Time  Nick          Message
16:58 liw           rsantellan, I have to leave that decision to Koha developers, since I know so little of Koha
16:56 rsantellan    liw: after reading the docs is hard for me to think why migrate all data, I think that only the borrowers is worth saving there. But thats just my humble opinion, I'm no expert
16:48 liw           rsantellan, the qvarn api has searches, https://github.com/qvarn/qvarn/blob/master/docs/qvarn-api-doc/050-api-overview.yarn#L695 describes them
16:47 rsantellan    liw: how you deal with queries on qvarn?
16:45 liw           no worries
16:45 ashimema      thanks for the chat.. been really enlightening
16:45 * ashimema    has to go feed hungry kids
16:45 ashimema      haha
16:44 ashimema      which is great for customers.. but a nightmare if you want to change schema at all.. because all the public 'copy/paste' sql reports break
16:44 ashimema      one of the biggest anoyances koha side liw is our reports system.. it's fantastically flexible as it's just 'plain sql' based..
16:43 liw           I would keep all data in qvarn, but a) I'm clearly biased and b) I don't like sql :)
16:43 ashimema      so keeping all the data in the same place, then having an overall abstraction for the permissions for each piece of it makes sense to me.. I think
16:43 ashimema      I think you could say.. all data is sensitive once context is gained
16:42 ashimema      (with Gluu)
16:42 ashimema      perhaps Qvarn is where I should be going with that
16:42 ashimema      only I've not yet extracted it into the IdP layer
16:42 ashimema      I do like the idea of a nice centralised place to do permissions.. it's axactly what I've been working on in one of my projects
16:41 ashimema      yeah.. what rsantellan said ;)
16:41 liw           ashimema, yep
16:41 ashimema      so Gluu is the abstraction of where the levels of permissions go.. Qvarn is the thing that understands those permissions relations to actual data
16:41 liw           rsantellan, that's a good point
16:40 rsantellan    liw: I understand in a sense the borrowers information becuase acording to qvarn is dealing with sensitive nature data, but I don't see the benefit of moving all the data from a relational DB to qvarn
16:40 liw           qvarn isn't the ultimate solution to every problem in computing. give me time :)
16:40 ashimema      so.. Gluu, the IdP authenticates the 'person' and the 'application'..  (as that's what an IdP does).. the rights of what the application can do on the persons behalf with their data are defined in Gluu.
16:39 liw           sounds like you do, yes
16:38 ashimema      coolios.. yes.. i do undertsand then now
16:37 ashimema      in the qvarn sense.. because your connecting to the datastore with a reduced privilege the code wuoldn't be able to continue unless it's written well enough to deal with the restricted privilege
16:37 liw           ashimema, the app doesn't get to choose, the "sysadmin" configures that in Gluu
16:37 ashimema      it's then upto the application logic to prevent leaks.. which we're mostly good at catching during qa
16:36 liw           one aspect koha would need to deal with is the modelling of the data into json objects, which is potentially a lot of work but can be good in the long run; also, qvarn support versioning of resource types and handsles most of the schema changes automatically, in case that's of interest
16:36 ashimema      we connect to mysql/postgres with an all powerful db user
16:36 ashimema      So koha as an example
16:35 ashimema      which is in effect what people do now ;)
16:35 ashimema      is there anything to prevent the developer from just say.. sod this i'll attach with the highest access user to make my life easier when developing
16:35 ashimema      I see..
16:35 ashimema      cool.. I understand.. it's a strong encouragement.. practically enforcement once you've made the choice to use qvarn.. to follow privacy best practices.. that many of us overlook with current systems
16:34 liw           yeah
16:34 ashimema      so it sort of feels like just trying to standardise a description of access
16:33 ashimema      so is the application developer responsible for saying what authorization level different data's are restricted to?
16:31 liw           ashimema, and yes, bringing it "in house" is a good way to describe it
16:31 wahanui       interesting is, like, sometimes good and sometimes bad
16:31 ashimema      interesting
16:30 liw           (or time of day or whatever one can implement)
16:30 ashimema      ok.. now that sounds like a fairly nice addition
16:30 ashimema      ahh.. strength of authn
16:30 liw           with qvarn the actual user and the application can authenticate separately (though this isn't fully done yet), and access control can be decided (once qvarn is written to support it) based also on things like strength of authn
16:30 ashimema      i.e. your always looking at data from an individual 'persons' stance as a posed to the 'application'
16:29 ashimema      am I right in thinking that qvarn in effect brings this layer 'in house'
16:29 ashimema      and then the application is responsible for the 'person' whose accessing the application to only be able to retrieve the data they have rights upon
16:28 ashimema      the 'user' in 99% of cases is actually the 'application' and thus is usually given lots of rights all over the place..
16:28 ashimema      in the SQL world, said user can be limited down to the table level as to what they can do with that data (select, update, insert, delete etc, etc)
16:27 ashimema      one accesses a datastore as a 'user', and that user has certian rights to take certain actions on various bits of that datastore
16:27 ashimema      So.. in my head
16:26 liw           I'm not sure I'm good at explaining this either
16:24 liw           ashimema, all access goes via a single point that provides much more detailed access control than sql does
16:24 ashimema      I feel I'm asking the right questions.. though I might be appearing a bit ignorant/dim ;)
16:24 rsantellan    same here
16:24 drojf         not much to contribute but interested and reading
16:23 drojf         ashimema: please go on
16:23 ashimema      I'm spamming the main chat.. sorry everyone..
16:22 ashimema      that's the missing link in my head I think
16:22 ashimema      I don't understand how it provides better privacy I suppose
16:22 liw           it's meant to be the storage backend for a web application, the way a relational database is (butt with better privacty)
16:18 * ashimema    is still digging into the use case ;)
16:18 ashimema      is it meant as a central location for just the personal data.. so is one meant to use it alongside an application level datastore?
16:14 ashimema_     :)
16:12 liw           ashimema_, also I think you understand qvarn fairly well, in fact; it doesn't do much (no application logic, for example), but tries to do what it does well
16:11 liw           ashimema_, qvarn uses openid connect (which is built on top of oauth2) and the idp (gluu) is installed with it, yes
16:10 ashimema_     I really want to built OAuth2 Authorization into koha's rest api and adopt OpenID Connect for authentication.. so perhaps Qbarn can give us some of that 'for free' as such?
16:09 ashimema_     with an IdP built in
16:06 ashimema_     I'm likely missing somthing
16:06 ashimema_     to me it feels like another datastore (elastic search, mongdb, postgres, mysql even) with a secure web facing api
16:05 ashimema_     I am interesting in Qvarn though.. I don't entirely understand it's use case though yet ;)
16:05 ashimema_     yeah..
16:05 liw           I don't expect Qvarn adoption by Koha, if it ever happens, to happen soon. big old code bases move slowly
16:05 ashimema_     yeah.. it's slow and painful ;)
16:04 liw           ah, I didn't notice there was already  movement towards the abstraction I was suggesting
16:02 ashimema_     that's my thoughts anyways
16:01 ashimema_     Qvarn is interesting.. and you've identified my biggest issue with koha.. that controller and model are not well separated yet.. but I don't tihnk we're in any position to switch to 'yet another data store' any time soon.. we need to actualyl abstract out the model first.. be that koha::objects, dbic whatever
16:00 reiveune      bye
15:59 drojf         https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation
15:59 drojf         "The regulation was adopted on 27 April 2016. It enters into application 25 May 2018 after a two-year transition period"
15:58 drojf         according to the log
15:58 drojf         rangi changed it to end of next year in the meeting
15:57 wahanui       2014 is probably gonna be great
15:57 cait          2014?
15:57 ashimema_     and the codebase is generally being refactored to use them.. it just takes times
15:57 cait          just the transition time is a little odd
15:56 ashimema_     liw we do have dbix::class and koha::objects..
15:55 ashimema_     didn't realise you had anything to do with qvarn liw
15:55 cait          liw++ :)
15:54 drojf         don't remember that at all, i guess i missed it
15:54 drojf         ah. http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/2016-11-09#i_1876711
15:52 drojf         liw: i think rangi brought up qvarn at an irc meeting but we postponed it (or i forgot what it was about). i did not know you are involved
15:52 liw           heh
15:51 drojf         :P
15:51 drojf         tl;dr
15:47 liw           ok, thanks
15:47 drojf         we will survive a duplicate
15:47 drojf         just resend
15:47 liw           but that might be an acceptable risk
15:46 liw           I could resend but it might result in duplicates if the moderator approvaes the first one  later
15:46 drojf         If you are having trouble using the lists, please contact mailman@lists.koha-community.org.
15:46 liw           I fully understand
15:46 drojf         liw: resend? or poke someone at biblibre, but i forgot who does the mailing lists
15:45 drojf         liw: i bet it is, the main list is too. for spam reasons
15:45 liw           I sent a mail to koha-devel a little while ago, but it's not gone through. I the list moderated for non-subscribers? I've since subscribed, but that' be too late
15:36 LibraryClaire laters #koha
14:41 fridolin      i was running with JS off via Firebug for tests
14:41 fridolin      its a choc
14:41 fridolin      0%
14:41 fridolin      it means Koha staff interface can to be used without JS anymore
14:41 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15111 critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle, RESOLVED FIXED, Koha is vulnerable to Cross-Frame Scripting (XFS) attacks
14:41 fridolin      whaaouuuu Bug 15111
13:29 huginn        cait: The operation succeeded.
13:29 cait          @later tell marcelr I don't think so - the plan is to start on monday, but no bug fixes pushed so far
13:16 ashimema      things like moving parameters out of the path definition make very little sense.. you need that context in the path definition to understand what the route is meant to do
13:15 ashimema      lari.. when i get a moment I'll submit a patchset to tidy them into a more manageable standards based set of splits..
12:53 rsantellan    good morning #koha
12:52 lari          ashimema: can you explain your thoughts bit more? what would you prefer instead? maybe e-mail me
12:51 marcelr       you don't have a branch yet ?
12:50 marcelr       hi cait
12:48 cait          hm no kidclamp
12:41 marcelr       i like the title
12:41 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17681 trivial, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Needs Signoff , Exiisting typos might thow some feees when recieved
12:41 marcelr       bug 17681
12:29 ashimema      I think we loose too much context with the way we split up our spec
12:28 ashimema      hmm.. it's nice to have a reference for it
12:25 lari          ashimema: hi :) ! the crazy ~1 is an escaped slash in JSON pointer, as defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6901#section-3
12:00 petter        hei magnus!
11:53 magnuse       have fun #koha!
11:53 magnuse       kia ora petter!
10:59 magnuse       so true
10:59 wahanui       lunchtime is a terrible time for a meeting
10:59 magnuse       lunchtime!
10:46 marcelr       Joubu: i once saw a change to lowercase in my testing, but cannot reproduce it anymore ;) no fails btw in 5.5
10:26 Joubu         lari: ^
10:26 Joubu         you should see with Lari
10:25 * cait        waves
10:24 ashimema      but I'd really like to know the reasons behind some of e decisions in the first place..
10:24 ashimema      I'm coming back on the scene and intend on fixing lots of this..
10:24 ashimema      oh well
10:24 ashimema      you loose huge amounts of context
10:24 ashimema      we've split up out spec way too much too.. I'm pretty sure I said not to split it the way it's ended up :(
10:23 ashimema      to me.. it's adding crap for adding craps sake ;)
10:22 ashimema      in either swagger or mojo
10:22 ashimema      it's nothing I've ever come across working with swagger for the past 2 years
10:11 Joubu         Is not a swagger separator?
10:10 ashimema      :(
10:10 ashimema      It got dismissed with a sweeping statement of 'it's best practice' at the hackfest.. but I've never seen it anywhere before and googling turns up nothing.. and all it appears to do to me is make it much harder to read
10:10 Joubu         ashimema: no idea
10:09 ashimema      the ~1 cruft that's in there..
10:09 ashimema      joubu.. do you understand the crazy syntax being used in paths.json for the swagger routing?
09:55 marcelr       will do some testing too, thx
09:55 Joubu         marcelr: I think I have tried yesterday yes
09:54 wahanui       sure is :)
09:54 marcelr       sure?
09:54 Joubu         marcelr: the convert will fail if there are lower and upercase
09:53 huginn        04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=17676 critical, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Signed Off , Default COLLATE for marc_subfield_structure is not set
09:53 marcelr       Joubu: bug 17676 why not do a CONVERT TO and only change tagsubfield afterwards in the old db rev 3.19 instead of going through all fields ? You did a convert for all other tables
09:51 marcelr       hi eythian
09:45 wahanui       salut, eythian
09:45 eythian       hi
09:03 Joubu         sunny: try to remove the STRICT_TRANS_TABLES sql_mode from your mysql config file
09:02 Joubu         sunny: nope, it seems that you are using MySQL > 5.6 or 5.7
08:43 sunny         should i re-install ?
08:42 * drojf       adds some confusion, leaves for tea
08:41 drojf         but the repository is not changed yet
08:41 drojf         technically, it is oldstable now
08:41 sunny         my english is not well
08:40 sunny         not old stable
08:40 sunny         stable
08:39 wahanui       koha 16.05 is just 3.24
08:39 sunny         koha 16.05
08:39 sunny         DBIx::Class::Storage::DBI::_dbh-execute(): Date truncated for column 'type ' at......
08:38 Joubu         check logs to know what is the error
08:38 cait          and what is the error?
08:38 wahanui       well, which version is recommended?
08:38 cait          which version?
08:37 sunny         hello. everyone,i got a problem.when i doing web installer step3,click "import", there is a sofeware error
08:35 gaetan_B      morning cait :)
08:35 cait          morning #koha
08:35 cait          morning gaetan_B :)
08:34 gaetan_B      hello
07:57 reiveune      salut LibraryClaire
07:57 LibraryClaire hi reiveune
07:55 wahanui       hey, reiveune
07:55 reiveune      hello
07:54 LibraryClaire hi Joubu
07:54 fridolin      hie there
07:54 wahanui       privet, Joubu
07:54 Joubu         Hi
07:46 wahanui       what's up, alex_a
07:46 alex_a        bonjour
07:34 marcelr       hi LibraryClaire
07:34 LibraryClaire hi marcelr
07:34 marcelr       hi #koha
07:22 magnuse       went there for swib 3 years ago
07:21 magnuse       yup
07:20 LibraryClaire nice :)
07:20 magnuse       so 4 whole days
07:20 magnuse       from this evening until midday wednesday
07:19 LibraryClaire magnuse: how long are you going to be in Hamburg?
07:15 LibraryClaire hihi
07:15 magnuse       ja, sehr gut!
07:15 drojf         wie schön
07:15 magnuse       heute fahren wir nach hamburg!
07:15 LibraryClaire *magnuse
07:15 magnuse       guten morgen BüchereiKlara und drojf
07:15 LibraryClaire hej magnus
07:15 LibraryClaire moin drojf
07:14 LibraryClaire :D
07:14 * magnuse     waves
07:14 drojf         guten morgen GuteLauneKlara
07:13 LibraryClaire hi #koha :)
06:27 drojf         dcook: it's only for debian, so makefile.pl is probably not the right place. but to be honest i never added a folder to koha before
06:21 dcook         I'm sure you'll tell me if it's wrong in the end, drojf : )_
06:21 dcook         I followed the same pattern as Zebra, and I think that'll be OK
06:21 dcook         Hmm maybe I won't worry about Makefile.PL
06:20 dcook         jois: Bywater Solutions have a bunch of Youtube videos
06:20 jois          is there any demo or video tutorials to learn all the features of koha?
06:18 dcook         But it's 5:18pm..
06:18 dcook         drojf: Hmm I think maybe I've screwed up Makefile.PL then if it's supposed to use scripts/koha-create-dirs
06:17 irma          jois https://www.loc.gov/marc/faq.html MARC21 is a standard for entering bibliographic information into a computer record that can be used by library automation systems to provide a library catalogue.
06:17 dcook         Oh that's not too bad..
06:17 huginn        dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, Australia is 22.0°C (5:00 PM AEDT on November 25, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 53%. Dew Point: 12.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
06:17 dcook         @wunder syd
06:14 drojf         :/
06:14 drojf         oh
06:14 huginn        drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Schoenefeld, Germany is -1.0°C (6:50 AM CET on November 25, 2016). Conditions: Light Freezing Fog. Humidity: 100%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Pressure: 30.27 in 1025 hPa (Steady).
06:14 drojf         @wunder sxf
06:09 wahanui       somebody said MARC21 was at http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/ecbdlist.html , http://www.loc.gov/marc/authority/ecadlist.html
06:09 jois          what is  MARC21?
06:09 drojf         lol dcook
06:09 dcook         hey jois
06:09 dcook         The support was good though!
06:09 jois          hi
06:09 dcook         I like how I solved that problem on my own in the end lol
06:08 drojf         yay
06:08 dcook         Ok, cool. I'll add a change to that
06:08 dcook         Yiiiiisss
06:08 drojf         yes i think that is the thing
06:08 dcook         I think that's the one
06:08 dcook         drojf: scripts/koha-create-dirs ?
06:08 drojf         oh nice
06:08 dcook         We should put that repo up somewhere
06:07 * drojf       sighs
06:07 dcook         Which one person has actually put a repository up for..
06:07 drojf         that's always the worst part
06:07 dcook         The worst part is the deps
06:07 dcook         Not that hard really
06:07 dcook         : p
06:07 drojf         lol
06:07 drojf         ok then i want a koha rpm package i return
06:06 * dcook       is very familiar with building RPMs now but needs to get to Deb packages..
06:06 dcook         drojf: What would I need to give to you for that?
06:06 dcook         Yeah, if I could get the package to create a subdirectory owned by the koha user that would be great
06:05 dcook         Oh... I see what I must've been thinking
06:05 dcook         Huh..
06:05 dcook         755 root:root
06:05 dcook         We have /var/spool/koha/<instance>
06:05 dcook         Ok let's see..
06:02 * dcook       waits
06:02 dcook         Vbox starts fast enough I guess..
06:02 dcook         Hmm I don't have a Debian system handy..
06:01 dcook         Let me do a little test..
06:01 dcook         Or maybe I'm thinking of something else
06:01 dcook         I can't always cd to a directory, but I can get to a subdirectory
06:01 dcook         I've found that to be the case on my phone
06:01 dcook         I think you're right
06:01 drojf         but its 7 am and i did not have coffee :D
06:00 drojf         i don't see why not
06:00 dcook         Yeah, that's all I need
06:00 dcook         Yeah? Sweet
06:00 drojf         is
06:00 drojf         you could if the sub directory us yours
06:00 dcook         At least, with whatever the current permissions are
05:59 dcook         But I couldn't reach it if spool/<kohainstance> is owned by root
05:59 dcook         Ideally I'd have a subdirectory
05:58 drojf         do you need the whole directory? if you want to have tmp xml data there, that coul dhave its own sub dir maybe
05:57 dcook         Before you took over the packaging I think
05:57 dcook         I think it was a while ago.
05:57 dcook         I don't know Debian packaging well enough to craft a patch
05:57 drojf         oh, don't remember reading that
05:57 * dcook       emailed the listserv about this a while ago but got no response, but it doesn't quite seem like a Bugzilla issue
05:57 dcook         But keep the permissions for the files the same
05:56 dcook         I was wondering if we could have the koha user own the directory
05:56 dcook         Right, but the directory itself is owned by root, which prevents a person from changing directories into it
05:56 drojf         i think
05:56 drojf         like, the config part of the backups is owned by root and the sql by koha user
05:56 dcook         Which have root as an owner and a group of the koha-instance user?
05:56 dcook         At a glance, I think the only thing in there are backups?
05:55 drojf         i think some parts are, others would break
05:55 dcook         ie I want to save XML records there temporarily :p
05:55 dcook         That need to spool data for later processing
05:55 dcook         As it would be useful for other bits of Koha
05:55 dcook         I'm wondering if /var/spool/koha/<instance> has to be owned by root...
05:55 drojf         you will find out :P
05:54 dcook         Oh... and I'll probably want to talk to you at some point
05:54 dcook         I have no idea what will be accepted anymore
05:54 dcook         It's been too long since I've contributed a patch via Bugzilla
05:53 drojf         heh
05:53 dcook         Sooo many unit tests..
05:53 dcook         I'm working away on the OAI stuff..
05:53 dcook         heya drojf :)
05:50 drojf         hi dcook
05:44 * dcook       waves
05:44 drojf         morning #koha
02:46 sunny         i am  so exciting to see "welcome to the koha web installer"  haha
02:27 sunny         thank you . i have a visiter ..wait for second
02:23 wizzyrea      ^ very small explanation
02:22 wizzyrea      https://blog.kowalczyk.info/article/10c/Local-DNS-modifications-on-Windows-etchosts-equi.html
02:22 wizzyrea      or you could configure the local hosts file to map the names without DNS
02:22 wizzyrea      you would have to use ports to set the two virtualhosts apart
02:20 sunny         my koha server is virtual host. if i want visit with ip addr in lan,what should i do?
02:16 wizzyrea      (for linux you could define it in /etc/hosts)
02:16 wizzyrea      if they have DNS for it to point to your machine, it should work
02:16 sunny         if someone in same lan, visit the addr too?
02:15 wizzyrea      yes!
02:14 sunny         now i should do web install
02:14 wizzyrea      you are welcome
02:14 sunny         thank you so much
02:14 wizzyrea      YAY
02:14 wahanui       For now...
02:14 sunny         it works
02:13 wizzyrea      the other option is to change the top from to for that intranet virtualhost
02:13 wizzyrea      that will work if you have dns set up for that
02:12 sunny         then i should visit "library-intra.mydnsname.org"?
02:11 wizzyrea      right, that will be the one you are seeing when you go to
02:11 sunny         "labeled OPAC" means servername:library-intra.mydnsname.org?
02:09 wizzyrea      :D
02:09 sunny         yes
02:09 wizzyrea      so it would be /etc/apache2/sites-available/library.conf
02:08 sunny         library is my instance name
02:08 wizzyrea      "NAME" is your instance name
02:08 wizzyrea      you did something like koha-create --create-db NAME
02:08 wizzyrea      well <instancename> is what you called your instance when you created your instance
02:06 sunny         ok .i just open <instancename>.conf
02:05 wizzyrea      and let us look at what you've got in there :)
02:05 wizzyrea      or, you can paste what is in that config file to http://paste.koha-community.org
02:04 wizzyrea      so then you'd access it with (just as an example)
02:03 wizzyrea      what you probably want to do is to put the intranet site on a different port
02:03 sunny         hold on
02:03 sunny         let me see
02:03 wizzyrea      the next one is labeled Intranet
02:02 wizzyrea      the first one is labeled OPAC
02:02 wizzyrea      you will see two virtualhost entries
02:02 wizzyrea      ok, in your apache configuration for the site /etc/apache2/sites-available/<instancename>.conf
02:01 sunny
02:01 wizzyrea      how are you accessing (with what address) what you are seeing now?
02:01 sunny         or on lan
02:01 sunny         i want it run on local
02:00 wizzyrea      you need to go to the staff interface one
02:00 wizzyrea      ok, Koha has two virtualhosts, you are going to the public (opac) one
02:00 sunny         thank you so much . i want to install koha on debian following the instruction about apache,mysql ,at the end ,there is a system maintenance
01:56 wizzyrea      (usually)
01:56 wizzyrea      hi, we can help :)
01:55 sunny         hello everyone! i come from china,my english is not good . i'm looking for help.
00:20 dcook         Mojolicious is still optional in Koha, yeah?