Time  Nick               Message
06:30 marcelr            hi #koha
06:36 reiveune           hello
06:58 fridolin           hi
07:02 alex_a             bonjour
07:02 wahanui            hello, alex_a
07:29 calire             morning
07:34 cait               morning
07:43 magnuse            god morgen
08:28 mtj                @later tell lukeG: perhaps add a pic to BZ 23408
08:28 huginn`            mtj: The operation succeeded.
08:45 magnuse            bug 23408
08:45 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23408 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Relatives' checkout table columns are not configured properly
11:35 oleonard           Hi all
11:41 calire             hi oleonard
11:41 wahanui            hi oleopard
11:41 oleonard           Hi calire how are you doing today?
11:42 calire             oleonard: alright, thanks. Just tired! :)
11:44 calire             no longer require an ice pack glued to my face :D
11:44 oleonard           I didn't get a delivery confirmation on that emergency flan, so... I guess that was a bust.
11:46 calire             I'll keep an eye on the post ;)
11:46 kidclamp           I patched it magnuse
11:56 kidclamp           bug 23407
11:57 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23407 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , XSLT Details pages don't use items, we shouldn't pass them
12:03 oleonard           kidclamp: I'm glad I googled this issue. I like the "Fancier" solution offered here: https://css-tricks.com/hash-tag-links-padding/
12:04 oleonard           Oh you included that :D
12:04 oleonard           Never mind XD
12:06 kidclamp           I lnciuded the dirty one
12:06 kidclamp           we should try the clean one
12:07 oleonard           I'm putting it in Bug 23388
12:07 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23388 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Make system preferences links
12:07 oleonard           Whoops, not that one
12:07 kidclamp           isn't that the one?
12:07 oleonard           Bug 23410
12:07 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23410 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, ASSIGNED , Add submenus to system preferences sidebar menu
12:07 kidclamp           ah putting it on yours :-)
12:08 oleonard           Or I could add it to yours. That probably makes more sense?
12:09 * oleonard         has had too much coffee already
12:09 kidclamp           if you approve of mine :-)
12:09 kidclamp           it was a thrown together idea
12:11 oleonard           I resent the implication that all my thrown together ideas might not be perfect gems.
12:48 coriA__            too much coffee, is that really a thing, oleonard?
12:49 oleonard           When I feel this much overwhelming love for everyone around me it's definitely too much coffee
12:49 coriA__            lol
12:57 davidnind          Hi AndyBoze!
13:00 cait               alex_a_: I think bug 23409 could be solve nicely with TT filets
13:00 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23409 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, alex.arnaud, Needs Signoff , Show borrowernotes and opacnote's lines feeds (staff)
13:00 cait               filters
13:00 cait               we have them in a few places now already
13:01 davidnind          Hopefully there are enough of us here for the documentation meeting
13:01 AndyBoze           Hi davidnind.
13:01 davidnind          We'll get started...
13:02 davidnind          #startmeeting Documentation IRC meeting 1 August 2019
13:02 huginn`            Meeting started Thu Aug  1 13:02:03 2019 UTC.  The chair is davidnind. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:02 huginn`            Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
13:02 huginn`            The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_irc_meeting_1_august_2019'
13:02 davidnind          #topic Introductions
13:02 davidnind          #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
13:03 cait               #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
13:03 AndyBoze           #info Andy Boze, University of Notre Dame, USA
13:03 cait               caroline_catlady: ping
13:04 alex_a_            cait, nice
13:04 alex_a_            Thx!
13:04 caroline_catlady   hi just got in!
13:04 caroline_catlady   #info Caroline Cyr La Rose, inLibro
13:04 thd                #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
13:04 caroline_catlady   I always forget that the meeting is earlier now
13:05 davidnind          Hi caroline_catlady and cait!
13:05 caroline_catlady   hi davidnind!
13:05 davidnind          #info Agenda https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Documentation_IRC_meeting_1_August_2019
13:05 davidnind          #topic Action points
13:05 davidnind          hi thd!
13:05 thd                hello
13:05 wahanui            que tal, thd
13:06 davidnind          The list seems to get longer!
13:06 cait               fridolin: joining the docs meeting? :)
13:07 davidnind          :)
13:07 caroline_catlady   way to recruit cait! +1
13:07 fridolin           cait: sorry im really under water
13:07 fridolin           bloup
13:07 davidnind          throws a life raft..(or maybe water wings)
13:08 davidnind          Have been having fun over the last few days working through some of the action points, but nothing significant to report
13:09 davidnind          working through the installation guide is going okay, but is a little challenging, so hopefully some updates in the next few days
13:09 cait               fridolin: don't drown please!
13:09 caroline_catlady   me either for git guide... I started a paper and pen draft, but it's just got "git" at the top ^^;;
13:09 cait               it's a start
13:09 cait               and you got over the blank paper
13:10 cait               I've tried to pick up some small tasks
13:10 fridolin           thanks ;)
13:10 davidnind          cait++
13:10 cait               but really small stuff
13:10 davidnind          rangi always seems to beat me to the doing the merges!
13:11 AndyBoze           I was looking to work on some easy tasks like capitalization. Having a problem with GitLab, thouhg. Viewer won't start, just get an error.
13:11 cait               davidnind++ caroline_catlady++ holly++
13:11 cait               AndyBoze: i had that too, but clicking edit still worked
13:11 cait               even if the view seemed broken
13:12 AndyBoze           Gee, didn't think to try that. :-(
13:12 tcohen             morning
13:12 caroline_catlady   going back to action points, do we know if the wiki software has been updated?
13:13 thd                Updating is non-trivial
13:13 magnuse            <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.16.2" />
13:13 thd                We discussed the issue a little in the general meeting.
13:13 davidnind          I think I've clicked 'raw' or used the Web IDE
13:14 cait               i think the conclusion at the meeting was favoring a fresh start
13:14 cait               with the wiki software to investigate
13:14 caroline_catlady   really?
13:14 wahanui            i think really is good to have josef_moravec back.. always get a boost from seeing a bunch of signoffs :)
13:14 cait               Equinox still willing to host
13:14 cait               and davidnind volunteering to do help with planning?
13:14 thd                Suggestions were made to possibly start over.  The problem is that the existing MediaWiki install uses Postgres.
13:15 thd                I have started work again to try the following: http://www.winterrodeln.org/trac/wiki/MediaWikiPostgresqlToMysql
13:15 thd                http://www.winterrodeln.org/trac/browser/servermediawiki/trunk/pgsqltomysql/pgsqltomysql.py
13:15 davidnind          #info Wiki software update bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23073
13:15 huginn`            Bug 23073: normal, P5 - low, ---, gmc, NEW , wiki.koha-community.org needs updating to a later version
13:16 thd                I think we should experiment with options.
13:16 davidnind          Also, I've haven;t added any notes yet from the general meeting - there was some good discussion
13:17 thd                The problems with the current WiKi stem largely from the experiment being cut short by business conflict over which the old wiki was shut down and outside community control.
13:17 * caroline_catlady should read minutes for meetings she misses -_-
13:18 davidnind          I'm still keen on using WikiMedia, there are some really nice things in later versions
13:18 thd                The experiment with Postgres suddenly became the default with no testing.
13:19 thd                I am setting up a new server to test migration to MySQL when I last had time disk space was less of an issue.
13:19 thd                Current Postgres dump size which may be a vervose dump seems to be about 100 GB.
13:20 davidnind          that's big!
13:20 davidnind          thd++
13:20 thd                I also intend to put up an empty test for faceted use.
13:21 thd                I had always intended to put forward a specific proposal about transitioning to faceting tagging with SemanticMediaWiki.
13:21 thd                SemanticMediaWiki does not work with Postgres.
13:22 davidnind          #info Wiki update: test server being setup and starting to work through migration options and issues
13:22 thd                gmcharlt and I did not know that Postgres did not work with SemanticMediaWiki when we put up the initial MediaWiki test which then suddenly became the default.
13:23 thd                The big problem with simply updating without migrating to MySQL is that the only migration scripts we have are old like the version of the Wiki.
13:24 thd                If we update without migrating then we may be unable to migrate to MySQL for proper functionality later.
13:25 cait               I hurt a bit for all the work a migration would mean... setting up a new installation might give us some advantage - a lot of the information on the current wiki is not really well structured and outdated
13:25 cait               and it seems it woudl avoid a lot of painful work that might still leave us with some issues if not everything works perfectly
13:25 thd                Sadly I was a couple of days from testing migration a few years ago when I was a couple of days away from a test.
13:25 thd                We should test both migration and starting over.
13:26 cait               ok
13:26 caroline_catlady   Does starting over need a test?
13:26 thd                Yes, much is outdated and everything needs appropriate labelling.
13:26 thd                Starting over should have a test about how to approach tagging content so that it is findable.
13:27 thd                A plan for tagging content was a major issue of the first KohaCon.
13:28 thd                The trouble at the time was that almost no wiki content was ever tagged and then it became lost in Dokuwiki.
13:28 thd                I have a commitment to marking everything old.
13:29 thd                I now have three days a week at a counter with a computer in front of me with time between book buys to do a lot of marking things obsolete.
13:29 caroline_catlady   cool!
13:30 davidnind          Excellent!
13:30 wahanui            darn tootin' it is.
13:30 davidnind          I started work on a structure/plan for the content but haven't got too far yet! There are some nicely organised areas (like the dev manual), but others not so much...
13:30 davidnind          I think it is great that we've made a start, even though there are going to be some 'challenges' along the way
13:30 thd                We should also not be making wood!  I really do understand rangi's retort about the state of the wiki.
13:30 davidnind          wood?
13:31 thd                My elderly neighbour for whom I cared for eight years has passed on and now I do not have to devote all my time to her.
13:31 thd                rangi meant that it was not flexible.
13:31 davidnind          aah!
13:31 thd                Not to interpret for him.
13:32 thd                Faceting is flexible.
13:32 davidnind          Anything else at this stage on the wiki? It's great a start is being made
13:33 thd                The categories adopted in a hierarchical manner and other things were partly a legacy of the only way to have a browsable list of tagged content in Dokuwiki.
13:33 thd                MediaWiki is much more flexible in that regard.
13:33 thd                I am very behind and very sorry about that.
13:34 davidnind          thd++
13:34 thd                davidnind: I may need your help or anyone else to test migration or help me with bugs in migration.
13:34 davidnind          happy to help!
13:35 cait               me too :)
13:35 thd                The python script we have to test migration has hard coded variable names.  I suppose we can always try to reach out to the author to be sure we have identified the variable names.
13:36 thd                I have created the testing server on Linode.  My own host is much less flexible for scaling up memory or disc space to accommodate 100GB.
13:37 thd                If there are problems with current versions of Postgres, MySQL. or Python using the 7 year old migration script and the old Postgres database I intend to go backwards in versions until it works.
13:39 thd                While the MediaWiki version is old we have alway kept PHP and the underlying Debian version sufficiently up to date to mitigate against security issues.
13:39 davidnind          that sounds laborious and time consuming!
13:40 davidnind          #info Wiki update - have kept PHP + Debian OS up-to-date
13:40 thd                It may work perfectly at the first attempt.
13:40 thd                We do not know unless we try to test.
13:40 davidnind          that would be great if it does!
13:41 davidnind          Thanks thd!
13:41 thd                Even if we ultimately choose to archive the old state, I would like to work on the old to put in a much better state than it has devolved into.
13:42 davidnind          #info Updating existing wiki content or marking as obsolete will help with migration - please help out if you can
13:42 thd                I started trying to do this two weeks ago when the issue was getting attention again and I had some time but I had lost track of the old equinox servername fo ssh access.
13:44 davidnind          Is it okay to move on to the next agenda items? I'm conscious of the time.. seems like we are starting to get some some traction on the wiki update, so that is great
13:44 thd                Looking at the server for the first time in a which gmcharlt really did a very thorough job for automated backup dumps etc.  Some things are also under version control.
13:44 thd                Yes sorry.
13:45 gmcharlt           as an aside, my immediate plans on the hosting front are to
13:45 gmcharlt           1. set up an empty new VM by next week
13:45 thd                Again, I am not sorry for helping my neighbour who had no one else but I am sorry that my personal commitments to help people who really need it take away from my other activities.
13:45 gmcharlt           2. attempt a trial mediawiki upgrade, mostly for the sake of finding immediate gotchas
13:46 cait               gmcharlt++
13:46 thd                gmcharlt did you see the links I posted about the migration script?
13:46 davidnind          gmcharlt++
13:47 davidnind          thd++
13:47 thd                http://www.winterrodeln.org/trac/wiki/MediaWikiPostgresqlToMysql
13:47 thd                http://www.winterrodeln.org/trac/browser/servermediawiki/trunk/pgsqltomysql/pgsqltomysql.py
13:47 oleonard           gmcharlt++
13:48 davidnind          #topic What's been done so far
13:48 davidnind          Sorry, probably need to cover the rest of the items:-D
13:49 davidnind          I've added a quick update on the agenda of changes made to the manual, thank you everyone for the updates!
13:49 davidnind          Only other thing is that we (caroline_catlady + myself) have access to the Koha YouTube channel
13:50 davidnind          Working on getting the Kohacon19 videos up
13:50 davidnind          at some stage we could look at how we could use YouTube for the documentation - short tutorials, etc
13:50 oleonard           [off] more cat videos on Koha YouTube!
13:51 gmcharlt           [off] /me stares at the cat on top of my desk
13:51 davidnind          hehe :)
13:52 davidnind          you can never have enough cat videos!
13:52 davidnind          anyone else aware of other things being done?
13:52 cait               #info caroline_catlady and davidnind have access to the YouTube channel now
13:53 caroline_catlady   sorry, not here for the moment
13:53 davidnind          #topic Workflow
13:54 caroline_catlady   back!
13:55 davidnind          I've worked through the workflow a couple of times, so have some minor updates to make - may ask some questions about git and the workflow at some stage
13:56 davidnind          There is a proposal for the coding guidelines from ashimema about documenting new features
13:56 davidnind          #info DOC2 coding guideline https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Talk:Coding_Guidelines#Documentation
13:58 davidnind          I don't know enough about it, but it seems like a good idea - new features get documented (or initial draft) by those who worked on it (if I understand that right)
13:58 caroline_catlady   I think that was his intention, yes
13:58 cait               i like it, but it might ned a little active pushing
13:58 caroline_catlady   ashimema got his whip out
13:58 cait               heh
13:59 cait               QA will push too of course
13:59 cait               i think even if we got a textual draft instead of a patch it woudl be helpful
13:59 cait               i got a question too - is onw a good moment?
13:59 davidnind          having some sort of template for the different types of changes may help as well
14:00 davidnind          go ahead cait!
14:00 cait               I noticed there is an 'approval' feature on gitlab
14:00 cait               i treid it out and rangi said it was helpful for him because it helps to decide what is good to push
14:00 cait               we haven't made it mandatory, but maybe as a first step if people agree it's helpful we coudl encourage using it?
14:00 cait               there is also a thumbs up thing
14:01 cait               hm that said i am not sure how gets to see the approve tag, but i think the thumbs up and down are always there
14:03 cait               just an idea to throw out
14:03 davidnind          It seems worth trying - if I understand it right before something is merged, someone else would have to review and approve the proposed changes?
14:03 cait               i think pushing the button won#t hurt :)
14:03 cait               I would not propose to make ti mandatory right now
14:04 caroline_catlady   I like the idea of revewing (just to get typos, for example), but it seems time consuming
14:04 cait               i mean we could, but with the still low submission rate it might make things slower
14:04 cait               yeah
14:04 caroline_catlady   We are not a lot of people
14:04 cait               yep
14:04 caroline_catlady   I'm not against it
14:04 cait               just wanted to see if we'd like to play with it
14:05 davidnind          seems a good idea to me
14:05 davidnind          #info look at using approval process in GitLab before changes are merged, not mandatory at this stage
14:05 cait               so people know those feature are there if they want to give a +1 to a merge request pending
14:06 cait               that was all from me :)
14:06 davidnind          it is always a good idea for someone else to have a look if that is possible
14:06 davidnind          thanks cait!
14:07 davidnind          I take it everyone is supportive of ashimema's proposal to get some initial documentation written for new features, for teh documentation team to tidy up and incorporate?
14:08 caroline_catlady   makes a lot of sense to me
14:08 caroline_catlady   the devs know what they code
14:09 cait               +1
14:09 davidnind          I know it sometimes takes me a while to work out what a bug is supposed to do, so having some initial info to work with would be great!
14:10 davidnind          +1 from me as well
14:10 davidnind          #info DOC2 coding guideline: if anyone else has additional ideas or thoughts please add to the talk page https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Talk:Coding_Guidelines#Documentation
14:11 davidnind          #topic Set time for next meeting
14:11 davidnind          Jumping right to the end!
14:12 davidnind          6 September 2019 13:00 UTC for the next meeting?
14:12 davidnind          Does anyone know whether earlier or later would work for Kelly?
14:12 davidnind          We can change if needed
14:13 caroline_catlady   sept 6 is a friday (here), is that what you were aiming for?
14:13 caroline_catlady   I don't mind I'm here all week
14:13 davidnind          oops - that should have been the 5th!
14:13 caroline_catlady   ok! :)
14:14 davidnind          time zones!
14:14 davidnind          #info Next meeting 5 September 2019 13:00 UTC
14:14 AndyBoze           Sept 5 works for me.
14:14 caroline_catlady   works for me too
14:14 davidnind          Thanks AndyBoze!
14:15 davidnind          Will check with Kelly and adjust if needed
14:15 cait               btw - great picture on twitter for  the meeting advertisement :)
14:16 * caroline_catlady is so bad with twitter
14:17 caroline_catlady   ooh yeah it's nice :)
14:18 davidnind          Credit to Lisette for that! She came up with the updated banner and a picture for meetings during the Koha Community Day.
14:18 davidnind          #endmeeting
14:18 huginn`            Meeting ended Thu Aug  1 14:18:26 2019 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
14:18 huginn`            Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/documentation_irc_meeting_1_august_2019.2019-08-01-13.02.html
14:18 huginn`            Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/documentation_irc_meeting_1_august_2019.2019-08-01-13.02.txt
14:18 huginn`            Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2019/documentation_irc_meeting_1_august_2019.2019-08-01-13.02.log.html
14:18 davidnind          Thanks everyone!
14:18 davidnind          keep on documenting!
14:19 caroline_catlady   Got a little bit of the git guide done while y'all were dicussing the technicalities of the wiki https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Git_guide_for_documentation#Key_concepts
14:20 caroline_catlady   still very much a wip
14:20 davidnind          nice!
14:22 davidnind          Quite like this cheat sheet as a starting point (will see if I can find a licence to see if we can reuse or adapt) https://about.gitlab.com/images/press/git-cheat-sheet.pdf
14:23 davidnind          the diagrams on teh second page were giving me some ideas
14:23 caroline_catlady   I like it
14:24 caroline_catlady   If we can't reuse it, at least we can put a link in the "other resources" section
14:39 mtompset           Greetings, #koha
14:39 mtompset           @seen tcohen
14:39 huginn`            mtompset: tcohen was last seen in #koha 1 hour, 27 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <tcohen> morning
14:40 mtompset           tcohen, I'm testing my vagrant resizer under Ubuntu host now. I was developing under Windows to make sure it would work there.
14:59 mtompset           shoot... readonly?!
15:11 tcohen             hi mtompset
15:12 oleonard           kidclamp, you're on a patching tear
15:12 kidclamp           after two releases I feel like all the bugs are my fault
15:13 kidclamp           gotta fix them all - the most boring pokemon series
15:13 mtompset           tcohen, just need to solve this readonly issue, and I'm good. :)
15:13 oleonard           kidclamp: Boring to watch, maybe, but I like being in it.
15:13 mtompset           kidclamp, at least you are enslaving innocent pokemon to make them fight each other. ;)
15:14 mtompset           Oops... AREN'T
15:14 kidclamp           no no, ash has lots of friends that are pokemon
15:14 mtompset           But he keeps them in pokeballs instead of free.
15:14 mtompset           Pikachu is the only non-slave, really.
15:17 kidclamp           it is a troubling concept
15:17 kidclamp           oh you're 12? time to get out of my house and go it on your own
15:17 oleonard           They're like the beast in Restaurant at the End of the Universe which was bred to want to be eaten
15:18 caroline_catlady   would make for a nice thesis "Representation of slavery in Pokémon"
15:18 kidclamp           pokeball technology is pretty awesome. They're bigger on the inside? Or pokemon are all drug fueled figments of imagination?
15:19 oleonard           All of this is probably well-covered territory on multiple Tumblrs
15:19 mtompset           oleonard, yes, is that even ethical? There is no way it would ask to NOT be eaten, because of the environment it was raised and bred in.
15:20 mtompset           oleonard, probably.
15:20 oleonard           If we have a genetic predisposition to NOT want to be eaten, is that unethical?
15:23 mtompset           oleonard, this starts sliding towards Paul's argumentation in Romans 9, if you bring in theology. But let's not... I'd rather get my vagrant resizer working for debian boxes properly. :)
15:23 oleonard           Maybe pokeball technology will help
15:36 oleonard           Hi wizzyrea
15:53 oleonard           kidclamp still around?
15:53 * kidclamp         spins
15:53 oleonard           I've been thinking about alternative solutions to Bug 23388
15:53 huginn`            Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=23388 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Signed Off , Make system preferences links
15:53 oleonard           https://zivotdesign.com/p/view.php?p=15646746956636
15:55 kidclamp           ooh, secret secret
15:55 kidclamp           I like it
15:56 kidclamp           can you click it to go there too?
15:56 oleonard           I think we should separate those two aspects: The navigation and the getting of the link
15:57 oleonard           So I would propose a separate solution for the navigation aspect... tbd
15:57 lukeG              does the icon disappear if the user isnt hovering?
15:58 oleonard           That's the way I did it lukeG, but it doesn't have to. I think it looks cluttered otherwise
15:58 kidclamp           The only advantage to the clicking is that it deopsits you in the tab/category so you end up near related prefs, so like you search for one and then get to the area containing, but I like this
15:58 kidclamp           oleonard++
15:59 oleonard           I'm also guessing the audience of this feature is fairly small
15:59 oleonard           kidclamp: Yes, I'd like to come up with another way of linking the user to the related section
15:59 oleonard           A more explicitly labeled link
16:00 oleonard           In particular because the link-to-section behavior is really only relevant during search
16:00 kidclamp           true
16:00 oleonard           Sorry kidclamp you got my brain stewing on that one so here I am.
16:02 kidclamp           hehe, sorry if I burned your productivity
16:02 oleonard           Ain't I being productive? :D
17:06 mtompset           oleonard, no? :P
17:06 oleonard           Nice
17:10 mtompset           Yes you are, and that burn wasn't. Sorry. :)
17:18 oleonard           kidclamp: This toolbar/scrolling problem is 100x harder when dealing with table cells :(
17:18 oleonard           No wonder you were so angry with floating toolbars
17:27 * mtompset         jokes, "Let's go back to HTML 2.0!"
17:53 * mtompset         grumbles that "df -h" doesn't include the size of the superblock.
21:44 mtompset           Wow, oleonard was so busy with that problem he didn't say bye. :(