Time  Nick            Message
06:51 reiveune        hello
06:56 drojf           morning
07:00 alex_a          bonjour
07:00 wahanui         bonjour, alex_a
07:46 LibraryClaire   morning #koha
07:59 gaetan_B        hello
07:59 wahanui         privet, gaetan_B
08:09 drojf           meeting in 2 hours?
08:11 cait            yep
08:11 cait            i might be a little late
08:11 cait            drojf: could you chair if I don't make it on time?
08:11 cait            I have another meeting at work before the koha meeting
08:16 drojf           cait: depending on UPS i have to leave the office for half an hour at an unknown time :( somebody decided to not show up as planned yesterday
08:16 cait            ah
08:16 drojf           i have no idea when this will be
08:16 cait            so i need to find a second backup :)
08:16 drojf           i can start the meeting if its not ŕight then
08:16 cait            yep please do then
08:17 cait            if i am late, it should not be by much
08:17 drojf           they also decided to not answer my email and you need to agree to 100 (!) pages of terms and services to choose a deliver date, wtf
08:17 drojf           dear kids at home, never use UPS
08:17 cait            heh
08:35 sophie_m        hello #koha
08:36 sophie_m        I have difficulties to find release notes of old releases of Koha. Is there a way to have a list of those ?
09:58 cait            here
09:58 cait            sophie_m: did you look in koha itself?
09:58 cait            sophie_m: which version are you missing?
09:58 cait            sophie_m: the major releases relese notes are all shipped in master, the in between bugfixes in the branches i think
09:59 * Oak           waves
10:00 ikourmou        hello
10:00 wahanui         bonjour, ikourmou
10:01 cait            hi ikourmou :)
10:01 cait            it's time
10:01 cait            let's get started
10:01 ikourmou        @cait: is it possible to discuss KohaCon16 a little bit later?
10:01 huginn          ikourmou: I'll give you the answer as soon as RDA is ready
10:01 sophie_m        cait : we are translating all release notes for our clients. Looking into Koha implies to checkout each release. Wouldn't it be possible to have a link on the release notes page in the wiki with the old releases ?
10:02 cait            maybe something for the meeting :)
10:02 cait            #startmeeting General IRC meeting 6 April 2016
10:02 huginn          Meeting started Wed Apr  6 10:02:49 2016 UTC.  The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
10:02 huginn          Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
10:02 huginn          The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_6_april_2016'
10:02 mveron          Hi #koha
10:02 cait            #topic Introductions
10:02 wahanui         #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
10:02 ikourmou        I have a meeting with the University Dean right now, but I also want to inform you on the Kohacon preparation progress
10:03 cait            please introduce yourself with #info, followuing wahanui's example
10:03 drojf           #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany
10:03 cait            ikourmou: if we do kohacon first, would that work for you?
10:03 mveron          #info Marc Véron, marc veron ag, Allschwil, Switzerland
10:03 drojf           hi mveron
10:03 cait            #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
10:03 LibraryClaire   #info Claire Gravely, UAL, UK
10:03 ikourmou        I would be glad if we could talk about it in an hour or so...
10:03 Oak             #info Arslan Farooq, Islamabad, Pakistan
10:03 davidnind       #info David Nind, Wellington, New Zealand
10:03 cait            ikourmou: i can push it to the end, but not sure it will last an hour this time :)
10:04 thd             #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York City
10:04 cait            mabe come back and people interested will still be around?
10:04 drojf           we can make it last an hour :P
10:04 cait            #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_6_April_2016
10:04 ikourmou        #info Giannis Kourmoulis, AUTh, Greece
10:04 ikourmou        ok, thanks. I will try to be back ASAP
10:04 cait            ok :)
10:05 cait            let's wait for 2 more minutes then move
10:05 cait            on
10:05 Oak             [off] I'll have to leave in 20 minutes :-| Please excuse me in advance.
10:06 * drojf         throws coffee at bag
10:06 cait            drojf: he won't attend - 3 am :)
10:06 drojf           more coffee!1
10:07 cait            kidclamp: #info! :)
10:07 kidclamp        #info Nick Clemens, ByWater Solutions
10:07 kidclamp        morning cait
10:07 kidclamp        and all
10:07 cait            #topic Announcements
10:07 cait            so, any announcements? :)
10:08 Oak             related to koha?
10:08 cait            yes, or anything else that fits here
10:09 cait            bag told me he thinks about having an ES bug sqash/test day
10:09 cait            so keep an eye out for that
10:09 cait            anything else?
10:09 wahanui         well, anything else is just being crap
10:10 * drojf         throws coffee at jajm
10:10 * drojf         throws coffee all around ;)
10:11 cait            aggressive germans... :)
10:11 cait            ok, moving on
10:11 drojf           nooo. coffee is love :)
10:11 cait            #topic Update on releases
10:11 cait            one sec, looking for a link
10:13 cait            #info Freeze dates for 16.05 have been set: Feature freeze - April 28th and Release on May 26
10:13 cait            #link http://lists.koha-community.org/pipermail/koha-devel/2016-March/042559.html
10:13 cait            the queues are looking ok'ish right now
10:13 cait            but there is a lot stuck in failed qa
10:13 cait            and also a lot of nice things waiting for sign-off
10:14 cait            Needs Signoff -      136,    20 bugs
10:14 cait            Failed QA - 251
10:14 cait            Patch Doesn't apply - 82
10:14 cait            GBSD went well I think - thx everyone for attending! :)
10:15 cait            anything else people woud like to add?
10:16 cait            drojf: more coffee throwing please!
10:16 cait            moving on
10:16 kidclamp        :-)
10:16 cait            #topic Hackfest in Berlin
10:16 cait            drojf: ?
10:16 Oak             white shirt here, cait!
10:17 drojf           i got ~10 registrations so far and another two or three pending (of up to ~20), which is pretty cool
10:17 cait            #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Berlin_Hackfest_2016
10:17 drojf           apart from that… we got the catmandu workshop, we might have a workshop or talk about ILL if atheia can join us
10:17 drojf           (maybe magnuse would like to tell something about the norway part too if he can attend?)
10:17 cait            #info 10 registrations so far
10:17 cait            #info catmandu workshop will happen, other workshops pending
10:18 drojf           i think that is it basically
10:18 cait            will you advertise on the german mailing list too?
10:18 drojf           yes. did not get to that yet
10:18 drojf           but i will
10:18 thd             Any plans to record informational presentations from HackFest?
10:18 cait            I sent the link to a few people - but i think we can get to 20 easily :)
10:19 drojf           i think there will be more demand than places easily
10:20 cait            is 20 a super hard limit?
10:21 drojf           no. there maybe be options for a few more, but not all in one room then
10:21 drojf           depending on the weather there is a terrace we can use and i might talk my office mates into sharing that too
10:21 cait            cool
10:21 drojf           but i would look into that once it is relevant
10:22 cait            yeha makes sense
10:22 * cait          will be attending :)
10:22 drojf           thd: you mean audio/video? that is not planned
10:22 drojf           i think we got nz, usa, italy, hopefully uk and maybe norway so far. well and germany of course
10:23 thd             drojf: Yes, I mean more or less impromptu introductions to something as tend to occur at hackfests.
10:23 cait            drojf: netherlands?
10:23 drojf           ah right, still count eythian as nz :D
10:24 cait            an incomplete list canbe found here: https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Kohacon_2016:_Who_is_arriving_when
10:24 drojf           that is very incomplete
10:24 cait            yeah, people should add themselves :)
10:25 cait            i think everyone can tell... i am very excited about this event - and also about kohacon, but we will talk about that later when ikourmou is back
10:25 drojf           thd: i do not really have equipment for that. if there are presentations (like slides and stuff) i guess that can be shared
10:25 cait            if we take any notes/draw up something that could be shared too
10:26 cait            anything else?
10:26 wahanui         somebody said anything else was just being crap
10:26 drojf           i think that is all
10:26 thd             People seldom have anything as formal as slides for hackfest introductions to some technical issues.  Anything that might ...
10:26 drojf           for now
10:27 cait            #chair drojf
10:27 huginn          Current chairs: cait drojf
10:27 thd             help with sharing useful stuff more widely would be good.
10:27 drojf           thd: if people take notes and want to make them public we can put them in the wiki
10:28 drojf           but i can't promise anything, it depends on the people taking part :)
10:28 thd             drojf: Of course ;)
10:28 drojf           i hope we got some kind of writeuo in the end to see what we have done :)
10:28 drojf           writeup
10:29 * cait          can try to help with that
10:29 drojf           so we skip kohacon 16?
10:29 cait            but maybe poke me/remind me about it
10:30 cait            i think we skip kohacon16 for now and see when ikourmou comes back
10:30 drojf           yep
10:30 cait            moving on
10:30 cait            #topic Rules for announcements to the main mailinglist
10:30 drojf           we could have done kohacon 17 ;)
10:31 drojf           anyway
10:31 drojf           my notes are gone
10:31 cait            hm?
10:31 drojf           simple question is, do we want some kind of rules for recurring announcements on the mailing list or do people not care?
10:32 cait            it seems ot have settled down a bit now
10:32 farooq          hello
10:32 wahanui         hola, farooq
10:32 drojf           personally i think its a little much on a list with not too much traffic to have announcements for an event like every five days, as it happened lately. but that was probably the only event where that ever happened
10:32 farooq          i m trying to import data.. in koha library system
10:33 cait            hi farooq - we are having an irc meeting right now - can you please come back with your question in half an hour or so?
10:33 thd             What kind of rules has anyone thought might be necessary or helpful.
10:33 drojf           and i know i am easily annoyed by such things, basically i'd like to know if others are too or if i just filter such things when they happen
10:33 cait            you can of course stay and listen in
10:33 ikourmou        I'm back
10:33 farooq          ok sure
10:33 farooq          thank you
10:33 cait            i think that case was a little annoying, but maybe don't need a rule yet
10:34 drojf           thd: something simple like "do not repeat announcements more often than every 2 weeks" or somehting like that
10:34 cait            and see if that is a repeeating thing
10:35 drojf           we are not really many people today anyway, maybe i send the question to the list instead
10:35 thd             Anyone announcing something every five days where the interval seems disproportionate might simply be sent a simple private reminder about being more polite on a fairly low traffic list.
10:35 davidnind       I tend to filter, but I think the recent example was probably a "one off" (hopefully)
10:35 kidclamp        thd +1
10:36 thd             If there has only been one incident that people can site of something without grave harm, making rules at this point would seem to be overkill.
10:36 drojf           thd: i sent a reminder and got a snarky remark
10:36 drojf           like "its different info now" which was not true
10:36 drojf           which i found even more annoying
10:36 drojf           and then they switched the person sending it
10:36 cait            ok, seems there is soem tendency to not 'rule' it for now, but also that it is in fact annoying if it happens more often?
10:37 drojf           the problem with filterin is, you miss the point where it is annoying for everyone
10:37 thd             How 'moderated' is the Koha list currently?
10:37 drojf           but i am not the list admin, so…
10:38 cait            thd: to my knowledge not moderated if you are subscribed
10:38 drojf           thd: i think "not". only mails that are not on the list are moderated, otherwise i don't remember any interference
10:39 thd             There have been triggers for moderation in the past for too many CCs.
10:39 thd             Usually examined and passed with some delay.
10:39 drojf           ok so we wait and see if it happens again and leave it for now?
10:39 cait            and back you up next time it happens
10:40 davidnind       okay with me
10:40 drojf           so, kohacon then?
10:40 thd             Even a rule for this annoying incident would need some work to achieve the intended effect if people are ignoring a polite request for politeness.
10:41 cait            #info wait and see if there are more repeated announcements, leaving it for now
10:41 cait            yes
10:41 cait            #topic KohaCon16
10:41 cait            ikourmou: please start :)
10:41 drojf           thd: if there is a rule (or at least i know there are others that think its annoying) it is easier to ask people to stop
10:41 drojf           otherwise its maybe just me ;)
10:41 ikourmou        ok, thanks for waiting for me!
10:41 ikourmou        We have just published the program
10:42 ikourmou        http://kohacon2016.lib.auth.gr/?page_id=2417
10:42 drojf           oops i think i missed the deadline for the final abstract
10:42 ikourmou        we have 170 people registered already
10:42 cait            #link http://kohacon2016.lib.auth.gr/?page_id=2417
10:43 cait            very cool, might be the biggest one so far
10:43 ikourmou        We seem to be reaching the venue limits...
10:43 drojf           how many people can get in? i thought you said ~175?
10:43 cait            you might have to account for a few people not showing up - it seems that was some factor in the past
10:43 ikourmou        and the registrations deadline is the 22nd of April
10:43 ikourmou        yes, it's about 175
10:44 drojf           will you have a wait list once its full?
10:44 davidnind       a nice "problem" to have!
10:44 cait            #info deadline for registrations i April 22nd
10:44 drojf           there will probably people cancellinhg
10:44 drojf           *be
10:45 cait            or not cancelling - from what i remember in argentina and reno some just didn't show ... so it might be ok to add a little on top
10:45 ikourmou        yes, we think that even if 200 people register, we could manage
10:45 drojf           yeah that is a problem with free events
10:45 drojf           not everyone will be in all the time
10:45 ikourmou        we don't have any particular problems on the preparation side
10:46 ikourmou        I think it goes well so far
10:46 drojf           what are your next actions?
10:46 drojf           to obvious things seem to be covered
10:46 farooq          sorry, i need some urgent solution if possible.. i m getting following error, when i try to upload .mrc file to import data in koha......... error: Upload failed -- unable to store file on server
10:46 ikourmou        We are going to update the program with abstracts and bios...
10:46 ikourmou        as soon as we have them
10:47 drojf           ikourmou: i still have to send that
10:47 drojf           will do it today
10:47 ikourmou        we are communicating with our sponsors
10:47 drojf           farooq: sorry, but we are in a meeting
10:47 ikourmou        and try to arrange coffee breaks, meals etc
10:47 cait            how is the call for sponsors going in general?
10:48 cait            did your receive enough funds for the basics yet? or is there a lot missing?
10:48 ikourmou        we will probably be able to cover the budget
10:48 cait            #info program to be updated with abstracts and bios soon
10:48 farooq          ok.. sorry for interruption... pls help me to fix it as you come back.. thank you for replying
10:49 cait            ikourmou: so things are ok?
10:49 ikourmou        and provide coffee breaks / lunch / etc for free
10:49 cait            cool
10:49 ikourmou        yes!
10:49 davidnind       great
10:49 LibraryClaire   :)
10:50 thd             For people travelling from the US, I noted some significantly lower air fares especially on KLM in the last couple of weeks which were not available previously.  [Unfortunately, while the price is reasonable for me I cannot now make the schedule commitment for travel but will work on Koha from home.]
10:50 ikourmou        is there anything that you want to point out? or comment?
10:51 cait            any ideas about the day trip yet?
10:51 ikourmou        not something particular, justo thoughts:
10:51 cait            and a general thank you to everyone involved in organizing! I
10:52 ikourmou        we could visit archaeological sites
10:53 ikourmou        or go for a day trip to the sea
10:53 ikourmou        or a combination of both
10:53 cait            :)
10:53 ikourmou        we are open to suggestions though
10:53 cait            i noticed there was no feedback mail for registration... but i think all is good anyway?
10:53 cait            with places filling up i suddenly start to worry a little :)
10:54 ikourmou        yes, we plan to do this:
10:54 ikourmou        by the end of next week we will send a mail to everyone registered...
10:54 ikourmou        with info about the program...
10:55 ikourmou        and asking people who will not be able to make it to Thessaloniki to let us know
10:55 cait            sounds good
10:55 ikourmou        It's gonna be a week before deadline
10:56 cait            #info an info email about the schedule will be send to people registered, also asking to let the organizers know if attending is not possible
10:56 ikourmou        that's all from me :-)
10:56 cait            thx ikourmou - great update
10:56 cait            any more questions?
10:56 drojf           no. but excited to go :)
10:57 LibraryClaire   looking forward to it :)
10:57 cait            yeah me too :)
10:57 cait            ok, moving on?
10:57 drojf           +1
10:58 cait            #topic KohaCon17
10:58 cait            current proposals can be found here:
10:58 cait            #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon17_Proposals
10:58 cait            currently there are 2 entries
10:59 cait            oen from the philippines and one from ireland
10:59 cait            is anyone here for the proposals?
11:00 drojf           i think we can skip the bids until we fix a voting date?
11:00 drojf           as long as there are no new ones
11:00 cait            probably
11:01 cait            we could also send another reminder as soon as a deadline has beens et
11:01 cait            set
11:01 drojf           not much going to happen before i guess
11:01 thd             Have we decided to exclude a consecutive KohaCon in the same continent?
11:01 cait            did we agree on a deadline yet?
11:02 drojf           cait: i think we did at least vaguely in some past meeting. but i don't remember what it was
11:02 cait            me neither
11:02 cait            thd: also a good question
11:03 cait            ther eis this page
11:03 cait            #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Conference_Bidding
11:04 cait            hm nothing clear there i think, more suggestion
11:04 cait            s
11:04 kidclamp        gotta run
11:05 cait            i think there was some agreement on not having the same continent for 2 years after the con was there
11:05 thd             I remember discussing a rule and maybe voting on the principle.
11:06 cait            what we coudl do is
11:06 cait            - discuss a wording
11:06 cait            - add it to vote on the next meeting
11:06 thd             Such a rule would need an exception for a case of no bids available to satisfy the rule in a particular year.
11:06 cait            true
11:06 cait            but it hink with koh agrowing that could be less and less a problem
11:07 cait            i would ike to have 2 places to pick from next vote
11:07 cait            at least
11:08 thd             I am surprised there are not more bids and more repeat bids previously unsuccessful bidders despite the work involved in hosting.
11:08 cait            well i always think it's nicer to have a vote :) but there might be cases where it won't happen
11:08 thd             s/previously/from previously/
11:09 cait            would someone volunteer to write something up for the next agenda?
11:09 cait            or how shoudl we handle this?
11:10 thd             I will try to form a coherent statement for the agenda.
11:10 cait            thx htd
11:10 cait            #action thd to add a coherent statement for the next agenda with the option to have the vote then on 'content rotation'
11:10 cait            moving on?
11:10 cait            is there someone around from the international fund?
11:11 drojf           hey
11:11 cait            hm?
11:11 drojf           i wanted to give people a small homework
11:11 drojf           regarding voting options
11:11 drojf           or that will never be started
11:11 cait            ok
11:12 drojf           there are four basic options that i tried to outline in the wiki, based on our disussion at the last vote. it would be good to move this forward slowly without using much meeting time today. so…
11:12 drojf           i propose everyone _reads_ in the wiki (link following) about the four options until next meeting and we _decide_ if we want to have seperate "maybe" and "no" options next time. that still leaves room to add more elaborated voting options if anyone feels like it, but we slowly start working on it. does that make sense?
11:12 thd             A discussion on the mailing list has not happened yet.
11:13 drojf           then reading that is a good start i guess?
11:13 thd             I may not start that discussion but I will try to find it if someone else starts the discussion.
11:13 davidnind       they look like good starting options to me, to get the ball rolling
11:14 drojf           #action everyone: homework: read the four options for counting kohacon votes at https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Processes_for_KohaCons#Counting_votes
11:14 drojf           #action everyone: make up your mind if you want to have the option to choose between "maybe" and "no" (options 2 and 4). discuss on the mailinglist before if you like
11:14 cait            i had the action all typed out...
11:14 drojf           #info we will write a test about that next time
11:14 cait            lol
11:14 drojf           i did too
11:14 drojf           :P
11:14 cait            moving on ok now?
11:14 drojf           yep
11:14 thd             Evaluation of the relative merits of voting options requires more than merely reading the options.
11:15 cait            #topic International Koha Fund - Draft Rules for THT Grants Committee
11:15 thd             Some of those options are especially vulnerable to strategic voting.
11:15 drojf           thd: anything that has to happen _before_ reading it?
11:15 cait            #info scheduled to be discussed today and voted on next meeting
11:15 cait            #link https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Fundraising
11:15 drojf           thd: if no, i would still see this as the starting point, otherwise we will do nothing
11:16 thd             drojf++
11:16 cait            I actually did my homework there and have some comments - but i can send them as an email if people want to
11:16 drojf           nobody around?
11:16 cait            doesn't seem like it :(
11:16 drojf           i think we were to discuss today and vote next meeting?
11:17 cait            yes, what i said above
11:17 drojf           i'd like to hear the comments, but we lack a discussion partner taht is involved in the process then
11:17 cait            i can be quick
11:17 cait            1e  Any one library, organisation or company (including a Listed Koha  Support Company) may have only one principal, employee or contractor  serve on the Committee at any given time.
11:17 cait            i had to look up some of the words, so i hope i understood i all right
11:18 cait            in this one i wonder about contractor
11:18 cait            because the koha support companies and libraries contract /subcontract...
11:18 cait            the definition is not clear to me
11:19 drojf           good point
11:19 wahanui         I know! The blade went right through that child!
11:19 drojf           that should probably be defined in a clear way
11:20 cait            in 3a it mentions 'proposals are invited in the current quarter' but the meetings are 'at least 2 times per year' - maybe a mismatch from a change at some point?
11:21 drojf           good catch. seems to me like a revision error too
11:21 cait            hm and in 3j is a reference to 3h that should be 3i - so that#s more of a typo
11:22 cait            i think also an error that came from adding another paragraph in between
11:22 cait            so i think the most debatable comment i have is about 'contractor' definition
11:23 cait            becuase would that mean a library and it's support company can not have a representative at the same timeß
11:23 drojf           this is how i understand it
11:23 cait            or if one company uses development from another - woudl that be a contractor etc
11:23 drojf           which means a library with several contractors could keep everyone out of it :P
11:23 cait            it might be on purpose or a bad pick as a term in the koha context :)
11:23 cait            nice trick heh
11:24 cait            does anyone want to add something?
11:24 thd             Would the conflict of interest rule against lobbying prevent people from advocating outside of deliberations for some reasonable idea?  Would some qualification of what is meant by lobbying be better?
11:24 cait            sorry, not sure i udnerstand
11:26 thd             If a particular party has an interest in some outcome in which they may have an interest and would be necessarily barred from discussion and voting  ...
11:26 cait            is that 3? Whenever a member has a financial or personal interest in any matter  coming before the Committee, the affected person shall a) fully disclose  the nature of the interest and b) withdraw from discussion, lobbying,  and voting on the matter unless a majority of disinterested members vote  that it is in the best interest of the Fund to allow it. The minutes of  meetings at which such votes are taken shall record such disclosures,  abstentions or rational
11:27 cait            i think they left an option there with the majority of disinterested members
11:27 thd             should the same party also be barred from giving information advocating the merits of the idea.
11:27 thd             Yes article 3.
11:27 cait            hm there is also 2e:
11:27 cait            2e Any member of the Committee who may receive financial benefit if a  proposal is accepted must recuse themselves from voting on that  proposal.  Furthermore, they may receive no more opportunity to advocate  for that proposal than any other proposer.
11:28 cait            maybe there is a slight mismatch there between not receiving more time than others and 'withdraw totally' ?
11:28 thd             2e clarifies.  Thank you cait. ;)
11:29 drojf           cait: thd: since nobody is available of the people in charge, would you send the concerns to the list? if we are supposed to vote in may we have to talk about it before. or do we wait for the committee to start a discussion on the list?
11:29 drojf           (which i guess won't happen)
11:30 cait            #action Koha Fund Fundraising Committee members - review full logs for discussion of the proposed document
11:30 thd             Withdraw totally should conflict with 2e.  Maybe that could be explicitly stated to not be the case in 3.
11:30 cait            drojf: i can send a link to the discussion here
11:30 drojf           excellent idea
11:31 cait            @action cait to send a link to the fundraising discussion to the list
11:31 huginn          cait: I suck
11:31 cait            #action cait to send a link to the fundraising discussion to the list
11:31 cait            i'd like to skip the next topic for today
11:31 cait            an dmove on to setting a new date
11:31 drojf           what is that?
11:31 wahanui         i think that is the bueaty of the plugins :)
11:32 drojf           the brainstorming?
11:32 cait            brainstomring about sign offs
11:32 drojf           personally, i doubt that there will ever be much brainstorming about this at the end of a general irc meeting. i propose to either move this to one of the mailing lists or form a group of people that try to come up with ideas outside of the meeting
11:32 drojf           my brain is not storming after 1,5 to 2 hours of meeting, how about yours?
11:32 cait            will you send an email to the mailing list?
11:33 cait            yeah, the meetings tend to get a little too long recently
11:33 drojf           the big one or the debv one?
11:33 cait            #topic Brainstorming about sign-offs
11:33 drojf           i'd say dev
11:33 cait            #info drojf to send an email to the mailing lists to move discussion there
11:33 drojf           i can send an email
11:33 drojf           hey i had not volunteered yet :P
11:34 cait            #info will be removed from next meeting's agenda, until someone wants to add it back for discussing some concrete ideas
11:34 cait            too late
11:34 cait            #topic Next meeting
11:34 cait            Wednesday, 4th May?
11:34 drojf           how does 4 may 2016 sound? time was 10 UTC today, would be… 20 UTC next time?
11:34 cait            +1
11:35 drojf           +1
11:35 drojf           heh
11:35 mveron          +1
11:35 davidnind       4th May sounds good (April 10:00 UTC, March 20:00 UTC, February 10:00 UTC )
11:35 cait            #agreed Next meeting will be 4 May 2016, 20 UTC
11:35 cait            thx :)
11:35 cait            thx everyone for attending!
11:35 thd             +1
11:35 cait            #endmeeting
11:35 huginn          Meeting ended Wed Apr  6 11:35:53 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
11:35 huginn          Minutes:        http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/general_irc_meeting_6_april_2016.2016-04-06-10.02.html
11:35 huginn          Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/general_irc_meeting_6_april_2016.2016-04-06-10.02.txt
11:35 huginn          Log:            http://meetings.koha-community.org/2016/general_irc_meeting_6_april_2016.2016-04-06-10.02.log.html
11:35 drojf           cait++
11:36 mveron          cait++
11:36 davidnind       cait++
11:36 LibraryClaire   cait++
11:36 thd             cait+++ # in case you do not have enough ;)
11:39 thd             #ME sleeps at last ...
11:40 * thd           sleeps at last ...
11:41 drojf           sleeping would be nice
12:26 oleonard        Hi #koha
12:27 nengard         morning oleonard
12:36 tcohen          morning!
12:36 drojf           hola other parts of the world
12:37 * LibraryClaire waves
12:38 tcohen          hi LibraryClaire drojf
12:38 tcohen          drojf: did u succeed with your LE patches?
12:41 drojf           tcohen: moving some stuff to koha-letsencrypt to make it work for new and existing installations and the renewal cronjob is pending. i wrote most of it but have not tested it
12:42 drojf           also they announced to move the client to EFF and rename it, i am not sure what to make out of that now
12:42 drojf           but they changed the limits to 20 certs per 7 days (from 5), which is pretty good for us
12:46 drojf           it better be in the next version of koha or i'll look stupid with my kohacon talk ;)
12:48 tcohen          hehe
12:48 tcohen          lets test it then!
12:49 cait            you know the deadlines - test it!
13:02 drojf           what is up on the bugtracker now can be tested now. what is missing is mostly moving stuff around, the functionality will not change drastically
13:04 oleonard        Have item search results never shown data in the 'collection' column? I've looked back through 3.18.x.
13:16 oleonard        Oh, I'm expecting "collection" to mean ccode, but it looks like it actually means biblioitems.collectiontitle. I have no idea what that is.
13:16 oleonard        A UNIMARC thing?
13:16 wahanui         a unimarc thing is probably somewhat incomplete from the look of it
13:17 cait            oleonard: might be series
13:17 cait            but mislabelled then
13:18 tcohen          drojf: I'd say my patches enabling the indexer by default are worth
13:20 tcohen          bug 16190 and bug 15113
13:20 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16190 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Enable the indexer daemon by default
13:20 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15113 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , koha-rebuild-zebra should check USE_INDEXER_DAEMON and skip if enabled
13:20 tcohen          let users rejoice Koha's capabilities that remain hidden
13:24 Joubu           tcohen: did not you notice an issue with syspref cache when upgrading yesterday or today?
13:25 Joubu           I had to restart memcached, I always got the installer
13:25 tcohen          Joubu: i didn't
13:25 tcohen          i got a couple internal server error pages
13:25 Joubu           did you upgrade?:)
13:26 tcohen          until i upgraded and restarted plack
13:33 Joubu           ha yes, the problem only appears if you execute updatedatabase.pl via the commandline
13:35 tcohen          we should exclude KOHA::Version from the cache
13:36 tcohen          Joubu: i cannot reproduce the Members.t failure on jenkins
13:36 Joubu           tcohen: I don't think it's an issue.
13:36 benjamin        tcohen/Joubu: we might have run into caching issues too regarding sysprefs
13:36 Joubu           benjamin: on master?
13:37 benjamin        on 3.22.05 the sysprefs language and opaclanguage shifted on every page reload... on 3.22.03 they didnt. Haven't tried on master
13:37 MichaelKuhn     Hello, in https://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=737 I have seen some people worked on the possibility to show the location of a book on a map of the library, but nothing has come out of it so far. Has anyone tried an individual solution?
13:37 huginn          04Bug 737: enhancement, P2, ---, magnus, NEW , Map of library in search system
13:40 Joubu           benjamin: It certainly comes from 11998. Please open a bug report and link it to 11998 if you have steps to reproduce the issue
13:42 benjamin        Joubu: I suspected that, yes. I see there are some caching patches waiting for signoff,  should I look into them as well? bug 16105 f.ex? or please tell if there are others pertinent for 3.24
13:42 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16105 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Cache::Memory is loaded even if memcache is used
13:43 Joubu           benjamin: I'd need more info to know where it could come from (plack or not, memcache or not)
13:44 Joubu           and what you meant by "shifted"
13:50 benjamin        Joubu: it certainly is 11988, which came in 3.22.5. By "shifted", I mean, with more than two languages, eg. nb-NO and en, every reload of a page shifts the language syspref from one to the other. Interesting feature ;) I will look more into it and see if is
13:50 benjamin        ...repeatable
13:52 Joubu           that's scary!
13:53 Joubu           but really I don't see how it could be possible :)
13:53 Joubu           looking forward to see the bug report
14:05 tcohen          random_behaviour++
14:06 * oleonard      balances a stapler on his head
14:07 * tcohen        jumps from one desk to the other repeatedkly
14:08 oleonard        Did I hear that there was some way to find out if a particular file is affected by pending patches?
14:08 tcohen          Joubu: what do u want to pass 14598?
14:08 tcohen          splitter
14:08 wahanui         splitter is cool
14:08 tcohen          oleonard: http://splitter.koha-community.org/
14:09 Joubu           want to? why would I want to that?
14:09 tcohen          damn idiomatic issues
14:09 tcohen          what prevents 14598 to be passed QA?
14:10 Joubu           see comments 63-65
14:10 Joubu           (same as the last 4x you asked me:p)
14:11 tcohen          Joubu: :-P
14:11 tcohen          63: ready
14:11 tcohen          64-65: you want it to read the deleted{biblio|items} tables too?
14:12 tcohen          what behaviour would you expect it the sysadmin cleaned those tables?
14:12 Joubu           It was 2 months ago, I don't remember the question so I won't understand the answer
14:12 tcohen          (you mentioned some warnings during upgrade it the items where delented)
14:12 Joubu           anyway, answer comment 64&65 and I will have a look again
14:13 Joubu           Usually I don't look at bug reports when I asked for something and did not get an answer. It's a general rule
14:13 tcohen          boo
14:30 Joubu           tcohen: with 14598 and without a global fix for 15599, all our test files will produce lot of warnings
14:30 tcohen          14598 is not tied to 15599 to me
14:31 Joubu           14598 generates the warnings
14:31 tcohen          i respect that you think so, but i dont agree, maybe kyle should've just fixed the warnings issue for 14598 only
14:32 tcohen          i went beyond that
14:32 tcohen          i'll take a look at the global problem you mention, don't worry
14:33 tcohen          right now i reproduced your warning during upgrade, and am fixing it
14:34 Joubu           iirc the warnings do not appear before 14598, so I don't understand "maybe kyle should've just fixed the warnings issue for 14598 only"
14:35 tcohen          i didn't notice the fix introduced problems on the tests, i'm on it right now
14:42 * cait          is confused but shares Joubu's rule
14:43 cait            well i try to... sometimes i get soft... or fail it to get it out of my queue :P
14:45 tcohen          we need to fix the bug, the fact that our tests create bad scenarios and need to be fixed should not block the bugfix
14:45 tcohen          i'll try to work on that, though
14:45 tcohen          i will just flood your inboxes too :-P
14:51 tcohen          Joubu: how can i test the new warnings nightmare?
14:51 tcohen          prove t/db_dependent/ ?
14:51 Joubu           t/db_dependent/Items/* I guess
14:52 Joubu           t/db_dependent/Items* even
14:52 tcohen          thanks
14:54 tcohen          Joubu: I see
14:55 tcohen          those are silent for me, but there are several others
14:55 tcohen          the problem is that tests are not correctly coded
14:56 tcohen          and I don't think there can be a global solution
15:00 reiveune        bye
15:26 oleonard        Hi pianohacker
15:28 pianohacker     hello hello
15:30 oleonard        pianohacker: Re: Your required fields question, HTML5 "required" attribute is the minimum. A JS layer is a good second layer.
15:30 oleonard        This are both IMHO, since there's no official rule.
15:31 oleonard        pianohacker: I recommend looking at the markup of admin/cities.pl?op=add_form for a simple example.
15:32 pianohacker     oleonard: okay, makes sense. Thanks. I'll throw together a quick patch to fix the EDI thing if you're not poking at it
15:33 oleonard        pianohacker: I submitted a patch yesterday with a bunch of template changes
15:33 oleonard        ...but without changes to required fields
15:33 oleonard        Bug 16206
15:33 huginn          04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=16206 minor, P5 - low, ---, oleonard, Needs Signoff , Corrections to templates related new EDI feature
15:36 pianohacker     I'll make sure it's based on that
15:38 bag             morning
15:38 oleonard        Hi bag
15:40 cait            oleonard: i noticed a lot of Edifact Messages yesterday
15:40 cait            wondering if that shoudl be EDIFACT messages?
15:42 oleonard        As far as I can tell, yes
15:42 cait            .. and with that i run away t have dinner :)
15:42 cait            have a nice evening #koha :) - will probabl be back later
15:43 oleonard        y
15:43 * oleonard      reminds himself, Focus!
15:58 * geek_cl       still fighting with Koha performance :-/
16:36 Joubu           tcohen: did you mean t/db_dependent/Members.t pass on D7??
17:05 * drojf         heads home
17:05 drojf           later #koha
18:58 oleonard        Bye #koha
20:00 cait            huh
20:00 cait            i have problems with the wiki - especially adding a new page for the next meeting
20:00 cait            does this link work? https://wiki.koha-community.org/w/index.php?title=Development_IRC_meeting_4_May_2016&action=edit
20:01 cait            hi kidclamp
20:01 kidclamp        hi cait
20:02 cait            could you try something for me?
20:02 kidclamp        sure
20:03 cait            can you try the red link on this page? https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/IRC_Meetings
20:03 cait            i have difficulties adding the page for the next agenda
20:03 kidclamp        there is currently no text in thispage
20:04 cait            can you add it? there should be en edit link
20:04 cait            i can't
20:04 cait            keeps timing out :(
20:04 kidclamp        yes
20:04 cait            weird
20:04 kidclamp        can edit
20:04 kidclamp        https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Talk:General_IRC_meting_4_May_2016
20:05 cait            still loading....
20:05 kidclamp        oh, I edited the talk
20:05 kidclamp        can;t get in to main page
20:05 kidclamp        you are right, borked
20:05 rangi           i can
20:06 kidclamp        the wiki knows better than to mess with rangi
20:06 rangi           hmm actually that feels like disk space issues
20:06 cait            so should ask gmcharlt to take a look?
20:06 rangi           yup, i forget who else has shell
20:06 gmcharlt        seems advisible
20:06 cait            hi gmcharlt :)
20:06 cait            i didn't want to summon you if it was just me
20:07 gmcharlt        disk space isn't an issue
20:07 cait            editing the old agenda worked fine, then it started when wanted to add the new page
20:10 cait            gmcharlt: on another note - lots of dicussion on the funds fundraising... proposal in today's meeting
20:19 rangi           hmm there goes my theory then
20:19 cait            still not working for me - i will wait and write the email
20:19 cait            homework from today's meeting
20:28 gmcharlt        cait: try again now
20:28 cait            onit
20:28 gmcharlt        looks like a bug in the SelectCategory extension, which I've disabled for now
20:29 ccordova        hi,  i have problem in my koha 3.22.5 this log see : http://paste.koha-community.org/398
20:29 cait            much better :)
20:29 cait            aah
20:29 cait            thx a lot for the quick help :)
20:30 gmcharlt        yw
20:31 rangi           ccordova: is the machine out of memory? id take a look at top
20:33 ccordova        rangi :  this is memory http://snag.gy/ugelu.jpg
20:35 ccordova        is very slow for search  18 seg  for search
20:35 * andreashm     waves
20:35 cait            hi andreashm :)
20:36 rangi           ccordova: hmm i'd try (on your test server) enabling plack
20:36 andreashm       hi cait
20:36 rangi           and make sure caching is switched on
20:36 rangi           also
20:36 ccordova        not plack is disabled
20:36 rangi           yes, i mean try it with plack enabled on your test server, to see if that is faster
20:37 ccordova        it's  server in production
20:37 rangi           yes
20:38 rangi           but you have a test server right?
20:39 ccordova        if I've had, but not change, only a couple of seconds less.
20:42 andreashm       I know I've asked this a bunch of times, but really - what is the difference between CCODE and LOC? Are they interchangeable or do they affect different parts of the system?
20:43 rangi           not interchangebale
20:43 * andreashm     is asking because we are having a discussion about which one to use for our locations.
20:43 rangi           well they could be, if you mess around with the marc frameworks
20:43 rangi           CCODE is collection code
20:44 rangi           you can switch to searching by it instead of itemtypes
20:44 rangi           i wouldn't use it for location, id use LOC (which is for location :))
20:45 andreashm       rangi: yes I know. but there is a library here that is using ccode for locations, and it seems to work fine.
20:45 cait            hm not only instead
20:45 cait            you can have all three to search on
20:45 andreashm       so the difference is maninly searching options?
20:45 rangi           just because you can, doesn't mean you should
20:45 rangi           :)
20:45 andreashm       hehe
20:45 cait            andreashm: what speaks against using loc for locations? :)
20:46 cait            i'd say the difference is in the display in the item mostly LOC displays below the library - if it's home or holding you can confiugre using prefs. collection has its own column
20:46 cait            you can both use for advanced search
20:46 cait            one difference i can think of is maybe that you can use collections for branch transfer limits
20:46 andreashm       cit: not sure. I'm not there to discuss. but I would guess the look on item (an own column or not)
20:47 andreashm       a, home or holdings branch setting affects loc and not ccode?
20:47 cait            hm there is a separate one
20:47 cait            sec
20:48 cait            OpacLocationBranchToDisplayShelving
20:49 cait            there is also a cart feature tied to location
20:49 andreashm       cait: oh, thanks. we're not using the opac though.
20:49 cait            ok
20:49 cait            InProcessingToShelvingCart  ReturnToShelvingCart NewItemsDefaultLocation
20:50 andreashm       thanks
20:50 cait            so maybe branch transfer limits if you use those and the cart feature would make a difference
20:51 andreashm       yes, very good to know.
20:51 cait            BranchTransferLimitsType
20:56 andreashm       anything specific for LOC similarly?
20:56 andreashm       that using ccode wouldn't do/affect?
20:57 cait            can't think of anything apart from the cart right now
20:57 cait            course reserves can change both i think
20:59 andreashm       cait: interesting, thanks.
20:59 andreashm       seems to me that they are somewhat interchangeable after all, except some minor functionality. =)
21:01 rangi           this is true
21:01 rangi           but so is pretty much every field in MARC ;)
21:01 rangi           i think putting location in the location subfield make sense .. that may be a NZ thing though :)
21:01 andreashm       depends what one means with location, I guess.
21:02 andreashm       oh, so much ambiguity
21:02 andreashm       =)
21:03 rangi           yup
21:05 pianohacker     we've seen folks use the word location to mean between 4 and 5 different things
21:05 pianohacker     occasionally within the same conversation
21:07 gmcharlt        “When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”
21:08 gmcharlt        pianohacker: I hope this clarifies things immensely ;)
21:08 pianohacker     oh, by far...
21:13 andreashm       yes, very.
21:14 andreashm       Now I got that damn Humpty Dumpty song on my head.
21:14 andreashm       thanks gmcharlt! =)
21:15 gmcharlt        andreashm: I think you just revenged yourself on me
21:15 gmcharlt        I had not been thinking of that song... BUT I AM NOW!!!
21:15 gmcharlt        :)
21:15 andreashm       haha
21:15 * cait          is glad she doesn't know the song
21:19 andreashm       cait: now go straight to youtube!
21:21 cait            nope nope nope
21:21 cait            i don't want to dream about humpty dumpty
21:25 cait            cool 135 needs sign off
21:25 cait            that's the lowest in a while i think
21:29 bag             yeah
21:30 cait            community++ :)
22:04 huginn          New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 16215: Missing closing quote in checkout template <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=22a33b7868bf1f0b312d548c5abdb642bfa72d6e>
22:14 huginn          New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 16171 - Show many media in html5media tabs <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=c2f92f68d84753d62880e17e9d1bd19c8b9bff47> / Bug 16184 - Report bor_issues_top shows incorrect number of rows <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=2c68980467009a9d19116440d4f28356707e9e7c> / Bug 16214: Fix typo 'To.jon' -> 'To.json' <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=com
23:55 huginn          New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 15928 - Show unlinked guarantor <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=e4d0363bc72403b4eea69cd7375e06ee2ecd729d> / Bug 16191: t/Ris.t is noisy <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=5b909a82693d452d233e95d7598092aa5ee14c17>