Time Nick Message 00:49 aleisha hey Francesca 00:49 wahanui Francesca is a musical front end cat person 00:50 Francesca hey 00:50 aleisha hows it 00:50 Francesca busy busy - studying for a test and planning essays 00:50 Francesca you? 00:51 aleisha do you not get a break? 00:51 aleisha im good, enjoying being able to come to work everyday tbh 00:51 Francesca I do get a break from classes 00:51 Francesca but need to get ahead on assingments 00:51 Francesca most of the stuff is due right after the break 00:52 aleisha yeah i know that feel, i have a test in the first week back 00:52 Francesca same 00:52 Francesca thats what I'm studying for lol 04:20 Amit_Gupta hi all 06:07 reiveune hello 06:23 * magnuse waves 06:30 magnuse timezones is https://xkcd.com/1883/ 06:33 alex_a hello magnuse 07:01 marcelr hi #koha 07:35 gaetan_B hello 07:51 andreashm morning #koha 08:33 * cait waves 08:33 cait marcelr: around? 08:33 marcelr hi cait 08:35 * andreashm waves too 08:35 cait can you maybe help me - I was wondering if the xsl scripts in the z39.50 config should also work for authority servers? 08:36 cait i am not sure if it's me or the code 08:36 cait hi andreashm! 08:36 marcelr iirc the code does not allow it currently 08:36 cait gah, I was hoping you'd say it's me :) 08:36 cait I will file a bug report 08:36 marcelr it has been copied from the biblio code and adjusted/stripped ? 08:37 cait in our national authority file there is a lot of data in $9 - and Koha thinks that's the ids to link on... it created quite a mess 08:37 marcelr ok 08:37 cait I was looking for a way to get rid of the $9 similar to the script that is available for bibliographic 08:38 cait the xsl scripts would have been ideal, not sure there is another way now 08:38 cait i will file a bug/enh for adding the feature to the authority servers 08:38 marcelr yeah 08:53 cait bug 19220 08:53 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19220 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Allow XSLT procsessing for Z39.50 authority targets like for bibliographic targets 09:00 andreashm Is there anything being done with the script in bug 14598 at the moment? 09:00 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14598 major, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Pushed to Master , itemtype is not set on statistics by C4::Circulation::AddReturn 09:01 andreashm From what I understand this makes upgrading with a large database virtually impossible. 09:02 andreashm Unless the library in question handles it themselves and changes this update function (see the last comments on the bug) 09:07 cait andreashm: I don't know about recent activity - but could you leave a comment on it? 09:08 andreashm cait: will do! 09:27 nyogtang hello 09:28 nyogtang i am having some problem regarding the Koha OPAC page. I have installed successfully my koha and done the web installer as well. But when i try to open my OPAC page, it says "System Maintenance The Koha online catalog is offline for system maintenance. We'll be back soon! If you have any questions, please contact the site administrator" 09:30 cait have you run the web installer yet? 09:30 nyogtang yes i have 09:30 cait have you restarted Plack? 09:31 cait can you access the staff interface? 09:31 nyogtang i am newbe in koha here. Can you explain more on plack? 09:32 nyogtang yes i can access staff interface 09:34 cait not sure I can explain it well 09:34 cait but if you are runnign on packages 09:34 cait try on command line: 09:34 cait sudo koha-plack --restart <yourinstancename> 09:34 cait hi kidclamp! 09:35 kidclamp hi cait 09:35 cait oh, it could also be one other thing, someome could have activated the maintenance mode manually, check the system preference OpacMaintenance too - but it's more unlikely 09:38 nyogtang Ok thanks That was the case. I m sorry for the trouble but thanks again 09:39 magnuse cait++ 09:39 cait phew great 09:39 cait glad it work snow 09:39 cait works now :) 09:40 nyogtang yes. Thanks alot. 09:55 magnuse woohoo, just created my first koha instance with --letsencrypt! 09:57 kidclamp magnuse++ 10:02 * andreashm waves 10:02 * magnuse sends drojf some round tuits for bug 16662 10:02 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16662 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mirko, NEW , Letsencrypt II: Return of the cryptosaurus. (make it work for existing instances) 10:03 magnuse but i'll probably make ansible help me out with it anyway... 10:04 magnuse alexbuckley++ for the onboarding tool! 10:20 * magnuse just created attachment 66666 10:20 huginn 03Attachment http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/attachment.cgi?id=66666&action=edit image/png, Screenshot from the onboarding tool, onboarding-superlibrarian.png 10:31 cait oh new huginn trick 11:33 oleonard Hi all 11:36 marcelr hi oleonard 11:36 wahanui hi olé onard 11:58 tcohen bonjour 12:06 rsantellan good morning #koha 12:32 * LeeJ waves 12:32 LeeJ morning #koha 12:38 kidclamp morning leeJ 12:41 * LibraryClaire waves 12:42 * LeeJ waves back to LibraryClaire 12:44 * oleonard waves at LibraryClaire and then awkwardly realizes she was waving at someone behind him 12:45 * LibraryClaire waves to oleonard 12:45 tcohen morning 12:47 LeeJ hahaha 12:47 * LeeJ waves to oleonard and tcohen 12:47 * cait waves in all directions 12:47 marcelr serious waving 12:48 * LibraryClaire 's arm falls off 12:48 * cait screams 12:48 * LibraryClaire goes in search of brains 12:48 marcelr :q 12:48 marcelr lol 12:49 * LeeJ waves to cait 12:49 marcelr trivial patch bug 19222 12:49 * LeeJ also waves to marcelr 12:49 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19222 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, Needs Signoff , Why does dt_from_string not understand yyyy-mm-ddThh:mm:ss ? 12:49 marcelr o/ 12:50 tcohen marcelr: it even adds tests :-D 12:50 marcelr 80% is testing 12:56 * magnuse waves in norwegian 12:56 Joubu hi #koha 12:56 marcelr hi Joubu 12:56 cait hi Joubu 12:56 Joubu marcelr: I do not think it is relevant, why do you want to support it? 12:56 marcelr i paste such values into dt_from_string in a script and it kills the time 12:57 Joubu but you are not supposed to manipulate them 12:57 Joubu it's string representation of DateTime objects 12:57 marcelr i get these values from outside xml 13:00 Joubu marcelr: could you explain a use case on the bug report? 13:00 Joubu at first glance I'd say you are trying to fix an error that occured before in the process 13:02 marcelr i add a comment 13:03 tcohen hi Joubu 13:04 tcohen Joubu: I don't think adding more formats to dt_from_string would be problematic 13:05 Joubu it could hide a problem 13:05 Joubu like manipulating string representation of datetime :) 13:06 tcohen maybe the implementation should be different 13:11 Joubu tcohen: bug 19116 could you give your opinion on what I suggest? 13:11 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19116 critical, P5 - low, ---, josef.moravec, Failed QA , Holds not set to waiting when "Confirm" is used 13:11 vegasjoe Is there someone that can point me to a resolution to borrowernumber problem? the borrowernumber is not autocalculating. 13:11 tcohen Joubu: yes, as soon as I finish answering your BIG RED WARNING email, boss 13:11 tcohen :-D 13:12 marcelr another red warning ? 13:14 Joubu vegasjoe: autocalculating? what do you mean? 13:15 vegasjoe When adding a new patron, the auto generating of a new borrowernumber is not working for me 13:16 vegasjoe similiar to https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=6782 13:16 huginn 04Bug 6782: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, meenakshi.r, RESOLVED FIXED, Move auto member cardnumber generation to occur when record is "Saved" (avoid collisions) 13:17 vegasjoe I have updated to the latest version of koha17.05.03.000 13:18 Joubu it's not borrowernumber but cardnumber then? 13:24 kidclamp LeeJ++ 13:25 vegasjoe yes the cardnumber sorry 13:25 LeeJ kidclamp++ # there are not enough increments for this guy 13:26 Freddy_Enrique Good morning guys 13:27 Joubu vegasjoe: using ldap? 13:27 Joubu bug 17215 13:27 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17215 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, ldjamison, Needs Signoff , Cardnumbers of patrons created using LDAP Replication not using autoMemberNum if configured 13:27 vegasjoe I am not using LDAP 13:28 Freddy_Enrique yesterday I made some test using the sql backup of the system to see if I could solve the...club table problem. But it didn't get installed when I upgraded to 17.05 and the terminal doesn't show any errors 13:31 Joubu vegasjoe: please open a bug report and explain what happens 13:31 vegasjoe Ok 13:32 magnuse Freddy_Enrique: you have seen bug 18836? 13:32 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18836 major, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , MySQL 5.7 - Table 'koha_library.club_enrollments' doesn't exist 13:32 magnuse ah, yes, you commented on it. sorry! :-) 13:33 Freddy_Enrique jejeje 13:33 Freddy_Enrique btw...what Magnus Enger said is the solution? 13:34 Freddy_Enrique it looks to me like that is a procedure to create the missing table 13:35 Freddy_Enrique indeed, after installing the phpmyadmin I couldn't see the club table, but so weird considering that this time I got to see the instalation page to update the database 13:47 vegasjoe I have submitted the bug. https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=19224 13:47 huginn 04Bug 19224: minor, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , Cardnumber is not auto calculating during new borrower registration 13:48 vegasjoe I see in the code that when memberentry.pl is called that is passes input parameters. Is there a log that would show me the input parameters? 13:53 Joubu vegasjoe: remove "cardnumber" from the system preference 'BorrowerMandatoryField' 13:56 vegasjoe Joubu: that worked 13:56 vegasjoe thanks 14:02 Joubu vegasjoe: please close the bug report (mark it as resolved > invalid) and explain how you fixed it 14:06 vegasjoe Ok 14:09 pastebot "tcohen" at 172.22.12.218 pasted "Joubu, khall: Pagination plugin usage example" (50 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/627 14:10 khall looks great tcohen! 14:10 tcohen khall, Joubu: there's room for generalization I think 14:10 khall tcohen: definitely 14:14 tcohen I will propose to have page and per_page as reserved words 15:35 reiveune bye 15:53 cait hm i forgot tos end a reminder about the documentation meeting 16:01 Joubu cait: you still have time 16:09 LeeJ cait: 21 UTC is ~5 hours from now correct? Still getting used to doing the time conversion on the fly :P 16:13 cait there is a link on the wiki that should help you: ) 16:13 cait Joubu: i will do it when i am home 16:14 cait unless someone else wnats to? it will take a bit longer 16:14 cait LeeJ: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Documentation_IRC_meeting_31_August the time converter link 16:14 cait bbl 16:34 LeeJ cait: danke :) 16:51 gaetan_B bye 17:01 LeeJ be back in a bit :) 17:07 eythian @later tell kathryn https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/96350851/new-zealands-safest-worker-is-someone-at-a-desk-in-wellington 17:07 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded. 17:09 barton eythian: I don't know where else, other than #koha, I would ever have seen that, and thought 'huh, how appropriate!'. :-) 17:36 LeeJ cait: I'm heading out for now..trying to get some work done while no one is barging into my office :P I'll be back for the meeting :) 18:51 tcohen hi 19:09 * cait waves 19:09 cait 2 hours to documentation meeting! 19:13 * Freddy_Enrique Hi cait 19:13 cait hi Freddy_Enrique :) 19:19 * andreashm waves 19:33 andreashm Documentation meeting coming up ey? I didn't even know that there was documentation meetings... 19:35 Freddy_Enrique what its it about? Forgive, new to this subject 19:42 andreashm Freddy_Enrique: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Documentation_IRC_meeting_31_August 19:48 cait andreashm: it might be the first 19:49 cait you are all very welcome :) 19:51 andreashm cait: thanks! =) 19:54 andreashm cait: how are things down in Germany? 19:54 cait super busy :) 19:54 cait we are migrating the goethe institute libraries 19:54 andreashm well, that's a change! er, or not. 19:55 andreashm oh cool 19:55 cait one in stockholm too i believe 19:55 cait ah, but you are not there :( 19:55 cait how are things where you are? :) 19:55 andreashm I think so. Seem to recall talking about it some months ago. 19:55 andreashm Back in Stockholm. Back at work. All's good! 19:55 cait oh! 19:56 cait when did you move back? 19:56 andreashm A month ago. Back at work last week. 20:01 cait cool 20:01 cait i saw that lund is going to use Koha? 20:02 cait I still tell people about how cool I think Viola is :) 20:05 andreashm hehe, awesome. 20:05 andreashm yeah, lund is migrating next year I think. 20:08 andreashm the Swedish koha user group might do a hackfest (sort of) there sometime this fall, november or so. 20:11 cait :) 20:12 cait hackfests are fun 20:13 andreashm indeed 20:13 andreashm or, the only one I've been to was fun at least 20:14 andreashm this will be smaller though, national focus to begin with. (many libraries new to Koha here as you know) 20:17 cait I am bit jealous that you got a user group :) 20:18 cait we don't have that in Germany yet 20:22 cait maybe someday 20:36 Freddy_Enrique heh.....Germany.... Koha really knows no boundaries 20:47 andreashm sorry cait, was away for a bit. 20:47 cait was distracted too, all good 20:47 andreashm but shouldn't Germany have enough libraries to start a user group by now? 20:48 andreashm the Swedish one is very loosely organized... more of a network than a proper user group. I think that is a good way to start 20:49 cait yeah, but I tihnk the libraries have to start it 20:49 cait so not us :) 20:49 andreashm I think you're right 20:49 cait brb in time for starting the meeting 20:51 * Freddy_Enrique crossing fingers :) 20:56 * LeeJ waves 20:57 LeeJ made it! 20:57 cait me too :) 20:58 cait hi BobB :) 20:58 LeeJ can't figure out why in the world C4::Context->preference('KohaAdminEmailAddress') isn't returning the expected value in an if statement :'( 20:59 BobB hi cait :) 20:59 BobB good morning #koha 20:59 cait do you want to share your code somewhere? 20:59 jzairo hi LeeJ cait 20:59 cait :) 20:59 cait hi jzairo! 20:59 jzairo :) 20:59 * LeeJ waves to BobB and jzairo 20:59 clintD G'day Bob 21:00 * cait is happy to see people arriving 21:00 LeeJ :) 21:00 cait I will give it another minute before starting the meeting 21:00 BobB hi clintD 21:00 Freddy_Enrique what is it there? 21:01 cait hi atheia! 21:01 atheia hello :-) 21:01 atheia How's things? 21:01 Freddy_Enrique I meant, what time is it tehre? 21:01 cait it's 11pm in germany 21:01 pastebot "LeeJ" at 127.0.0.1 pasted "C4::Context->preference() problem" (7 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/630 21:01 cait ok, let's start :) 21:01 LeeJ ok..we can look at my paste after :) 21:02 LeeJ after/tomorrow :) 21:02 BobB its 7am here 21:02 LeeJ let's start :D 21:02 cait #startmeeting Documentation IRC Meeting 31 August 21:02 huginn Meeting started Thu Aug 31 21:02:25 2017 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:02 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 21:02 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'documentation_irc_meeting_31_august' 21:02 * BobB needs coffee 21:02 cait #topic Introductions 21:02 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 21:02 Freddy_Enrique 16:00 p.m here 21:02 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Documentation_IRC_meeting_31_August Today's agenda 21:02 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Argentina 21:02 BobB #info Bob Birchall, Calyx , Australia 21:02 LeeJ #info Lee Jamison, Marywood University 21:02 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 21:03 atheia #info Alex Sassmannshausen, Brussels 21:03 georgewilliams #info George Williams, Northeast Kansas Library System 21:03 clintD #info Clint Deckard-Anact NZ 21:03 jzairo #info 21:03 kellym #info Kelly McElligott Bywater Solutions 21:03 jzairo #info Jessica Zairo - Tampa Florida ByWater Solutions 21:03 kholt #info Karen Holt, ByWater Solutions 21:03 Freddy_Enrique #info Freddy Pelayo, Ensabap, Peru 21:03 irma #info Irma CALYX Australia 21:04 cait wow :) 21:04 LeeJ cait++ 21:04 cait glad to see you all here to talk about documentation 21:04 cait moving on to our first topic 21:04 cait #topic How does it work? 21:04 francharb #info Francois Charbonnier, inLibro, Canada 21:05 cait some of you might be aware that we switched the tools used to write and generate the manual 21:05 francharb yes 21:05 cait up to 17.05 DocBook was used 21:05 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart 21:05 cait and the manual was one big XML file that was a challenge to edit 21:06 cait you'd need specific tools able to handle the file 21:06 cait so for 17.11 rangi has converted the manual to use reStructuredText and Sphinx for generating it 21:06 cait the new syntax is easier to edit 21:06 cait he has also split up the manual into several files 21:07 bag #info Brendan Gallagher ByWater 21:07 cait #info up to 17.05 the manual was using DocBook, now using reStructuredText and Sphinx 21:07 Joubu and the display is better :) 21:07 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Editing_the_Koha_Manual Information how to edit the manual 21:08 cait so now that the technical bits have been improved 21:08 cait we need to start working out how to move forward with how to keep it up to date 21:08 cait but as this is still the 'how does it work topic' - let's talk about this later 21:08 cait if you go to the wiki, you will see that we have tried to describe ways on how to edit the manual 21:08 barton #info Barton Chittenden, bws. 21:08 cait the easiest way is using gitlab, as it doesn't require you to install anything 21:09 TGoat #info TGoat 21:09 wahanui #info TGoat is going to work on fundraising 21:09 cait you can do it all in the browser, make changes to a file and create a 'merge request' that the documentation team will review and then merge into the manual 21:09 LeeJ and I took the liberty of creating a quick YouTube video to demonstrate how to make changes and commit them to be merged! 21:09 cait thx! 21:10 LeeJ #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiwH7-wO2Gs video tutorial how to use GitLab 21:10 cait #info LeeJ created a YouTube video to make the process easier to understand 21:10 atheia I can see it is linked in to the Getting_Involved page. That's cool :-) 21:10 Freddy_Enrique LeeJ++ 21:10 LeeJ :) 21:10 cait nicely jzairo has created a new merge request just before the meeting, so I can show you ;) 21:10 cait #link https://gitlab.com/koha-community-devs-users/kohadocs/merge_requests Merge requests 21:10 LeeJ jzairo++ 21:11 cait if one wants to, you can of course also use git locally and submit changes from there, there is also some instructions for that 21:11 cait and LeeJ has started work to add the tools to the kohadevbox 21:11 cait #info LeeJ has started to add the kohadoc tools to kohadevbox 21:12 LeeJ yes! with tcohen's help we have the ability to enable kohadocs as well as sync the kohadocs repo from the user.yml file 21:12 cait a great plus for Sphinx is that it#s super easy to generate the manual in different formats 21:12 cait html for our websites, but also epub 21:13 cait it's just one command 21:13 LeeJ with that being said, creating a merge request is yet untested via command line as I have had a hard time figuring out a way to connect the keys GitLab requires to do it 21:13 cait #link https://gitlab.com/koha-community-devs-users/kohadocs Instructions on how to create the manual locally 21:13 LeeJ so if anyone would like to help me figure out a way we'd be grateful :) 21:13 cait ok, any questions about the technical stuff? I will try to answer best I can :) 21:14 francharb yes 21:14 Joubu how do we translate it? :) 21:14 cait you are jumping topics heh 21:14 francharb is there a way to generate the manual for 16.05 with sphinx 21:14 francharb ? 21:14 cait both good questions 21:15 cait I think we will talk about translating a little later if that's ok? 21:15 Joubu yep 21:15 cait francharb: I think it would technically be possible, but I am not sure if it makes sense 21:15 cait with the conversion the links in the help files in Koha have to be changed 21:15 cait and also a lot of work has been done to fix some other problems with the conversion like fixing the links inside the manual between chapters 21:16 francharb it's because the translation would be easier from the splitted po files that comes with the new documentation process 21:16 francharb ok 21:16 francharb got it 21:16 cait Joubu++ for doing those 2 things for u 21:16 cait s 21:17 Joubu scripting++ :) 21:17 francharb @cait, @Joubu issues fixed manually? 21:17 huginn francharb: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready 21:17 Joubu francharb: bug 18817 21:17 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=18817 minor, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Update links in the help files for the new 17.11 manual 21:17 Joubu for the links from the Koha codebase 21:18 Joubu and this is the change for the manual: https://gitlab.com/koha-community-devs-users/kohadocs/merge_requests/34 21:19 francharb ok 21:19 francharb thanks 21:19 cait if it's ok i will move on 21:19 cait we will get to the translation bits sooner 21:19 cait #topic What's been done so far 21:19 cait #info We set up instructions and documentation on how to edit the manual 21:20 cait #info Alex Buckley added new chapters for the installation process and onboarding tool 21:20 LeeJ yay! 21:20 Freddy_Enrique heh :) 21:20 cait #info Lee J has updated and added missing system preference up to the current state of things 21:21 cait #info Joubu has fixed the inter-manual links and 17.11 will link to the new manual from the help files 21:21 cait #info Jessica Zairo has added information about the Article Request feature 21:21 cait did I forget something? 21:21 LeeJ uhhh...not that I can think of 21:21 jzairo me either 21:21 cait so we have started, but a lot of work remains :) 21:21 wizzyrea hi 21:21 wahanui hello, wizzyrea 21:22 cait since Nicole started her new job the manual hasn't been regularly updated and we need to do a bit of catch up there 21:22 cait #link https://annuel2.framapad.org/p/KohaManualTodo to-do list for manual work 21:22 BobB yeah, from time to time we come across the gaps 21:23 cait I have started a 'framapad' that works like an etherpad, so everyone can just go in and add something 21:23 cait #action all if you notice something is missing from the manual or needs to be corrected, please add a note to the to-do list 21:23 cait I have listed some of the bigger tasks at the top, but there is also a heading for every chapter 21:24 cait for example you could also help by taking the release notes and checking them against the manual, so we get a list of things to add 21:24 cait you can see that jzairo has added a note 'added JZ' to MarcItemFieldsToOrder (description needed) 21:25 cait that's the one in the merge request I showed earlier 21:25 cait jzairo++ 21:25 LeeJ I'd also like to point out that from what I've looked over, the cronjobs section is a bit...haphazard :) 21:25 cait oh yes 21:25 LeeJ heh 21:26 cait #info Katrin has removed the SOPAC2 related chapters 21:26 wizzyrea cait++ 21:26 cait #link https://koha-community.org/manual/17.11/html/ Sneak peak for the 17.11 manual created with Sphinx 21:26 cait peek... 21:26 cait ? 21:26 wizzyrea peek :) 21:27 wizzyrea (but it's ok) 21:27 cait at the moment that's generated manually by rangi - so it will not be updated immediately with a merge, but you will be able to see your changes there 21:27 cait and also good for checking what's still missing of course 21:27 LeeJ perhaps it might be helpful if whoever adds a note to the to-do list to include a bug number next to their entry if it would be helpful in documenting the item to be added 21:28 francharb is it planned to document how to generate the manual bu yourself? 21:28 cait it won't be linked to for now - as we are still working on things and 17.11 has not been released yet 21:28 cait francharb: we already have, take alook at the gitlab start page for the kohadocs I linked earlier 21:28 cait it's super easy, clone the kohadocs repo, install some packages, run vrey few commands 21:28 francharb perfect! 21:28 wahanui perfect is the enemy of good 21:29 cait kellym++ I just saw another merge request in my inbox :D 21:29 cait ok, now comes the hard part 21:29 kellym I am working with Jzairo on learning the process! 21:29 cait #topic Next steps 21:30 cait the manual is huuuuuuuge 21:30 BobB and getting huger :) 21:30 cait we think keeping it current can't be done by a single person - we need a team of people doing this 21:30 LeeJ ^exactly 21:31 cait so we worked to make it as easy as we can and we can help everyone who wants to give it a try 21:31 Brooke it's been a bear for a few years now 21:31 barton could we split it apart? 21:31 cait but rangi and me can't write it all :) even with the help we already got, the more the better it will be 21:31 LeeJ and I've been helping when I can :D 21:32 cait barton: if someone wanted to take on a chapter or so - just note it on the todo list 21:32 francharb @cait, to me the problem is that sometimes I'm not even sure how new features work 21:32 huginn francharb: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready 21:33 cait #info manual writing is not a single person job - needs a team of people 21:33 barton ouch huginn, too soon. 21:33 atheia Part of this could be solved by making it a requirement of the QA process to have a draft chapter for the manual for new features perhaps? 21:33 atheia (was that already decided upon?) 21:33 jzairo teamwork! 21:33 cait not yet 21:33 francharb can we ask the sign-offer to do a bit of wrap up about what they tested and how the feature works? 21:33 LeeJ I second atheia's suggestion 21:33 francharb me too 21:34 atheia Well — personally I think it should be the dev's responsibility… 21:34 cait francharb: we could but actually the developers should provide that with their commit messages 21:34 cait and test plans 21:34 wahanui test plans are awesome. at least it gives context for where to go even if minimal. 21:34 LeeJ that's actually a great idea 21:34 cait if anything is unclear, it's always ok to note on the bug and ask 21:34 francharb +1 21:34 cait also sign-offers can take notes of course, where something additional had to be set up 21:34 atheia agreed. 21:35 cait i try that when I run into sometihng, but not sure we can make it a general rule, but it#s a rule that we should have test plans and descriptive commit messages 21:35 cait Joubu just sent an emai ltoday to remind devs :) 21:35 georgewilliams I think asking sign-offers to do more is problematic considering how hard it can be to get people just to sign off on things 21:35 cait georgewilliams: yeah, I am a ibt worried about that too 21:35 francharb true 21:35 atheia +1 21:36 TGoat that's what so important about fundraising georgewilliams .. but that's a whole different topic 21:36 cait but yeah, if you don't understand, please ask and make notes 21:36 cait even documentation bug reports 21:36 atheia Whereas if an organization / individual has a stake in adding a feature, they would also have the incentive to document it (even if they don't enjoy that process) 21:36 BobB cait the 'todo' list is where everything is controlled? 21:37 BobB so if working on something, we should grab it there? 21:37 cait #action all - a 'Manual' keyword has been added to Bugzilla - please mark bugs that you think needs something added or changed in the manual (ideally with a comment) 21:37 BobB it would be sad to document something and then find someone else beat you to it 21:37 cait BobB: for now I think yes - I wanted to keep it a bit lower barrier than bugzilla even 21:37 barton I think that documentation should be a QA requirement -- not necessarily that the dev needs to do it themselves, but they should be responsible for making sure that it gets done. 21:37 cait if that doesn't work we can of course do something else 21:37 Joubu I think the developper must provide a description of what the new ft/enh is supposed to do. But it would make sense to have dedicated persons to "translate" developper language into manual sentences :) 21:37 BobB barton +1 21:38 georgewilliams Joubu+ 21:38 LeeJ barton++ Joubu++ 21:38 atheia Barton, I like your idea. 21:38 irma Joubu+ 21:38 Joubu I will be terrible at describing correctly what my features do :) 21:38 Freddy_Enrique Joubu++ 21:38 cait #action all - if you start working on some addition to the manual, please add a note on the to-do list (like 'cait working on this') 21:39 rangi here now 21:40 cait there is also a module for documentation on Bugzilla 21:40 atheia Whilst I understand your perspective Joubu [some people just aren't great communicators — or there might be language issues for devs], at the same time I feel devs should be expected to take responsibility for the code they add by documenting it. 21:40 cait I will try to add saved searches for both and the links to the wiki and the to-do list 21:40 LeeJ hi rangi 21:40 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2 Technologies, India 21:40 atheia That's why I like Barton's harder requirement of the dev/organization having responsibility to get someone to write the documentation. 21:40 cait #action cait to add saved searches and links to them for the Manual keyword and Documentation module from Bugzilla 21:40 atheia That could be a dedicated specialist or anyone else… 21:42 cait I am not sure we have the people for that 21:42 Joubu The manual needs to keep a certain homogeneity/consistency, if 30 different guys are going to describe features in 30 different ways... it will be a mess 21:42 cait but devs should try to document as best as they can 21:42 rangi Joubu: thats what editors do 21:42 rangi im happy to edit 21:42 georgewilliams rangi+ 21:42 rangi but i dont have time to read everyones features to figure out what they do 21:42 Joubu I would prefer to work with someone, incrementaly 21:43 rangi if they write it as best they can, i can edit that 21:43 rangi (new features this is) 21:43 bag also that is too much work 21:43 BobB the workflow is that the documentor submits a merge request? then an editor can finesse it, is that right? 21:43 Joubu rangi: yes, it's more or less what we said, devs have to describe the feature in the commit message + test plan already 21:43 rangi Joubu: yeah, but they don't ;) 21:43 rangi BobB: yes 21:43 barton bag: supporting undocumented features is a lot of work too. 21:43 cait yep or can help the committer improve it 21:44 Joubu maybe they don't, but they should 21:44 cait yeah i think if we have a good manual, we are also less likely to break features noone knew about (hopefully) :) 21:44 Joubu (and have to) 21:44 bag I mean for an editor barton ;) 21:44 rangi bag: we have a coms team at work i can lean on for help 21:44 atheia Joubu — just to clarify, do you also agree that having this description, whether as a draft chapter or extensive commit messages, should be a QA requirement for new features? 21:45 atheia ah k, 21:45 cait atheia: itis 21:45 rangi what they cant do is figure out from a 10 line commit message what the feature does 21:45 atheia sorry saw your later messag later :-) 21:45 rangi but they can certainly tidy up peoples english 21:45 cait i mean we already have rules about test plans and commit messages 21:46 bag sweet - up - let’s get all the commits first - and then we can figure out the quality aspect - and it looks like rangi’s got ideas for that 21:46 rangi we must all have some specs/docs from the people who want the feature right? even making them available would help 21:46 cait yep 21:47 cait and if a library writes something and is not sure about how to get it in the manual 21:47 rangi jzairo++ 21:47 cait I am willing to format it 21:47 LeeJ would it be worth entertaining the idea of a documentation/manual notes textarea in the bug header? For example, say under the field "Text to go in the release notes"? 21:47 LeeJ in terms of bugs for new features 21:47 rangi i think its easier to find people to 'fix' stuff, than to write stuff :) 21:47 bag hmm not a bad idea 21:47 Brooke LeeJ +1 21:47 wizzyrea vaguely hard with screen shots. 21:47 barton LeeJ +1 21:47 cait I was going to suggest to revive the koha-docs mailing list for things like that 21:48 cait LeeJ: I am not sure, but the fields might be limited in size 21:48 bag good point wizzyrea - can we hack bugzilla to meet that need? 21:48 indradg cait +1 21:48 rangi i like the ml idea 21:48 barton I'd subscribe to koha-docs in a heartbeat. 21:48 rangi because people dont need a login for that 21:48 cait sec I wil get a link 21:48 cait hm they have to sign up tho 21:49 rangi yeah but thats it 21:49 rangi then the mail just arrives 21:49 bag is a login a big barrier - (I don’t know) 21:49 Joubu Why not use the regular one with a [koha-docs] tag? That can motivate people to be involved if they see stuffs going on 21:49 LeeJ wizzyrea maybe have some sort of annotation mark in the potential documentation textarea corresponding to a bug attachment of screenshots? 21:49 cait #link https://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-docs koha-docs mailing list - send us things for the manual! 21:49 cait LeeJ: the area is very small, maybe easier to just write a comment and set the keyword 21:49 wizzyrea my honest opinion is that bugzilla isn't the place for that 21:49 cait or sent an email to the koha-docs 21:49 rangi hell if people just put a letter in an envelope and mailed it to me 21:49 wizzyrea it's not the best tool. 21:50 rangi it would be better than now 21:50 cait +1 21:50 rangi but i think the ml is good, because lots of people can see it 21:50 LeeJ just throwing out ideas :) 21:50 rangi we can certainly use the release notes from bugzilla too 21:50 cait I think we need to built this up - we will happily take any submissions and help people who want to help 21:50 rangi teo 21:50 rangi yep even 21:50 rangi ill take it by carrier pigeon if need be :) 21:51 cait [off] https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Chris_Cormack ? :) 21:51 indradg how about filing a linked documentation bug to every new feature / enhancement? The QA tool can check for existence linked doc bug for enh etc? The doc team / volunteers can track the open doc bugs and expand on the dev notes with screenshots and such? 21:51 LeeJ [off] hahahahahaha 21:51 rangi yes thats the documentation bird 21:52 rangi indradg: that would be good, ideally, but also just random pastes, etc are fine too, what we are lacking is content, not process :) 21:52 bag yes content is the key 21:52 cait it's also a little easier for now to just add the keyword to the bug 21:53 cait less work for the person going through those atm 21:53 rangi if suddenly we get so much, that we need to implement stricter process, we can deal with that, i will love that to happen, but for now, however people want to submit changes is great 21:53 cait but we might get to a more refined process once the ball is rolling 21:53 rangi yes, what she said 21:53 rangi :) 21:53 bag what is the current content rate - 2~3 a week? 21:53 rangi a month 21:54 bag wow 21:54 cait yep, we got room to improve ;) 21:54 rangi without LeeJ, jzairo, cait, and kelly .. its almost zero 21:54 Freddy_Enrique holy..... 21:54 bag That’s probably an important data point to be included as an #note or whateever in the meeting notes 21:54 cait to give some examples 21:54 cait we are looking for people to write: 21:54 cait - patron clubs 21:55 cait - advanced cataloguing editor (rancor) 21:55 jzairo I can get patrons clubs in there 21:55 cait - housebound 21:55 jzairo and an update for rancor 21:55 cait :) 21:55 LeeJ jzairo++ 21:55 cait just to give examples for big stuff that is missing 21:55 cait and being missed! 21:56 bag awesome jzairo - we need to recruit others to help submit ;) 21:56 bag probably a good thing to bring to the kohaus meetings jzairo 21:56 cait Bywater has some great tutorials (love them) - a lot of that would make good manual content 21:56 atheia Ooh housebound has no documentation? 21:56 LeeJ cait: maybe a good starting point would be just to compile a list in the to-do of just the titles of missing entries? 21:56 atheia I should be able to get a draft for that… 21:56 cait atheia: developer missed to write it up ;) 21:56 Joubu vi misc/cronjobs/CONFIGURE.gmail 21:56 atheia indeed *blush* 21:56 Joubu oops, sorry 21:56 TGoat georgewilliams and CrispyBran are here jzairo 21:56 bag and TGoat ^^ 21:57 rangi heh, multitasking Joubu 21:57 Joubu (wt is that??) 21:57 cait LeeJ: yep - I think release notes woudl be good starting point, check enh listed there 21:57 cait #action atheia to write something about housebound 21:57 bag atheia++ you’re all good dood 21:57 rangi with the tool alexbuckley_ is working on, it would be great to link the bits straight to the manual too 21:57 cait jzairo: do you really want to take on both? or start with patron clubs? :) 21:57 CrispyBran ??? 21:57 rangi (the list of heres what changed in your upgrade too) 21:57 rangi tool even 21:58 jzairo I have been working with kidclamp on rancor 21:58 rangi cool 21:58 jzairo and khall talked to me about patron clubs 21:58 jzairo so I can try and tackle both of those 21:58 cait #action jzairo to take on patron clubs and advanced cataloguing 21:59 TGoat jzairo++ 21:59 cait cool :) 21:59 cait i am sure there will be more on the list to pick soon! 22:00 cait i'd like to add another topic to talk about translation, if that's ok? 22:00 BobB ok 22:00 cait #topic Translation 22:00 Joubu yes! :) 22:00 cait sorry you had to wait so long Joubu :) 22:00 barton #link https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&list_id=211550&namedcmd=Open%20Documentation 22:00 TGoat cheer up Joubu :D 22:00 cait barton: coudl you add in Keyword = Manual? that would be awesome 22:01 cait hm not sure you can do or 22:01 Joubu barton: does not work 22:01 cait so translation 22:01 wahanui so translation is working now too? 22:01 cait with DocBook the translation was done using a po file 22:01 bgkriegel Hi, I was working on this a bit 22:01 barton Joubu: I think I need to make it public. 22:01 cait Sonia noted on the list that she would really like to add translated screenshots too 22:02 bgkriegel to translate you need to generate po files, and then translate them 22:02 barton cait: Keyword = Manual => Zarro Boogs found. 22:02 bgkriegel I need to install a tool, sphinx-intl 22:02 cait barton: hm can't be - I will try and take a look later 22:03 bgkriegel for example: make gettext; sphinx-intl update --language=fr; translate po in source/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/; make -e SPHINXOPTS="-D language='fr'" html 22:04 bgkriegel i used old translations, with a bit of scripting to fix things 22:04 bgkriegel here you can see the result: http://translate.koha-community.org/manual/16.11/ 22:04 francharb which version are you working on @bgkriegel? 22:04 bgkriegel those are old languages 22:04 francharb ok 22:04 francharb 16.11 22:04 bgkriegel francharb: not the last one 22:05 bgkriegel but it's doable 22:05 francharb I think Sonia was also aksing how to get the manual files for 17.05 22:05 cait with all the changes coming in, i am not sure when it will make sense to start translating 22:05 bgkriegel each language adds 2~3 Mb of space, perhaps we could add the files to the repo 22:05 bgkriegel po files 22:05 wahanui po files are outdated 22:05 cait do the translations carry over if no changes? 22:05 francharb It should be 22:06 atheia I'm afraid I have to clock off — sorry for leaving mid-meeting. Au revoir! 22:06 francharb the same way translation works for the interface 22:06 bgkriegel yeap 22:06 francharb we don't stop translation for the interface because of new features... 22:07 francharb I guess it's doable having new material for the manuel and translating at the same time 22:07 LeeJ I too have to head out..I'm available by email if anyone needs to reach me :) 22:07 bgkriegel I added those po files on translation server: http://translate.koha-community.org/projects/man1611/ 22:07 cait bgkriegel++ 22:07 francharb thanks @<bgkriegel> 22:08 cait so what's the next step? i think the first Sphinx manual we have is 17.05 - right rangi? 22:08 francharb Question : how often should the manual po files be updated ? 22:08 bgkriegel but I need to do the same job for 17.05 22:08 tajoli #info Zeno Tajoli, CINECA, Italy 22:08 bgkriegel 16.11 use sphinx 22:09 cait ah, i htink we just didn't link it then 22:10 cait #info bgkriegel is working on creating po files for the new manuals 22:10 cait about the screenshots - I told Sonia it should be possible 22:10 bgkriegel The result is not good for arabic, perhaps I need to research a bit more how to do it for RTL languages 22:10 cait maybe sending the fiels with the same file names? 22:11 cait #info still some issues with Arabic (RTL languages) 22:11 Joubu so basically, what can we say to Sonia? 22:12 Joubu When will she be able to translate the manual in French? 22:12 francharb Is it planned to have this page http://translate.koha-community.org/manual/ generated automaticly every day, every week? 22:12 Joubu bgkriegel: (Hi!!) What need to be done to be ready? Do you need help? 22:12 francharb So we can work on the manual translation and see the results ? 22:12 bgkriegel yeap, will do it 22:12 cait i didn't know about that page! 22:13 bgkriegel ( Hi Joubu:)! ) 22:13 francharb For now, we can't control the the translation easily 22:13 cait #link http://translate.koha-community.org/manual/ translated manuals overview page 22:13 francharb @cait, I discovered it recently as well 22:13 huginn francharb: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready 22:13 francharb I love you huginn 22:14 cait ok, moving on? :) 22:15 cait #topic Getting more people involved 22:15 cait actually we talked a bit about this 22:15 tajoli About https://koha-community.org/documentation/ ? 22:15 cait please if you run across someone who you think would want to help, tell them :) 22:15 cait or if someone has a great documentation they could share 22:15 Joubu not sure I understood, maybe I missed something, will reread 22:15 tajoli There are missing link 22:15 tajoli links 22:16 cait ok, before we close 22:16 cait any questions left open? things people want to add? 22:16 tajoli Manuals in french and italian are not linked 22:17 bgkriegel tajoli: not generated yet 22:17 bgkriegel will do later 22:17 cait #topic Set date of next meeting 22:17 cait is there interest in holding another meeting, maybe in a month? 22:18 jzairo yes cait 22:18 BobB i think we should, for sure 22:18 wizzyrea someone please let me know when the manual links on the website need to be added for italian and french 22:18 georgewilliams yes 22:19 cait september 6th? 22:19 wizzyrea october you mean? 22:19 BobB that's next week cait 22:19 cait #info Let wizzyrea know when links need to be added to manuals on k-c.org 22:19 cait just can't read a calendar 22:19 wizzyrea :) 22:19 georgewilliams do you mean october 6? 22:19 cait 29th i think 22:19 cait was what i meant :) 22:19 cait last week of the next month 22:20 BobB not Friday please - it becomes Saturday here 22:20 cait i was aiming for thursday 22:20 cait it's too late for me :) 22:20 cait 28th 22:20 cait same time? 22:21 BobB same time works for me :) 22:21 georgewilliams same time is good here 22:21 clintD 28th Sept? 22:21 francharb thanks for the meeting. hope i can make it for the next one! anydate should work for me 22:21 francharb bye 22:21 jzairo good for me 22:21 cait yes clintD 22:21 tajoli About links to italian manuals: I think could be added as soon as possibile. 3.20, 3.22 adnd 16.05 are 100% translated 22:21 cait #agreed Next meeting will be on 28th September, 22 UTC 22:22 cait #endmeeting 22:22 huginn Meeting ended Thu Aug 31 22:22:06 2017 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 22:22 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2017/documentation_irc_meeting_31_august.2017-08-31-21.02.html 22:22 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2017/documentation_irc_meeting_31_august.2017-08-31-21.02.txt 22:22 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2017/documentation_irc_meeting_31_august.2017-08-31-21.02.log.html 22:22 cait thanks to all! 22:22 jzairo cait++ 22:22 jzairo thank you cait! 22:22 irma cait+++ 22:22 BobB thank you cait, awesome job again 22:22 georgewilliams thanks 22:22 kholt cait++ 22:22 tajoli thanks 22:22 Joubu cait++ so... for the translation? :D 22:22 cait Joubu: I lay it in the trustworthy hands of bgkriegel :) 22:23 bgkriegel cait++ :) 22:23 cait and give the editing a try... it can be fun :) 22:24 clintD thanks cait. lots to learn 22:24 Kafilini thanks 22:24 cait come and find me here if you get stuck - will help 22:24 cait and fixing a typo just for trying it out is perfectly fine :) 22:24 clintD will do 22:25 tajoli Wizzyrea: I ask to add also 3.20 link. It is still used in Italy 22:25 wizzyrea do you have the link? 22:25 Joubu should not... 22:26 wizzyrea yeah, you should not do that. :/ 22:26 wizzyrea actually 22:26 wizzyrea now I'm thinking about it 22:26 wizzyrea we only put the manual links on there for supported versions. 22:26 bgkriegel Ok, need to go, bye all :) 22:27 wizzyrea (and there may be some curation needed going backwards to support that) 22:27 tajoli 3.20: http://translate.koha-community.org/manual/3.20/it/html/ 22:27 tajoli 3.22: http://translate.koha-community.org/manual/3.22/it/html/ 22:27 wizzyrea I will make a new page for unsupported versions. 22:28 tajoli 16.05: http://translate.koha-community.org/manual/16.05/it/html/ 22:29 tajoli Ok Wizzyrea. 22:29 wahanui wizzyrea is here to help. And sometimes hinder. But mostly help. 22:36 wizzyrea tajoli is that better https://koha-community.org/documentation/documentation-unsupported-versions/ 22:37 wizzyrea it certainly makes the documentation page cleaner. 22:37 wizzyrea https://koha-community.org/documentation/ 22:38 tajoli I also think it's a good idea 22:41 tajoli # quit