Time  Nick            Message
18:47 oleonard        You guys are making me feel like a chump for working this late on a Friday afternoon.
16:16 oleonard        cait around?
15:50 wahanui         bonjour, tcohen
15:50 tcohen          hi
15:43 oleonard        Or is there another good way to identify that the user is in testing vs. production?
15:34 oleonard        Is turning DEBUG on in Koha something people typically do during development, or only for testing something specific? Or never?
15:11 drojf           harvested and imported a record via OAI-PMH. woohoo
15:09 kidclamp        have agood weekend Joubu
15:08 reiveune        bye
14:57 Joubu           bye!
14:40 huginn          barton: tcohen was last seen in #koha 22 hours, 29 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <tcohen> I signed, and Joubu got involved
14:40 barton          @seen tcohen
14:13 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10589 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, mtompset, Failed QA , Override OpacHiddenItems based on Patron Category
14:13 mtompset        bug 10589
14:13 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=1058 major, P2, ---, chris, CLOSED FIXED, Intranet detail screen does not show lost or cancelled statuses
14:13 mtompset        Next pain... back to bug 1058
14:13 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11592 major, P3, ---, mtompset, Needs Signoff , opac detail scripts do not respect MARC tag visibility
14:13 mtompset        Finally! Bug 11592 is ready for sign off.
14:12 * mtompset      let's out a big breath.
14:10 mtompset        Greetings, drojf.
14:10 drojf           hi mtompset
14:10 drojf           oleonard: it's probably cold when it arrives at your place
14:10 mtompset        Greetings, #koha.
14:07 oleonard        I think you should make me pizza too.
14:07 drojf           i think i should make pizza too
14:01 drojf           it looks like you actually got an en-dash, not a minus in front of your "create". maybe you need "koha-remove –create-db"
13:58 Spartan01       thanks mate
13:57 drojf           (i am confused that worked at all, i thought you get an error if you do that)
13:56 drojf           try "koha-remove -create-db" and then start again
13:56 drojf           you set up a library named -create-db now, not one named library, and you did not create a db
13:55 drojf           its "koha-create --create-db library"
13:55 drojf           hm yes
13:55 Spartan01       "sudo koha-create –create-db library"
13:55 Spartan01       my command was sudo koha-create –create-db library
13:55 drojf           what does your koha-create command look like?
13:54 drojf           that looks like you issued the wrong command
13:54 Spartan01       the error is "failed to load external entity "/etc/koha/sites/–create-db/koha-conf.xml"
13:54 Spartan01       After installing koha-common, am failing to create an instance
13:54 Spartan01       Am running Linux Mint
13:53 oleonard        Spartan01: Ask your question and if anyone knows they answer they can try to help
13:49 Spartan01       need help with a koha installation
13:49 Spartan01       hello anyone online?
13:35 * magnuse       wanders off to make pizza
13:35 magnuse         i'd call that a self fulfilling prophecy :-)
13:34 oleonard        There you go magnuse. wahanui knew.
13:34 wahanui         somebody said spa was single page application
13:34 magnuse         spa?
13:33 magnuse         i presume?
13:33 magnuse         SPA is single page application
13:30 drojf           anyway, cool start
13:30 drojf           ok harvesting (downloading) works, but importing into koha does not. i only got a leader field that is broken
13:28 oleonard        You too kivilahtio
13:27 kivilahtio      have a nice weekend!
13:24 kivilahtio      oleonard: but I agree that convincing everybody is a big challenge
13:23 kivilahtio      migrating to plack helps a lot but we can go much further with a SPA.
13:22 kivilahtio      it is miraculous, even magica to our librarians who are used to Koha pageloading 2-5 seconds, things happen instantly
13:21 kivilahtio      oleonard: with the REST API in use we must start using a good javascript framework.  We are making very responsive improvements to Koha with the REST API
13:21 oleonard        kivilahtio: I will take a lot of effort to convince everyone to start using a framework that few are familiar with.
13:20 kivilahtio      oleonard: of course it doesnt mean that we scrap the existing GUI's
13:20 kivilahtio      oleonard: yes, and a huge benefit
13:20 oleonard        kivilahtio: It sounds like a lot of work! :)
13:19 kivilahtio      oleonard: how does that sound like?
13:13 kivilahtio      hence we need some framework to support that development and act as a common guideline/pattern for everybody developing the front end
13:12 kivilahtio      have  a separate app for Cataloguing, like Rancor
13:11 kivilahtio      ha a own app for Acquisition
13:11 kivilahtio      I believe we should refactor Koha towards a SPA-type application
13:11 kivilahtio      depending on how we build the front end
13:11 kivilahtio      or bunch of SPAs
13:11 kivilahtio      oleonard: for writing the whole front end SPA
13:10 oleonard        kivilahtio: Meaning it would be used for a specific type of functionality?
13:10 kivilahtio      thanks
13:10 jajm            kivilahtio, i feel that it will be hard to move from angularjs to something else when angular will become "not cool", like so many js frameworks tends to become, and i don't know the benefits of it
13:10 kivilahtio      oleonard: I guess I mean AngularJS vs Flux vs RiotJS
13:09 oleonard        kivilahtio: When you say "the javascript framework for Koha" you mean to replace jQuery?
13:08 kivilahtio      maybe not the best either :)
13:08 kivilahtio      I am sure it is not a bad choice
13:07 kivilahtio      khall seems to strongly believe in AngularJS
13:07 kivilahtio      without knowing much about it. Imho there are so many frameworks and styles the making an informed deision is next to impossible. Much like with Mojolicious
13:07 cait            benjamin++
13:07 kivilahtio      I mean you must have a hunch?
13:06 kivilahtio      could you accept it as the javascript framework for Koha
13:06 kivilahtio      Joubu: jajm: ashimema: are you against AngularJS?
13:00 kivilahtio      just explained to jajm that I get so much mail all the notifications dont work for me
13:00 kivilahtio      :)
13:00 kivilahtio      Joubu: I understand. You didnät pm me
12:56 kivilahtio      ashimema: ok take care!
12:51 ashimema        as for me.. i'm mid migrations at the moment so can't take the time out for such a context switch
12:51 ashimema        My angular man is out today.. but i can get him to look on monday if he can squeeze it in
12:51 jajm            kivilahtio, never saw angularjs in action, can't say anything about it
12:50 Joubu           I ask for months to see code, I don't want to talk, just want to see code :)
12:48 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14974 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Use the REST API for cities
12:48 kivilahtio      ashimema: jajm: Joubu: can you comment on Bug 14974?
12:37 magnuse         dcook++
12:37 magnuse         yay!
12:37 kidclamp        huzzah!
12:36 drojf           dcook++
12:36 drojf           oh look, i harvested a record
12:22 Oak             Thanks. Let me check these.
12:22 kidclamp        https://github.com/digibib/kohadevbox/tree/ansible
12:21 kidclamp        https://github.com/mkfifo/koha-gitify
12:21 kidclamp        Oak - I would suggest starting on the sandboxes, but i f you need to do unit tests you will need to setup a dev environment, either koha-gitify or kohadevbox (ansible branch) are the easiest ways I know to get started
12:19 Oak             what is the best way to test koha patches (apply patch + unit test + signoff) currently? Link?
11:57 drojf           or how does that happen?
11:57 drojf           pushed a non-rebased patch?
11:57 drojf           huh?
11:56 oleonard        Immediately after, in fact :(
11:55 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15692 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Pushed to Master , Move some patron entry form JavaScript into members.js
11:55 oleonard        Ugh... the changes I made in Bug 15692 got undone somewhere along the line
11:47 Oak             Hello oleonard
11:46 oleonard        Hi #koha
11:37 saa             Error: YAML Error: Invalid element in sequence Code: YAML_LOAD_ERR_BAD_SEQ_ELEMENT Line: 2 Document: 1 at /usr/local/share/perl/5.18.2/YAML/Loader.pm line 377.
11:37 saa             in configuration when i cut paste following it throws error - id: 86 selector: #coverflow options: style: coverflow
11:36 saa             i am trying to get coverpages in OPAC i installed koha coverflow plugin
09:34 kivilahtio      occasionally
09:32 wahanui         okay, kivilahtio.
09:32 kivilahtio      I am also wrong :)
09:32 Joubu           does not take the right decision, etc.
09:32 kivilahtio      it is not your fault
09:32 Joubu           Koha community is slow blablabla
09:32 kivilahtio      good :)
09:32 Joubu           sorry, do not have the time to troll^Wdiscuss about that
09:30 kivilahtio      Joubu: but you don't agree with the rest of it?
09:26 Joubu           to have knowledge and to be impatient, no
09:25 kivilahtio      Joubu: does that count as rambling?
09:24 kivilahtio      and I am impatient, more so than our librarians
09:24 kivilahtio      I know so I want
09:24 kivilahtio      I dont know what to think :)
09:24 kivilahtio      Knowledge increases pain
09:24 kivilahtio      Buddha said, all pain and uncomfort comes from expectation/want.
09:23 kivilahtio      Joubu: I should have a break from work
09:22 wahanui         okay, kivilahtio.
09:22 kivilahtio      Joubu: I am also a father :)
09:22 Joubu           kivilahtio: you are getting old, you are rambling
09:16 kivilahtio      you too! take care!
09:16 kivilahtio      nice! I don't have to write our own OAI-PMH harvester :)
09:16 drojf           got to change the office. see you later
09:16 drojf           thanks!
09:14 drojf           i started setting it up yesterday but have not really started testing
09:14 kivilahtio      https://renki.pohjoiskarjala.net:8090/issues/671
09:14 kivilahtio      drojf: here is a ton of schematics and the feature development hub
09:11 kivilahtio      drojf: thanks! OAI-PMH is a part of the cataloguin center and other integrations we need to do
09:10 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10662 new feature, P3, ---, dcook, In Discussion , Build OAI-PMH Harvesting Client
09:10 drojf           did you check bug 10662? that may be interesting for you
09:08 kivilahtio      so you can drag and drop elements to make anykind of a print label you need
09:08 kivilahtio      drojf: Also we have a GUI to make print labels
09:08 kivilahtio      it nighly pulls cataloguing records from a central repository to overlay local records, we get when we acquire items
09:08 drojf           come on, share it :)
09:07 kivilahtio      it is very awkward so I havent shared it outside of our core users
09:07 kivilahtio      drojf: I have a nice screencast about it already
09:07 kivilahtio      so we have one central repository of cataloguing, and that is automatically reflected to all Kohas in Finland
09:06 drojf           wow, you got a lot of plans :)
09:06 kivilahtio      so lots of system-to-system communication
09:06 kivilahtio      drojf: currently I am working to improve our Koha to act as a national cataloguing center for all Koha users in Finland
09:06 kivilahtio      drojf: but this is how i feel currently :)
09:05 kivilahtio      so we have a hope of upgrading to the new community version
09:05 kivilahtio      also having to think constantly how to get around limitations in Koha, instead of refactoring the codebase to keep it healthy
09:05 drojf           i think the community is not really capable of keeping up with your speed
09:04 kivilahtio      it makes writing the front end much smoother
09:04 kivilahtio      I just finished CORS support for it :)
09:04 kivilahtio      what we have with the Mojolicious Swagger2 REST API is great
09:04 kivilahtio      this is a big issue for me., since we are writing more complex javascript GUI's by the day and the lack of infrastucture there makes things difficult
09:03 drojf           they are at ~170. you should register now ;)
09:03 kivilahtio      developing a javascript framework to support Koha internals
09:03 kivilahtio      not sure if we have registrated yet, so might be that we wont be coming if it is full
09:03 kivilahtio      but I guesss there will be less than 10 persons coming to KohaCon from Finland
09:02 wahanui         somebody said merging them was the wrong idea
09:02 kivilahtio      and merging them
09:02 kivilahtio      actually minifyinfg all web assets
09:02 kivilahtio      or actualyl having a testing framework
09:02 kivilahtio      complete overhaul of the testing framework
09:02 kivilahtio      like complete overhaul of the CGI architecture
09:01 kivilahtio      drojf: big changes that must happen
09:01 kivilahtio      drojf: thinking about the impossiblity of getting big changes to Koha
09:01 kivilahtio      I guess in Kohacon taking face to face it will be a lot different than in IRC
09:01 drojf           why is that?
09:01 kivilahtio      but I feel depressed about it already
09:01 kivilahtio      I would like to talk about the stuff we do
09:00 kivilahtio      drojf: I think from Finland there is a rather big delegation coming
09:00 drojf           are you coming to kohacon?
09:00 kivilahtio      drojf: I agree
08:59 drojf           regarding librarians testing, i'd say that depends on the feature. i don't see how a librarian using a sandbox and following a test plan is different from a programmer for smaller things. actually i think for UI and workflow stuff it would be better to have more librarians test it. maybe not so relevant for the hardcore changes you work on
08:59 kivilahtio      they look pretty swell
08:58 kivilahtio      drojf: there are also other marc implemetnations
08:58 kivilahtio      drojf: and a bunch of others
08:58 kivilahtio      drojf: he did
08:58 kivilahtio      I wish I lived in a perfect world
08:58 drojf           kivilahtio: you could probably enhance MARC::Record if you want. i think gmcharlt wrote it
08:58 * LibraryClaire wishes it was lunch time
08:57 kivilahtio      magnuse: you too!
08:57 * magnuse       wishes the fins the best of luck and wanders off to find lunch
08:56 kivilahtio      and huge decrease in productivity
08:56 kivilahtio      I guess it is the ideology and huge cost savings
08:56 kivilahtio      and there are a lot of libraries wanting to use Koha
08:56 kivilahtio      and we can run our libraries in Finland
08:56 kivilahtio      the positive thing I am happy about is that it works :)
08:55 kivilahtio      luckily we have our own infrastructure to make them so it is much much easier nowadays but it tooks us a lot of time to write TestObjectFactories and PageObjects
08:55 kivilahtio      also writing tests is so hard
08:54 kivilahtio      so painful
08:54 kivilahtio      all i get is title = 245, even tho it is much more
08:54 kivilahtio      etc
08:54 kivilahtio      I always need better support for accessing standard data elements from the record, like title, author, isbn, ean, languages
08:54 kivilahtio      drojf: one of my biggest gripes is MARC::Record
08:54 kivilahtio      drojf: and the Koha codebase is very annoying to work with. after these years it is really getting under my skin
08:53 kivilahtio      drojf: they really cannot say if the feature is goodfor production. They can make acceptance testing which is very different from code review
08:53 kivilahtio      drojf: I dont really trust this librarian testing thing
08:53 kivilahtio      magnuse: considering the pace at which features are adopted and the heated debate about the technical implementations not working for everybody,, I must bend toward pessimism in this case
08:53 drojf           if you got a lot of interest in finland, you could try to get lbrarians to take part in testing
08:52 magnuse         and eventually get stuff into koha?
08:52 magnuse         is there a long term goal for the fork to be temporary?
08:51 drojf           we need to breed a new generation of testers. we can't wait until the kids of the koha devs are old enough to make them test ;)
08:51 kivilahtio      but I  yeah, it looks like we have forked on many levels now
08:51 kivilahtio      I have been avoiding the word "haarukka"
08:51 kivilahtio      too bad we have a long list of stuff to do
08:50 kivilahtio      like hiring trainees to test stuff :)
08:50 kivilahtio      and we could budget worktime to work with the community and I try to squeese some occasionally
08:50 kivilahtio      this is just a fact we have to deal with
08:50 kivilahtio      drojf: I am not putting blame on anyone
08:50 kivilahtio      drojf: i know
08:49 kivilahtio      a lot of integrations to 3rd. parties
08:49 drojf           hm. if you check the list of enhancements, there are a lot of people handing in things and waiting, because we do not have enough testers. sorry it's too slow for you, biut it is slow for everyone
08:49 kivilahtio      we have legal requirements for ex that need to be fulfilled, then library usage rules cannot be 100% implemented using Koha's configuration mechanisms
08:49 kivilahtio      it would be simply impossible to use Koha in Finland that way
08:48 kivilahtio      there is no way we can wait for the community process to introduce new features
08:48 kivilahtio      drojf: looks like it :)
08:48 kivilahtio      interesting :)
08:48 drojf           so you have a fork in finland?
08:48 magnuse         koha haarukka?
08:48 kivilahtio      *and integrating ElasticSearch
08:48 magnuse         um, ok
08:47 kivilahtio      targeting to start migrating Koha to Mojolicous completely after the version upgrade on intergrating ElastiSearch
08:47 kivilahtio      I hope we can make the refactoring
08:47 kivilahtio      but we have page object test and jasmine BDD to cover our ass
08:46 kivilahtio      we aremaking a big version upgrade this summer, from 3.16 to 3.24 with over 300 own commits
08:46 kivilahtio      but we have a long way to go
08:46 kivilahtio      but every day things get a bit better
08:46 magnuse         yay
08:46 kivilahtio      it is strange considering how bad it occasionalyl is
08:46 kivilahtio      magnuse: we have a LOT of people queueing to get to Koha
08:46 kivilahtio      magnuse: we are founding the KohaSuomi Oy this summer, prolly in a couple of months
08:45 magnuse         kivilahtio: how is koha doing in finland these days? is the company up and running? are you working for it?
08:45 kivilahtio      thanks magnuse and cait, I will postpone this to a lower priority. They can hung me if they can :)
08:44 magnuse         yup
08:41 kivilahtio      but I guess there was a saying "another can of worms" :)
08:40 kivilahtio      when you do a renewal you could have a radial dialog asking to choose the type how the renewal was done, phone/"visit to library"
08:40 kivilahtio      yes
08:40 magnuse         that might be an interesting thing to track, akshuly
08:38 kivilahtio      we could store to the statistics-table how the renewal was done?
08:38 kivilahtio      cait: what do you mean?
08:37 kivilahtio      magnuse: or, try to convince the librarians to change their mind
08:37 cait            phone, opac, other... automatic.. different counters
08:37 magnuse         ...and that is why we need a new syspref, to keep the current behaviour as the default
08:37 cait            other systems differentiate renewals... but that's a whole other can of worms
08:37 kivilahtio      I jsust got 3 nagry librarians telling me that this is how we have always done it
08:36 LibraryClaire   magnuse: agree
08:36 * cait          agrees with magnuse
08:36 kivilahtio      thanks magnuse: I keep asking
08:36 magnuse         recording the branch of the librarian who does the actual work sounds perfectly right to me
08:36 kivilahtio      it sounds kinda wrong
08:36 cait            ok :)
08:35 kivilahtio      I wonder why we are doing it this way?
08:35 kivilahtio      yes
08:35 marcelr         cait: yes i saw your comment
08:35 magnuse         well, recording the branch of the currently logged in librarian who is doing the renewal sounds very logical to me
08:35 kivilahtio      renewal statistics is a reward for them for servicing other patrons
08:35 kivilahtio      maybe it is because the branch doing the renewal actualyl does manual work and the
08:34 kivilahtio      magnuse: hmm
08:34 cait            did you see my comment about the option of using Koha/Email.pm to centrlaize the change?
08:34 kivilahtio      magnuse: can you figure out a single use case where this is not a bug?
08:34 cait            i agree about the test mode bug - the changes to cart etc. seem unnecessary
08:34 kivilahtio      magnuse: true
08:34 magnuse         people might want to use OpacRenewalBranch but still keep the current functionality in the intranet
08:33 marcelr         hi cait
08:33 kivilahtio      we have too many sysprefs already
08:33 cait            marcelr: around? :)
08:33 kivilahtio      do you think there are two ways of statisticizing a renewal?
08:33 magnuse         i think it should be two different sysprefs
08:32 kivilahtio      the novelties of the community process :)
08:32 kivilahtio      if i dont refactor the syspref, there is less to maintain :)
08:32 kivilahtio      magnuse: I could refactor 'OpacRenewalBranch', but then I would have to maintaint thta change against master for 3 years
08:31 kivilahtio      magnuse: absolutely
08:31 magnuse         having a syspref called OpacRenewalBranch decide things in the intranet sounds wrong, though
08:30 wahanui         okay, kivilahtio.
08:30 kivilahtio      which is also the most maintainable
08:30 kivilahtio      shortest path is to use the same syspref in the staff client as well
08:30 kivilahtio      we just noticed thatthe renewals are stored "wrongly"
08:29 kivilahtio      I am about to code it, just asking if there is a bug on it in Bugzilla, as I couldn't find one
08:29 kivilahtio      magnuse: in staff client
08:29 kivilahtio      magnuse: we need the same feature in the staff lcient
08:29 magnuse         kivilahtio: you want to record a different branch than the one where the renewal is actually done?
08:29 kivilahtio      magnuse: yes
08:28 magnuse         "This value is used in the statistics table to help with reporting. The statistics table in Koha keeps track of all checkouts and renewals, this preference defines which branch is entered in to the table when a patron renews an item for themselves via the OPAC."
08:25 huginn          magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 4.0°C (10:20 AM CEST on April 08, 2016). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 3.0°C. Windchill: 0.0°C. Pressure: 29.24 in 990 hPa (Rising).
08:25 magnuse         @wunder boo
08:23 kivilahtio      If not is somebody working on it?
08:23 kivilahtio      We have syspref ' OpacRenewalBranch '. This works for OPAC. Is there a way to define the same rules for the staff client?
08:21 huginn          LibraryClaire: The current temperature in London City, United Kingdom is 8.0°C (8:50 AM BST on April 08, 2016). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 81%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Windchill: 7.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
08:21 LibraryClaire   @wunder LCY
08:19 LibraryClaire   mmmm pizza :D
08:18 huginn          drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 9.0°C (9:50 AM CEST on April 08, 2016). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 58%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
08:18 drojf           @wunder berlin, germany
08:18 drojf           hei magnuse
08:14 magnuse         yay!
08:14 wahanui         friday is pizzaday
08:14 magnuse         friday?
08:13 drojf           i'm my own boss, so i don't have a weekend ;)
08:13 drojf           :)
08:10 LibraryClaire   happy Friday!
08:09 drojf           hi LibraryClaire :)
08:06 LibraryClaire   hi drojf :)
08:05 drojf           morning
07:56 LibraryClaire   hey marcelr :)
07:55 marcelr         hi Joubu
07:55 marcelr         hi LibraryClaire
07:55 LibraryClaire   morning!
07:52 Joubu           hi #koha
07:46 wahanui         salut, gaetan_B
07:46 gaetan_B        hello
07:35 magnuse         http://www.dagbladet.no/tegneserie/luncharkiv/tmp/88178f7b9ec79b5c3ee978e80d20bf26.gif
07:19 * magnuse       waves
06:58 alex_a          bonjour
06:56 reiveune        hello
06:18 marcelr         hi #koha