tag?
11:34 tumer    Ok lets strat again
11:33 kados    I'm here now
11:33 kados    sorry ... got a phone call
11:32 tumer    The filling of subfields from differnt authorities I did not commit as its still experimental
11:30 tumer    getiing you more confused?
11:30 tumer    You do not link those you just fill them from authority tables with ... appearing
11:29 tumer    which they are
11:29 tumer    within the authority record its similar to biblio record. $x you say authsubfields $z countries as if they are authorities as well
11:28 tumer    You just use multiple 750s for multiple linking
11:27 tumer    So I add the subfields as $a $x ato summary as well
11:26 kados    tumer: what confuses me is how to you link multiple authorities within a single MARC tag?
11:26 tumer    LC shows authorities as $aSomething$xSubsumthing$zcountry
11:26 kados    right
11:25 tumer    all user definable
11:25 tumer    $6 $8 or whatever is not hardcoded
11:25 tumer    its not hardcoded so hdl can use it for 500 if he likes
11:24 tumer    MARC21 uses 750 for that so I use 750
11:24 tumer    currenctly I can link as many authoriies as I like together
11:24 tumer    but we still save that as one record with the correct order od fubfields
11:23 tumer    an authority marc record will be filled like you suggested $x from somewher $z from countries etc.
11:22 kados    yea?
11:22 tumer    what I think of implementing in future
11:21 tumer    regarding authorities
11:21 kados    tumer: yep
11:20 tumer    kados are you around?
10:48 paul     I plan to do it in 2 weeks
10:48 paul     kados: I saw it, as well as the discussion on perl4lib, but could not give it a try.
10:45 pierrick kados, I've read it but not tested it yet
10:43 kados    did everyone see my mail about encoding?
10:43 kados    I haven't had a chance to test my newfound knowledge of XML::SAX on UNIMARC records yet
10:42 kados    but the UNIMARC encoding stuff is still untested
10:42 kados    we've resolved all of the encoding problems for MARC21 from MARC-8 to UTF-8 and back again ... and we have a plan for handling non-MARC8 data ...
10:39 paul     yes, & we could add it on export.pl as well. That could be a "marketing feature" : "yey, dude, Koha is XML compliant, it rocks"
10:39 kados    pierrick: to that export script
10:38 kados    pierrick: so adding MARCXML export is just a matter of a two line change
10:38 kados    pierrick: all our MARC stuff is handled by the MARC::Record suite
10:37 kados    it'll take two seconds :-)
10:37 kados    pierrick: let me write that real quick and commit
10:37 pierrick is that in the command line tool you coded?
10:37 pierrick kados, good for MARC XML
10:36 kados    pierrick: MARCXML too
10:36 kados    paul: yew, rel_2_2
10:36 pierrick so export in iso2709, nothing else?
10:35 paul     mmm... I missed this. it's on rel_2_2 ?
10:34 kados    I think there's also a command-line version that I committed
10:34 paul     yep
10:34 pierrick OK, that's what I have in my rel_2_2 installation
10:34 paul     filtering on export (on a branch / itemtype iirc) + possibility to export only X record, for testing purposes
10:33 pierrick paul, what kind of improvement were made by hdl for 2.4.0?
10:33 pierrick so Koha exports in iso2709?
10:32 pierrick *.mrc is for Marc record, right?
10:30 paul     improved by hdl for 2.4.0
10:30 paul     koha >> parameters >> export
10:30 paul     pierrick: yes
10:30 pierrick is it possible to export bib from Koha?
10:22 kados    (thomas is attending his father's funeral at the moment and won't be back for a week or so)
10:22 kados    (but I'm not 100% sure on this ... we'd have to ask Thomas )
10:22 tumer    hmm not at the moment no I do not have that
10:21 kados    I think this is why MARC21 doesn't use ids to link authority to bib but uses string matching instead :-)
10:21 kados    rather than a single authority record for $aGeorgia $xCodes $xAmmendments and revisions
10:21 kados    and only one for 'Georgia'
10:21 kados    and only one for 'Ammendments and revisions'
10:20 kados    so you only have one authority record for 'Codes'
10:20 kados    in MARC21 $a, $x, and $x could all be linked to separate authority records
10:20 tumer     say again?
10:20 kados    take that biblio field
10:20 kados    651 $aGeorgia $xCodes $xAmmendments and revisions
10:20 kados    for instance ...
10:19 kados    tumer: if I understand correctly, in MARC21 you can have multiple authority links within a single biblio field (tag)
10:19 tumer    this :-@ server
10:18 tumer    kados: yes I'm switching to that and this is part of that
10:18 kados    tumer: have you thought any more about the advantages of switching to a marc21-style authorities scheme?
10:18 pierrick so create, authority_links with fields : from, to, type
10:17 tumer    It links one authority to multiple other authorities
10:16 tumer    If a records links to more than one record I use this field more than once. I will not bother filling a field that I will not extract data from
10:16 pierrick tumer, you want to link an authority with another authority or with a biblio?
10:16 pierrick you want to link an authority with another authority or with a biblio?
10:15 pierrick for linking authorities
10:15 pierrick if you need it more than once, you have to create a specific table
10:15 tumer    In marc we use this multiple times just or adressing the subfield . So infact you may need any number of these
10:14 pierrick why do you say it won't be filled ?
10:13 tumer    I call it convenience field
10:13 tumer    this gives teh opprtunity of linking authority fieds on any subfield rather than hardcoding subfield number in code
10:12 pierrick tumer, what's the purpose of a useless field ?
10:12 tumer    pierric: I've implemented a field called linkid in authorities. That field will never get filled with anything. Is that ok with you or very unconventional.
10:08 paul     bye btoumi
10:08 btoumi   bye everybody
10:05 kados    pierrick: you're right
10:04 pierrick yes, but it's not the way we want it today, am I right?
10:04 paul     yep.
10:04 kados    but now that it's getting bigger we need to start doing things in a more universally accepted way
10:04 kados    because they pretty much knew the whole thing by heart
10:04 kados    yea, well back when koha was just chris a paul it wasn't a big deal
10:03 pierrick :-)
10:03 pierrick or modify the field name to "loanability"
10:03 kados    really what should have been done there is to rename the column :-)
10:03 kados    maybe ...
10:03 pierrick concerning items.notforloan, we should have added a field "notforloanreason" for example
10:03 kados    I completely understand how it has made the process of learning Koha from a development point of view, frustrating
10:02 pierrick So you understand why I consider using binaries encoding created inconsistency?
10:01 kados    exactly
10:01 pierrick kados, just as for "hidden" I suppose
10:01 kados    yep
10:01 pierrick first it's confusing because it's a negative variable, then you don't get what you expect
10:01 kados    but then we realized we needed more values for it
10:01 kados    originally it was a flag
10:01 kados    but it didn't start that way
10:01 kados    yep
10:00 pierrick ... and instead I find no, or many possibilities for yes
10:00 kados    yea, that's another one that's confusing
10:00 pierrick when I look at items.notforloan, I'm expecting yes or no, nothing else
09:59 pierrick it's a matter of consistency
09:59 pierrick because "hidden" is yes/no, "visibility" can mean what you want
09:59 pierrick and also if you want to keep the binary format, rename the field to "visibility"
09:58 kados    yep
09:58 pierrick if (not not ... and not ... and ...)
09:57 pierrick I've seen this everywhere in the reservation screen, it quickly becomes very confusing
09:57 tumer    pierick +
09:57 kados    yea, that makese sense
09:57 pierrick I would prefer having this kind of variable "visible" instead of "hidden"
09:57 kados    hehe
09:56 pierrick not hidden = not not visible = visible
09:56 pierrick hidden = not visible
09:56 pierrick another disturbing me... I think it's less readable to use negative variables
09:55 kyle     for now I acquiesce ; )
09:53 kados    you store the hierarchical relationships in the positions rather than code them in the scripts
09:53 kados    kyle: not just less code, less logic in the scripts ... more in the db
09:53 pierrick kados, I don't agree about "cleaner"
09:53 kados    kyle: it's a cleaner solution
09:52 kyle     less code.
09:52 kyle     I think you mean it's quicker to work with a binary encoding scheme.
09:52 kados    plus, the binary encoding scheme is already written
09:52 pierrick it's obvious for me Koha users don't have to understand the binary encoding :-)
09:52 kados    but if you're going to work on the visibility options, it's much easier to work with a binary encoding scheme than bunch of independent flags
09:51 kados    so for those who are actually using the system, they don't need to know how the encoding scheme works
09:51 kados    the interface is easy to use
09:51 kados    but my point is, underlying db is an encoding scheme
09:51 kyle     pierick++
09:50 kados    hehe
09:50 pierrick kados, that's why DNS exists ;-)
09:50 kyle     But I still beleive an emphasis on easy understanding is vital to the long-term health of the system.
09:50 kados    IP addresses are binary encoding schemes
09:49 kados    hehe
09:49 pierrick so I shouldn't since I always forgot and need to think about it... I never use "chmod 755", I use "chmod ug-x"
09:49 kados    binary encodings schemes are not black magic
09:48 kados    IMO anyone who can't understand linux permissions shouldn't be coding on Koha ;-)
09:48 pierrick kyle++++
09:48 kyle     but lack of easy understanding puts up barriers to entry which will limit the koha community.
09:48 kados    it's not about grokability, it's more about codeability
09:47 pierrick kados, I understand that the encoding is a great way to avoid modifying database structure, but it produces code harder to read (at least for poor minded people like me). So if we say we're hacker, we don't mind readability, OK for encoding
09:47 kyle     I'd have to throw my lot in with pierrick, I'd pick grokability over clever any day.
09:47 kados    pierrick: each interface has a range of visibility options
09:46 kados    pierrick: there are more than just 6 options here
09:46 kados    pierrick: that's too limiting ... and every time we implement a new encoding scheme we'll have to add a variable
09:45 pierrick what do you mean?
09:45 kados    tumer++
09:45 tumer    I will implement collapsed for opac at one point as well
09:45 pierrick (agree?)
09:45 pierrick tumer, you do not what ?
09:45 pierrick (and the same kind of function for the reverse)
09:44 tumer    pierrick:I do not
09:44 tumer    excited (fl)
09:44 pierrick OK, let's say I agree in condition you write a function my ($visible_in_opac, $visible_in_intranet, $visible_in_editor) = decode_hidden($hidden_value);
09:43 kados    tumer: should have it going with NPL's data today (I hope)
09:43 kados    tumer: I'm installing HEAD btw ...
09:43 kados    tumer++
09:43 tumer    its implemented like that (drop dowwn selections) no numbers for the user
09:43 kados    a well-designed binary encoding scheme can make things really nice to script
09:43 paul     the encoder/decoder "translate" binary into $visible_in_opac
09:42 kados    yep
09:42 paul     with some binary encoding/decoding to play with them easier
09:42 kados    so whoever is editing the frameworks manually shouldn't be bothered by the encoding scheme
09:42 paul     I want to add that the actual perm system inside koha works like this
09:42 kados    of course, for the user it should be completely auto-generated based on questions asked
09:42 paul     kados + for unix perms
09:42 paul     kados + for db easier
09:41 kados    imo if someone can understand unix permissions, they can easily understand this visibility flag
09:41 pierrick kados, you're right, but I think it's less important than readibility
09:40 kados    but hard-coding three new columns in the db means that if we want to add another visibility option we need to create a new column rather than just add a value to an existing column
09:40 paul     (/me will count + at the end & decide who he will vote for :-D )
09:39 paul     pierrick +
09:39 pierrick just think of maintainability
09:39 pierrick s/think/thing
09:39 pierrick it makes the think darker, I'm afraid
09:38 kados    in fact, in some ways it simplifies things
09:38 kados    and tumer's right that there's no advantage to having three columns over one
09:38 pierrick tumer, yes
09:38 kados    tumer: yes
09:38 tumer    kados:are you discussing what I've implemented with authorities?
09:38 kados    well ... but there are more cases than just a simple boolean flag
09:37 pierrick if (not $visible_in_opac)
09:37 kados    if ($hidden < 100) { it's invisible in the OPAC }
09:36 kados    we can go:
09:35 kados    011
09:35 kados    so given a visibility flag of:
09:35 kados    first value is opac, second is intranet, third is editor (say ... just for example)
09:35 kados    so for example, if we have an encoded scheme based on 3 values, just like unix permissions
09:34 kados    sure ...
09:34 pierrick e
09:34 pierrick kados, give me an exampl
09:34 paul     pierrick +
09:34 paul     kados ++
09:34 kados    and we want to be able to use < > = in the scripts
09:33 kados    because for instance, all of these visibility options are numeric
09:33 kados    but this is quite a different case
09:33 pierrick kados, obviously, this is stupid :-), don't you think?
09:33 kados    sure ... I can understand that ...
09:32 pierrick kados, if I wanted to make my point more obvious, I would say that we only need one column per table, having fields separated by pipes in the value : 12|pierrick|le gall
09:32 paul     yes, we saw this
09:32 tumer    hi paul my server keeps throwing me out
09:32 btoumi   hi tumer
09:31 paul     tumer is here for a few seconds ;-)
09:06 kados    pierrick: but I understand what you mean
09:06 kados    pierrick: I'm not sure I 100% agree on that specific point ...
09:03 pierrick such has "do not use encoded information in the database where it's useless" (I'm talking about "hidden" being a tinyint(3))
09:03 kyle     with an api in place, testing will become near trivial. writing a blackbox test suite would take only a day or two.
09:03 pierrick I will also talk about some coding practices...
09:02 kyle     indeed
09:02 kados    pierrick++
09:02 pierrick (when I'll work on it, I'll put them in the wiki)
09:02 kados    agreed ... so we can all work on them
09:02 pierrick and the coding rules whould be in the wiki for the moment
09:01 kyle     thanks.
09:01 kados    pierrick: I agree
09:01 kados    kyle: not on the wiki ...
09:01 pierrick kados, existing coding rules are only a start I think
09:01 kados    kyle: http://www.kohadocs.org/codingguidelines.html
09:01 kyle     where are the coding rules on the wiki?
09:01 pierrick (I wanted to work on it last week, but... no time)
09:01 kados    pierrick: we have coding rules, we need to expand them
09:01 kyle     I think the best way to do it will be to have volunteers take on "modules".
09:00 pierrick we have to set coding rules
09:00 pierrick kados, I think nobody will do it in a row
09:00 kados    current 3.0 roadmap ^
09:00 kados    http://wiki.koha.org/doku.php?id=en:development:roadmap3.0
09:00 kados    yep ... it's very important ... but as always, the question is, who will do it?
09:00 kyle     pierrick: indeed. I think unless we give koha a real api, it won't be able to get buch bigger without becoming unmaintainable.
08:59 pierrick we've discussed about it with chris also
08:59 pierrick kyle, I agree, this is why we said "stronger API" during devweek
08:59 kyle     excellent : )
08:59 kados    it's on the 3.0 roadmap :-)
08:59 kyle     kados: but it doesn't matter as long as it's in there.
08:59 kyle     kados: I just figured an alteration that large would get a new version number.
08:58 kados    sure, but we need not wait until 4.0 to do that
08:58 kyle     kados: I'm just thinking that modularizing the system is going to be very important to its health and viablility.
08:57 kados    kyle: we follow the linux kernel versioning model
08:57 kados    kyle: no ... we've thought about 3.2 ... but 4.0 would mean we did something major to the way the system works
08:56 kyle     kados: has any thought been put into koha 4.0?
08:56 paul     kados is becoming a true Perl Monger...
08:55 kyle     kados: I was thinking that.
08:55 kados    could be the start of a testing suite
08:55 kados    sweet ...
08:55 kyle     kados: yeah, I plan on writing a script that will perform some random checkouts, checkins, and perhaps some reserves.
08:54 kados    hehe
08:54 kados    hey tumer
08:54 kados    kyle: it's way overkill for Koha
08:53 kados    and it should dump usage info
08:53 kados    ./kill_evergreen.pl
08:53 kados    or just go:
08:53 kados    perldoc kill_evergreen.pl will give you usage, etc.
08:52 kyle     kados: I like the name : )
08:52 kados    kyle: http://liblime.com/public/kill_evergreen.pl
08:51 kyle     ok
08:51 kados    kyle: you can definitely take a look ... it might be helpful ... sec and I'll post it somewhere
08:50 kados    kyle: but PINES is expecting mad load on Evergreen ... to the tune of 1000-1500 simultanous connections
08:50 kyle     kados: do you think that it would be useful for me to see it before writing my own?
08:50 kados    kyle: I haven't written one for Koha, have for Evergreen though
08:49 kyle     kados: I need a program that will simulate daily patron activity on a demo server, and I was wondering if anyone had written one before I go and write it myself.
08:48 kyle     you are correct, sir : )
08:47 kados    hi johnb (john brice?)
08:30 kyle     later
08:30 kados    bbiab
08:30 kados    snack time
08:30 kados    heh :_)
08:30 kyle     I know, that's the problem ; \
08:30 kados    thing is, there is definitely more than one way to do it :-)
08:29 kados    yea, it could just be js on the circ page
08:29 kyle     hmmm....
08:29 kados    unless you just interupt the process if there's a question and she has to start over ...
08:29 kyle     The more I think about it, the less reason there is for this to be an extension, and more just a plain html page with javascript.
08:28 kados    and how to answer one
08:28 kados    but client-side has to know how to recieve a question
08:28 kados    yea, server-side asks
08:28 kyle     I think it might be easier for the client-side end to be "stupid" and for the server-side to ask such questions, but that's no big deal.
08:27 kados    kyle: and if it needed advice from the librarian it would prompt her
08:27 kados    kyle: yea, it would post each one individually
08:27 pierrick kados, thx
08:26 kados    pierrick: about 150K biblios, 300K items
08:26 pierrick kados, how many biblios in NPL ?
08:24 kyle     oh, and the perl CGI would first re-display everything to confirm it's correctness and stuff.
08:23 kyle     does that sound about right?
08:22 kyle     so the plugin would collect all checkins and checkouts with the neccessary infomration (date, time, patron, etc.), and when the system comes back on, the librarian would click a button that would POST all the info to a CGI perl prog that would integrate it into the main database>
08:21 kyle     excellent.
08:20 kyle     ok.
08:20 kados    XMLHttpRequest supports POST
08:20 kados    sure it is
08:20 kyle     I've been unable to find any information on that.
08:20 kyle     I'm not sure if it's possible to POST from javascript.
08:19 kyle     but I don't know it that's the best solution...
08:19 kyle     yes, I think I get it.
08:19 kados    kyle: (make sense?)
08:18 kados    kyle: (like dealing with check-out to a debarred patron for instance)
08:18 kados    kyle: use the same API, we may need to expand it a bit to handle new problems
08:18 kados    kyle: just post the stuff the same way the browser would normally ;-)
08:17 kyle     kados: how then? There is no way to access a database through firefox natively.
08:17 kados    kyle: for instance, there are still going to be questions the librarian should answer
08:17 kados    kyle: because the thing is, you still want the librarian to watch it
08:17 kados    kyle: it shouldn't be difficult to get that info back into the db
08:16 kados    btoumi++
08:16 kyle     indeed : )
08:16 btoumi   me i continu to bug correction of borrowers and arnaud is in holiday
08:16 kados    kyle: ok ... so bombs away :-)
08:16 kados    btoumi: ok ... so kyle will do it then ;-)
08:15 btoumi   no not at time
08:15 kados    btoumi: is SAN West currently working on this?
08:15 btoumi   ok
08:15 kados    btoumi: we're discussing how to implement an 'offline circulation' client for Koha
08:14 kyle     This is another application where such an interface would be useful.
08:13 kyle     I've been thinking about writing a soap interface for reports generation
08:13 kyle     this would be a much easier task if koha *were* split up into a set of services.
08:12 kyle     the harder part is getting that stored information back into the database.
08:12 kyle     It would be trivial to write a firefox extension that stores checkin's and checkout's
08:11 btoumi   :=)
08:11 btoumi   sorry i answer something when i understand all the discuss
08:11 kados    kyle: btoumi can speak to the status better than I :-)
08:10 kados    kyle: I know it was a requirement for SAN West at one point
08:10 kados    kyle: I haven't personally thought about it much
08:10 kados    kyle: right
08:10 kyle     I've got a few ideas rolling about in my head, and I just don't know what would be the just course of attack.
08:10 kados    btoumi: has that project been worked on yet?
08:09 kyle     I just wondered if there was a particular reason for that, or what.
08:09 kados    kyle: that was one idea ...
08:09 kyle     you mentioned it being a firefox extension.
08:09 btoumi   kados sorry
08:09 btoumi   hi koados
08:08 kados    btoumi: hi :-)
08:08 kados    good point :-)
08:08 btoumi   :=)
08:08 paul     ;-)
08:08 paul     I don't think so. but btoumi is around, ask him
08:07 kados    paul: has SAN West made any progress on this?
08:07 kados    kyle: sure ... it's called 'offline circ'
08:06 kyle     kados, I wanted to talk to you a bit about the fallback system for when an intranet terminal loses its connection to the koha server
08:05 kyle     hey paul
08:05 kyle     hey kados
08:05 paul     hey kyle
08:05 kados    hey kyle
07:48 paul     string matching : I think I understand too.
07:47 paul     kados : right for 1 link within a tag.
07:47 kados    I think I understand now why MARC21 does string matching :-)
07:45 kados    we can't have more than one link within a tag ... right?
07:45 kados    so the issue is that our links are based on a subfield within a tag
07:44 kados    hmmm
07:31 kados    but how to do this if every field has a single authority
07:30 kados    not just the heading
07:30 kados    and I assume when you link auth-> bib you want to grab all of the data
07:29 kados    well, in MARC21 it's still confiusing for me ... because it seems like some auth records have many fields in them
07:29 paul     in UNIMARC ...
07:29 paul     sorry
07:29 paul     in MARC21, 1 field in biblio means 1 authority
07:29 kados    yep ...
07:29 paul     it seems MARC21 differs from UNIMARC here.
07:29 kados    in MARC21 the above example could be 3 separate I think
07:28 kados    this must be what thd was pointing out
07:28 kados    too bad
07:28 kados    ahh ... too
07:28 paul     just 1
07:28 kados    would that be three separate authority records? or just one?
07:28 paul     it is a graphic bug, but Koha will report $a as well as $x if you have them in your authority recore
07:27 kados    that's a bib record
07:27 kados    651 $aGeorgia $xCodes $xAmmendments and revisions
07:27 kados    for example:
07:26 kados    or is it normal to have many links from biblio subfields to authority records?
07:26 kados    in current authorities, is it normal for an authority record to contain many tags/subfields but to only be linked to one bib subfield (the heading?)
07:26 paul     hi joshua/kados
07:25 kados    paul: got a quick question for you ...
07:25 pierrick morning kados
07:25 kados    morning all
07:23 btoumi   oui
07:22 pierrick btoumi, et dans un sig, le type de rue est important ? Je me demande bien la valeur ajoutée :-)
07:08 btoumi   systeme informatiion geographique
07:06 pierrick sig?
07:05 btoumi   ca va etre utiliser par un sig
07:01 pierrick (c'est une remarque naïve, je ne dis pas qu'il ne faut pas le faire)
07:00 pierrick alors en français: quel intérêt ?
06:59 btoumi   et si tu mais rien ca ne doit pas apparaitre sur le template
06:59 btoumi   par exemple avenue rue boulevard impasse ect..
06:59 btoumi   en francais c le type de voie
06:55 pierrick btoumi, I've seen the last addition of paul concerning roadtypes, can you explain me the purpose of it ?
04:44 btoumi   ok
04:44 paul     don't forget to commit it ;-)
04:43 btoumi   ok i've resolved probleme
04:34 paul     you're probably not the only one, but nobody tried yet!
04:32 btoumi   ok i find
04:30 btoumi   do u have the problem? it's strange that's i'm lonely
04:30 paul     sometimes hard to find where it is
04:30 paul     it's a problem with a missing } or )
04:29 btoumi   if somebody can help me ? i have a error message "Missing right curly or square bracket at" dans le fichier Accounts2.pm or i look for and i find nothing
03:55 btoumi   i need some help somebody can help me?
02:59 pierrick in the future, is it planned to optionnaly require a logon in the OPAC?
02:56 pierrick in a thesaurus, do we have specific relation "translation of" between two words ?
02:55 pierrick is it really a problem? a thesaurus is specific to a "champ lexical", so free would mean either '"libre" or "gratuit" depending on the thesaurus
02:55 btoumi   hi paul
02:54 paul     1 word in a language, 2 in the other
02:54 paul     gratuit => free
02:54 paul     libre => free
02:54 paul     the only caveat here is to deal with translations like :
02:53 paul     so you know what is a multi language thesaurus !
02:53 pierrick (I know what a thesaurus is, I know what multi languagee is)
02:53 pierrick does anybody know what a "multi language thesaurus" means?
02:34 btoumi   kool
02:34 ToinS    fine
02:32 btoumi   how are u?
02:32 btoumi   hi antoine
02:31 ToinS    hi bruno
02:27 btoumi   hi pierrick
02:27 pierrick hi bruno
02:26 btoumi   hi everybody
02:14 pierrick hello paul
02:13 paul     hello pierrick
02:13 ToinS    hello pierrick
02:13 pierrick hi ToinS
02:00 chris    hmm when did dewey learn chinese
01:59 dewey    niihau, osmoze
01:59 osmoze   hello
01:39 pierrick hi chris
01:37 chris    morning pierrick
20:53 tumer    hdl still awake?
20:49 tumer    talking about complexity of zebra. Now tackling with async mode. its err difficult
19:29 kados    night
19:29 hdl      night kados
19:29 chris    night
19:29 hdl      for sure.
19:29 kados    I'm gonna sign off
19:29 kados    all right guys
19:28 chris    heh
19:28 kados    not sure you'll want to mention that though :-)
19:28 kados    hdl: the other thing Zebra does is greatly increase the complexity of setting up and maintaing Koha ... :-)
19:28 kados    yup
19:28 chris    speed
19:27 chris    yep
19:27 kados    searches would take forever
19:27 kados    I took a look once but you'd have to so do many self joins
19:27 kados    yea ... in fact, I'm not sure boolean would be practical in rel22
19:23 chris    plus its already written :-)
19:23 chris    speed
19:23 chris    thats the main compelling reason
19:22 chris    it doesnt do anything we cant do with perl and sql .. but it does it a hell of a lot faster than we could
19:22 kados    hdl: as we dont' currently have that
19:22 kados    hdl: full boolean is important too
19:21 hdl      thanks
19:21 hdl      ok.
19:20 chris    then son
19:20 chris    then song
19:20 chris    it will search songs
19:20 chris    Songs
19:20 chris    and i search on
19:20 chris    if i set it up
19:20 chris    ill give you an example
19:20 dewey    hdl: excuse me?
19:20 hdl      dewey translate into french stemming
19:19 chris    Searching supports a powerful combination of boolean queries as well as relevance-ranking (free-text) queries. Truncation, masking, full regular expression matching and "approximate matching" (eg. spelling mistakes) are all handled.
19:18 chris    stemming and proximity searching
19:18 chris    stemming
19:18 hdl      Is taht all ?
19:17 hdl      Z3950 full support
19:17 chris    proximity search
19:17 hdl      Multi format (Dublin-Core, BiblioML)
19:17 chris    yep
19:17 hdl      Boolean search
19:17 hdl      Full text index
19:17 hdl      I know
19:17 hdl      Can you tell me about zebra features ?
19:16 chris    do you have much left to do?
19:16 hdl      yes.
19:16 chris    :( is that what you are doing your presentation with?
19:16 hdl      OpenOffice keeps crashing :/
19:15 chris    wb hdl
18:59 chris    anything i can help with?
18:55 chris    ahhh, i hope it is going well
18:54 chris    what are you doing awake?
18:54 chris    hi hdl
18:53 hdl      hi chris
16:48 hdl      kados ?
16:14 kados    night all
16:14 kados    I'm gonna head out for the day
16:13 kados    well ... i actually asked one of our consultants, he's gonna pass it on to a MARC expert :-)
15:20 owen     Any luck kados?
14:03 kados    hehe
14:02 owen     The trouble with asking me is that I've never worked with authorities
14:01 kados    hdl: how does it work in unimarc?
14:01 kados    hdl: you've been working on authorities lately for subjects, right?
14:01 kados    would that be three separate authorities or just one?
14:00 kados    General subdivision: Amendments and revisions
14:00 kados    General subdivision: Codes
14:00 kados    Geographic name: Georgia
14:00 kados    say you've got the following:
14:00 kados    I'm trying to figure out for instance, how authorities control should work for MARC
14:00 owen     I can't help you much with that :)
13:59 kados    it seems like an arbitrary and contradictory framework for a taxonomy
13:59 kados    the bottom line is that I really don't understand how MARC subjects are supposed to work
13:58 kados    yea ... I'm trying to figure out how to ask it
13:56 kados    owen: I have a question about subjects :-)
13:56 owen     yes
13:56 kados    owen: you around?
13:09 kados    hdl: I have a quick authorities question
13:09 kados    hdl: still around?