Time Nick Message 06:01 fridolin hi there 07:08 reiveune hello 07:21 alex_a Bonjour 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: Update DBIC schema <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4851e10119226c114b34235d8ba54eaf99f4a6c3> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: DBRev 21.12.00.009 <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4962a4395df16d475ee6dcc6f7f429825ea2c76b> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29704: (RM follow-up) Fix typo sned send <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=9b9417ca136fc95d3ee4dfaa7010fee70f24b6ee> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29884: Run missing test in api/v1/patrons.t <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=dafdfe32325c8185f66bdcedbac12750572bb8e4> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29820: Set paging option using boolean instead of string <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=ead3c624b6722c824b832db4ff061b16c727cfef> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: Remove TODOs <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=05ead115bb9c5ad6119b85f0bb14237f761dbf62> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18540: Update MARC21 biblio XSL file <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=ae91a0b5db0024876e230106118b147bbe81af27> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18540: (QA follow-up) Only mention index_sort_title if defined <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=75514a85c554840712057553cace9839449fa01f> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29812: Add missing use C4::Context in Koha::Token <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=eb2136cfcc4d5df973a9b481d77a816952891dca> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29758: Get rid of warning in members/boraccount.pl <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=34248e5805e03808e4408b8ae772a8175c9d1e3c> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29704: Add a triggered option to holds_reminder.pl <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=d1a701573e9005fdfb770a40b3a04c4fcc0029b6> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29464: Make GET /acquisitions/orders honour sorting <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=774f28761773b5ffdf6e36761d07046977e4f1a7> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29464: Regression tests <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=cb23615ad5e0824c54b64aca4112cdf8b878eabc> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29498: Remove usage of deprecated Mojolicious::Routes::Route::detour <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=40da37caa66840280f421d994e56ecdf6eb446cf> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29474: Remove one layer of indendation by adding if check in the begginning <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=c96fee3840ca68508ced69ca9db990cefe2a8c41> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29474: Decouple renewal checks of auto-renewed issues from non-autorenewed <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=6f7554754063518cc3399a45b2aaa72d520c8326> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29474: Return too_soon before checking renewals <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=6ceeafab7fc3a21c9986c08089cf51ba6bb7370a> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: Database revision <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=051aafb896de51d4b66efda9616bfdde4459aadb> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29336: Identify the fields with wrong length (or name) first <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d5332deb691488000ef92baed78bee442b0c564> 07:22 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18540: Handle indexing sort title only when needed <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=78d403ca3db8e528f9d6c0635d9eabc7ec79ee92> 07:35 * fridolin feeding master :D 07:57 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_CPAN build #514: STILL UNSTABLE in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D11_CPAN/514/ 08:06 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U21 build #70: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U21/70/ 08:14 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #283: STILL UNSTABLE in 50 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U20/283/ 08:22 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #729: STILL UNSTABLE in 59 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D11_My8/729/ 08:28 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #511: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 3 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D10/511/ 08:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #1855: STILL UNSTABLE in 38 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D9/1855/ 08:47 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D12 build #60: STILL UNSTABLE in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D12/60/ 08:47 cait1 Frido is on a roll :) 08:49 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master build #1891: STILL UNSTABLE in 1 hr 25 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master/1891/ 09:09 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #358: STILL UNSTABLE in 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U_Stable/358/ 09:10 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29495: Fix TestBuilder.t <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=20366164af813dde564b5f9fba410408ff66b39a> 09:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_MDB_Latest build #773: STILL UNSTABLE in 58 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D11_MDB_Latest/773/ 09:31 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #1856: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D9/1856/ 09:43 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #359: STILL UNSTABLE in 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U_Stable/359/ 10:14 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 10:14 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #1857: FIXED in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D9/1857/ 10:17 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 10:17 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #284: FIXED in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U20/284/ 10:21 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 10:21 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #360: FIXED in 1 hr 0 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U_Stable/360/ 10:24 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 10:24 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #730: FIXED in 53 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D11_My8/730/ 10:24 ashimema morning 10:25 fridolin _o/ 10:29 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 10:30 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U21 build #71: FIXED in 1 hr 16 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U21/71/ 10:30 fridolin ouf ;) 10:30 ashimema nice one 10:30 ashimema how are we today frido 10:35 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 10:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_CPAN build #515: FIXED in 1 hr 21 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D11_CPAN/515/ 10:38 ashimema sorry fridolin.. pilling more into your queue this morning between my meetings 10:51 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 10:51 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #512: FIXED in 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D10/512/ 10:54 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 10:54 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D12 build #61: FIXED in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D12/61/ 11:20 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 11:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_MDB_Latest build #774: FIXED in 59 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D11_MDB_Latest/774/ 11:21 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master build #1892: STILL UNSTABLE in 46 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master/1892/ 11:25 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #361: SUCCESS in 33 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U_Stable/361/ 11:31 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D12 build #62: SUCCESS in 1 hr 1 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D12/62/ 11:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #285: SUCCESS in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U20/285/ 12:08 oleonard o/ 12:37 kidclamp \o 12:37 marcelr hi #koha 12:37 Joubu ~o~ 12:38 kidclamp Joubu is dancing....or he is a bat 12:38 ashimema lol 12:38 marcelr hi kidclamp ashimema ` 12:39 kidclamp hi marcelr 13:17 marcelr @later tell oleonard left a question for you on bug 29458; please check? 13:17 huginn marcelr: The operation succeeded. 13:18 oleonard Hi marcelr 13:18 marcelr hi oleonard 13:18 * oleonard will look 13:18 marcelr thx 13:58 oleonard marcelr: That bug makes me wonder if we couldn't use an include file for the login form 13:59 marcelr ok 13:59 marcelr what i did was a first step in more consistency 13:59 oleonard That's not a criticism of your patches, I'm just wondering if you'd considered that 14:00 marcelr there are subtle differences 14:00 ashimema hi 14:00 marcelr especially for layout and so 14:00 oleonard Yeah might be too messy 14:02 oleonard Regarding the <br/>, you can wrap the submit button in <fieldset class="action"></fieldset> instead 14:02 marcelr would that result in same layout? 14:03 oleonard It creates a line break and adds some padding to the top of the element 14:03 marcelr ok i try that then 14:03 marcelr thx 14:12 oleonard Has anyone looked into changing how we handle the "samesite" attribute of cookies? 14:12 oleonard Firefox now warns about it in the console 14:13 oleonard Cookie “CGISESSID†has “SameSite†policy set to “Lax†because it is missing a “SameSite†attribute, and “SameSite=Lax†is the default value for this attribute. 14:16 oleonard I'm not entirely sure how the various settings relate to Koha's requirements. 14:16 oleonard https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Set-Cookie/SameSite 14:18 ashimema hmm.. I think there may be a security bug open about it. 14:19 marcelr are these warns not there for some time already ? 14:19 ashimema bug 26019 14:19 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=26019 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Koha should set SameSite attribute on cookies 14:19 ashimema contains discussion around i 14:19 oleonard Oh cool, I should have looked. 14:23 oleonard I'm running through the staff interface with jQuery Migrate enabled, so checking the console a lot. Eliminating unnecessary warnings would make it easier. 14:25 marcelr hmm i was in that discussion 14:34 oleonard Dev meeting shortly, eh? 14:34 ashimema yup 14:39 marcelr Was no mention on the list 14:40 ashimema hmm.. it's in the calendar 14:58 tuxayo meeting in 2min! 14:58 tuxayo qa_team? 14:58 tuxayo rmaints? 14:59 oleonard-away wahanui? 14:59 tuxayo :o 15:00 ashimema 🙂 15:01 tuxayo #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 19 January 2022 15:01 huginn Meeting started Wed Jan 19 15:01:31 2022 UTC. The chair is tuxayo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:01 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 15:01 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_19_january_2022' 15:01 tuxayo #topic Introductions 15:01 tuxayo rmaints? 15:02 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA 15:02 tuxayo i heard rmaints was khall, AndrewFH, wainui and tuxayo 15:02 tuxayo qa_team? 15:02 tuxayo well, qa_team is cait, joubu, tuxayo, marcelr, kidclamp, khall, tcohen, ashimema, nugged, kohaputti, petrova 15:02 tuxayo #info Victor Grousset, Tuxayo Group Holding Limited, France 15:02 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe, UK 15:02 nugged #info Andrew Nugged, National Library of Finland, HELSINKI 15:03 tuxayo Apologies from Fridolin: «Sorry, children sick at home. Feel free to postpone the points I have noted. Email me for any question. » 15:03 nugged 🇠🫖 and 💪 for Fridolin! 15:04 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart 15:04 tuxayo i'll relay ^^ 15:05 tuxayo #topic Announcements 15:05 marcelr #info Marcel de Rooy 15:05 tuxayo Any announcement that doesn't fit in another topic? 15:05 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City, recent COVID capital, testing negative from last week and after effects of severe congestion, fatigue, etc. have greatly. I do not recommend it but very contagious despite vaccination and other precautions. 15:05 oleonard There was a meeting yesterday of interested parties regarding a redesign of the staff interface 15:06 oleonard I will send a brief report to koha-devel today 15:06 ashimema oleonard++ 15:06 ashimema I look forward to reading the report 15:06 tuxayo best wishes for remission thd 15:07 tuxayo great news oleonard 15:07 thd s/greatly/greatly diminished/ 15:07 tuxayo #topic Update from the Release manager (22.05) 15:08 tuxayo «How do we manage review of Bug 19532 Recalls ?» 15:08 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19532 new feature, P1 - high, ---, aleisha, ASSIGNED , Recalls for Koha 15:08 marcelr we made plans for that already 15:09 marcelr in earlier dev meetings 15:09 marcelr i asked for more specific timing but got no specific replies 15:10 tuxayo In a previous meeting or in the ticket? 15:10 marcelr depends on what you exactly mean 15:11 tuxayo I missed the previous message. Ok about timing. 15:12 tuxayo @ Fridolin for later: The latest news are in the ticket. IIUC it's feature frozen and a rebase in needed to review and test as is. 15:12 huginn tuxayo: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready 15:12 tuxayo can't use the at sign at all without huginn noticing ^^ 15:13 * ashimema still struggles with recalls.. is it still nearly a clone of holds code from many years ago? 15:13 Joubu use later tell 15:14 marcelr ashimema: you are backtracking the discussion now? 15:14 ashimema ok.. I'll stay quiet 15:15 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions 15:15 khall_ #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions 15:15 tuxayo next point from Fridolin: « There are links to gitweb in https://koha-community.org/get-involved/for-developers/ » 15:17 tuxayo I might have the right to edit this page where is the repo for documentation now? 15:17 oleonard That could be added as bug in Bugzilla 15:18 tuxayo Indeed 15:18 tuxayo #action tuxayo open ticket and update https://koha-community.org/get-involved/for-developers/ with the URL of the current git repo (Gitea) 15:19 tuxayo next point from Fridolin: « Add new Bugzilla component for Koha as Mojo App ? » 15:19 Joubu No need to ticket + blabla too long for an update of the website 15:19 tuxayo Are there so many tickets about that an omnibus ticket doesn't do the trick? 15:19 Joubu ping me and I will do it 15:19 tuxayo ok 15:19 Joubu that seems easier for everybody 15:22 tuxayo #action tuxayo postpone «Add new Bugzilla component for Koha as Mojo App ?» and ask for more details 15:22 tuxayo #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers 15:22 tuxayo rmaints? 15:22 tuxayo i heard rmaints was khall, AndrewFH, wainui and tuxayo 15:23 khall_ steady as she goes :) 15:23 tuxayo nothing to report about 20.11 15:23 tuxayo moving on then 15:23 tuxayo #topic Updates from the QA team 15:23 tuxayo qa_team? 15:24 tuxayo well, qa_team is cait, joubu, tuxayo, marcelr, kidclamp, khall, tcohen, ashimema, nugged, kohaputti, petrova 15:24 oleonard No cait1 at the moment? 15:24 ashimema I've been behind on QA so far this cycle personally.. other pressing commitments 15:24 ashimema but I am starting to pick up pace again now 15:24 marcelr ashimema++ 15:25 ashimema we still need more hands.. for the small/trivial bugs there's still a serious lag.. many of them only take a couple of minutes to QA 15:25 ashimema grab it, check it, run the qa scripts.. 15:25 ashimema if more people grabbed one of those a day we'd keep the queue numbers down.. and have more time to concentrate on the bigger things 15:26 cait1 oh yes sorry 15:27 cait1 what ashimema said 15:27 cait1 we need more hands and more QA time overall 15:27 Joubu yes, I am trying to send a short email with a list of easy bugs that should go asap 15:27 ashimema [off] I mooted the topic of trying to put some money up for a 'pipelines' position in the community.. someone actually paid to help keep things moving.. chasing for signoffs and qa's 15:27 cait1 i'd love to see the average 'time in queue' reduced... but it won't be possible with more resources 15:27 Joubu will continue doing it for the next weeks and see if they get attention 15:28 ashimema I've done 12 QA's today.. in a half hour gap I had between meetings 😉 15:28 marcelr hmm 15:28 ashimema it's not impossible to keep on top of things.. there's just a disitnct lack of apetite 15:28 ashimema most of those were one line string fixes 😉 15:28 cait1 at the moment wefocus on the bad and ugly mostly 15:28 marcelr too fast qa's is just postponing trouble 15:28 ashimema I agree 15:28 thd :) 15:28 ashimema but typo and string fixes really do only take a few minutes 15:28 Joubu but having the list full of easy but ugly tiny things does not help to see what's exactly in the list 15:29 cait1 not talking about fast... but more time overall and prioritizing 15:29 ashimema exactly 15:29 cait1 so yes, if you have stuff waiting, consider to join the team ;) 15:29 ashimema if we can tackle those quickly.. it focuses the eye on the other one's more 15:29 cait1 i think doing QA 'right' also saves time in the long run 15:29 marcelr only focusing on small stuff, will not get the other ones in 15:30 cait1 bugs fixing issues missed also take time 15:30 cait1 I'd be ok if we mostly did a mix 15:30 cait1 if everyone grabbed the oldest in queue... and 1-3 easy ones constantly, we'd get stuff moving already 15:30 cait1 like strting with the worst/oldest everytime you get to do QA or at least try to 15:31 marcelr yeah some kind of balance 15:31 ashimema my point isn't to say "don't do the hard one".. it was to say.. if you have half an hour between meetings.. pick off a simple QA or two 15:31 cait1 yep 15:32 ashimema don't wait for yourself to have a multi-hour period you may never get so you can attack one hard one 😉 15:32 cait1 the balance... is the key, discussing it is a good step already 15:32 ashimema but yeah.. we just need more flow as a whole 15:32 cait1 maybe to add for the logs, we have also been talking to Aleisha about the recalls bug (marcelr++ aleisha*++) and hope to have that one moving soon 15:33 cait1 but overall... more resources would help a great deal 15:34 tuxayo #topic Status of roadmap projects 15:35 Joubu roadmap? 15:35 tuxayo Is there actually an equivalent this cycle? 15:35 cait1 not sure, is frido around? 15:35 oleonard No 15:36 ashimema there was an intention.. but I don't know that it came to fruition 15:36 tuxayo There might a confusion, the old roadmap document has seed some edits this cycle ^^ 15:36 tuxayo https://annuel.framapad.org/p/koha_21.11_roadmap 15:36 oleonard "todo: Make a roadmap" :) 15:36 * ashimema really has dropped the ball on this cycle so far.. sorry peeps 15:36 cait1 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 15:37 marcelr Joubu asked for feedback in a mail on dev list 15:37 cait1 ashimema: it happens, we need to be able to deal with people having other projects and stuff 15:37 cait1 shoudl we postpone thre roadmap question and check in with frido on this? 15:37 thd I have fixed image directories missed from rsync when relocating files in the wiki. I can concentrate for the hours required now without risking bronchitis. 15:37 cait1 or assume we'll move them to a new one 15:38 ashimema [off] ptfs-e are advertising for a new developer in the next few days.. so things are looking up for time I can spend on Koha again in the medium term future 15:38 tuxayo #action tuxayo postpone roadmap topic and check in with frido on this 15:39 tuxayo #topic Actions from last meeting 15:40 tuxayo « fridolin announces timeframe extension (end of feb) and for this one allow proposals outside eligible continents, keeping priority to actual ones » 15:40 tuxayo done 15:41 marcelr thats kohacon? 15:41 tuxayo yes 15:42 tuxayo #action postpone or ask about the 2 other actions of fridolin. And 15:42 tuxayo « tuxayo check if xt/perltidyrc is used to see if we currently rely on it's values » 15:42 tuxayo it doesn't 15:43 tuxayo it doesn't influence the tests at all. So do we still need it? 15:43 ashimema interesting 15:43 cait1 if we don't need it... removing it seems logical 15:43 tuxayo After emptying it or removing or setting the max line lenght to 40 char no error pops 15:43 ashimema not doing anything.. lets get rid of it. 15:43 cait1 and if we don't enforce/use it either 15:44 marcelr just open a report on Bugzilla :) 15:44 tuxayo ok, who to open the ticket? 15:44 marcelr i dont know how 15:44 tuxayo #action tuxayo open a ticket about the removal of xt/perltidyrc which is not used 15:45 thd Was it ever used? 15:45 tuxayo maybe a long time ago 15:46 tuxayo «tuxayo postpone "Avoid formatting single words within sentences to ease translation (example: Bug 29589)" to wait for test results » 15:46 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=29589 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, Failed QA , Translation issue with formatting in MARC overlay rules page 15:46 tuxayo I suppose it's about this https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=29589#c6 15:46 huginn Bug 29589: minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart+koha, Failed QA , Translation issue with formatting in MARC overlay rules page 15:47 tuxayo Anyone has seen the new ticket ? 15:48 Joubu bug 29853 15:48 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=29853 normal, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Needs Signoff , Text needs HTML filter before KohaSpan filter 15:48 Joubu I guess 15:48 ashimema not one I've looked at yet 15:48 tuxayo thank for the find Joubu, so done 15:48 tuxayo « tuxayo Update coding guideline JS5 to removed everything from DEPRECATED to the end of JS5. » 15:48 tuxayo donne 15:49 tuxayo #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) 15:49 tuxayo « LTS discussion » 15:49 tuxayo Shall we postpone for when fridolin is there and we have more time? 15:50 ashimema yup 15:50 marcelr postponing++ 15:50 Joubu what's the discussion about? 15:50 Joubu we postponed it 3 times already 15:50 thd LTS 15:50 ashimema true 15:50 marcelr thats tells you something at least 15:50 cait1 i think we need to agreeon the time we support 15:51 cait1 and maybe discuss about regularly dropping rleeases in between 15:51 ashimema to have some formal idea of what our LTS support means 15:51 Joubu it's LTS maintainer to decide 15:51 cait1 and.. write it down somewhere 15:51 tuxayo yes, do we start a formal LTS and advertise it 15:51 Joubu or someone somewhere to decide they will have someone to deal with that 15:51 * nugged going behind the talk but ... 15:51 nugged > removal of xt/perltidyrc which is not used 15:51 nugged but do we have some recommended perltidyrc which is "proper-iest" one? 15:51 Joubu so a support company 15:51 cait1 an LTS doesn't work wihtout a "promise" of support time 15:51 ashimema how long, how many versions should we actually be supporting.. should we drop some versions and take up a rolling version 15:51 Joubu it's not our job to do that, what if we decide 4 years and next year nobody is willing to support it? 15:52 marcelr we dont have the people to do it 15:52 cait1 well then we can't have an LTS at all 15:52 ashimema something being called LTS means as a community we have committed 15:52 ashimema we need to know what LTS actually means and publish that 15:52 cait1 I agree 15:52 thd ashimema++ 15:52 Joubu drop rangi an email then 15:54 tuxayo > what if we decide 4 years and next year nobody is willing to support it? 15:54 tuxayo We can be confident to always have 3 RMaints and that would mean oldoldstable could be dropped when a 4th RMaint isn't found. This seems a doable promise in general. 15:54 cait1 yes, it would have to take priority 15:54 ashimema personally.. I think we're an already rather stretched team of people ;).. I'd love to see us drop some support and move to a more fluid model for some support 15:54 marcelr just stick to 3 versions ? 15:54 ashimema but also.. if we say we'll do LTS.. what goes into decided that a particular version becomes the next LTS? 15:55 cait1 I was wondering that too 15:55 cait1 after 19.11... what woudl be the next one to become an LTS release 15:55 marcelr 20.11 15:55 cait1 i think we were talking about 2-3 years last time 15:55 cait1 supporting 15:55 cait1 marcelr: can you explain? 15:55 Joubu it should be 3y minimum 15:55 marcelr it is a good release :) 15:55 ashimema https://koha-community.org/about/release-schedule/ will need updating 15:55 tuxayo > just stick to 3 versions ? 15:55 tuxayo Worst case. In the exemple workflow that would be very similar to the current one 15:56 marcelr i think that we want too much 15:56 Joubu it's actually easier than suporting 3 versions 15:57 Joubu we just need to support an old version for those who does not care abotu the new features 15:57 Joubu and to provide them security backport 15:57 Joubu it's the main purpose, security patches 15:57 cait1 yes 15:57 marcelr thats just additional work on top of 3 versions 15:57 cait1 and that's the way we should do it 15:57 tuxayo So it would be stable and LTS so 2. 15:57 cait1 i think that's why ashimema was suggesting to drop one 15:58 ashimema exactly 15:58 cait1 or drop oldoldstable? 15:58 cait1 same versions than now... but bigger gap 15:58 * ashimema would actually like LTS, Stable and Rolling.. as the three 15:58 tuxayo In this case we would drop oldoldstable and oldstable IIUC 15:58 ashimema with rolling meaning a feature release every month 15:58 tuxayo > LTS, Stable and Rolling.. as the three 15:58 tuxayo That could work very well 15:58 ashimema and stable meaning feature stable for 6 months.. 15:58 thd marcelr: Are you really saying that there is a need for the 3 versions in any case because of supporting customers or something? 15:59 ashimema so more of a drop oldstable and oldoldstable 15:59 cait1 i think maybe smaller steps... establish LTS first 15:59 cait1 let the others run out slowly... 15:59 cait1 and maybe do an oldstable 15:59 cait1 people need to jump on LTS first too 15:59 ashimema or stable becomes a 1 year rather than 6 month feature cadence 16:00 ashimema the point is to reduce the number of rmaints required 16:00 ashimema and generally try to make our 'dev' branch more stable to begin with for rolling 16:00 tuxayo > or stable becomes a 1 year rather than 6 month feature cadence 16:00 tuxayo ++ that's a possibility 16:00 cait1 i am not sure we can do more stable 16:00 cait1 there will always be big patches with possible side effects 16:00 cait1 and communitcating those riskier releases seems a nightmare 16:01 cait1 it might also be confusing to libraries to have even more releases and release notes to check 16:01 marcelr when 21.11 came out, i went to 20.11 16:01 marcelr so that would not be possible anymore already 16:01 cait1 yes, I think we need to think about the implications for people on different versions now 16:01 ashimema yup 16:02 ashimema all this stuff needs formalising and discussing... just suddently saying we're having an LTS overnight was the problem in my book 16:02 cait1 I think it's good to have a fact and then we can work from there .) 16:02 cait1 but we have only talked about it here... nothing writen up etc 16:02 cait1 we need to now do that 16:03 ashimema yup.. so first step is to just document what we mean by LTS and make it a community commitment 16:03 tuxayo > just suddently saying we're having an LTS overnight 16:03 tuxayo 19.11 it's just a version with long support. There was never a promise for support time so there is no issue 16:04 tuxayo And can we know in advance if an LTS will be followed enough to be worth it? 16:04 cait1 ok - what about... we start an lts wiki page 16:04 tuxayo Are many instances doing minor upgrades? 16:04 cait1 add the queestions and our answers and go from there next time? 16:04 tuxayo https://hea.koha-community.org/systempreferences 16:04 tuxayo There are some instances that are on the latests 20.05.x and 19.11.x so it would benefit them to have a long support. Which it the case for 19.11.x 16:04 tuxayo But it's dwarfed by a factor of 15 for 20.05.x and more than 30 for 19.11.x by the instances on versions older than the last 3. 16:04 cait1 tuxayo: we would only do it when necessary (bad bug fixed) but can't tell about others 16:04 thd What would the mechanism be to ensure support? Ensure that someone would be available for maintenance for the duration of the period? 16:05 cait1 I don't think it needs to be for the whole duration, others can take over 16:05 ashimema I'd be interested to see if there are any stats from the deb repos that could give us an idea of how many people actually track the verious releases and don't pin. 16:05 cait1 we alrady do that curently 16:05 marcelr tuxayo hea figures? if so, be careful with older numbers 16:05 ashimema right now we kinda pressurise people into taking on the existing rmaint roles 16:06 tuxayo cait1: I'm not worried about provider involved in the community. 16:06 ashimema it's a given they're needed 16:06 ashimema so people step in 16:06 tuxayo thd: « Ensure that someone would be available for maintenance for the duration of the period?» If we have a workflow that works with 3 RMaints we shouldn't have an issue 16:07 cait1 yes, keeping it at 3 versions shoudl work, we'd just have a wider gap between lts and others 16:07 cait1 I don't think we'll come to results today 16:08 tuxayo marcelr: I don't why I didn't look 20.11. But for 21.05 it's too recent to see if people upgrade it. Since it was the latest version not long ago 16:08 ashimema indeed 16:09 marcelr just warning because older data is not removed at fixed time 16:10 tuxayo When an instance sent again data, it replace the old one right? 16:10 tuxayo There is an ID for each Koha 16:10 marcelr i guess, but when they leave, the records stays 16:10 marcelr so the picture is not clear anymore 16:10 thd I presume there would be people for maintenance as long as support companies have sufficient demand for such a version which depends significantly on what libraries actually want. 16:11 tuxayo > i guess, but when they leave, the records stays 16:11 tuxayo Indeed, but that should only blur thing for older releases right? 16:13 marcelr well we got out of scope a bit 16:13 ashimema it's not just rmaint burden either.. I've often found myself having to write patches for multiple versions.. sometimes they differ rally quite a lot.. the less parallel versions we support the more reliable we can get I feel 16:13 ashimema but yeah.. lets move on. 16:14 tuxayo What's the next step to plan about the topic? 16:14 marcelr a proposal on the wiki? 16:14 tuxayo So it doesn't stay in limbo 16:14 cait1 +1 16:15 tuxayo Who to draft one or several workflow proposals on the wiki? 16:15 tuxayo I can participate 16:16 thd ashimema writes a definition of LTS along which includes a path from some current or forthcoming release. 16:16 marcelr [off] htg 16:17 ashimema I can try to knock something together.. or at least ask rangi or someone what their intentions were 16:18 cait1 i thik we just need a starting point 16:18 ashimema I think, as a company, we're unlikely to actually use the LTS notion.. customers aren't keen on software that ages that much 16:18 cait1 once you start writing it gets a little easier 16:18 ashimema ok.. i'll draft something 16:18 thd ashimema: If customers are not keen, how will it really be supported properly? 16:19 cait1 i think thre are just different use cases 16:19 tuxayo There are multiple involved actor here 16:19 cait1 a self supported library might be keen on an LTS 16:19 ashimema well ptfs-e is unlikely to be lending a hand.. doesn't mean other companies may not take a different stance/cadence 16:19 cait1 or more i think they will be 16:19 ashimema indeed 16:19 cait1 and we will probably consider it at least 16:19 reiveune bye 16:20 ashimema yup.. there are certainly people out there 16:20 ashimema we generally have been trying to move to annual feature upgrades 16:20 thd I understand the rationale for the self supported, but they need strong advocacy. 16:21 cait1 we know they are there... and for smaller support proivders it cuold also well be an option 16:21 ashimema so an LTS of 3 years or something wouldn't sit well with customers.. many already don't like having to wait for their sponsored features 16:21 cait1 it really depends on your environment, resources etc. 16:21 ashimema indeed 16:21 ashimema I'm totally not against it 16:21 cait1 not toally? ;) 16:21 ashimema lol 16:21 ashimema right.. moving on.. 16:21 cait1 it is a chance to talk about how we do things too of course 16:22 ashimema what's next tuxayo? 16:22 tuxayo > there are certainly people out there 16:22 tuxayo Yes, like Catalyst that support 19.11 even if they aren't using it and I support oldoldstable without providing it too. So no worries as long as it requires 3 RMaint 16:22 tuxayo #action ashimema drafts an LTS proposal. (tuxayo can help!) 16:22 tuxayo #topic Set time of next meeting 16:23 tuxayo It would be the 2 february then 16:24 tuxayo same time I supose 16:24 ashimema lol.. I started to try and get a discussion going about this in 2019: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Versioning_-_Next 16:25 tuxayo lol 16:25 tuxayo #info Next meeting: 2 February 2022, 15:00 UTC 16:25 tuxayo #endmeeting 16:25 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jan 19 16:25:22 2022 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 16:25 huginn Minutes: https://meetings.koha-community.org/2022/development_irc_meeting_19_january_2022.2022-01-19-15.01.html 16:25 huginn Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-community.org/2022/development_irc_meeting_19_january_2022.2022-01-19-15.01.txt 16:25 huginn Log: https://meetings.koha-community.org/2022/development_irc_meeting_19_january_2022.2022-01-19-15.01.log.html 16:25 oleonard tuxayo++ 16:25 tuxayo thanks all for sticking for so long 16:25 ashimema tuxayo++ 16:26 thd Stay safe everyone. 16:26 oleonard Thanks for chairing tuxayo 16:26 cait1 tuxayo++ 16:26 cait1 bye all 16:27 tuxayo ashimema: LTS and rolling was already there! 16:28 ashimema indeed 16:28 ashimema it's been an idea that's been mulling around for years 16:33 thd Do not believe that "some mild symptoms" with a small risk of extra badness is the only problem with what the world is trying to avoid. I felt worst of all after testing negative again after a few days of feeling somewhat better. Overactive immune response and consequent problems is really best avoided. 16:36 thd Continuing to wipe down shared keyboards is probably a good idea along with keeping further away from everyone who breathes even with masks. 16:44 * thd has to go in to work today off schedule. The source of all infection for me. At least, now I am probably highly immune to recurrence for a little while. 21:28 Kate Hello All, 21:29 Kate I have tried to find a report for gathering records with duplicate EAN rather than ISBNs, but no luck. Does anyone know of a link to one? Thanks! 21:37 Kate IDENTIFY 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29889: Incorrect library check in patron message deletion logic <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c60281ab4102551d46dc793a1ca35af9ad5f9c0> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 11750: (QA follow-up) Remove unconditional warn <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e653effe5783e149f5ab69f388aa5509db454ef4> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29806: (follow-up) Call ->as_list for ->pickup_locations on request.pl <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=cf77d0f7b2e6a58c888ea47d724858e6425b7722> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29806: Fix POST /holds use of pickup_locations <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=cdbfadbc92be16f7dd839c3cd0f8f7029575b9fc> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29806: Regression tests <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=12079466655ba7929b88024d75f12ae9136c7e68> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29806: Call ->as_list for ->pickup_locations on request.pl <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=3eb2f8ebbe76984c9b64eb123c25a96018bf368d> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29807: Make Branches plugin handle empty pickup locations list <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=fe0a0ee83490103d49711d2afaacb9803e9b9740> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29807: Regression tests <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=fa1e67ecc7177544a60fd438b60e3a9d4e142e9d> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18320: Remove calls to CGI->param from the templates in patron cards <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e3a98dd05c20333a4bcd64f3b3c00d58d68a347e> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 29764: Fix incorrect EmbedItems RecordProcessor filter POD <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=43abf06b6445ba00712086a3dc2fb9cf99ef7054> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 11750: Hide patron's attributes on overdue list if needed <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=a5fd77be044a893bdbbd4127f39e82dc278d897d> 22:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 18320: Remove patroncards/edit-layout.pl warnings <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=b31d1f669a0b78d642be74f11aff68e4994f4275> 22:52 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_CPAN build #516: SUCCESS in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D11_CPAN/516/ 22:59 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D11_My8 build #731: SUCCESS in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D11_My8/731/ 23:06 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master build #1893: STILL UNSTABLE in 47 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master/1893/ 23:09 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U20 build #286: SUCCESS in 50 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U20/286/ 23:12 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D12 build #63: FAILURE in 2 min 56 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D12/63/ 23:17 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U_Stable build #362: SUCCESS in 1 hr 0 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U_Stable/362/ 23:22 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U21 build #72: SUCCESS in 1 hr 4 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U21/72/ 23:30 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9 build #1858: SUCCESS in 38 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D9/1858/ 23:39 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D10 build #513: SUCCESS in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D10/513/