Time Nick Message 11:23 owen Something to be taken up with the developers... 11:12 thd owen: I know there may be a more efficient way to solve your immediate problem with less effort but this standards compliant method would be reusable even for permanent records and other institutions where people go crazy over MARC standards :) 11:08 thd owen: 245 $a , 772 $a, and much else could have been copied by a plugin from the linked record 11:08 owen Sounds great in theory :) 11:06 thd owen: In the example above, 772 $w is the control number for the linked record on your system and 245 $n has been added for the issue. 11:04 thd http://www.itsmarc.com/crs/Bib1390.htm 11:03 thd 772 1#$7unas$aPost boy (London, England)$w(OCoLC)1234567 11:03 thd 245 04$aThe Post boy.$nNumb. 2436, from Thursday December 21 to Saturday December 23, 1710. 11:01 thd The linking fields are 76X - 79X. I am trying to fetch an example for you but my system is thrashing a bit. 10:55 thd This would be a MARC21 compliant solution :) 10:54 thd So you would get all the bibliographic information that was the same for every issue of your serial copied from the other record and you would add the issue and holdings data. 10:52 thd A well designed 77X plugin should copy required information from a linked record and then you would only need to modify a few subfields in 3 or 4 fields 10:51 owen Can you elaborate? 10:50 thd I imagine there is some functionality one could borrow from the UNIMARC side 10:49 thd owen: the ideal way to address the disposable serials issue is with a 772 linking field 10:48 owen yes 10:48 thd owen: are you present? 10:45 thd kados: Do you mean an additional performance hit for logging even if batched? 10:45 kados thd: maybe for logging too ... but either way you still have some performance hit 10:44 kados thd: I think batch processing is a good idea 10:44 thd I saw a suggestion about batch processing cataloguing on the koha or koha-dev list recently 10:42 thd Why can't you work around the logging performance issue with batch processing? 10:41 kados yep ... which there's no way we can! 10:41 thd mapping is the key to interoperable systems when you cannot force everyone to adopt one standard 10:41 kados agreed 10:40 thd s/their/there 10:40 thd kados: I love mapping, although, their is a bit of unpleasantness about most such tasks 10:39 kados yep ... we can easily do that with yaz-proxy 10:39 thd I was thinking more of the issue of converting queries against the catalgoue to queries against the other outside resources which are mostly z39.50 10:38 kados and it's not like it's hard ... index data has already done the hard part 10:38 kados I'd rather be way ahead of the pack 10:38 kados it will take a few years 10:37 kados but that's the way of things 10:37 thd Very forward thinking :) 10:37 kados CQL may not be widely adopted 10:37 kados in addition to Z39.50 10:37 kados well I'm going to propose we use Zebra's SRW functionality to expose our records for that protocol 10:36 thd CQL is designed for SRW which has very few targets currently relative to Z39.50 10:36 kados and I like '+stephenson -neal' 10:35 kados and "once upon a time" phrase searching 10:35 kados but also allow author:neal stephenson 10:35 kados I'm thinking we use CQL for sure 10:35 kados I agree 10:35 thd Google does not necessarily have the ideal solution 10:34 kados yep ... so we have both 10:34 thd A form allows you to change the underlying syntax without bothering the user about what the syntax actually is 10:34 kados like google 10:34 kados from web search engines 10:33 kados we're taking our cue about future directions in searching 10:33 kados but the idea is 10:33 kados thus we have 'simple' and 'advanced' search pages 10:33 kados yep 10:32 thd Both methods should be provided for 10:32 kados is to allow direct syntax entry into a single form 10:32 kados thd: but the direction that most engines are moving in 10:32 thd Therefore, the user does not have to learn the syntax, only the form 10:32 kados thd: at least for the advanced page 10:31 kados thd: hmmm ... maybe ... 10:31 thd CQL or whatever search syntax is used should be wrapped in a form 10:30 kados thd: what's up 10:30 kados thd: yep 10:29 thd kados: are you still present? 09:28 hdl But what you said answered my question. 09:28 hdl should I hide Log management in C4 modules, or leave it to the top level. 09:28 kados hdl: (though it would be useful to see _who_ deleted something they shouhldn't have ;-)) 09:28 kados hdl: because it may slow down adding/deleting things at NPL ;-) 09:28 kados hdl: I think that Log.pm (if I understand what it is) should only be used if the library wants to use it 09:27 kados hdl: I still don't understand the question 09:26 hdl kados : yes I read it. 09:26 hdl i.e. same operation logging and adding/editing/deleting.... Which would lead to log.pm called in Biblio.pm for instance. 09:26 hdl No I mean : as soon as you have a database mod, you are ensured that dataentry is done to the table. 09:24 kados hdl: did you see my recent post about paul and your plans for multiple branch support? 09:24 kados because it will likely impact performance 09:23 kados I think there should be a system preference for turning the Log on and off 09:23 kados and by 'atomic' do you mean 'automatic;? 09:23 hdl ok. I am doing a Log.pm. and use it. 09:23 kados maybe? ... we can discuss this later 09:22 kados and we can put the Stats.pm stuff in there eventually 09:22 hdl I take it. 09:22 hdl ok. 09:22 kados how about Log.pm? 09:22 hdl And We should be DBM independant. 09:21 hdl But I don't know... 09:21 kados inright 09:21 hdl Maybe Mysql has a log facility. 09:21 hdl I insert a new line in the database. 09:20 hdl Yes and no. Its purpose is not stats, but monitor. 09:20 kados what is this functionality called in SQL? 09:20 kados hmmm ... that sounds very similar to the statistics stuff 09:20 hdl Which name in this case. 09:19 hdl timestamp, userid, module, action and parameters are logged 09:19 kados that is used specifically for monitoring the system 09:19 kados maybe we need a new module 09:19 kados I'm not sure about which module it should be coded in .. 09:19 hdl In a new table : action_logs 09:18 hdl Yes. 09:18 kados so what you're proposing is a way to keep track of modifications (adding and deleting) of records in Koha? 09:18 hdl s/ewo/two/ 09:17 hdl disctinct. 09:17 kados hmmm ... 09:17 hdl Or do you prefer the ewo operations to be disticnt. 09:17 hdl you also added a logentry 09:17 hdl That is, as soon as You have added a biblio. 09:16 hdl Do we want these operations to be atomic ? 09:16 hdl Second question that goes along is : 09:16 hdl First question is : Where do things should be commited ? i.e. In C4::Miantainance, as I previously did, or in C4::Koha, or else ??? 09:15 kados ok ... what does that mean exactly 09:14 hdl We are trying to make a sort of base modifications watch. 09:14 kados sure 09:14 hdl I have a question : 09:14 kados just me musing about query syntax ;-) 09:14 hdl ok. 09:14 kados don't think so ;-) 09:14 kados hi hdl 09:14 hdl Have I missed sthg ? 09:13 hdl hi kados 08:41 owen I think we need to look at how to support Google-style queries, with quotes deliniating phrases at the very least 08:32 kados to perform the actual queries on the index 08:31 kados I'm still not clear on how to use CQL with Zebra 08:31 kados and use CQL in the background for the server interactions 08:30 kados so maybe our objective is to support multiple syntax types for input 08:30 kados as is - and + 08:29 kados I do agree with MJ that the use of : as a marker is nice 08:28 kados the nice thing about CQL is the learning curve for the actual queries isn't that steep 08:26 kados or 'intitle:koha site:liblime.com' 08:26 kados like how many folks know that they can do 'inurl:liblime.com koha' in a google search? 08:26 kados with any advanced search syntax there is some learning curve 08:25 kados the thing is 08:25 kados and of course CQL will accept straight keywords with no qualifiers 08:24 kados or 'title=cryptonomicon' 08:24 kados patron's won't have a hard time doing 'author=neal stephenson' 08:24 kados but that's not actually true 08:24 kados yea 08:24 owen The last time it was discussed people were distracted by the idea that the patrons would have to learn it to be able to do a search. 08:24 kados but when you dive into it it's fairly straightforward 08:23 kados because the site is fairly academic 08:23 kados I think folks have been intimidated by it 08:23 kados http://www.loc.gov/z3950/agency/zing/cql/ 08:23 kados I've been looking at CQL a bit more 08:23 kados yes to the first no to the second 08:22 owen kados: like a standard contruction syntax that will define how ANDs and ORs etc. translate to SQL? 08:12 kados I think we need to adopt a syntax for searches 08:10 kados I can imagine ;-) 08:10 owen It's a tough process. It's sometimes hard to decide what should stay in and what shouldn't 08:10 kados yep ... looks very nice 08:09 owen I've got a stripped-down stylesheet attached, just to make it easier on the eyes. 08:09 kados very nice 08:09 owen I've got most of the member pages done 08:08 owen That's what's on 101 right now 08:08 kados sweet 08:08 owen I've been working on the programmer templates 08:07 owen Hi kados 08:07 kados morning owen 01:08 Genji gone now though. 00:26 Genji thd: yup 21:11 thd Genji: are you there? 16:59 thd Ryanbisd, now disconnected, needs to change everything in the items table to 852 16:59 tim I guess I'm outta here for the day. Thanks again. 16:57 tim I just looked at the records that Ryanbisd showed us a while back and it looks like all of his item info is in 852. 16:57 thd tim: :) 16:56 tim thd: Thanks for the help 16:56 thd Ryanbisd: I understand the error now 16:52 Ryanbisd if thats the only error I have.. .would it really matter? 16:52 Ryanbisd i changed it back to 952 16:51 owen I don't know 16:51 thd owen: Is there a setting that must also be changed in parallel for changing the default MARC field and subfield value for items.barcode? 16:50 Ryanbisd because I cant have an itemtype set to 800's 16:50 Ryanbisd i put it in the 'search also' box 16:49 thd Ryanbisd changed the barcode setting in items.barcode form 952 $p to 852 $p. 16:48 Ryanbisd go down to the section P... and see if that will work 16:48 Ryanbisd pw is temp123 16:48 Ryanbisd username is kohaadmin 16:47 Ryanbisd http://lib-intra.burlesonisd.net/cgi-bin/koha/admin/marc_subfields_structure.pl?op=add_form&tagfield=952&frameworkcode= 16:47 Ryanbisd no. in my records its set to 852p 16:47 tim So that's where the info is in your records? 16:47 Ryanbisd but, under the 952p I have it set to also look in 852p 16:47 owen we have item fields mapped to 956: homebranch (b), holdingbranch (d), barcode (p), price (r), dateaccessioned (v), notforloan (y) and itemnumber (u) 16:46 Ryanbisd I have it set in the 900's now.. 16:46 tim Ryanbisd: do you mean all of your copy info is set to the 900's or the Koha defaults are set to the 900's? 16:46 Ryanbisd right? 16:46 Ryanbisd under marc subfield structure 16:43 Ryanbisd thereis... I think i remember seeing it.. 16:43 Ryanbisd is there anyway that I can have my barcode set to a 900 field, but read from an 800? 16:42 tim Ryanbisd: I had the same problem. I had to move or copy infromation from field to field to get things set right. 16:41 Ryanbisd but all the items are set to 900's 16:41 Ryanbisd because my barcode is 852p 16:41 Ryanbisd im getting that error, but I dont know what I am susposed to do. 16:40 Ryanbisd 16:40 Ryanbisd and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab 16:40 Ryanbisd be mapped to the same tag, 16:40 Ryanbisd item fields ALL items fields MUST : 16:40 owen I'm not sure what you mean, Ryanbisd 16:39 thd tim: http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/vhosts/examples.html 16:38 Ryanbisd owen: I have to define a value for every feild in the items tag? 16:37 Ryanbisd cool.. 16:37 thd Ryanbisd: To view the records yourself you could exprt them as text files with MARC Magician or try http://marcpm.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/converter.cgi . 16:36 owen The "10 (items)" refers to the item edit screen 16:36 owen The tabs are in the MARC edit screen 16:36 Ryanbisd and what is the 10 (items) field? 16:35 Ryanbisd what "tab" is it talking about? 16:35 Ryanbisd 16:35 Ryanbisd and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab 16:35 Ryanbisd be mapped to the same tag, 16:35 Ryanbisd item fields ALL items fields MUST : 16:35 thd tim: virtual hosts can do either. 16:34 tim thd: I'll look into that more. 16:34 thd tim: I have not upgraded yet because of compatiblity issues with other software for any system I have. 16:34 Ryanbisd how do you view them to see that information? 16:34 tim thd: I was thinking the virtusl host thing only did stuff like koha.library.org instead of www.library.org/koha/ like I was trying to do. 16:33 tim thd: I'm using apache 2. 16:33 thd Ryanbisd: If your information is unchanged since yesterday, then your barcodes certainly were in 852 $p 16:32 thd tim: If you only have an IP address for Apache to work with then you need to differentialte virtual hosts by port number in Apache 1.2 16:30 thd tim: mixing an IP address and a directory name does not work with Apache 1.x virtual hosts. 16:29 thd tim: One thing that does not work in Apache 1.x is a virtual host where \d = some number you have something like \d\d\d\d.\d\d\d\d.\d\d\d\d.\d\d\d\d/opac 16:28 Ryanbisd www.bsaclaims.com/~ryan/marctest.001 16:27 Ryanbisd rach, can you look at a sample of my marc records and see if my barcode is 852$p? 16:26 thd tim: virtual hosts are used for subdirectory mappings for what you want, although, symlinks could have the same effect. 16:23 thd Ryanbisd: Remember that 900a does not exist in the default MARC framework you have to create that yourself unless you remap its value before importing. 16:23 tim thd: No problem. I was just checking to see if anyone could suggest a way to make Koha load from a subdirectory instead of through a port or virtual host. 16:21 Ryanbisd and the call number is at 900a 16:21 Ryanbisd see, I was told that my barcodes in the imported MR are at 852p 16:21 thd tim: I do not understand the details of your configuration well enough to give you a good suggestion about how to set up external access on your own. I would not want to suggest something that might redirect services from your production system. 16:21 rach yep 16:20 Ryanbisd the ones im importing 16:20 Ryanbisd ohh... from my old marc records 16:20 rach then I think you need to make sure you're mapping the itemtpyes from any existing data to that field 16:20 rach yep - so you need one itemtype setup 16:19 Ryanbisd 16:19 Ryanbisd and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab 16:19 Ryanbisd be mapped to the same tag, 16:19 Ryanbisd item fields ALL items fields MUST : 16:19 Ryanbisd ad its this last one 16:18 rach sometimes it's the simple things that trip you up 16:18 rach it should match the ones in your data :-) 16:18 Ryanbisd d@mn.. i feel like a retard 16:18 rach yep 16:18 Ryanbisd so like, I define Book... or Video 16:17 Ryanbisd doh... stupid me.. 16:17 rach so "neither" 16:17 rach to get rid of that particular message, I'd set one up in the itemtypes prevferences bit 16:17 thd Ryanbisd: You have to create at least one item type. That should be part of the default install but is not. 16:16 Ryanbisd is that in links koha Marc DB or in biblo framework? 16:16 Ryanbisd I dont think so 16:16 thd rach: no or that message would not be returning 16:16 Ryanbisd no.. 16:15 rach do you have any itemtypes set up? 16:15 Ryanbisd I keep getting this msg when i do marc check 16:15 Ryanbisd itemtypes table empty the itemtypes table is empty. It must contain at least 1 value 16:15 Ryanbisd 16:15 Ryanbisd and they must all be in the 10 (items) tab 16:15 Ryanbisd be mapped to the same tag, 16:15 Ryanbisd item fields ALL items fields MUST : 16:14 tim Them are the ISP folks who do our DNS. 16:14 thd tim: Who is 'them'? 16:13 tim I'll probably do that anyway. I was trying to think of ways to make it so I don't have to have someone else do something before I get it to work, but I'm sure the people who deal with it will handle things pretty quick. 16:12 tim If I'm going to bother registering a domain name I'll just add a virtual name and have them set that up on our DNS. 16:07 thd tim: you could register a domain name for testing purposes or just use the external IP address for the system with port forwarding. 16:06 tim It's just an internal IP for now. 16:05 tim No. It won't till it's closer to ready. 16:05 thd tim: Does server that you are testing Koha on have domain name services directed at its IP address?? 16:04 tim I don't have everything I need in yet and every time I test something I find a mistake in what I have so far. 15:58 Ryanbisd what stage are you at, and how long do you think the conversion will take total? 15:58 Ryanbisd just wondering 15:58 Ryanbisd cool... 15:57 tim I'm implimentinng Koha in our library. 15:57 tim The current one is a turnkey thing with limeted acdess. 15:57 Ryanbisd tim: do you work for katipo, or are you implimenting koha also? 15:56 tim Or at least I do on the one we'll be using when we start running Koha. 15:55 tim Yeah, I do. 15:53 thd time: Do you not have access to the Apache configuration files on that server? 15:47 tim Yeah 15:47 thd tim: Do you run your own server for the outside now? 15:13 tim That's ok for the intranet, but we want people to be able to access the opac from outside and we don't manage our own DNS. 15:12 tim thd: So far I'm just finding how to put them on different ports like I already have and use virtual hosts, but that looks like it would require DNS changes for people to access it. 14:48 thd s/named/name 14:48 thd tim: check the documentation for your version of Apache under the virtual hosts section. Study the examples page. You want a named based virtual host. 14:36 tim Of course that doesn't mean I'll figure it out. :) 14:36 tim I just loaded the apache docs. Shoulda done that before I asked. 14:35 shaun yes - I have the answers, right here, but kados will give you a less hacky solution no doubt 14:35 tim I thought you were doing something like http://search.library.org 14:35 owen Joshua (kados) has set it up for us. 14:34 owen Tim, you might want to ask that on the Koha list, because I know it can be done. 14:32 tim and mor important /opac or /search or something like that. 14:32 tim Does anyone here know how I could get it so I can use something like http://www.library.org/intranet instead of http://www.library.org:8080 ? 13:19 Ryanbisd we are at a very early stage in the koha development here..... so we are learning as we go. 13:19 Ryanbisd cool, I will try that then....