Time Nick Message 22:55 jenkins Project Koha_16.11_D8 build #100: SUCCESS in 3 hr 14 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_16.11_D8/100/ 22:15 cait hi kathryn:) 22:11 kathryn modular coat sounds like a cool idea 22:10 kathryn nm, night nigtht! 22:10 eythian It was made by Canadians 22:10 eythian kathryn: oh, it came with it, it's removable 22:09 * eythian is right about to go to bed however 22:09 kathryn I am impressed you lined your own coat 22:09 eythian kathryn: hi! 22:09 kathryn and hi cait 22:09 kathryn hi eythian! :) 22:09 eythian Instead, I added a lining to my winter coat to make biking to work a bit nicer. 22:08 eythian Mph, and "lows in the upper teens" sounds pretty nice about now. 21:59 cait hm? 21:57 eythian I wish that used readable units 21:57 huginn eythian: Amsterdam, Netherlands :: Partly Cloudy :: 27F/-3C | Wind Chill: 17F/-8C | Monday: Partly cloudy. Lows overnight in the upper teens. Monday Night: Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Hard freeze expected. Low 19F. Winds ENE at 10 to 15 mph. 21:57 eythian @wunder Amsterdam 21:52 huginn cait: Konstanz, Germany :: Mostly Cloudy :: 16F/-9C | Wind Chill: 5F/-15C | Monday: Partly cloudy. Lows overnight in the low teens. Monday Night: Bitterly cold. Partly to mostly cloudy. Low 12F. Winds NE at 10 to 15 mph. 21:52 cait @wunder Konstanz 21:52 janPasi_ night! :) 21:52 m23_kohaCZ good night 21:52 josef_moravec good night! 21:52 Radius_CZ good night to everyone involved 21:51 m23_kohaCZ thank to Josef for chair and all for useful debate 21:51 cait josef_moravec++ 21:51 Radius_CZ let's vote again 21:51 josef_moravec ok, I'll make a poll 21:50 cait voting sounds good 21:50 janPasi_ 20:00 UTC is so so late... ;D 21:50 cait eythian: i am not sure it is... given that we are just starting :) 21:50 eythian If it's any consolation, GDPR work at $employer has been going on for over a year now. 21:50 m23_kohaCZ 20:00 UTC? 21:49 josef_moravec 19. 3. 2018? 21:49 m23_kohaCZ can we vote for date again? 21:49 Radius_CZ ok 21:49 cait which date? 21:49 josef_moravec so in 3 weeks? same time? 21:49 m23_kohaCZ 3 weeks? 21:49 janPasi_ cait: probably a good idea 21:49 Radius_CZ +1 21:49 josef_moravec cait: could be useful, 21:49 m23_kohaCZ agreed 21:48 cait to keep tabs on progress? 21:48 cait should we try and have another in a month or so? 21:48 josef_moravec thank to all! 21:48 m23_kohaCZ but VERY useful 21:48 Radius_CZ thank you all! 21:48 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2018/gdpr_irc_meeting_26_february_2018.2018-02-26-19.04.log.html 21:48 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2018/gdpr_irc_meeting_26_february_2018.2018-02-26-19.04.txt 21:48 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2018/gdpr_irc_meeting_26_february_2018.2018-02-26-19.04.html 21:48 huginn Meeting ended Mon Feb 26 21:48:29 2018 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 21:48 josef_moravec #endmeeting 21:48 m23_kohaCZ GDPR marathon 21:48 josef_moravec so 21:48 josef_moravec agree, I am sleepy 21:48 Radius_CZ it's late enough ;-) 21:48 josef_moravec cait++ 21:48 m23_kohaCZ exhausted too 21:48 cait exhausted :) 21:47 josef_moravec Anybody anything? Or are we too exhausted after this meeting? 21:47 josef_moravec #topic General discussion, questions, and answers about General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and Koha 21:47 josef_moravec moving on 21:47 josef_moravec ;) 21:47 josef_moravec I think 21:47 m23_kohaCZ bye 21:47 josef_moravec eythian: that's the plan 21:47 m23_kohaCZ bey 21:47 cait enjoyyour tea :) 21:46 Radius_CZ bye :) 21:46 greenjimll Rightio... I've got to go: bye everyone! 21:46 * eythian would have a set of privacy sysprefs that control this stuff plus some documentation. 21:45 Radius_CZ I understand it, but I see s problem for "common" Koha admin who needs to know ho to comply with GDPR 21:45 greenjimll Some more handy Apache GDPR log config ideas: https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2017/08/28/integrating-gdpr/ 21:45 janPasi_ Radius_CZ: it will be picked up by the logrotate the next time it gets run (from cron.daily typically) 21:44 janPasi_ Radius_CZ: basically you just link or copy the logrotate script under /etc/logrotate.d, so not that difficult 21:43 Radius_CZ well, I meant we need some kind of documentation at least or will it be a default setup? 21:43 josef_moravec yes, logrotate is ran by cron ;) 21:43 josef_moravec Radius_CZ: why cronjob, if you have logrotate? 21:43 janPasi_ Radius_CZ: well, technically logrotate works with cron, so yes 21:42 Radius_CZ yes, will this be implemented ina cronjob? 21:42 josef_moravec something more to this topic? 21:42 josef_moravec #action janPasi_ will investigate how to remove/mask IP from older log when logrotate 21:42 greenjimll Don't forget its not just IPv4 addresses that will need masking but IPv6 ones too. 21:41 * eythian resumes lurking 21:41 janPasi_ *at the moment (damned) 21:41 janPasi_ i'm working with logrotate at them moment for our koha, so i can look into that a bit 21:40 eythian Yeah, but a script log rotate calls can do it 21:40 Radius_CZ Citation: I don't think logrotate will do it; you may need to look at creating a script that will decompress the files, process them through awk or sed to strip the IP's out, then recompress them. Just can't do it on "active" log files. 21:40 Radius_CZ https://serverfault.com/questions/358398/how-do-i-remove-ip-addresses-from-log-files 21:40 eythian janPasi: compress them after the mask time, or decompress/recompress 21:40 janPasi_ or you'd have to have the postrotate first decompress, then rewrite and then compress them again 21:40 josef_moravec ok 21:40 eythian I doubt I'll get the chance. Not really doing Koha stuff atm 21:39 janPasi_ you can't really compress the logs on rotate then 21:39 josef_moravec eythian: would you mind to investigate it more? ;) 21:38 eythian Exactly what I was thinking 21:38 josef_moravec maybe some postrotate script? 21:38 janPasi_ that would be perfect 21:38 eythian Not an expert, but probably 21:38 josef_moravec eythian: it would be ideal ;) 21:38 janPasi_ eythian: do you think that could be done with logrotate? 21:37 * eythian wonders about a logrotate config that masks the IP addresses after say a week 21:37 janPasi_ *may make it difficult 21:37 janPasi_ but if the ip addresses are masked, it may make it to identify the attacks 21:37 m23_kohaCZ we should declare reason and time frame, and delete logs after 21:37 cait maybe a sysadmin thing again that needs some docs and recommendations on the wiki? 21:36 josef_moravec so then it is necessary ;) 21:36 janPasi_ yep 21:36 cait like identify a possible attack 21:35 cait but on need to keep them longer than strictly necessary? 21:35 cait i think it might be ok to keep logs short term for it security reasons 21:35 janPasi_ follow up question would be, should this be the default? ;D 21:35 cait thx! 21:34 greenjimll Thank Mr Google. :-) 21:34 janPasi_ ok, thanks greenjimll :) 21:34 greenjimll Yes: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19452624/apply-a-mask-to-ip-with-logformat 21:34 janPasi_ yep, i mean is it possible to hide ip-addresses and such from apache logs 21:34 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded. 21:34 eythian @later tell wizzyrea https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/80a77o/aucklands_worldbeating_library_fines/ 21:33 cait ip-masking? 21:33 janPasi_ does apache have any kind of ip-masking options for the logs? 21:33 cait heh 21:33 greenjimll Though I should point out that that blog doesn't have a cookie warning and does have third party tracking cookies. :-) 21:32 m23_kohaCZ thx for link, interesting 21:31 greenjimll Some (hopefully relevant) info: https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/gdpr-web-server-logs 21:30 josef_moravec #topic wiki page record 14 21:30 cait yep 21:30 m23_kohaCZ move on 21:30 josef_moravec anybody something to add, to can we move on? 21:29 josef_moravec good idea cait 21:28 cait we have a patron attribute in one of hte libraries 'signed registration form?' - maybe something like this for the manual option 21:27 cait not sure what works best legally 21:27 cait when they first log in to have them accept 21:27 cait you could add something to the patron account 21:27 josef_moravec but new letter system use template toolkit so could be printed or presented as web page I think 21:26 m23_kohaCZ <Radius_CZ: But it should be electronical too, like for self-registration 21:25 Radius_CZ This should be printed as a letter, I think. Similarly to patron's issue list. At least during administrative registration process. 21:25 josef_moravec But for self-registration and public libraries, it could be very useful 21:25 greenjimll Yes to optional step. 21:25 greenjimll And in the case of our users, its something they sign up to when they join the Uni, so no need for a separate sign up when they start to use the library. 21:24 cait so an optional step in the workflow with the option to add custom text and log 21:24 m23_kohaCZ agrred 21:24 cait yep i'd say so 21:24 greenjimll I would assume that the content is something that each organisation will need to create or at least customise? 21:24 cait and maybe an option to document signature from staff client? 21:24 janPasi_ isn't that sort of responsibility of libraries? 21:23 m23_kohaCZ Cait propably just some content in OPAC 21:23 cait ok, should be tied in with self registration 21:23 cait is this about generating the content for hte page or just a way to have a page in the OPAC? 21:22 cait #topic Wiki page record 13 21:22 m23_kohaCZ #13? 21:22 cait t 21:20 greenjimll 21:20 and I've not had my tea yet. :-) 21:20 cait yes let's move on 21:20 cait so i see what you mean 21:19 cait it's 10pm here... :) 21:19 cait heh 21:19 greenjimll So is 11 and 12 under way anyway then (he says looking at his watch and feeling his tummy rumbling. :-) ) 21:19 Joubu form_serialized is the elements you filled in the adv search 21:18 Joubu bib_list is the list of bibnumber in the basket/cart 21:18 cait of course the best is if we can stick to cookies that don't require us to ask permission 21:17 cait and bib_list...? 21:17 cait i think it#s going back to your last opac search maybe 21:17 cait i have not identified yet what form_serialized does 21:16 cait more worried about the extra features 21:16 cait i think session cookies are safe 21:16 greenjimll Oops - slipped a ] at the end. Try: http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm 21:16 cait hm link is not working from above 21:15 cait i have not identified all yet - it's hard 21:15 cait greenjimll: i just started documenting them 21:15 greenjimll cait: many of the OPAC cookies fall into those categories it seems to me. 21:15 cait thx for the links btw 21:15 greenjimll cait: specifically the bit on "Cookies clearly exempt from consent according to the EU advisory body on data protection- WP29 include:" 21:14 greenjimll cait: see http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm] 21:14 josef_moravec cait: I agree, if we can solve it for "everyone" at once, it is more effective way to do it 21:14 cait non-exempt? 21:14 greenjimll Which of the OPAC cookies are non-exempt though? 21:13 cait a lot of libraries are affected by this and again: translations 21:13 cait and i think soemthing in Koha is better 21:13 cait we use the Koha OPAC 21:12 Radius_CZ josef_moravec: I like the idea of linking library website with a cookies wiki page 21:12 greenjimll See section on exempt cookies: http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm 21:12 josef_moravec m23_kohaCZ: with an warning that something will not work then, right? 21:11 m23_kohaCZ anf if we store some cookies, we should provede some easy tool (link) for delete this from patron computer 21:11 greenjimll Lots of Koha cookies are exempt cookies anyway (session id, language, etc). 21:11 josef_moravec libraries shoud probably have a page on website with this documentation, so thay can link here 21:10 m23_kohaCZ wiki page is very useful, but with some JS for presentation for patron in OAPC will be great 21:09 josef_moravec we too ;) 21:09 greenjimll Good point - we use VuFind with Koha rather than the OPAC UI. 21:08 josef_moravec jso the discussion here is - do we need something to develop in koha? Or is wiki page ok and we leave it on libraries? 21:08 janPasi_ which will soon be abandoned as we have a new opac based on vufind 21:08 cait not just inform them 21:08 cait i think you might need opt-in 21:07 cait it's turning into something horrible 21:07 janPasi_ that works 21:07 cait I've started to document our cookies: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Use_of_Cookies 21:07 josef_moravec m23_kohaCZ? 21:07 janPasi_ we've just added a bit of javascript to opacuserjs 21:07 josef_moravec greenjimll: exactly! ;) 21:07 josef_moravec I think we need a short notice about cookies and personal data management with link to page with documentation about using personal data. 21:07 greenjimll Ah, the annoying cookie banners that nearly everyone just ignores or clicks through. :-) 21:06 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page record 11 and 12 21:05 josef_moravec #action josef_moravec will add a short comment to bug report 20028 about this 21:05 josef_moravec ok, moving on 21:05 m23_kohaCZ ok, Josef? 21:04 greenjimll So looks like RESTful API with JSON will do that. 21:03 greenjimll (that's from: http://ec.europa.eu/information_society/newsroom/image/document/2016-51/wp242_annex_en_40854.pdf) 21:03 greenjimll Interface. 21:03 greenjimll This could for example be implemented by making available an Application Programming 21:03 greenjimll second, they should allow data subjects to directly transmit the data to another data controller. 21:03 greenjimll First, data controllers should offer a direct download opportunity for the data subject and, 21:03 Radius_CZ JSON or XML, CSV does not offer as good structure as those two 21:02 m23_kohaCZ agreed 21:02 cait agreed 21:02 greenjimll "You must provide the personal data in a structured, commonly used and machine readable form." I'd say JSON is pretty commonly used. 21:01 m23_kohaCZ GDPR dont specify format, but CSV, XML or JSON will be great 21:01 greenjimll CSV explicitly mentioned there (ICO is the UK Gov's body that is handling GDPR) 21:00 greenjimll https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-the-general-data-protection-regulation-gdpr/individual-rights/right-to-data-portability/ 21:00 cait something obvious 21:00 cait m23_kohaCZ: true, but still might have to provide an easy enough way to get it 20:59 m23_kohaCZ Cait: GDPR talk abotu machine format 20:59 cait and we have the goethe institute now... i like buttons in templates that can be translated 20:59 cait janPasi_: i am all for it - just thnk we need to make sure it's easy enough to make us comply 20:58 josef_moravec just a bit to set a mime type and so 20:58 janPasi_ cait: it gives you json output on the browser though, just save it and you have a file 20:58 m23_kohaCZ API poitn will be great, beuase it can be used in other systems like VuFind for example 20:58 cait i haven't checked if there are requirement sin the law besides machine-readable 20:58 cait but json doesn't give you a file, so a bit of code is needed 20:58 janPasi_ button can simply access that endpoint then 20:58 josef_moravec I woud base it on REST API, you can reuse it in staff client, opac, standalone access... and does generate JSON, we just will probably need to filter out some data - like database ids 20:58 cait not a lot of code clutter 20:57 cait if we have the endpoint, a button with a prf is easy? 20:57 greenjimll A REST endpoint would seem ideal. We provide the service but don't clutter the UI for 99.9% of users that won't need it. 20:57 cait janPasi: I think you need a 'button' 20:57 janPasi_ vomit out "everything" as json via rest-endpoint? 20:56 cait which is a major flaw 20:56 cait and also plugins are not translatable 20:56 cait we should avoid a solution that requires local changes 20:56 cait josno nice way to integrate plugins into the opac right now 20:56 janPasi_ why not provide the patron him/herself with access to her/his data directly via rest? 20:56 greenjimll Koha Take Out(tm). 20:55 m23_kohaCZ so, mlutilanguague GDPR plugin? 20:55 Radius_CZ yes, plugin with JSON export to a file 20:55 josef_moravec it is more flexible 20:55 josef_moravec greenjimll: agree 20:55 greenjimll JSON would be more extensible in the future. 20:55 josef_moravec and should be machine readable so JSON or CSV 20:54 Radius_CZ I would vote for a plugin ;-) 20:54 josef_moravec greenjimll: ;) 20:54 greenjimll loans that have been anonymised... oh, er, no. :-) 20:54 josef_moravec yes, that's what i think is he way, but the main problem really is to define what should be in the export 20:54 m23_kohaCZ holds, payments.... 20:54 cait if you take it serious, it's a lot of tables to be checked for the patron number 20:53 cait ratings, reviews, checkouts, comments, address changes... 20:53 cait the problem is mkaing sure you include all data 20:53 cait agreed 20:53 m23_kohaCZ #10 cna be like new button on patron detail or some plugin 20:53 josef_moravec cait: it is not very useful but needed by GDPR as I think 20:53 cait if you take this serious, there is a lot of tables involved 20:53 janPasi_ rest api endpoint? 20:53 cait a way to export all your data from somewher ein the patron account? 20:52 cait i don't think it will be useful for anyone... but we have been asked about it already 20:51 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page report 10 20:51 m23_kohaCZ agree 20:50 josef_moravec #action more investigatin of 2FA needed, we will collect information on bug reports 20:50 cait m23_kohaCZ: we used one for all i think... but that's not ideal 20:49 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19887 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Two Factor Authentication: Google Authenticator 20:49 josef_moravec bug 19887 20:49 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19886 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Two Factor Authentication: Yubikey 20:49 josef_moravec bug 19886 20:49 m23_kohaCZ I agree with Cait 20:49 cait i thnk we need to gather some more ideas, maybe on the bug? 20:49 m23_kohaCZ is it useful on shared staff pCs? 20:48 cait :) 20:48 josef_moravec at least more then nothing ;) 20:47 cait hm that's not too bad 20:46 josef_moravec https://screenshots.firefox.com/7IYEz32V51HxxHEK/hea.koha-community.org 20:45 cait client certificates could be good, but maybe koha supporting them not via apache only 20:45 m23_kohaCZ we've some bug about 2fa 20:45 cait i noticed koha has AllowPKIAuth - someone used this? 20:44 Radius_CZ +1 for 2FA 20:44 m23_kohaCZ 2fa is very useful aditional security option 20:44 josef_moravec hm, looks really interesting 20:44 m23_kohaCZ privacyIDEA is cool 20:44 josef_moravec so definitely some 2fa needed? 20:43 cait so having another option as well would be good 20:43 josef_moravec I think we need also to somehow restrict the database user, when it is not needed after installation 20:43 Radius_CZ that's right 20:43 cait some smaller libraries don't have static ips 20:42 Radius_CZ the IP restrictions using apache configuration setup to allow whitelist seems also good to me. we shuld prepare some wiki howto as well. 20:42 greenjimll cait: Works with UbiKeys as well. :-) 20:42 cait greenjimll: interesting 20:41 josef_moravec cait: good idea 20:41 cait i know a lot of kohas are still publicly available 20:41 greenjimll Single sign on can use 2FA - we've linked our development IdP to a test privacyIDEA server (https://www.privacyidea.org/) 20:41 cait i think improving autolocation could be a start 20:41 m23_kohaCZ whats about some IP whitelist? 20:40 cait single sign on might not qualify then -it's just pw 20:39 cait and I think it might have problems with plack - but not sure 20:39 greenjimll 2FA can mean lots of things. For example might be username+password, plus SMS code sent to phone (bad) or USB crypto dongle code (good) 20:39 josef_moravec you could combine 2fa and ip restriction 20:39 cait not sure, we are trying to get rid of it actually 20:39 m23_kohaCZ Cait: can you publish some tips on wiki? 20:39 cait 2f is combination of knowledge and possession, correct? 20:38 cait we have used client certificates + apache configuration for one customer - but it's no easy to maintain 20:38 greenjimll Should 2FA be handled through the web server or similar services (eg single sign on IdPs)? 20:38 josef_moravec again maybe more for sysadmins 20:37 josef_moravec staff client access restrictin 20:37 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page record 9 20:36 josef_moravec moving on 20:36 josef_moravec But if you wan't to enhance it, you could make a patch ;) 20:36 Radius_CZ ok then 20:36 josef_moravec Radius_CZ: Just like other cronjobs, just the information it was run 20:35 Radius_CZ what info do we need to log concernign backups? 20:35 josef_moravec moving on? 20:34 josef_moravec Yes would be easy, i see it now, but still better to do it in perl - better not to access database directly with sql, but use the koha code 20:33 Joubu janPasi_: nope, but certainly easier in perl, and could be reuse 20:33 josef_moravec Joubu: it does make sense, and will be easy 20:33 janPasi_ that shouldn't be too hard with *sh either 20:32 Joubu You can write a misc script in perl you will call from the koha-* scripts 20:32 janPasi_ you mean log running them in the database? 20:30 josef_moravec s/Are/Or/ 20:30 josef_moravec Are make a REST API endpoint? 20:29 Joubu rewrite koha-* scripts in perl, it will be easy then ;) 20:29 josef_moravec I have no idea how to do it yet ;) 20:28 josef_moravec Logging of koha-* scripts, we now log just perl cronjobs 20:27 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page record 8 20:27 cait move on? 20:27 josef_moravec cait: yes 20:27 cait josef_moravec: make it optional like storing the last user? 20:26 m23_kohaCZ move on? 20:26 josef_moravec #action josef_moravec fill a bug 20:26 * Joubu needs to set his paranoid mode on 20:26 josef_moravec It is not so easy, when you start thinking about it... 20:26 greenjimll File a bug/enhancement then? 20:25 Joubu :) 20:25 josef_moravec janPasi_: maybe ;) 20:25 janPasi_ josef_moravec: it will probably be easy to guess that from plain age too, we have such villages also ;) 20:24 josef_moravec Joubu: imagine small village with 100 people, it is easy to know who it was, and we have many libraries in these villages here... 20:23 Joubu ok 20:23 Joubu yes but you do not know who 20:23 cait too eay to figure out who it was 20:23 Joubu if it is not linked with other info 20:23 cait Joubu: it's a sensitive data 20:22 cait filling the column could be optional 20:22 Joubu maybe I am completely out of context here but we could keep the date of birth on anonymizing a record 20:22 cait the age is not important for the academics so much, but for the public libraries 20:22 m23_kohaCZ I agree with Josef 20:22 cait i know that another system is also using this approach 20:22 greenjimll Might be of use in other countries too (I'm thinking public libraries more than Universities) 20:22 cait we'd be interested in it too 20:22 josef_moravec janPasi_: coud be, but I think it would be useful for others too 20:21 m23_kohaCZ because no all instalation in CZ use KohaCZ package 20:21 josef_moravec #action josef_moravec file bug for adding age to statistics table 20:21 m23_kohaCZ I vote for add it into master Koha 20:20 janPasi_ josef_moravec: can't it be done locally in czech koha installations? 20:20 m23_kohaCZ easy to implement it, but local use 20:20 greenjimll Sounds reasonable - could it just be an enhancement bug? 20:19 josef_moravec There is proposal of adding an age column to statistics table, for us it is very important, especialy when we remove date of birth during anonymization as discussed in one of previous topics 20:17 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page record 7 20:17 josef_moravec Conclusion - start with a wiki page, it is enough for now, as it is a system admin responsibility 20:17 Joubu but yeah, move on, I will comment on the bug ) 20:16 Joubu and will not use a possible --encrypt flag they do not know what it does 20:16 greenjimll Joubu: that's sounds like the best idea to me. 20:16 magnuse sorry, i gotta run, will read the log 20:16 Joubu if it is the point, but I am sure good sysadmins will use their own workflow 20:16 Joubu you can create a wiki page to explain people how to excrypt their dump 20:15 m23_kohaCZ we need this option :-) 20:15 janPasi_ good conclusion :D 20:15 greenjimll Its complicated. :-) 20:15 Joubu what's the conclusion? 20:15 greenjimll Yes 20:15 m23_kohaCZ yeah 20:14 josef_moravec moving on? 20:14 cait greenjimll: we might just be misunderstanding each other 20:14 josef_moravec just for interest https://mysqldump-secure.org/ 20:13 josef_moravec janPasi_: true 20:13 m23_kohaCZ but for GDPR point of view its protection for privat data stored on backup drive 20:13 janPasi_ which would kind of defeat the purpose 20:12 janPasi_ you'd need somekind of public-key encryption for it to make any sense, otherwise you'd have to store the password somewere to automate dumping 20:12 greenjimll Its not the use: its the import/export. But I'll give up now. :-) 20:12 m23_kohaCZ encrypt is option, if its not legal in some coutry, its admin decisition if use it 20:11 cait sorry for all the typos tonight 20:11 cait we are not implementing our own encryption 20:11 cait i think mysql toold might allready support it 20:11 cait we don't do that 20:10 greenjimll Note: I am not a lawyer though. :-) 20:10 greenjimll cait: You may well have to encrypt backups. What I'm point out is that putting encryption code in Koha (rather than just letting the sysadmin encrypt with his normal tools) may pose some legal implications in some countries. 20:09 josef_moravec Joubu: but the debian scripts offer out of the box backup/restore functionality, so they should be able to encrypt/decrypt to 20:08 cait i was told we HAVE to encrypt backups 20:07 cait greenjimll: i tihnk usually you'd use a standard encryption 20:07 josef_moravec Joubu: yes 20:07 greenjimll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptography_law 20:07 Joubu sysadmins can take care of that, right? 20:07 cait ? 20:07 greenjimll For example doesn't France require export and import of cryptographic tools from foreign states to be declared or have explicit authorisation? 20:07 m23_kohaCZ encryption of backup is here for protecting of data in backup = I can decrypt it if I know paasword 20:06 cait sorry, i might not understand you 20:05 greenjimll Doesn't matter what its for: its restriction on code export in Koha or use of encrypytion in some places. 20:05 cait decrypt? 20:05 cait greenjimll: and not one way - you can unencrypt of course 20:05 cait greenjimll: not for other types of exports 20:04 cait greenjimll: this is just for your backups - emergency recovery 20:04 josef_moravec but we need to configure a key somehow 20:04 josef_moravec m23_kohaCZ: yes 20:04 josef_moravec m23_kohaCZ: 20:03 greenjimll What encryption is used or is that configurable? Would it have export implications for some Koha sites? 20:03 m23_kohaCZ just add new option --encrypt dump 20:03 josef_moravec but at least an enhancement to koha-dump would be nice 20:02 josef_moravec now it is doable by server admin 20:02 cait +1 20:02 cait ü1 20:02 Joubu if you have a list of "good" plugins you will need to keep an eyes on them to make sure they are still "good" few months later 20:02 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page record 6 20:01 josef_moravec skipping 5 20:01 cait yep 20:01 cait like apps on your phone : wants access to... - but we are not there yet 20:01 m23_kohaCZ move on #6? 20:00 cait i think the plugins ar just perl scripts... if they used the rest api you might be able to limit them at some point 20:00 josef_moravec yes, we can' control them, so it's alway admin responsibility, we could just provide a way how to declare that it contains personal data, but no more than this 19:59 cait and maybe a list of 'good' plugins thatsomeone has checked with added documentation 19:59 cait i think best we could do is have recommendations 19:59 m23_kohaCZ cait: yes 19:59 cait they are not restrictable in any way 19:59 cait m23_kohaCZ: you could implement that already, but it#s up tot he plugin writer 19:58 magnuse yeah, plugins have to be out of scope, i think 19:58 m23_kohaCZ maybe configuration of plugin can give control to liste staff IDs 19:58 cait so you have a good base for your own docs, but as anyone can provide plugins and they don't go through qa or code checking ... 19:58 magnuse +1 19:57 cait ideally a good plugin should include information about what data it touches, changes and maybe stores additionally 19:57 greenjimll cait: exactly. 19:57 cait greenjimll: it#s totalyl in your responsibility to check the plugins you install 19:57 m23_kohaCZ creator of plugin flag it l= contains personal data, just staff with rule can run it 19:57 janPasi_ Joubu: but that will stop the whole system then, won't it? 19:57 cait I don't think it's a practical solution right now 19:56 greenjimll At what point is it the local Koha admin's responsbility to ensure that plugins/reports meet GDPR? We run the risk of creating unworkable complications when local policies might be better? 19:56 Joubu heh you will need to lock the table, which can be a problem for big queries 19:56 janPasi_ Joubu: won't they get bogus information then? 19:55 janPasi_ Joubu: what is 15 other people access the borrowers table between the update and the rollback? 19:55 janPasi_ Joubu: i don't see how that would work :D 19:55 cait i think 5 would be even harder as we basically have no control on what a plugin does 19:55 josef_moravec greenjimll: yes 19:54 greenjimll I'm guessing #5 is going to have similar issues (hence the same bug number)? 19:53 Joubu it's just an idea :) 19:53 Joubu why that? 19:53 cait Joubu: that does sound kind of scary 19:53 m23_kohaCZ its no moblem, problem is to make smaller goour of staff that can run reports that contain personal data 19:53 Joubu you could 1. Start a transaction, 2. update borrowers set critical_fields=null; 3. execute the SELECT query 4. rollback 19:52 m23_kohaCZ if somebody has rule for creating report, this person logically can make every report 19:52 janPasi_ not to mention it's hard to predict what will be harmless ;) 19:51 cait splitting creating into 'harmless' and 'not harmless' would be hard 19:51 cait there is already separate permissions at the moment for running, creating and deleting reports 19:51 greenjimll But you could also say that to create a report you'd need to new permission too. 19:51 cait the new permission would be to be able to run reports marked with a special flag 19:50 magnuse cait: good point 19:50 greenjimll If you need the new role in order to create reports, doesn't that solve the issue? 19:50 cait would also rule out reports that only group by patron category 19:50 janPasi_ you'd need two database users and then limit their permissions on the database tables 19:50 magnuse but not sure how safely that can be done 19:50 cait janPasi_: yes exactly 19:50 josef_moravec yes, or bypass the permission by not to flag it 19:50 magnuse you could try and look for reports that use e.g. the borrowers table 19:50 janPasi_ it would be hard to limit what the report creator can access in the database 19:50 cait greenjimll: the problem is... how do you restrict writing reports to not contain personal inormation? 19:49 greenjimll Allowing you to (potentially) create a report you can't run? 19:49 josef_moravec yes, that's how it would work in that case 19:49 cait so this would be for executing reports - probably not possible to restrict for creating? 19:48 magnuse yeah, it's just how to do it 19:48 greenjimll So the report creator will need this role in order to make any reports? 19:48 josef_moravec great! 19:48 cait i think we all agree :) 19:48 josef_moravec greenjimll: yeah, the reports wii personal data 19:48 m23_kohaCZ yeah 19:48 cait and split permissions to run normal and 'personal' reports? 19:48 cait like have a flag on the report to suggest it contains personal information 19:47 josef_moravec the on options could be a flag set by report creater? That's the easiest solution ;) 19:47 cait hm 19:47 m23_kohaCZ add new rule for staff and new option at report 19:47 greenjimll Is it a role for any reporting, or just ones that touch "personal data" holding tables? The former surely? 19:47 cait ok ;) 19:47 josef_moravec i have no idea yet ;) 19:46 cait ah, just about how to do that technically maybe? 19:46 cait sec 19:46 josef_moravec some concerns or questions here? 19:45 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page record 4 19:45 josef_moravec moving on 19:44 m23_kohaCZ Koha is very flexibile 19:44 magnuse +1 19:44 m23_kohaCZ yeah 19:44 josef_moravec yes, more options, more Koha ;) 19:44 josef_moravec #action josef_moravec added notes to wiki page and will fill a bug 19:44 cait like lots of things 19:44 cait just maybe has to be an option :) 19:44 m23_kohaCZ staff shold have change this at staff client 19:44 cait i think you can argument both ways 19:43 m23_kohaCZ and whats about borrowet that dont use their OPAC 19:43 greenjimll Not something that affects us at the University, but who gets to set the flag for minors? 19:42 cait the checkouts i mean 19:42 cait s 19:42 cait this can also not be changed by staff, only by patrons themselve 19:42 cait it's similar for 'can i see the books of my guarantees' 19:41 jenkins Project Koha_17.11_D8 build #30: SUCCESS in 43 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_17.11_D8/30/ 19:41 josef_moravec cait: good point 19:40 josef_moravec that does make sense for me, but it is a bit inpractical 19:40 cait we could still have a UI - maybe have a permission for it or setting 19:40 cait you can create them with a default, but not change their choice 19:40 josef_moravec ? 19:40 josef_moravec which purpose 19:39 cait the argumentation was that you shoudl not be able to change what the patron set 19:39 cait i think that was not done on purpose 19:39 janPasi_ which will then be the one we follow? the one set by the borrower or the one set by the staff? or the latest? 19:39 greenjimll Isn't that the opposite of what is suggested on the wiki? 19:38 josef_moravec add an UI for setting patrons privacy from staff client 19:37 cait josef_moravec: what change are you suggesting for the bug? 19:37 m23_kohaCZ I agree 19:37 josef_moravec I think we just need to fill a bug for this now 19:36 cait you might want to check that 19:36 cait greenjimll: that's already how it works - so no change suggested here. if you allow users to change the PatronPrivacy settings 19:36 josef_moravec but the privacy functionalit in Koha is good 19:35 m23_kohaCZ records about issues will be in database but no linked to borrower 19:35 magnuse you can see how often a book was borrowed, but not if it was borrowed by students or professors 19:35 greenjimll Because the borrower information is used to link the loan to someone one a particular module (part of University course) and thence to their department and thus purchasing budget(s). 19:35 josef_moravec patrons are able to change the privacy option in opac, but no all patron do that, they often need assistance, so that's the reason why we would like to be able make this setting in staff client 19:35 janPasi_ greenjimll: or do you make purchases based on loan histories of persons called Bob? ;D 19:34 janPasi_ greenjimll: why would anonymisation have effect on that, the data will still be there, just anonymised? 19:34 magnuse greenjimll: anonymization just replaces the actual borrowernumber with the value of the AnonymousPatron syspref 19:34 greenjimll Especially as it says, "Privacy can only be changed by the patron after logging in to the OPAC, not by librarians through the staff interface" 19:34 cait josef_moravec: can you explain? 19:33 josef_moravec I think here we need just to add an UI to staff client... 19:33 greenjimll With item 3, we currently make use of old loan information to drive purchasing decisions. How would anonymisation work and would it affect that? 19:33 cait ok 19:33 josef_moravec cait: have an unstable connection so if needed 19:32 huginn Current chairs: cait josef_moravec 19:32 josef_moravec #chair cait 19:32 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page record 3 19:32 josef_moravec ok, moving on 19:32 josef_moravec ;) 19:32 josef_moravec in that case we need to anonymize just staff references 19:32 josef_moravec janPasi_: good point, staff could end contract but still could be patron 19:32 josef_moravec and than it is more on the library side, not on system side 19:31 cait maybe we should move on? 19:31 cait might be a real exception:) 19:31 magnuse and the self check user is probably not protected by gdpr ;-) 19:30 cait very useful if you want to see what the self check user does... :) 19:30 cait to clarify, i was thinking about action_logs where you can see who did that checkout 19:29 m23_kohaCZ but theis data about issues its same like regular borrower 19:29 greenjimll What happens if GDPR conflicts with a data retention order? In the UK the Government can demand logs to be kept (for anti-terror, etc reason). 19:28 m23_kohaCZ I think that staff rulez be managet by some legal notice with library 19:28 cait probably we'd need to take closer look at the individual data 19:28 cait maybe haven options to set them up differently 19:27 josef_moravec so the anonymization should work with staff references too 19:27 janPasi_ oh, that will be a problem if you use the same account as both borrower and staff account 19:27 m23_kohaCZ if staff member is out of job, its same like other borrower 19:26 josef_moravec cait: probably yes 19:26 cait isn't that the same? both makes them identifiable 19:26 janPasi_ why not just anonymize the staff members data when the contract ends? 19:25 josef_moravec m23_kohaCZ: so no rerfernces but log the name for example? 19:24 josef_moravec It is ok when the staff is active, but when he/she end an contract? 19:24 m23_kohaCZ its about logs 19:24 cait true 19:24 janPasi_ *with which borrowers data (sorry) 19:24 janPasi_ but at the same time we do have to know which staff members deal with with borrowers data 19:24 cait you will want to know who changed a record for a reasonable time, but probably not indefiniteyl 19:24 cait it's what i've been told too 19:23 josef_moravec I think ;) 19:23 josef_moravec Staffs are also protected by GDPR 19:23 cait what about the link to the staff user? 19:23 cait there 19:23 cait I noticed we talk about patron data rethe 19:22 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page record 2 19:22 josef_moravec #action josef_moravec add bugs and describe it 19:21 josef_moravec #info Koha need an option for deleting patron record instead moving, and an option to anonymize patron record - this should be configurable. 19:21 magnuse +1 19:21 janPasi_ sounds ok to me 19:21 m23_kohaCZ +1 19:20 greenjimll Yep 19:20 greenjimll Yeo 19:20 cait +1 19:20 josef_moravec so in short, we need an option for deleting patron record instead moving, and an option to anonymize patron record - this should be configurable. Do we agree? 19:19 magnuse yup 19:19 cait but having a job that you just tell what NOT to delete might be good 19:19 magnuse true 19:18 m23_kohaCZ we can't just put data off our eyes, into other part of db 19:18 janPasi_ josef_moravec: well, perhaps not, things take time with community koha, however we're probably going to do it in finland 19:18 josef_moravec agree 19:18 magnuse cait: yes, that sounds better to me too 19:18 cait less problematic 19:18 cait date of birth is a good identifier - I like the idea of storing the age with the statistics instead 19:17 m23_kohaCZ magnuse: yes 19:17 josef_moravec janPasi_: I don't think it is realistic to have it in Koha in may... 19:17 magnuse anonymization should probably be configurable, then 19:17 m23_kohaCZ but GDPR restricted saved data out of reason 19:16 josef_moravec date of birth should not be cleaned when anonymize, we need age for statistics too 19:16 janPasi_ there's probably gonna be some more logging with gdpr 19:16 magnuse janPasi_ that is probably the way to go 19:16 janPasi_ we've been planning on having a separate mongodb database for "old" action logs and statistics 19:15 cait like checkouts by categories or age groups 19:15 cait magnuse: if you have a lot of deletions, some statistics will be off because some missing 19:14 magnuse josef_moravec: yup 19:14 josef_moravec could be an option 19:14 cait janPasi: thinking about additional columns - not sure how else to do it 19:14 josef_moravec magnuse: so delete patron record forever? 19:13 magnuse i think it should be possible to avoid using deletedborrowers at all too 19:13 janPasi_ out action_logs currently have aroung 36 million lines (two years worth), it's getting unmanageable 19:13 janPasi_ cait: please no more action_logs and statistics :D 19:13 josef_moravec yes, we need it only for statictics 19:12 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart 19:12 cait because i think atm some information would still be useful for statistics - ideally we should move the information into the statistics and action_logs tables maybe 19:12 m23_kohaCZ maybe rewrite significant fields by mess 19:12 josef_moravec cait: that's exactly what we need I think 19:12 josef_moravec like remove names and dates of births and so on 19:12 cait I've added an option for anonymization instead of deletion to the wiki page 19:12 m23_kohaCZ we need add more privacy = anonymization 19:11 josef_moravec the point is to somehow anonymize the data in deletedborrowers table 19:11 josef_moravec yes, but that's not the point 19:11 cait but it probably won't happen fast 19:11 cait yes, we discussed merging the tables 19:11 josef_moravec I remember that on last developers meeting there was also debate about this 19:10 josef_moravec #topic Wiki page record 1 ;) 19:10 cait josef_moravec++ 19:09 josef_moravec I've added numbers to the wiki page for reference 19:09 josef_moravec #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Improve_data_protection_and_patron_privacy 19:09 josef_moravec #topic Debate about improvements in Koha code that we collected https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Improve_data_protection_and_patron_privacy 19:08 janPasi_ #info Pasi Korkalo, Koha-Suomi Oy, Finland 19:07 josef_moravec last call for info 19:06 m23_kohaCZ #info Michal Denar, Municipal Library Ceska Trebova, Czech Republic 19:05 josef_moravec #info Josef Moravec, Municipal Library Usti nad Orlici, Czech Republic 19:05 magnuse #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway 19:05 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ Germany 19:05 greenjimll #info Jon Knight, Loughborough University 19:05 cait if you want help, use #chair nick 19:05 josef_moravec #topic Introductions (please use "#info" in front of your introduction to have it show up in the automatic minutes) 19:05 magnuse josef_moravec++ 19:04 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'gdpr_irc_meeting_26_february_2018' 19:04 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 19:04 huginn Meeting started Mon Feb 26 19:04:49 2018 UTC. The chair is josef_moravec. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:04 josef_moravec #startmeeting GDPR IRC meeting 26 February 2018 19:04 m23_kohaCZ I'm chair lama too :-) 19:04 * josef_moravec could try if it will work 19:04 greenjimll https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Chairing_meetings 19:03 * josef_moravec never chaired before too 19:03 * magnuse never chaired before 19:00 cait maybe co-chair? still a bit occupied with dinner :) 19:00 * magnuse votes for cait 18:59 magnuse hiya josef_moravec 18:59 cait who will chair? 18:59 josef_moravec hi magnuse, m23_kohaCZ 18:59 m23_kohaCZ hello 18:59 cait hello :) 18:58 magnuse \o/ 18:57 josef_moravec hi cait 18:13 huginn mtompset: khall was last seen in #koha 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <khall> Joubu: you are right, I didn't understand your comment ; ) I'll post a followup to correct the situation 18:13 mtompset @seen khall 17:58 cait will be back until then 17:58 cait GDPR meeting in an hour? 17:58 cait :) 17:19 mtompset tcohen++ # multiple helps today. :) 17:18 mtompset Thanks. 17:18 tcohen later, grabbing something for lunch 17:18 tcohen he 17:18 tcohen cait: look ^^^ I'm mtompset's wahanui 17:17 tcohen https://askubuntu.com/questions/412525/vagrant-up-and-annoying-nfs-password-asking 17:17 tcohen you mean with vagrant? 17:15 mtompset tcohen, Is there a way to get Ubuntu to NOT prompt me for sudo password on the NFS shares with kohadevbox? 17:09 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 13287: DBRev 17.12.00.021 17:09 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 13287: Remove warning if --days is not passed and pref empty 17:09 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 13287: (QA follow-up) Final polishing 17:09 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13287 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, remi.mayrand-provencher, Pushed to Master , Add a system preference to define the number of days used in purge_suggestions.pl 17:09 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20140 trivial, P5 - low, ---, pasi.kallinen, Pushed to Master , Allow translating more of OAI sets 17:09 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 13287: (QA follow-up) Extend Suggestions.t for 17:09 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 13287: (QA follow-up) Prepare Suggestions.t for changes 17:09 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20225 trivial, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Pushed to Master , Remove unused script reports/stats.print.pl 17:09 jenkins * mtompset: Bug 13287: (QA follow-up) Add db revision 17:09 jenkins * remi.mayrand-provencher: Bug 13287: Add a system preference to define the number of days used in 17:09 jenkins * pasi.kallinen: Bug 20140: Allow translating more of OAI sets 17:09 jenkins * julian.maurice: Bug 20225: Remove unused script reports/stats.print.pl 17:09 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20082 minor, P5 - low, ---, katrin.fischer, Pushed to Master , Vietnamese language display name is incorrect 17:09 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 20082: DBRev 17.12.00.020 17:09 jenkins * katrin.fischer: Bug 20082: Correct description of Vietnamese language and add German 17:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20199 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Letters.t does not pass with new SQL modes 17:08 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 20199: Send a DateTime to DBIC instead of an iso formatted date 17:08 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 20199: Add tests for Koha::Acq::Order->store 17:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20075 minor, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Change authority hidden attribute in sql installer files 17:08 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 20075: Update installer files for uk-UA 17:08 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 20075: Update installer files for ru-RU 17:08 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 20075: Adjust installer files for de-DE up to pl-PL 17:08 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 20074: DBRev 17.12.00.019 17:08 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 20074: (follow-up) Replace hidden value -5 by 1 in data and 17:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20074 major, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Master , Auth_subfield_structure changes hidden attribute 17:08 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 20074: (follow-up) Remove another remainder of biblio hidden logic 17:08 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 20074: Database revision to convert hidden to -5 17:08 jenkins * m.de.rooy: Bug 20074: Fix hidden value in auth_subfields_structure 17:08 jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #384: STILL UNSTABLE in 40 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D8/384/ 16:39 cait oleonard: around? 16:28 cait https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Submitting_A_Patch 16:28 cait :) 16:28 notarock Thanks, im still here :) 16:27 cait that was out of context ... way out of context 16:27 cait eek...s crolling broken 16:27 cait notarock: also check the wiki - we hopefully have good instructions ther 16:26 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 13287: Add a system preference to define the number of days used in purge_suggest... <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=badaf236c9d49d852cb4bcb5754b9f032cd8b6c6> 16:26 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 13287: (QA follow-up) Add db revision <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=053d9a58ac057b8e72c050751540dda1f827ddbe> 16:26 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20074: Database revision to convert hidden to -5 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=08aba08a926f3956324cb66a049942f38810b525> 16:26 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20074: (follow-up) Remove another remainder of biblio hidden logic <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=1b25d81dc69a758f900b72fbff0c7fc99bc59fa2> 16:26 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20082: Correct description of Vietnamese language and add German translation <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=0f0a5a4f48cf4c70dd18d5a316eef3f22c0199d8> 16:26 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20140: Allow translating more of OAI sets <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e466f0d1e390530de317ad34bb9495ef8a3b64f3> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20199: Add tests for Koha::Acq::Order->store <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=912824a9b187aac7c09d31c91b3c6056e3ec538e> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20199: Send a DateTime to DBIC instead of an iso formatted date <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=0cd75a0eb28db29779de85e29e4c485dd2dbb6fa> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20225: Remove unused script reports/stats.print.pl <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4dd344d6d6c95afd0bbb1f0095a256fea7a8d8dd> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 13287: (QA follow-up) Prepare Suggestions.t for changes <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=b241555b0abe0ade8aa5fb088acdf2bc26cefe60> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 13287: (QA follow-up) Extend Suggestions.t for DelSuggestionsOlderThan <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=d88c0803e6f76db99aefc1b44b14789818fb69ae> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 13287: (QA follow-up) Final polishing <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=c39ea95e3806e55bd12a4f5e993b4f79ba87ba4a> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20075: Adjust installer files for de-DE up to pl-PL <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=dd8775c53aa2818cd9434821ce6f96ffbd62cb0f> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20075: Update installer files for ru-RU <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=2f06cc501be05fe6c2cc6099d2122006dee12496> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20075: Update installer files for uk-UA <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=c1df9aad54cb1acdacfb0e5681ef83e1b7f24eec> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20074: (follow-up) Replace hidden value -5 by 1 in data and interface <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5db0f7e4c6514b137cfe08e32260dd9694bf33c8> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 13287: Remove warning if --days is not passed and pref empty <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=ec6fe57db001ddfd659b894a534286cdf923f502> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20074: DBRev 17.12.00.019 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=c2a376db26904e30f4eec51e17c976652a0fe8b2> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20082: DBRev 17.12.00.020 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=b3d46287a992e946039c03c84d3327f7c4b43413> 16:25 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 13287: DBRev 17.12.00.021 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=775adc1e9adbc647b3389019ded546b81e46c6e3> 16:00 reiveune bye 15:52 oleonard Oh I see, SvcMaxReportRows 15:48 oleonard If you make a report public, does it limit the number of results by default? 15:17 tcohen we should move the git-clone step out of the Dockerfile 15:15 tcohen I think you can merge it now 15:14 tcohen that was not intended 15:14 tcohen hahaha 15:14 tcohen didn't ]I send a pr? 15:14 Joubu it's "WIP" 15:14 Joubu https://gitlab.com/koha-community/koha-misc4dev/merge_requests/20 15:13 Joubu hum? 15:13 tcohen you accepted the PR? 15:13 tcohen yes sir 15:13 Joubu tcohen: misc4dev needs to be refetched for jenkins 15:12 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded. 15:12 Joubu @later tell tcohen: could you take another look at bug 20191? 15:12 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20191 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, ASSIGNED , OAI/Server.t still fails on slow servers 15:12 Joubu tcohen: could you take another look at bug 20191? 15:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19823 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Move template JavaScript to the footer: MARC21 editor plugins 15:08 jenkins * oleonard: Bug 19823: Move template JavaScript to the footer: MARC21 editor plugins 15:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19754 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Move template JavaScript to the footer: Acquisitions, part 2 15:08 jenkins * oleonard: Bug 19754: Move template JavaScript to the footer: Acquisitions, part 2 15:08 jenkins * josef.moravec: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Fix showing links to items on boraccount page 15:08 jenkins * josef.moravec: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Fix patron account summary print 15:08 jenkins * josef.moravec: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Add test for Koha::Account::Lines object 15:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12001 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , GetMemberAccountRecords slows down display of patron details and checkout pages 15:08 jenkins * josef.moravec: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Fix printinvoice page 15:08 jenkins * Tomás Cohen Arazi: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Explicit return 15:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20240 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Remove space before : when searching for a vendor in serials (Vendor name :) 15:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20239 trivial, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Fix spelling on authority linker plugin 15:08 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 12001: Format DEBT correctly 15:08 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 12001: Prove that result are the same \o/ 15:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20061 major, P5 - low, ---, mirko, Pushed to Master , koha-common is not pulling libsearch-elasticsearch-perl 15:08 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 12001: Move GetMemberAccountBalance to 15:08 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 12001: Add tests 15:08 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 12001: Move GetMemberAccountRecords to the Koha namespace 15:08 jenkins * oleonard: Bug 20240: Remove space before : when searching for a vendor in serials 15:08 jenkins * oleonard: Bug 20239: Fix spelling on authority linker plugin 15:08 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7143 trivial, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Pushed to Master , Bug for tracking changes to the about page 15:08 jenkins * mirko: Bug 20061: koha-common is not pulling libsearch-elasticsearch-perl / 15:08 jenkins * mirko: Bug 20061: koha-common is not pulling libsearch-elasticsearch-perl 15:08 jenkins * Jonathan Druart: Bug 7143: Update about page for new dev - Pongtawat Chippimolchai 15:08 jenkins Project Koha_Master_D8 build #383: STILL UNSTABLE in 45 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_Master_D8/383/ 15:07 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18674 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nengard, Needs Signoff , Show timezone for Perl and MySQL on the About Koha page 15:07 mtompset bug 18674 15:07 mtompset I did that. Go read the patch. 15:04 tcohen my $env_tz = $ENV{TZ}; my $conf_tz = C4::Context->config('tz'); 15:03 tcohen then do what its done in C4::Context 15:03 mtompset It is simple, just pass some parameters and display them. 15:03 mtompset No, no... I want to be able to display what is use and both the config and env, so people can realize the config overrides the environment. 15:02 tcohen =D 15:02 tcohen don't obfuscate a very simple implementation 15:01 tcohen mtompset: I wouldn't bother about the ENV use case… that already works, we are adding the option to use koha-conf.xml to set a different TZ… 14:59 mtompset Woo hoo! Okay... Thanks for the help, tcohen. 14:57 mtompset -- nope. The answer was koha-common 14:57 Joubu `which koha-plack` 14:56 mtompset And where is the koha-plack triggered in the devbox? 14:54 mtompset Ah... pre-pending. 14:54 tcohen not sure 14:54 tcohen TZ='blah' koha-plack —start kohadev? 14:54 mtompset Where is the equivalent tweak to be made for plack? 14:54 tcohen koha-plack is a shell script 14:54 mtompset apache has SetEnv TZ "America/Toronto" capability. 14:53 tcohen what do you mean? 14:53 mtompset tcohen, How do you set environment variables for plack? 14:40 tcohen mtompset: awesome 14:35 mtompset That's what some of my touch ups fix. 14:35 mtompset tcohen, most of that is working. 14:33 tcohen mtompset: jokes aside, all DB configuration parameters should be able to be passed on the CLI, and koha-create shouldn't try to create anything unless —create-db is passed 14:31 tcohen Koha::Instance::Generic::Factory::Remote::DB 14:30 tcohen We should be able to subclass it 14:30 mtompset Though, a rewrite would be good. Can we get functional first? 14:30 mtompset No need to do a massive rewrite. 14:30 mtompset Objects are the underlying implementation. The cli is generally fine. Just be adding a distinguish between webserver and dbserver we can actually get it working okay. 14:29 tcohen hahaha 14:29 tcohen I was thinking there should be a Koha::Instance::Generic::Factory class 14:28 tcohen but is not object-oriented 14:27 tcohen I mean, it did a great work for a lot of time 14:27 tcohen we need to rewrite it for good 14:27 tcohen the main problem is koha-create is not designed to work on remote servers 14:26 mtompset Because of permission issues. 14:26 mtompset I'll accept tweaks, the problem is remote server installations currently fail without manual intervention at this time. 14:25 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20272 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , XSLT_Handler should use alphanumeric error codes 14:25 marcelr here another bad title bug 20272 14:24 tcohen mtompset: you have problems with your bug titles 14:24 mtompset Plus the title might be scary too. :) 14:23 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16690 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , Installing DB on remote server fails without *.* permissions 14:23 mtompset -- otherwise it will languish in pain like bug 16690 14:22 tcohen its the developers mailing list 14:22 tcohen http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo 14:22 notarock koha-devel? 14:21 tcohen and probably mention it in koha-devel 14:21 tcohen notarock: yes 14:20 notarock How are new features//suggestions added into Koha? Should I file a bug in bugzilla with the feature I made, and attach my patch? 14:20 mtompset I was thinking: timezone: -- used: <value>, config: <value|unset>, environemtn: <value| unset> 14:19 mtompset The problem is the default 'local' does not match a timezone in MySQL. 14:19 tcohen mtompset: khall will fix that, write the patch :-D and make sure we tell the user where the tz config was read from (env vs. config file) 14:19 mtompset He implements a nice encapsulating function in C4::Context. 14:18 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20123 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , Allow multiple instances of Koha to have different timezones on the same server 14:18 tcohen bug 20123 14:18 mtompset The problem is 20123 broke in a web upgrade. :( 14:18 huginn tcohen: I've exhausted my database of quotes 14:18 tcohen huginn: tf? 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 19754: Move template JavaScript to the footer: Acquisitions, part 2 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=3d2e91a5730c1916a05134fa56e7557d4fc51f36> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 19823: Move template JavaScript to the footer: MARC21 editor plugins <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=45bb8a8225d88f43125803c0994245915cd4b3cc> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: Move GetMemberAccountRecords to the Koha namespace <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=51aa6db46c604aa202a3d8f8e5028557480efbd5> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: Move GetMemberAccountBalance to Koha::Account->non_issues_charges <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=6355791848585f7ef490b1c63f64790b9a783e73> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: Add tests <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=d9558f77866fa3fd530eb615b8f5d277d1b8c608> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: Prove that result are the same \o/ <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4e479921bfdd0983e76c3c0d7f2e4bb568aa299e> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: Format DEBT correctly <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=dcd495de24dd2bca4079a25e6b0a968b3b40f899> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Explicit return <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=2410aaca23548be9817dfcec9f66d8999390cd67> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Fix printinvoice page <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=1d9245d7b21f1bd0b403940e12156ff364a8f6e8> 14:18 mtompset I was thinking about it, yes. 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Add test for Koha::Account::Lines object <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=0e83779f2f68a16f72f5e3ffa5494424c4e182db> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Fix patron account summary print <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=d81f371e2dfacb4da9eecdb4ed521af581c67fc4> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 12001: (QA follow-up) Fix showing links to items on boraccount page <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=efa894e625b4097ca0c1b41380a8d8afec5dc273> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 7143: Update about page for new dev - Pongtawat Chippimolchai <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=fc02e92d107750d624bf8121ca48a3c63eee9e21> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20240: Remove space before : when searching for a vendor in serials (Vendor name :) <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=4609e95f9d9f8bd2a773522d67d7cd6126c9120a> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20239: Fix spelling on authority linker plugin <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=ca32f936576e07909d7d5468f8eaa470221de6a1> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20061: koha-common is not pulling libsearch-elasticsearch-perl <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=78cd06a0f67f2f5eb09a9cf9441e4619856ac407> 14:18 huginn News from kohagit: Bug 20061: koha-common is not pulling libsearch-elasticsearch-perl / d/control <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=f1b6feb20f19492f4848c939566472f33bd621c9> 14:18 tcohen mtompset: are you implementing a patch for TZ in about.pl? 14:17 mtompset Greetings, tcohen. 14:17 mtompset Well, wouldn't want to distract from correcting something else. :) 14:17 huginn mtompset: khall was last seen in #koha 10 minutes and 39 seconds ago: <khall> Joubu: you are right, I didn't understand your comment ; ) I'll post a followup to correct the situation 14:17 mtompset @seen khall 14:17 tcohen hi mtompset 14:17 mtompset Greetings, #koha. 14:10 LibraryClaire *but 14:10 LibraryClaire bug I like oleonard's suggestion 14:08 LibraryClaire because, emojis... https://emojipedia.org/face-with-rolling-eyes/ 14:08 LibraryClaire or the rolling eye smiley XD 14:07 tcohen haha 14:07 tcohen even if the contents... 14:07 tcohen oleonard: that's the correct one for Koha 14:07 LibraryClaire https://emojipedia.org/sparkling-heart/ 14:07 oleonard https://emojipedia.org/wrapped-present/ 14:06 khall Joubu: you are right, I didn't understand your comment ; ) I'll post a followup to correct the situation 14:06 marcelr we're improving on bug titles, i see 14:05 LibraryClaire Joubu, we could always be boring and go for the smiley option 14:05 LibraryClaire :D 14:05 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20299 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, In Discussion , Is Koha installer suggesting Koha is shit? 14:05 Joubu bug 20299 14:04 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19806 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, nick, Pushed to Stable , Add class to items.itemnotes_nonpublic 14:04 jenkins Nick Clemens: Bug 19806: Add classes to itemnotes in issues table 14:04 jenkins Project Koha_17.05_D8 build #85: UNSTABLE in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_17.05_D8/85/ 14:02 Joubu just look at the code then :) 14:02 tcohen haha 14:02 tcohen Joubu: I didn't understand it like that either 14:01 tcohen ah, there's a lot of code in the template for the case diffbranch=1 which will never be set? 14:01 Joubu which makes me think your patch is wrong 14:00 Joubu khall: take a look at the code, "diffbranch" is no longer set to 1 in pl and so we are going to have lot of code (tepmlate-side) that is not used/processed 14:00 Joubu khall: about 18958, you did not understand my comment and I do not understand yours, so I guess you will not understand my last answer... :D 13:59 LibraryClaire if that's what it makes you think of, then yes ;) 13:58 eythian LibraryClaire: is it an ad for that movie? 13:58 Joubu marcelr: at first glance it would make sense to move it, yes 13:57 tcohen Koha => cat || beer :-D 13:57 Joubu I am waiting for someone to suggest me something better 13:57 LibraryClaire I think it's great ;) 13:56 tcohen Joubu: change that emoji :-D 13:54 LibraryClaire there's a poo emoji in my web installer 13:51 marcelr keeping 1 instead of -5 13:51 marcelr the last one 13:50 marcelr Joubu: if you like, we could move a patch from 20075 to 20074 ? 13:30 oleonard ...not that it shouldn't be fixed. 13:29 oleonard It only affects the staff client home page I think 13:29 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20268 normal, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, NEW , CSS regression: white gap on the top of the staff pages 13:29 Joubu bug 20268! 13:28 Joubu oleonard: fixed already? 13:28 LibraryClaire hi khall, hi magnuse 13:28 khall mornin! 13:28 oleonard Joubu: Yes, I am guilty 13:28 Joubu I have now a 1em margin at the top of the body element 13:28 magnuse hiya khall 13:27 magnuse ¡hola tcohen! 13:27 tcohen hi magnuse 13:27 magnuse thanks oleonard 13:27 Joubu oleonard: 19981 added a margin-top: 1em; to .main 13:27 oleonard welcome magnuse 13:25 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=20276 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Pushed to Stable , GetCourseItem is using the wrong call to get itemnumber 13:25 jenkins fridolin.somers: Bug 20276: Fix GetCourseItem call to get itemnumber 13:25 jenkins Project Koha_17.05_D8 build #84: SUCCESS in 39 min: https://jenkins.koha-community.org/job/Koha_17.05_D8/84/ 13:18 cait well, thx, i guess? 13:18 tcohen you are far better than wahanui :_D 13:17 cait are you using me like wahanui? 13:17 cait but it's used and needed 13:17 cait the printed is nonsense 13:17 cait the date a order is cancelled 13:12 tcohen cait: datecancellationprinted? 13:07 huginn tcohen: Cordoba, Argentina :: Clear :: 65F/18C | Monday: Mostly sunny. High 84F. Winds NE at 5 to 10 mph. Monday Night: Some clouds this evening will give way to mainly clear skies overnight. Low around 60F. Winds light and variable. 13:07 tcohen @wunder cordoba argentina 13:07 cait only if I get one of those penguins to push around :) 13:07 tcohen cait? 13:07 cait ugh 13:01 tcohen LOL 13:01 marcelr yeah nice 13:01 eythian tcohen: QAing on ice? 13:00 marcelr tcohen: go qa! 13:00 marcelr seen too much olympics 13:00 tcohen :-P 13:00 tcohen eythian: he will be QAing all week 13:00 marcelr they think they can skate :) 12:59 eythian marcelr: I assume you're planning on taking a day off this week like every other Dutch person I know? 12:55 LibraryClaire hey marcelr 12:55 marcelr hi oleonard LibraryClaire and tcohen 12:54 LibraryClaire hi tcohen 12:53 tcohen morning 12:53 LibraryClaire hi oleonard 12:53 oleonard Hi #koha 09:52 paxed looking at members/update-child.tt, there's a js block guarded by [% IF ( CONFIRM ) %], but i can't find CONFIRM set anywhere? dead code? 09:28 alex_a cait: just see that! 09:27 huginn Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=2696 major, P3, ---, kyle, Failed QA , Fine Payments Should Show What Was Paid For 09:27 cait alex_a: did you apply the dependency o bug 2696? it's quite a tree 09:24 marcelr hi #koha 08:49 eythian_ hi 08:46 cait hi paul_p, gaetan_B 08:46 cait good morning #koha 08:28 gaetan_B hello 08:13 magnuse \o/ 07:56 * LibraryClaire waves 07:56 fridolin hi 07:52 magnuse o/ 07:44 alex_a bonjour 07:41 reiveune hello 07:13 cait drojf: i visited my mum yesterday... lots of walking and waiting at train stations brrrr 07:00 ibeardslee sigh 06:59 ibeardslee mine 06:43 drojf my face almost fell off when i went for a walk last weekend :/ 06:42 huginn drojf: Berlin, Germany :: Partly Cloudy :: 20F/-7C | Wind Chill: 12F/-11C | Monday: A mix of clouds and sun. Very cold. High 28F. Winds NE at 10 to 20 mph. Monday Night: Clear to partly cloudy. Hard freeze expected. Low 13F. Winds ENE at 5 to 10 mph. 06:42 drojf @wunder berlin, germany 06:40 cait :( 06:40 huginn cait: Konstanz, Germany :: Clear :: 14F/-10C | Wind Chill: 0F/-18C | Monday: Sunny to partly cloudy. High near 20F. Winds NE at 10 to 20 mph. Monday Night: Bitterly cold. Partly cloudy. Low 12F. Winds NE at 10 to 15 mph. 06:40 cait @wunder Konstanz 06:28 huginn paxed: Joensuu, Finland :: Partly Cloudy :: 14F/-10C | Wind Chill: 0F/-18C | Monday: A mix of clouds and sun during the morning will give way to cloudy skies this afternoon. High 16F. Winds NE at 10 to 15 mph. Monday Night: A few clouds. Hard freeze expected. Low -6F. Winds ENE at 5 to 10 mph. 06:28 paxed @wunder joensuu