Time Nick Message 23:50 bag yeah that’s pretty awesome dcook 23:47 Francesca see you guys soon! 23:42 wizzyrea that ending tho 23:41 dcook Best. Thing. Ever. 23:41 wizzyrea hahahahahahaha 23:40 dcook eythian: ^ 23:40 * dcook is just going to leave this here: https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XR23o6rnjjI/Vwp5F_dkytI/AAAAAAAEE-I/SvaggctTIKg_fCcZkFtopH3TzJoYj80MQ/w426-h237/7b6949a30870c9f9.gif 22:56 tcohen C4/AuthoritiesMarc.pm and sms_listen.pl have goto's :-D 22:55 rangi sweet 22:53 tcohen will work on 'overdue_notices.pl should have a test mode' bug, will try to refactor it abit 22:53 tcohen i hate it too :-D hehe 22:52 rangi still confusing though 22:52 tcohen you are right 22:52 * tcohen read the logs 22:51 rangi hehe 22:51 tcohen I hate my mother's wifi router 22:49 rangi thats a continue, not a goto 22:49 wahanui well, the next is packaging manager... do we have a volunteer for that? 22:49 rangi the next? 22:48 wizzyrea oh, if you are poking in overdue_notices you are already down the rabbit hole. 22:47 tcohen nah, a goto 22:47 tcohen it is a hidden goto 22:47 rangi you wouldn't think that would have to be explicitly spelt out 22:46 tcohen overdue_notices.pl:591 22:46 rangi that's already against all guidelines ever 22:46 tcohen sure 22:46 rangi we have goto ? 22:45 tcohen could we add https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd02xx/EWD215.PDF to the coding guidelines at some point? 22:38 rangi no problem 22:37 tcohen thanks wizzyrea rangi 22:34 rangi every 'system' does it a bit differently, and you pretty much have to have their software to read the chips 22:34 rangi yep 22:32 * tcohen has no idea of course 22:32 wizzyrea if you can do that then it'll be fine. 22:32 tcohen rangi: the hardware probably lets you choose a cdefault field 22:32 rangi you can have national id number, library number, whatever else .. all on the same chip 22:31 rangi with rfid, you can store multiple 22:31 rangi the thing with barcode, you can store one thing 22:30 wizzyrea I can't think of a way to keep the ID number, but expire the card that carries it 22:30 rangi yeah 22:30 wizzyrea but you can't change a "national ID number" so you'd probably need a different one. 22:29 wizzyrea it's the standard way, really. 22:29 rangi lots of libraries already do that 22:29 rangi you change the number in Koha 22:29 rangi its just the same as if someone loses a card with a preprinted barcode, and you ahve to give them another 22:29 rangi you could do it that way 22:29 tcohen thus the need for a workflow for assgning new id's to patrons+ 22:28 tcohen so they wanted to rely on their unique ID 22:28 tcohen yeah, they were concerned about people re-using lost cards to cheat 22:28 rangi otherwise you're stuck forever :) 22:27 rangi ahhh naw, you want to store your own id on it, lose a card, just put the id on another one 22:26 tcohen so that's it, thanks 22:25 tcohen i thought people relied on the ID of the RFID card 22:25 tcohen so that's all I need to know 22:25 tcohen ah 22:25 rangi if you put more info on the card .. then you are asking for trouble 22:24 rangi the card just has cardnumber 22:24 rangi that doesnt change 22:24 rangi that understand how it is stored and stuff on the card 22:24 tcohen problem is patron DB maintenance 22:24 tcohen yes, I know how the checkout would work 22:24 rangi theres usually a bit of software that comes with the reader 22:24 rangi the reader does all the work 22:23 rangi then end ;) 22:23 rangi like you would scan a barcode 22:23 rangi scan a card 22:23 tcohen so what's the workflow? 22:23 tcohen and then, patrons loose their cards 22:23 tcohen they should just move it somewhere else I guess... 22:22 tcohen this library uses the patron's national ID right now 22:22 rangi yup 22:22 tcohen right? 22:22 tcohen yeah, but you use what is read, as a cardnumber 22:22 rangi (or as a SIP transaction) 22:22 rangi it has no idea how it got into that web browser 22:22 rangi it sees everythign as input from a webbrowser 22:21 rangi e 22:21 rangi koha doesnt even know/car 22:21 tcohen and store the RFID as carnumber? 22:21 rangi or any other rfid reader 22:21 rangi self check machines 22:21 tcohen i'd like to know how you hook it into KOha 22:21 rangi why? 22:21 rangi we host their Koha, so me? 22:20 tcohen who can I talk to about it? 22:20 rangi horowhenua district council 22:20 tcohen hdc? 22:20 tcohen hi rangi 22:20 rangi te takere 22:19 rangi HDC does 22:18 tcohen is anyone using RFID cards for their patrons? 22:09 cait i think first week of august 22:09 cait it is on the wiki :) 22:04 talljoy lazyweb 22:04 wizzyrea isn't it on the wiki? 22:00 bag heya cait do you know when the next general meeting is 22:00 wahanui general meeting is 8 April 2015 at 19:00 UTC 22:00 talljoy general meeting? 22:00 bag general_meeting? 21:35 tcohen we'll miss you nengard! 21:35 tcohen hi 20:37 mveron hi drojf 20:37 drojf hi mveron 20:35 mveron hi rangi 20:35 rangi hi mveron 20:34 mveron Good evening / daytime #koha 20:20 cait i shoudl totally use it more 20:20 cait but it shows the number i think 20:20 cait maybe because it takes the attachements as base for figuring it out 20:20 cait ah 20:19 oleonard Where splitter lists the bug reports which modify a file... It doesn't seem to link to the bug report, just to the attachment 20:19 cait waht did you mean to say? 20:19 cait i had a long day - i might not be thinking very clearly :) 20:18 oleonard I'm bad at keyboards today 20:18 oleonard Sorry 20:18 oleonard yy 20:18 cait oleonard: hm? 20:17 oleonard Does splitter not link directly to bug reports from anywhere? 20:16 cait good to give it some thought 20:16 cait but it's a lot of translation work this will cause too 20:16 cait you have to get creative sometimes... because you can't change sequence 20:15 oleonard I assumed based on the patch that this system wasn't working well for languages other than English. Is that not the case? 20:15 oleonard cait: I agree that the Admin preferences patch is a step back from the point of view of the settings being incorporated into sentences 20:08 drojf oleonard: not sure, only skimmed through it, but i don't think it fixed authorized values 20:08 cait the itemtype bug first was phrased very general 20:08 cait maybe a confusion 20:05 oleonard drojf: That bug is a duplicate of a bug which is marked as fixed.... But fixed in what way? 20:04 drojf hi rangi 20:03 cait morning rangi 20:03 huginn 04Bug 14063: enhancement, P3, ---, veron, RESOLVED DUPLICATE, Implement language overlay for authorised values 20:03 drojf cait: https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14063#c4 (yay not confused but i think we don't have it) 20:02 oleonard Hi rangi 20:01 rangi morning 19:59 drojf hm maybe i am just confused. which is very likely 19:59 cait only itemtypes i think - at least i haven't seen the other bug 19:58 drojf i thought i tested that for authorized values 19:58 cait but probably needsto be done one by one... lots of work 19:58 cait i'd really like that for authorisedvalues 19:58 cait and also the translation feature that we have for itemtpes now 19:58 cait yeah it would be nice to add that 19:57 oleonard Maybe that's why I wasn't aware of it. 19:57 oleonard I wish that worked for collection codes too 19:56 cait we set it up in 3.22 just yesterday for a library - so still fresh on my mind:) 19:55 cait it will also use th icon from the authorised value 19:55 cait not from other pages, i think, but it works on the advanced search 19:55 cait yep 19:55 oleonard cait: And it will hide the individual item types you grouped together? 19:54 cait and it will search both itemtypes when you click it 19:54 cait and then the advanced search will only show film as a limit 19:54 cait you put both itemtypes in it 19:54 cait youcould create a group 'fillm' 19:54 cait say you have dvd and video 19:53 cait oleonard: group itemtypes for search 19:53 oleonard Nothing in the help file either 19:51 oleonard In other news, I have no idea what "search categories" are supposed to do 19:50 drojf it's the only one that i had to add 20 times to show stuff. does not mean there are no others, but that one bugs me 19:49 oleonard I guess that's a bug! 19:49 oleonard Interesting that ITEMTYPECAT exists with not values but UPLOAD simply doesn't exist. 19:46 nuentoter oh wow nm i just lack reading skills 19:44 nuentoter ok then i thought my google skills were just lacking, second question to edit the list of "search categories" that show up under the item types list, where do i go? 19:43 drojf awesome quest for a community contribution. find them all, add them to the wiki. for the greater good 19:43 drojf but… 19:43 drojf not a single one :P 19:43 drojf but somewhere in 16000 bugs 19:42 oleonard No there isn't nuentoter, not that I know of. 19:42 drojf if by "page" you mean bugzilla, i am sure it's all in there 19:42 nuentoter yeah like oleonard said lol, is there a page that lists them all? 19:41 drojf true. UPLOAD comes to mind as an annoying example 19:41 nuentoter i know you can create new ones from thin air, but i do believe there are many not implemented by default in the available listing 19:41 oleonard That's where the gap is. 19:41 oleonard drojf: True, but there are authorized values which some features require but which are not created by default in Koha 19:40 drojf i doubt it. as you can create whatever authorized value you want 19:40 nuentoter and is that where i would go to edit the "search category" field in the item types? 19:40 nuentoter so after looking and looking i have a couple questions, is there a listing somewhere of all the possible authorized values categories? 19:13 cait oleonard++ 19:11 cait oleonard: figured it out after you had left 19:09 cait pianohacker: so hard to fix? 19:08 cait so it might not have been the selector all along 19:08 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16520 minor, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Failed QA , Per-virtualhost SetEnvs don't work with Plack 19:08 pianohacker bug 16520 19:08 cait oleonard: i tried that - but it only worekd when i changed hide to remove 19:08 pianohacker woops 19:08 oleonard The value doesn't change with translations 19:08 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16218 trivial, P5 - low, ---, veron, Pushed to Stable , printfeercpt.tt (and others) does not include jQuery 19:08 pianohacker I may just bug 16218 a dep of memcached-in-koha-conf 19:08 oleonard cait: I use this to hide publication date: $("option[value='pubdate_asc']").remove(); 19:08 pianohacker hmmmmmmmm 19:06 tcohen and cannot imagine people changing it 19:06 tcohen which defaults to koha_ 19:06 tcohen pianohacker: we let the users set the namespace prefix 18:50 pianohacker *apache variables 18:50 pianohacker tcohen: are the debian memcached namespace and server consistent enough that we could hardcode them with instance variables? 18:48 drojf unless that was the question :P 18:46 drojf i'm not, but interested in the question 18:44 tcohen is anyone using rfid cards for their patrons? 18:44 tcohen drojf: that's really good news 18:43 * tcohen dances happily! 18:42 pianohacker (of course, all of this becomes irrelephant if we put memcached back in koha-conf) 18:42 * drojf expected a happy dance from tcohen :P 18:42 pianohacker hmmm 18:40 tcohen they are just included and make use of variables to solve this 18:40 tcohen but the plack ones can 18:40 tcohen so generated files cannot be patched (for now) 18:39 pianohacker wooooooooooooohah 18:38 tcohen ${instance} 18:38 tcohen pianohacker: and then how we use it in apache-shared-*-plack.conf 18:38 * bag happy dancer 18:37 drojf we deprecated wheezy at the dev meeting and drop support at 16.11. do all complaining and/or happy dances now 18:37 tcohen pianohacker: look at apache-site.conf.in 18:37 pianohacker hi drojf ! 18:37 pianohacker tcohen: could apache variables work for the memcached namespace? 18:37 drojf hi tcohen and pianohacker 18:37 pianohacker hmmmm 18:36 tcohen started using apache variables for the instance names 18:36 tcohen and the plack ones 18:35 tcohen they are reused on all instances 18:35 tcohen the apache-shared-*.conf files are there in a way we can patch them on upgrade 18:34 tcohen you mean like having one of those files per-instance? 18:33 pianohacker same here man 18:33 pianohacker heh 18:33 pianohacker tcohen: how hard would it be to make __MEMCACHED_*__ replaced in apache-shared-*-plack.conf on debian? 18:33 tcohen (if that was the question) 18:33 tcohen pianohacker: i was born like that, no point trying to fix me 18:32 tcohen shoot 18:32 pianohacker tcohen: Iiiiiii have a question for you :) 18:31 pianohacker hi tcohen! 18:31 kidclamp hi tcohen 18:30 tcohen hi 16:54 kidclamp np 16:54 cait thx for sharing the trick kidclamp++ 16:53 kidclamp :-) 16:53 cait it's still really odd 16:53 kidclamp ie-- 16:53 kidclamp ti works sometimes with out, the span seems to guarantee 16:53 cait i will keep that in mind 16:53 kidclamp yeah {selector}.wrap(<span>).hide() 16:52 cait $("option:contains('Erwerbungsdatum')").remove(); works apparently 16:52 cait $("option:contains('Acquisition date')").remove(); 16:52 cait i hate IE. 16:52 cait adding an element and then hide it? 16:52 kidclamp wrap the option in a span then hide cait, that seems to work better 16:51 cait hm hide to remove 16:51 cait oleonard-away: changing remove to hide worked... ... 16:50 cait $("option:contains('Acquisition date')").hide(); doesn't work either :( 16:48 cait oleonard++ thx for taking a look 16:45 cait oleonard-away: translations change, so avoiding going for the text woudl have been nice 16:45 cait oleonard-away: sorry, was dealing with another ticket... 16:44 cait oleonard-away: hm? 16:34 oleonard ...but it's just two <option>s right? So you could run two commands with specific values instead. 16:33 oleonard cait: No I don't know why it doesn't work. 16:27 cait 11 16:27 cait ie 1 16:26 cait 3.22 koha 16:26 cait or the advanced search page 16:26 cait the result list in opac 16:25 oleonard cait: What page? And which version of IE? 16:24 cait i try to avoid using the text - as I need mroe lines for german and english then and any other language that might get added 16:23 cait i am trying tot hide the acquisition date sort for an archive - it doesn't make sense for them 16:23 cait it doesn't seem to like using the attribute as a selector... is my guess... but gr. 16:23 cait oleonard: can you tell why $("option[value*='acqdate']").hide(); wouldn't work in IE but does in firefox? 16:22 cait ie-- 16:03 oleonard Not just good practice, but a precursor to moving JS out of the header and into the footer 16:02 oleonard Oh yeah, now I remember why I went down the rabbit hole of removing "onclick" 15:55 gaetan_B bye 15:41 khall bye! 15:40 drojf #later #koha 15:40 * drojf heads home 15:40 cait as specially stuff that shoudl not sort? :) 15:39 cait a general question: has anyone worked with sorting in zebra? 15:39 cait thx all for attending 15:39 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/development_irc_meeting_13_july_2016.2016-07-13-14.08.log.html 15:39 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/development_irc_meeting_13_july_2016.2016-07-13-14.08.txt 15:39 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/development_irc_meeting_13_july_2016.2016-07-13-14.08.html 15:39 huginn Meeting ended Wed Jul 13 15:39:29 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 15:39 cait #endmeeting 15:39 cait if it doesn't work out, we will set another date close 15:39 cait #agreed next meeting will take place on august 10 at 19 UTC 15:39 cait hm 7 am 15:38 cait trying to see what that is in nz but failing 15:38 cait let's try 15:38 Joubu still late for me, but if it can help to get other devs, it's ok for me (who?) 15:37 Joubu I don't know, I let you decide 15:37 wahanui somebody said 19 utc was fine by me. 15:37 cait 19 utc? 15:37 Joubu wow, not ok :) 15:37 cait rather late in europe... better in other places 15:36 wahanui somebody said 21 utc was fine and might be better for local time adjustments. 15:36 cait 21 utc ? 15:36 wahanui it has been said that which time is better for my area? 10:00+0000 or 22:00+0000? 15:36 cait which time? 15:36 Joubu k 15:36 cait august 10? 15:36 cait maybe a week after? 15:36 cait the next general meeting is august 3 15:36 reiveune bye 15:36 cait #topic Set time of next meeting 15:35 cait are we ready to se tthe date for the next meeting? 15:34 Joubu and the others on the graph I paste earlier 15:34 cait #info Joubu started move of C4::Members to Koha::Patrons 15:34 cait #info read Joubu's summary emails "what's on in koha-devel"! :) 15:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16846 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , Move patron related code to Koha::Patron 15:33 Joubu see bug 16846 and related 15:33 cait Joubu++ 15:33 Joubu I have started the move of C4::Members to Koha::Patrons 15:33 Joubu like that devs won't have excuse not to follow/know what is going on 15:32 Joubu to summarise what's happen on bugzilla and koha-devel ML 15:32 cait we have a lto of people ignoring the warning in the release notes or not reading it 15:32 cait I'd like to get some focus on them if possible 15:32 Joubu The last 2 months I have sent a "what's on in koha-devel" email 15:31 cait ah... I had wanted to compile a list about mysql 5.x bugs - but I didn't get to it 15:31 cait Joubu: do you have something for QA? 15:31 cait i think they contain a lot of good info 15:31 cait and a thank you to Joubu for his summaries 15:31 cait first... sorry for the absence - I hope to improve on that 15:30 khall ha! 15:30 cait #topic Updates from the QA team 15:29 morgane bye ! 15:29 cait ok 15:29 cait hehe yes 15:29 Joubu just kidding, you can move on something else 15:29 drojf by deprecating stuff when they are not looking 15:29 Joubu :D 15:29 Joubu How can we motivate other devs to attempt dev meetings? 15:29 cait go for it :) 15:29 cait ah ok 15:29 Joubu I have a question, if we have finished with the this topic 15:29 cait moving on 15:28 cait ok sorry 15:28 cait #action oleonard to start a mailing list thread about the frontend build tool 15:26 oleonard whoops, focus! 15:26 oleonard gro 15:25 khall thanks! 15:25 oleonard Yes 15:25 cait oleonard? :) 15:24 cait #action khall to add react/angular and frontend build to to next agenda ;) 15:24 khall oleonard: would you be willing to start a mailing list thread? 15:24 khall both I think 15:23 cait or maybe ask for ideas on the mailing list? 15:23 cait shudl we put this as a topic on the next agenda? 15:23 khall oleonard: it's like apt-get but for javascript libraries 15:22 cait #info cait would be interested in an online api tutorial - how to set it up, test, validate etc. 15:22 khall I think Gulp is the way to go. Bower is great for js deps. We could manage all our libraries using Bower. jQuery and such 15:22 oleonard I'm not really familiar with Bower 15:21 oleonard We never reached a consensus, although pianohacker volunteered to build custom packages for something like Gulp if that would move it forward. 15:20 khall what do we want to use? Gulp and Bower? 15:19 khall oleonard: how's that going? 15:19 oleonard I hate to see any major changes to our JavaScript infrastructure before we get a front-end build tool in place. 15:19 khall let's vote on that since he's not here : ) = 15:18 khall I volunteer Julian ; ) 15:18 cait how to activate, how to test, how to validate... whatever comes to mind 15:18 khall cait: I think that's an excellent idea! 15:18 cait one of the things I didn't achieve at the hackfest... missed out on that 15:18 cait i'd be happy if we could do a little api tutorial sometime 15:17 khall also a good reason to move on from wheezy to jessie 15:17 Joubu :) 15:17 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14974 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Patch doesn't apply , Use the REST API for cities 15:17 Joubu in that case, I am waiting for an example on bug 14974 for month 15:17 khall *but* first we need to get the API enabled by default 15:17 cait #info more information in chat log about this - not easy to info all :) 15:17 khall Joubu: yes, I think that should absolutely be done 15:17 cait #action khall to provide a proof of concept for using React in Koha 15:17 Joubu khall: does it make sense to use React to call the rest api? 15:17 oleonard Yes, coordinating with kivilahtio sounds sensible 15:16 khall cait: sure! 15:16 khall I wrote the item messages feature using Angular, I'll rewrite it using React 15:16 cait :) 15:16 cait can i action that? 15:16 khall oleonard: yes, that's the plan! I'm going to start with something small 15:16 cait would it make sense to ask kivilahtio for his list? 15:16 Joubu what I was going to ask for 15:16 oleonard khall: Are you interested enough in it to put together a proof of concept? 15:15 khall excellent! Just looking for input, I don't want to code myself into a corner ; ) 15:15 drojf i like easier to learn 15:15 Joubu I dont remember the details, but he had a big list of pros/cons 15:15 wahanui okay, khall. 15:15 khall React is also easier to learn 15:15 Joubu kivilahtio presented the diff between these 2 frameworks and his conclusion was the same as yours: React is better 15:14 drojf i'm happy to learn a little of one of them. after you decide what you want to use ;) not qualified to pick one 15:14 khall I think we need to pick just one 15:14 khall I'm sure it's possible with Angular as well, but Angular is much "heavier" 15:13 khall we just tell the widget "show the data for this patron" and it does it's thing 15:13 khall or the checkouts table, or the holds table 15:13 khall Consider the patron info sidebar, that could be converted to a React widget that could be used across multiple pages 15:13 khall so it would greatly simplify our code if we used react 15:12 khall b) React is all about create "widgets" which we could re-use from page to page 15:12 khall a) we already have a code base, Angular is more happy being the app, it doesn't share well ; ) 15:12 cait #info Topic: thoughts on Angular vs React 15:11 khall I think React is a better fit because: 15:11 cait Joubu: if someone wants to fight the decision... they always can next meeting :) 15:11 khall cait: exactly 15:11 cait but maybe... pick only one please 15:11 Joubu (The rewrite work is on https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/showdependencygraph.cgi?id=15449, but I have already paste this number thousands of times) 15:11 drojf Joubu: none against it :P 15:11 cait React seems to be somewhat... hotter? right now - but I don't have any technical knowledge/views :( 15:11 khall I think the nature of Koha would make React better suited 15:10 khall I'm interested in thoughts on Angular vs React 15:10 Joubu 4 votes for deprecating wheezy... 15:10 cait does someone have something he/she wants to add? 15:10 cait ther is nothing listed under this topic 15:10 bag hola 15:10 cait #topic General development discussion (trends, ideas, ...) 15:09 cait and hi bag ;) 15:09 cait moving on 15:09 drojf so long, wheezy 15:09 cait ok? 15:09 bag woot 15:09 cait #action bag to add a note to the next release notes 15:09 cait #agreed Wheezy is officially deprecated 15:09 huginn yes (4): Joubu, cait, drojf, khall 15:09 huginn Voted on "Should we officially deprecate Debian Wheezy?" Results are 15:09 cait #endvote 15:08 cait done? 15:08 Joubu #vote yes 15:08 drojf lol eythian 15:08 cait #vote yes 15:08 drojf #vote yes 15:08 khall #vote yes 15:08 eythian if you vote no, you are offering to support it :) 15:08 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 15:08 huginn Begin voting on: Should we officially deprecate Debian Wheezy? Valid vote options are , yes, no, abstain, . 15:08 cait #startvote Should we officially deprecate Debian Wheezy? (yes,no,abstain) 15:07 khall cait: yes, I think we should vote 15:07 khall drojf: I don't think there is one ; ) 15:07 cait shoudl we vote? 15:07 cait ? 15:07 drojf what is a valid reason not to uprade your server operating system? 15:07 cait probably they shoudl be using a supported current OS 15:06 drojf oleonard: i don't know and i don't know how we could find out about it 15:06 cait #info Deprecating Wheezy because of problems with ES, Plack, Apache 2.4 - will mean: note in release notes, not fixing bugs specific to wheezy, not backporting from packaging side 15:06 drojf it will probably work for a while, apart from some things. don#t know. i would not mind backporting security stuff for a little longer. but not all of catmandu and things like that 15:06 oleonard Does it have the potential to exclude Koha users because they are unable to upgrade for some reason? 15:05 cait ok 15:05 drojf because those might get a lot 15:05 drojf not backporting whatever things. from the packaging side 15:05 cait not fixing bugs related only to wheezy? 15:04 khall drojf: indeed! 15:04 cait what woudl be the consequences? a note in the release notes 15:04 cait shall we vote on that? 15:04 drojf and apache 2.4 in general 15:04 cait good list :) 15:04 cait ok 15:04 khall cait: well, plack and elastic 15:04 cait so that we coudl say... due to this that and so... it will be deprecated 15:04 drojf list of what? 15:04 cait do we have a kind of list? 15:04 drojf 16.11 may be the "ES in koha" release (don't know the status), so i think it would make sense to have the cut then 15:04 khall np ; ) 15:03 cait sorry, got confused 15:03 khall too many important things don't work in wheezy 15:03 cait aah 15:03 khall that is, drop official wheezy support in 16.11 15:03 cait 16.11? 15:02 khall I think we should just go ahead and deprecate it, and drop support for 16.11 15:01 drojf *question 15:01 drojf related quetion: are there a lot of people still using wheezy, and for what reasons? 15:01 drojf so we do not fully support wheezy any longer. do we want to "support" it at all, or just label it deprecated? like, announce it now, drop support for 16.11 15:01 drojf AFAIK, we add more things that won't work in wheezy. like plack out of the box (and all other apache 2.4 related things that may come) and elasticsearch (unless i'm mistaken here) 15:01 drojf i think we agreed that if we want to abandon wheezy at some point, we would have to announce we deprecate support for it before. 15:01 cait drojf: ? 15:00 cait #topic Deprecate support for Debian Wheezy? 15:00 cait ok 15:00 cait #action Jobuu to provide a list of bug numbers waiting for QA in that area atm 15:00 cait #action khall volunteers to focus on rewrite patches for QA 14:59 khall shall we move on? 14:59 khall we're wandering off topic 14:59 khall Joubu wil get me the bug numbers and I'll take a look! 14:59 cait I was focusing on the 'bugs' the last 2 days, trying to get back into things 14:59 cait I think some are in the signed off state already 14:58 cait sounds good 14:58 khall if you can find someone for sign-offs, we could add focus and speed to your project 14:58 khall I'd volunteer for the qa part 14:58 khall Joubu: I think we need a special ops team. You to write, someone to sign off, and someone to qa 14:57 khall I think the writing is on the wall for 15759. I thought it was clever and interesting at least. 14:57 Joubu If these patches could be pushed in an easier/quicker way, I could continue the same job for other modules 14:56 khall ok, put that in the actions ; ) 14:56 Joubu instead of mixing objects and hashrefs 14:56 Joubu and it will help to manipulate objects and only objects 14:56 cait true :) 14:55 Joubu moving code from C4 to Koha 14:55 Joubu I have plenty of patches waiting for signoff and QA 14:55 Joubu I do! 14:53 khall but, I must ask, who is going to volunteer to do that? 14:53 khall the argument against it is "we should be rewriting all that code instead" 14:53 cait for the reasons alex and other stated 14:53 khall I think it would give us a *huge* leap on improving our code 14:52 * Joubu whispers yes 14:52 cait i think i lean more onto not doing it 14:51 khall does everyone here know about bug 15759? 14:50 Joubu :) 14:50 khall I'm be willing to reopen it 14:50 Joubu so I don't really know if it's stilll valid 14:50 khall I'd still be open to discussion if anyone is interested 14:49 * oleonard_ gets a stiff neck from watching all the discussions go over his head 14:49 Joubu khall closed the bug 14:49 cait do we need more discussion or are we ready for a vote? 14:48 cait so for the next topic there has been some discussion and also on the mailing list 14:47 cait so a vote won't be necessary then 14:47 cait i hope the opinions will be one onse side or the other 14:47 cait thx 14:47 vfernandes sorry! 14:47 drojf Joubu: you wanted to abstain :P 14:47 Joubu but I will ask on the ML 14:47 Joubu I think authors (me included) would prefer not to rebase them for 1 year :) 14:47 cait ah 14:46 Joubu well, we have 2 big patches waiting for QA, so it's not so urgent but... 14:46 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15759 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, RESOLVED WONTFIX, Allow Koha::Object derived objects to be used as hashrefs 14:46 cait #info Topic: Allow Koha::Objects to be used as hashrefs ( Bug 15759 ) 14:46 drojf vfernandes: we are in a meeting 14:46 oleonard_ vfernandes: we are in a meeting right now 14:46 cait moving on 14:46 vfernandes there is any easy way or any report to verify which records have repeated authorities? 14:46 cait #action ... and action item is in effect again 14:46 drojf ok 14:46 cait if there is no conclusion, we will have a vote next meeting 14:46 khall agreed 14:46 cait so i think mailing list would be ok 14:46 cait i think it's not super urgent - but shoudl be resolved 14:46 cait so mailing list? or vote this, that, ml? heh 14:45 marcelr more info 14:45 Joubu I will abstain :D 14:45 drojf marcelr: do you expect new input on the topic? or just postpone it to "not now"? 14:45 cait marcelr: 2 seconds earlier... 14:45 vfernandes hi #koha 14:45 marcelr i vote for mailing list 14:45 cait #action ... delete last action 14:44 cait so we do vote 14:44 cait ok 14:44 drojf so if we have 2 people agreeing on something, i am all for that 14:44 Joubu we have at least patron and record (biblio+auth) and we could add reports, etc. 14:44 drojf +1 for consistency is my only opinion 14:44 khall so I'm now in favor of Joubu's choice if that matters ; ) 14:44 khall indeed 14:43 oleonard_ It's hard to plan for what we think we /might/ do in the future. 14:43 khall Joubu: ok, I'll through my hat in your ring ; ) 14:43 khall drojf: I think that's the case. I think Joubu is championing Koha::Export::Patron::CSV 14:43 Joubu that was the idea 14:43 khall now if we built a system where we could import and export arbitrary objects ( patrons, libraries, etc ) then Koha::Export::Patron::CSV would make a lot more sense 14:42 drojf so we don't have a lot of opinions, but rather none in particular? 14:42 Joubu I have plenty of other questions for devs, so I will shoot all of them in an email to koha-devel 14:42 cait #action Joubu to ask on the mailing list about which namespace scheme should be used for the 'export things' 14:42 khall but again, I don't think the choice is that important, the consistency is 14:41 khall I think drojf brings up a good thought though, I think Koha::Patron::Export::CSV is more "CPAN-like" 14:41 Joubu drojf: thanks, I will have a look at their code then 14:41 cait ah they have exporter 14:40 * nengard is confused about what we're voting on 14:40 * drojf contributes random information 14:40 cait i'd say,... ask on the mailing list and count that out after a week or so 14:40 drojf not that it matters in any way, but catmandu has Catmandu::Exporter::CSV 14:40 cait :) 14:40 khall cait: you'd like florida then ; ) 14:40 marcelr is the focus export first or patron first ? 14:40 oleonard_ Yeah, not enough opinionated voters here today I think 14:40 khall I would probably abstain as well 14:40 cait but... pink is pretty! 14:39 marcelr it depends on the focus of the code 14:39 cait i woudl abstain i think - not sure either way 14:39 Joubu as we will get this color for ages, I'd prefer not to have my house pink 14:39 cait not sure we will have a clear vote 14:39 khall Joubu: why not just decide now? It's like we're arguing over what color to paint the house ; ) 14:39 Joubu just thought dev meeting would be appropriate to get feedbacks 14:38 cait and state it clearly 14:38 cait yeah, ask so they pick one 14:38 khall ok, I think we need to just have a majority rule vote. We're bikeshedding ; ) 14:38 Joubu ok I will ask on the mailing list... 14:38 khall that's not bad either 14:37 Joubu or Koha::Export::Patron::CSV 14:37 khall I think the former makes more sense 14:37 khall Koha::Export::CSV::Patron? 14:37 khall vs 14:37 khall Koha::Patron::Export::CSV 14:37 Joubu and we will want to centralise some of these functions under the same namespace 14:37 khall Joubu: yes, I agree with that. We should pick one or the other 14:36 Joubu We will want to export in csv, odt, pdf, etc. 14:36 cait i think we have no inheritance, is that right? as kyle said, there is no exporter object? 14:36 Joubu khall: no, but it's bad if they both exist :) 14:36 cait hm 14:35 Joubu anyone else? 14:35 khall yep, I don't think either one is really "better" than the other 14:34 Joubu can be Koha::Import|Export::Objects instead 14:34 khall personally, I like how Koha::Object::Export and Koha::Object::Import read, it really revolves around the object, and not the "Exporter" which is a thing that doesn't exist 14:32 cait exporter sounds a little odd to me - so from language.. maybe i'd look under patrons first 14:32 Joubu My opinion is that having Koha::Exporter|Importer::Stuffs will add the ability to have a Koha::Exporter::Importer to group export/import methods, if we have to 14:32 cait i am all for concistency... but I don't have a strong prefrence there 14:31 Joubu of Koha::Patrons::Export|Import and Koha::Records::Export|Import 14:31 marcelr consistency++ 14:31 Joubu we should have either Koha::Exporter::Record(s?) and Koha::Exporter::Patron(s?) 14:30 Joubu that does not make sense to have both 14:30 Joubu and 12598 adds a Koha::Patrons::Import 14:30 Joubu I have added Koha::Exporter::Record in 14722 14:30 Joubu It's just about the name/structure of the import/export new modules we are going to add 14:30 cait again, i need some help here about the context please 14:29 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14722 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , Refactor the catalogue export tool (command-line tools/export.pl does not work anymore. Use misc/export_records.pl instead) 14:29 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12598 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , New misc/import_borrowers.pl command line tool 14:29 cait #info Topic: Koha::Patrons::Import (bug 12598) vs Koha::Exporter::Record (bug 14722) 14:29 cait #topic Bugs in discussion 14:29 cait moving on to next topic 14:29 cait do we have a page about benchmarking/tools? might be good to link if we have - to give some hints 14:28 cait #action khall to add new benchmark rule to the coding guidelines 14:28 khall cait: I will 14:28 cait who is going to add it? 14:28 huginn khall: The operation succeeded. 14:28 khall @later tell oleonard this looks interesting https://nosir.github.io/cleave.js/ 14:28 huginn yes (7): Joubu, cait, oleonard, marcelr, druthb, khall, drojf 14:28 huginn Voted on "new coding guideline: performance and chache related patches should include benchmarks of some sort to prove their effects. Question?" Results are 14:28 cait #agreed new coding guideline: performance and chache related patches should include benchmarks of some sort to prove their effects. 14:28 cait #endvote 14:28 oleonard #vote yes 14:27 drojf #vote yes 14:27 druthb #vote yes 14:27 cait #vote yes 14:27 cait i have to add a question mark somewhere... so it works 14:27 Joubu #vote yes 14:27 marcelr #vote yes 14:27 khall #vote yes 14:27 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 14:27 huginn Begin voting on: new coding guideline: performance and chache related patches should include benchmarks of some sort to prove their effects. Question? Valid vote options are , yes, no, . 14:27 khall ? 14:27 cait #startvote new coding guideline: performance and chache related patches should include benchmarks of some sort to prove their effects. Question? (yes,no) 14:26 marcelr whats in a drama 14:26 khall marcelr: I think that's a slippery slope ; ) 14:26 cait marcelr: would be nice if that was a given heh :) 14:25 khall I think so. Should we do a vote? 14:25 marcelr or: patches should not dramatically impact performance ? 14:25 cait performance patches should improve performance gain? 14:25 cait so shoudl we just add one rule for now? 14:25 cait #action Joubu is going to check if some performance testing can be included in the qa scripts (launch a series of tests and compare diff) 14:25 marcelr lots of success :) 14:24 Joubu yes please do :) 14:24 cait i will log an action for that :) 14:24 cait cool 14:24 khall that would definitely lower the bar. Thanks! 14:24 khall Joubu: that would be very useful! 14:24 Joubu and compare the diff 14:24 Joubu That could launch a series of tests before and after the patches applied 14:23 Joubu I will check if I can add some benchmarks in the qa tools (optional) for QA 14:23 khall It makes sense for performance patches, but I think we've got plenty of hoops to jump through already ; ) 14:22 khall Yes, but it's also another hurdle that developers have to jump. 14:22 marcelr but yes, not to quick 14:22 marcelr wouldn't hurt to have a general rule to ask for benchmarks where we doubt 14:22 khall I think if we are going to be able to ask for benchmarks on non-cache patches, the bar should be set fairly high. 14:21 khall Joubu: I don't really recall to be honest. 14:21 Joubu khall: What's the context? Did you ask for a specific patchset? 14:20 cait hm nothing for speed, benchmark or performance in there... 14:20 cait checking the coding guidelines one sec 14:19 cait i think we once agreed that if we have doubts about a patch - like if we are afraid it will slow down things significantly, that qa can ask for benchmarks 14:17 Joubu we could provide a bunch of lines testing the cache speed 14:17 marcelr some other patches could use benchmarks too ? 14:17 khall agreed 14:17 cait I think it's also likely to speed thing up if people see there is somethign to gain 14:17 cait hm I must say it sounds logical to me for this kind of patches 14:17 Joubu yep 14:16 khall Joubu: it sounds like your in favor of it then? 14:16 Joubu say* 14:16 Joubu khall: I'd it's like unit tests for method/subroutine changes, if you think your patch adds speed improvements, you must prove it :) 14:15 marcelr #info Marcel 14:15 khall Joubu does, so we should probably just put it in the guidelines 14:14 khall yes. The idea being that if a patch is only about speed improvements, should the author be required to post data proving there is a speed increase 14:14 Joubu I think I provide benchmarks for these kind of changes 14:14 cait khall: can you explain a bit about the context please? 14:14 wahanui the context is everything? 14:14 Joubu khall: what's the context? 14:14 Joubu It seems that khall did 14:13 cait #info Should cache-only bugs require benchmarks to prove confirm speed improvements? 14:13 cait Someone has put up a question for discussion: 14:13 cait #topic Review of coding guidelines 14:12 cait moving on to the next one 14:12 drojf heh 14:12 cait ok 14:12 cait are you a pirate now? 14:12 drojf not a useful backup today, only here with one eye .) 14:12 cait any announcements? 14:11 cait backup - as I am at work :) 14:11 huginn Current chairs: cait drojf 14:11 cait #chair drojf 14:11 cait #topic announcements 14:10 cait moving onto next topic in a moment 14:10 oleonard #info Owen Leonard, Athens County Public Libraries 14:10 druthb #info Ruth Bavousett, nobody important. 14:09 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, koha.abunchofthings.net 14:09 khall #info Kyle M Hall, ByWater Solutions 14:09 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Development_IRC_meeting_13_July_2016 14:09 cait today's agenda is at 14:08 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 14:08 Joubu #info Jonathan Druart 14:08 cait please introduce yourself following wahanui's example 14:08 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 14:08 cait #topic Introductions 14:08 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'development_irc_meeting_13_july_2016' 14:08 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 14:08 huginn Meeting started Wed Jul 13 14:08:13 2016 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:08 cait #startmeeting Development IRC meeting 13 July 2016 14:07 cait closing my door and pulling up the agenda 14:06 cait give me a second 14:06 cait i am here 14:06 cait sorry 14:06 cait aaaah 14:06 khall cait: dev meeting? 14:06 Joubu :) 14:05 khall me too 14:05 oleonard I thought so 14:05 Joubu Was not supposed to be a meeting now? 14:04 Joubu hi #koha 13:25 nengard I talk about that all the time 13:25 nengard I love the bikes 13:25 nengard :) 13:25 oleonard Books, magazines, DVDs, audio CDs, tablets, laptops, bicycles, pocket digital projectors, infrared thermometers 13:24 test__ oleonard: What kinda things do you guys have in your library? 13:06 nengard morning 12:51 oleonard Yes test__ , people are here. Do you have a Koha question? 12:37 test__ Hi, anyone here? 12:30 marcelr hello LibraryClaire 12:30 LibraryClaire hi marcelr 12:18 marcelr hi #koha 11:01 LibraryClaire :D 11:01 wahanui i heard lunch was a good idea :) 11:01 LibraryClaire lunch... 10:59 LibraryClaire heh 10:57 eythian lack of empathy, casual cruelty, self-focused, ... sounds like an appropriate post for a cat then. 10:55 LibraryClaire currently the country's most popular politician 10:54 LibraryClaire that's Larry :) 10:53 eythian https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CnPUMEZXgAErRbS.jpg:large <-- LibraryClaire 09:37 LibraryClaire yeah 09:34 wahanui the best is probably the CSS-only one. 09:34 drojf the best 09:34 LibraryClaire no meeting 09:31 eythian maybe I should build a lightning detector, I have spare computer things that need projects. 09:30 eythian or the proxy here is being awful 09:30 eythian https://www.lightningmaps.org/blitzortung/europe/index.php?lang=nl <-- unfortunately the realtime stuff seems to currently be broken 09:29 wahanui meeting is in two days, i thought was tomorrow. plenty of time then 09:29 LibraryClaire meeting... 09:29 * LibraryClaire pats wahanui 09:29 wahanui well, the best is probably the CSS-only one. 09:29 LibraryClaire the best 09:29 drojf good timing 09:28 LibraryClaire it rained yesterday for 25minutes of my 30 minute run 09:28 eythian drojf: they manage their water better here, part of being below sea level 09:27 eythian saw the flashes out the window and everyone was all " .. was that lightning?", and then 20 seconds later the thunder arrived. 09:27 drojf i have the most rain ever now 09:27 eythian we had a brief but visible thunderstorm yesterday 09:26 huginn eythian: The current temperature in Schiphol, Badhoevedorp, Netherlands is 16.2°C (11:17 AM CEST on July 13, 2016). Conditions: Drizzle. Humidity: 84%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady). 09:26 eythian @wunder ams 09:16 huginn LibraryClaire: The current temperature in London City, United Kingdom is 16.0°C (9:50 AM BST on July 13, 2016). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 68%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady). 09:16 LibraryClaire @wunder LCY 09:16 drojf i don't see thunderstorms, just a sky that is almoszt completely black 09:16 huginn drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 17.0°C (10:50 AM CEST on July 13, 2016). Conditions: Light Thunderstorms and Rain. Humidity: 77%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Rising). 09:16 drojf @wunder berlin, germany 09:16 LibraryClaire It was badly made by me 09:15 drojf i would like such a coffee 09:14 cait heh 09:14 * LibraryClaire waves enthusiastically post-coffee 09:12 cait hi LibraryClaire :) 09:02 LibraryClaire and cait, and petter :) 09:02 LibraryClaire hi drojf 09:01 petter hi drojf 09:00 cait morning drojf 08:59 drojf hi cait, petter and LibraryClaire 08:58 cait yeah true, but there is a limit heh 08:58 petter better busy than not 08:58 cait good and bad :) 08:58 drojf lol 08:58 wahanui super busy is the new normal 08:58 cait super busy 08:58 petter how are things going with you? 08:56 cait true 08:56 petter (but also more responsiblity when things break) 08:56 petter yes, I'm looking forward for more control 08:56 cait but cool that you can get started with Koha now 08:55 petter indeed 08:55 cait i was wondering because I thought it was meant to be a rather long project 08:55 petter 2019 i think? it keeps getting postponed 08:55 cait ok :) 08:55 petter still some years with construction left 08:55 cait ok 08:55 cait aah 08:55 petter nope 08:55 cait is the new building then done too? 08:55 petter but I guess not everything will be perfect at first 08:55 petter me too:) 08:55 cait hope everything goes well :) 08:55 petter yeah, exciting! 08:54 cait i spotted something in Jo's itinerary :) 08:54 petter we're going live in end of september 08:54 petter I'm fine 08:54 petter hi cait! 08:54 cait how are you doing? OPL going live soon? 08:54 cait hi petter :) 08:53 petter happy hunting 08:53 petter morning! 08:36 * LibraryClaire goes hunting for coffee 08:29 LibraryClaire morning #koha 07:39 wahanui privet, gaetan_B 07:39 gaetan_B hello 07:32 fridolin hie 07:17 cait remember: today is a developer meeting! :) 07:17 cait hi #koha 07:02 morgane hi 07:00 alex_a bonjour 06:48 reiveune hello 06:13 dcook heya drojf :) 06:13 drojf hi dcook 06:09 * dcook also waves 06:09 * dcook wavs 05:23 drojf morning #koha