Time  Nick           Message
04:04 KeithS         I am looking for guidance on updating the authorities file based on biblio data. In transition from another system that did not use authorities, I imported the biblio data into Koha (17.11). Now when I want to edit the subject tracings of a manually imported biblio, it doesn't allow me to edit. I assume this is because the new subject tracing is not in the Authorities. Are there any shortcuts on this?
07:03 alex_a         Bonjour
07:03 wahanui        hello, alex_a
07:10 andreashm      salut
07:11 cait           good morning #koha!
07:11 andreashm      hey cait
07:11 andreashm      upgrade to 18.11 completed. yay!
07:11 liliputech_asu morning :)
07:12 cait           andreashm: let me know how it goes!
07:12 cait           but great to hear :)
07:13 andreashm      it went well. had some issues with automatic renewals and fines as cronjobs didn't run in the correct order when we started them again. but that was our fault, we should schedule them better.
07:14 andreashm      cait: ^
07:16 * magnuse      waves
07:16 cait           ah yeah... i had some merge error there too in the past :)
07:16 cait           nothing bad tho, but good to keep an eye on the files
07:20 andreashm      most things we've had issues with is our own fault basically. Koha has been behaving well. =)
07:20 andreashm      hi magnuse
07:20 koha-jenkins   Project Koha_Master_D8 build #363: STILL UNSTABLE in 42 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D8/363/
07:22 cait           andreashm: :)
07:25 huginn`        News from kohagit: Bug 14570: (RM follow-up) Add class relatinship to BorrowerRelationship <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=12f583dd2c580cad046605531c79c1a90bf91436>
07:36 magnuse        andreashm: ansible all the things! ;-)
07:44 cait           ansible++ :)
07:58 koha-jenkins   Yippee, build fixed!
07:58 wahanui        Congratulations!
07:58 koha-jenkins   Project Koha_Master_D9 build #854: FIXED in 29 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D9/854/
08:00 magnuse        woohoo!
08:04 koha-jenkins   Yippee, build fixed!
08:04 wahanui        Congratulations!
08:05 koha-jenkins   Project Koha_Master_U18 build #339: FIXED in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_U18/339/
08:11 ashimema       woop, woop
08:11 koha-jenkins   Project Koha_Master_D8 build #364: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D8/364/
08:11 ashimema       dang.. typo in my own commit message..
08:11 ashimema       oops
08:55 koha-jenkins   Project Koha_Master_D8 build #365: STILL UNSTABLE in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D8/365/
09:05 KeithS         What is the apt-get command to install koha 17.11. I am migrating servers and need to install the older version before updating. I assume apt-get install koka-core will install the latest version.
09:08 cait           KeithS: I think you woudl have to go differently as the 17.11 is no longer maintained
09:09 cait           may i ask why you want to install the old version first?
09:10 cait           you can load your db into a newer version to trigger an update (I asusme you can install older manually, but that might be a way to avoid that)
09:11 cait           https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Debian here is some information about the setup - you can see ther eis no codename for 17.11 anymore
09:12 cait           or maybe 17.11 woudl still work - does someone else know?
09:12 ashimema       anyone got any ideas for new features or enhancements that would 'improve social mobility' ?
09:12 KeithS         @cait, so if I install latest version (19.x), I can I do a restore from a koha backup made on a version 17.11?
09:12 huginn`        KeithS: I suck
09:12 ashimema       wierd tender question.. how will your product/company improve the social mobility of the local area..
09:13 cait           KeithS: yes
09:13 cait           the application detects the mismatch between the versoin in the db and the koha version and starts an update process
09:15 cait           ashimema: what is social mobility?
09:15 KeithS         Just for my personal clarity: (1) run koha-backups on existing server (2) install latest version on new server (3) copy gz files to new server (4) run koha-restore (5) Koha updates db
09:16 ashimema       ermm..
09:16 cait           ashimema: i am looking it up right now :P
09:16 cait           KeithS: i think in theory yes - haven't used the back up tools myself yet
09:16 cait           hm
09:16 ashimema       erm.. ways to help people help themselves..
09:16 cait           maybe you want to do a dump instead
09:16 ashimema       moving up the social/class ladder
09:16 cait           you will need to create the db with the dump
09:17 cait           not load into an existing one
09:17 ashimema       loosely relates to accessability too
09:17 KeithS         mysqldump?
09:17 cait           not sure what the restore does... ashimema do you know?
09:17 cait           KeithS: wondering if the backups /restore contain just the data or also the statements to create the tables
09:17 cait           you don't want to load data into a 19.05 db - you want your 17.11 db as it is now so the update works smootly
09:18 ashimema       afraid we don't use the backup tools either.. we just mysqldump
09:18 cait           yeah it's what i have used too
09:18 cait           KeithS: mysqldump is easy to use -if you look it up i'd try that
09:18 KeithS         SO... mysqldump on existing server, then rebuild on new system and allow new system to read and update it
09:18 cait           if you look at the files, there should be "create table" statements in it
09:19 cait           yes
09:19 cait           and don't run the web installer on your new server
09:19 cait           load the db
09:19 KeithS         After loading then run the web installer?
09:19 cait           it shoudl then trigger that yep
09:19 KeithS         THANKS LOADS!
09:19 cait           but you don#t want it to create a 19.05 db first
09:20 cait           as you are testing first (i hope) things should work out :)
09:21 cait           ashimema: i've looked up social mobility and still have no clue...
09:22 ashimema       did my description help at all cait ?
09:23 cait           which description?
09:24 ashimema       social mobility: the upward movement of population through the class system
09:24 cait           that didn't come through
09:25 ashimema       so in this context really it's about finding ways to help people help themselves to better themselves..
09:25 cait           ah ok... not the same wording
09:25 ashimema       sorta relates to accessability too
09:25 cait           maybe somethign about company policy for personal development?
09:25 cait           accessibility might be good too yes
09:25 ashimema       general 'how will your product help make the area a better place to live'
09:25 cait           internships?
09:25 cait           as you are pretty spread out it's hard to apply i guess
09:26 ashimema       problem is.. it all has the caveat of it has to help their local population.. and none of us are based there..
09:26 ashimema       indeed
09:28 ashimema       hense I was looking for new features or improvements to koha we could code do probono that would help the whole community in this sort of respect but could also be sold as great locally
09:28 ashimema       accessability seems a good one..
09:28 ashimema       tracking of mobile libraries on a map perhaps
09:28 ashimema       those sorts of things..
09:30 eythian        ashimema: it should totally be easy to waffle on about how contributions to free software library systems go towards improving literacy of people in disadvantaged areas etc.
09:30 ashimema       Indeed.. except they add the local factor again..
09:34 eythian        "this then improves the availability of freely distributable, modifiable, and customisable library systems for local organisations such as community centres and schools (etc.)"
09:34 ashimema       nice
09:36 cait           eythian++
10:10 calire         anyone else got issues accessing bugs.koha-community.org?
10:35 calire         seems to be back, but slow
10:46 eythian        it's looking slow/not responding from here
10:47 eythian        yep, not responding
10:59 magnuse        bit slow, but works for me
11:34 oleonard       Hi #koha
11:44 oleonard       ashimema around?
11:46 ashimema       hi
11:46 wahanui        hello, ashimema
11:47 oleonard       ashimema: I'm getting an error when running the db update for Bug 14570
11:47 huginn`        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14570 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to master , Make it possible to add multiple guarantors to a record
11:47 ashimema       poop
11:48 ashimema       what's the error.. I thought I'd tested it pretty well with all sorts of wierd data issues
11:48 ashimema       I must have missed a case
11:49 oleonard       http://paste.koha-community.org/8450
11:50 oleonard       it is not uncommon for me to have updatedatabase errors because I have crufty data
11:51 cait           which makes you a great tester
11:57 oleonard       This did not help me get that job as gourmet chocolate tester
11:57 ashimema       lol
11:57 cait           :)
11:57 ashimema       that's a really wierd error
11:58 ashimema       `duplicate key on write or update`.. when creating the table in the first palce
11:58 ashimema       * `duplicate key on write or update`.. when creating the table in the first place
11:58 ashimema       did you test this patch before.. does your db already have the table?
11:59 ashimema       oh.. no.. no it cant have as the next line populating the table also fails because the table doens't exist yet!
11:59 ashimema       wow
12:39 oleonard       Hi wizzyrea
13:10 andreashm      oleonard: that looks kind of like the errors we where getting because of utf8mb4 and duplicates on foreign keys. When running updatedatabase.pl the tablespace got messed up and we had tables that both existed and didn't.
13:10 andreashm      I really need to write down that bug
13:10 cait           that sounds awful
13:11 ashimema       is josef_moravec still lurking.. not seen him around in ages
13:11 andreashm      josef had seen similar
13:11 andreashm      cait: yes, it was
13:12 andreashm      it delayed us upgrading from june to august
13:12 ashimema       haha.. that may have well been what made me just think of him
13:12 andreashm      https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47119794/mysql-mariadb-unable-to-handle-unique-keys-with-when-using-utf8mb4
13:12 ashimema       a vague recollection he had mentioned something similar
13:12 * cait         realized she shoudl update translatoins
13:12 * andreashm    is not a fan of the choice to have that collation as default
13:12 cait           well... translate actually, they have been updated
13:13 ashimema       hmm.. we've had it as default for years longer than community have here..
13:13 ashimema       it's the 'safest' to ensure utf8 compatability for all
13:13 andreashm      ashimema: maybe not so many customers that have weird diacritics/different letters?
13:14 andreashm      yes, but utf8mb4_bin would have been better from what I understand
13:14 ashimema       mm.. perhaps..
13:14 * ashimema     can't remember the difference..
13:14 andreashm      ashimema: yes, good for korean, japanese etc., bad for nordic countries and eastern europe.
13:14 * ashimema     also can't remember if it was around when we first moved to utf8mb4
13:15 ashimema       bad for nordic?
13:15 andreashm      ashimema: _bin seems to make a difference for diacritics and case
13:15 ashimema       in what way?
13:15 andreashm      The letters O and Ö are both treated as O
13:15 * ashimema     is more than happy for a bug to be submitted to suggest such a change..
13:15 andreashm      This creates duplicates. Especially bad in foreign keys (for us, mostly user.id)
13:15 ashimema       though as you've shown earlier.. such a change for upgrades is just painful
13:16 andreashm      Yeah, don't know the best way around this.
13:16 ashimema       any chance you could write that up.. it does sound like something I'd like to pursue
13:16 ashimema       hugs :)
13:16 * ashimema     takes dog for a quick walk whilst he ponders
13:16 andreashm      But I should start with writing that bug. It's high on my todo list (unfortunately, so are a lot of other things)
13:18 andreashm      But I'll try to add a bug for that later today (tonight)
13:33 ashimema       Hmm, I think I remember some of the reasoning behind not using _bin now.. it was to do with not wanting to require exact character (including accents) for searching or something
13:33 ashimema       Needs thought
13:46 tcohen         morning all
13:47 cait           bug 23484 ouch
13:47 huginn`        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23484 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Holds to pull (pendingreserves.pl) uses removed default_branch_item_rules table
13:47 cait           morning tcohen
14:20 cait           tcohen: can you please have a loo at 15497?
14:21 cait           I think it depens on bug 23281, correct? (I've added it, but want to make sure)
14:21 huginn`        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23281 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to master , Add Koha::Objects::Limit::Library
14:22 oleonard       ashimema: I was afk for a while... Does your finding suggest a fix I can do on my end?
14:22 tcohen         it doesn't
14:22 tcohen         ^^ cait
14:23 tcohen         Koha::Object::Limit::Library <> Koha::ObjectS::Limit::Library
14:23 ashimema       I couldn't work it out oleonard :(
14:52 Nemo_bis       There's a Koha discussion room now at Skövde
15:22 cait           tcohen: ok?
15:22 cait           can you explain?
15:22 cait           i mean why we need both...
15:22 cait           in this case (I know we need both)
15:23 cait           hm or maybe not... heh, it's confusing, but might be not good right now to get more confsued
15:33 * Nemo_bis     updated https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koha_(software)#Current_status
17:11 tcohen         @later tell cait those classes are used to add superpowers to Koha::Object(s)-based classes. Specifically, Koha::Object::Limits::Library adds a Koha::Object based class the ability to define library constraints to the object (i.e. it adds methods so those limits can be added). Then Koha::Objects::Limits::Library adds plural classes a new method: search_with_library_limits that does what we would expect from it, perform a regular search on
17:11 tcohen         the table, but crafting the query so the (added) library_id parameter is used to filter the results based on the configured limits
17:11 huginn`        tcohen: The operation succeeded.
17:29 phasefx_       hi guys, if a bug fix broke something, do you report a new bug or re-open the bug associated with the commit that broke things?
17:32 oleonard       A new bug, with the old bug as a dependency
18:26 kidclamp       oleonard: looking from mobile, yes it makes much more sense
18:26 kidclamp       I still think the plus minus would help
18:27 kidclamp       on a browser search it is confusing, clicking to hide really isn't helpful when not no mobile
18:27 oleonard       It probably shouldn't do anything at all if the layout isn't narrow
18:27 oleonard       The "refine" link I mean
18:28 kidclamp       if it could not be a link that would be ideal on wide display
18:54 greenjimll     Dev meeting in five minutes or so?
18:55 oleonard       https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?p0=1440&iso=20190821T19&msg=Koha%20Developers%20IRC%20Meeting
18:58 oleonard       kidclamp: Working on it. More tomorrow.
19:03 kidclamp       dev meeting?
19:03 greenjimll     Yep.
19:04 kidclamp       #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 21 August 2019
19:04 huginn`        Meeting started Wed Aug 21 19:04:22 2019 UTC.  The chair is kidclamp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:04 huginn`        Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
19:04 huginn`        The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_21_august_2019'
19:04 kidclamp       #topic Introductions
19:04 kidclamp       #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
19:04 greenjimll     #info Jon Knight, Loughborough University
19:04 kidclamp       #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_21_August_2019 Agenda
19:05 davidnind      #info David Nind, New Zealand
19:06 kidclamp       sparse crowd
19:07 kidclamp       and a blank agenda
19:07 greenjimll     "Select" I like to think.
19:07 wizzyrea       #info Liz Rea
19:07 kidclamp       I will sugest waiting a few and skipping if no new comers?
19:08 kidclamp       #chair wizzyrea
19:08 huginn`        Current chairs: kidclamp wizzyrea
19:08 davidnind      sounds good to me!
19:08 greenjimll     Fine. Only thing I want to talk about was kohadevbox resizing under AOB.
19:08 wizzyrea       You are CHEEKY
19:08 kidclamp       AOB?
19:08 greenjimll     Any Other Business
19:09 kidclamp       we can all still disucsss :-)
19:09 kidclamp       even if not meeting
19:09 greenjimll     Er, or "general discussion" according the agenda. :-)
19:11 wizzyrea       so what about the devbox question?
19:12 wizzyrea       no this isn't enough people to have a meeting I reckon
19:12 kidclamp       #infoo Meeting tabled due ot low attendance
19:12 kidclamp       #info Meeting tabled due ot low attendance
19:12 wizzyrea       kidclamp++
19:12 davidnind      agree!
19:12 kidclamp       #topic Set time of next meeting
19:13 kidclamp       September 4? 13 UTC?
19:13 greenjimll     Well, I have repeatedly broken kohadevbox's by running out of disc space whilst doing "git pull" to update them. I've started to work on a Perl script to resize the VM, but wonder if others had same problem.
19:13 wizzyrea       right
19:13 wizzyrea       yes
19:13 wizzyrea       my way round it is to use SYNC_REPO
19:13 wizzyrea       don't keep the repo inside the devbox
19:14 wizzyrea       bonus you don't lose anything when you inevitably destroy your vagrant box for one reason or another
19:14 davidnind      kidclamp++
19:14 greenjimll     Ah, right. Is that recommended in the docs? Must have missed it.
19:14 wizzyrea       I don't know if it's recommended
19:14 wizzyrea       but it is listed as an option there
19:14 wizzyrea       I mean *I* recommend it
19:14 greenjimll     :-)
19:14 wizzyrea       it could probably *BE* a recommendation
19:14 wizzyrea       :D
19:15 kidclamp       #info Next meeting: 4 September 2019, 13 UTC
19:15 kidclamp       #endmeeting
19:15 huginn`        Meeting ended Wed Aug 21 19:15:11 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
19:15 huginn`        Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/development_irc_meeting_21_august_2019.2019-08-21-19.04.html
19:15 huginn`        Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/development_irc_meeting_21_august_2019.2019-08-21-19.04.txt
19:15 huginn`        Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/development_irc_meeting_21_august_2019.2019-08-21-19.04.log.html
19:15 greenjimll     It sounds like a good idea - git pull often runs out of disc otherwise now and breaks even vagrant up sometimes.
19:15 kidclamp       you can expand your devbox, but it takes some doing
19:15 wizzyrea       yeah it's not a trivial thing really
19:15 wizzyrea       I thought we had a wiki page about that
19:15 greenjimll     Yes, that's why I was looking to script it.
19:16 kidclamp       that would be cool
19:16 greenjimll     Got as far as cloning vmdk to a vdi image, expanding and reattaching today, but then would need ansible to expand filesystem on guest.
19:17 greenjimll     Hence not wanting to go too far down the rabbit hole if there's a better solution such as your repo syncing. Thanks.
19:17 wizzyrea       you might have better luck with the testing docker thing?
19:17 wizzyrea       it's a different animal altogether
19:17 wizzyrea       well not altogether
19:17 wizzyrea       it's like a great dane vs a shih tzu
19:18 greenjimll     Knowing me, both would poop on my laptop. :-) :-)
19:18 wizzyrea       rofl
19:19 greenjimll     OK, I'll try the sync repo thing and have a look at docker too. Thanks. I was spending more of my scant time trying to fix kohadevbox/git than actually developing/testing.
19:20 wizzyrea       can relate :)
19:20 wizzyrea       good luck
19:20 davidnind      koha-testing-docker is the bees knees! (https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-testing-docker)
19:20 wizzyrea       i like it too, but it has it's own quirks
19:21 wizzyrea       like, impermanence (yes, I know it can be fixed to be permanent)
19:21 wizzyrea       or more-permanent
19:22 davidnind      with kohadevbox I never managed to get the repo syncing to work (something NFS, permissions, something, something...)
19:23 davidnind      plus koha-testing-docker is really fast to spin up (bearing i mind I only use for documenting and testing the occasional bug)
19:28 greenjimll     OK, night all!
20:16 * cait         waves
20:39 andreashm      hi cait
20:42 cait           hi andreashm :)
21:06 andreashm      Finally submitted the bug for the collation - uppgrade issue. Bug 23487
21:06 huginn`        Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23487 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Utf8mb4 collation causes problems with missing tables when upgrading the database
21:09 andreashm      poorly written, but perhaps someone else understands what it's about. =)
21:11 ashimema       Oh boo..  I totally missed the meetings
21:11 ashimema       Sorry guys..
21:12 ashimema       Brain fix, I thought it was an entirely different day
21:17 cait           ohohmeetings?
21:17 cait           i thought i msised one.. more?
21:20 andreashm      wasn't one postponed?
21:32 ashimema       Phone corrected meeting to meetings.. sorry
21:32 ashimema       Just one
21:39 cait           ok.. still missed it tho
21:43 ashimema       😭
21:45 cait           i mean I did :)