Time  Nick               Message
21:44 mtompset           Wow, oleonard was so busy with that problem he didn't say bye. :(
17:53 * mtompset         grumbles that "df -h" doesn't include the size of the superblock.
17:27 * mtompset         jokes, "Let's go back to HTML 2.0!"
17:18 oleonard           No wonder you were so angry with floating toolbars
17:18 oleonard           kidclamp: This toolbar/scrolling problem is 100x harder when dealing with table cells :(
17:10 mtompset           Yes you are, and that burn wasn't. Sorry. :)
17:06 oleonard           Nice
17:06 mtompset           oleonard, no? :P
16:02 oleonard           Ain't I being productive? :D
16:02 kidclamp           hehe, sorry if I burned your productivity
16:00 oleonard           Sorry kidclamp you got my brain stewing on that one so here I am.
16:00 kidclamp           true
16:00 oleonard           In particular because the link-to-section behavior is really only relevant during search
15:59 oleonard           A more explicitly labeled link
15:59 oleonard           kidclamp: Yes, I'd like to come up with another way of linking the user to the related section
15:59 oleonard           I'm also guessing the audience of this feature is fairly small
15:58 kidclamp           oleonard++
15:58 kidclamp           The only advantage to the clicking is that it deopsits you in the tab/category so you end up near related prefs, so like you search for one and then get to the area containing, but I like this
15:58 oleonard           That's the way I did it lukeG, but it doesn't have to. I think it looks cluttered otherwise
15:57 lukeG              does the icon disappear if the user isnt hovering?
15:57 oleonard           So I would propose a separate solution for the navigation aspect... tbd
15:56 oleonard           I think we should separate those two aspects: The navigation and the getting of the link
15:56 kidclamp           can you click it to go there too?
15:55 kidclamp           I like it
15:55 kidclamp           ooh, secret secret
15:53 oleonard           https://zivotdesign.com/p/view.php?p=15646746956636
15:53 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23388 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Make system preferences links
15:53 oleonard           I've been thinking about alternative solutions to Bug 23388
15:53 * kidclamp         spins
15:53 oleonard           kidclamp still around?
15:36 oleonard           Hi wizzyrea
15:23 oleonard           Maybe pokeball technology will help
15:23 mtompset           oleonard, this starts sliding towards Paul's argumentation in Romans 9, if you bring in theology. But let's not... I'd rather get my vagrant resizer working for debian boxes properly. :)
15:20 oleonard           If we have a genetic predisposition to NOT want to be eaten, is that unethical?
15:20 mtompset           oleonard, probably.
15:19 mtompset           oleonard, yes, is that even ethical? There is no way it would ask to NOT be eaten, because of the environment it was raised and bred in.
15:19 oleonard           All of this is probably well-covered territory on multiple Tumblrs
15:18 kidclamp           pokeball technology is pretty awesome. They're bigger on the inside? Or pokemon are all drug fueled figments of imagination?
15:18 caroline_catlady   would make for a nice thesis "Representation of slavery in Pokémon"
15:17 oleonard           They're like the beast in Restaurant at the End of the Universe which was bred to want to be eaten
15:17 kidclamp           oh you're 12? time to get out of my house and go it on your own
15:17 kidclamp           it is a troubling concept
15:14 mtompset           Pikachu is the only non-slave, really.
15:14 mtompset           But he keeps them in pokeballs instead of free.
15:14 kidclamp           no no, ash has lots of friends that are pokemon
15:14 mtompset           Oops... AREN'T
15:13 mtompset           kidclamp, at least you are enslaving innocent pokemon to make them fight each other. ;)
15:13 oleonard           kidclamp: Boring to watch, maybe, but I like being in it.
15:13 mtompset           tcohen, just need to solve this readonly issue, and I'm good. :)
15:13 kidclamp           gotta fix them all - the most boring pokemon series
15:12 kidclamp           after two releases I feel like all the bugs are my fault
15:12 oleonard           kidclamp, you're on a patching tear
15:11 tcohen             hi mtompset
14:59 mtompset           shoot... readonly?!
14:40 mtompset           tcohen, I'm testing my vagrant resizer under Ubuntu host now. I was developing under Windows to make sure it would work there.
14:39 huginn`            mtompset: tcohen was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 27 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <tcohen> morning
14:39 mtompset           @seen tcohen
14:39 mtompset           Greetings, #koha
14:24 caroline_catlady   If we can't reuse it, at least we can put a link in the "other resources" section
14:23 caroline_catlady   I like it
14:23 davidnind          the diagrams on teh second page were giving me some ideas
14:22 davidnind          Quite like this cheat sheet as a starting point (will see if I can find a licence to see if we can reuse or adapt) https://about.gitlab.com/images/press/git-cheat-sheet.pdf
14:20 davidnind          nice!
14:20 caroline_catlady   still very much a wip
14:19 caroline_catlady   Got a little bit of the git guide done while y'all were dicussing the technicalities of the wiki https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Git_guide_for_documentation#Key_concepts
14:18 davidnind          keep on documenting!
14:18 davidnind          Thanks everyone!
14:18 huginn`            Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/documentation_irc_meeting_1_august_2019.2019-08-01-13.02.log.html
14:18 huginn`            Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/documentation_irc_meeting_1_august_2019.2019-08-01-13.02.txt
14:18 huginn`            Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/documentation_irc_meeting_1_august_2019.2019-08-01-13.02.html
14:18 huginn`            Meeting ended Thu Aug  1 14:18:26 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
14:18 davidnind          #endmeeting
14:18 davidnind          Credit to Lisette for that! She came up with the updated banner and a picture for meetings during the Koha Community Day.
14:17 caroline_catlady   ooh yeah it's nice :)
14:16 * caroline_catlady is so bad with twitter
14:15 cait               btw - great picture on twitter for  the meeting advertisement :)
14:15 davidnind          Will check with Kelly and adjust if needed
14:14 davidnind          Thanks AndyBoze!
14:14 caroline_catlady   works for me too
14:14 AndyBoze           Sept 5 works for me.
14:14 davidnind          #info Next meeting 5 September 2019 13:00 UTC
14:14 davidnind          time zones!
14:13 caroline_catlady   ok! :)
14:13 davidnind          oops - that should have been the 5th!
14:13 caroline_catlady   I don't mind I'm here all week
14:13 caroline_catlady   sept 6 is a friday (here), is that what you were aiming for?
14:12 davidnind          We can change if needed
14:12 davidnind          Does anyone know whether earlier or later would work for Kelly?
14:12 davidnind          6 September 2019 13:00 UTC for the next meeting?
14:11 davidnind          Jumping right to the end!
14:11 davidnind          #topic Set time for next meeting
14:10 davidnind          #info DOC2 coding guideline: if anyone else has additional ideas or thoughts please add to the talk page https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Talk:Coding_Guidelines#Documentation
14:10 davidnind          +1 from me as well
14:09 davidnind          I know it sometimes takes me a while to work out what a bug is supposed to do, so having some initial info to work with would be great!
14:09 cait               +1
14:08 caroline_catlady   the devs know what they code
14:08 caroline_catlady   makes a lot of sense to me
14:07 davidnind          I take it everyone is supportive of ashimema's proposal to get some initial documentation written for new features, for teh documentation team to tidy up and incorporate?
14:06 davidnind          thanks cait!
14:06 davidnind          it is always a good idea for someone else to have a look if that is possible
14:06 cait               that was all from me :)
14:05 cait               so people know those feature are there if they want to give a +1 to a merge request pending
14:05 davidnind          #info look at using approval process in GitLab before changes are merged, not mandatory at this stage
14:05 davidnind          seems a good idea to me
14:04 cait               just wanted to see if we'd like to play with it
14:04 caroline_catlady   I'm not against it
14:04 cait               yep
14:04 caroline_catlady   We are not a lot of people
14:04 cait               yeah
14:04 cait               i mean we could, but with the still low submission rate it might make things slower
14:04 caroline_catlady   I like the idea of revewing (just to get typos, for example), but it seems time consuming
14:03 cait               I would not propose to make ti mandatory right now
14:03 cait               i think pushing the button won#t hurt :)
14:03 davidnind          It seems worth trying - if I understand it right before something is merged, someone else would have to review and approve the proposed changes?
14:03 cait               just an idea to throw out
14:01 cait               hm that said i am not sure how gets to see the approve tag, but i think the thumbs up and down are always there
14:00 cait               there is also a thumbs up thing
14:00 cait               we haven't made it mandatory, but maybe as a first step if people agree it's helpful we coudl encourage using it?
14:00 cait               i treid it out and rangi said it was helpful for him because it helps to decide what is good to push
14:00 cait               I noticed there is an 'approval' feature on gitlab
14:00 davidnind          go ahead cait!
13:59 davidnind          having some sort of template for the different types of changes may help as well
13:59 cait               i got a question too - is onw a good moment?
13:59 cait               i think even if we got a textual draft instead of a patch it woudl be helpful
13:59 cait               QA will push too of course
13:58 cait               heh
13:58 caroline_catlady   ashimema got his whip out
13:58 cait               i like it, but it might ned a little active pushing
13:58 caroline_catlady   I think that was his intention, yes
13:58 davidnind          I don't know enough about it, but it seems like a good idea - new features get documented (or initial draft) by those who worked on it (if I understand that right)
13:56 davidnind          #info DOC2 coding guideline https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Talk:Coding_Guidelines#Documentation
13:56 davidnind          There is a proposal for the coding guidelines from ashimema about documenting new features
13:55 davidnind          I've worked through the workflow a couple of times, so have some minor updates to make - may ask some questions about git and the workflow at some stage
13:54 caroline_catlady   back!
13:53 davidnind          #topic Workflow
13:53 caroline_catlady   sorry, not here for the moment
13:52 cait               #info caroline_catlady and davidnind have access to the YouTube channel now
13:52 davidnind          anyone else aware of other things being done?
13:52 davidnind          you can never have enough cat videos!
13:51 davidnind          hehe :)
13:51 gmcharlt           [off] /me stares at the cat on top of my desk
13:50 oleonard           [off] more cat videos on Koha YouTube!
13:50 davidnind          at some stage we could look at how we could use YouTube for the documentation - short tutorials, etc
13:50 davidnind          Working on getting the Kohacon19 videos up
13:49 davidnind          Only other thing is that we (caroline_catlady + myself) have access to the Koha YouTube channel
13:49 davidnind          I've added a quick update on the agenda of changes made to the manual, thank you everyone for the updates!
13:48 davidnind          Sorry, probably need to cover the rest of the items:-D
13:48 davidnind          #topic What's been done so far
13:47 oleonard           gmcharlt++
13:47 thd                http://www.winterrodeln.org/trac/browser/servermediawiki/trunk/pgsqltomysql/pgsqltomysql.py
13:47 thd                http://www.winterrodeln.org/trac/wiki/MediaWikiPostgresqlToMysql
13:47 davidnind          thd++
13:46 davidnind          gmcharlt++
13:46 thd                gmcharlt did you see the links I posted about the migration script?
13:46 cait               gmcharlt++
13:45 gmcharlt           2. attempt a trial mediawiki upgrade, mostly for the sake of finding immediate gotchas
13:45 thd                Again, I am not sorry for helping my neighbour who had no one else but I am sorry that my personal commitments to help people who really need it take away from my other activities.
13:45 gmcharlt           1. set up an empty new VM by next week
13:45 gmcharlt           as an aside, my immediate plans on the hosting front are to
13:44 thd                Yes sorry.
13:44 thd                Looking at the server for the first time in a which gmcharlt really did a very thorough job for automated backup dumps etc.  Some things are also under version control.
13:44 davidnind          Is it okay to move on to the next agenda items? I'm conscious of the time.. seems like we are starting to get some some traction on the wiki update, so that is great
13:42 thd                I started trying to do this two weeks ago when the issue was getting attention again and I had some time but I had lost track of the old equinox servername fo ssh access.
13:42 davidnind          #info Updating existing wiki content or marking as obsolete will help with migration - please help out if you can
13:41 thd                Even if we ultimately choose to archive the old state, I would like to work on the old to put in a much better state than it has devolved into.
13:41 davidnind          Thanks thd!
13:40 davidnind          that would be great if it does!
13:40 thd                We do not know unless we try to test.
13:40 thd                It may work perfectly at the first attempt.
13:40 davidnind          #info Wiki update - have kept PHP + Debian OS up-to-date
13:39 davidnind          that sounds laborious and time consuming!
13:39 thd                While the MediaWiki version is old we have alway kept PHP and the underlying Debian version sufficiently up to date to mitigate against security issues.
13:37 thd                If there are problems with current versions of Postgres, MySQL. or Python using the 7 year old migration script and the old Postgres database I intend to go backwards in versions until it works.
13:36 thd                I have created the testing server on Linode.  My own host is much less flexible for scaling up memory or disc space to accommodate 100GB.
13:35 thd                The python script we have to test migration has hard coded variable names.  I suppose we can always try to reach out to the author to be sure we have identified the variable names.
13:35 cait               me too :)
13:34 davidnind          happy to help!
13:34 thd                davidnind: I may need your help or anyone else to test migration or help me with bugs in migration.
13:34 davidnind          thd++
13:33 thd                I am very behind and very sorry about that.
13:33 thd                MediaWiki is much more flexible in that regard.
13:33 thd                The categories adopted in a hierarchical manner and other things were partly a legacy of the only way to have a browsable list of tagged content in Dokuwiki.
13:32 davidnind          Anything else at this stage on the wiki? It's great a start is being made
13:32 thd                Faceting is flexible.
13:31 thd                Not to interpret for him.
13:31 davidnind          aah!
13:31 thd                rangi meant that it was not flexible.
13:31 thd                My elderly neighbour for whom I cared for eight years has passed on and now I do not have to devote all my time to her.
13:30 davidnind          wood?
13:30 thd                We should also not be making wood!  I really do understand rangi's retort about the state of the wiki.
13:30 davidnind          I think it is great that we've made a start, even though there are going to be some 'challenges' along the way
13:30 davidnind          I started work on a structure/plan for the content but haven't got too far yet! There are some nicely organised areas (like the dev manual), but others not so much...
13:30 wahanui            darn tootin' it is.
13:30 davidnind          Excellent!
13:29 caroline_catlady   cool!
13:29 thd                I now have three days a week at a counter with a computer in front of me with time between book buys to do a lot of marking things obsolete.
13:28 thd                I have a commitment to marking everything old.
13:28 thd                The trouble at the time was that almost no wiki content was ever tagged and then it became lost in Dokuwiki.
13:27 thd                A plan for tagging content was a major issue of the first KohaCon.
13:26 thd                Starting over should have a test about how to approach tagging content so that it is findable.
13:26 thd                Yes, much is outdated and everything needs appropriate labelling.
13:26 caroline_catlady   Does starting over need a test?
13:26 cait               ok
13:25 thd                We should test both migration and starting over.
13:25 thd                Sadly I was a couple of days from testing migration a few years ago when I was a couple of days away from a test.
13:25 cait               and it seems it woudl avoid a lot of painful work that might still leave us with some issues if not everything works perfectly
13:25 cait               I hurt a bit for all the work a migration would mean... setting up a new installation might give us some advantage - a lot of the information on the current wiki is not really well structured and outdated
13:24 thd                If we update without migrating then we may be unable to migrate to MySQL for proper functionality later.
13:23 thd                The big problem with simply updating without migrating to MySQL is that the only migration scripts we have are old like the version of the Wiki.
13:22 thd                gmcharlt and I did not know that Postgres did not work with SemanticMediaWiki when we put up the initial MediaWiki test which then suddenly became the default.
13:22 davidnind          #info Wiki update: test server being setup and starting to work through migration options and issues
13:21 thd                SemanticMediaWiki does not work with Postgres.
13:21 thd                I had always intended to put forward a specific proposal about transitioning to faceting tagging with SemanticMediaWiki.
13:20 thd                I also intend to put up an empty test for faceted use.
13:20 davidnind          thd++
13:20 davidnind          that's big!
13:19 thd                Current Postgres dump size which may be a vervose dump seems to be about 100 GB.
13:19 thd                I am setting up a new server to test migration to MySQL when I last had time disk space was less of an issue.
13:18 thd                The experiment with Postgres suddenly became the default with no testing.
13:18 davidnind          I'm still keen on using WikiMedia, there are some really nice things in later versions
13:17 * caroline_catlady should read minutes for meetings she misses -_-
13:17 thd                The problems with the current WiKi stem largely from the experiment being cut short by business conflict over which the old wiki was shut down and outside community control.
13:16 davidnind          Also, I've haven;t added any notes yet from the general meeting - there was some good discussion
13:16 thd                I think we should experiment with options.
13:15 huginn`            Bug 23073: normal, P5 - low, ---, gmc, NEW , wiki.koha-community.org needs updating to a later version
13:15 davidnind          #info Wiki software update bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23073
13:15 thd                http://www.winterrodeln.org/trac/browser/servermediawiki/trunk/pgsqltomysql/pgsqltomysql.py
13:15 thd                I have started work again to try the following: http://www.winterrodeln.org/trac/wiki/MediaWikiPostgresqlToMysql
13:14 thd                Suggestions were made to possibly start over.  The problem is that the existing MediaWiki install uses Postgres.
13:14 cait               and davidnind volunteering to do help with planning?
13:14 cait               Equinox still willing to host
13:14 wahanui            i think really is good to have josef_moravec back.. always get a boost from seeing a bunch of signoffs :)
13:14 caroline_catlady   really?
13:14 cait               with the wiki software to investigate
13:14 cait               i think the conclusion at the meeting was favoring a fresh start
13:13 davidnind          I think I've clicked 'raw' or used the Web IDE
13:13 thd                We discussed the issue a little in the general meeting.
13:13 magnuse            <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.16.2" />
13:13 thd                Updating is non-trivial
13:12 caroline_catlady   going back to action points, do we know if the wiki software has been updated?
13:12 tcohen             morning
13:12 AndyBoze           Gee, didn't think to try that. :-(
13:11 cait               even if the view seemed broken
13:11 cait               AndyBoze: i had that too, but clicking edit still worked
13:11 cait               davidnind++ caroline_catlady++ holly++
13:11 AndyBoze           I was looking to work on some easy tasks like capitalization. Having a problem with GitLab, thouhg. Viewer won't start, just get an error.
13:10 davidnind          rangi always seems to beat me to the doing the merges!
13:10 cait               but really small stuff
13:10 davidnind          cait++
13:10 fridolin           thanks ;)
13:10 cait               I've tried to pick up some small tasks
13:09 cait               and you got over the blank paper
13:09 cait               it's a start
13:09 caroline_catlady   me either for git guide... I started a paper and pen draft, but it's just got "git" at the top ^^;;
13:09 cait               fridolin: don't drown please!
13:09 davidnind          working through the installation guide is going okay, but is a little challenging, so hopefully some updates in the next few days
13:08 davidnind          Have been having fun over the last few days working through some of the action points, but nothing significant to report
13:07 davidnind          throws a life raft..(or maybe water wings)
13:07 fridolin           bloup
13:07 fridolin           cait: sorry im really under water
13:07 caroline_catlady   way to recruit cait! +1
13:07 davidnind          :)
13:06 cait               fridolin: joining the docs meeting? :)
13:06 davidnind          The list seems to get longer!
13:05 wahanui            que tal, thd
13:05 thd                hello
13:05 davidnind          hi thd!
13:05 davidnind          #topic Action points
13:05 davidnind          #info Agenda https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Documentation_IRC_meeting_1_August_2019
13:05 caroline_catlady   hi davidnind!
13:05 davidnind          Hi caroline_catlady and cait!
13:04 caroline_catlady   I always forget that the meeting is earlier now
13:04 thd                #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
13:04 caroline_catlady   #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inLibro
13:04 caroline_catlady   hi just got in!
13:04 alex_a_            Thx!
13:04 alex_a_            cait, nice
13:03 cait               caroline_catlady: ping
13:03 AndyBoze           #info Andy Boze, University of Notre Dame, USA
13:03 cait               #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
13:02 davidnind          #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
13:02 davidnind          #topic Introductions
13:02 huginn`            The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_irc_meeting_1_august_2019'
13:02 huginn`            Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:02 huginn`            Meeting started Thu Aug  1 13:02:03 2019 UTC.  The chair is davidnind. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:02 davidnind          #startmeeting Documentation IRC meeting 1 August 2019
13:01 davidnind          We'll get started...
13:01 AndyBoze           Hi davidnind.
13:01 davidnind          Hopefully there are enough of us here for the documentation meeting
13:00 cait               we have them in a few places now already
13:00 cait               filters
13:00 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23409 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, alex.arnaud, Needs Signoff , Show borrowernotes and opacnote's lines feeds (staff)
13:00 cait               alex_a_: I think bug 23409 could be solve nicely with TT filets
12:57 davidnind          Hi AndyBoze!
12:49 coriA__            lol
12:49 oleonard           When I feel this much overwhelming love for everyone around me it's definitely too much coffee
12:48 coriA__            too much coffee, is that really a thing, oleonard?
12:11 oleonard           I resent the implication that all my thrown together ideas might not be perfect gems.
12:09 kidclamp           it was a thrown together idea
12:09 kidclamp           if you approve of mine :-)
12:09 * oleonard         has had too much coffee already
12:08 oleonard           Or I could add it to yours. That probably makes more sense?
12:07 kidclamp           ah putting it on yours :-)
12:07 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23410 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Add submenus to system preferences sidebar menu
12:07 oleonard           Bug 23410
12:07 kidclamp           isn't that the one?
12:07 oleonard           Whoops, not that one
12:07 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23388 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Make system preferences links
12:07 oleonard           I'm putting it in Bug 23388
12:06 kidclamp           we should try the clean one
12:06 kidclamp           I lnciuded the dirty one
12:04 oleonard           Never mind XD
12:04 oleonard           Oh you included that :D
12:03 oleonard           kidclamp: I'm glad I googled this issue. I like the "Fancier" solution offered here: https://css-tricks.com/hash-tag-links-padding/
11:57 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23407 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , XSLT Details pages don't use items, we shouldn't pass them
11:56 kidclamp           bug 23407
11:46 kidclamp           I patched it magnuse
11:46 calire             I'll keep an eye on the post ;)
11:44 oleonard           I didn't get a delivery confirmation on that emergency flan, so... I guess that was a bust.
11:44 calire             no longer require an ice pack glued to my face :D
11:42 calire             oleonard: alright, thanks. Just tired! :)
11:41 oleonard           Hi calire how are you doing today?
11:41 wahanui            hi oleopard
11:41 calire             hi oleonard
11:35 oleonard           Hi all
08:45 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23408 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Relatives' checkout table columns are not configured properly
08:45 magnuse            bug 23408
08:28 huginn`            mtj: The operation succeeded.
08:28 mtj                @later tell lukeG: perhaps add a pic to BZ 23408
07:43 magnuse            god morgen
07:34 cait               morning
07:29 calire             morning
07:02 wahanui            hello, alex_a
07:02 alex_a             bonjour
06:58 fridolin           hi
06:36 reiveune           hello
06:30 marcelr            hi #koha