Time  Nick             Message
04:04 zjmarlow         Hello.  Is there someone here who is familiar with installing on debian?  I did a git clone and made it through make install okay but at the koha-create step I get "Koha instance is empty, no staff user created."  Checking the database shows it is empty (no tables).  Is there supposed to be a file I pass with --defaultsql to koha-create?
07:34 paxed            i haven't checked the recent(ish) versions, but is there a way for staff to move issues.date_due and/or reserves.expirationdate without doing sql? needed occasionally when a library forgets to set closed dates for holidays or whatever ... :P
07:37 reiveune         hello
07:37 wahanui          hello, reiveune
07:44 alex_a           Bonjour
07:45 fridolin         hi
08:00 magnuse          \o/
08:24 cait1            caroline: can we talk about spaces? :)
08:35 ashimema         mornin
08:36 ashimema         hi cait1
08:36 ashimema         back to work today?
09:00 der_smon         hi! is the batch record deletion still in beta or something like that? because it is left out of the documentation (i can only find item deletion docs)
09:08 davidnind        der_smon: see https://koha-community.org/manual/20.11/en/html/tools.html#batch-record-deletion
09:11 der_smon         davidnind: thx :)
09:16 nlegrand         Bonjour !
10:22 tcohen           bonjour!
13:05 Joubu            kidclamp: thanks for the benchmark on bug 5697! So shouldn't we drop the last patch then?
13:06 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5697 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Automatic linking in guided reports
13:06 Joubu            It's sad because the code is (imo) much better like that
13:07 Joubu            but if it adds 30sec for 2k results I don't think it's acceptable
13:54 caroline         cait1: spaces?
13:54 wahanui          spaces are breaking spaces
13:56 * ashimema       reads code for bug 5697
13:56 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5697 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Signed Off , Automatic linking in guided reports
13:58 ashimema         I wonder if we could shift the load to the server?
13:58 ashimema         i.e. build the links in the template with a hidden class on load and only use JS to hide/show them
13:58 ashimema         rather than dynamically adding them to the DOM via JS
14:07 * cait1          glares at kidclamp
14:07 ashimema         ?
14:07 cait1            broke fines
14:07 kidclamp         um..no
14:07 cait1            yep you did for us
14:07 ashimema         oooh.. it wasn't me?
14:08 kidclamp         I changed fines
14:08 cait1            just taking discussion here as it's easier
14:08 kidclamp         :-)
14:08 cait1            for our use case which is mostly weekly fines, we can't charge when the library is closed
14:08 cait1            we need to send the notices the same day the fine accrues
14:08 cait1            meddling with the holidays breaks all that carefully configured things
14:09 cait1            and we don't want to send on days the library is closed before you ask
14:09 ashimema         ooh.. we liked that change here
14:09 cait1            well we don't
14:09 cait1            and it was totally falsely advertised
14:09 cait1            the bugs reads... when finescalendar is set to ignore
14:09 cait1            but it affects when the finescalendar is used
14:09 * ashimema       is confused
14:10 cait1            and the tst plan read:
14:10 cait1            10 - set finesCalendar to 'use' 11 - checkout an item, due yesterday 12 - run fines.pl 13 - no fine assessed
14:10 cait1            so... now it does assess
14:10 cait1            so don't tell me it was intended - something is wrong here :)
14:11 * ashimema       has a cat that really doesn't want to let me read your messages today..  he's sat on my desk chasing the mouse around the screen
14:11 cait1            hehe :)
14:11 ashimema         bug number cait
14:11 cait1            probably because i sound grumpy
14:11 cait1            bug 27180
14:11 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27180 normal, P5 - low, ---, nick, RESOLVED FIXED, Fines cronjob does not update fines on holidays when finesCalendar is set to ignore
14:11 cait1            and bug 27835
14:11 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27835 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Closed days offsets with one day
14:12 cait1            I had too many morning meetings...
14:12 kidclamp         Do you want a switch then? to decide if the cron runs or not?
14:13 kidclamp         Logically I will argue they are the same - book due on Friday - returned on Saturday whether open or not, you didn't return on time and should be charged
14:14 cait1            as I said, we need to time the notices for our use case
14:14 cait1            and people here would ge tupset charged on days they could not return the item
14:14 cait1            it's just a different expectation
14:15 cait1            but it's the same expectation for all our libraries charging fines... so I'd really need the regression for us fixed
14:15 cait1            this is a behavior change backported far into stables
14:15 ashimema         i agree kidc      lamp
14:15 cait1            and the library reporting didn't like it etiher
14:15 Joubu            we could enqueue the letter but delay the sending
14:16 ashimema         darn cat is now attacking my typing hand
14:16 cait1            Joubu: no please
14:16 cait1            print notices also need to be processed
14:16 cait1            i really need them to be dated the same
14:16 cait1            as before
14:16 cait1            no workarounds
14:17 kidclamp         you should blame the person who QAed the bug ;-)
14:17 ashimema         so you send a notice every and any time a fine is incremented?
14:17 cait1            i do
14:17 cait1            me
14:17 cait1            but your tet plan was wrong
14:17 cait1            and the description was wrong too
14:17 cait1            so i blame you too
14:17 kidclamp         but you said it worked ;-)
14:17 cait1            i trusted you too much
14:17 ashimema         lol
14:18 ashimema         I said it was right too ;)
14:18 cait1            yeah, but did you actually check the second test case?
14:18 cait1            like... in the gui?
14:18 cait1            I obviously didn't and yep, i am guilty
14:19 cait1            actually... what the bug says would b right - if the calendar is ignored, you need to charge on closing days
14:19 cait1            but why do we need to charge on days the library was not closed?
14:19 cait1            um
14:20 cait1            why do we charge when the claendar is used on days the library is closed (is what i meant)
14:20 cait1            can we solve your original issue differently?
14:20 cait1            so we don't need another switch that can go wrong
14:28 ashimema         I'm confused
14:28 caroline         cait1: you wanted to talk about spaces? or are you too busy with the fines thing?
14:29 ashimema         so your saying you want to charge on closed days.. but pretend like you don't until you do...
14:30 ashimema         should there be a setting to say whether you support doing dropbox type returns ever or not
14:30 Joubu            ¡dev meeting in 30!
14:30 ashimema         if oyu do, then you hide that fact they might have been charged because they might also have returned the box in a dropbox
14:31 ashimema         mm.. I'm in company meeting now.. but will try to multi-task for the dev meeting
14:31 cait1            caroline: just wondering because I saw a lot of .spacespace at the endof sentences in translation suddenly
14:31 cait1            the old text/manual doesn't have these
14:31 caroline         it's an old way of typing
14:31 cait1            ashimema: no, i want no charges on closed days ever
14:32 tuxayo           meeting in 30min!
14:32 kidclamp         days_between calculates as '1' when startdate is yesterday and enddate is today and today is a holiday - we could it subtract 1 if enddate is a holiday (we do subtract 1 if startdate is a holiday)
14:33 cait1            if we calculate opening days that would make sense to me
14:33 cait1            on first glance
14:33 cait1            but days_between is a global thing? i mean would it effect other things or are we still in fines.pl?
14:33 kidclamp         but we should only do that if finescalendar, and yes, we hsould probably do it on the return in CalcFine
14:35 cait1            that sounds like it would work
14:35 cait1            in the past the fines.pl skipped... and usually no returns where taking place on closed days, but it makes more sense to have it where the fine i calculated actually
14:36 kidclamp         # start and end should not be closed days - days betwen has that too
14:38 kidclamp         question though - book due friday - we are closed saturday, but book returned saturday- should there be a charge?
14:38 kidclamp         because you didn't return on friday
14:39 ashimema         there's loads of tests written for that area of code I believe... Joubu and I worked through it allot fairly recently
14:41 kidclamp         kk, will submit something for review shortly
14:48 cait1            no
14:49 cait1            kidclamp: due date is usually friday 23:59
14:49 cait1            and then the next day is closed
14:49 cait1            so yu are not actually late before sunsay morning (if the library is open then)
14:49 kidclamp         but you are, you returned it after it was due
14:50 cait1            if you return on saturday
14:50 kidclamp         there is no scenario in which you return it before friday at 23:59
14:50 cait1            yo used a bookbox i assume?
14:50 cait1            so the date wuld be backdated to friday
14:50 cait1            it would be as IF you retunred it on freiday
14:50 kidclamp         and wouldn't be charged
14:50 cait1            yep
14:50 kidclamp         but if you didn't dropbox I mean
14:50 cait1            the old behavior was to not charge
14:51 cait1            and i stand with that :)
14:51 cait1            here we expect the charge on the next opening day
14:51 tuxayo           Meeting in 10!
14:51 cait1            the fines.pl is usually run before the library opens, then it's charged
14:51 cait1            letters and emails are processed
14:52 kidclamp         with calcfineonreturn you would have been charged
14:52 cait1            hmm
14:52 kidclamp         these are edge cases, not (entirely) trying to  aggravate you :-P
14:52 cait1            we don't use that actually so there was always a mismatch in behaviour
14:52 cait1            but we didn't notice
14:53 cait1            i think because daily fines are not really a thing here
14:53 cait1            we only have a very few doing that for overnights
14:54 cait1            the standard use case here is always a weekly increase
14:54 cait1            with a grace period that can differ
14:54 cait1            many years ago it was mandatory for the libraries to charge that way, so that's why we have that here i think
14:56 cait1            and overdue notices going out the same day as the fine is applied
14:59 Joubu            gmcharlt: can you add '2021' to the meetings.k-c.org header please?
14:59 Joubu            #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 10 March 2021
14:59 huginn           Meeting started Wed Mar 10 14:59:49 2021 UTC.  The chair is Joubu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:59 huginn           Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
14:59 huginn           The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_10_march_2021'
14:59 Joubu            qa_team?
14:59 wahanui          qa_team is cait, dcook, amoyano, ashimema, marcelr, kohaputti, jajm, tcohen, josef_moravec, kidclamp, khall and tuxayo
14:59 Joubu            rmaints?
14:59 wahanui          rmaints is fridolin, AndrewFH and tuxayo
15:00 Joubu            #topic Introductions
15:00 Joubu            #info Jonathan Druart
15:00 kidclamp         #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
15:00 tuxayo           #info tuxayo/Victor Grousset, France
15:00 Joubu            #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_10_March_2021
15:00 AndrewFH         #info Andrew Fuerste-Henry, ByWater Solutions
15:01 thd              #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
15:02 Joubu            cait1, tcohen, ashimema?
15:02 fridolin         #info Fridolin, Biblibre, France
15:02 Joubu            #topic Announcements
15:02 Joubu            Anyone have something?
15:02 ashimema         #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe
15:02 Joubu            I have, but will keep them for the 'update from RM' topic
15:03 ashimema         Apologies, juggling two meetings right now
15:03 Joubu            this one is more important, ashimema :D
15:03 ashimema         #info PTFS Europe sandboxes now support installation of German, French, Spanish, Greek and Dutch translations.
15:03 fridolin         ++
15:03 tuxayo           yay!*
15:03 ashimema         will poke bywater to grab the patches for theirs too
15:04 ashimema         no other anouncements I can think of
15:04 Joubu            #topic Update from the Release Manager (21.05)
15:04 Joubu            I will be fast, send "!" if you want me to stop
15:04 Joubu            #info There is now a --run-tests option to the QA script to run the tests modified by the patchset
15:05 Joubu            Some changes on the CI:
15:05 ashimema         Joubu++
15:05 Joubu            #info we now have a new docker_7 node
15:05 tuxayo           QA, CI: nice!
15:05 cait1            #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
15:05 Joubu            #info There is a "light test suite" that is run by Jenkins for most of the job (apart from D10) - checkout https://tree.taiga.io/project/koha-ils/task/102 for more info
15:06 Joubu            * Great cleanup on the YAML module, we are now only using YAML::XS everywhere (see bug 27673 and bug 22824).
15:06 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27673 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Replace YAML with YAML::XS
15:06 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22824 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , Replace YAML::Syck with YAML::XS
15:06 Joubu            It impacts how boolean sysprefs are read/written as we are getting rid of the (incorrect) ImplicitTyping behaviours.
15:06 Joubu            * Bug 27829
15:06 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27829 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [OMNIBUS] Remove specific LANG installer data
15:06 Joubu            There are patches on bug 27621, bug 27623, bug 27624, and bug 27625. But others will need to be removed/adjusted.
15:06 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27621 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Passed QA , Remove it-IT installer data
15:06 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27623 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Remove pl-PL installer data
15:06 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27624 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Remove ru-RU installer data
15:06 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27625 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Remove uk-UA installer data
15:06 Joubu            If you are using fr-FR, fr-CA or nb-NO, you should go ahead and help the move to the new system.
15:06 Joubu            A goal would be to have them ALL removed for 21.11
15:06 Joubu            You will certainly do it better than me as it needs mediculous work and good knowledge of the different files (which I don't have).
15:07 tuxayo           !
15:07 Joubu            I will propose to abandon and deprecate the remaining languages for the 21.11 dev cycle (ie. no more changes to specific language files, that may broke the installer).
15:07 tuxayo           > A goal would be to have them ALL
15:07 tuxayo           Are there for all languages?
15:07 ashimema         nice one
15:07 cait1            Joubu: we have known issues with different item config in the UNIMARC setups... so that will be harder. And UNIMARC is not on Pootle yet.
15:07 Joubu            yes, that's part of the 'plan' (which does not exist yet)
15:07 cait1            tuxayo: they can be in the future, but not now. the new system will make it mouch more less technical to add any language we want
15:07 Joubu            we will have to work on the UNIMARC setup
15:07 Joubu            maybe we should pick the one from fr-FR?
15:08 cait1            i have been thinking about that
15:08 tuxayo           So all language need to have those installer files removed?
15:08 cait1            i think we need to keep an eye on the biblionumber link and the item mappings especially
15:08 cait1            it's much less standardized for UNIMARC, but it would be a chance to consolidate
15:08 cait1            tuxayo: yes, we are removing the language specific sql files as a goal
15:09 tuxayo           ok thanks
15:09 cait1            tuxayo: so if you want sample data in your language, you can tanslate them on pootle and they will be generated from yaml files and the po
15:09 cait1            which also means that when adding a new notice you will only have to change the yml file in the future
15:09 Joubu            we will need help from BibLibre for sure, and French users (at least)
15:09 cait1            instead of changing all the installer file
15:09 cait1            s
15:09 Joubu            maybe also ping other UNIMARC users
15:09 ashimema         we need a hackfest
15:09 ashimema         best time to get biblibre onboard ;)
15:09 cait1            toot rue
15:10 Joubu            fridolin: ^
15:10 Joubu            keep that in mind, I will catch you soon ;)
15:10 * fridolin       i'm cool nothing realy different
15:10 Joubu            fr-FR is a mess :D
15:10 fridolin         ah ouch yep
15:11 fridolin         i'll see with nlegrand
15:11 ashimema         fridolin++
15:11 Joubu            moving on?
15:11 cait1            yes
15:11 Joubu            * bug 25078 - I still wish to see more discussion on that one. Does everybody agree with the last comments between jajm and me?
15:11 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25078 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , Update DB process - wrap each DBRev inside a transaction and better error handling
15:11 fridolin         ahhh installer ok
15:12 Joubu            then I have update for the roadmap, in a couple of minutes
15:12 ashimema         I agree
15:12 Joubu            #topic Updates from the Release Maintainers
15:12 ashimema         keep this patch small and simple (just transactions and reporting back more nicely)
15:13 ashimema         and move the idea's about splitting it up into files and handling versioning differently into the other bug
15:13 tuxayo           RMaint: nothing in particular to say
15:13 Joubu            ashimema: I will try to split them on that one, to avoid having to deal with the each dbrev twice
15:14 ashimema         brill :)
15:14 ashimema         I'd love ot see the AV translations stuff move forward too.. but not sure how to unstick it.
15:14 Joubu            RMaints, use the move atomic update from bug 27903, it's awesome and easy to use )
15:14 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27903 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , Script to move atomic updates to updatedatabase.pl
15:14 ashimema         sorry.. RMaint updates
15:14 ashimema         RMaints?
15:14 wahanui          RMaints is fridolin, AndrewFH and tuxayo
15:15 AndrewFH         Nothing of import from me, thanks :)
15:15 Joubu            #topic Updates from the QA team
15:15 ashimema         #info More QA needed... always more QA needed :P
15:16 ashimema         cait?
15:16 wahanui          cait is really good at running into things
15:16 Joubu            spread the load!
15:16 ashimema         indeed
15:16 tuxayo           > running into things
15:16 tuxayo           Me too T_T
15:17 Joubu            ok
15:18 Joubu            #info Status of roadmap projects
15:18 Joubu            #link https://annuel.framapad.org/p/koha_21.05_roadmap
15:18 Joubu            same, '!' to stop me
15:18 cait1            spread the load - and please QA :)
15:18 cait1            and don't break stuff!
15:18 cait1            sorry to be late
15:18 Joubu            bug 15278
15:18 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15278 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, NEW , Port default slips and notices from bespoke syntax to Template Toolkit
15:18 Joubu            Started too late and won't be part of 21.05.
15:18 Joubu            postponed to 21.11
15:18 cait1            will you mark it accordingly?
15:18 Joubu            bug 24975
15:18 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24975 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, In Discussion , Refactor database translations
15:18 Joubu            No real focus on it, won't certainly be ready for 21.05
15:18 Joubu            yes cait1
15:18 Joubu            ashimema: ?
15:19 Joubu            we discussed it (jajm, ashimema and me)
15:19 Joubu            it took too long to start and I'm afraid we won't have time to finish (even start..) for 21.05
15:19 Joubu            we are still disagreeing on how we should implemen tit
15:19 cait1            sad, but i can see that
15:19 cait1            can we give it a prio boost for 21.11?
15:20 Joubu            can try
15:20 ashimema         sorry.. had to talk in my other meeting
15:20 ashimema         reading ujp
15:20 Joubu            * Transfer improvement
15:21 Joubu            bug 22569 has been pushed, the next on the list are bug 27281 and bug 27896
15:21 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22569 new feature, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Passed QA , Add a 'Transfers to send' report
15:21 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27281 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Needs Signoff , Replace call to `C4::Circulation::DeleteTransfer` with `Koha::Item::Transfer->cancel({ comment => $comment })` in `C4::Circulation::LostItem`
15:21 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27896 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, Needs Signoff , Remove C4::Circulation::DeleteTransfer
15:21 Joubu            it is moving fast
15:21 ashimema         I am working slowly through bits of notices stuff.. but they're not directly related.. more things that i felt need fixing first.
15:21 Joubu            ha 22569 is not pushed actually
15:22 ashimema         yeah.. 33569 is PQA but not pushed yet ;)
15:22 Joubu            will be soon
15:22 cait1            I hope to spend more time with tarnsfers
15:22 cait1            I tried to also work on the checkin checks for branch transfers... but got lost
15:22 ashimema         the other two are the next two.. I don't want to end up with such a big tree of outstanding for phase 2
15:22 cait1            commented and waiting for feedback
15:22 ashimema         so I'll code and submit.. then wait for SO/QA rather than continuing with the next bugs.
15:23 ashimema         where did you comment cait1.. was it aimed at me.. I tihnk I must have missed it
15:23 cait1            ashimema: not on yours, arthur's
15:23 ashimema         :)
15:23 Joubu            * Performance investigation (compare 20.11 and 17.11)
15:24 Joubu            The main work here is bug 27344, which needs more attention as it's an important bit. It would be nice to have another dev involved to get additional points of view.
15:24 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27344 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , Implement Elastic's update_index_background using Koha::BackgroundJob
15:24 Joubu            * Git repository shrinking
15:24 Joubu            I've started it, but I am stuck. I will send Martin an email soon to discuss it.
15:24 ashimema         Agreed, would be good to get more eyes on performance
15:24 Joubu            Git gurus are welcome to join the party!
15:24 ashimema         I have been meaning to help work on some task queue patches to help that move.. jsut haven't found a moment.
15:24 ashimema         happy to help where I can Joubu
15:25 ashimema         more git guru's would be great
15:25 Joubu            and *when*
15:25 Joubu            * Release tools improvement
15:25 Joubu            Still planned for a bit later in the cycle
15:25 Joubu            * Improve our "news" module
15:25 ashimema         +1
15:25 tcohen           #info Tomas Cohen Arazi, Theke Solutions
15:25 Joubu            Signoff is needed here, please? bug 22544
15:25 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Move C4:NewsChannels to Koha namespace
15:25 Joubu            This is only the first step and there are interesting changes to implement here, but we need this first step in!
15:26 ashimema         I'll grab it for SO or QA.. anyone here want to volunteer for the one I don't do?
15:26 Joubu            Josef disappeared so it's ashimema and cait1
15:26 cait1            ok
15:26 cait1            sounds doable,b ut not quite sure when, I will try
15:26 ashimema         will look at it this week.. maybe even after this meeting
15:26 cait1            not unhappy if someone beeats me to it
15:27 Joubu            * Fix OPACHiddenItems - Bug 24403
15:27 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24403 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , [OMNIBUS] OpacHiddenItems should hide items everywhere in the OPAC
15:27 Joubu            It has moved quickly then is a bit stuck right now. There is no trivial changes to implement, like adding the "hidden at the OPAC" info to the search engine index.
15:27 Joubu            tcohen: something to add?
15:28 Joubu            * Handling of errors 500 (it's actually "better handling of error pages")
15:28 ashimema         I'd like to join a task force on that one.. but perhaps it's one to get back to for 21.11 ?
15:28 ashimema         hidden that is..
15:28 cait1            there are some spots independent of zebra/elastic that we could still fix i think, but there are API questions as well
15:28 cait1            thinking of the top issues that are built from an sql query for an example
15:30 cait1            also talking about hidden items actually :)
15:30 Joubu            top issues look like a tricky one
15:31 Joubu            we need a plan for this one in order to know where we are going and what's left (asking that for a couple of months)
15:31 Joubu            ok so
15:31 Joubu            * Handling of errors 500 (it's actually "better handling of error pages")
15:31 Joubu            There are 3 bugs that are waiting for patches. David abandonned the ship and let me alone on this one.
15:31 Joubu            I will try to find some time and submit patches. Will be good to have a tester and/or QA along with me (at least for motivation)
15:31 Joubu            * Developer handbook and documentation
15:31 Joubu            Abandonned for 21.05. There is no real desire (or at least to make some time) to work on it
15:32 cait1            I think last discussine nded with the idea of maybe restarting the wiki
15:32 Joubu            (that's not nice but that's true heh)
15:32 cait1            i think the clena up woul be a lot easier if we had the categories and such better working again
15:32 cait1            the old mediawiki is no fun and makes it probably harder for us than it needs to be
15:32 ashimema         agreed
15:33 cait1            we coudl mark pages oudated, needing work etc and bult up some process there
15:33 ashimema         I don't really have the brain space for it right now.. fighting with the wiki just adds to that
15:33 Joubu            yes but saying we should start a bigger work to start documenting things does not feel right
15:33 cait1            that would help people navigate as well
15:33 ashimema         I was however tempted to add a couple of micro documentation sites.. one for a more public api documentation
15:33 ashimema         and one for more clear notes on developing plugins
15:34 cait1            i was considering starting a a manuelly created list of pages
15:34 ashimema         I think those are more manageable as self contained things
15:34 cait1            but thought i might be a little insane... and we really hsoud use tags/categories probably
15:34 ashimema         and would market Koha well from a 'Koha is still relevant and modern' perspective
15:34 cait1            where would you put it?
15:34 cait1            i think we actually have good stuff hidden in the wiki, but it's very often not found
15:34 cait1            hidden in the pile
15:35 cait1            so we could think about having a nicer entry page maybe for a start that lists the often needed things in a nice way...
15:35 ashimema         I was thinking of using the gitlab pages stuff..
15:35 cait1            not a total solution, but it might be helpful on the front page
15:35 ashimema         and then asking for api.koha-community.org
15:35 Joubu            so, plan for 21.11 would be 1. archive the wiki, 2. start from scratch with a better one, 3. Retrieve what is still valid/useful
15:35 cait1            that coudl be
15:35 cait1            yep
15:35 ashimema         and possible dev.koha-community.org
15:35 cait1            and maybe I will somehow find time to do some sorting and marking before
15:36 cait1            makes sense
15:36 ashimema         +1 for archive the existing wiki and stat fresh migrating only what we actually think is really useful
15:36 * ashimema       even wonders if mediawiki is just too big and complex for our uses
15:37 thd              If I could not have time for the greater goal I would work on updating the archive of the wiki.
15:37 cait1            we used to have a dokuwiki, but both require a special syntax
15:37 tuxayo           Do other wikis have categories?
15:37 cait1            i think something with a more easy flow of things when entering would be more inviting
15:37 thd              Things need tags for findability.
15:38 thd              The biggest problem with Dokuwiki was that there was no means to find untagged pages.
15:38 cait1            wysiwyg coudl lower the barrier some... abut also need good versioning
15:39 Joubu            anyone willing to investigate the different alternatives we have (with a cons/pros list)?
15:39 cait1            I don't kow the market really... we use something proprietory at work, so experience is limtied
15:39 ashimema         modern mediawiki is much easier wysiwyg wise
15:40 cait1            but we came from dokuwik and the easier handling for editing tables and the like made all the difference to get more people involved
15:40 tuxayo           Need to install an additional service on the sever IIUC for the wysiwyg editor
15:40 cait1            something for a separate meeting maybe
15:40 Joubu            yes!
15:40 Joubu            moving on
15:40 cait1            yep sorry :)
15:40 Joubu            #topic Automated updates for translated manuals
15:40 Joubu            ashimema: ?
15:40 Joubu            any updates on that?
15:41 ashimema         Well.. we got the space on the server expanded so that builds started working again
15:41 tuxayo           wizzyrea++
15:41 ashimema         and the tool now triggers proper gitlab merge requests
15:41 ashimema         and...
15:41 ashimema         as of a couple of days ago I added a cronjob to trigger that tool to run once a month a few days after release
15:42 cait1            oooooh nice
15:42 cait1            ashimema++
15:42 ashimema         so we should get translation merge requests a few days after koha release.. so at least it'll get updated monthly
15:42 ashimema         as for automating it more.. I think perhaps lets wait and see how much things change each month for a little while
15:42 tuxayo           ashimema++
15:43 ashimema         we will however end up with the same mess the koha repo has.. translations mixed in add to the git girth.
15:43 cait1            I am currently translating the 20.11 german manual, so there shoudl be something next itme
15:43 ashimema         be nice to have translations in their own repo in the future
15:43 Joubu            great, I let you adjust the roadmap for this topic
15:43 ashimema         will do
15:43 Joubu            ashimema: that's the plan with "git splitting"
15:43 ashimema         indeed
15:43 Joubu            * Koha Cookbook Project
15:44 Joubu            Meeting planned next Friday (12th)! See the Koha agenda for the time.
15:44 ashimema         be great to do the same for the manual repo once we have our heads wrapped around it :)
15:44 Joubu            #topic Actions from last meeting
15:44 Joubu            #info amoyano advertise Bug 15522 and ask the list for feedback [after 20.11 is released], setup a sandbox, etc.
15:44 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15522 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Patch doesn't apply , New interface for revamped circulation rules
15:45 Joubu            tcohen: I stop postponing this one, I let you readd it if needed
15:45 Joubu            #info General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
15:45 Joubu            #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...)
15:45 Joubu            #topic Systemd, Containerisation, Packaging, Other... we need a long term goal and roadmap for these things. - Bug 25674
15:45 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=25674 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to master , Add RabbitMQ options to koha-create
15:46 Joubu            ashimema: there are 3 topics coming from you
15:46 Joubu            #info we need a long term goal and roadmap
15:46 Joubu            (lol)
15:46 ashimema         indeed there are
15:47 Joubu            sorry, a bit sarcastic here, but we know that :)
15:47 ashimema         hehe
15:47 ashimema         indeed
15:47 ashimema         basically.. on the rebbitmq stuff we seem to be working in various opposing directions and I got lost
15:48 ashimema         do we need a systemd file or not.. how do we get things to startup as expected in the various installs
15:48 ashimema         should rabbitmq be a require in the packages or an optional...
15:48 ashimema         should the workers be part of core.. or in their own container, own package so you can install them on other machines and scale horizontally.
15:48 ashimema         right now.. it's a mess and needs some clarity
15:49 Joubu            we discussed some of that already
15:49 ashimema         that's what this question was asking
15:49 Joubu            rabbitmq is suggested, we created additional packages to fit the different needs
15:49 ashimema         did we answer some of them and document it.
15:49 Joubu            ok
15:49 Joubu            how/where do we start the discussion?
15:50 ashimema         :(
15:50 cait1            i think we did discuss, it might be a case of lack of documenting
15:50 cait1            i remember about koha-core etc
15:51 Joubu            if we don't get more people involved more closely and regularly in the documentation and development process it will be hard to discuss such discussions anyway
15:51 ashimema         perhaps the whole "lets make a koha-core" etc stuff should be one of the next cycles goals
15:51 ashimema         and we should form a small working group to work out what we want, document it.. and then work towards it
15:51 Joubu            it's done
15:51 Joubu            we have the different packages, and it will be documented in the 21.05 release notes
15:51 ashimema         ok
15:51 Joubu            as "big tech changes in 21.05"
15:51 cait1            can we also update the pacakge information in the wiki please?
15:52 ashimema         ok.. so which package does the worker sit in?
15:52 Joubu            koha-full
15:52 * fridolin       like service koha-worker@
15:53 fridolin         i'm on building sercives koha-plack@opac and @staff
15:53 Joubu            which wiki page cait? "install on debian"?
15:53 ashimema         I think maybe I just need someone to walk me through the plan at the next hackfest.. I'm sure it would sink into my brain better with a pint in hand
15:53 cait1            there is one describing the different stable unstabel etc
15:53 cait1            maybe link from that
15:53 cait1            i will look
15:53 cait1            also... we are building our own packages - does the proecess change in that case? i guess so
15:54 Joubu            I don't find it
15:54 cait1            https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Packages
15:54 ashimema         sounds like it's more under control than I thought thought.. so yeah.. happy to concede and someone can explain how it's all meant to fit together to me at some point.. haha
15:54 cait1            https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Packages_-_The_Easy_Way
15:55 cait1            https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/How_was_my_Koha_installed (how to figure out which package?)
15:55 Joubu            it's not listing the different packages the community provide
15:55 cait1            https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Dependencies
15:56 cait1            thee is tons on packages... that's one of our problems :) too scattered
15:56 ashimema         this just highlights the need to tidy up the wiki again
15:56 cait1            yep
15:56 cait1            exactly
15:56 cait1            i can group stuff, but i can#t really merge it myself... so I got stuck there
15:57 Joubu            we need another page to list the different packages :D
15:58 Joubu            #action mtj write something about the new packages for the 21.05 release notes
15:58 cait1            lol
15:58 Joubu            has to move on
15:58 cait1            but if that works i am happy ;)
15:58 Joubu            #topic Should we add a coding guideline to clarify our message types: 'alert' vs 'error' - Bug 27695
15:58 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27695 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Failed QA , Fix style of messages on Elasticsearch configuration page
15:58 Joubu            yes we should
15:59 Joubu            #action ashimema Write a coding guideline to clarify our message types: 'alert' vs 'error' (context of bug 27695)
15:59 ashimema         So.. it was highligted to me recently that we have somewhat of a pattern for passing back 'messages' form methods.
15:59 ashimema         but we don't have a guidelines for the 'types'
15:59 Joubu            #topic We should reverse our 'title' elements - Bug 26703
15:59 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=26703 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wainuiwitikapark, Needs Signoff , We should reconsider best practice for our title elements
15:59 ashimema         we should :)
15:59 ashimema         brill
15:59 Joubu            this is high priority (marking as such)
16:00 Joubu            we need to help that bug
16:00 ashimema         ok.. same again really... we need a guidelines so that we don't introduce new breakages once wainuiwitikpark has fixed all the current cases
16:00 ashimema         yeah
16:00 ashimema         I've been helping a little in terms of guiding them.. but trying not to take over too much
16:00 Joubu            there was another on
16:00 Joubu            cannot remember
16:00 ashimema         brill.. looks ready for testing now :)
16:01 Joubu            will see after the meeting
16:01 ashimema         hehe
16:01 Joubu            #action Joubu we need to push 26703 asap
16:01 ashimema         OK.. I'll draft up guidelines for both of those to vote in next meeting :)
16:02 Joubu            #action ashimema Write a guideline for 26703
16:02 ashimema         I don't think either is contentious :)
16:02 Joubu            #topic Review of coding guidelines
16:02 Joubu            #topic On last meeting (24 feb) it was voted "using OPAC instead of Opac or opac", but it was forgotten to find someone to phrase it and add it to the guidelines.
16:03 Joubu            #action ashimema write a guideline about using "OPAC instead of Opac or opac"
16:03 tuxayo           Wait, it's already in terminology
16:03 tuxayo           davidnind++
16:03 tuxayo           Moving on!
16:03 Joubu            indeed!
16:03 Joubu            #info "OPAC instead of Opac or opac" is on the Terminology wiki page
16:04 ashimema         :)
16:04 Joubu            #topic Set time of next meeting
16:04 Joubu            #info Next meeting: 24 March 2021 20 UTC
16:04 Joubu            #info Next meeting: 24 March 2021, 20 UTC
16:04 Joubu            we are going to hit DST soon
16:05 Joubu            will adjust later if needed
16:05 Joubu            #endmeeting
16:05 huginn           Meeting ended Wed Mar 10 16:05:08 2021 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
16:05 huginn           Minutes:        https://meetings.koha-community.org/2021/development_irc_meeting_10_march_2021.2021-03-10-14.59.html
16:05 huginn           Minutes (text): https://meetings.koha-community.org/2021/development_irc_meeting_10_march_2021.2021-03-10-14.59.txt
16:05 huginn           Log:            https://meetings.koha-community.org/2021/development_irc_meeting_10_march_2021.2021-03-10-14.59.log.html
16:05 ashimema         :)
16:05 ashimema         thanks peeps
16:05 tuxayo           thanks Joubu and all
16:06 tuxayo           bbl
16:06 cait1            Joubu++
16:07 caroline_catlady Do we have a separate meeting for the wiki question?
16:08 Joubu            it must start on the ML I'd say
16:08 cait1            good point
16:09 ashimema         the main thing we need is for it to not get stuck again
16:10 caroline_catlady I'd colunteer to send the email, but I missed the bulk of the conversation
16:10 Joubu            bug 27610
16:10 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27610 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wainuiwitikapark, Needs Signoff , Accessibility: OPAC - <h1> on each page is Logo but should be page description/title
16:10 Joubu            bug 27742
16:10 caroline_catlady what are the main points? mediawiki is too complicated, dokuwiki is too simple
16:10 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27742 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wainuiwitikapark, Signed Off , Accessibility: OPAC - Page titles should have unique information first
16:10 Joubu            they were the ones I was looking for
16:10 caroline_catlady and 2) is it better to start over fresh?
16:11 thd              Testing proposals without shutting down the old service would have avoided our subsequent problems long ago.
16:11 cait1            i don't think we are shutting anythign down until a replacement/plan is in place
16:12 cait1            but we have a need to fix this
16:12 caroline_catlady I'll send a starter email and y'all can respond if I'm missing anything. Does that sound good?
16:12 cait1            yep thanks caroline_catlady
16:12 cait1            i think maybe we shoud lask für suggestions on what is easy to use could be an alternative? but not sure
16:12 cait1            it might bring out some good ideas
16:14 thd              The shutdown previously was a consequence of LibLime being lost to the community in difficult circumstances.
16:14 Joubu            that was 13y ago
16:14 cait1            yes, but we moved over things then too, but software has evolved
16:15 cait1            it#s a good time to look at things that might be more attractive to users
16:17 thd              The problem long ago was moving things over without first testing the implementation.
16:19 cait1            i think it served us for a long time, but got too difficult now, people are expecting different things - not using wiki syntax if possible, easier ways to tag etc.
16:19 cait1            and we have an issue with lots of outdated content
16:22 thd              Outdated content will always be a problem.  It should be marked as such and archived but not deleted.
16:24 cait1            at the moment you can't find the good content, because we keep all and everything, there need to be better ways
16:24 cait1            but that's for the meeting, i actually need to move on to something else ow
16:25 thd              I was very close to completing the migration script at the beginniing of last year and then COVID-19 really upended the economy and my life.
16:31 basti_           So, I was assigned to register about 1500 books for a small library. Currently, we can search some public server for the ISBN, import its data, then create a MARC record, then create book records for these. All of this involves a lot of typing and getting things in the correct order. I thought about using the REST API for achieving all of this, merely on entering an ISBN and some additional data.
16:32 basti_           I'm pretty sure that somebody already did something similar, any hints are welcome.
16:41 cait1            there is no batch thing in Koha for this
16:41 cait1            but there is a description i thin on how to do some more batch like cataloguing with marcedit i think
16:42 cait1            the problem can be, that an isbn can not be enough to identify things
16:42 cait1            you need to see if the record is for the print or electronic version
16:42 cait1            which edition etc. they can be different
16:43 * basti_         looks up marcedit
16:48 caroline_catlady wiki email is off... probably not perfect, but feel free to add to the conversation
16:54 ashimema         is bug 22544 on a branch somewhere Joubu?
16:54 huginn           Bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Move C4:NewsChannels to Koha namespace
16:54 ashimema         seems to need a rebase :(
16:54 ashimema         sorry
17:48 reiveune         bye
20:43 KSorbo           Is it possible to schedule a report to repeat on an ongoing basis? E.g. weekly or monthly?
20:43 KSorbo           I realize that you could do this via a cron on the server side. I am wondering if this is possible via the Admin interface4
20:44 caroline_catlady KSorbo: not from the staff interface, only from the crons
20:44 KSorbo           Thanks, caroline. I am kind of surprised this is not possible, given the powerful report system available
20:45 caroline_catlady I'm not sure why... there's a scheduler but it only works once
20:45 caroline_catlady I heard it was a security issue, but I'm nbot sure
20:46 KSorbo           Thanks for your input!
22:52 gmcharlt         Joubu: done
23:41 CrispyBran       is wiki.koha-community.org down?