Time  Nick          Message
07:19 magnuse       \o/
07:23 TimothyAlexis Hello, good morning and good evening.
07:25 TimothyAlexis We are using 2 languages in Koha, 'en' and 'sv-SE', is it possible to get these?
07:25 TimothyAlexis in code.
07:32 alex_a        Bonjour
07:35 reiveune      hello
07:51 TimothyAlexis I found that I can use C4::Context->preference('opaclanguages'), is there a better option?
08:04 ashimema      what do you mean by 'in code' ?
08:04 ashimema      what for..
08:04 ashimema      a plugin?
08:04 ashimema      or a core feature
08:04 ashimema      TimothyAlexis: ^
08:07 * cait1       waves
08:08 cait1         qa email delayed today, will send around lunch break
08:11 TimothyAlexis It's for a plugin
08:11 ashimema      https://koha-community.gitlab.io/KohaAdvent/2020-12-08-translate-plugin/
08:12 ashimema      might be worth a quick read
08:12 ashimema      are you looking for the full list of installed languages or the currently active language
08:13 ashimema      there are various methods in C4::Languages if you're doing more than just adding translations to a plugin
08:14 cait1         TimothyAlexis: I didn't have time yet to check closely, but would like to have another look at the statute-barred script
08:14 cait1         ah the other laptop shut down... one cait less
08:14 ashimema      +1, I have a busy day today, but that one was on my list
08:14 cait          yeah busy here too, starting with a long meeting in 15 :(
08:15 TimothyAlexis cait1 It doesn't matter, we solved it locally and we will probably get back to that habit as my colleagues had been doing for about 1½ years before I started working here and thought we could contribute to community.
08:16 cait          i think you can contribute and you hsould not let it spoil for you
08:16 cait          we are all people and sometimes things go the wrong way - but most of the time things can be resolved
08:17 cait          I for one am happy to have you around and see the input
08:22 ashimema      That's upsetting to hear TimothyAlexis
08:22 ashimema      I tend to agree with cait, you're better in than out and in general people are nice...
08:23 ashimema      most times things go wrong in my experience are when cultures clash, things get lost in translation (not just language but online vs in person communication)
08:23 TimothyAlexis I spent 2 weeks on something that was worth 2 minutes and at the end the only contribution I had made was to insult someone.
08:23 ashimema      and.. the simple fact that Koha is massive.. with a really long history.
08:23 ashimema      remind my of the bug number..
08:23 ashimema      I'll make some time now to take a look
08:24 TimothyAlexis I'm in a meeting now, will need to finish this first.
08:24 ashimema      k
08:24 cait          we'll be here :)
08:32 * ashimema    has no idea what 'Status Barred' means.. it's not a term here
08:34 cait          explained in the comments :)
08:34 cait          i looked it up, it is in deed an english term
08:35 ashimema      I'm reading all the comments still
08:35 ashimema      it's a long thread
08:42 cait          yeah, i didn' get to that yet
08:42 cait          in department meeting
08:42 cait          wrong window too :)
08:43 ashimema      lol
09:16 Joubu         @later tell rangi can you generate the 20.11 schema for schema.k-c.org please?
09:16 huginn        Joubu: The operation succeeded.
09:17 cait          hm got an issue here I have no idea about... maybe some of you got an an idea?
09:17 cait          we have a library that lends out laptops, lots of holds, lots of items for 2 branches
09:18 Joubu         @later tell rangi there is also a PR for the dashboard to merge (20.11 update)
09:18 wahanui       okay, Joubu.
09:18 huginn        Joubu: The operation succeeded.
09:18 cait          currently 8 holds
09:18 cait          and ... for unknown reasons the priority 1 person doesn't get the laptop that is checked in at their branch
09:18 cait          but number 4 in the list gets triggered
09:18 cait          I have looked at the item - it's nothing special, home and holdingbranch are at the library that is pickup and homebranch of the patron
09:18 cait          i looked at the hold on db level
09:19 cait          it's a normal record level hold, no hold date in the future or similar
09:19 cait          the priorities are all nicely sequentially numbered
09:19 cait          ... which leaves me with NO IDEA. :(
09:20 Joubu         how do you know that it's the 4th that has been triggered?
09:20 cait          because they checked the laptop item in and then "ignored" the hold
09:20 cait          we canr eproduce it that way
09:21 cait          same happens when we check it in now for testing and ignore - again and again
09:21 Joubu         you can reproduce the problem?
09:21 cait          yes
09:21 Joubu         on master?
09:21 cait          no
09:21 Joubu         on another specific version?
09:21 cait          for this library for now.... as i have no clue what's going on yet, we haven't been able to see if it happens elsewhere
09:21 Joubu         on just this one production server? :)
09:21 cait          18.11.13
09:21 cait          yep
09:21 cait          so far
09:22 cait          ok 18.11.16 actually
09:22 cait          I know it's old... but i really need to figure out what's going on there
09:23 cait          hlds not filled in the right sequence is kind of a big issue :)
09:23 cait          prio number 4 who gets the item looks the same as the ones that are ignored - same home library etc.
09:24 Joubu         always 4th?
09:25 cait          it doesn't appear to happen on other items there - so not sure
09:25 cait          there are not many with so many holds, the laptops are a high-demand item
09:26 Joubu         how many holds?
09:26 Joubu         10, 100, 1000?
09:26 cait          currently 8
09:26 cait          so not that many
09:27 cait          9 holds currently for 70 items
09:32 Joubu         sorry, no idea and cannot recreate :-/
09:35 cait          Joubu: thx for trying :)
09:35 cait          which is the method called for triggering a hold?
09:35 cait          maybe staring at the bit of code will give me an idea
09:42 Joubu         cait: it's C4::Reserves::CheckReserves called from AddReturn
09:44 Joubu         Is LocalHoldsPriority on?
09:53 Joubu         @later tell tcohen Do you think we can accept 26742 as it or should we require the changes to koha-create, makefile, etc.?
09:53 huginn        Joubu: The operation succeeded.
09:56 cait          Joubu: no, but the patrons in question are all from the same branches anyway :(
10:02 TimothyAlexis cait my intention is to contribute where I can. If I'm adding some simple functionality where there already is similar functionality, then I think it's viable to simply align with the standard that is already there. If the standard needs to be improved, then that also makes sense.
10:03 TimothyAlexis In the case with bug 27080 Joonas kept changing the scope until I thought that fine, he is free to do it himself according to his liking.
10:03 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27080 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, In Discussion , Add --statute-barred-fees option to cleanup_database.pl to purge all fees where the item has been returned and the fee is older than the given number of days.
10:05 TimothyAlexis From our perspective, we are obligated to clean up statute-barred fines, I know that is true for all Swedish libraries, so I thought I'd just add that functionality.
10:07 TimothyAlexis Early on, Joonas requested that the implementation was according to the new standard, which would require all the already existing code to be updated aswell.
10:08 TimothyAlexis sooner or later...
10:09 TimothyAlexis After he had increased the scope a couple of times, I decided to let it go.
10:13 cait          You can always bring it up to in discussion and alet me
10:13 cait          there is something in the coding guidelines about disagreements with QA as well
10:13 cait          .. and let me know
10:13 cait          i was behind reading bug mail for the last 2 weeks so only saw it this weekend
10:14 magnuse       cait++
10:14 cait          we are human, it's totally ok to ask for second opinions
10:15 cait          i believe it would be useful outside of sweden as well
10:15 cait          we don#t have a law tot hat (that i know of) but it seems a reasonable feature
10:16 TimothyAlexis It takes 2 minutes to implement. Each library who wants the functionality can add it however they like. It could be a scheduled event in the database, it could be a custom perl script (which was the solution my colleagues had started before), it could be a custom enhancement of cleanup_database or even another way. I don't care. We have solved our problem.
10:16 TimothyAlexis I just thought that it would make sense to update what is already there, but I found that was not the case.
10:19 TimothyAlexis This was how it happened from our perspective.
10:19 TimothyAlexis "We need to clean up these fines."
10:19 TimothyAlexis "There is a --fees option in cleanup_database.pl, let's use that one"
10:19 TimothyAlexis "Oh, it only deletes the records where amountoutstanding is 0"
10:20 ashimema      sorry, in a meeting
10:20 ashimema      be with you shortly,
10:20 TimothyAlexis "Yeah, we remember now, person X started working on a script for that some months ago, let's look at it."
10:20 TimothyAlexis *Looks at the script*
10:21 TimothyAlexis "Wouldn't it make sense to simply add an option to cleanup_database.pl? Similar to the --fees one"
10:21 TimothyAlexis "Yeah that makes sense, let's do that instead of creating a custom script to do it."
10:22 TimothyAlexis "Well, usually I would just want to add a scheduled event to the database... But we don't have a single one of those, it's being done with cronjobs in Koha. OK, let's update cleanup_database.pl"
10:22 TimothyAlexis "That way, it could benefit all the other libraries that need to do this too."
10:22 TimothyAlexis 2 weeks of problems.
10:22 TimothyAlexis *drop it* -> local change -> done.
10:26 cait          I think the initial thought was right - having it for everyone who needs it. A lot of libraries don't have the option to add locally in a simple way.
10:26 cait          but I understand your reasoning about effort / effect
10:27 cait          gotta go again for a while
10:29 ashimema      I feel you TimothyAlexis
10:29 ashimema      I think many of us have been in that predicament
10:31 tcohen        morning
10:31 ashimema      I'd also be really interested in your thoughts on using some other methods going forward btw.. the db actions is very interesting to me
10:33 tcohen        Joubu: I'd say yes.
10:33 tcohen        At least on koha-create
10:34 tcohen        jajm would say Makefile too
10:43 tcohen        can I get a couple eyes on bug 27209?
10:43 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27209 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Add Koha::Hold->set_pickup_location
10:43 tcohen        i'll be re-submitting bug 27205 on top of it, thanks
10:44 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27205 major, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Hold routes are not dealing with invalid pickup locations
10:47 Joubu         @later tell oleonard 27099 is driving me crazy, I can't come up with a fix. Could you have a look? Pretty sure it will be trivial for you :)
10:47 huginn        Joubu: The operation succeeded.
11:07 tuxayo        Anyone to QA a trivial patch to make the CI on 20.05 pass again? bug 27177
11:07 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27177 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Signed Off , t/db_dependent/api/v1/holds.t failing after bug 26988
11:07 TimothyAlexis ashimema I think Joonas has a clear view of what he wants done, so he can do that. We have solved the issue on our part. The other 60+ Swedish libraries are going to run into the same situation within 3 years, so they can solve it however they want. If Community wants to prepare for that, then the bug report is there. When I let something go, I have let it go.
11:07 tuxayo        hi #koha BTW :)
11:08 ashimema      OK, so long as it's not left such a bitter taste that you won't try again on other bugs
11:09 TimothyAlexis Honestly, I have yet to make any meaningful contributions. The ones I've done so far have been trivial and the only reason I've really done them is to learn how to do it, thinking that at some point I'd know enough to make some actual contributions.
11:10 ashimema      well.. let me know if/when you ever need support getting things in.. I will always try to help and try to be pragmatic
11:13 Joubu         tuxayo: I am on it
11:13 TimothyAlexis I've learned that if I ever reach a level of knowledge where I could start making contributions, this is what I'd have to deal with. The solution I have for that is to apply my skills where they are valued.
11:14 tuxayo        Thanks Joubu :)
11:16 TimothyAlexis This is how I see it:
11:16 TimothyAlexis option 1 - scheduled event in the database, 1 line of code, 2 minutes implementation
11:17 TimothyAlexis option 2 - ridiculous complexity to get the same result, including meaningless tests testing that the insane, meaningless complexity works.
11:18 TimothyAlexis We want to get some rows from the database based on 3 criteria and delete those.
11:19 TimothyAlexis It doesn't make any sense to do that with a perl script which defines a method for an object which uses another object to search etc. etc. etc. and then test if that function works.
11:19 TimothyAlexis and then schedule that as a cron job.
11:20 TimothyAlexis At the end of the day, we are deleting rows in a database based on 3 criteria.
11:20 TimothyAlexis There is the superfluous way of doing it, and the sensible way of doing it.
11:21 ashimema      that's perspective.. I highlighted a few possible issues with your query in the bug report...
11:21 TimothyAlexis At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how we do it in cleanup_database.pl because the fundamental idea to use a cron scheduled perl script doesn't make any sense.
11:21 ashimema      if you have the expertise to maintain customer work going forward.. then the approach of not having tests and doing it locally is fine ;)
11:22 TimothyAlexis I have a similar situation in memory.
11:22 Joubu         then do it that way TimothyAlexis :)
11:22 Joubu         if you are happy with it, everybody is happy I think
11:24 magnuse       there are some other things to keep in mind too, like we want to log (to the action logs system) when automatic things happen
11:26 tcohen        I agree it is frustrating, I never found a proper way to workaround that. But I've learnt to value other's opinions to make my work better
11:27 TimothyAlexis The frustration stems from an entirely different source.
11:27 TimothyAlexis It really has very little to do with Koha.
11:27 TimothyAlexis Which is the reason why we are doing this in the first place.
11:28 ashimema      so long as people are not really angry with each other and happy to agree to disagree.. then we're all good
11:29 magnuse       +1
11:29 tcohen        +1
11:29 tcohen        I like the idea of leveraging on the DB more
11:29 TimothyAlexis ashimema++
11:35 oleonard      Hi all
11:35 TimothyAlexis OK so there are even more things to consider.
11:36 TimothyAlexis Which Martin Renvoize commented.
11:38 TimothyAlexis I'm going to talk with my team about it and we're possibly going to have to talk with those who actually want this to see if they even understand what it is that they are requesting.
11:41 TimothyAlexis Reading Martin's comments, writing them off makes more sense than to delete them. Then they would balance to 0 and removed based on that criteria.
11:44 TimothyAlexis Testing is fine, as long as what we're testing makes sense.
11:50 TimothyAlexis There needs to be a bug report for the stuff that is already in cleanup_database.pl too, the --fees option uses stuff which has been concluded wrong and the unit test for it should be according to the standard.
11:57 ashimema      ashimema == Martin Renvoize ;)
11:58 ashimema      yeah, it needs a cleanup.. like many things :(
11:58 ashimema      happy to help with such a cleanup.. though I already have a number of those projects on the go ;)
12:06 TimothyAlexis I acted in frustration and the problem was me. I ask forgiveness.
12:06 TimothyAlexis For my behavior.
12:17 tcohen        google down for 10 minutes already
12:18 tuxayo        Joubu++ great catch on 27177 (t/db_dependent/api/v1/holds.t for 20.05)
12:34 tcohen        tuxayo I'm writing a patch for POST
13:09 magnuse       koha put 16 messages for one patron in the message_queue (which was as expected), but postfix logs sending out 32 emails to the same patron, in 9 seconds. anyone else seen that?
13:10 magnuse       a quick grep-and-count on the log shows both even and odd numbers of messages for different email adresses, so it looks like this is not happening for all patrons
13:19 huginn        News from kohagit: Bug 27166: Set destination_loc to item->homebranch <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=9ec0744ccce7a5027373154fc0a5098e8c5260c3>
13:19 huginn        News from kohagit: Bug 27166: Unit tests <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=3126ae34433abe1ca1559e8123e6e1e732c1ed6c>
13:19 huginn        News from kohagit: Bug 27133: (bug 19351 follow-up) Add missing "Copy no" header to relative's checkouts <https://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=ec1979a385cb35228d39d139d7c0bd8c685dd4a2>
13:21 magnuse       wheeee!
13:22 ashimema      ?
13:22 cait1         netsplit
13:22 cait1         you didn#t see it i guess :)
13:25 cait1         oleonard: would you mind taking a look at bug 22038?
13:25 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22038 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, didier.gautheron, Signed Off , When exporting account table to excel, decimal is lost
13:25 oleonard      What do I need to do to get Elasticsearch working in koha-testing-docker? Is ES5 the version I should choose?
13:26 magnuse       sacrifice your firstborn
13:27 oleonard      brb getting scimitar
13:28 oleonard      I feel like it's not a good sign when I see "koha_es_1 exited with code 137"
13:30 oleonard      tcohen do you have any advice?
13:31 tcohen        oleonard ES6
13:31 tcohen        what OS are you on?
13:31 tcohen        ES requires RAM, make sure the docker VM has RAM if you are on windows/macos
13:32 tcohen        I don't have a windows machine to test but on linux and macos some kernel setting is required to allow docker to allocate enough RAM for it
13:32 oleonard      I'm on Mac
13:40 Joubu         oleonard: there should be the relevant error before this line
13:43 did           cait1: oops,, my mistake it's in 'needs signoff' state no signed off; http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22038
13:43 huginn        Bug 22038: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, didier.gautheron, Needs Signoff , When exporting account table to excel, decimal is lost
13:51 oleonard      Joubu how do I reproduce Bug 27200?
13:51 huginn        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=27200 major, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , "Browse search" is broken
13:57 Joubu         oleonard: Turn on OpacBrowseSearch
13:57 Joubu         then /cgi-bin/koha/opac-browse.pl
13:57 Joubu         that's it :)
13:57 oleonard      I don't see any link to that page
13:57 Joubu         Are you seeing "An error occurred, please try again."?
13:57 Joubu         With or without the patch I attached?
13:58 Joubu         if you have the patch, then you don't see the "an error occurred"
13:59 Joubu         If you can click "Search", then search for Exact: "d"
13:59 Joubu         then you can click on a result
13:59 Joubu         https://snipboard.io/A1sDtC.jpg
13:59 oleonard      If I navigate directly to opac-browse.pl I see "This feature is not enabled" even though I enabled OpacBrowseSearch.
14:00 magnuse       restart_all?
14:00 Joubu         searchengine=elastic?
14:01 oleonard      Oh shoot searchengine got reset when I restarted the container. Sorry about that.
14:02 Joubu         oleonard: you can turn it on automatically, in .env (from ktd): KOHA_ELASTICSEARCH=1
14:03 oleonard      I would have thought starting the container with "ku-es5" would have turned it on
14:04 Joubu         nope, it just setup the "elastic" docker container
14:04 Joubu         KOHA_ELASTICSEARCH=1 will change the syspref and run the indexation
14:08 pastebot      "oleonard" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "Still getting error from browse search even after patch and restart" (235 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/26498
14:15 Joubu         oleonard: try koha-elasticsearch --rebuild -d -r kohadev
14:27 oleonard      Thanks Joubu
14:27 oleonard      I have definitely never seen that page, sorry everyone :D
14:28 caroline      cait1: what do you mean by manual saved search?
14:37 TimothyAlexis ashimema, cait1, We have discussed the statute-barred fines and have concluded that even though there are clear rules for how to handle them, translating that to system operations will need to be handled customly for each organization.
14:43 TimothyAlexis To clean up statute-barred fees would require the system to know how a statute-barred fee is defined, which would need to be defined specifically for each library.
15:58 caroline      ashimema and/or rangi: I got another pipeline fail after merging a manual contrib my lucyvh
15:59 caroline      *by
16:02 cait1         caroline: there was something you wanted from me in the docs meeting i missed
16:02 cait1         i scanned it quickly
16:02 cait1         some search i created on bugzilla that needs to be changed?
16:02 caroline      oh yes!
16:02 caroline      The Documentation to-do search on the main page
16:03 caroline      can you add OR manual keyword?
16:03 cait1         did: will your patch also replace . , in text fields?
16:03 cait1         i only took a very quick look, but it didn't look like a pattern was checked on first glance - maybe there is a type or so it already gives?
17:00 reiveune      bye
17:57 caroline      bbl
19:38 cait          @later tell caroline the manual keyword should already be checked
19:38 huginn        cait: The operation succeeded.
21:34 oleonard      Is there some one for the user to see their own card number in the OPAC?
21:34 oleonard      some way?
21:35 caroline      isn't it in my personal information?
21:35 caroline      or you personal informtion (i never know if it says my or your)
21:36 oleonard      Oh, I guess it is in my test system. Why not in production, customization or old version? :D
21:39 oleonard      There it is... I was looking at the wrong preference...