Time Nick Message 21:26 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #5: STILL UNSTABLE in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U18/5/ 21:16 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #4: UNSTABLE in 36 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/4/ 21:14 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #5: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D9/5/ 20:03 caroline_catlady for future reference, the url is https://mana-kb.koha-community.org 19:59 cait great :) 19:59 caroline_catlady cait++ 19:59 caroline_catlady Thank you! 19:58 caroline_catlady ah it worked! 19:56 cait true, i like both :) and ouzo 19:54 caroline_catlady not a fan of fennel either... tastes like licorice 19:54 caroline_catlady yeah, I'm not a fan of licorice so I don't think I would even try 19:53 cait caroline_catlady: andreas sent us some... they were... interesting 19:53 caroline_catlady ah! 19:53 cait i think a change to koha-conf might not take effect without apache restart 19:53 caroline_catlady licorice chips! 19:53 wahanui no is that a thing? I was just thinking about how I like all kinds of chips and now I find out that there is a licorice flavor! 19:53 caroline_catlady no? 19:53 cait did you do a reastart_all? 19:52 caroline_catlady -_- still not working... 19:50 cait but assumed mana would be the real one 19:50 cait i had mana-test 19:50 cait hm maybe 19:50 caroline_catlady will try that 19:50 caroline_catlady ah the one on my test environment is mana-kb.koha... 19:49 caroline_catlady nope, still getting the same error 19:48 caroline_catlady ok I will try that 19:48 cait so before 19:48 cait inside yep 19:48 caroline_catlady before </config>? 19:47 cait <mana_config>https://mana.koha-community.org</mana_config> 19:47 cait i have a mana_config at the bottom 19:47 caroline_catlady mayne I have to add it manually? 19:46 cait there should be... let me see 19:46 caroline_catlady I searched for mana in koha-conf and I didn't find anythng 19:46 cait i tihnk the mana pref is set in the koha-conf 19:45 cait hmm 19:45 cait check your mana prefs maybe? 19:45 caroline_catlady where do I set up the url? 19:45 caroline_catlady I don't know, I just filled in the name and email fields 19:44 cait it souns like it thinks it has a relative url 19:44 cait did you include http:// etc in your url for mana? 19:44 caroline_catlady anyone know why I would get the following message when trying to get a mana token? "An error occurred, mana server returned: URL must be absolute" 19:28 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22880 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Convert opacheader system preference to news block 19:28 oleonard See y'all later. Test Bug 22880! 18:56 oleonard Hi kathryn 18:18 talljoy thanks tcohen 18:10 tcohen talljoy: I'm looking at the API failures on Ubuntu 18 18:09 Joubu what I am doing, but cannot shut it down for now 18:08 tcohen will probably surprise you hehe 18:08 tcohen docker system prune -a 18:07 Joubu I have disk space issues... cannot pull another image... 18:07 tcohen KOHA_IMAGE=master-bionic docker-compose -p koha_bionic up 18:06 tcohen I will use a different name and test 18:05 Joubu I don't have U18 either right now. I planned to take a look today but forgot 18:05 tcohen Joubu: yes, thanks. Will try to figure how to test is without breaking my dev env which is really tweaked now 18:04 ashimema I just haven't managed to find a moment to look yet myself 18:04 tcohen hahaha 18:04 ashimema You and I count as nice people there tcohen 18:04 Joubu tcohen: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U18/lastCompletedBuild/consoleFull on U18 only it seems 18:03 tcohen ashimema: he wouldn't touch api tests 18:03 ashimema Either.. both should work 18:03 tcohen 5.x, or 6 with bugs 18:03 ashimema Haha.. Joubu is one of those aforementioned nice people 18:03 vfernandes which ElasticSearch version we should use with 19.11? 18:03 tcohen ? 18:03 tcohen api tests failing 18:02 ashimema It never really comes to that though.. lots of nice people will help fix them if you can't I find 18:02 ashimema Basically, the process is to look at Jenkins and see which tests it's unhappy about and either fix then, ask someone nice to fix them.. or in a mean case threaten to revert something if they're not fixed.. 18:02 Joubu no idea what's happenning with the api ones 18:01 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24199 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , t/Auth_with_shibboleth.t is failing randomly 18:01 Joubu talljoy: bug 24199 will fix the shib test 18:01 ashimema I'll take a look tonight/tomorrow morning and give you a hand.. 18:00 talljoy very much out of my wheelhouse! 18:00 ashimema Haha 18:00 ashimema Lol.. my phone really wanted to correct that to Tallboy 18:00 talljoy ashimema - i'm not sure what to do with the 'still unstable' message on jenkins 18:00 ashimema talljoy++ 17:56 talljoy pushing them slowly cait. trying to not screw it up. :D 17:53 cait talljoy++ :) 17:48 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #4: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U18/4/ 17:45 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #4: STILL UNSTABLE in 44 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D9/4/ 17:42 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #3: SUCCESS in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/3/ 16:19 reiveune bye 16:13 caroline_catlady glitter++ 16:13 oleonard What we need is a chat system with *more* glitter. 16:11 eythian holy crap, it's gitter.im. I had always read it as glitter.im. 16:08 tcohen hahaha 16:08 tcohen eythian: LOL screen+irssi to tmux+weechat 16:07 tcohen smuxi++ 15:50 caroline_catlady lol! 15:49 eythian see also https://xkcd.com/1782/ 15:48 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22880 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Convert opacheader system preference to news block 15:48 oleonard I've added a big follow-up on Bug 22880 and I think it's pretty robust now. Please test! I'd love to get all similar system preferences migrated in the next release if possible 15:47 eythian davidnind: good link, thanks 15:46 davidnind Why Slack is better, and why open communities shouldn't use it https://davelane.nz/why-slack-better-and-why-open-communities-shouldnt-use-it 15:46 davidnind ashimema:Dave Lane has some useful blog posts https://tech.oeru.org/taxonomy/term/18 15:46 eythian and for those who it doesn't alienate, perhaps they should reconsider ;) 15:45 eythian and one strong opinion is that proprietary is bad for free software and will alienate many people. But there are options that aren't that too. 15:45 * ashimema likes opinions :) 15:44 ashimema but also we win too in my opinion.. for things like code snippets etc. 15:44 * eythian doesn't have much of a say here, just opinions, btw :) 15:44 eythian fair 15:44 ashimema the target audience isn't us.. it's the people who aren't here ;) 15:44 kidclamp but it's not just meant to be developer chat 15:44 eythian oleonard: well if it's developer chat, how do they deal with code :) 15:44 * kidclamp does like Quassel 15:44 ashimema totally 15:44 ashimema kidclamp++ 15:43 kidclamp there are nice irc clients, but having one app/interface and not asking people to choose or customise can make it easier to get started 15:43 eythian then you change the font if you want to 15:43 oleonard eythian: Everyone who's never used IRC just got a chill down their spine from that screenshot 15:43 caroline_catlady that's what mine looks like too, but I don't think that's pretty or easy to read 15:42 eythian https://imgur.com/a/uKFKe11 looks like this 15:41 davidnind it's nice - have used occassioanly 15:41 eythian I have a nice GUI client that I can be connected from my phone, multiple computers, etc all at once and catches messages when I'm away, shows previews of URLs on hover, etc etc. 15:41 ashimema so each of the support companies could host their own for internal chat and still connect to each other and the community via the same platform and client. 15:41 caroline_catlady I've yet to find a sexy irc client 15:40 caroline_catlady It looks like it, but I've never used it 15:40 ashimema and.. it federates 15:40 eythian IRC is as nice as you want it to be. 15:40 ashimema and not far behind slack in my opinion 15:40 ashimema rocket chat is allot sexier than irc ;) 15:40 caroline_catlady then make the open options sexier 15:39 * talljoy whistles innocently 15:39 * eythian would like to discourage forcing people to use a proprietary system like slack in order to work on a free software project. 15:38 ashimema hehe 15:36 oleonard kidclamp: Just bolstering ashimema's argument for a sexier chat system :D 15:35 * kidclamp narrows eyes at oleonard 15:30 ashimema they might have done ;) 15:29 oleonard Okay let's be honest: Someone shook the Slack tree to get all the ByWater folks to fall out, right? 15:29 ashimema hopefully people know by now I generally just want opinions and to see the community flourish.. so I get away with asking hard questions :) 15:29 ashimema hehe.. always a pleasure 15:28 cait ashimema++ 15:27 davidnind ashimema++ 15:27 caroline_catlady ashimema++ for bringin up controversial topics :) 15:27 ashimema thanks everyone, good meeting, lots discussed 15:27 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/general_irc_meeting_11_december_2019.2019-12-11-14.00.log.html 15:27 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/general_irc_meeting_11_december_2019.2019-12-11-14.00.txt 15:27 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/general_irc_meeting_11_december_2019.2019-12-11-14.00.html 15:27 huginn Meeting ended Wed Dec 11 15:27:17 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 15:27 ashimema #endmeeting 15:27 ashimema brill.. we have a winner :) 15:27 ashimema #info Next meeting: 8 January 2020, 20 UTC 15:26 oleonard '15:00 Athens, OH' is how most Americans refer to it I think 15:26 caroline_catlady 20 UTC is good for east coast 15:26 davidnind 20:00 (9 am is good), but not sure how ot suits others 15:26 * ashimema isn't sure why he picked new york.. america spans too many time zones ;) 15:25 ashimema that's 09::00 Wellington and 15:00 New York 15:25 ashimema 20:00 UTC? 15:25 davidnind daytime..:) 15:24 ashimema davidnind.. remind me what time works well for NZ 15:24 cait +1 15:24 caroline_catlady ok 15:23 oleonard +1 15:23 talljoy +1 15:23 talljoy yes 15:23 davidnind +1 15:23 ashimema does the 8th work for people? 15:23 ashimema the later time but same date next month? 15:22 ashimema #topic Time of next meeting 15:22 ashimema right.. last topic then 15:22 ashimema thanks everyone.. a really good discussion I feel 15:22 huginn kellym: downloading the Perl source 15:22 kellym @ashimema++ 15:22 talljoy ashimema++ 15:21 ashimema #action ashimema will summarise the release cycle discussion on a wiki page and invite people to contribute/comment via as many comms methods as he can muster. 15:20 oleonard [off] georgew I don't see the meeting on the calendar 15:20 ashimema ok 15:20 wizzyrea I figured :) 15:20 talljoy ashimema i would like a synopsis and some suggested steps forward. 15:20 georgew koha-US is having a meeting today and I'll bring this issue up and see if I can get some library peopel to read the minutes so they know what's going on 15:20 ashimema wizzyrea.. it's the Ubuntu LTS + Punishment model I'm really trying to suggest ;) 15:20 cait maybe solvable, but to keep in mind 15:19 kellym ah yes! We did talk about that earlier! @cait 15:19 cait kellym: translation issues :( 15:19 wizzyrea ubuntu does this well, with LTS and "I like punishment" releases 15:19 georgew I was late to the meeting and then I've had to jump in and out while dealing with some other issues, but I think libraries would definitely want some input on these release issues 15:19 davidnind balance between a cloud like service controlled by one vendor with continuous deployment vs multiple providers, supported versions and stability for clients/libraries 15:19 kellym yes @davidnind highlight and direct to more information. I love @wizzyrea idea- even an added note on the news tools could be useful. 15:19 ashimema this has served it's purpose.. it's got people thinking and talking about it :) 15:18 cait or not get bugs fixed/security fixes 15:18 cait not force people to do updates often 15:18 ashimema How about I try to summarise what we've said today on a wiki page and invite comment via the lists 15:18 cait not every library loves CD... it could also be a selling poit to offer different clearly defined routs 15:18 cait we pick what our libraries use 15:18 cait we pick and translate from them, they are mostly useful for people like us i guess 15:17 talljoy it does feel like we need a bit more clarification on the needs of community/libraries/dev before deciding on what some specifics are 15:17 ashimema feature flagging is good 15:17 kidclamp like collect thoughts on wiki and in the mailing list? 15:17 ashimema our release notes aren't all that great 15:17 wizzyrea like slaaack does with the little present 15:17 ashimema I've been slowly working on a changelog type approach davidnind kellym 15:17 kidclamp so I think this is good discussion, but maybe we need to think a bit and come back with a clearer idea of the issue we are solving 15:17 caroline_catlady davidnind++ 15:17 * wizzyrea whispers "feature flagging in the interface..." 15:17 cait in theory we are 4... but we also do migrations /project work all the time 15:16 davidnind kellym: would like to do that - what's new summary, details in documentation portal/manual 15:16 ashimema that's part of what braught me to this set of questions 15:16 caroline_catlady I agree cait we are two who do tests and docs here and it's a lot 15:16 ashimema experienced dev numbers aren't all that strong at the moment.. or rather volunteers to do the rmaint roles aren't at least 15:16 wizzyrea I really think a feature flagging function in Koha would be great 15:15 TGoat just thinking.. assuming that our developer numbers stay strong and we have a willing pool of RM's 15:15 cait and we don#t have educators... we are all in one people 15:15 cait we need to make our own documentation etc. it's a big task for smaller teams 15:15 talljoy good point cait. bag mentioned this in our meeting yesterday as an important consideration 15:15 cait we also have things specific to our environment that need to be tested... we need an option for slower updates too 15:15 kellym yes, so would it be beneficial to produce a what’s new outside of a release notes doc? showing only features? 15:15 caroline_catlady database changes are all fine and good, but they f up a bunch of stuff when we upgrade (sorry for the big words I just spent a whole day redoing circ rules for 20+ clients) 15:15 cait we need to put more work in 15:15 cait please keep in mind that not all people are using Koha in English 15:14 ashimema indeed kellym 15:13 davidnind kellym: release notes are continuous https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-release-notes 15:13 caroline_catlady like the fines reports for 19.05 15:13 ashimema but then.. perhaps they would also benefit from a smaller amount to do each month rather than a mamoth task once every 6 months 15:13 caroline_catlady release notes, what's new and what you have to change 15:12 ashimema translation and documentation need thought though.. 15:12 ashimema we could do better on the packaging front I think 15:12 davidnind kellym: has ideas about release notes vs what's new 15:12 ashimema we still have a SO/QA process.. and releaseing is pretty streamlined already in reality 15:12 ashimema it doesn't really all fall on the RM.. 15:11 ashimema we just need to work out what those are 15:11 TGoat don't forget the RM's to whom this will all fall on 15:11 ashimema well.. it sounds like we certianly have the apetite to consider alternatives at least 15:11 kidclamp for devs too I like the idea of not having a 6 month window of missing getting a dev in 15:11 kellym but good question, how far in advance would release notes come prior to doing the upgrade ? 15:10 ashimema yup 15:10 ashimema totally.. I'm a dev.... we deffo need to get opinions from users, trainers and inf people 15:10 talljoy ashimema, we also have that issue. along with devs that folks pay for that they don't see for 6-12 months 15:10 kellym yes @caroline_catlady, it would get a bit dicey! 15:10 oleonard That's a good point ashimema 15:09 kidclamp we have been discussing that with trainers to figure out a different model 15:09 ashimema I have an issue with code going in, then often not getting used in real life for nearly 18 months and then trying to remember what I was doing all that time ago to fix a bug in it is really hard 15:09 talljoy that is what our educators say also! 15:09 caroline_catlady and the preparation is long too, I can't imagine doing this more often 15:09 kidclamp yeah, smaller bites, less bugs, found faster 15:09 talljoy yes. 15:09 ashimema it's just about getting better at spotting and fixing bugs quicker 15:09 caroline_catlady we just went through the upgrades with our clients and while it was not nightmarish, there were still bugs in 19.05.04 15:08 ashimema I believe if we set out a goal to get there, we could improve out practice over a few cycle to go from 6 monthly feature releases down to 3 monthly, then monthly perhaps 15:07 talljoy for us internally. We will adapt to what the community does. This is just input about what is going on in our heads 15:07 ashimema it may not be.. but shouldn't we be asking the question of "why isn't it" ;) 15:07 talljoy we are not yet brave enough to put our libraries on master. so the reality is that we are expecting a modified CI/CD pipeline 15:07 Joubu Or I did not get what you are talking about 15:07 Joubu I don't think our codebase is robust enough to provide a (relatively) master-based stable release every month 15:06 ashimema so you 'can' do watch that 15:06 ashimema well.. we do have the nightly build bot which builds package nightly 15:06 ashimema we already do such a scheme for rmaint 15:06 ashimema but I don think monthly release could be possible 15:06 eythian (having monthly/nightly use-at-your-own-risk auto snapshot releases could be an easy approach too.) 15:06 talljoy cait i like your yearly LTS idea instead of 18 months 15:06 cait yep 15:05 caroline_catlady + docs and translations 15:05 cait it woudl never work for translations 15:05 talljoy true. 15:05 ashimema I don't think we're ready for that yet.. but I'd love to see it happen 15:05 cait especially if you don't have in-house devs for hotfixing 15:05 ashimema indeed.. CD is exactly what eythian said.. 15:05 talljoy i mean, aim high, right? 15:05 cait bywater is the biggest player right now - I think it makes sense, but for the smaller ones might be harder to keep that pace 15:05 talljoy that's more what we're aiming for. 15:05 ashimema yeah, it isn't easy 15:05 talljoy right 15:05 eythian CD is not monthly, CD is more like every commit gets deployed 15:05 talljoy we are upgrading continually, but it is a logistical problem for us. 15:04 talljoy we do 2x a year with monthly point release upgrades 15:04 ashimema how do you do CD if you only upgrade once a year? 15:04 talljoy that's what the U.S. market is about now. 15:03 talljoy We are moving towards CD as much as we can. 15:03 cait i think biblibre and us target once a year for update, so that would be nice to maintain, monthly with translations and everything woudl be too much 15:03 talljoy yearly does make a bit more sense from a library's perspective. "we upgrade every year in August" for example 15:03 ashimema CI = Continious Integration (we do this with Jenkins).. CD = Continious Deployment (monthly releases would be close to this) 15:02 cait maybe longer support but a big one every year instead of 18 months 15:02 talljoy stay a couple of tracks back but a couple ahead of LTS? 15:02 ashimema CD is what all the 'big boys' are moving too.. I fear if we don't offer it we will loose out. 15:02 cait between those 2 15:02 ashimema CI + CD 15:02 cait wonder if there is some middle gruond to be found 15:01 talljoy CI for the win! 15:01 cait hm 15:01 ashimema and a continious integration track which is release monthly and contains bugfixes and new feature as soon as they're ready 15:01 ashimema so.. the best proposal I've spitballed here is to have two tracks.. a LTS which gets a feature update once every 18 months or something like that.. and is maintained with bugfixes only throughout it's life 15:01 talljoy not always successful, but we try! 15:01 talljoy our goal is to make upgrades a 'non issue' for our libraries 15:01 cait :) 15:00 talljoy 2 15:00 cait talljoy: are you doing 1 or 2 updates a year? 15:00 cait I think there might be benefits of having a regular LTS, but also needs a maintainer 15:00 cait yeah, i think the might be the motivation to go on a new verson - there are features needed/wanted 14:59 ashimema and those who want stability over functionality and want to wait 2 years 14:59 talljoy <and paid for it too> 14:59 ashimema we certainly have two types of customer here.. those who want their new feature asap.. 14:59 talljoy that's just us internally 'spit-balling' 14:59 talljoy we have played with the idea of getting 'really early' adopters to help flush bugs. i.e. roll a 20.01 and get bugs fixed in the 20.05 14:59 ashimema would be happy to collaborate on picking out some stats.. 14:59 ashimema not in a particularly meaningful format yet no.. 14:58 cait but tbh we sit it out pretty long too - preparation takes a while as well, as we have to write up Gemran resoruces etc. too 14:58 ashimema also.. the gap between being reported and being fixed varies allot 14:58 talljoy do you have data on who is reporting those bugs ashimema ? 14:58 cait we have some early adopters 14:58 ashimema I have stats for numbers of bugs fixed at various points in cycles.. the general trend I've spotted is that bugs are getting reported later 14:58 cait talljoy++ thx! 14:57 talljoy i wanted to dig a big deeper if i can and may need khall to help with the pulling data from bz 14:57 ashimema yeah.. hense the open floor here.. so I have some help coming up with questions ;) 14:57 talljoy i can clean up a bit and send on the list. yes! 14:57 cait I have a feeling that our latest 2 have been a bit ... less stable 14:57 ashimema be interested in seeing those graphs talljoy 14:57 cait talljoy: can you share? it sounds interesting 14:57 davidnind tricky bit might be the actual questions to ask 14:57 * talljoy has graphs 14:57 oleonard davidnind++ 14:56 talljoy most bugs are fixed in .03 and .04 of every release. but i'm not sure when they are actually found to be included in those stable point releases 14:56 ashimema I've worked in a few different cycles over the years and they all have their own benefits and problems 14:56 caroline_catlady I'm just wondering what would be the repercussions of changing the cuycle 14:56 talljoy #info Joy Nelson 14:56 davidnind have some sort of survey - get the views of support providers, self-hosters, etc 14:56 * ashimema isn't being deliberately obtuse.. I just want to get opinions 14:55 wizzyrea #info liz rea 14:54 ashimema i.e are we not just shifting the bugs down 14:54 ashimema and.. are the .05/.06 releases actually stable if the majority of users aren't looking at a release until that point.. 14:54 cait but having one version for 1.5 years is good 14:54 cait i think I could imagine an LTS version 14:54 ashimema it's allot to ask to find 3 rmaints every 6 months 14:53 cait or at least at the moment target those 14:53 ashimema but do we need to support 3 versions simultaneosly? 14:53 talljoy we upgrade every release on the point .06 usually 14:53 cait we are on the .11 14:53 ashimema mm.. so I think we still need some sort of long term support idea 14:52 caroline_catlady I know here (and I think in most support companies?) we only upgrade every 2 versions (for us it's every .05) 14:52 ashimema Ubuntu for example has a flip/flop cycle which spans 12 months.. their two releases a year have an experimental 6 months followed by a stabalisation 6 months 14:51 ashimema well.. I'm not really envisaging much change this cycle really.. it's more of a wider question and setting up idea's and plans for subsquent cycles 14:50 ashimema I have my own concerns which I'm sure people have heard before 14:50 oleonard I'm concerned that the `fail fast, experiment and stabilize` process won't have time enough for the stabilize step if we speed things up 14:50 ashimema do we think as a community we are remaining competative or do we need to make any changes to try and continue to be 14:49 ashimema lots of chatter on WhatsApp and in Twitter land after verious acquisitions having taking place this month and the ever increasing focus on Folio 14:49 ashimema Broad question I wanted to raise to get wider audience 14:49 ashimema #topic Are we happy with the existing release process and cycle? 14:48 ashimema moving onto my last controvertial topic.. 14:48 cait ok with january too :) 14:48 magnuse ashimema: i'll do it if noone else wants to have a go 14:48 ashimema brill 14:48 davidnind there is a template for the wiki as well 14:48 ashimema hehe 14:48 ashimema #info Next global bug squashing day to take place 17th January 14:48 oleonard [off] Y'all can give me a day-early birthday present and sign off on all my patches 14:47 ashimema #action ashimema to send out a global bug squashing day announcement email 14:47 ashimema ok.. I'll send out a mail and start the process 14:47 * ashimema tihnks we should volunteer magnuse to organise it as he's running away now.. 14:47 caroline_catlady I will make sure our staff is on it 14:47 davidnind +1 14:47 magnuse sorry, gotta run 14:47 ashimema it's a friday to correspond with inLibros' friday community slot (and I think Bywater has a similar Friday for community stuff slot) 14:46 magnuse +1 14:46 tcohen \o/ 14:46 ashimema 17th suit people then? 14:45 magnuse hehe 14:45 * oleonard settling in for a long winter's nap 14:45 magnuse yeah, i'd say january is better 14:45 ashimema I may be wrong.. let me know :) 14:45 magnuse ashimema: nah, can't say i do 14:44 ashimema my gut says allot of people are already winding down for xmas and it's a bit late to organise a gbsd this month 14:44 ashimema I'm thinking I'll have a triaging session during december ready to get action in a squashing day early Jan 14:44 ashimema lol 14:43 cait we can put little christmas hats on the bugs... 14:43 cait as we are focusing on bugs at the moment until beginning of january 14:43 ashimema that would be a nice way to make sure we pick off at least a few academy bugs 14:43 cait could we have a december bug sqhash? 14:43 ashimema perhaps delay to 17 or 16th perhaps then... 14:43 ashimema aha.. 14:43 cait i like bug squashing :) 14:43 cait ah nice 14:42 Joubu https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Catalyst_Academy 14:42 Joubu Project week: 14-17 January 2020 14:42 ashimema currently I have 10th Jan in my head as a proposal 14:42 davidnind 6-17th January, last week is the project week where they work on projects https://www.catalyst.net.nz/open-source-academy 14:42 ashimema just working out the logistics of organising a bug squashing day 14:41 ashimema we're still going cait 14:41 ashimema magnuse do you have any recollection as to whether end of week or beggining generally got mroe attendance? 14:41 cait sorry for missing the meeting... was in another lengthy meeting 14:41 davidnind is in January 14:40 * ashimema was about to ask that next :) 14:40 oleonard When is Catalyst Academy? Anyone know? 14:40 davidnind excellent idea! 14:40 ashimema s/someone/somewhat 14:40 davidnind https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Category:Global_bug_squashing_days 14:40 ashimema I'm thinking early to mid january for a rough date.. once xmas is someone out of the way but whilst people are hopefully fresh and rested still from the holidays 14:39 magnuse yup, worth a try 14:38 ashimema I'm all about trying to get more people looking at bugzilla and helping each other move bugs on at the moment.. such a day seems like a good idea 14:38 ashimema but.. I'd like to suggest we get one in the diary and publicise it.. 14:38 magnuse i did, back in the day 14:37 ashimema who used to take on organising them.. I don't remember? 14:37 ashimema haha.. 14:37 ashimema #topic Shall we bring back an internation bug squashing day? 14:37 Joubu yes it is, you will need to setup a date 14:37 ashimema oh.. actually, the next one isn't controvertial 14:37 ashimema OK.. I think we can probably move onto my next controvertial topic ;) 14:37 Joubu not* 14:36 Joubu oleonard: I did not say I was against the idea, sorry if it is what has been understood 14:35 ashimema I'm suggesting a lightweight trial of it to start with 14:35 magnuse if ptfse can't host it i think libriotech can (on linode) 14:35 ashimema to start with I was going to personally host it and see what sort of adoption it gets 14:34 Joubu I guess we will want to host it somewhere 14:34 ashimema #action ashimema is going to investigate setting up a bridged rocket.chat server to allow a more modern form of instance communication for the community. 14:34 oleonard Joubu: You've offered only arguments against the idea, none in support of the status quo 14:34 Joubu I mean, who, when, where? 14:34 Joubu ashimema: what's the proposal then? 14:33 Joubu oleonard: I never said that. I am not the one who is trying to convince people 14:33 ashimema moving on.. there seems to be no hard objections so I'll spend a little time getting something setup for a trial. 14:33 oleonard Joubu: What is your argument for not trying rocket.chat? 14:32 ashimema rocket.chat support all of those 14:32 ashimema and those are all the things I mean by 'but it looks outdated to many and doesn't support allot of the modern communication expectations.' 14:32 Joubu but "too complicate" and "we lost developers" sound wrong to me 14:31 Joubu for instance 14:31 Joubu paste/videoconf/code sharing in the same app 14:31 oleonard The rocket.chat solution is designed specifically to continue IRC support 14:31 ashimema but hey 14:31 ashimema I can't see a better reason than to enable more people to join the community. 14:31 oleonard I think there's no reason at all not to give rocket.chat a try if ashimema is willing to spend some time on it 14:31 ashimema ok.. what would be a good reason then Joubu 14:30 Joubu khall: you are here, right? 14:30 Joubu I am not against the idea, but the reasons are not the good ones in my opinion 14:30 caroline_catlady gifs ftw ;) 14:30 ashimema well.. I often poke people who are missing via slack to get them to come here.. khall is a good example 14:30 tcohen I do 14:30 ashimema irc isn't 'that' technical to be honest.. but it looks outdated to many and doesn't support allot of the modern communication expectations. 14:29 Joubu :) 14:29 Joubu tcohen has a link for that I guess 14:29 Joubu ashimema: lost developers? who? 14:29 ashimema I certainly don't want to cut off existing workflows.. just add an option for less technically adept people 14:28 Joubu stupid bots, change bots 14:28 ashimema that's the main reason i want to bridge it to the irc channel, at least in the short term.. so we can continue to use the existing bots 14:28 huginn Joubu: Error: Failed to load Wunderground API. Check the logs for more information. 14:28 caroline_catlady I would miss wahanui saying random things 14:28 Joubu @wunder Madrid 14:28 caroline_catlady would bots still work? 14:27 davidnind yeah weather! 14:27 ashimema we've already lost a number of developers from the irc space to slack.. just saying ;) 14:27 oleonard I'll vote to approve any chat solution which will tell me the weather 14:27 davidnind not sure whether things have changed.. 14:26 davidnind I think Catalyst chose it for use internally - post from 2016 https://www.catalyst.net.nz/blog/bleeding-edge-chat 14:26 caroline_catlady #link https://rocket.chat/ 14:26 caroline_catlady tcohen: lol! XD 14:25 tcohen Joubu: http://cbs-news.us/2019/12/11/Koha-users-have-difficulties-with-IRC/9S29oYSB1c2VycyBoYXZlIGRpZmZpY3VsdGllcyB3aXRoIElSQw==.Q29uc3VsdGVkIHBvdGVudGlhbCB1c2VycyBoYXZlIGV4cHJlc3NlZCBJUkMgaXMgYSBiYXJyaWVyLg==.aHR0cHM6Ly9saXZlLnN0YXRpY2ZsaWNrci5jb20vMTgxMi80MjA2MjUzNjU4MF9hYTQ3ZDBlOWQ2X3ouanBn 14:25 ashimema I'm interested in hearing opinions in this public forum 14:25 ashimema sources.. our customers, bywater customers, various developers I've spoken to 14:25 ashimema #info After a little research I'm proposing the creation of a rocket.chat server (I'll try to take on setting one up for a trial) and having it bridge to the existing IRC room. 14:25 oleonard I think rocket.chat looks very interesting 14:24 oleonard I agree that IRC is a barrier to entry 14:24 ashimema I'm interested in hearing opinions in this public forum 14:24 Joubu they said that IRC is a barrier to entry? 14:23 ashimema sources.. our customers, bywater customers, various developers I've spoken to 14:23 ashimema #info After a little research I'm proposing the creation of a rocket.chat server (I'll try to take on setting one up for a trial) and having it bridge to the existing IRC room. 14:22 Joubu source? :) 14:21 ashimema #info I've discussed with a few people the prospect of adding an alternative to IRC as it seems to be a barrier to entry for some. 14:21 tcohen sorry 14:21 tcohen hola 14:20 davidnind (sorry, a bit slow!) 14:20 davidnind #info the 3rd Koha Pakistan International Conference is 16-18 April 2020 http://2020.kohapakistan.org/ 14:20 ashimema #topic Proposal to try rocket.chat as an alternative/compliment of IRC 14:20 ashimema #topic Any Other Business 14:19 ashimema ok.. onto the next topic 14:19 jzairo :) 14:19 ashimema thanks jzairo for the update 14:19 ashimema added it to the community calendar 14:17 jzairo some more information for koha-US and the kohathon (they changed the name) to make it easier https://bywatersolutions.com/news/kohathon-call-for-proposals 14:16 Joubu yup 14:16 ashimema shall I add some of the other events? 14:16 ashimema hackfest is in the community calendar :) 14:16 Joubu heh, that! 14:16 Joubu ha yes, paul_p annonced the hackfest on the list 14:16 davidnind #info The dates for the BibLibre Koha Hackfest in Marseille are 23-27 March 2020 14:15 ashimema thanks david. 14:15 davidnind #info Details for the Koha-a-thon https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2019-December/053991.html 14:15 ashimema #info Rmaints are tentatively starting to push bugs to their respective branches. 14:14 davidnind #info koha-US is planning an online conference (Koha-a-thon) for 24 April, call for talks closes 10 January 14:14 oleonard [off] Gotta be careful with those ducks, people are trigger-happy around here 14:14 ashimema we don't have any rmaints? present do we :( 14:13 caroline_catlady [off] sorry I'm late 14:13 ashimema I hope to send out a mail over xmas asking people to line up their ducks for January pushes... setting out some bugs I hope to focus on and setting some rough deadlines to see them moving. 14:13 caroline_catlady #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inlibro 14:12 ashimema yup, that's on my list oleonard 14:12 ashimema architectural ones are up there, mojolicious too 14:12 Joubu you have my suggestions already ;) 14:12 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15522 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , New interface for revamped circulation rules 14:12 oleonard Bug 15522? 14:12 ashimema I need to go through the list, but I'm open to suggestions ;) 14:11 Joubu which ones do you have in mind? 14:11 ashimema #info `fail fast` and `experiment and stabalise` 14:11 ashimema #info As is the pattern, we will be sticking to bugfixes only up until the end of the month, but then I hope to start pushing enhancements early January, focusing on the more experimental one's first to give us a large a section of the release cycle to fix any subsequent bugs before release. 14:10 ashimema #info 19.11 have been branched and master is now the working version for the next feature release, 20.05 14:09 ashimema #topic 20.05 (next release) 14:09 ashimema #topic Update on releases 14:09 ashimema I think we can move on 14:08 davidnind :) 14:08 ashimema glad you do.. I'd totally forgotten that one 14:08 ashimema :) 14:08 davidnind #info Extended closing date for Kohacon20 proposals for talks is 13 December 14:08 * ashimema is always impressed you make the meetings at these crazy times 14:07 ashimema as our lone nz representative this afternoon.. any kohacon updates to pass along davidnind ? 14:07 ashimema it's a team effort 14:07 ashimema community++ 14:07 oleonard mtj++ 14:07 oleonard ashimema++ 14:06 ashimema #info 19.11, 19.05.x and 18.11.x releases all included security patches this recent release 14:06 magnuse mtj++ 14:06 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, BYWater Solutions 14:06 ashimema #info The 19.11 release happened, all be it a little late. Thanks go out to Mason for stepping in and doing the packaging at the last minute. 14:05 magnuse #info Magnus Enger. Libriotech, Norway 14:05 ashimema #topic Announcements 14:03 oleonard C'mon stragglers 14:02 ashimema We'll wait a few minutes for any straggler to arrive :) 14:02 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand 14:01 ashimema #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_11_December_2019 Today's agenda 14:01 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart 14:01 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA 14:01 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe, UK 14:00 ashimema #info Please introduce yourselve with an #info to appear in the minutes. 14:00 ashimema #topic Introductions 14:00 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_11_december_2019' 14:00 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:00 huginn Meeting started Wed Dec 11 14:00:38 2019 UTC. The chair is ashimema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00 ashimema #startmeeting General IRC meeting 11 December 2019 14:00 * fridolin sorry I'm buzy 13:58 wahanui okay, Joubu. 13:58 Joubu no wahanui, qa_team is cait Joubu marcelr kohaputti josef_moravec tcohen kidclamp khall 13:57 * ashimema should learn to not get stick into code just before a meeting is meant to start 13:57 ashimema 3 mins 13:57 paxed Joubu: okay, i'll do that once i'm in front of a computer 13:57 wahanui okay, Joubu. 13:57 Joubu no wahanui, qa_team is cait jajm alex_a khall josef_moravec Joubu marcelr tcohen kohaputti kidclamp 13:57 ashimema lots need updating 13:57 oleonard Okay we're on our own there. 13:57 oleonard avengers? 13:56 wahanui it has been said that rmaints is fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea 13:56 oleonard rmaints? 13:56 wahanui qa_team is cait khall josef_moravec ashimema Joubu marcelr tcohen kohaputti kidclamp 13:56 Joubu qa_team? 13:56 wahanui hi oleopard 13:56 davidnind hi oleonard! 13:55 oleonard Hi davidnind 13:50 Joubu yes 13:45 oleonard Meeting in 15? 13:24 Joubu paxed: you can suggest to rangi if you know the steps to set it up. I do not have access to this server. 13:06 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24188 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Sorting AZ does not work 13:06 oleonard cait: Is Bug 24188 about articles like "the" being ignored in sorting? The screenshots look correctly-sorted to me. 12:56 ashimema wierd 12:54 magnuse works if i run it like "sudo PERL5LIB=/home/magnus/kohaclone/ KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/sites/instance/koha-conf.xml perl misc/batchRebuildBiblioTables.pl" 12:50 magnuse on a gitified install 12:50 magnuse i get this: Can't locate Koha/Script.pm in @INC (you may need to install the Koha::Script module) (@INC contains: /usr/share/koha/lib 12:50 magnuse if i run this: $ sudo koha-shell -c "perl misc/batchRebuildBiblioTables.pl" koh1 12:50 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11529 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, ere.maijala, RESOLVED FIXED, Add subtitle, medium and part fields to biblio table 12:50 magnuse the webinstaller says NOTE: misc/batchRebuildBiblioTables.pl should be run to populate the fields introduced in bug 11529. It may take some time for larger databases. 12:49 paxed Joubu: re bz, the email format is in one of the template files, not a setting 12:48 ashimema :) 12:47 * magnuse upgrades his ill demos to 19.11 12:47 magnuse ashimema++ 12:42 wynn1212 But anyway. Thank's for your help! 12:42 wynn1212 By now it just show nothing on patron relationship problems. 12:41 ashimema you're on a very shiny new release there. keep in touch if you find bugs. 😉 I'm happy to fix them as fast as we find them 12:40 ashimema glad to have been of service 12:40 ashimema :) 12:40 wynn1212 Ok. Thanks ashimema! 12:37 ashimema hope that helps 12:37 ashimema decide aunt isn't valid and find the user with that relationship and update it to use one of your allowed values. 12:37 ashimema or.. 12:37 ashimema the 'fix' is to then decide whether 'aunt' is valid and add it to the system preference.. 12:37 ashimema so, if you have mother|father|uncle in your system preference.. but you've somehow managed to add a user with a relationship of 'aunt' to your system.. the warning will show and the list will just contain 'aunt' instead of ARRAY(103fj29dj). 12:36 ashimema .. 12:36 ashimema you have borrowers with a relationship which doesn't match any of the relationships in the system preference 12:36 ashimema what it really means is 12:35 ashimema the error message will be clearer on release of 19.11.01 once my patch is pushed 12:35 ashimema but is worth being aware of 12:35 ashimema it won't cause any major issues for you 12:35 ashimema ish 12:35 wynn1212 ashimema: So It's safe to ignore? 12:34 ashimema Fair enough Joubu 12:33 ashimema I've just submitted a patch to make the warning clearer for that wynn1212 12:33 Joubu yes, we could. But really here is just the need to have strict "everywhere" 12:32 wynn1212 I have "Patron relationship problems" in "System information" on koha 19.11.00.000 12:32 ashimema why not whilst we're here update all cases? 12:32 ashimema why be inconsistent? 12:31 Joubu I can change the title to "enable strict" :) 12:30 Joubu ashimema: there is strict and warnings 12:28 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24217 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Failed QA , use Modern::Perl for modules 12:28 ashimema sorry Joubu.. back at you on bug 24217 12:28 oleonard This is the place wynn1212 12:27 wynn1212 Hi! Can I ask questions about koha problem here? 12:25 Joubu or you patched the code? 12:24 Joubu paxed: is it an admin preference? 12:23 paxed Joubu: i changed it on a bugz instance i maintain to display the text like "summary: new summary (WAS: old summary)" instead of two columns 12:23 ashimema but I gave up on it 12:23 Joubu IIRC that's an improvement, before we received 1 mail per line in the table :) 12:23 ashimema I can't find the bug now 12:22 Joubu ha, the table with remove/added/what 12:22 magnuse i love dcook, but i think maybe we should outnumber/outvote them in the question of minimum perl version... 12:21 paxed Joubu: what magnuse said 12:21 magnuse there are some mails from bugzilla that tries to display stuff in two columns, to show what was changed. those are pretty hard to read... 12:21 oleonard Hi all 12:20 Joubu paxed: not sure I understand what you mean. Do you have an example? Did you modify the default values in your preferences? 12:16 paxed like, who reads emails in fixed-width font? 12:16 paxed anyone else annoyed how bugzilla wraps bug change notification text fields to 20 chars? 12:15 Joubu we are 15 years behind without strict. Start with strict, fix the warnings, then ... whatever you want :) 12:12 ashimema with D8 coming to end of life we could even be so bold as to require 5.24 12:11 ashimema I have long advocated we upgrade our minimum perl version to 5.20 (debian 8 standard).. but dcook kicks it back as he wants ancient SUSE support 12:10 ashimema so... for that we should limit ourselve to `use Modern::Perl '2010';` 12:10 ashimema in theory we still force ourselves to support perl 5.10 (which I don't like at all) 12:09 ashimema having said that.. I've always advocted we should specify a year ;) 12:09 Joubu there are some left 12:09 Joubu me too! 12:07 ashimema surprised that's not done 12:07 ashimema wow 12:05 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24217 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , use Modern::Perl for modules 12:05 Joubu bug 24217, really... 11:58 ashimema there's plenty of low hanging fruit in the majors list.. stuff that's pretty easy to fix or triage down in status. 11:58 ashimema we should have a bug squashing day some time soon... 11:57 ashimema :) 11:49 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24216 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , kohastructure.sql uses BOOLEANs 11:49 paxed bug 24216 11:47 ashimema thanks dude :) 11:46 paxed ashimema: okay. 11:46 ashimema fancy reporting it paxed? 11:46 ashimema be a nice quick win for an academy bug perhaps.. 11:46 ashimema so it's likely fallen off somone's file 11:45 ashimema I did think we'd agreed to go back and fix them.. and thought tcohen had volunteered but I can't see any bug for it 11:45 ashimema so.. pre-existing stuff isn't caught 11:45 ashimema they check for changes in commits 11:43 paxed i guess the QA tools don't check the db structure for booleans 11:43 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22833 normal, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Block suspend and cancel on holds 11:43 * magnuse hopes bug 22833 is ok 11:42 magnuse hehe 11:42 ashimema squash all the bugs.. :) 11:42 ashimema that's the one 11:41 magnuse https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#SQL12:_Booleans 11:40 Joubu must be defined as tinyint(1) in the DB structure, then boolean in the schema file 11:39 ashimema but I can't remember what the QA script fires on.. we also talked about requiring the kohastrucutre file to be commented 11:39 ashimema I think I prefered tinyint(1) becuase BOOLEAN isn't standard SQL 11:39 ashimema tcohen and Joubu were involved.. as was I 11:38 ashimema it was in discussion but I thought we agreed on an approach 11:38 ashimema there's at least one bug regarding that.. 11:35 paxed there doesn't seem to be a consensus in kohastructure.sql whether a boolean is a tinyint(1) or a BOOLEAN 11:29 ashimema :) 11:29 Joubu there is a QA test for that 11:28 ashimema thanks for flagging it 11:21 magnuse and i am adding two more 11:21 magnuse looks like Itemtype.pm has one boolean that is not flagged 11:17 ashimema I believe we have tests to catch it though unless I'm mistaken.. I've certainly added them in followups a few times when i've forgotten so something must be alerting me to my mistake ;) 11:16 ashimema I should.. but I'm not in the best habbits for it.. find it easy to forget :( 11:16 ashimema good question 11:15 magnuse ashimema: how about this: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#DBIC_schema_files "Booleans have to be annotated as booleans in the schema files." Do you do that too? 11:12 magnuse clever ashimema 10:16 ashimema regardles of how they were comitted in the first place 10:16 ashimema whenever the script alerts me to those changes I run through the process of doing the DB and Schema updates as required.. 10:15 ashimema as RM I don't worry too much.. having a distinct patch for schema changes helps me in so much as it's a reminder to reubild the schema.. but in general I have scripts that remind me to do DB updates stuff which are triggered by the present of files in atomicupdate or changes to the standard sql files.. 10:02 magnuse after lunch, that is... 10:02 magnuse Joubu++ 10:02 magnuse ah, ok, this thing is not so big, so i'll do one patch, sans schema changes 09:51 Joubu the thing to not add is the schema changes, they should not be provided, or in a separate patch 09:50 Joubu it's not really a guideline, not sure it's enforced by QA. It is more for readability if the patch is big 09:45 magnuse hm, where are the guidelines on splitting into several patches for database updates etc? 09:41 magnuse nlegrand: sounds like fun! 09:29 nlegrand magnuse: well I've worked with TEI which is not a standard but only “guidelines†and which everyone thinks it has the same virtues a standard has. Pretty confusing. 09:18 magnuse is MARC one of the most flexible standards in existence? 09:12 nlegrand It's always a wonder to me when the ABES (kind of authority for cataloguing in the french university libraries) notifies us practices to be UNIMARC compliant when we are UNIMARC non compliant in almost everyzone :D 09:08 nlegrand we should extract just part of this field to map it to koha publication date. 09:07 nlegrand note this is note standard UNIMARC, it is more “frenchuniversitylibrariesMARC†or “ABESMARC†09:06 nlegrand kohaputti: the librarian write the gregorian publication date in zone 100: http://documentation.abes.fr/sudoc/formats/unmb/zones/100.htm 09:04 ashimema indeed 09:02 cait i don't think marc lends to that 09:02 ashimema but.. it sounds like there are waaaay too many variations to get it right 09:01 ashimema with the standardised one going through a conversion 09:01 ashimema I imagine cataloguers are getting dates from books and those dates are localized.. so they want to enter the localised date and have it magically populate both the localised and standardised fields 09:00 ashimema i imagine it's the other way around kohaputti 09:00 kohaputti like is it possible to translate to all calendar systems you use from one calendar system 08:59 kohaputti nlegrand, are you able to write the dates in one way and then translate the dates to other calendar systems? 08:59 nlegrand :) 08:57 ashimema good luck with that ;) 08:57 ashimema ouch 08:56 nlegrand ashimema: it'll be very hard to implement. We've got dates in more than thirty hundred languages, with almost every writting system of the world, and most of those dates are written in a non standard way. 08:56 cait not sure how htis is handled in marc 08:56 ashimema for the display field.. is there a part of the field which states what calendar it's using? 08:54 cait and they can also add the hebrew years for display 08:54 cait we are lucky there - the 'standard year' is part of the union catalog cataloguing rules so 008 is set nicely 08:53 cait actuaqlly i think this bit makes sense... but in general i agree 08:53 ashimema are there any standard routines for getting a standardised date from the various localised dates? 08:53 cait so in 008 you'd have a sortable date... not sure if unimarc has something equivalent 08:53 magnuse marc is a mess 08:53 cait and then the publication date /copyright date mess is handled in the 260/264 (rda) 08:52 cait which is a standardized date 08:52 ashimema hehe 08:52 cait what marc21 one does is sort on the date in 008 08:52 cait search in the records is a different matter 08:52 cait i think it's not that bad with the calendar 08:52 nlegrand ashimema: ho certainly, but have you seen my motto ;D 08:52 nlegrand My motto is: “never mess with date†and everytime I see someone doing a patch on dates or holidays I'm thinking “how brave he is†or just “wowâ€. 08:51 ashimema but it sounds resolvable by code to me.. 08:51 ashimema I'm not sure I followed that fully.. 08:50 nlegrand Biblibre and a lot of other vendors are complaining ^^ 08:50 nlegrand and right in january, the french university libraries are supposed to map a new field to the koha field without correcting all the preceding fields. 08:48 nlegrand There is a standart date in the coded areas we don't know how to extract it to apply it to a koha field 08:48 magnuse nlegrand: awesome! :-) 08:48 nlegrand So as an oriental library we have all the calendar system of the world and cannot really sort by date. 08:47 nlegrand speaking about years, it's something a bit hard to do for us in Koha right now, because the mapped unimarc field is the field that print the year as it is written in the books. 08:46 nlegrand 5780 since the 30 september 2019 08:45 cait what's the year right now? 08:45 cait a good new year to you too :) 08:43 nlegrand It's a greeting for the new year and also everyday ^^ 08:43 cait :) 08:43 ashimema [off] I'm starting to realy worry about Mirko.. has anyone heard from him recently? 08:43 nlegrand a gut yor! 08:43 nlegrand yiddish :) 08:42 cait hebrew? 08:42 nlegrand ×Ö· גוט ×™×ָר! 08:27 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U18 build #503: FIXED in 47 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U18/503/ 08:27 wahanui Congratulations! 08:27 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 08:05 magnuse hiya alex_a 07:59 alex_a Bonjour 07:58 huginn magnuse: downloading the Perl source 07:58 magnuse @confetti 07:57 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9_MDB_Latest build #8: FIXED in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D9_MDB_Latest/8/ 07:57 wahanui Congratulations! 07:57 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 07:56 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #560: FIXED in 37 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D8/560/ 07:56 wahanui Congratulations! 07:56 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 07:52 reiveune salut magnuse 07:50 magnuse bonjour reiveune 07:41 reiveune hello 07:16 magnuse \o/ 04:46 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #2: SUCCESS in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/2/ 04:11 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #1: SUCCESS in 36 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/1/ 03:25 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #50: ABORTED in 45 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/50/ 03:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #49: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/49/ 03:15 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #48: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/48/ 02:55 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #47: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/47/ 02:49 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #46: STILL FAILING in 4 min 10 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/46/ 02:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #45: STILL FAILING in 1.7 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/45/ 02:34 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #44: STILL FAILING in 4 min 2 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/44/ 02:26 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #43: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/43/ 02:26 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #42: STILL FAILING in 5 min 49 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/42/ 02:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #41: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/41/ 02:10 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #40: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/40/ 02:00 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #39: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/39/ 01:45 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #38: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/38/ 01:25 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #37: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/37/ 01:15 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #36: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/36/ 01:00 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #35: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/35/ 00:50 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #34: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/34/ 00:32 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #33: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/33/ 00:28 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_D9 build #66: STILL UNSTABLE in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.05_D9/66/ 00:22 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #32: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/32/ 00:21 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_D8 build #65: STILL UNSTABLE in 32 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.05_D8/65/ 00:12 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_U18 build #65: STILL UNSTABLE in 37 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.05_U18/65/