Time Nick Message 01:08 dpk1 Hello. I could use some help. Was upgrading Koha 3.22.06 to 3.22.07 using debian packages on debian and all looked fine, but when trying to login to the admin interface, I am thrown at the installer. The DB update script appears to have run but logfile (intranet-error.log) says the database needs updating. Rerunning updatedatabase.pl from commandline produces no indication of errors or further updates. Any ideas? 01:11 rangi does the last db update, update the version number? 01:12 dpk1 root@library:/var/lib/mysql.dumps# /usr/share/koha/intranet/cgi-bin/installer/data/mysql/updatedatabase.pl 01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to 3.22.06.001 done (Bug 16217 - Notice' names may have diverged) 01:12 dpk1 At least one authorised value has an icon defined (imageurl) 01:12 dpk1 The system preference AuthorisedValueImages or StaffAuthorisedValueImages could be turned off if you are not aware of this feature 01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to 3.22.06.002 done (Bug 16041 - StaffAuthorisedValueImages & AuthorisedValueImages preferences - impact on search performance) 01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to 3.22.06.003 done (Bug 16170 - Add FK for biblionumber in items) 01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to 3.22.06.004 done (Bug 16402: Fix DB structure to work on MySQL 5.7) 01:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16217 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , Notice' names may have diverged 01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to 3.22.06.005 done (Bug 15086 - Creators layout and template sql has warnings) 01:12 dpk1 Upgrade to 3.22.07.000 done (Koha 3.22.7) 01:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16041 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , StaffAuthorisedValueImages & AuthorisedValueImages preferences - impact on search performance 01:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16170 normal, P5 - low, ---, m.de.rooy, Pushed to Stable , Pseudo foreign key in Items 01:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16402 critical, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Stable , DB structure cannot be loaded in MySQL 5.7 01:12 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15086 minor, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Pushed to Stable , Creators layout and template sql has warnings 01:13 rangi looks good, are you running with plack or anything like that? 01:13 dpk1 No. 01:13 rangi hmm, the way koha knows it should do an update is when the version number in the syspref is lower than the one in Koha.pm 01:14 dpk1 Restarted mysqld just to make sure it had not cached something erroneously. 01:14 rangi hmm, the way koha knows it should do an update is when the version number in the syspref is lower than the one in Koha.pm 01:14 wahanui i already had it that way, rangi. 01:14 rangi ah ha 01:14 rangi bug 01:14 rangi if ( CheckVersion($DBversion) ) { 01:14 rangi print "Upgrade to $DBversion done (Koha 3.22.7)\n"; 01:14 rangi SetVersion($DBversion); 01:14 rangi } 01:15 rangi ah no, i misread that is right 01:15 rangi you could check the value in the syspref to make sure it is the same as in Koha.pm 01:16 wizzyrea I did a 3.22.05 -> 3.22.07 earlier with no trouble 01:16 dpk1 Which Koha.pm, I see one in koha/lib, and koha/lib/C4 01:16 dpk1 This is the error message: 01:16 dpk1 [Wed Jun 08 02:06:57 2016] [error] [client 71.212.29.4] [Wed Jun 8 02:06:57 2016] 404.pl: Database update needed, redirecting to Installer. Database is 3.2206000 and Koha is 3.2207000 at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Auth.pm line 713., referer: http://catalogue-admin.efdss.org/cgi-bin/koha/installer/install.pl?step=1&op=updatestructure 01:17 wizzyrea definitely looks like you have a version mismatch somehow 01:18 rangi memcache? 01:18 wahanui memcache is easy 01:18 dpk1 Yup. We got memcache. 01:19 rangi try restarting it 01:19 dpk1 Ack. 01:20 dpk1 Score! 01:21 dpk1 Me thinks we could detect this is running and either initiate the restart in the upgrade script or at least warn… 01:23 rangi yep 01:34 dpk1 Thanks rangi. 01:34 dpk1 rangi++ 01:35 rangi no worries 02:06 irma welcome back rangi :-) Another great Koha conference !! 02:06 irma Are you feeling ok? Or still in transit? 02:06 irma I mean, body back home but not really home yet ... 02:06 rangi still pretty jetlagged 02:07 tcohen wb rangi! 02:09 mtompset Greetings, irma rangi tcohen. :) 02:10 mtompset And BobB :) 02:10 tcohen hi mtompset 02:12 BobB hi mtompset 02:13 mtompset tcohen: I've got the start of an OpacHiddenItems filter on bug 16335... just have to plan out the integration and testing. :) 02:13 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16335 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, ASSIGNED , Refactor OpacHiddenItems 03:00 mtompset Well, I'm going to finish my netflix video and get to bed. Have a great day (24 hour period), #koha 04:47 drojf morning #koha 05:09 drojf wizzyrea++ 06:22 fridolin hie 06:29 LibraryClaire Morning #koha 06:36 drojf guten morgen LibraryClaire 06:36 LibraryClaire Guten morgen drojf 06:43 * cait waves and runs out 06:51 reiveune hello 06:52 LibraryClaire Hi reiveune 06:53 reiveune salut LibraryClaire 07:10 alex_a bonjour 07:10 wahanui salut, alex_a 08:05 eythian I could still be asleep right now 08:06 liw I would be, were it not for an uncaring world and thunderstorm 08:07 eythian it's warm and humid here, the forecast thunderstorms almost never appear. 08:07 eythian actually, not that warm. It just felt it biking in I guess. 08:07 eythian @wunder ams 08:07 huginn` eythian: The current temperature in Schiphol, Badhoevedorp, Netherlands is 17.2°C (9:57 AM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 75%. Dew Point: 13.0°C. Pressure: 30.18 in 1022 hPa (Steady). 08:08 liw @wunder helsinki 08:08 huginn` liw: The current temperature in Helsinki, Finland is 13.0°C (10:50 AM EEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Steady). 08:22 drojf @wunder berlin, germany 08:22 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 22.0°C (9:50 AM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 46%. Dew Point: 10.0°C. Pressure: 30.04 in 1017 hPa (Steady). 08:22 drojf oh, irc meeting 08:26 barbara_ Good morning from the shinny limassol - Cyprus :) 08:39 * magnuse waves from oslo 08:50 magnuse libraries that are open without any staff, is that a thing outside scandinavia too? 08:51 eythian I'm not aware of it, but it wouldn't be impossible in small towns I expect. 09:04 magnuse eythian: hehe, it's a big thing here 09:05 magnuse you have to sign in with your library card and pin code, but then you typically get access to the library from 7 am to 11 pm, even if the staff is only there from 8 am to 4 pm 09:05 drojf hi again 09:05 magnuse moin drojf 09:05 drojf hei magnuse 09:10 * magnuse is promoting himself at a library conf mostly about electronic journals and open access 09:11 magnuse the conf is in the building of the CS department of the university of oslo 09:11 magnuse rooms here have names like shell, sed and perl :-) 09:12 drojf cool :D 09:12 magnuse the buliding is named after the guy who invented object oriented programming 09:17 drojf magnuse: are you speaking there? 09:20 magnuse nope, i just have a stand as part of the exhibition 09:23 drojf ah ok 09:41 mveron Hi #koha 09:57 mveron @wunder Allschwil 09:57 huginn` mveron: The current temperature in Grenchen, Switzerland is 17.0°C (11:50 AM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.15 in 1021 hPa (Steady). 10:09 * cait waves 10:10 * mveron waves 10:10 cait do we have a meeting? 10:10 thd` One is scheduled. 10:11 cait i just saw the email 10:11 cait if enough people are here we can have one 10:11 cait but i have to grab the delivered lunch first to keep it save :) 10:11 cait or someone else can chair of course 10:12 davidnind hopefully there are enough of us 10:13 thd` People who have the delivered lunch should be awake enough to chair ;) 10:14 cait ok back 10:14 cait but... it's getting cold! :) 10:14 cait #startmeeting General IRC Meeting, 8 June 2016 10:14 huginn` Meeting started Wed Jun 8 10:14:43 2016 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 10:14 huginn` Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. 10:14 huginn` The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting__8_june_2016' 10:14 cait #topic introductions 10:14 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient 10:14 cait please introduce yourself with #info 10:15 cait today's agenda can be found at 10:15 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_8_June_2016 10:15 cait and davidnind++ for sending the reminder 10:15 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City 10:15 davidnind #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand 10:16 schnydszch #info Eugene Espinoza - Manila, Philippines 10:16 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany 10:16 mveron @info Marc Véron, Koha Support Schweiz, Allschwil 10:16 huginn` mveron: Error: The command "info" is available in the Factoids and RSS plugins. Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "info". 10:16 mveron #info Marc Véron, Koha Support Schweiz, Allschwil 10:16 mveron :-) 10:17 cait khall: ? 10:17 khall mornin! 10:18 cait drojf: ping 10:18 cait ok, moving on 10:18 drojf ah 10:18 cait ah or not 10:18 drojf so late, oops 10:19 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, koha.abunchofthings.net, Berlin, Germany 10:19 khall #info Kyle M Hall, Bywater Solutions 10:19 cait ok 10:19 cait so moving on now :) 10:19 cait #topic Announcements 10:19 indradg #info Indranil Das Gupta, L2C2 Technologies, India 10:20 cait not much from me - QA queue is pretty full, hopefully it will normalize soon to a lower number again 10:21 cait any other announcements? 10:22 cait moving on 10:22 cait #topic Update on releases 10:22 cait hm no rm, any rmaints? 10:23 cait ok, 16.05 has been released 10:24 cait packages are available, but i think without the packages for elastic so far 10:24 cait there are quite a few problems when you try to install Koha on Ubuntu 16.04 right now - because of the newer MySQL version (5.6+) - but there are quite a few patches underway to help with that 10:25 cait does someone want to add something? 10:25 cait anyone still awake? 10:26 cait #topic KohaCon16 10:26 davidnind yep, still awake... 10:26 cait kohacon16_organizers++ 10:26 cait auth_library++ ikourmu++ 10:26 drojf good kohacon, would go again 10:26 thd Still not quite asleep but not quite awake here. 10:26 mveron streaming ++ 10:26 cait overall very good organization 10:27 davidnind streaming+++ worked really well 10:27 cait lots of interesting presentations - I can recommend watching the videos! :) 10:28 mveron http://www.livemedia.com/kohacon16 10:28 cait #link http://www.livemedia.com/kohacon16 10:28 drojf #link http://www.livemedia.com/kohacon16 10:28 drojf hmpf 10:28 cait heh 10:28 cait ok 10:28 Diman #info Dimitris Antonakis, Athens, Greece 10:28 cait moving on? 10:29 * cait waves :) 10:29 cait #topic KohaCon17 10:29 cait #info drojf sent a reminder to the list asking for more bids 10:29 cait drojf++ 10:29 drojf two bids, only one valid if we go with the continent switching thing 10:29 cait correct 10:30 drojf we need to set a deadline 10:30 drojf or have we done that already? 10:30 cait #info curently one bid for 2016: Manila, Philippines 10:30 cait no i think we haven't 10:30 drojf i think we used to do that septemberish? 10:30 drojf end of september, or is that too late? 10:31 cait the urrent bid is for september 10:31 cait so in that case it would probably be ok 10:31 schnydszch #info we can make it earlier 10:31 cait it depends if another would want to make it earlier 10:31 cait schnydszch: conf or vote? 10:31 schnydszch the 2017 conf, at least for our bid 10:31 schnydszch for the Philippines bid 10:31 drojf i think we had september last year and that worked fine for a conference in june 10:32 mveron Yes, last time was voting in september: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon16_Proposals 10:32 cait ij 10:32 cait sorry, fingers wrong on the keyboard 10:32 schnydszch June will be fine, still Summer during that time in the Philippines, well, climate change-thing 10:33 drojf thanks mveron, just looked it up 10:33 drojf so end of august maybe for deadline 10:33 cait which date are we discussing? 10:33 cait deadline for bids, deadline for vote? 10:33 schnydszch I'm speaking of our bid, sorry 10:33 drojf " bidding for Kohacon 2016 locations will end one week after the August 2015 general IRC meeting. If you want to host Kohacon 2016, add your proposal to the wiki[1] now and announce it on the general mailing list, so people know about it. No proposals will be accepted after 12 August 2015, 22 UTC." 10:34 drojf from last year 10:34 drojf it was earlier than i thought 10:34 drojf we could just go with the "one week after august meeting" 10:34 drojf so we would have two more meetings before 10:35 drojf does that make sense? 10:35 cait ok 10:35 mveron I think so 10:35 cait but the date won't be set then until the meeting 10:35 cait maybe we should set an august date to make things easier 10:35 cait and with timezones... probably should be clear :) 10:36 drojf i don't think that is a problem really if we set it with the meeting date at the next meeting? 10:36 cait ok 10:36 drojf next meeting we agree on the general irc meeting date for august, plus one week for bids. should work? 10:36 cait i am logging an agreed if noone is against it? 10:36 drojf and its anounced > a month before 10:37 drojf we could vote on it 10:37 cait #agreed the deadline for bids will be one week after the august meeting - exact date to be set next meeting 10:37 thd Did my connection die again? 10:37 cait you didn't leave 10:38 drojf ok then we have to get the voring thing done soon :P 10:38 drojf voring 10:38 drojf arrrr 10:38 drojf voting 10:39 cait the decision? yes 10:39 cait next meeting 10:39 cait could we do a vote about the vote? ;) 10:39 drojf we should vote today for two general options 10:39 drojf so we have it easier next time 10:39 cait i don'rt care so much about the mechanism we choose, but it hink it shoudl be clear before the voting begins 10:39 cait ok 10:39 cait so can you presentt he 2 general options quickly? 10:40 mveron https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Processes_for_KohaCons 10:40 cait #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Processes_for_KohaCons 10:41 drojf what we should decide today is: do we want to have a voring mechanism that distinguishes between "yes", "no" and "maybe", or only "yes" and "no" 10:41 cait hm ok 10:41 cait so we got 2 options: yes/no and yes/no/maybe ? 10:41 drojf and then choose the exact option next time. otherwise we will have 2 hours of discussions next time and nothing in the end. like always 10:41 thd That is a false distinction. 10:42 drojf you did not enter anything else. it is in the wiki and has been for at least two months 10:42 thd The options as described do not necessarily lead to the results presumed. 10:42 drojf i am not an expert in voting schemes, i just want to have some general rule how to set it up. before we start voting 10:42 thd I know, I have been helping a friend avoid eviction. 10:43 thd Where is slef when we need him? 10:43 cait he hasn't been around in quite a while 10:43 drojf and the only contribution from your side is that you say its not enough. and you helped a friend with their eviction. which is a very noble cause, but in no way related to koha and does not get us anywhere 10:43 thd I know :) 10:44 drojf sorry if that sounds rude, but the only person trying to get this anywhere is myself, because i might set upo the vote and THEN have people complaining they wanted a different scheme ;) 10:44 mveron IMO yes/no/maybe would work fine 10:44 thd All the options are underdescribed and thus prevent an informed vote on their face. 10:45 drojf nobody took the time to describe them any further 10:45 drojf its not going to happen until next time 10:45 drojf i brought that up right after the last vote 10:45 drojf and we never did 10:45 * cait nods 10:45 cait it's true 10:45 wahanui I saw it on Digg! 10:45 cait we have been discussing this since the last vote, we need to make a decision 10:46 thd I know I should have taken some time to at least link to a fuller discussion of comparable options on Wikipedia. 10:46 drojf the options i present are the basic options we discussed last time. or the main difference between them 10:46 drojf if you want to have other ones, there is plenty of time after the next vote :) 10:46 drojf no problem in making them better, but so far we have none 10:46 drojf and that is not enough 10:47 thd Reading the choices as described is not enough to understand how they work mathematically and omits how they are counted in every case. 10:47 drojf true, as that is not part of the choices atm 10:48 cait I don#t actually have the time to get into voting mechanisms to be honest 10:48 drojf nobody has 10:48 cait but it hink we need to be clear about what we will use, even if it's to the most ideal one 10:48 drojf that is why nobody has done it for a full year 10:49 thd Options 1, 2, and 4 are all score voting which can be easily gamed but would be good for building consensus over multiple votes. 10:49 drojf trust me, the more interesting gaming part is getting the fakes out of the votes 10:50 drojf the mechanism has not been relevant in both votes i managed 10:50 drojf but it could be of course 10:50 thd Option 3 is the only one although with many variants used in government elections. 10:51 cait hm whta i see would be like 3 options 10:51 cait y/n, y/n/m and rank 10:51 cait well rank all / don't rank all 10:51 thd There is no perfectly correct voting system possible but the problems of each should be at least linked. 10:52 thd If people are not forced to rank all then you have the equivalent of score voting. 10:53 thd If a significant number of 'fakes' would go undetected score voting may maximise the problem with fakes. 10:54 thd Forcing even 'fakes' to rank all options would reduce gaming. 10:54 thd However, If we would have only two options then there would be not much of an issue. 10:54 drojf so far we have 1 10:54 drojf lol 10:55 cait thd: the fakes are human 10:55 cait in our case 10:55 cait humans multiple voting 10:55 cait whatever scheme we choose, will be gameable, unless we remove fakes by ip/email address checking or similar 10:55 thd I know that the fakes we have had are humans ;) 10:56 drojf maybe a short question to the audience 10:57 thd The downside of score voting is if people do not vote honestly but vote strategically. 10:57 davidnind method first I think, then work out way to minimise fakes 10:57 drojf who here knows what they would choose, and who cares at all? 10:58 thd Strategic voting is most difficult with option 3 but would still need a counting method. 10:58 cait I feel like i might be missing something 10:58 * mveron has to leave - and would vote vor y/n/m 10:58 cait i am not sure what we try to prevent here 10:58 mveron Bye #koha 10:58 cait if i don't want to go to one locationand don't wnat to gvie it poitns - would that be strategic voting... and what is bad about it? 10:59 thd Have we always used some variant of option 3 in the past for KohaCon with the issue then being how we counted the votes? 11:00 thd The problem is only when some people vote strategically and others vote honestly. 11:00 drojf what does that mean? 11:01 thd It may be less of an issue if the range is only 1 and 0. 11:01 davidnind I don't really understand the nuance about 'strategic' voting, or voting 'honestly' - vote is a vote? 11:01 drojf strategically vs honestly? 11:01 LibraryClaire hello 11:01 magnuse #info Magnus Enger, Libriotech, Norway 11:01 drojf hi LibraryClaire. we are in a meeting, you should introduce yourself 11:02 thd If I choose to vote strategically I would vote the maximum value permitted for my preferred choice and minimum for all others. 11:02 LibraryClaire #info Claire Gravely, UAL, UK 11:02 cait yeah.. but if you only woudl attend that one kohacon? 11:03 cait in that place? 11:03 cait i am not sure I understand why this is a bad thing in itself 11:03 drojf thd: yes, the question is kind of, do people want to have that or not. i am fine with all options, but we should have a rule. because so far, after the vote starts, people complain that it is the one way or the other 11:03 drojf and i dont see why i should not vote maximum for the one location i can go 11:04 drojf that is what people do 11:04 thd Honest voters who give every candidate due consideration have the strength of their vote diluted. 11:04 drojf what is honest about that? 11:04 drojf that term does not make any sense in that context 11:04 bgkriegel #info Bernardo Gonzalez Kriegel, Córdoba, Argentina 11:05 drojf hi bgkriegel 11:05 thd 'Honest' means in this case not disproportionately artificially lowering the vote given to lesser preferences. 11:05 bgkriegel hi drojf ! 11:06 cait hi bernardo :) 11:06 drojf how is that more honest than vote for the place i wanna go and null for the others? 11:06 thd 'Strategic' voting boosts the overall strength of each strategic vote. 11:07 thd drojf: If that is your true position to give all weight to one candidate then voting that way is fine. 11:08 cait ok, so maybe first question is 11:08 cait do we want ranking? 11:08 eythian just use STV and be done with it unless there's only a couple of options in which case it doesn't matter anyway, it's not really a matter that requires so much wasted time discussing it. 11:08 cait or do we want to say yes/no/(maybe) 11:08 thd The problem comes when others do not express their vote as strongly and consequently have their vote diminished in the counting. 11:08 cait eythian: what is stv? 11:08 thd We have always used ranking in some form for voting on KohaCon. 11:08 cait not true 11:08 cait we had yes/no last time 11:08 eythian cait: order your preferences from 1 to n, or similar. 11:09 thd Almost always :) 11:09 drojf i am fine with ranking all, i just want a decision :P 11:09 drojf before the vote is conducted 11:09 drojf we can just choose to go with that if its what people prefer 11:10 cait eythian: so that's rank all then? 11:10 drojf and who wants to veto has to write a 20 page proposal for next year 11:10 thd I would like to suggest ranking with the same counting method used in the Debian community. 11:10 drojf what counting method may that be? 11:10 eythian cait: I think it's usually implemented as being allowed to skip, but it doesn't matter. 11:10 * thd checks. 11:10 drojf it does matter 11:11 eythian everyone loves bikeshedding voting discussions. 11:11 drojf because that will be the point people complain about then :P 11:11 drojf ok. proposal: 11:11 cait ok 11:11 cait so lets vote ranking or yes/no/(maybe) to limit this down a bit 11:11 davidnind my view - keep as simple as possible: either yes/no, or rank options from 1 to 3 for example if three proposals 11:11 cait #startvote Which voting method do you prefer? (rank, options) 11:11 huginn` Begin voting on: Which voting method do you prefer? Valid vote options are , rank, options, . 11:11 huginn` Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 11:12 drojf two votes. first: yes/whatever/no or ranking. second: depending on first: yes/no or yes/maybe/no OR ranking/all or ranking/skip 11:12 cait #vote rank 11:12 drojf #vote rank 11:12 LibraryClaire #vote rank 11:13 davidnind #vote rank 11:13 khall #vote rank 11:13 eythian #vote rank 11:13 thd #vote rank 11:13 Diman #vote rank 11:13 cait waiting a few more seconds... 11:13 schnydszch #vote rank 11:13 indradg #vote rank 11:13 cait #endvote 11:13 huginn` Voted on "Which voting method do you prefer?" Results are 11:13 huginn` rank (10): LibraryClaire, davidnind, cait, eythian, khall, indradg, thd, drojf, Diman, schnydszch 11:14 cait #agreed the voting mechanism will be 'ranking' 11:14 druthb o/ 11:14 drojf look, that was easy 11:14 khall hi druthb! 11:14 cait ok, now rank all or rank the one you want to go to? 11:14 drojf so do all vs skip and we are done :) 11:14 thd Debian uses the Condorcet method with a Schulze count if I am not mistaken. 11:14 druthb hiyas. 11:14 cait or all vs skip yep 11:14 cait #startvote Do you want to rank all (all) or be able to not rank those you wouldn't be able to attend (skip) (all,skip)? 11:14 huginn` Begin voting on: Do you want to rank all (all) or be able to not rank those you wouldn't be able to attend (skip) (all,skip)? Valid vote options are Yes, No. 11:14 huginn` Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. 11:15 thd If you do not rank all then you have score voting. 11:15 thd You do not have rank voting if you do not rank all. 11:15 thd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_criterion 11:15 davidnind #vote all 11:15 cait #vote all 11:15 LibraryClaire #vote all 11:15 thd #vote all 11:16 schnydszch #vote all 11:16 Diman #vote all 11:16 thd Ranking only one reduces to 'strategic' score voting. 11:16 cait ending vote in a quick moment 11:17 cait #endvote 11:17 huginn` Voted on "Do you want to rank all (all) or be able to not rank those you wouldn't be able to attend (skip) (all,skip)?" Results are 11:17 cait #agreed The ranking will require to rank all bidders/locations. 11:17 thd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulze_method 11:17 drojf thanks 11:17 drojf that was easy. only took 8 months :P 11:17 cait shouldn't ask - but is the points given to each clear then? 11:18 thd The count is not clear without specifying. 11:18 eythian cait: what is your question? 11:18 drojf we have not discussed that. :P 11:18 cait eythian: how points will be given 11:19 eythian cait: ranking is not allocating points 11:19 cait i think we shoudl discuss counting at the nextmeeting tho 11:19 drojf eythian: you could count more points for rank 1 than rank 2. 11:19 cait eythian: how do you see who won? 11:20 eythian drojf: no, that's not how you do it 11:20 eythian a meeting is not the place for this though :) 11:20 drojf eythian: its possible and a thing people do 11:20 drojf but we reached the decision for today. if anyone wants to bring that up next time, alright. i would not ;) 11:21 drojf next topic? :) 11:21 thd` What just happened? My connection dropped. 11:22 thd` We still need a counting system. 11:22 thd` I suggest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulze_method which is used by Debian and some other software communities. 11:22 cait phone 11:22 cait #chair drojf 11:22 huginn` Current chairs: cait drojf 11:24 davidnind My opinion - way to complicated for what we are trying to achieve + we have already voted 11:25 davidnind This is my summary with an example of what we voted for: example 3 choices (proposals) - rank 1, 2 and 3 for the 3 options however you choose (have to rank all), proposal with the highest count 'wins'? 11:26 thd`` The counting method can actually change the outcome in ranked voting so it is important to use one which seems to give a fair result expressing people's actual preferences in as wide a range of actual circumstances as possible. 11:26 drojf oh why did i become chair? cait gone? 11:26 drojf ah phone 11:26 drojf ok next topic 11:26 wahanui hmmm... next topic is a tricky one... 11:26 thd`` I am having real trouble staying connected today. 11:27 drojf we had a lot of fakes last time, and the question was, if we would take more info this time for people voting 11:27 thd Do we still lack a counting method for ranked voting? Are we deferring the issue of counting method? 11:28 drojf so far we only had an email address (and ip addresses and referrers). do you consider it good or bad to also get the name and maybe institution of people voting? 11:28 drojf i would like to do that (if i conduct the vote), because its way more work for fakes. the will still be there of course 11:29 drojf but i would be interested in your opinion about it. any cons? 11:30 thd We should collect as much brief information as we can reasonably and privately without overburdoning the process for everyone. 11:30 cait institution would leave out people interested comeing 'themselves' maybe 11:30 cait still phone sorry 11:30 eythian just so long as it would be clear that it's OK for anyone not attached to an institution to have a procedure 11:30 davidnind some people are not part of organisations, so could be optional 11:31 drojf good point 11:31 thd A note would be needed for institution allowing none, blank, individual, or some equivalent. 11:31 drojf if it's ok to have none, it's probably not worth bothering some about it? 11:32 eythian could you check for a valid email, or does that then become a Lot More Work? 11:33 thd How advantageous might such a field be for identifying fakes or encouraging people to be honest and avoiding fakes in the first place? 11:33 drojf ok. i would not vote on that. if necessary we could do that next time. just think about it 11:33 drojf eythian: valid email format yes, valid email like click a link in the email probably not, and not worth it 11:33 drojf in my experience people just use work and private email 11:33 drojf or several of those 11:33 eythian true 11:34 davidnind the joys of 'online voting'! 11:34 drojf thd: if you can leave it blank, probably not so much. i can't assume somebody to be more of a fake for not filling a non-required field 11:34 drojf and they could just put whatever anyway 11:34 drojf i'll think about it for next time 11:34 drojf moving on? 11:35 davidnind yes please 11:35 drojf #topic Actions from General IRC meeting 6 April 2016 (deferred) and General IRC meeting 4 May 2016 (none) 11:35 thd However, would people be discouraged from faking or hesitate to fake from having the question of institution put to them? 11:35 drojf there seem to be none 11:35 drojf that was the last point on the agenda 11:36 drojf we need a date for next time 11:36 drojf #topic next meeting 11:36 eythian http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-illusion-of-being-observed-can-make-you-better-person/ <-- just put a giant eye on the page 11:36 drojf july 6, 20 UTC? 11:37 drojf please do a +1 or something ;) 11:37 bgkriegel +1 11:37 drojf waiting for another minute or its decided ;) 11:38 davidnind +1 11:38 LibraryClaire +1 11:38 davidnind something :) 11:38 drojf #agreed next meeting july 6, 20 UTC 11:38 drojf #endmeeting 11:38 huginn` Meeting ended Wed Jun 8 11:38:41 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) 11:38 huginn` Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/general_irc_meeting__8_june_2016.2016-06-08-10.14.html 11:38 huginn` Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/general_irc_meeting__8_june_2016.2016-06-08-10.14.txt 11:38 huginn` Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/general_irc_meeting__8_june_2016.2016-06-08-10.14.log.html 11:38 drojf thanks everyone 11:38 davidnind cait++ 11:39 davidnind drojf++ 11:39 cait drojf++ thx for taking over 11:40 druthb crojf++ 11:40 druthb drofj++ #can't type; has a dumb 11:40 druthb cait++ 11:41 eythian @karma crojf 11:41 huginn` eythian: Karma for "crojf" has been increased 1 time and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 1. 11:41 druthb :P 11:41 eythian @karma drofj 11:41 huginn` eythian: Karma for "drofj" has been increased 3 times and decreased 0 times for a total karma of 3. 11:41 eythian a more popular typo 11:41 drojf lol 11:42 LibraryClaire cait++ 11:42 LibraryClaire drojf++ 11:42 LibraryClaire sorry for turning up late - I was stuck on the underground 11:42 thd` Do we have a date for the next meeting? 11:43 eythian wahanui: logs 11:43 wahanui logs is http://irc.koha-community.org/koha/ 11:43 * thd` keeps losing the connection. 11:44 thd` As I feared, my friend is in court that day. 11:47 thd Sorry to all for not having had more time to put voting issues in the wiki and also bring them up on the mailing list. 11:48 drojf thd: plenty of time for the kohacon 2018 vote if you feel like it 11:50 thd drojf: I know. The last few weeks have left me extraordinarily sleep deprived trying to find a lawyer for my friend. 11:50 eythian https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5HX67WqUSY <-- drojf, apropos of nothing 11:54 thd eythian: Twice as funny for being a parody based upon the work of copyright maximalist musicians. 11:55 drojf lol 11:59 eythian https://goo.gl/photos/eWmPi5mFtDFceQUG9 <-- cait, rangi: 4 years ago today 11:59 cait heh 11:59 cait edinburgh? 11:59 wahanui well, edinburgh is for sure now 11:59 druthb lol 11:59 drojf lol 11:59 nengard druthb? 11:59 wahanui She's really more trouble than she's worth, you know? 11:59 nengard HA!!! 12:00 eythian cait: yeah 12:00 druthb yes? 12:00 * druthb agrees with wahanui 12:00 drojf ashimema: around? 12:04 ashimema :) 12:04 ashimema am now.. for a little while.. whats up drojf 12:05 bgkriegel druthb: Happy birthday! :) 12:06 druthb Thanks, bgkriegel. :) 12:08 * thd quits before he is disconnected again. 12:15 drojf davidnind++ # already made a wiki page for next meeting 12:30 drojf icecream break? 12:38 nengard i want ice cream 12:50 drojf nengard: i got chocolate and mango now. want some? ;) 12:53 nengard yes 12:53 nengard chocolate please :) 12:56 * drojf throws chocolate icecream around the globe 13:03 nengard WOOO HOOOO 13:04 * magnuse marvels at the chocolate icecream flying by the window 13:07 * druthb would take some mango please, drojf. 13:07 druthb Just throw a little to the left of nengard. 13:10 drojf i need an icecream cannon 13:11 cait better not 13:12 drojf hm. may have talked myself into setting up shibboleth. oops 13:13 magnuse great way to learn something new :-) 13:13 drojf hm. yes. i guess. 13:14 drojf i should shoot some icecream in the general ashimema direction as a precaution, so i can go there and cry about it later 13:17 ashimema haha.. good luck ;) 13:18 eythian drojf: hmm, SAML is not an enjoyable experience in general 13:19 drojf i am not sure if it is actually a solution to what they want. will find out later this week 13:20 drojf from what i understand they would need koha to be the identity provider for something else, i don't see that happening 13:20 drojf at least as far as i understand shibboleth in koha 13:21 cait hm no 13:21 cait service provider, but not identity provider 13:21 drojf yes 13:21 magnuse t'would be cool if koha could be an identity provider, though 13:21 eythian yeah, I've made it be an SP before 13:21 drojf i think they want to outsource that part to koha from another system 13:21 eythian magnuse: no, it wouldn't. 13:22 eythian it would be a terrible maintenance job 13:22 magnuse oh? 13:22 magnuse if koha was the source of truth about users? 13:22 magnuse or maintaining the code? 13:22 eythian supporting SAML is terrible enough from the SP point of view 13:23 eythian maintaining the code and configuring the systems to work 13:23 eythian all would be horrible 13:24 ashimema If I were going to go about being an Identity Provider I'd use one of the half decent off the shelf solutions ;) 13:24 ashimema Shibboleth has IdP packages and SimpleSAMLphp works pretty reasonably 13:24 magnuse yeah, that sounds like a better ideea 13:24 eythian the only IdP I've had any interaction with was bad. But it was commercial and enterprisey. 13:25 ashimema simplesamlphp would be where I'd start.. build a quick php driver to look at the koha borrowers tables as it's source 13:25 eythian ashimema: stop wanting that :) 13:25 eythian don't look at the table 13:25 eythian look at a user API 13:25 drojf i'd be up for not being an identity provider and they just implement sip2 auth in that other thing :P 13:25 * ashimema has actually done this for a customer once.. it wasn't pretty but it worked 13:25 eythian a database schema is not an API :) 13:25 eythian (well, I suppose it literally is, but it shouldn't be treated like one.) 13:25 ashimema I don't want that ;) 13:26 ashimema this was before the uesr api was any good ;)_ 13:26 ashimema ++ for api 13:28 drojf people should not be allowed to send me emails until i am through all the old ones 13:29 magnuse drojf: except new customers? :-) 13:29 * magnuse wanders off 13:29 drojf or… they should be allowed to send emails, but not allowed to start waiting for an answer before i am done with the others 13:29 eythian drojf: I think I'm below 1,500 unread now. 13:29 drojf magnuse: yes :D 13:30 liw drojf, I have sometimes considered a bot that autoresponds to mails in my needs-responding folder with a mail saying "Thank you for your email. Your email is important to us. We well get to it shortly. You are now number N in the queue. Have a nice day." 13:30 drojf liw: people would love it 13:31 drojf that icecream made me want to sleep. it was not even that much 13:31 liw instead i have a cronjob that runs http://paste.debian.net/726617/ every morning 13:33 drojf liw: the "do something about it" part needs more work. like, actually doing something, while you go to bed for another hour 13:34 liw I could easily automatically delete anything older than a week, but I'm quite ready for that :) 13:35 drojf delete everything 13:35 drojf delete sender 13:38 drojf [off] i wonder why people with a regular IT want to oursource koha. i'm torn between "yay give me all your money" and "if you do all the other things, i could just show you how to do it in an afternoon" 13:40 eythian drojf: it's relatively specialised software, from their point of view. 13:41 drojf [off] oh, looks like they are windows only. bad luck 13:41 eythian that too 13:41 drojf [off] eythian: it is, i'd still recommend hiring me for some things ;) 13:42 eythian [off] drojf: nah, I'll just do it myself :) 13:42 drojf [off] lousy DIY culture not making me rich 13:54 drojf i still have not set up koha 16.05 on a raspi 3 with plack. i guess that could really work in production for a small library 13:55 drojf when do other people do all the stuff they want to do? sigh. 13:56 * liw throws http://gtdfh.branchable.com/ at drojf 13:56 drojf heh thanks, reading that is on the pile of stuff i did not have time for yet (not kidding) 13:57 liw heh 13:57 drojf i could start by making different piles from the one pile, then putting the smaller piles everywhere 13:57 liw I've heard that response before 13:57 drojf and then have nowhere to walk and sit on the couch for a week 13:58 liw it's about 11000 words so not long 14:10 LibraryClaire hallo 14:11 drojf eythian: do we (did we when you were packaging manager) keep track somewhere in a central place why we require certain versions of dependencies? or is that just my job to know it all or look up all single bugs? 14:12 drojf at least for some stuff i have seen regarding catmandu it would make sense to gather that somewhere 14:12 eythian we don't really declare them in the package (we could, but we don't) 14:12 eythian in general, my policy was "get the latest one" 14:13 drojf i was looking at bug 16695 14:13 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16695 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Exception::Class 1.39 is not packaged for Jessie 14:14 eythian https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Building_Debian_Dependencies/Dependency_Guidelines <-- tell people off for violating point 3 14:14 drojf that versions seems to be kind of arbitrary in that case. for catmandu there were things like "get that version of a because b requires it or c will break and 4 will deinstall koha-common" 14:15 eythian but anyway, there's no central database of it, things didn't tend to get that complicated 14:16 drojf ok, maybe i just had a funny case to start with. if that does not happen all the time it can be found in the bug report 14:17 drojf or i add a wiki page for the crazy stuff that i find on the way 14:17 drojf oh i still need to write that email to the debian perl people 14:17 eythian joubu fixed it there anyway, but don't forget to check back into wheezy too. 14:17 drojf are the presentations up btw? or would you send me the packaging one? 14:18 liw I'd document the package dependency changes in debian/changelog 14:18 eythian I linked it in the talk itself, you shoulda been paying attention ;) 14:18 eythian (one moment) 14:18 eythian liw: it's not packaging specific generally though, which makes that more complicated 14:19 eythian https://owncloud.kallisti.net.nz/s/V38lAuuuCfxdGY5 <-- drojf 14:20 drojf i did pay attention, but i did all the exercises :P 14:37 drojf oh look, i got two wiki pages for packaging. i am great at that information management thing 14:51 LibraryClaire greedy 14:52 eythian wizzycrayfish is up early 15:06 wizzycray very early :) 15:33 mveron Hi again #koha 15:48 drojf hi mveron 15:48 mveron hi drojf 15:50 mveron drojf: Did you see the comment on Bug 16346? 15:50 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16346 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, wizzyrea, In Discussion , Website should be translatable 15:52 drojf i did 16:32 reiveune bye 16:58 * drojf heads home 17:34 drojf @wunder berlin, germany 17:34 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 22.0°C (7:20 PM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 43%. Dew Point: 9.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady). 17:34 drojf really tries that summer thing 17:43 LibraryClaire @wunder Guildford, uk 17:43 huginn` LibraryClaire: The current temperature in Chilworth, Chilworth, United Kingdom is 21.2°C (6:42 PM BST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 71%. Dew Point: 16.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Steady). 17:43 LibraryClaire humid :( 17:44 drojf 71% means you can almost swim 17:45 LibraryClaire feels like :P 17:45 nengard @wunder 78754 17:45 huginn` nengard: The current temperature in North Acres, Austin, Texas is 31.8°C (12:40 PM CDT on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 55%. Dew Point: 22.0°C. Pressure: 29.95 in 1014 hPa (Steady). 19:16 * barbara_ slaps barbara_ around a bit with a large fishbot 19:42 asdf Hey guys. Is there an upgrade process listed somewhere for going from 3.22 to 16.05? (debian package install). Will simply following the upgrade instructions in the INSTALL file be sufficient? 19:43 gmcharlt_ asdf: http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/Debian-packages-for-16-05-00-td5890242.html 19:45 asdf Thanks! Will this retain system preferences, catalogs, etc., or will a full backup/restore be necessary? 20:02 * cait waves 20:02 LibraryClaire hi cait 20:02 cait hey - how are you doing? 20:02 cait throat getting better? 20:03 * drojf waits to see if cait runs out again 20:04 LibraryClaire still not amazing, I think it's turning into a cough now, but I can function (just) ;) 20:06 LibraryClaire how's the mass of email? 20:08 cait slowly getting through it 20:08 cait at least some of the piles are shrinking :) 20:08 cait drojf: not for a little bit longer 20:09 LibraryClaire :) 20:10 drojf then hi cait :) 20:10 cait hi drojf :) 20:13 eythian I think I caught something from you people 20:14 eythian have a sore throat setting in 20:14 * cait blames LibraryClaire :P 20:14 LibraryClaire hey, someone gave this to me! 20:14 * cait just unpacked a new fitbit 20:14 LibraryClaire aaw, you didn't find yours? 20:14 cait it's can't have been the person coughing all the time *hides* 20:14 cait no, didn't turn up again 20:14 LibraryClaire aw :( 20:15 cait sacrifice to the gods of travel i guess 20:15 eythian after telling me off for leaving my tablet on the plane... 20:15 rangi https://www.flickr.com/photos/ranginui/albums/72157666855401463 20:15 cait yeah... i should have known better 20:15 cait oh even more pictues 20:16 drojf haha weird people on a boat 20:16 cait very weird people :) 20:16 rangi drojf: i only put online the one where you cant tell who you are :) 20:17 rangi i can send you the others if you want 20:17 drojf :D 20:17 drojf that would be nice 20:18 LibraryClaire yay pics :D 20:18 drojf i miss greece 20:18 rangi yeah it was a lovely place 20:19 eythian https://goo.gl/photos/Fcoc1ne7q3SSL8Gv9 <-- more 20:19 rangi oh cool you got one of the horseless carriage 20:19 * cait misses people 20:20 drojf eythian: great job at making the distance between amsterdam and berlin seem really huge 20:20 LibraryClaire lol 20:20 eythian yeah :) 20:21 eythian https://photos.google.com/movie/AF1QipPBodX1eA7__EUtUV8jlCaxp4eQLPm-94Eo_sVR <-- or in video form (warning: sound) 20:21 cait 404 20:22 eythian https://goo.gl/photos/mo7Ht1z4azCpwwEN7 <-- try this 20:22 eythian (I copied the wrong link) 20:24 eythian @wunder ams 20:24 eythian :< 20:24 huginn` eythian: Error: timed out 20:24 rangi eythian: joh was stoked with the ink 20:24 eythian sweet 20:24 eythian @wunder ams 20:24 huginn` eythian: The current temperature in Schiphol, Badhoevedorp, Netherlands is 13.7°C (10:24 PM CEST on June 08, 2016). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.21 in 1023 hPa (Rising). 20:25 eythian it's cold here, why is my apartment so damn warm with everything open? 20:25 drojf fire? 20:25 wahanui fire is http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/72725341/man-accidentally-sets-room-on-fire-during-live-stream 20:26 eythian I hope now 20:26 eythian not 20:26 rangi fire at the mcdonalds here 20:26 LibraryClaire :/ 20:28 drojf eythian: have you tried the unlabelled tsipouro yet? 20:29 eythian yeah, had it yesterday 20:29 eythian a bit bitier than some of the others 20:29 eythian but not bad 20:30 rangi oh, that reminds me, i need to drink the beers you and joubu gave me 20:32 eythian http://www.funda.nl/koop/amsterdam/huis-49876819-herengracht-518-keizersgracht-633-p/ <-- time to buy a place here I guess 20:32 LibraryClaire just for the weekends :P 20:33 * LibraryClaire whispers 'it has a library...' 20:34 eythian Well, it only has 18 bedrooms. Of course only for weekends. 20:35 drojf eythian: i think that is true bathtub tsipouro. not tried yet but smells different 20:38 Dyrcona eythian: That's nothing. Kim Dotcom's place is up for sale: http://www.nzfarms.co.nz/2760510 20:39 eythian 12 bedrooms? What am I, some kind of peasant? 20:39 Dyrcona heh! 20:40 cait brb 20:54 rangi drojf: https://twitter.com/mikeforbes/status/740648028961263616 <-- wellington isn't so bad today either 20:55 LibraryClaire that's pretty! 20:57 drojf nice! 21:33 rangi https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOWIRtACrXZbsHD5DwoGoy2qFAHf1_IkPqCVYuoAl2OSxobzxzhDf9orYN26ZO6OQ/photo/AF1QipM0oLZA2atS1t-6FFWAgGoe3OmkiVWO0BoxCQ7n?key=Y0NkNl9WNGtvZzNsaFYxb1hwV1d6aUFvdnNBUU93 <-- lol i look wasted (i probably was) 21:34 drojf cait does a nice whatever she is doing 21:34 cait hm? 21:34 cait ah what? 21:34 wahanui i heard ah was ? 21:34 LibraryClaire magic 21:35 cait yep that 21:35 wahanui yep that is probably what I see when I go into circ rules. 21:35 LibraryClaire lol 21:35 drojf a shadow rabbit 21:53 tcohen hi 21:53 tcohen hi cait 21:54 cait hi tcohen :) 21:54 tcohen rangi: cool pictures 21:55 tcohen rangi: it looks like it was too much beer for the day for you 21:56 rangi heh, i think that was just the first one, but it was a hot day 22:13 drojf good night #koha 22:23 kidclamp any know if there is a way to search or sort in bugzilla by number of cc's/followers 22:23 rangi not that i know of 22:23 kidclamp darn 22:25 cait number of comments... but number of ccs haven't seen 22:29 kidclamp how can you do # of comments cait? 22:31 cait hm let me see 22:32 cait if you change columns 22:33 cait it's one of hte options you can select 22:33 cait number of comments 22:34 kidclamp cool, thanks! 22:35 kidclamp so I need to tell people to comment, not just follow :-) 22:35 rangi whats the use case? 22:37 kidclamp in trying to get users more involved I always tell them to follow the bugs they are interested in 22:37 kidclamp would be nice to say 'hey 20 people are looking at this bug, maybe I should fix it' 22:37 cait night all :) 22:38 kidclamp night cairt 22:38 kidclamp cait even 22:39 kidclamp I was gonna suggest it as a dashboard add-on - most (un)popular bugs 22:41 kidclamp goodnight all 23:03 wizzyrea heh