Time Nick Message
23:29 caroline good night all!
23:29 caroline good luck espen_!
23:23 espen_ I'll be back for further ideas if it doesn't make a difference!
23:22 espen_ yes. Not convinced this has anything to do with the circulation bug we're seeing but should definitely be eliminated from the pool of suspects!
23:21 caroline you have a backup?
23:20 espen_ I'll have a go at deleting the old_issue
23:18 espen_ then i just want to make sure we don't lose any cataloging as that represents real hours of work
23:18 espen_ My other alternative is to roll back
23:17 espen_ We're 'production' but it's a small members only library so we can tolerate hiccups in issuing
23:16 espen_ Ok. That's probably worth a try.
23:16 caroline I just delete my old_issues, but then, i'm not working in a production environment
23:15 caroline I don't understand it either... Sorry!
23:14 espen_ Not entirely clear what the fix is (yet)!
23:12 caroline I think this is the page : https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/DBMS_auto_increment_fix
23:11 caroline It's a know issue since 18.05
23:11 caroline there's a wiki page for that
23:09 espen_ Err...
23:07 espen_ "Some of your tables have problems with their auto_increment values which may lead to data loss."
23:07 espen_ In testing this I've just discovered a secondary problem returning an item: he item has not been returned due to a configuration issue in your system.
23:05 caroline hmm... did they add a new section to the rules maybe? Like you have to have a default checkout rule (under the circulation rules table) or something?
23:04 espen_ patrons can't self-issue on the terminals.
23:04 espen_ With an option to Confirm "Y/N"
23:03 espen_ Message, in the staff interface is: "Please Confirm Issue/This user can't check out this item per library circulation policy./No circulation rule is defined for this user and itemtype combination."
23:02 espen_ No circulation rule is defined for this user and itemtype combination.
23:02 espen_ This user can't check out this item per library circulation policy.
23:02 espen_ Please confirm issue
23:02 caroline Maybe it doesn't have anything to do with the rules then and the message is misleading...
23:00 espen_ As far as I can tell it doesn't work for any combination. It's a pretty basic setup. Users are "All" or "College Member" and items are "Books" or "DVDs"
22:58 caroline does it work for other patron category/item type combinations? (ie are all loans blocked, or just that combination?)
22:58 espen_ There is also a rule for "All" for "Books"
22:57 espen_ User is in a Category which has a defined set of rules, item is a Book. Baffled!
22:55 espen_ I can't see what could have changed and looking at the circulation rules I can't see anything amiss
22:54 espen_ Need some troubleshooting help here. Just updated a koha system to 18.05 then 18.11 and have been left with an issue where issuing has stopped working with a "No circulation rule is defined for this user and itemtype combination."
21:49 cait I've seen that they sometimes execute, but we had reports about them not downloading then
21:41 CrispyBran That is why. :/ Okay.
21:39 CrispyBran no. I am leaving the call number empty.
21:31 cait and you left it empty?
21:28 CrispyBran It is part of a weeding report I am trying to update. This piece finds all old issues that have circed between two dates that were not added after a certain date. The value is the threshold for the number of circs in that time period. So if I only want to see the items that circed 2 times or less, I would enter 2.
21:24 caroline CrispyBran: what is this looking for? I'm trying it in my system, but I'm not sure what I'm supposed to put in as value
21:20 CrispyBran Any idea why "Value" is processed as NULL? If I hard code a value, it works.
21:19 CrispyBran See ^^
21:14 pastebot "crispybran" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "SELECT counts,itemnumber,bibli" (7 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/193
21:09 reiveune bye
20:14 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21906 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , WHERE clause doesn't like % in CONCAT
20:14 CrispyBran bug 21906
19:48 cait :)
18:22 khall CrispyBran: file a ticket for that. Ask if we can have an educator make a video on how to use it for everyone to share!
18:22 ashimema I had a few this morning barton , but none since
18:21 cait khall: ?
18:21 cait CrispyBran: haven't tried it yet, but i remember there was some kind of trick to the hierarchies
18:14 barton yeah, it's intermittent for me.
18:13 CrispyBran Not here
18:13 kidclamp I get them every so often barton
18:13 barton got '504 Gateway Time-out
18:13 barton hey, is anyone else getting timeouts on https://bugs.koha-community.org ? I've been seeing this for a couple of days.
17:58 CrispyBran Is anyone able to get the Limit patron data access by group feature in the Library groups to work? I can only get the view_borrower_infos_from_any_libraries preference in individual accounts to work, but nothing seems to happen with the switch in Library groups.
17:49 cait mmmh mochi
17:49 cait :)
17:49 tuxayo o/
17:49 tuxayo Bye all, gotta go
17:49 tuxayo he he.
17:49 caroline yes the rabbit making mochi
17:48 cait i tihnkin japanese there is a hare on the moon tsuki no usagi
17:48 cait man on the moon...
17:47 caroline My brain cannot get around the fact that the moon is masculin XD
17:47 caroline yes!
17:47 cait i tihnk just the opposite from french?
17:47 cait die Sonne, der Mond, correct :)
17:47 caroline cait: can you confirm, in german, the moon is masc and the sun is fem?
17:46 cait caroline++ :)
17:44 caroline masc, fem and neutral
17:44 caroline German has three
17:43 tuxayo Oh deer🦌, there can be more?!
17:42 caroline tuxayo: at least we only have two ;)
17:42 tuxayo caroline: blessed be the french language for having gender for objects and concepts ^^"
17:35 tuxayo caroline: oh I see, thanks for the details, I'll keep digging into this topic and write some doc to help our Dutch speakers (and other language with varieties) to share work.
17:34 caroline that is not dealt with automatically
17:34 tuxayo :O
17:33 caroline tuxayo: and if it's gender, then all the adjectives have to be changed too @_@
17:32 caroline tuxayo: re:articles, yes gender or elisions. Like une fiche vs un dossier, un quitus vs une quittance, le plugin vs l'extension
17:31 CrispyBran howdy
17:31 tcohen hola CrispyBran
17:31 huginn tcohen: I have not seen @seen.
17:31 tcohen @seen @seen
17:31 huginn tcohen: CrispyBran was last seen in #koha 8 seconds ago: <CrispyBran> @seen kidclamp
17:31 tcohen @seen CrispyBran
17:31 huginn CrispyBran: kidclamp was last seen in #koha 3 hours, 46 minutes, and 24 seconds ago: <kidclamp> heh
17:31 CrispyBran @seen kidclamp
17:31 wahanui que tal, tcohen
17:31 tcohen hi
17:31 huginn CrispyBran: tcohen was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 1 minute, and 53 seconds ago: <tcohen> Joubu++
17:31 CrispyBran @seen tcohen
17:30 caroline tuxayo: at first I thought it would be only some library science terms that would be changed (like désherbage vs élagage), but while looking at the po files, I noticed a lot of words are not used here (like contrôler which means verify in fr-FR but here it means to control)
17:30 huginn CrispyBran: oleonard was last seen in #koha 3 hours, 26 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <oleonard> Freddy_Enrique: Is it correct that you are trying to connect to an SRU server, not a Z39.50 server?
17:30 CrispyBran @seen oleonard
17:27 tuxayo «dealing with articles» like word gender change between fr_FR and fr_CA?
17:27 tuxayo caroline: «find the terms to be changed» I don't get it, do you have examples?
17:26 caroline I don't know if NL would have that problem
17:26 caroline and also dealing with articles
17:25 caroline what is long and tedious is going through the translations to find the terms to be changed
17:24 tuxayo caroline: this is great :)
17:24 caroline tuxayo: I don't know the specifics, since I'm not the one who coded it, but I submitted a list of terms to be replaced. So instead of copying fr-FR strings into fr-CA unstranslated strings, it copies while replacing France-specific terms with Quebec/Canada-specific ones
17:22 tuxayo What are the differences between po-reuse and your fr-FR to fr-CA script ?
17:16 tuxayo caroline: congrats! :D
17:02 Vero How to migrate fields to fixed length elements, example From Excel how field 008 is handled to pass it to marcedit
16:58 cait looks nice!
16:49 caroline Victory! I'm gonna cry https://snag.gy/skxTY0.jpg
16:46 caroline tuxayo: yes exactly
16:45 tuxayo caroline: So it allows you to get the missing strings from fr_FR without overwriting the strings that you already have (thus preserving the fr_CA specificities). So you have to search from fr_FR specific words and replace them right?
16:42 caroline almost there, but now I'm missing words ... T_T https://snag.gy/ZszoPd.jpg
16:39 ashimema do we use bootstrap tooltips in the staff client anywhere?
16:39 ashimema oleonard about?
16:36 ashimema interesting
16:34 caroline so we have some very french sounding words ;)
16:34 caroline so if fr-FR is at 100% and fr-CA at 80%, we can copy the fr-FR strings into the missing 20%, but it doesn't change the words
16:33 tuxayo Or maybe it's more tedious actually
16:33 tuxayo ashimema: The english locales could maybe cheat: only translate on Pootle strings that uses word that should be diffrent from en_US. Then the visual result will be the same. As Koha fallsback to en_US when translation is missing.
16:33 caroline po-reuse fills the untranslated string with translated strings from another file
16:32 caroline the latter is adapted from the former
16:32 tuxayo caroline: I though it was the same thing.
16:31 caroline I'm talking about the po-reuse script from bernardo, not the fr-FR to fr-CA script
16:31 tuxayo caroline: yay! Maybe sent it in the koha-translate mailing list?
16:29 caroline do you want me to forward it?
16:29 caroline tuxayo: no idea, he sent it to me by email
16:29 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17015 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, charles.farmer, Needs Signoff , New Koha Calendar
16:29 caroline getting bug 17015 to pass qa would make a great bribe for him ;)
16:28 tuxayo caroline: great! thanks :) Was it in the release tools? Or in the main repo?
16:26 ashimema for en => en_GB
16:26 ashimema interesting.. I'd be interested in such a script too
16:24 caroline we'll have to get back into it for 18.11 so I'll keep you updated
16:23 caroline called po-reuse.pl
16:22 caroline he says it's copied from another script that bernardo sent me
16:19 caroline oh no, let me check
16:18 tuxayo Have you had the occassion to take the temperature about publishing the script?
16:18 tuxayo So we are trying to make them work together like fr_FR and fr_CA :D
16:18 tuxayo The next day, we had a customer contacting us because they are working on completing the nl_NL translation. And we have another one working since few month on nl_BE
16:18 tuxayo caroline: BTW, our discussion about the script to make the replacements for fr_FR => fr_CA was in a perfect timing.
16:14 tuxayo Luckily my colleague wasn't fighting with centering once the barcode finally showed up.
16:13 caroline hehe! :)
16:13 tuxayo caroline: oh at least you are seeing it, lucky you :P
16:10 caroline I can't seem to center the barcode ... https://snag.gy/gqxtuf.jpg
16:09 tuxayo caroline: hi :) Few month ago, we've also got some tricky cases. In the end we weren't sure why things was working as expected... That's still dark magic to me.
16:06 * caroline hates configuring labels...
15:59 fridolin see u
15:59 fridolin yeeeeeeeeeeeees
15:56 koha-jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #123: FIXED in 28 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_17.11_D8/123/
15:56 koha-jenkins Yippee, build fixed!
15:33 fridolin jenkins should be clean now, i reverted the selenium test
15:14 cait if it conflicts i will sure have another look
15:14 cait heh ok
15:14 fridolin i push it and you may test ;)
15:14 fridolin ah ok that shoulb de enought
15:14 cait i think it shoudl work well because db structure is ok
15:13 cait i can try, but not right away
15:13 cait the fields in the db are all there in 17.11
15:13 fridolin i'm afraid of impacts
15:13 fridolin cait: oki, can you test it on 17.11.x please ?
15:12 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21282 major, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , Ordered/spent lists should use prices including tax for calculations
15:12 cait fridolin: bug 21282 is a bad bug
15:11 koha-jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #122: STILL UNSTABLE in 28 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_17.11_D8/122/
15:11 cait why can i search baskets i can#t access... and didn't this used to work?
14:46 cait maybe in acq, acq looks doable too
14:46 cait bit i think that won't work
14:46 cait limit everything but patrons :)
14:46 cait no
14:45 caroline So you want to limit staff access to other libraries records and users, but patrons can go to any library?
14:40 cait also editing only your own items depends on indybranches too...
14:40 cait but i don't want independentbraches... because all patrons can go anywhere
14:40 cait like superserials permission (to prevent editing other's subscriptions)
14:40 cait some of the featuers i would want are depending on independentbranches
14:39 cait hm yeah
14:28 caroline independentbranches would limit to 1 library, whereas with groups, you would be able to limit to the group (that's my understanding)
14:21 cait requirement here is 'can use any library'
14:21 cait so those users can only checkout checkin within their group?
14:21 caroline ok so libraries from the group can see the users (for example) from the libraries from the same group but not from other groups?
14:20 cait mostly wondering if it works better than indybranches
14:20 cait rtfm :D
14:20 caroline no, but I documented it
14:20 cait i am trying to write something up for a multi-branch setup and how you can see/not see others data
14:19 cait do you have used the new library group feature by chance?
14:19 cait mornign caroline!
14:15 Freddy_Enrique Yo caroline
14:10 caroline good morning!
14:09 Freddy_Enrique Thanks ashimema
14:06 cait i have questions about the new library groups faeature...
14:05 Freddy_Enrique wait... z39.50 and SRU...
14:05 Freddy_Enrique oleonard: ?
14:04 * ashimema rushes into a meeting
14:04 ashimema SRU is usually on standard HTTP ports so it hopefully isn't an issue
14:04 ashimema now that really depends on your OS and Firewall I'm afraid
14:03 oleonard Freddy_Enrique: Is it correct that you are trying to connect to an SRU server, not a Z39.50 server?
14:03 Freddy_Enrique But the info I put there is ok right?
14:03 ashimema er
14:03 Freddy_Enrique ashimema: oh... how could I check if an especific port is opened?
14:02 cait khall: around by chance?
14:02 Freddy_Enrique https://snag.gy/7mPCEp.jpg
14:02 Freddy_Enrique Just a.. no result window
13:59 oleonard Freddy_Enrique: Do you get an error message when you try to search it?
13:58 ashimema I tend to check firewalls when z doesn't work.. sometimes outgoing ports need to be opened
13:57 Freddy_Enrique But I can't seem to import any bib record from that database. Any reasons why?
13:56 Freddy_Enrique I have the following: https://snag.gy/mbI3VP.jpg
13:56 Freddy_Enrique I want to ask something concerning the z39.50
13:56 Freddy_Enrique Good morning guys, how are you all? :)
13:55 * ashimema looks at cait or kidclamp in the hopes one of them will catch that one ;)
13:54 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20968 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, andrew.isherwood, Pushed to Stable , Plugins: Add hooks to enable plugin integration into catalogue
13:53 ashimema seems a bug was introduced during the push of bug 20968 to master ;)
13:53 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21900 major, P5 - low, ---, andrew.isherwood, ASSIGNED , intranet_catalog_biblio_enhancements_toolbar_button plugin hook broken
13:53 ashimema anyone fancy a fast straigh to QA on bug 21900 ?
13:52 * ashimema blushes.. oops I caused that
13:52 ashimema kidclamp++
13:52 ashimema oh.. cool
13:52 cait he added a note to release maintainer notes about updating the release tools repo :)
13:52 * ashimema wonders what wiki update has happened now
13:52 ashimema ?
13:44 kidclamp heh
13:44 cait kidclamp++ wiki update :)
13:43 cait drojf++
13:35 koha-jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #121: STILL UNSTABLE in 32 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_17.11_D8/121/
13:29 tcohen Joubu++
13:28 tcohen koha++
13:28 tcohen kidclamp++
13:28 kidclamp jajm++
13:21 tcohen haha
13:21 tcohen and noticed
13:21 jajm cait, yep, with a lot of caffeine :)
13:21 tcohen in a bar
13:21 tcohen I bet he was drinking alcohol
13:20 tcohen jajm++
13:18 cait jajm++ late night fix? :)
13:17 ashimema they do seem to be getting better and better
13:17 cait and as always... best release ever :)
13:06 marcelr even posted on Thursday November 29th, 2018 !
13:04 cait koha_community++
13:04 cait kidclamp++
13:04 marcelr kidclamp++ # you made it
13:01 oleonard Congrats kidclamp
13:00 matts \o/
13:00 calire kidclamp++
12:59 ashimema koha++
12:58 wahanui o/`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
12:58 cait confetti!
12:58 wahanui o/`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
12:58 cait confetti!
12:58 ashimema woop woop
12:58 ashimema kidclamp++
12:58 kidclamp https://koha-community.org/koha-18-11-release/
12:55 tcohen hi marcelr
12:55 tcohen dersmon: changing use_zebra_faces changes get into action when you restart memcached
12:54 marcelr hi tcohen
12:54 tcohen morning
12:44 ashimema pleasure
12:43 cait ashimema++ thx!!
12:43 cait dersmon: try a zebra restart first
12:34 marcelr o/
12:33 kidclamp hi marcelr
12:32 marcelr hi #koha
12:26 wahanui hi oleopard
12:26 calire hi oleonard
12:26 oleonard Hi #koha
11:59 ashimema PQA both cait
11:49 endeto I don't have a static ip
11:49 endeto Hi everybody can anyone has a solution to access a pc with its hostname
11:41 koha-jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #120: STILL UNSTABLE in 32 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_17.11_D8/120/
11:31 dersmon so maybe i have to reindex?
11:31 dersmon running sudo koha-zebra --restart <instance name> does not seem to do the trick
11:30 dersmon <use_zebra_facets>0</use_zebra_facets>, right?
11:10 ashimema looks sane to me.. I'll give it a quick test and then PQA so long as it works
11:07 * ashimema looks
11:02 cait it already got a sign off form Mirko
11:02 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21895 blocker, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Signed Off , translations fail on upgrade to 18.11.00 (package installation)
11:02 cait ashimema: do you have some time to look at bug 21895 by chance?
10:56 cait 18.11 has some more bigger patches/changes
10:56 cait but i think most libraries using in production are using it with some additional devs that make their way in now
10:56 cait you will be using both in parallel atm, so yu can try it and switch back and forth
10:55 dersmon are you still using zebra or is switching to elastic search recommended?
10:55 cait maybe restart zebrasrv.. not sure if it's needed
10:54 dersmon i'll try it out :)
10:54 dersmon i see
10:54 dersmon facet max count is 20
10:52 cait should not require a reindex i think as it should fall back to the old code
10:52 cait yes, it's a setting in koha-conf.xml
10:52 cait we had to turn them off, it was not good
10:51 cait they have a severe performance isssue for bigger collections
10:51 fridolin its in koha-conf.xml
10:51 cait dersmon: make sure you are NOT using zebra facets
10:51 fridolin its mostly not searching that is long but more displaying the results
10:50 fridolin syspref FacetMaxCount will impact a lot
10:50 fridolin dersmon: depends a lot on how many results you display ? and do you use facets via Zebra ?
10:48 ashimema hehe
10:48 matts guy*
10:48 matts ashimema, my infrastructure will shout if it's not enough :)
10:47 ashimema do shout if you need any more
10:47 ashimema there's not much there.. but hopefully it's enough to help?
10:47 matts Thank you
10:47 matts ashimema++
10:44 ashimema I'll go and add some detail on the apache side on the linking page now too
10:44 ashimema matts.. I've updated the example Shibboleth2.xml file on the wiki.. it's the 'ApplicationOverride' section that's important
10:39 dersmon 8 cores, 8gb ram
10:37 dersmon quick question: searching "a" takes 1+ minutes for 1.2 million bibliographic records, is that within an expected range (using zebra)?
10:36 * ashimema is digging out stuff for you now
10:36 ashimema yup.. we have three customers running that way and Interleaf has another few (we support Interleaf for their koha hosting)
10:34 matts ashimema, that would be awesome !
10:34 ashimema I'll try and dig out an example and update the wiki
10:34 ashimema I'm sure we have.. but I tend to leave that to our infrastructure guys these days
10:34 ashimema hey matts
10:24 wahanui niihau, dersmon
10:24 dersmon hi
09:59 matts ( https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Shibboleth2.xml )
09:59 matts Currently, the example provided in the Koha documentation is only about the OPAC
09:58 matts Not on Koha's side, but on the SP's side
09:58 matts Did somebody manage to configure Shibboleth on both OPAC and Intranet ?
09:56 matts Hey everyone !
08:10 tuxayo Hi Koha
08:00 Archie^ good morning Koha!
07:59 alex_a bonjour
07:56 calire hi ashimema
07:47 ashimema Mornin' #koha
07:41 wahanui bidet, fridolin
07:41 fridolin hi
07:40 wahanui hey, reiveune
07:40 reiveune hello
06:49 ashimema I'll look at this today tcohen
04:16 mtompset I have some other project to get done before bed. No promises. ;)
04:15 tcohen :-D
04:15 tcohen if you sign it, you can add his
04:15 tcohen his devbox was causing him some trouble I think
04:15 tcohen hi tried, a couple times
04:15 tcohen he didn't manage to
04:14 mtompset BTW, he forgot to put "Signed off" in the footer of the details.
04:13 tcohen thanks mtompset
04:13 tcohen bedtime
04:13 tcohen ok, too late
04:11 tcohen instead of debit+ credit
04:11 tcohen i.e. debit - credit
04:11 tcohen I prefer to notice the minus sign when reading the code
04:11 tcohen I hate storing negative values, and summing them up in the code
04:11 mtompset because you passed ALL the ods.
04:10 tcohen it happens to me, when it is related to signs in the accounts code
04:10 mtompset it's impossible to get back to a remaining balance AND the same credit not paid off.
04:10 mtompset just had to think it out.
04:09 mtompset I was wrong...
04:09 tcohen is irrelevant, but the while condition (outstanding_debits.total_outstanding > 0) will make it exit
04:09 mtompset if not all od is used up, then c1 must be paid off, so next is okay.
04:09 tcohen and another librarian adding infinite credits
04:09 mtompset so as much od is used up to cover C1... if all od is used up... it finishes... and the next on credits is irrelevant...
04:08 tcohen to keep the loop running
04:08 tcohen but they will need to do it for an infinite time
04:08 tcohen he
04:08 tcohen if the mad librarian adds fees fast enough, it can break it
04:07 mtompset od is passed.
04:07 mtompset ahhh....
04:06 mtompset credit is C1...
04:06 mtompset od = (D1..Dn), oc = (C1..Cn)
04:06 tcohen add a followup patch with a regression test then
04:05 mtompset because I think one exists.
04:05 mtompset let me think of a test case which breaks this...
04:05 tcohen if it doesn't, it moves to $credits->next
04:05 tcohen then it quits the looop, right
04:04 tcohen the total_outstanding amount will be 0
04:04 mtompset that outstanding debt drops off.
04:04 tcohen if it pays everything, then when outstanding_debits is 'refreshed'
04:04 tcohen it tries to...
04:04 tcohen it pays all outstanding debits or it doesn't
04:04 mtompset so the entire debit is used up?
04:03 tcohen there are two options
04:03 tcohen in a single call
04:03 tcohen that single credit
04:03 tcohen it is applied to all outstanding debits
04:03 mtompset You only set outstanding credits once.
04:03 tcohen $credit->apply({ debits => $self->outstanding_debits });
04:02 tcohen no
04:02 mtompset you would need to call normalize again to actually hopefully normalize it.
04:01 tcohen outstanding_credits returns all the accountlines (for the patron) that represent credits, and still have some amount outstanding
04:01 mtompset But what if the debit didn't fully eliminate the credit?
04:01 mtompset You keep going to ->next.
04:00 mtompset what does outstanding_credits return?
04:00 mtompset The issue is the normalize function itself.
04:00 mtompset your tests make sense. that's not the issue.
03:59 mtompset I'm confused about it.
03:59 mtompset I'm looking at your code...
03:58 tcohen yes, I think that's how it should be implemented
03:55 mtompset The other possibility would be triggering it after an accountline is written.
03:53 tcohen I thought about the cronjob too
03:52 tcohen hehe
03:52 tcohen the question is when and how it should be applied
03:52 tcohen simple indeed
03:52 tcohen the method is sumple
03:52 huginn Bug 21896: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , Add Koha::Account::normalize_balance
03:52 tcohen bug https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=21896
03:52 mtompset It doesn't have to apply in order. :)
03:51 mtompset If excess, repeat process.
03:51 mtompset find the smallest remaining debit, apply as much of credit as possible.
03:50 mtompset This application is really better suited to a cronjob. ;)
03:48 mtompset and then n+1 comes along....
03:48 mtompset so (A1,AO1)...(An,AOn) in account lines.... some credits, some debits...
03:46 tcohen how do you apply the credit?
03:45 tcohen you lost a book, a processing fee was charged too, some fine, and then something else
03:45 tcohen now imagine you have several 'debts'
03:45 mtompset yes, but sum(amount) should equal sum(amount outstanding)
03:45 tcohen it took a while
03:45 tcohen hehe
03:45 tcohen ok, that's the answer to my question about your opinion
03:44 mtompset that would be what I expected as soon as the -2 was entered.
03:44 tcohen the 'amount' is not that important, it is just tracking the 'original amount'
03:44 mtompset okay... 5,3 and -2,0 got it.
03:44 tcohen and you have an outstanding debt of 3 canadian dollars
03:43 tcohen so, you have no outstanding credit
03:43 tcohen and the amount outstanding for the credit will be set to 0
03:43 tcohen then the amount outstanding for the fine, will be set to 3
03:43 tcohen lets say you use that 2 dollars credit, to cancel a part of the fine
03:42 tcohen and likewise for the credit
03:42 tcohen what you owe, you read it on the fine accountline, in the amountoutstanding column
03:42 tcohen is the difference between what you owe and the credit you have
03:42 mtompset hence 5,x and -2,y
03:42 tcohen your account balance
03:41 tcohen so
03:41 mtompset Yes.
03:41 tcohen amount is the original amount of the account line
03:41 mtompset (don't understand why, but okay)
03:41 tcohen two account lines
03:41 mtompset so it is 5,5 and -2,-2
03:41 tcohen s
03:41 tcohen two accountline
03:40 mtompset right... but we have 4 values amount and amount outstanding for 2 lines.
03:40 tcohen 1 for the fine, 1 for the manual credit you requested to be added
03:40 tcohen so far we only have 2 accountlines, not 4
03:40 tcohen amountoutstanding=-2
03:40 tcohen amount=-2
03:40 mtompset sure... so, what are the 4 account line values?
03:39 tcohen at that point a new account line was created
03:39 tcohen you have 2 on your side
03:39 tcohen that's represented internally as -2, but leave alone data models
03:39 tcohen then the librarian adds a manual credit of 2
03:38 tcohen let me finish
03:38 tcohen then you say: I would like to add this two dollars to my account as a credit
03:38 mtompset (gotta love toonies)
03:37 tcohen in your pocket
03:37 tcohen you notice you have a 2 canadian dollars (coin?)
03:37 mtompset (except for the fines)
03:37 mtompset so far so good.
03:37 tcohen and amountoutstanding=5 (you owe the fine in full)
03:37 tcohen amount=5 (the fine is 5 canadian dollars)
03:36 tcohen with two relevant values
03:36 tcohen will have 1 accountline
03:36 tcohen in Koha, the patron representing you
03:36 mtompset (with that many cats, wouldn't they be?)
03:36 tcohen by a mad librarian
03:35 tcohen say you get fined
03:35 tcohen you are mixing concepts and it gets messy
03:35 mtompset okay...
03:35 mtompset or is it -5, -5 then -5, and both -10?
03:35 tcohen let me be the one presenting the example
03:35 mtompset no amount outstanding.
03:35 tcohen offsets again…
03:34 wahanui i already had it that way, mtompset.
03:34 mtompset -5 account line is ao: -5
03:34 tcohen that's 4 account lines
03:34 mtompset -5 account line is ao: -5
03:34 mtompset so -5, -5, +15, -5
03:34 mtompset account line.
03:34 tcohen keep the word 'transaction' out
03:33 mtompset The amount of the transaction left?
03:33 mtompset What value is in the amount outstanding column?
03:32 tcohen about
03:32 tcohen talking
03:32 tcohen you
03:32 tcohen are
03:32 tcohen what
03:31 mtompset someone mixed logic.
03:31 mtompset OOOOO! I just noticed that in the account lines.
03:31 tcohen and reducing the amount outstanding (modulo the sign) of the credit too (i.e. you don't have the credit available for applying anymore)
03:30 tcohen applying a credit means reducing the amount outstanding on the debit it was applied to
03:30 tcohen right?
03:30 tcohen no matter if the action is logged in the account_offsets table
03:30 tcohen that's applying the credit, to reduce the amount outstanding on the debit line
03:29 tcohen but that's not offsets per-se
03:29 mtompset because the +15 needs to get SPLIT.
03:29 tcohen mtompset: why mention offsets again :-D
03:29 tcohen you need to 'apply the credit to the debt'
03:28 mtompset so offset as a -5 +15 reference.
03:28 tcohen even when they have credit on their account
03:28 tcohen that the (patron's) debt still has an amount outstanding
03:28 mtompset Right, but the problem is the number of credits and debits don't match.
03:28 tcohen but the important part of it is
03:28 mtompset nope, I guess I don't... I don't even understand why we have them.
03:28 tcohen I mean, a side effect of applying a credit to a debit is that some offset(s) will be recorded
03:27 tcohen actually
03:27 tcohen but the matter is not about offsets at all
03:27 tcohen you don't understand what account offsets are I think
03:27 tcohen no
03:26 tcohen of course
03:26 mtompset but account offset only would have one entry, right?
03:26 tcohen right
03:26 mtompset I would expect balance = 0
03:25 mtompset so account line is -5, -5, +15... and a -5 comes along?
03:24 mtompset patron owes (-), patron pays (+)
03:24 mtompset but let's say owe and pay.
03:24 mtompset depends on who if you are the one owing or the one to whom it is owed. ;)
03:23 tcohen credit is green, debit is red
03:22 mtompset credit is good for patron, bad for library -- negative?
03:22 tcohen owe and pay maybe?
03:22 mtompset okay... can we make this sign based, rather than credit/debit, because it's confusing in my brain for some reason.
03:21 tcohen to reduce the outstanding debit amount?
03:21 tcohen do you expect the credit to be applied automatically?
03:21 tcohen and you get charged someting (a new debit)
03:20 tcohen if you have an outstanding credit for some reason
03:20 tcohen the problem is
03:20 mtompset just a moment.
03:20 tcohen and you will see how it actually works :-d
03:20 tcohen you can read the tests for Koha::Account::Line->apply
03:20 wahanui i guess the problem is it has several code issues
03:20 mtompset What's the problem?
03:19 tcohen well, that's not actually the problem
03:19 mtompset if debit > credit 1.
03:19 tcohen an offset is recorded
03:19 mtompset Yes, but the problem is account offset gets ugly fast.
03:19 tcohen then if you apply a credit to pay up (to some extent maybe) the debit
03:19 tcohen you create a debit, then a third acccount line and an account offset
03:18 tcohen and each accountline creation is also logged as an account offset (of type 'manual_credit' or the like)
03:18 tcohen you have two accountlines
03:18 tcohen if you add two manual credits
03:18 tcohen dont do it
03:18 tcohen no
03:17 mtompset hmm... let me review the schema.
03:17 mtompset shouldn't change.
03:17 tcohen and every thing that is applied, is logged as an account offset
03:17 mtompset Yes... account line isn't changing.
03:17 mtompset then perhaps I am not understanding.
03:17 tcohen every debit/credit added is recorded as an account line
03:17 tcohen you are mixing stuffs
03:17 tcohen hey
03:16 mtompset But if you wish to build a report table from it... then it should be applied at build time.
03:15 mtompset And we shouldn't do it at entry time... too easy to mess up data. every transaction should be recorded.
03:15 mtompset If we are storing every transaction and type... the application is not done at entry time.
03:14 mtompset well, how will it be stored?
03:12 tcohen the question is should this be automatically done
03:12 tcohen what I'm saying is that outstanding credits are expected to be applied to outstanding debits, no matter if they complete the amount outstanding or not
03:10 mtompset so we have charge amount, and outstanding amount, and the outstanding amount represents the applied debits inclusive?
03:10 mtompset Are you saying don't record the debit of v3, but reduce the credit of v1 and v2 by an appropriate break down of v3?
03:09 mtompset what do you mean by automatically normalized? if we have two recorded credits of v1 and v2 and a recorded debit of v3... the balance is v1+v2-v3 (or the negative, I mess signs up frequently)
03:06 mtompset Hmmm....
03:06 mtompset Sorry... got distracted, tcohen.
01:47 tcohen hi mtompset, I've been fighting the idea that balance should be automatically normalized (i.e. outstanding credits applied to outstanding debits) and I noticed people actually expect that
01:31 mtompset tcohen, what do you mean accounts?
01:28 tcohen hi alexbuckley
01:28 tcohen anyone willing to talk about accounts?
01:02 * kidclamp waves and goes
00:52 mtompset Greetings, CrispyBran tcohen kidclamp cait rangi ashimema
00:51 mtompset Greetings again, #koha. Back at keyboard. :)
00:43 kidclamp Jajm++