Time Nick Message 00:12 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_U18 build #65: STILL UNSTABLE in 37 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.05_U18/65/ 00:21 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_D8 build #65: STILL UNSTABLE in 32 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.05_D8/65/ 00:22 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #32: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/32/ 00:28 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.05_D9 build #66: STILL UNSTABLE in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.05_D9/66/ 00:32 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #33: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/33/ 00:50 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #34: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/34/ 01:00 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #35: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/35/ 01:15 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #36: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/36/ 01:25 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #37: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/37/ 01:45 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #38: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/38/ 02:00 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #39: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/39/ 02:10 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #40: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/40/ 02:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #41: STILL FAILING in 10 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/41/ 02:26 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #42: STILL FAILING in 5 min 49 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/42/ 02:26 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #43: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/43/ 02:34 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #44: STILL FAILING in 4 min 2 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/44/ 02:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #45: STILL FAILING in 1.7 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/45/ 02:49 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #46: STILL FAILING in 4 min 10 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/46/ 02:55 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #47: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/47/ 03:15 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #48: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/48/ 03:20 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #49: STILL FAILING in 1.6 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/49/ 03:25 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #50: ABORTED in 45 sec: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/50/ 04:11 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #1: SUCCESS in 36 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/1/ 04:46 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #2: SUCCESS in 34 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/2/ 07:16 magnuse \o/ 07:41 reiveune hello 07:50 magnuse bonjour reiveune 07:52 reiveune salut magnuse 07:56 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 07:56 wahanui Congratulations! 07:56 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #560: FIXED in 37 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D8/560/ 07:57 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 07:57 wahanui Congratulations! 07:57 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_D9_MDB_Latest build #8: FIXED in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D9_MDB_Latest/8/ 07:58 magnuse @confetti 07:58 huginn magnuse: downloading the Perl source 07:59 alex_a Bonjour 08:05 magnuse hiya alex_a 08:27 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed! 08:27 wahanui Congratulations! 08:27 koha-jenkins Project Koha_Master_U18 build #503: FIXED in 47 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U18/503/ 08:42 nlegrand ×Ö· גוט ×™×ָר! 08:42 cait hebrew? 08:43 nlegrand yiddish :) 08:43 nlegrand a gut yor! 08:43 ashimema [off] I'm starting to realy worry about Mirko.. has anyone heard from him recently? 08:43 cait :) 08:43 nlegrand It's a greeting for the new year and also everyday ^^ 08:45 cait a good new year to you too :) 08:45 cait what's the year right now? 08:46 nlegrand 5780 since the 30 september 2019 08:47 nlegrand speaking about years, it's something a bit hard to do for us in Koha right now, because the mapped unimarc field is the field that print the year as it is written in the books. 08:48 nlegrand So as an oriental library we have all the calendar system of the world and cannot really sort by date. 08:48 magnuse nlegrand: awesome! :-) 08:48 nlegrand There is a standart date in the coded areas we don't know how to extract it to apply it to a koha field 08:50 nlegrand and right in january, the french university libraries are supposed to map a new field to the koha field without correcting all the preceding fields. 08:50 nlegrand Biblibre and a lot of other vendors are complaining ^^ 08:51 ashimema I'm not sure I followed that fully.. 08:51 ashimema but it sounds resolvable by code to me.. 08:52 nlegrand My motto is: “never mess with date†and everytime I see someone doing a patch on dates or holidays I'm thinking “how brave he is†or just “wowâ€. 08:52 nlegrand ashimema: ho certainly, but have you seen my motto ;D 08:52 cait i think it's not that bad with the calendar 08:52 cait search in the records is a different matter 08:52 cait what marc21 one does is sort on the date in 008 08:52 ashimema hehe 08:52 cait which is a standardized date 08:53 cait and then the publication date /copyright date mess is handled in the 260/264 (rda) 08:53 magnuse marc is a mess 08:53 cait so in 008 you'd have a sortable date... not sure if unimarc has something equivalent 08:53 ashimema are there any standard routines for getting a standardised date from the various localised dates? 08:53 cait actuaqlly i think this bit makes sense... but in general i agree 08:54 cait we are lucky there - the 'standard year' is part of the union catalog cataloguing rules so 008 is set nicely 08:54 cait and they can also add the hebrew years for display 08:56 ashimema for the display field.. is there a part of the field which states what calendar it's using? 08:56 cait not sure how htis is handled in marc 08:56 nlegrand ashimema: it'll be very hard to implement. We've got dates in more than thirty hundred languages, with almost every writting system of the world, and most of those dates are written in a non standard way. 08:57 ashimema ouch 08:57 ashimema good luck with that ;) 08:59 nlegrand :) 08:59 kohaputti nlegrand, are you able to write the dates in one way and then translate the dates to other calendar systems? 09:00 kohaputti like is it possible to translate to all calendar systems you use from one calendar system 09:00 ashimema i imagine it's the other way around kohaputti 09:01 ashimema I imagine cataloguers are getting dates from books and those dates are localized.. so they want to enter the localised date and have it magically populate both the localised and standardised fields 09:01 ashimema with the standardised one going through a conversion 09:02 ashimema but.. it sounds like there are waaaay too many variations to get it right 09:02 cait i don't think marc lends to that 09:04 ashimema indeed 09:06 nlegrand kohaputti: the librarian write the gregorian publication date in zone 100: http://documentation.abes.fr/sudoc/formats/unmb/zones/100.htm 09:07 nlegrand note this is note standard UNIMARC, it is more “frenchuniversitylibrariesMARC†or “ABESMARC†09:08 nlegrand we should extract just part of this field to map it to koha publication date. 09:12 nlegrand It's always a wonder to me when the ABES (kind of authority for cataloguing in the french university libraries) notifies us practices to be UNIMARC compliant when we are UNIMARC non compliant in almost everyzone :D 09:18 magnuse is MARC one of the most flexible standards in existence? 09:29 nlegrand magnuse: well I've worked with TEI which is not a standard but only “guidelines†and which everyone thinks it has the same virtues a standard has. Pretty confusing. 09:41 magnuse nlegrand: sounds like fun! 09:45 magnuse hm, where are the guidelines on splitting into several patches for database updates etc? 09:50 Joubu it's not really a guideline, not sure it's enforced by QA. It is more for readability if the patch is big 09:51 Joubu the thing to not add is the schema changes, they should not be provided, or in a separate patch 10:02 magnuse ah, ok, this thing is not so big, so i'll do one patch, sans schema changes 10:02 magnuse Joubu++ 10:02 magnuse after lunch, that is... 10:15 ashimema as RM I don't worry too much.. having a distinct patch for schema changes helps me in so much as it's a reminder to reubild the schema.. but in general I have scripts that remind me to do DB updates stuff which are triggered by the present of files in atomicupdate or changes to the standard sql files.. 10:16 ashimema whenever the script alerts me to those changes I run through the process of doing the DB and Schema updates as required.. 10:16 ashimema regardles of how they were comitted in the first place 11:12 magnuse clever ashimema 11:15 magnuse ashimema: how about this: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#DBIC_schema_files "Booleans have to be annotated as booleans in the schema files." Do you do that too? 11:16 ashimema good question 11:16 ashimema I should.. but I'm not in the best habbits for it.. find it easy to forget :( 11:17 ashimema I believe we have tests to catch it though unless I'm mistaken.. I've certainly added them in followups a few times when i've forgotten so something must be alerting me to my mistake ;) 11:21 magnuse looks like Itemtype.pm has one boolean that is not flagged 11:21 magnuse and i am adding two more 11:28 ashimema thanks for flagging it 11:29 Joubu there is a QA test for that 11:29 ashimema :) 11:35 paxed there doesn't seem to be a consensus in kohastructure.sql whether a boolean is a tinyint(1) or a BOOLEAN 11:38 ashimema there's at least one bug regarding that.. 11:38 ashimema it was in discussion but I thought we agreed on an approach 11:39 ashimema tcohen and Joubu were involved.. as was I 11:39 ashimema I think I prefered tinyint(1) becuase BOOLEAN isn't standard SQL 11:39 ashimema but I can't remember what the QA script fires on.. we also talked about requiring the kohastrucutre file to be commented 11:40 Joubu must be defined as tinyint(1) in the DB structure, then boolean in the schema file 11:41 magnuse https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Coding_Guidelines#SQL12:_Booleans 11:42 ashimema that's the one 11:42 ashimema squash all the bugs.. :) 11:42 magnuse hehe 11:43 * magnuse hopes bug 22833 is ok 11:43 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22833 normal, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Block suspend and cancel on holds 11:43 paxed i guess the QA tools don't check the db structure for booleans 11:45 ashimema they check for changes in commits 11:45 ashimema so.. pre-existing stuff isn't caught 11:45 ashimema I did think we'd agreed to go back and fix them.. and thought tcohen had volunteered but I can't see any bug for it 11:46 ashimema so it's likely fallen off somone's file 11:46 ashimema be a nice quick win for an academy bug perhaps.. 11:46 ashimema fancy reporting it paxed? 11:46 paxed ashimema: okay. 11:47 ashimema thanks dude :) 11:49 paxed bug 24216 11:49 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24216 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , kohastructure.sql uses BOOLEANs 11:57 ashimema :) 11:58 ashimema we should have a bug squashing day some time soon... 11:58 ashimema there's plenty of low hanging fruit in the majors list.. stuff that's pretty easy to fix or triage down in status. 12:05 Joubu bug 24217, really... 12:05 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24217 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , use Modern::Perl for modules 12:07 ashimema wow 12:07 ashimema surprised that's not done 12:09 Joubu me too! 12:09 Joubu there are some left 12:09 ashimema having said that.. I've always advocted we should specify a year ;) 12:10 ashimema in theory we still force ourselves to support perl 5.10 (which I don't like at all) 12:10 ashimema so... for that we should limit ourselve to `use Modern::Perl '2010';` 12:11 ashimema I have long advocated we upgrade our minimum perl version to 5.20 (debian 8 standard).. but dcook kicks it back as he wants ancient SUSE support 12:12 ashimema with D8 coming to end of life we could even be so bold as to require 5.24 12:15 Joubu we are 15 years behind without strict. Start with strict, fix the warnings, then ... whatever you want :) 12:16 paxed anyone else annoyed how bugzilla wraps bug change notification text fields to 20 chars? 12:16 paxed like, who reads emails in fixed-width font? 12:20 Joubu paxed: not sure I understand what you mean. Do you have an example? Did you modify the default values in your preferences? 12:21 oleonard Hi all 12:21 magnuse there are some mails from bugzilla that tries to display stuff in two columns, to show what was changed. those are pretty hard to read... 12:21 paxed Joubu: what magnuse said 12:22 magnuse i love dcook, but i think maybe we should outnumber/outvote them in the question of minimum perl version... 12:22 Joubu ha, the table with remove/added/what 12:23 ashimema I can't find the bug now 12:23 Joubu IIRC that's an improvement, before we received 1 mail per line in the table :) 12:23 ashimema but I gave up on it 12:23 paxed Joubu: i changed it on a bugz instance i maintain to display the text like "summary: new summary (WAS: old summary)" instead of two columns 12:24 Joubu paxed: is it an admin preference? 12:25 Joubu or you patched the code? 12:27 wynn1212 Hi! Can I ask questions about koha problem here? 12:28 oleonard This is the place wynn1212 12:28 ashimema sorry Joubu.. back at you on bug 24217 12:28 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24217 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Failed QA , use Modern::Perl for modules 12:30 Joubu ashimema: there is strict and warnings 12:31 Joubu I can change the title to "enable strict" :) 12:32 ashimema why be inconsistent? 12:32 ashimema why not whilst we're here update all cases? 12:32 wynn1212 I have "Patron relationship problems" in "System information" on koha 19.11.00.000 12:33 Joubu yes, we could. But really here is just the need to have strict "everywhere" 12:33 ashimema I've just submitted a patch to make the warning clearer for that wynn1212 12:34 ashimema Fair enough Joubu 12:35 wynn1212 ashimema: So It's safe to ignore? 12:35 ashimema ish 12:35 ashimema it won't cause any major issues for you 12:35 ashimema but is worth being aware of 12:35 ashimema the error message will be clearer on release of 19.11.01 once my patch is pushed 12:36 ashimema what it really means is 12:36 ashimema you have borrowers with a relationship which doesn't match any of the relationships in the system preference 12:36 ashimema .. 12:37 ashimema so, if you have mother|father|uncle in your system preference.. but you've somehow managed to add a user with a relationship of 'aunt' to your system.. the warning will show and the list will just contain 'aunt' instead of ARRAY(103fj29dj). 12:37 ashimema the 'fix' is to then decide whether 'aunt' is valid and add it to the system preference.. 12:37 ashimema or.. 12:37 ashimema decide aunt isn't valid and find the user with that relationship and update it to use one of your allowed values. 12:37 ashimema hope that helps 12:40 wynn1212 Ok. Thanks ashimema! 12:40 ashimema :) 12:40 ashimema glad to have been of service 12:41 ashimema you're on a very shiny new release there. keep in touch if you find bugs. 😉 I'm happy to fix them as fast as we find them 12:42 wynn1212 By now it just show nothing on patron relationship problems. 12:42 wynn1212 But anyway. Thank's for your help! 12:47 magnuse ashimema++ 12:47 * magnuse upgrades his ill demos to 19.11 12:48 ashimema :) 12:49 paxed Joubu: re bz, the email format is in one of the template files, not a setting 12:50 magnuse the webinstaller says NOTE: misc/batchRebuildBiblioTables.pl should be run to populate the fields introduced in bug 11529. It may take some time for larger databases. 12:50 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11529 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, ere.maijala, RESOLVED FIXED, Add subtitle, medium and part fields to biblio table 12:50 magnuse if i run this: $ sudo koha-shell -c "perl misc/batchRebuildBiblioTables.pl" koh1 12:50 magnuse i get this: Can't locate Koha/Script.pm in @INC (you may need to install the Koha::Script module) (@INC contains: /usr/share/koha/lib 12:50 magnuse on a gitified install 12:54 magnuse works if i run it like "sudo PERL5LIB=/home/magnus/kohaclone/ KOHA_CONF=/etc/koha/sites/instance/koha-conf.xml perl misc/batchRebuildBiblioTables.pl" 12:56 ashimema wierd 13:06 oleonard cait: Is Bug 24188 about articles like "the" being ignored in sorting? The screenshots look correctly-sorted to me. 13:06 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24188 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Sorting AZ does not work 13:24 Joubu paxed: you can suggest to rangi if you know the steps to set it up. I do not have access to this server. 13:45 oleonard Meeting in 15? 13:50 Joubu yes 13:55 oleonard Hi davidnind 13:56 davidnind hi oleonard! 13:56 wahanui hi oleopard 13:56 Joubu qa_team? 13:56 wahanui qa_team is cait khall josef_moravec ashimema Joubu marcelr tcohen kohaputti kidclamp 13:56 oleonard rmaints? 13:56 wahanui it has been said that rmaints is fridolin, lucas and wizzyrea 13:57 oleonard avengers? 13:57 oleonard Okay we're on our own there. 13:57 ashimema lots need updating 13:57 Joubu no wahanui, qa_team is cait jajm alex_a khall josef_moravec Joubu marcelr tcohen kohaputti kidclamp 13:57 wahanui okay, Joubu. 13:57 paxed Joubu: okay, i'll do that once i'm in front of a computer 13:57 ashimema 3 mins 13:57 * ashimema should learn to not get stick into code just before a meeting is meant to start 13:58 Joubu no wahanui, qa_team is cait Joubu marcelr kohaputti josef_moravec tcohen kidclamp khall 13:58 wahanui okay, Joubu. 14:00 * fridolin sorry I'm buzy 14:00 ashimema #startmeeting General IRC meeting 11 December 2019 14:00 huginn Meeting started Wed Dec 11 14:00:38 2019 UTC. The chair is ashimema. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:00 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:00 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_11_december_2019' 14:00 ashimema #topic Introductions 14:00 ashimema #info Please introduce yourselve with an #info to appear in the minutes. 14:01 ashimema #info Martin Renvoize, PTFS Europe, UK 14:01 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries, Ohio, USA 14:01 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart 14:01 ashimema #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_11_December_2019 Today's agenda 14:02 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand 14:02 ashimema We'll wait a few minutes for any straggler to arrive :) 14:03 oleonard C'mon stragglers 14:05 ashimema #topic Announcements 14:05 magnuse #info Magnus Enger. Libriotech, Norway 14:06 ashimema #info The 19.11 release happened, all be it a little late. Thanks go out to Mason for stepping in and doing the packaging at the last minute. 14:06 kidclamp #info Nick Clemens, BYWater Solutions 14:06 magnuse mtj++ 14:06 ashimema #info 19.11, 19.05.x and 18.11.x releases all included security patches this recent release 14:07 oleonard ashimema++ 14:07 oleonard mtj++ 14:07 ashimema community++ 14:07 ashimema it's a team effort 14:07 ashimema as our lone nz representative this afternoon.. any kohacon updates to pass along davidnind ? 14:08 * ashimema is always impressed you make the meetings at these crazy times 14:08 davidnind #info Extended closing date for Kohacon20 proposals for talks is 13 December 14:08 ashimema :) 14:08 ashimema glad you do.. I'd totally forgotten that one 14:08 davidnind :) 14:09 ashimema I think we can move on 14:09 ashimema #topic Update on releases 14:09 ashimema #topic 20.05 (next release) 14:10 ashimema #info 19.11 have been branched and master is now the working version for the next feature release, 20.05 14:11 ashimema #info As is the pattern, we will be sticking to bugfixes only up until the end of the month, but then I hope to start pushing enhancements early January, focusing on the more experimental one's first to give us a large a section of the release cycle to fix any subsequent bugs before release. 14:11 ashimema #info `fail fast` and `experiment and stabalise` 14:11 Joubu which ones do you have in mind? 14:12 ashimema I need to go through the list, but I'm open to suggestions ;) 14:12 oleonard Bug 15522? 14:12 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15522 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , New interface for revamped circulation rules 14:12 Joubu you have my suggestions already ;) 14:12 ashimema architectural ones are up there, mojolicious too 14:12 ashimema yup, that's on my list oleonard 14:13 caroline_catlady #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inlibro 14:13 ashimema I hope to send out a mail over xmas asking people to line up their ducks for January pushes... setting out some bugs I hope to focus on and setting some rough deadlines to see them moving. 14:13 caroline_catlady [off] sorry I'm late 14:14 ashimema we don't have any rmaints? present do we :( 14:14 oleonard [off] Gotta be careful with those ducks, people are trigger-happy around here 14:14 davidnind #info koha-US is planning an online conference (Koha-a-thon) for 24 April, call for talks closes 10 January 14:15 ashimema #info Rmaints are tentatively starting to push bugs to their respective branches. 14:15 davidnind #info Details for the Koha-a-thon https://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/2019-December/053991.html 14:15 ashimema thanks david. 14:16 davidnind #info The dates for the BibLibre Koha Hackfest in Marseille are 23-27 March 2020 14:16 Joubu ha yes, paul_p annonced the hackfest on the list 14:16 Joubu heh, that! 14:16 ashimema hackfest is in the community calendar :) 14:16 ashimema shall I add some of the other events? 14:16 Joubu yup 14:17 jzairo some more information for koha-US and the kohathon (they changed the name) to make it easier https://bywatersolutions.com/news/kohathon-call-for-proposals 14:19 ashimema added it to the community calendar 14:19 ashimema thanks jzairo for the update 14:19 jzairo :) 14:19 ashimema ok.. onto the next topic 14:20 ashimema #topic Any Other Business 14:20 ashimema #topic Proposal to try rocket.chat as an alternative/compliment of IRC 14:20 davidnind #info the 3rd Koha Pakistan International Conference is 16-18 April 2020 http://2020.kohapakistan.org/ 14:20 davidnind (sorry, a bit slow!) 14:21 tcohen hola 14:21 tcohen sorry 14:21 ashimema #info I've discussed with a few people the prospect of adding an alternative to IRC as it seems to be a barrier to entry for some. 14:22 Joubu source? :) 14:23 ashimema #info After a little research I'm proposing the creation of a rocket.chat server (I'll try to take on setting one up for a trial) and having it bridge to the existing IRC room. 14:23 ashimema sources.. our customers, bywater customers, various developers I've spoken to 14:24 Joubu they said that IRC is a barrier to entry? 14:24 ashimema I'm interested in hearing opinions in this public forum 14:24 oleonard I agree that IRC is a barrier to entry 14:25 oleonard I think rocket.chat looks very interesting 14:25 ashimema #info After a little research I'm proposing the creation of a rocket.chat server (I'll try to take on setting one up for a trial) and having it bridge to the existing IRC room. 14:25 ashimema sources.. our customers, bywater customers, various developers I've spoken to 14:25 ashimema I'm interested in hearing opinions in this public forum 14:25 tcohen Joubu: http://cbs-news.us/2019/12/11/Koha-users-have-difficulties-with-IRC/9S29oYSB1c2VycyBoYXZlIGRpZmZpY3VsdGllcyB3aXRoIElSQw==.Q29uc3VsdGVkIHBvdGVudGlhbCB1c2VycyBoYXZlIGV4cHJlc3NlZCBJUkMgaXMgYSBiYXJyaWVyLg==.aHR0cHM6Ly9saXZlLnN0YXRpY2ZsaWNrci5jb20vMTgxMi80MjA2MjUzNjU4MF9hYTQ3ZDBlOWQ2X3ouanBn 14:26 caroline_catlady tcohen: lol! XD 14:26 caroline_catlady #link https://rocket.chat/ 14:26 davidnind I think Catalyst chose it for use internally - post from 2016 https://www.catalyst.net.nz/blog/bleeding-edge-chat 14:27 davidnind not sure whether things have changed.. 14:27 oleonard I'll vote to approve any chat solution which will tell me the weather 14:27 ashimema we've already lost a number of developers from the irc space to slack.. just saying ;) 14:27 davidnind yeah weather! 14:28 caroline_catlady would bots still work? 14:28 Joubu @wunder Madrid 14:28 caroline_catlady I would miss wahanui saying random things 14:28 huginn Joubu: Error: Failed to load Wunderground API. Check the logs for more information. 14:28 ashimema that's the main reason i want to bridge it to the irc channel, at least in the short term.. so we can continue to use the existing bots 14:28 Joubu stupid bots, change bots 14:29 ashimema I certainly don't want to cut off existing workflows.. just add an option for less technically adept people 14:29 Joubu ashimema: lost developers? who? 14:29 Joubu tcohen has a link for that I guess 14:29 Joubu :) 14:30 ashimema irc isn't 'that' technical to be honest.. but it looks outdated to many and doesn't support allot of the modern communication expectations. 14:30 tcohen I do 14:30 ashimema well.. I often poke people who are missing via slack to get them to come here.. khall is a good example 14:30 caroline_catlady gifs ftw ;) 14:30 Joubu I am not against the idea, but the reasons are not the good ones in my opinion 14:30 Joubu khall: you are here, right? 14:31 ashimema ok.. what would be a good reason then Joubu 14:31 oleonard I think there's no reason at all not to give rocket.chat a try if ashimema is willing to spend some time on it 14:31 ashimema I can't see a better reason than to enable more people to join the community. 14:31 ashimema but hey 14:31 oleonard The rocket.chat solution is designed specifically to continue IRC support 14:31 Joubu paste/videoconf/code sharing in the same app 14:31 Joubu for instance 14:32 Joubu but "too complicate" and "we lost developers" sound wrong to me 14:32 ashimema and those are all the things I mean by 'but it looks outdated to many and doesn't support allot of the modern communication expectations.' 14:32 ashimema rocket.chat support all of those 14:33 oleonard Joubu: What is your argument for not trying rocket.chat? 14:33 ashimema moving on.. there seems to be no hard objections so I'll spend a little time getting something setup for a trial. 14:33 Joubu oleonard: I never said that. I am not the one who is trying to convince people 14:34 Joubu ashimema: what's the proposal then? 14:34 Joubu I mean, who, when, where? 14:34 oleonard Joubu: You've offered only arguments against the idea, none in support of the status quo 14:34 ashimema #action ashimema is going to investigate setting up a bridged rocket.chat server to allow a more modern form of instance communication for the community. 14:34 Joubu I guess we will want to host it somewhere 14:35 ashimema to start with I was going to personally host it and see what sort of adoption it gets 14:35 magnuse if ptfse can't host it i think libriotech can (on linode) 14:35 ashimema I'm suggesting a lightweight trial of it to start with 14:36 Joubu oleonard: I did not say I was against the idea, sorry if it is what has been understood 14:37 Joubu not* 14:37 ashimema OK.. I think we can probably move onto my next controvertial topic ;) 14:37 ashimema oh.. actually, the next one isn't controvertial 14:37 Joubu yes it is, you will need to setup a date 14:37 ashimema #topic Shall we bring back an internation bug squashing day? 14:37 ashimema haha.. 14:37 ashimema who used to take on organising them.. I don't remember? 14:38 magnuse i did, back in the day 14:38 ashimema but.. I'd like to suggest we get one in the diary and publicise it.. 14:38 ashimema I'm all about trying to get more people looking at bugzilla and helping each other move bugs on at the moment.. such a day seems like a good idea 14:39 magnuse yup, worth a try 14:40 ashimema I'm thinking early to mid january for a rough date.. once xmas is someone out of the way but whilst people are hopefully fresh and rested still from the holidays 14:40 davidnind https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Category:Global_bug_squashing_days 14:40 ashimema s/someone/somewhat 14:40 davidnind excellent idea! 14:40 oleonard When is Catalyst Academy? Anyone know? 14:40 * ashimema was about to ask that next :) 14:41 davidnind is in January 14:41 cait sorry for missing the meeting... was in another lengthy meeting 14:41 ashimema magnuse do you have any recollection as to whether end of week or beggining generally got mroe attendance? 14:41 ashimema we're still going cait 14:42 ashimema just working out the logistics of organising a bug squashing day 14:42 davidnind 6-17th January, last week is the project week where they work on projects https://www.catalyst.net.nz/open-source-academy 14:42 ashimema currently I have 10th Jan in my head as a proposal 14:42 Joubu Project week: 14-17 January 2020 14:42 Joubu https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Catalyst_Academy 14:43 cait ah nice 14:43 cait i like bug squashing :) 14:43 ashimema aha.. 14:43 ashimema perhaps delay to 17 or 16th perhaps then... 14:43 cait could we have a december bug sqhash? 14:43 ashimema that would be a nice way to make sure we pick off at least a few academy bugs 14:43 cait as we are focusing on bugs at the moment until beginning of january 14:43 cait we can put little christmas hats on the bugs... 14:44 ashimema lol 14:44 ashimema I'm thinking I'll have a triaging session during december ready to get action in a squashing day early Jan 14:44 ashimema my gut says allot of people are already winding down for xmas and it's a bit late to organise a gbsd this month 14:45 magnuse ashimema: nah, can't say i do 14:45 ashimema I may be wrong.. let me know :) 14:45 magnuse yeah, i'd say january is better 14:45 * oleonard settling in for a long winter's nap 14:45 magnuse hehe 14:46 ashimema 17th suit people then? 14:46 tcohen \o/ 14:46 magnuse +1 14:47 ashimema it's a friday to correspond with inLibros' friday community slot (and I think Bywater has a similar Friday for community stuff slot) 14:47 magnuse sorry, gotta run 14:47 davidnind +1 14:47 caroline_catlady I will make sure our staff is on it 14:47 * ashimema tihnks we should volunteer magnuse to organise it as he's running away now.. 14:47 ashimema ok.. I'll send out a mail and start the process 14:47 ashimema #action ashimema to send out a global bug squashing day announcement email 14:48 oleonard [off] Y'all can give me a day-early birthday present and sign off on all my patches 14:48 ashimema #info Next global bug squashing day to take place 17th January 14:48 ashimema hehe 14:48 davidnind there is a template for the wiki as well 14:48 ashimema brill 14:48 magnuse ashimema: i'll do it if noone else wants to have a go 14:48 cait ok with january too :) 14:48 ashimema moving onto my last controvertial topic.. 14:49 ashimema #topic Are we happy with the existing release process and cycle? 14:49 ashimema Broad question I wanted to raise to get wider audience 14:49 ashimema lots of chatter on WhatsApp and in Twitter land after verious acquisitions having taking place this month and the ever increasing focus on Folio 14:50 ashimema do we think as a community we are remaining competative or do we need to make any changes to try and continue to be 14:50 oleonard I'm concerned that the `fail fast, experiment and stabilize` process won't have time enough for the stabilize step if we speed things up 14:50 ashimema I have my own concerns which I'm sure people have heard before 14:51 ashimema well.. I'm not really envisaging much change this cycle really.. it's more of a wider question and setting up idea's and plans for subsquent cycles 14:52 ashimema Ubuntu for example has a flip/flop cycle which spans 12 months.. their two releases a year have an experimental 6 months followed by a stabalisation 6 months 14:52 caroline_catlady I know here (and I think in most support companies?) we only upgrade every 2 versions (for us it's every .05) 14:53 ashimema mm.. so I think we still need some sort of long term support idea 14:53 cait we are on the .11 14:53 talljoy we upgrade every release on the point .06 usually 14:53 ashimema but do we need to support 3 versions simultaneosly? 14:53 cait or at least at the moment target those 14:54 ashimema it's allot to ask to find 3 rmaints every 6 months 14:54 cait i think I could imagine an LTS version 14:54 cait but having one version for 1.5 years is good 14:54 ashimema and.. are the .05/.06 releases actually stable if the majority of users aren't looking at a release until that point.. 14:54 ashimema i.e are we not just shifting the bugs down 14:55 wizzyrea #info liz rea 14:56 * ashimema isn't being deliberately obtuse.. I just want to get opinions 14:56 davidnind have some sort of survey - get the views of support providers, self-hosters, etc 14:56 talljoy #info Joy Nelson 14:56 caroline_catlady I'm just wondering what would be the repercussions of changing the cuycle 14:56 ashimema I've worked in a few different cycles over the years and they all have their own benefits and problems 14:56 talljoy most bugs are fixed in .03 and .04 of every release. but i'm not sure when they are actually found to be included in those stable point releases 14:57 oleonard davidnind++ 14:57 * talljoy has graphs 14:57 davidnind tricky bit might be the actual questions to ask 14:57 cait talljoy: can you share? it sounds interesting 14:57 ashimema be interested in seeing those graphs talljoy 14:57 cait I have a feeling that our latest 2 have been a bit ... less stable 14:57 talljoy i can clean up a bit and send on the list. yes! 14:57 ashimema yeah.. hense the open floor here.. so I have some help coming up with questions ;) 14:57 talljoy i wanted to dig a big deeper if i can and may need khall to help with the pulling data from bz 14:58 cait talljoy++ thx! 14:58 ashimema I have stats for numbers of bugs fixed at various points in cycles.. the general trend I've spotted is that bugs are getting reported later 14:58 cait we have some early adopters 14:58 talljoy do you have data on who is reporting those bugs ashimema ? 14:58 ashimema also.. the gap between being reported and being fixed varies allot 14:58 cait but tbh we sit it out pretty long too - preparation takes a while as well, as we have to write up Gemran resoruces etc. too 14:59 ashimema not in a particularly meaningful format yet no.. 14:59 ashimema would be happy to collaborate on picking out some stats.. 14:59 talljoy we have played with the idea of getting 'really early' adopters to help flush bugs. i.e. roll a 20.01 and get bugs fixed in the 20.05 14:59 talljoy that's just us internally 'spit-balling' 14:59 ashimema we certainly have two types of customer here.. those who want their new feature asap.. 14:59 talljoy <and paid for it too> 14:59 ashimema and those who want stability over functionality and want to wait 2 years 15:00 cait yeah, i think the might be the motivation to go on a new verson - there are features needed/wanted 15:00 cait I think there might be benefits of having a regular LTS, but also needs a maintainer 15:00 cait talljoy: are you doing 1 or 2 updates a year? 15:00 talljoy 2 15:01 cait :) 15:01 talljoy our goal is to make upgrades a 'non issue' for our libraries 15:01 talljoy not always successful, but we try! 15:01 ashimema so.. the best proposal I've spitballed here is to have two tracks.. a LTS which gets a feature update once every 18 months or something like that.. and is maintained with bugfixes only throughout it's life 15:01 ashimema and a continious integration track which is release monthly and contains bugfixes and new feature as soon as they're ready 15:01 cait hm 15:01 talljoy CI for the win! 15:02 cait wonder if there is some middle gruond to be found 15:02 ashimema CI + CD 15:02 cait between those 2 15:02 ashimema CD is what all the 'big boys' are moving too.. I fear if we don't offer it we will loose out. 15:02 talljoy stay a couple of tracks back but a couple ahead of LTS? 15:02 cait maybe longer support but a big one every year instead of 18 months 15:03 ashimema CI = Continious Integration (we do this with Jenkins).. CD = Continious Deployment (monthly releases would be close to this) 15:03 talljoy yearly does make a bit more sense from a library's perspective. "we upgrade every year in August" for example 15:03 cait i think biblibre and us target once a year for update, so that would be nice to maintain, monthly with translations and everything woudl be too much 15:03 talljoy We are moving towards CD as much as we can. 15:04 talljoy that's what the U.S. market is about now. 15:04 ashimema how do you do CD if you only upgrade once a year? 15:04 talljoy we do 2x a year with monthly point release upgrades 15:05 talljoy we are upgrading continually, but it is a logistical problem for us. 15:05 eythian CD is not monthly, CD is more like every commit gets deployed 15:05 talljoy right 15:05 ashimema yeah, it isn't easy 15:05 talljoy that's more what we're aiming for. 15:05 cait bywater is the biggest player right now - I think it makes sense, but for the smaller ones might be harder to keep that pace 15:05 talljoy i mean, aim high, right? 15:05 ashimema indeed.. CD is exactly what eythian said.. 15:05 cait especially if you don't have in-house devs for hotfixing 15:05 ashimema I don't think we're ready for that yet.. but I'd love to see it happen 15:05 talljoy true. 15:05 cait it woudl never work for translations 15:05 caroline_catlady + docs and translations 15:06 cait yep 15:06 talljoy cait i like your yearly LTS idea instead of 18 months 15:06 eythian (having monthly/nightly use-at-your-own-risk auto snapshot releases could be an easy approach too.) 15:06 ashimema but I don think monthly release could be possible 15:06 ashimema we already do such a scheme for rmaint 15:06 ashimema well.. we do have the nightly build bot which builds package nightly 15:06 ashimema so you 'can' do watch that 15:07 Joubu I don't think our codebase is robust enough to provide a (relatively) master-based stable release every month 15:07 Joubu Or I did not get what you are talking about 15:07 talljoy we are not yet brave enough to put our libraries on master. so the reality is that we are expecting a modified CI/CD pipeline 15:07 ashimema it may not be.. but shouldn't we be asking the question of "why isn't it" ;) 15:07 talljoy for us internally. We will adapt to what the community does. This is just input about what is going on in our heads 15:08 ashimema I believe if we set out a goal to get there, we could improve out practice over a few cycle to go from 6 monthly feature releases down to 3 monthly, then monthly perhaps 15:09 caroline_catlady we just went through the upgrades with our clients and while it was not nightmarish, there were still bugs in 19.05.04 15:09 ashimema it's just about getting better at spotting and fixing bugs quicker 15:09 talljoy yes. 15:09 kidclamp yeah, smaller bites, less bugs, found faster 15:09 caroline_catlady and the preparation is long too, I can't imagine doing this more often 15:09 talljoy that is what our educators say also! 15:09 ashimema I have an issue with code going in, then often not getting used in real life for nearly 18 months and then trying to remember what I was doing all that time ago to fix a bug in it is really hard 15:09 kidclamp we have been discussing that with trainers to figure out a different model 15:10 oleonard That's a good point ashimema 15:10 kellym yes @caroline_catlady, it would get a bit dicey! 15:10 talljoy ashimema, we also have that issue. along with devs that folks pay for that they don't see for 6-12 months 15:10 ashimema totally.. I'm a dev.... we deffo need to get opinions from users, trainers and inf people 15:10 ashimema yup 15:11 kellym but good question, how far in advance would release notes come prior to doing the upgrade ? 15:11 kidclamp for devs too I like the idea of not having a 6 month window of missing getting a dev in 15:11 ashimema well.. it sounds like we certianly have the apetite to consider alternatives at least 15:11 TGoat don't forget the RM's to whom this will all fall on 15:11 ashimema we just need to work out what those are 15:12 ashimema it doesn't really all fall on the RM.. 15:12 ashimema we still have a SO/QA process.. and releaseing is pretty streamlined already in reality 15:12 davidnind kellym: has ideas about release notes vs what's new 15:12 ashimema we could do better on the packaging front I think 15:12 ashimema translation and documentation need thought though.. 15:13 caroline_catlady release notes, what's new and what you have to change 15:13 ashimema but then.. perhaps they would also benefit from a smaller amount to do each month rather than a mamoth task once every 6 months 15:13 caroline_catlady like the fines reports for 19.05 15:13 davidnind kellym: release notes are continuous https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-release-notes 15:14 ashimema indeed kellym 15:15 cait please keep in mind that not all people are using Koha in English 15:15 cait we need to put more work in 15:15 caroline_catlady database changes are all fine and good, but they f up a bunch of stuff when we upgrade (sorry for the big words I just spent a whole day redoing circ rules for 20+ clients) 15:15 kellym yes, so would it be beneficial to produce a what’s new outside of a release notes doc? showing only features? 15:15 cait we also have things specific to our environment that need to be tested... we need an option for slower updates too 15:15 talljoy good point cait. bag mentioned this in our meeting yesterday as an important consideration 15:15 cait we need to make our own documentation etc. it's a big task for smaller teams 15:15 cait and we don#t have educators... we are all in one people 15:15 TGoat just thinking.. assuming that our developer numbers stay strong and we have a willing pool of RM's 15:16 wizzyrea I really think a feature flagging function in Koha would be great 15:16 ashimema experienced dev numbers aren't all that strong at the moment.. or rather volunteers to do the rmaint roles aren't at least 15:16 caroline_catlady I agree cait we are two who do tests and docs here and it's a lot 15:16 ashimema that's part of what braught me to this set of questions 15:16 davidnind kellym: would like to do that - what's new summary, details in documentation portal/manual 15:17 cait in theory we are 4... but we also do migrations /project work all the time 15:17 * wizzyrea whispers "feature flagging in the interface..." 15:17 caroline_catlady davidnind++ 15:17 kidclamp so I think this is good discussion, but maybe we need to think a bit and come back with a clearer idea of the issue we are solving 15:17 ashimema I've been slowly working on a changelog type approach davidnind kellym 15:17 wizzyrea like slaaack does with the little present 15:17 ashimema our release notes aren't all that great 15:17 kidclamp like collect thoughts on wiki and in the mailing list? 15:17 ashimema feature flagging is good 15:17 talljoy it does feel like we need a bit more clarification on the needs of community/libraries/dev before deciding on what some specifics are 15:18 cait we pick and translate from them, they are mostly useful for people like us i guess 15:18 cait we pick what our libraries use 15:18 cait not every library loves CD... it could also be a selling poit to offer different clearly defined routs 15:18 ashimema How about I try to summarise what we've said today on a wiki page and invite comment via the lists 15:18 cait not force people to do updates often 15:18 cait or not get bugs fixed/security fixes 15:19 ashimema this has served it's purpose.. it's got people thinking and talking about it :) 15:19 kellym yes @davidnind highlight and direct to more information. I love @wizzyrea idea- even an added note on the news tools could be useful. 15:19 davidnind balance between a cloud like service controlled by one vendor with continuous deployment vs multiple providers, supported versions and stability for clients/libraries 15:19 georgew I was late to the meeting and then I've had to jump in and out while dealing with some other issues, but I think libraries would definitely want some input on these release issues 15:19 wizzyrea ubuntu does this well, with LTS and "I like punishment" releases 15:19 cait kellym: translation issues :( 15:19 kellym ah yes! We did talk about that earlier! @cait 15:20 cait maybe solvable, but to keep in mind 15:20 ashimema wizzyrea.. it's the Ubuntu LTS + Punishment model I'm really trying to suggest ;) 15:20 georgew koha-US is having a meeting today and I'll bring this issue up and see if I can get some library peopel to read the minutes so they know what's going on 15:20 talljoy ashimema i would like a synopsis and some suggested steps forward. 15:20 wizzyrea I figured :) 15:20 ashimema ok 15:20 oleonard [off] georgew I don't see the meeting on the calendar 15:21 ashimema #action ashimema will summarise the release cycle discussion on a wiki page and invite people to contribute/comment via as many comms methods as he can muster. 15:22 talljoy ashimema++ 15:22 kellym @ashimema++ 15:22 huginn kellym: downloading the Perl source 15:22 ashimema thanks everyone.. a really good discussion I feel 15:22 ashimema right.. last topic then 15:22 ashimema #topic Time of next meeting 15:23 ashimema the later time but same date next month? 15:23 ashimema does the 8th work for people? 15:23 davidnind +1 15:23 talljoy yes 15:23 talljoy +1 15:23 oleonard +1 15:24 caroline_catlady ok 15:24 cait +1 15:24 ashimema davidnind.. remind me what time works well for NZ 15:25 davidnind daytime..:) 15:25 ashimema 20:00 UTC? 15:25 ashimema that's 09::00 Wellington and 15:00 New York 15:26 * ashimema isn't sure why he picked new york.. america spans too many time zones ;) 15:26 davidnind 20:00 (9 am is good), but not sure how ot suits others 15:26 caroline_catlady 20 UTC is good for east coast 15:26 oleonard '15:00 Athens, OH' is how most Americans refer to it I think 15:27 ashimema #info Next meeting: 8 January 2020, 20 UTC 15:27 ashimema brill.. we have a winner :) 15:27 ashimema #endmeeting 15:27 huginn Meeting ended Wed Dec 11 15:27:17 2019 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 15:27 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/general_irc_meeting_11_december_2019.2019-12-11-14.00.html 15:27 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/general_irc_meeting_11_december_2019.2019-12-11-14.00.txt 15:27 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/general_irc_meeting_11_december_2019.2019-12-11-14.00.log.html 15:27 ashimema thanks everyone, good meeting, lots discussed 15:27 caroline_catlady ashimema++ for bringin up controversial topics :) 15:27 davidnind ashimema++ 15:28 cait ashimema++ 15:29 ashimema hehe.. always a pleasure 15:29 ashimema hopefully people know by now I generally just want opinions and to see the community flourish.. so I get away with asking hard questions :) 15:29 oleonard Okay let's be honest: Someone shook the Slack tree to get all the ByWater folks to fall out, right? 15:30 ashimema they might have done ;) 15:35 * kidclamp narrows eyes at oleonard 15:36 oleonard kidclamp: Just bolstering ashimema's argument for a sexier chat system :D 15:38 ashimema hehe 15:39 * eythian would like to discourage forcing people to use a proprietary system like slack in order to work on a free software project. 15:39 * talljoy whistles innocently 15:40 caroline_catlady then make the open options sexier 15:40 ashimema rocket chat is allot sexier than irc ;) 15:40 ashimema and not far behind slack in my opinion 15:40 eythian IRC is as nice as you want it to be. 15:40 ashimema and.. it federates 15:40 caroline_catlady It looks like it, but I've never used it 15:41 caroline_catlady I've yet to find a sexy irc client 15:41 ashimema so each of the support companies could host their own for internal chat and still connect to each other and the community via the same platform and client. 15:41 eythian I have a nice GUI client that I can be connected from my phone, multiple computers, etc all at once and catches messages when I'm away, shows previews of URLs on hover, etc etc. 15:41 davidnind it's nice - have used occassioanly 15:42 eythian https://imgur.com/a/uKFKe11 looks like this 15:43 caroline_catlady that's what mine looks like too, but I don't think that's pretty or easy to read 15:43 oleonard eythian: Everyone who's never used IRC just got a chill down their spine from that screenshot 15:43 eythian then you change the font if you want to 15:43 kidclamp there are nice irc clients, but having one app/interface and not asking people to choose or customise can make it easier to get started 15:44 ashimema kidclamp++ 15:44 ashimema totally 15:44 * kidclamp does like Quassel 15:44 eythian oleonard: well if it's developer chat, how do they deal with code :) 15:44 kidclamp but it's not just meant to be developer chat 15:44 ashimema the target audience isn't us.. it's the people who aren't here ;) 15:44 eythian fair 15:44 * eythian doesn't have much of a say here, just opinions, btw :) 15:44 ashimema but also we win too in my opinion.. for things like code snippets etc. 15:45 * ashimema likes opinions :) 15:45 eythian and one strong opinion is that proprietary is bad for free software and will alienate many people. But there are options that aren't that too. 15:46 eythian and for those who it doesn't alienate, perhaps they should reconsider ;) 15:46 davidnind ashimema:Dave Lane has some useful blog posts https://tech.oeru.org/taxonomy/term/18 15:46 davidnind Why Slack is better, and why open communities shouldn't use it https://davelane.nz/why-slack-better-and-why-open-communities-shouldnt-use-it 15:47 eythian davidnind: good link, thanks 15:48 oleonard I've added a big follow-up on Bug 22880 and I think it's pretty robust now. Please test! I'd love to get all similar system preferences migrated in the next release if possible 15:48 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22880 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Convert opacheader system preference to news block 15:49 eythian see also https://xkcd.com/1782/ 15:50 caroline_catlady lol! 16:07 tcohen smuxi++ 16:08 tcohen eythian: LOL screen+irssi to tmux+weechat 16:08 tcohen hahaha 16:11 eythian holy crap, it's gitter.im. I had always read it as glitter.im. 16:13 oleonard What we need is a chat system with *more* glitter. 16:13 caroline_catlady glitter++ 16:19 reiveune bye 17:42 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #3: SUCCESS in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/3/ 17:45 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #4: STILL UNSTABLE in 44 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D9/4/ 17:48 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #4: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U18/4/ 17:53 cait talljoy++ :) 17:56 talljoy pushing them slowly cait. trying to not screw it up. :D 18:00 ashimema talljoy++ 18:00 talljoy ashimema - i'm not sure what to do with the 'still unstable' message on jenkins 18:00 ashimema Lol.. my phone really wanted to correct that to Tallboy 18:00 ashimema Haha 18:00 talljoy very much out of my wheelhouse! 18:01 ashimema I'll take a look tonight/tomorrow morning and give you a hand.. 18:01 Joubu talljoy: bug 24199 will fix the shib test 18:01 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=24199 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to master , t/Auth_with_shibboleth.t is failing randomly 18:02 Joubu no idea what's happenning with the api ones 18:02 ashimema Basically, the process is to look at Jenkins and see which tests it's unhappy about and either fix then, ask someone nice to fix them.. or in a mean case threaten to revert something if they're not fixed.. 18:02 ashimema It never really comes to that though.. lots of nice people will help fix them if you can't I find 18:03 tcohen api tests failing 18:03 tcohen ? 18:03 vfernandes which ElasticSearch version we should use with 19.11? 18:03 ashimema Haha.. Joubu is one of those aforementioned nice people 18:03 tcohen 5.x, or 6 with bugs 18:03 ashimema Either.. both should work 18:03 tcohen ashimema: he wouldn't touch api tests 18:04 Joubu tcohen: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U18/lastCompletedBuild/consoleFull on U18 only it seems 18:04 ashimema You and I count as nice people there tcohen 18:04 tcohen hahaha 18:04 ashimema I just haven't managed to find a moment to look yet myself 18:05 tcohen Joubu: yes, thanks. Will try to figure how to test is without breaking my dev env which is really tweaked now 18:05 Joubu I don't have U18 either right now. I planned to take a look today but forgot 18:06 tcohen I will use a different name and test 18:07 tcohen KOHA_IMAGE=master-bionic docker-compose -p koha_bionic up 18:07 Joubu I have disk space issues... cannot pull another image... 18:08 tcohen docker system prune -a 18:08 tcohen will probably surprise you hehe 18:09 Joubu what I am doing, but cannot shut it down for now 18:10 tcohen talljoy: I'm looking at the API failures on Ubuntu 18 18:18 talljoy thanks tcohen 18:56 oleonard Hi kathryn 19:28 oleonard See y'all later. Test Bug 22880! 19:28 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22880 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Convert opacheader system preference to news block 19:44 caroline_catlady anyone know why I would get the following message when trying to get a mana token? "An error occurred, mana server returned: URL must be absolute" 19:44 cait did you include http:// etc in your url for mana? 19:44 cait it souns like it thinks it has a relative url 19:45 caroline_catlady I don't know, I just filled in the name and email fields 19:45 caroline_catlady where do I set up the url? 19:45 cait check your mana prefs maybe? 19:45 cait hmm 19:46 cait i tihnk the mana pref is set in the koha-conf 19:46 caroline_catlady I searched for mana in koha-conf and I didn't find anythng 19:46 cait there should be... let me see 19:47 caroline_catlady mayne I have to add it manually? 19:47 cait i have a mana_config at the bottom 19:47 cait <mana_config>https://mana.koha-community.org</mana_config> 19:48 caroline_catlady before </config>? 19:48 cait inside yep 19:48 cait so before 19:48 caroline_catlady ok I will try that 19:49 caroline_catlady nope, still getting the same error 19:50 caroline_catlady ah the one on my test environment is mana-kb.koha... 19:50 caroline_catlady will try that 19:50 cait hm maybe 19:50 cait i had mana-test 19:50 cait but assumed mana would be the real one 19:52 caroline_catlady -_- still not working... 19:53 cait did you do a reastart_all? 19:53 caroline_catlady no? 19:53 wahanui no is that a thing? I was just thinking about how I like all kinds of chips and now I find out that there is a licorice flavor! 19:53 caroline_catlady licorice chips! 19:53 cait i think a change to koha-conf might not take effect without apache restart 19:53 caroline_catlady ah! 19:53 cait caroline_catlady: andreas sent us some... they were... interesting 19:54 caroline_catlady yeah, I'm not a fan of licorice so I don't think I would even try 19:54 caroline_catlady not a fan of fennel either... tastes like licorice 19:56 cait true, i like both :) and ouzo 19:58 caroline_catlady ah it worked! 19:59 caroline_catlady Thank you! 19:59 caroline_catlady cait++ 19:59 cait great :) 20:03 caroline_catlady for future reference, the url is https://mana-kb.koha-community.org 21:14 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D9 build #5: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D9/5/ 21:16 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_D8 build #4: UNSTABLE in 36 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_D8/4/ 21:26 koha-jenkins Project Koha_19.11_U18 build #5: STILL UNSTABLE in 41 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_19.11_U18/5/