Time  Nick             Message
06:32 calire           morning #koha
06:56 marcelr          hi #koha
07:15 nlegrand         boker tov
07:38 reiveune         hello
07:38 fridolin         hi
07:38 wahanui          privet, fridolin
07:45 * magnuse        waves
08:00 alex_a           Bonjour
08:30 magnuse          hm, "sudo apt-cache policy koha-common" says i just upgraded to 19.05.06, but "About Koha" says 19.05.05?
08:48 marcelr          cache ?
09:14 ashimema         er.. there is not 19.05.06
09:15 ashimema         sounds like a mistake somewhere..
09:15 * ashimema       opens email and see's how much he's missed whilst he's been in meetings the past couple of days :(
09:44 cait             not checking email at all? that sounds like productive meetings :)
09:53 ashimema         yeah, not bad :)
10:33 cait             how are the emails?
10:35 andreashm        Oh no! We have found duplicate fines in the database. Instead of continuing to add fine updates, sometimes a new fine is instead created. Say a fine was accruing, with 250 SEK on Tuesday. Instead of increasing it to 260 the next day, another (new) fine with 260 is added the same day.
10:35 andreashm        We have now turned of fines while we investigate.
10:35 cait             ouch
10:35 cait             no renewals in between... right?
10:36 cait             which version?
10:36 wahanui          which version is thiis?
10:36 andreashm        Seems related both to the automatic renewals cronjob, and wrong calculations done on return (but we have CalculateFinesOnReturn set to Don't)
10:36 andreashm        18.11.04
10:37 cait             hm are you using book drop or so?
10:37 andreashm        I haven't seen anything related in Bugzilla (although some things close, but not quite the same). But sounds a bit like https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23454
10:37 huginn           Bug 23454: major, P5 - low, ---, hemantharao.kr, NEW , Fine for the previous overdue may get overwritten by the next one
10:38 andreashm        cait: no, not using book drop mode.
10:40 andreashm        We have over 400 casesof faulty duplicate fines added, this year. =(
10:41 cait             how do you knwo they are faulty... same issue_id and created one day after last incrmeent of the other fine?
10:45 andreashm        cait: yes.
10:45 cait             hm
10:45 cait             that's... not good
10:47 andreashm        not at all
10:48 andreashm        But it doesn't happen all the time. Making it hard to replicate the issue
10:50 andreashm        The major thing seem to be why the automatic renewals sometimes adds a new fine. But I also don't understand why fees are sometimes calculated on return (ignoring that syspref). Returns are mostly Lost items that are problematic. (they are the reason we started looking into this)
10:50 cait             oh
10:50 cait             if there was a renew happening... it would make the fine start over
10:51 cait             can you see the last renewed for those?
11:04 andreashm        renews make the fine start over?
11:06 andreashm        will look if they have been renewed then. but previously, it seems not. will look if holds added/deleted is involved.
11:09 andreashm        cait: ^^
11:11 cait             andreashm: i think so
11:11 cait             because then a new 'fine process starts'
11:11 cait             you renew... get a new due date... it goes overdue again, it starts again
11:11 cait             if you still have old fines from last time... your bad
11:12 cait             if it's something like that... it woudl not be really doubled
11:12 cait             the old one would no longer accrue, onle the new entry... and one would be F and the other FU
11:13 andreashm        cait: ah, like so. But no, these change from one day to the next, during the same "cycle".
11:14 andreashm        we have had some occurances like you describe, but some others obviously faulty
11:14 cait             i was wondering... sometimes a recalculated due date could be the same date as before
11:14 andreashm        hmmmm
11:14 cait             in theory.. if that could be it - like it's not really 'renewed' into the future
11:14 cait             that's why checking the logs for  a renewal happening might be ineresting to rule out/confirm
11:15 cait             just trying to think what could cause this... we are about to go to 18.11 and meh
11:15 cait             don't want this :)
11:15 andreashm        cait: thanks, I'll look more at it!
11:20 andreashm        cait: looking more at the list, it seems most of the nightly runs happened before upgrading to 18.11. And the other problem (returns being calculated for Lost book being returned), appears mostly after upgrade. Interesting!
11:21 cait             there are quite a few bugs in the lost area reported
11:21 cait             since we don't use that heavily i haven't dug deeper
11:22 cait             bug 22877 for example
11:22 huginn           Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=22877 major, P5 - low, ---, martin.renvoize, RESOLVED FIXED, Returning a lost item not marked as returned can generate additional overdue fines
11:23 cait             sorry for making noise on the bug... chose a wrong status and now have towork through some more to get back :(
11:27 andreashm        cait: oh! that looks very much like our problem!
11:29 andreashm        cait++
11:56 andreashm        This is why I love the Koha community! =)
11:57 andreashm        ashimema++ too!
12:11 kidclamp         joubu++
12:18 andreashm        kidclamp++
12:18 kidclamp         andreashm++
12:18 kidclamp         :-)
12:20 andreashm        ;Karma-fest!
12:21 kidclamp         ashimema++
12:21 kidclamp         cait++
12:21 * kidclamp       loooks and realizes I could go on for quite a while
12:21 kidclamp         koha++
12:51 magnuse          allyall++
13:03 magnuse          ashimema: the main ill requests table has a lot of columns now, but it is not self evident what data in the db corresponds to what column. do you think you or Andrew could do a quick wiki page with the mappings?
13:07 magnuse          or point me to some place where the mapping is explicit?
13:16 cait             you could also do it in kohastructure.sql
13:16 cait             as scomments
13:16 cait             so it shows up on schema
13:18 magnuse          the thing is the illrequestattributes, where you have type=x, value=y
13:18 magnuse          so you would have to document a lot of different types
13:19 ashimema         oh.. sorry.. was having lunch
13:20 magnuse          np
13:20 cait             ah ok
13:21 ashimema         I'll ask andrew what he can do
13:21 cait             ype, my suggestion won't work then
13:21 magnuse          awesome!
13:21 ashimema         the requestattributes table is very much like authorized values..
13:21 magnuse          yeah
13:21 ashimema         as in.. it can kinda contain whatever you fancy and actas as it's own DB
13:21 ashimema         which is great and terrible at the same time
13:23 magnuse          and gets real interesting when you have to display some subset of data from several schemes in one table...
13:23 magnuse          at least it's flexible :-)
13:25 ashimema         probably what you want is less about the db schema and more about the internal api that's built atop it.
13:29 magnuse          yeah, true
13:36 ashimema         think he must be at lunch.. struggling to raise him
13:37 magnuse          no hurry!
13:37 ashimema         still enjoying rocket.chat magnuse?
13:39 magnuse          yes indeed
13:39 ashimema         do you use the irc bridge stuff at all?
13:39 magnuse          nope
13:40 magnuse          and so far i have only used it with a couple users, so dunno how it behaves at scale
13:40 magnuse          but there is very little i have to complain about
13:41 ashimema         I'm thinking of suggesting we trial it at a community level
13:41 magnuse          pertty much the only thing is that if someone replies in a thread, that reply is also shown in the main discussion. i *think* it is possible to quickfix that with some custom css, but i have not been able to figure that out
13:41 ashimema         we were talking about getting more of our customers interacting in the community.. but IRC is still seen as a big barrier
13:42 ashimema         threads are wierd in slack too
13:42 ashimema         I don't like them at all
13:42 magnuse          yeah, i can kinda see why that would put some people off
13:43 ashimema         and even us geeks who are comfortable in IRC...
13:43 ashimema         I don't think we'd mind a shift personally..
13:44 * ashimema       uses Slack allot to talk internally at ptfs-e.. but also uses it allot to talk to tcohen, kidclamp, khall etc etc..
13:44 ashimema         it's just easy
13:44 ashimema         irc have never been quiet to immediately easy for me
13:44 * khall          is in favor of a Koha slack channel ;)
13:45 ashimema         I don't think i could sell slack to the wider koha community ;)
13:45 ashimema         it's too closed and too expensive
13:45 ashimema         you helps bywater choose slack didn't you khall
13:46 ashimema         why slack over rocket.chat or mattermost?
13:46 magnuse          (you can turn threads off in rocket)
13:49 * andreashm      likes Slack to. And the Swedish user group has koha.slack.com =)
13:49 andreashm        but mattermost och rocket.chat would be better for the international community yes.
13:49 andreashm        IRC is a big barrier
13:50 * andreashm      should try rocket.chat. Still haven't. Tried Mattermost though.
13:50 magnuse          i can testify to the swedish community being very active on slack :-)
13:50 ashimema         yeah.. i've already done the mattermost vs rocket.chat comparision and decided rocket.chat would be a better fit
13:50 ashimema         I don't think we should go slack.. and think we'd end up with a fair bit of backlash if some of us suggested that
13:50 ashimema         maybe I'm incorrect
13:51 Dyrcona          It bugs me when F/OSS projects use proprietary software for communications.
13:51 andreashm        .... and now I now why. Self install or pay
13:52 ashimema         there's a demo rocket.chat out there you can play with.. but no-one really on it
13:56 Dyrcona          Yeah, that model bothers me: a free "community" version or pay for more features. It has become increasingly common lately. But, I'm not really in the Koha community, so feel free to ignore me. :)
13:57 andreashm        ashimema: thanks. I got invited to magnuse's one, so I can test there. =)
13:58 caroline_catlady good morning!
13:58 magnuse          kia ora caroline_catlady
14:04 andreashm        hey caroline_catlady
14:04 wahanui          somebody said caroline_catlady was to blame for me thinking about icecream all day long!
14:04 caroline_catlady lol!!
14:04 andreashm        now I'm thinking of icecream! damn wahanui! =)
14:04 caroline_catlady I wonder who said that....
14:05 * magnuse        thinks about pizza
14:17 cait             hm someon eever tried to use bitwise operators in a report? << crashes because koha thinks it#s a placeholder thingy
14:18 cait             flags & (1 << 1)
14:19 kidclamp         ashimema++
14:19 kidclamp         1
14:19 kidclamp         ashimema++
14:19 kidclamp         ashimema++
14:20 * cait           must have missed somehting
14:20 * kidclamp       bullied martin and he gave in - I am rewarding that
14:20 kidclamp         :-p
14:22 ashimema         hehe
15:09 Nemo_bis         Over 50 % market share in public libraries, I had no idea. Scary. https://sr.ithaka.org/blog/what-are-the-larger-implications-of-ex-libris-buying-innovative/
15:27 corilynn         have you used OCLC's WorldShare? It's TERRIBLE!
15:28 cait             corilynn: did you?
15:28 cait             never met someone who really used it - there is only 1 installation i think in germany
15:29 cait             [off] Innovative's ILSs are not on the market here
15:29 cait             We saw a presentation a while ago
15:32 corilynn         I had to for a customer, briefly. I didn't like it
15:33 corilynn         I'm just pleased that I got the worldcat apis working so I didn't have to login 50 times a day to get one number
15:37 cait             makes sense, you mostly did cataloguing?
15:39 corilynn         I mostly *do* cataloging
16:36 reiveune         bye
16:41 liliputech_asu   caturday?
16:41 AnnaBoten        CATURDAY! \o/
16:41 liliputech_asu   yey
16:42 liliputech_asu   have a nice one :)
23:12 Marie-Luce       have a lovely weekend all