Time Nick Message 04:04 zjmarlow Hello. Is there someone here who is familiar with installing on debian? I did a git clone and made it through make install okay but at the koha-create step I get "Koha instance is empty, no staff user created." Checking the database shows it is empty (no tables). Is there supposed to be a file I pass with --defaultsql to koha-create? 07:34 paxed i haven't checked the recent(ish) versions, but is there a way for staff to move issues.date_due and/or reserves.expirationdate without doing sql? needed occasionally when a library forgets to set closed dates for holidays or whatever ... :P 07:37 reiveune hello 07:37 wahanui hello, reiveune 07:44 alex_a Bonjour 07:45 fridolin hi 08:00 magnuse \o/ 08:24 cait1 caroline: can we talk about spaces? :) 08:35 ashimema mornin 08:36 ashimema hi cait1 08:36 ashimema back to work today? 09:00 der_smon hi! is the batch record deletion still in beta or something like that? because it is left out of the documentation (i can only find item deletion docs) 09:08 davidnind der_smon: see https://koha-community.org/manual/20.11/en/html/tools.html#batch-record-deletion 09:11 der_smon davidnind: thx :) 09:16 nlegrand Bonjour ! 10:22 tcohen bonjour! 13:05 Joubu kidclamp: thanks for the benchmark on bug 5697! So shouldn't we drop the last patch then? 13:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5697 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Automatic linking in guided reports 13:06 Joubu It's sad because the code is (imo) much better like that 13:07 Joubu but if it adds 30sec for 2k results I don't think it's acceptable 13:54 caroline cait1: spaces? 13:54 wahanui spaces are breaking spaces 13:56 * ashimema reads code for bug 5697 13:56 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5697 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Automatic linking in guided reports 13:58 ashimema I wonder if we could shift the load to the server? 13:58 ashimema i.e. build the links in the template with a hidden class on load and only use JS to hide/show them 13:58 ashimema rather than dynamically adding them to the DOM via JS 14:07 * cait1 glares at kidclamp 14:07 ashimema ? 14:07 cait1 broke fines 14:07 kidclamp um..no 14:07 cait1 yep you did for us 14:07 ashimema oooh.. it wasn't me? 14:08 kidclamp I changed fines 14:08 cait1 just taking discussion here as it's easier 14:08 kidclamp :-) 14:08 cait1 for our use case which is mostly weekly fines, we can't charge when the library is closed 14:08 cait1 we need to send the notices the same day the fine accrues 14:08 cait1 meddling with the holidays breaks all that carefully configured things 14:09 cait1 and we don't want to send on days the library is closed before you ask 14:09 ashimema ooh.. we liked that change here 14:09 cait1 well we don't 14:09 cait1 and it was totally falsely advertised 14:09 cait1 the bugs reads... when finescalendar is set to ignore 14:09 cait1 but it affects when the finescalendar is used 14:09 * ashimema is confused 14:10 cait1 and the tst plan read: 14:10 cait1 10 - set finesCalendar to 'use' 11 - checkout an item, due yesterday 12 - run fines.pl 13 - no fine assessed 14:10 cait1 so... now it does assess 14:10 cait1 so don't tell me it was intended - something is wrong here :) 14:11 * ashimema has a cat that really doesn't want to let me read your messages today.. he's sat on my desk chasing the mouse around the screen 14:11 cait1 hehe :) 14:11 ashimema bug number cait 14:11 cait1 probably because i sound grumpy 14:11 cait1 bug 27180 14:11 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27180 normal, P5 - low, ---, nick, RESOLVED FIXED, Fines cronjob does not update fines on holidays when finesCalendar is set to ignore 14:11 cait1 and bug 27835 14:11 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27835 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Closed days offsets with one day 14:12 cait1 I had too many morning meetings... 14:12 kidclamp Do you want a switch then? to decide if the cron runs or not? 14:13 kidclamp Logically I will argue they are the same - book due on Friday - returned on Saturday whether open or not, you didn't return on time and should be charged 14:14 cait1 as I said, we need to time the notices for our use case 14:14 cait1 and people here would ge tupset charged on days they could not return the item 14:14 cait1 it's just a different expectation 14:15 cait1 but it's the same expectation for all our libraries charging fines... so I'd really need the regression for us fixed 14:15 cait1 this is a behavior change backported far into stables 14:15 ashimema i agree kidc lamp 14:15 cait1 and the library reporting didn't like it etiher 14:15 Joubu we could enqueue the letter but delay the sending 14:16 ashimema darn cat is now attacking my typing hand 14:16 cait1 Joubu: no please 14:16 cait1 print notices also need to be processed 14:16 cait1 i really need them to be dated the same 14:16 cait1 as before 14:16 cait1 no workarounds 14:17 kidclamp you should blame the person who QAed the bug ;-) 14:17 ashimema so you send a notice every and any time a fine is incremented? 14:17 cait1 i do 14:17 cait1 me 14:17 cait1 but your tet plan was wrong 14:17 cait1 and the description was wrong too 14:17 cait1 so i blame you too 14:17 kidclamp but you said it worked ;-) 14:17 cait1 i trusted you too much 14:17 ashimema lol 14:18 ashimema I said it was right too ;) 14:18 cait1 yeah, but did you actually check the second test case? 14:18 cait1 like... in the gui? 14:18 cait1 I obviously didn't and yep, i am guilty 14:19 cait1 actually... what the bug says would b right - if the calendar is ignored, you need to charge on closing days 14:19 cait1 but why do we need to charge on days the library was not closed? 14:19 cait1 um 14:20 cait1 why do we charge when the claendar is used on days the library is closed (is what i meant) 14:20 cait1 can we solve your original issue differently? 14:20 cait1 so we don't need another switch that can go wrong 14:28 ashimema I'm confused 14:28 caroline cait1: you wanted to talk about spaces? or are you too busy with the fines thing? 14:29 ashimema so your saying you want to charge on closed days.. but pretend like you don't until you do... 14:30 ashimema should there be a setting to say whether you support doing dropbox type returns ever or not 14:30 Joubu ¡dev meeting in 30! 14:30 ashimema if oyu do, then you hide that fact they might have been charged because they might also have returned the box in a dropbox 14:31 ashimema mm.. I'm in company meeting now.. but will try to multi-task for the dev meeting 14:31 cait1 caroline: just wondering because I saw a lot of .spacespace at the endof sentences in translation suddenly 14:31 cait1 the old text/manual doesn't have these 14:31 caroline it's an old way of typing 14:31 cait1 ashimema: no, i want no charges on closed days ever 14:32 tuxayo meeting in 30min! 14:32 kidclamp days_between calculates as '1' when startdate is yesterday and enddate is today and today is a holiday - we could it subtract 1 if enddate is a holiday (we do subtract 1 if startdate is a holiday) 14:33 cait1 if we calculate opening days that would make sense to me 14:33 cait1 on first glance 14:33 cait1 but days_between is a global thing? i mean would it effect other things or are we still in fines.pl? 14:33 kidclamp but we should only do that if finescalendar, and yes, we hsould probably do it on the return in CalcFine 14:35 cait1 that sounds like it would work 14:35 cait1 in the past the fines.pl skipped... and usually no returns where taking place on closed days, but it makes more sense to have it where the fine i calculated actually 14:36 kidclamp # start and end should not be closed days - days betwen has that too 14:38 kidclamp question though - book due friday - we are closed saturday, but book returned saturday- should there be a charge? 14:38 kidclamp because you didn't return on friday 14:39 ashimema there's loads of tests written for that area of code I believe... Joubu and I worked through it allot fairly recently 14:41 kidclamp kk, will submit something for review shortly 14:48 cait1 no 14:49 cait1 kidclamp: due date is usually friday 23:59 14:49 cait1 and then the next day is closed 14:49 cait1 so yu are not actually late before sunsay morning (if the library is open then) 14:49 kidclamp but you are, you returned it after it was due 14:50 cait1 if you return on saturday 14:50 kidclamp there is no scenario in which you return it before friday at 23:59 14:50 cait1 yo used a bookbox i assume? 14:50 cait1 so the date wuld be backdated to friday 14:50 cait1 it would be as IF you retunred it on freiday 14:50 kidclamp and wouldn't be charged 14:50 cait1 yep 14:50 kidclamp but if you didn't dropbox I mean 14:50 cait1 the old behavior was to not charge 14:51 cait1 and i stand with that :) 14:51 cait1 here we expect the charge on the next opening day 14:51 tuxayo Meeting in 10! 14:51 cait1 the fines.pl is usually run before the library opens, then it's charged 14:51 cait1 letters and emails are processed 14:52 kidclamp with calcfineonreturn you would have been charged 14:52 cait1 hmm 14:52 kidclamp these are edge cases, not (entirely) trying to aggravate you :-P 14:52 cait1 we don't use that actually so there was always a mismatch in behaviour 14:52 cait1 but we didn't notice 14:53 cait1 i think because daily fines are not really a thing here 14:53 cait1 we only have a very few doing that for overnights 14:54 cait1 the standard use case here is always a weekly increase 14:54 cait1 with a grace period that can differ 14:54 cait1 many years ago it was mandatory for the libraries to charge that way, so that's why we have that here i think 14:56 cait1 and overdue notices going out the same day as the fine is applied 14:59 Joubu gmcharlt: can you add '2021' to the meetings.k-c.org header please? 14:59 Joubu #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021 14:59 huginn Meeting started Wed Mar 10 14:59:49 2021 UTC. The chair is Joubu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:59 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:59 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_10_march_2021' 14:59 Joubu qa_team? 14:59 wahanui qa_team is cait, dcook, amoyano, ashimema, marcelr, kohaputti, jajm, tcohen, josef_moravec, kidclamp, khall and tuxayo 14:59 Joubu rmaints? 14:59 wahanui rmaints is fridolin, AndrewFH and tuxayo 15:00 Joubu #topic Introductions 15:00 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart 15:00 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions 15:00 tuxayo #info tuxayo/Victor Grousset, France 15:00 Joubu #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_10_March_2021 15:00 AndrewFH #info Andrew Fuerste-Henry, ByWater Solutions 15:01 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 15:02 Joubu cait1, tcohen, ashimema? 15:02 fridolin #info Fridolin, Biblibre, France 15:02 Joubu #topic Announcements 15:02 Joubu Anyone have something? 15:02 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe 15:02 Joubu I have, but will keep them for the 'update from RM' topic 15:03 ashimema Apologies, juggling two meetings right now 15:03 Joubu this one is more important, ashimema :D 15:03 ashimema #info PTFS Europe sandboxes now support installation of German, French, Spanish, Greek and Dutch translations. 15:03 fridolin ++ 15:03 tuxayo yay!* 15:03 ashimema will poke bywater to grab the patches for theirs too 15:04 ashimema no other anouncements I can think of 15:04 Joubu #topic Update from the Release Manager (21.05) 15:04 Joubu I will be fast, send "!" if you want me to stop 15:04 Joubu #info There is now a --run-tests option to the QA script to run the tests modified by the patchset 15:05 Joubu Some changes on the CI: 15:05 ashimema Joubu++ 15:05 Joubu #info we now have a new docker_7 node 15:05 tuxayo QA, CI: nice! 15:05 cait1 #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 15:05 Joubu #info There is a "light test suite" that is run by Jenkins for most of the job (apart from D10) - checkout https://tree.taiga.io/project/koha-ils/task/102 for more info 15:06 Joubu * Great cleanup on the YAML module, we are now only using YAML::XS everywhere (see bug 27673 and bug 22824). 15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27673 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Replace YAML with YAML::XS 15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22824 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Replace YAML::Syck with YAML::XS 15:06 Joubu It impacts how boolean sysprefs are read/written as we are getting rid of the (incorrect) ImplicitTyping behaviours. 15:06 Joubu * Bug 27829 15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27829 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [OMNIBUS] Remove specific LANG installer data 15:06 Joubu There are patches on bug 27621, bug 27623, bug 27624, and bug 27625. But others will need to be removed/adjusted. 15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27621 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Remove it-IT installer data 15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27623 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Remove pl-PL installer data 15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27624 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Remove ru-RU installer data 15:06 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27625 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Remove uk-UA installer data 15:06 Joubu If you are using fr-FR, fr-CA or nb-NO, you should go ahead and help the move to the new system. 15:06 Joubu A goal would be to have them ALL removed for 21.11 15:06 Joubu You will certainly do it better than me as it needs mediculous work and good knowledge of the different files (which I don't have). 15:07 tuxayo ! 15:07 Joubu I will propose to abandon and deprecate the remaining languages for the 21.11 dev cycle (ie. no more changes to specific language files, that may broke the installer). 15:07 tuxayo > A goal would be to have them ALL 15:07 tuxayo Are there for all languages? 15:07 ashimema nice one 15:07 cait1 Joubu: we have known issues with different item config in the UNIMARC setups... so that will be harder. And UNIMARC is not on Pootle yet. 15:07 Joubu yes, that's part of the 'plan' (which does not exist yet) 15:07 cait1 tuxayo: they can be in the future, but not now. the new system will make it mouch more less technical to add any language we want 15:07 Joubu we will have to work on the UNIMARC setup 15:07 Joubu maybe we should pick the one from fr-FR? 15:08 cait1 i have been thinking about that 15:08 tuxayo So all language need to have those installer files removed? 15:08 cait1 i think we need to keep an eye on the biblionumber link and the item mappings especially 15:08 cait1 it's much less standardized for UNIMARC, but it would be a chance to consolidate 15:08 cait1 tuxayo: yes, we are removing the language specific sql files as a goal 15:09 tuxayo ok thanks 15:09 cait1 tuxayo: so if you want sample data in your language, you can tanslate them on pootle and they will be generated from yaml files and the po 15:09 cait1 which also means that when adding a new notice you will only have to change the yml file in the future 15:09 Joubu we will need help from BibLibre for sure, and French users (at least) 15:09 cait1 instead of changing all the installer file 15:09 cait1 s 15:09 Joubu maybe also ping other UNIMARC users 15:09 ashimema we need a hackfest 15:09 ashimema best time to get biblibre onboard ;) 15:09 cait1 toot rue 15:10 Joubu fridolin: ^ 15:10 Joubu keep that in mind, I will catch you soon ;) 15:10 * fridolin i'm cool nothing realy different 15:10 Joubu fr-FR is a mess :D 15:10 fridolin ah ouch yep 15:11 fridolin i'll see with nlegrand 15:11 ashimema fridolin++ 15:11 Joubu moving on? 15:11 cait1 yes 15:11 Joubu * bug 25078 - I still wish to see more discussion on that one. Does everybody agree with the last comments between jajm and me? 15:11 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25078 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , Update DB process - wrap each DBRev inside a transaction and better error handling 15:11 fridolin ahhh installer ok 15:12 Joubu then I have update for the roadmap, in a couple of minutes 15:12 ashimema I agree 15:12 Joubu #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers 15:12 ashimema keep this patch small and simple (just transactions and reporting back more nicely) 15:13 ashimema and move the idea's about splitting it up into files and handling versioning differently into the other bug 15:13 tuxayo RMaint: nothing in particular to say 15:13 Joubu ashimema: I will try to split them on that one, to avoid having to deal with the each dbrev twice 15:14 ashimema brill :) 15:14 ashimema I'd love ot see the AV translations stuff move forward too.. but not sure how to unstick it. 15:14 Joubu RMaints, use the move atomic update from bug 27903, it's awesome and easy to use ) 15:14 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27903 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , Script to move atomic updates to updatedatabase.pl 15:14 ashimema sorry.. RMaint updates 15:14 ashimema RMaints? 15:14 wahanui RMaints is fridolin, AndrewFH and tuxayo 15:15 AndrewFH Nothing of import from me, thanks :) 15:15 Joubu #topic Updates from the QA team 15:15 ashimema #info More QA needed... always more QA needed :P 15:16 ashimema cait? 15:16 wahanui cait is really good at running into things 15:16 Joubu spread the load! 15:16 ashimema indeed 15:16 tuxayo > running into things 15:16 tuxayo Me too T_T 15:17 Joubu ok 15:18 Joubu #info Status of roadmap projects 15:18 Joubu #link https://annuel.framapad.org/p/koha_21.05_roadmap 15:18 Joubu same, '!' to stop me 15:18 cait1 spread the load - and please QA :) 15:18 cait1 and don't break stuff! 15:18 cait1 sorry to be late 15:18 Joubu bug 15278 15:18 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15278 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, NEW , Port default slips and notices from bespoke syntax to Template Toolkit 15:18 Joubu Started too late and won't be part of 21.05. 15:18 Joubu postponed to 21.11 15:18 cait1 will you mark it accordingly? 15:18 Joubu bug 24975 15:18 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24975 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, In Discussion , Refactor database translations 15:18 Joubu No real focus on it, won't certainly be ready for 21.05 15:18 Joubu yes cait1 15:18 Joubu ashimema: ? 15:19 Joubu we discussed it (jajm, ashimema and me) 15:19 Joubu it took too long to start and I'm afraid we won't have time to finish (even start..) for 21.05 15:19 Joubu we are still disagreeing on how we should implemen tit 15:19 cait1 sad, but i can see that 15:19 cait1 can we give it a prio boost for 21.11? 15:20 Joubu can try 15:20 ashimema sorry.. had to talk in my other meeting 15:20 ashimema reading ujp 15:20 Joubu * Transfer improvement 15:21 Joubu bug 22569 has been pushed, the next on the list are bug 27281 and bug 27896 15:21 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22569 new feature, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Passed QA , Add a 'Transfers to send' report 15:21 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27281 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Needs Signoff , Replace call to `C4::Circulation::DeleteTransfer` with `Koha::Item::Transfer->cancel({ comment => $comment })` in `C4::Circulation::LostItem` 15:21 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27896 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Needs Signoff , Remove C4::Circulation::DeleteTransfer 15:21 Joubu it is moving fast 15:21 ashimema I am working slowly through bits of notices stuff.. but they're not directly related.. more things that i felt need fixing first. 15:21 Joubu ha 22569 is not pushed actually 15:22 ashimema yeah.. 33569 is PQA but not pushed yet ;) 15:22 Joubu will be soon 15:22 cait1 I hope to spend more time with tarnsfers 15:22 cait1 I tried to also work on the checkin checks for branch transfers... but got lost 15:22 ashimema the other two are the next two.. I don't want to end up with such a big tree of outstanding for phase 2 15:22 cait1 commented and waiting for feedback 15:22 ashimema so I'll code and submit.. then wait for SO/QA rather than continuing with the next bugs. 15:23 ashimema where did you comment cait1.. was it aimed at me.. I tihnk I must have missed it 15:23 cait1 ashimema: not on yours, arthur's 15:23 ashimema :) 15:23 Joubu * Performance investigation (compare 20.11 and 17.11) 15:24 Joubu The main work here is bug 27344, which needs more attention as it's an important bit. It would be nice to have another dev involved to get additional points of view. 15:24 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27344 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , Implement Elastic's update_index_background using Koha::BackgroundJob 15:24 Joubu * Git repository shrinking 15:24 Joubu I've started it, but I am stuck. I will send Martin an email soon to discuss it. 15:24 ashimema Agreed, would be good to get more eyes on performance 15:24 Joubu Git gurus are welcome to join the party! 15:24 ashimema I have been meaning to help work on some task queue patches to help that move.. jsut haven't found a moment. 15:24 ashimema happy to help where I can Joubu 15:25 ashimema more git guru's would be great 15:25 Joubu and *when* 15:25 Joubu * Release tools improvement 15:25 Joubu Still planned for a bit later in the cycle 15:25 Joubu * Improve our "news" module 15:25 ashimema +1 15:25 tcohen #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions 15:25 Joubu Signoff is needed here, please? bug 22544 15:25 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Move C4:NewsChannels to Koha namespace 15:25 Joubu This is only the first step and there are interesting changes to implement here, but we need this first step in! 15:26 ashimema I'll grab it for SO or QA.. anyone here want to volunteer for the one I don't do? 15:26 Joubu Josef disappeared so it's ashimema and cait1 15:26 cait1 ok 15:26 cait1 sounds doable,b ut not quite sure when, I will try 15:26 ashimema will look at it this week.. maybe even after this meeting 15:26 cait1 not unhappy if someone beeats me to it 15:27 Joubu * Fix OPACHiddenItems - Bug 24403 15:27 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24403 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [OMNIBUS] OpacHiddenItems should hide items everywhere in the OPAC 15:27 Joubu It has moved quickly then is a bit stuck right now. There is no trivial changes to implement, like adding the "hidden at the OPAC" info to the search engine index. 15:27 Joubu tcohen: something to add? 15:28 Joubu * Handling of errors 500 (it's actually "better handling of error pages") 15:28 ashimema I'd like to join a task force on that one.. but perhaps it's one to get back to for 21.11 ? 15:28 ashimema hidden that is.. 15:28 cait1 there are some spots independent of zebra/elastic that we could still fix i think, but there are API questions as well 15:28 cait1 thinking of the top issues that are built from an sql query for an example 15:30 cait1 also talking about hidden items actually :) 15:30 Joubu top issues look like a tricky one 15:31 Joubu we need a plan for this one in order to know where we are going and what's left (asking that for a couple of months) 15:31 Joubu ok so 15:31 Joubu * Handling of errors 500 (it's actually "better handling of error pages") 15:31 Joubu There are 3 bugs that are waiting for patches. David abandonned the ship and let me alone on this one. 15:31 Joubu I will try to find some time and submit patches. Will be good to have a tester and/or QA along with me (at least for motivation) 15:31 Joubu * Developer handbook and documentation 15:31 Joubu Abandonned for 21.05. There is no real desire (or at least to make some time) to work on it 15:32 cait1 I think last discussine nded with the idea of maybe restarting the wiki 15:32 Joubu (that's not nice but that's true heh) 15:32 cait1 i think the clena up woul be a lot easier if we had the categories and such better working again 15:32 cait1 the old mediawiki is no fun and makes it probably harder for us than it needs to be 15:32 ashimema agreed 15:33 cait1 we coudl mark pages oudated, needing work etc and bult up some process there 15:33 ashimema I don't really have the brain space for it right now.. fighting with the wiki just adds to that 15:33 Joubu yes but saying we should start a bigger work to start documenting things does not feel right 15:33 cait1 that would help people navigate as well 15:33 ashimema I was however tempted to add a couple of micro documentation sites.. one for a more public api documentation 15:33 ashimema and one for more clear notes on developing plugins 15:34 cait1 i was considering starting a a manuelly created list of pages 15:34 ashimema I think those are more manageable as self contained things 15:34 cait1 but thought i might be a little insane... and we really hsoud use tags/categories probably 15:34 ashimema and would market Koha well from a 'Koha is still relevant and modern' perspective 15:34 cait1 where would you put it? 15:34 cait1 i think we actually have good stuff hidden in the wiki, but it's very often not found 15:34 cait1 hidden in the pile 15:35 cait1 so we could think about having a nicer entry page maybe for a start that lists the often needed things in a nice way... 15:35 ashimema I was thinking of using the gitlab pages stuff.. 15:35 cait1 not a total solution, but it might be helpful on the front page 15:35 ashimema and then asking for api.koha-community.org 15:35 Joubu so, plan for 21.11 would be 1. archive the wiki, 2. start from scratch with a better one, 3. Retrieve what is still valid/useful 15:35 cait1 that coudl be 15:35 cait1 yep 15:35 ashimema and possible dev.koha-community.org 15:35 cait1 and maybe I will somehow find time to do some sorting and marking before 15:36 cait1 makes sense 15:36 ashimema +1 for archive the existing wiki and stat fresh migrating only what we actually think is really useful 15:36 * ashimema even wonders if mediawiki is just too big and complex for our uses 15:37 thd If I could not have time for the greater goal I would work on updating the archive of the wiki. 15:37 cait1 we used to have a dokuwiki, but both require a special syntax 15:37 tuxayo Do other wikis have categories? 15:37 cait1 i think something with a more easy flow of things when entering would be more inviting 15:37 thd Things need tags for findability. 15:38 thd The biggest problem with Dokuwiki was that there was no means to find untagged pages. 15:38 cait1 wysiwyg coudl lower the barrier some... abut also need good versioning 15:39 Joubu anyone willing to investigate the different alternatives we have (with a cons/pros list)? 15:39 cait1 I don't kow the market really... we use something proprietory at work, so experience is limtied 15:39 ashimema modern mediawiki is much easier wysiwyg wise 15:40 cait1 but we came from dokuwik and the easier handling for editing tables and the like made all the difference to get more people involved 15:40 tuxayo Need to install an additional service on the sever IIUC for the wysiwyg editor 15:40 cait1 something for a separate meeting maybe 15:40 Joubu yes! 15:40 Joubu moving on 15:40 cait1 yep sorry :) 15:40 Joubu #topic Automated updates for translated manuals 15:40 Joubu ashimema: ? 15:40 Joubu any updates on that? 15:41 ashimema Well.. we got the space on the server expanded so that builds started working again 15:41 tuxayo wizzyrea++ 15:41 ashimema and the tool now triggers proper gitlab merge requests 15:41 ashimema and... 15:41 ashimema as of a couple of days ago I added a cronjob to trigger that tool to run once a month a few days after release 15:42 cait1 oooooh nice 15:42 cait1 ashimema++ 15:42 ashimema so we should get translation merge requests a few days after koha release.. so at least it'll get updated monthly 15:42 ashimema as for automating it more.. I think perhaps lets wait and see how much things change each month for a little while 15:42 tuxayo ashimema++ 15:43 ashimema we will however end up with the same mess the koha repo has.. translations mixed in add to the git girth. 15:43 cait1 I am currently translating the 20.11 german manual, so there shoudl be something next itme 15:43 ashimema be nice to have translations in their own repo in the future 15:43 Joubu great, I let you adjust the roadmap for this topic 15:43 ashimema will do 15:43 Joubu ashimema: that's the plan with "git splitting" 15:43 ashimema indeed 15:43 Joubu * Koha Cookbook Project 15:44 Joubu Meeting planned next Friday (12th)! See the Koha agenda for the time. 15:44 ashimema be great to do the same for the manual repo once we have our heads wrapped around it :) 15:44 Joubu #topic Actions from last meeting 15:44 Joubu #info amoyano advertise Bug 15522 and ask the list for feedback [after 20.11 is released], setup a sandbox, etc. 15:44 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15522 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Patch doesn't apply , New interface for revamped circulation rules 15:45 Joubu tcohen: I stop postponing this one, I let you readd it if needed 15:45 Joubu #info General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) 15:45 Joubu #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) 15:45 Joubu #topic Systemd, Containerisation, Packaging, Other... we need a long term goal and roadmap for these things. - Bug 25674 15:45 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25674 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to master , Add RabbitMQ options to koha-create 15:46 Joubu ashimema: there are 3 topics coming from you 15:46 Joubu #info we need a long term goal and roadmap 15:46 Joubu (lol) 15:46 ashimema indeed there are 15:47 Joubu sorry, a bit sarcastic here, but we know that :) 15:47 ashimema hehe 15:47 ashimema indeed 15:47 ashimema basically.. on the rebbitmq stuff we seem to be working in various opposing directions and I got lost 15:48 ashimema do we need a systemd file or not.. how do we get things to startup as expected in the various installs 15:48 ashimema should rabbitmq be a require in the packages or an optional... 15:48 ashimema should the workers be part of core.. or in their own container, own package so you can install them on other machines and scale horizontally. 15:48 ashimema right now.. it's a mess and needs some clarity 15:49 Joubu we discussed some of that already 15:49 ashimema that's what this question was asking 15:49 Joubu rabbitmq is suggested, we created additional packages to fit the different needs 15:49 ashimema did we answer some of them and document it. 15:49 Joubu ok 15:49 Joubu how/where do we start the discussion? 15:50 ashimema :( 15:50 cait1 i think we did discuss, it might be a case of lack of documenting 15:50 cait1 i remember about koha-core etc 15:51 Joubu if we don't get more people involved more closely and regularly in the documentation and development process it will be hard to discuss such discussions anyway 15:51 ashimema perhaps the whole "lets make a koha-core" etc stuff should be one of the next cycles goals 15:51 ashimema and we should form a small working group to work out what we want, document it.. and then work towards it 15:51 Joubu it's done 15:51 Joubu we have the different packages, and it will be documented in the 21.05 release notes 15:51 ashimema ok 15:51 Joubu as "big tech changes in 21.05" 15:51 cait1 can we also update the pacakge information in the wiki please? 15:52 ashimema ok.. so which package does the worker sit in? 15:52 Joubu koha-full 15:52 * fridolin like service koha-worker@ 15:53 fridolin i'm on building sercives koha-plack@opac and @staff 15:53 Joubu which wiki page cait? "install on debian"? 15:53 ashimema I think maybe I just need someone to walk me through the plan at the next hackfest.. I'm sure it would sink into my brain better with a pint in hand 15:53 cait1 there is one describing the different stable unstabel etc 15:53 cait1 maybe link from that 15:53 cait1 i will look 15:53 cait1 also... we are building our own packages - does the proecess change in that case? i guess so 15:54 Joubu I don't find it 15:54 cait1 https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Packages 15:54 ashimema sounds like it's more under control than I thought thought.. so yeah.. happy to concede and someone can explain how it's all meant to fit together to me at some point.. haha 15:54 cait1 https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Packages_-_The_Easy_Way 15:55 cait1 https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/How_was_my_Koha_installed (how to figure out which package?) 15:55 Joubu it's not listing the different packages the community provide 15:55 cait1 https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Dependencies 15:56 cait1 thee is tons on packages... that's one of our problems :) too scattered 15:56 ashimema this just highlights the need to tidy up the wiki again 15:56 cait1 yep 15:56 cait1 exactly 15:56 cait1 i can group stuff, but i can#t really merge it myself... so I got stuck there 15:57 Joubu we need another page to list the different packages :D 15:58 Joubu #action mtj write something about the new packages for the 21.05 release notes 15:58 cait1 lol 15:58 Joubu has to move on 15:58 cait1 but if that works i am happy ;) 15:58 Joubu #topic Should we add a coding guideline to clarify our message types: 'alert' vs 'error' - Bug 27695 15:58 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27695 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Failed QA , Fix style of messages on Elasticsearch configuration page 15:58 Joubu yes we should 15:59 Joubu #action ashimema Write a coding guideline to clarify our message types: 'alert' vs 'error' (context of bug 27695) 15:59 ashimema So.. it was highligted to me recently that we have somewhat of a pattern for passing back 'messages' form methods. 15:59 ashimema but we don't have a guidelines for the 'types' 15:59 Joubu #topic We should reverse our 'title' elements - Bug 26703 15:59 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=26703 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wainuiwitikapark, Needs Signoff , We should reconsider best practice for our title elements 15:59 ashimema we should :) 15:59 ashimema brill 15:59 Joubu this is high priority (marking as such) 16:00 Joubu we need to help that bug 16:00 ashimema ok.. same again really... we need a guidelines so that we don't introduce new breakages once wainuiwitikpark has fixed all the current cases 16:00 ashimema yeah 16:00 ashimema I've been helping a little in terms of guiding them.. but trying not to take over too much 16:00 Joubu there was another on 16:00 Joubu cannot remember 16:00 ashimema brill.. looks ready for testing now :) 16:01 Joubu will see after the meeting 16:01 ashimema hehe 16:01 Joubu #action Joubu we need to push 26703 asap 16:01 ashimema OK.. I'll draft up guidelines for both of those to vote in next meeting :) 16:02 Joubu #action ashimema Write a guideline for 26703 16:02 ashimema I don't think either is contentious :) 16:02 Joubu #topic Review of coding guidelines 16:02 Joubu #topic On last meeting (24 feb) it was voted "using OPAC instead of Opac or opac", but it was forgotten to find someone to phrase it and add it to the guidelines. 16:03 Joubu #action ashimema write a guideline about using "OPAC instead of Opac or opac" 16:03 tuxayo Wait, it's already in terminology 16:03 tuxayo davidnind++ 16:03 tuxayo Moving on! 16:03 Joubu indeed! 16:03 Joubu #info "OPAC instead of Opac or opac" is on the Terminology wiki page 16:04 ashimema :) 16:04 Joubu #topic Set time of next meeting 16:04 Joubu #info Next meeting: 24 March 2021 20 UTC 16:04 Joubu #info Next meeting: 24 March 2021, 20 UTC 16:04 Joubu we are going to hit DST soon 16:05 Joubu will adjust later if needed 16:05 Joubu #endmeeting 16:05 huginn Meeting ended Wed Mar 10 16:05:08 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 16:05 huginn Minutes: https://meetings.koha-community.org/2021/development_irc_meeting_10_march_2021.2021-03-10-14.59.html 16:05 huginn Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-community.org/2021/development_irc_meeting_10_march_2021.2021-03-10-14.59.txt 16:05 huginn Log: https://meetings.koha-community.org/2021/development_irc_meeting_10_march_2021.2021-03-10-14.59.log.html 16:05 ashimema :) 16:05 ashimema thanks peeps 16:05 tuxayo thanks Joubu and all 16:06 tuxayo bbl 16:06 cait1 Joubu++ 16:07 caroline_catlady Do we have a separate meeting for the wiki question? 16:08 Joubu it must start on the ML I'd say 16:08 cait1 good point 16:09 ashimema the main thing we need is for it to not get stuck again 16:10 caroline_catlady I'd colunteer to send the email, but I missed the bulk of the conversation 16:10 Joubu bug 27610 16:10 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27610 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wainuiwitikapark, Needs Signoff , Accessibility: OPAC - <h1> on each page is Logo but should be page description/title 16:10 Joubu bug 27742 16:10 caroline_catlady what are the main points? mediawiki is too complicated, dokuwiki is too simple 16:10 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27742 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wainuiwitikapark, Signed Off , Accessibility: OPAC - Page titles should have unique information first 16:10 Joubu they were the ones I was looking for 16:10 caroline_catlady and 2) is it better to start over fresh? 16:11 thd Testing proposals without shutting down the old service would have avoided our subsequent problems long ago. 16:11 cait1 i don't think we are shutting anythign down until a replacement/plan is in place 16:12 cait1 but we have a need to fix this 16:12 caroline_catlady I'll send a starter email and y'all can respond if I'm missing anything. Does that sound good? 16:12 cait1 yep thanks caroline_catlady 16:12 cait1 i think maybe we shoud lask für suggestions on what is easy to use could be an alternative? but not sure 16:12 cait1 it might bring out some good ideas 16:14 thd The shutdown previously was a consequence of LibLime being lost to the community in difficult circumstances. 16:14 Joubu that was 13y ago 16:14 cait1 yes, but we moved over things then too, but software has evolved 16:15 cait1 it#s a good time to look at things that might be more attractive to users 16:17 thd The problem long ago was moving things over without first testing the implementation. 16:19 cait1 i think it served us for a long time, but got too difficult now, people are expecting different things - not using wiki syntax if possible, easier ways to tag etc. 16:19 cait1 and we have an issue with lots of outdated content 16:22 thd Outdated content will always be a problem. It should be marked as such and archived but not deleted. 16:24 cait1 at the moment you can't find the good content, because we keep all and everything, there need to be better ways 16:24 cait1 but that's for the meeting, i actually need to move on to something else ow 16:25 thd I was very close to completing the migration script at the beginniing of last year and then COVID-19 really upended the economy and my life. 16:31 basti_ So, I was assigned to register about 1500 books for a small library. Currently, we can search some public server for the ISBN, import its data, then create a MARC record, then create book records for these. All of this involves a lot of typing and getting things in the correct order. I thought about using the REST API for achieving all of this, merely on entering an ISBN and some additional data. 16:32 basti_ I'm pretty sure that somebody already did something similar, any hints are welcome. 16:41 cait1 there is no batch thing in Koha for this 16:41 cait1 but there is a description i thin on how to do some more batch like cataloguing with marcedit i think 16:42 cait1 the problem can be, that an isbn can not be enough to identify things 16:42 cait1 you need to see if the record is for the print or electronic version 16:42 cait1 which edition etc. they can be different 16:43 * basti_ looks up marcedit 16:48 caroline_catlady wiki email is off... probably not perfect, but feel free to add to the conversation 16:54 ashimema is bug 22544 on a branch somewhere Joubu? 16:54 huginn Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Move C4:NewsChannels to Koha namespace 16:54 ashimema seems to need a rebase :( 16:54 ashimema sorry 17:48 reiveune bye 20:43 KSorbo Is it possible to schedule a report to repeat on an ongoing basis? E.g. weekly or monthly? 20:43 KSorbo I realize that you could do this via a cron on the server side. I am wondering if this is possible via the Admin interface4 20:44 caroline_catlady KSorbo: not from the staff interface, only from the crons 20:44 KSorbo Thanks, caroline. I am kind of surprised this is not possible, given the powerful report system available 20:45 caroline_catlady I'm not sure why... there's a scheduler but it only works once 20:45 caroline_catlady I heard it was a security issue, but I'm nbot sure 20:46 KSorbo Thanks for your input! 22:52 gmcharlt Joubu: done 23:41 CrispyBran is wiki.koha-community.org down?