Time Nick Message 00:23 wizzyrea frankenkoha 00:23 wizzyrea best. 00:30 dcook Does anyone know if there are any problems running Koha on Debian Jessie? 00:30 dcook I remember there used to be, but unsure if they're been resolved.. 00:54 wizzyrea we have it running on jessie in a number of instances 00:54 wizzyrea and it seems to be working fine 00:54 wizzyrea have more trouble with ubuntu, tbh. 01:03 dcook Yeah? 01:04 wizzyrea yeah, things like "task scheduler doesn't work" 01:05 dcook Ahh 01:05 dcook I think I actually just found a bug in Debian :p 01:05 dcook Well, Gnome at least.. 01:06 dcook Gotta love variables like "NoDisplay=false" 01:07 dcook I guess "Display" is probably already taken... so they had to use the negative 01:08 wizzyrea I don't think I've ever used a gui on debian proper. 01:09 dcook "Main Menu" seems to create a local desktop launcher in ~/.local/share/applications which gets called ahead of /usr/share/applications/, but it doesn't seem to actually update either.. 01:09 dcook Really? 01:09 wizzyrea I don't mean that as a rude thing, only as a fact. Really. 01:09 dcook I think I've been using Debian as a desktop OS since 2013? 01:09 dcook Oh, I didn't think it was a rude thing 01:09 dcook I know Ubuntu and Mint tend to be the typical desktop choices 01:10 wizzyrea yeah, I've used both of those 01:10 wizzyrea but not debian itself. 01:11 dcook Honestly, I had thought about switching over to Ubuntu 01:11 dcook But after a botched minor upgrade on Ubuntu caused issues on my laptop, I figured I'd go for the stability of Debian on my desktop 01:12 dcook The Ubuntu thing probably wasn't that bad, but it was late and brain was a bit mushy 01:12 dcook Couldn't log in though :/ 01:12 dcook Of course, that happened while upgrading Debian, except that I actually sorted that out as it was in the morning 04:58 Amit_Gupta hi all 07:33 drojf morning 07:57 reiveune hello 08:10 cait morning #koha 08:23 gaetan_B hello 08:59 * magnuse waves 09:10 ashimema [off] /me deletes a draft mail to paul a, would just make me look bad, and he wouldn't pay a blind bit of notice anyway. 09:10 cait [off] I disagree about the ifrst bit, but you are probably right about the second 09:19 Joubu morning 09:20 cait morning Joubu 09:53 LibraryClaire morning #koha 09:55 cait morning LibraryClaire :) 09:55 LibraryClaire hi cait :) 09:56 magnuse hiya LibraryClaire 09:57 * LibraryClaire waves 10:04 * magnuse translates 12:31 cait Joubu++ 12:31 cait taking care of the bad bugs 12:49 oleonard Hi #koha 12:50 LibraryClaire hi oleonard 13:01 cait really quiet here currently, you can feel the holidays are close :) 13:02 LibraryClaire 1.5 more days left :)) 13:05 oleonard It's not the holidays, it's everyone staying offline to avoid Star Wars spoilers. 13:06 LibraryClaire haha 13:06 LibraryClaire I saw it Friday, am now safe 13:08 cait :) 13:08 cait just one question: do i want to see the new movie? i love the old 3 movies... the new ones not so much 13:09 oleonard cait: In my opinion you do want to see the new movie. 13:10 LibraryClaire yes 13:10 cait I will trust you :) 13:10 LibraryClaire I would be quite happy to see it again 13:15 * ashimema wants to see it.. 13:15 * ashimema doubts he's going to have a child free moment to get out and see it any time soon. 13:16 * ashimema has just been catching up on the perl advent calendar.. 13:16 ashimema why have I never used Smart::Comments.. 13:16 ashimema and 'ooh, signatures.. shiny' come to mind :) 13:16 oleonard The "Your suggestions for a new name of Koha NA" thread is really embarrassing. 13:17 cait ashimema: link? :) 13:17 * cait sends oleonard cookies 13:17 ashimema http://www.perladvent.org/2015/ 13:17 cait thx ashimema :) 13:17 ashimema http://www.perladvent.org/2015/2015-12-11.html 13:17 ashimema and 13:17 ashimema http://www.perladvent.org/2015/2015-12-21.html 13:18 ashimema are of particular insterest for those two comments ;) 13:18 ashimema but allot of the articles of interesting 13:19 ashimema so little 'stuff' out there actually specifies a perl version though.. so if your relying on cpan modules your unlikely to be able to use allot of 'features' :( 13:20 ashimema even mojolicious is fairly pinned at a supported perl version from days past.. they're love to use signatures but can't really without upsetting allot of their downstream ecosystem. 13:31 * druthb finds the "new name" thread, and gets out the popcorn. 13:31 cait the last one from mirko is... going to be interestng 13:32 LibraryClaire hah 13:33 tcohen morning 13:33 tcohen morning 13:37 drojf hi 13:37 cait drojf: not sure if that was brave or not ;) 13:37 drojf ? 13:38 cait your last email :) 13:38 drojf what exactly? 13:38 drojf ah. oh haha 13:38 oleonard drojf++ 13:38 drojf [off] i did not end up proposing kohamurrfy for koha murrica fuck yeah, so it was not brave :P 13:38 druthb [off] LOL 13:39 drojf but seriously, it's hard to understand from the outside 13:40 drojf [off] i was wondering if i don't want a koha user group berlin, but call it koha user group germany instead. but then, why not call it koha user group europe. no, koha user group eurasia. heh 13:41 drojf [off] if i fall asleep in the train, eythian has got to pick me up in amsterdam 13:43 cait travelling today? 13:44 drojf yup 13:44 cait do i have to worry? :P 13:45 drojf huh? 13:46 cait just joking, travelling because of the holidays? 13:49 drojf [off] yes. after i take over a few of your libraries :D 13:50 cait hmpf :P 13:54 * druthb hmpfs at drojf too 13:55 drojf come on, group hmpfing against a single person is not fair 13:56 liw hmpfs is not a filesystem I have heard of 13:57 druthb You earned extra hmpfs, drojf. 13:57 drojf why? what did i do? :( 13:58 druthb Don't mess with the cait! :P 14:00 magnuse ashimema: mtj was keen to use Smart::Comments a while back, i think. "grep -rn "Smart::Comments" *" gives you 8 results, all commented out 14:00 magnuse (in koha, that is) 14:06 magnuse hmpfs himself into translating those last 560 words 14:21 tcohen we should re-design our XSLTs for the UI, so people can actually take advantage of xslt capabilities 14:22 Cybermon hello 14:24 oleonard Man, Koha really is crap at limiting holds by item type. We shouldn't even pretend it's possible. 14:27 magnuse \o/ translation of 3.22 done! (at least the parts i care about) 14:29 tcohen how is it possible that we make people maintain their own xslt forkto just tweak some fields? 14:31 Cybermon i have problem for fine. not changed 0 of my fine grace. 14:33 eythian @later tell drojf you're offline, I can only assume you've crossed borders and don't have roaming on. Will see you at Centraal! 14:33 huginn eythian: The operation succeeded. 14:34 magnuse @later tell ashimema see also bug 7218 14:34 huginn magnuse: The operation succeeded. 14:34 ashimema :) 14:34 cait oleonard++ 14:36 Joubu ashimema: with a good/used logger, we don't need Smart::Comments 14:36 cait eythian: lol 14:36 ashimema I wasn't really advocating it for Koha ;) 14:36 ashimema more liking the look of it for my own uses ;) 14:36 ashimema mostly.. 'it looks like a good tool for deciphering what some other persons scripts are doing' in the future ;) 14:36 cait tcohen: we DO maintain our own little fork ;) 14:37 cait so i'd say very likely - as we try to avoid customizations quite strictly usually 14:37 ashimema ashamedly.. most of us do cait 14:37 * ashimema needs more tea 14:37 oleonard Oh I guess I should be specific: Koha is crap at limiting holds by item-level item type. 14:38 tcohen yes, but what is the point of having a stylesheet-like tool, and not take advantage of it? 14:38 * ashimema just got a sneaky peak at tomorrows advent entry.. tis all about Mojo::UserAgent :) 14:38 tcohen we could have templates for each thing we show, and let the users "overrride" only that template 14:38 oleonard Not thrilled about this message, either: "Owen Leonard can only place a maximum of total holds." I think somebody a number there. 14:38 tcohen or even add new ones 14:38 cait oleonard: hm strange - i think it does work to some extend 14:39 Cybermon any bugs related circulation of librarian for koha 3.22. when we make circulation, error Koha Session Time Out, when we make circulation by super librarian. it works. 14:39 eythian oleonard: that thread is ridiculous/entertaining. Half the people replying aren't listening to the other half at all. 14:39 cait oleonard: but we are mostly only using the 'no holds allowed' option 14:39 cait tcohen: i totally agree 14:39 eythian Rilarious must be the word 14:40 cait Cybermon: hm did you flush your cache/cookies after the update? 14:40 cait i have seen some weird things happening with old cookies 14:40 oleonard eythian: It's a curious mix of jokey answers and accusations of racism :| 14:41 Cybermon @cait. Thanks. Let me try it. other problem is not showing patron photo too. only works for super librarian 14:41 huginn Cybermon: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready 14:41 cait Cybermon: for that i'd check the permissions and pref - just to make sure 14:42 Cybermon @huginn thanks, I wanna know the RDA too 14:42 huginn Cybermon: I'll give you the answer just as soon as RDA is ready 14:42 oleonard What did Bug 12632 do, if not enable hold limits for items with item level itemtypes? 14:42 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12632 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Pushed to Stable , Hold limits ignored for record level holds with item level itemtypes 14:42 cait oleonard: i think i am thinking of a different setting - was thining about the holds rules on the circulation condition page 14:43 Cybermon @cait, which permissions and pref. 14:43 huginn Cybermon: I suck 14:43 cait oleonard: i think actually kyle's patch is about using the record level itemtype for tte maxreserves setting 14:44 cait checking 14:44 cait patronimages system preference 14:44 oleonard cait: That's not how it looks based on the test plan. 14:45 cait batch_upload_patron_images permission 14:45 oleonard Cybermon: You don't need to put @ in front of names. It confuses huginn the bot. 14:45 Cybermon cait. thanks. let me try it. 14:45 Cybermon okay oleonard 14:46 cait oleonard: maybe the difference is in the type of hold? record level = record itemtype, item level - item itype? 14:48 oleonard khall around? 14:49 Cybermon my circulation fine is not working always with 0. any things to remind to configure, 14:50 cait Cybermon: what ddo you mean by circulation fine and where have you configured it? 14:52 Cybermon yes. I have circulation rule for Defining circulation and fine rules for all libraries. 15:02 cait did you change the finesmode preference, Cybermon? 15:04 Cybermon I am planning it on tomorrow. 15:07 Cybermon before do it, i would like clarify that we have about 300 cost for each book of home loan per day, fine amount is about 1000 for each book per day after when finished date of home loan period. 15:08 cait the rental fne is a one time fine 15:08 cait only on checkout and for renewal, not per day 15:09 cait so there is only a one time fee before the book gets overdue, then you can charge daily 15:09 Cybermon yes rental fine is one time. depending how many days. 3 days = 900 for each book. etc 15:12 Cybermon cait, would you mind to send your email contact ? 15:12 oleonard Cybermon: It's not polite to ask to contact someone here directly, since everyone is a volunteer. 15:13 Cybermon sorry oleonard 15:13 cait yes, sorry, i can only help here if time permits 15:14 cait you canalso ask questions on the mailnig list of course 15:14 Cybermon sure. 15:15 Cybermon thanks again your help. Cait 15:15 Cybermon and time too 15:16 Cybermon actually, I guess that we are in time differences, that is why asked contact here. anyway. 15:24 Cybermon bye all, see you 15:32 * cait stares at a list of relator codes and sighs 16:18 reiveune bye 17:06 bora Hello 17:06 bora i am look for help on koha upgrad version 17:07 bora i want to upgrad my current version 3.14 to 3.22 17:07 bora anyone can help please 17:07 bora ? 17:08 bora hello 17:08 bora can u help me please 17:08 bora ? 17:09 * ashimema is clocking off now.. bad timing bora 17:10 kidclamp hi bora, what kind of install is your current version? 17:10 bora 3.12 i am look to update to version 3.22 17:12 bora i want o update from koha version 3.12 to 3.22 17:12 bora kidclamp a you there ? 17:12 kidclamp do you know how the system was originally installed? 17:13 bora i install on debian os 17:13 kidclamp installed using the debian packages or from source? 17:14 bora i add koha source to debian 17:14 bora on /etc/apt/deb http://debian.koha-community.org/koha stable main 17:15 bora i have add this to etc/apt/sources.list 17:15 kidclamp sounds like a package install 17:15 kidclamp http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_ubuntu_-_packages#Upgrade_Instructions 17:16 kidclamp if oyu are running in production I would ensure you have backups etc 17:16 bora this is for ubuntu 17:16 bora but i am install on debain 17:16 bora yes, that is package install on debian 17:16 kidclamp the method should be the same 17:16 bora do this methos for ubuntu work with debian ? 17:18 bora sorry have u try this and its work for u ? 17:21 kidclamp not in a production environment, not a sysadmin :-) 17:21 kidclamp the procedure is very basic, and everything "should" go smoothly 17:21 kidclamp but if you are unsure of what you are doing you might want to find someone who can help fully in case of any problem 17:22 bora ok 17:22 bora thank kidclamp 17:23 bora its could be nice if i can keep in touch with you on google plus 17:28 kidclamp bora I don't really use it, but you can often find me here 17:28 kidclamp the listservs are another good place for questions as you don't have to rely on catching the right time 17:28 kidclamp lists? 17:28 kidclamp listservs? 17:29 kidclamp https://koha-community.org/support/koha-mailing-lists/ 17:30 bora ok 17:30 bora thank 17:45 oleonard Now we're into the "Why should this group be the way it is?" phase of the KohaNA-renaming thread. Because the people who showed up to the meetings said so? 18:22 Joubu bye #koha 19:04 gaetan_B bye 20:13 wizzyrea hi oleonard :D 20:14 oleonard Hi wizzyrea 20:15 eythian hi wizzyrea 20:16 wizzyrea heya :D 20:21 oleonard And bye wizzyrea (and all) :D 20:21 wizzyrea Star wars! Spoilers! OMGZORS. 20:21 wizzyrea bye oleonard! 20:21 wizzyrea he's so fast on that quit button. 22:00 francesca Hi 22:02 wizzyrea hi francesca 22:03 * cait1 waves 22:05 eythian hi cait1 22:05 cait1 hello 22:29 * dcook waves 22:54 wizzyrea hi dcook 22:54 eythian https://blog.kallisti.net.nz/2015/12/arcam-architecture-centrum-amsterdam/ <-- I started a sort of project 22:55 dcook heya wizzyrea 22:55 wizzyrea \o/ projects! 22:55 wizzyrea catchy name 22:55 dcook hehe 22:56 dcook I like that it's in alphabetical order 22:56 wizzyrea same 22:59 eythian secretly, it just makes it easier to keep track of :) 23:00 dcook How many museums are there? 23:00 * wizzyrea blames the librarian blood 23:00 dcook Ah, there's a list 23:00 * dcook should really see more of Sydney one day 23:00 wizzyrea I have a few more wellington ones to see 23:00 grharry Hello Koha! 23:01 eythian dcook: yeah, I just pasted all the 'a' ones into a todo list, and tick them off as I go. Then the 'b's, and so forth 23:01 wizzyrea ^.^ 23:01 eythian wizzyrea: it's because I was rubbish at doing the wellington ones that I'm doing this :) 23:02 wizzyrea I really want to get over to the katherine mansfield house. It just never seems to happen. 23:04 grharry I am running v 3.22 and I notice that OAI services are really really slowwwww !!!! 23:05 wizzyrea hmm 23:05 grharry I came up to the conclusion that the SQL query is to blame ! 23:05 grharry that consists of 23:05 grharry 3 joins 23:06 grharry and a UNION 23:06 grharry and lots of DATE(timestamp) functions 23:07 grharry I have no idea how to find out where and what to optimize 23:07 eythian grharry: it's a good chance to learn the 'explain' mysql command :) 23:07 grharry since I am not aware of any profiler mysql tool 23:07 eythian maybe there's a missing index or something 23:08 grharry eythian: So far all indexes seem to be ok 23:08 eythian explain will tell you in graphic details what's going on 23:09 cait1 grharry: hm possible it has to do with the new deleted records support? 23:09 cait1 that would explain the join 23:09 cait1 probably on deleted* ? 23:09 grharry I tried the queries 23:09 grharry without the deleted records 23:10 grharry I am sure that the DATE(timestamp) and timestamp 23:10 grharry and comparisons in the where clause 23:10 grharry SLOW things down a lot ! 23:11 grharry this is a killer NO 1 "WHERE timestamp >= '1970-01-01 00:00:00' AND timestamp <= '2015-12-21 23:59:59'" 23:11 eythian is there an index on the timestamp column? 23:11 dcook ^ 23:11 grharry killer NO 2 "WHERE DATE(timestamp) >= '1970-01-01T00:00:00Z' AND DATE(timestamp) <= '2015-12-21T23:59:59Z' " 23:11 grharry YES 23:11 grharry there are indexes 23:12 grharry show create table .... 23:12 eythian are they being used? 23:12 dcook Explain would probably show that 23:12 dcook At least explain analyze would in postgres.. 23:12 grharry hm ... 23:12 grharry I have no idea if they are used 23:12 grharry :( 23:13 dcook Might be useful: http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.5/en/using-explain.html 23:14 cait1 hm that doesn#t seem to make sense 23:14 cait1 why compare a date to a timestamp? 23:14 dcook True true 23:14 dcook It's probably just passing it in straight 23:14 dcook Even though Koha only supports date granularity for OAI 23:15 cait1 hm should refomat to database format and then compare i guess? 23:15 * dcook thinks the timestamp/date/granularity thing should be revisited at some point, but he doesn't have time for it these days 23:15 * eythian goes to bed. later all! 23:16 grharry ok explain says indexes are used 23:16 wizzyrea sleep well :) 23:16 grharry GN 23:16 grharry :) 23:16 dcook night eythian 23:17 dcook In terms of speed, it also depends on database size 23:17 grharry cait1: changing DATE(timestamp) to timestamp .... does not improve a lot 23:17 dcook If you have 1 million records between those dates, it's probably going to take a while 23:18 cait1 grharry: maybe date to date would... but still makes no sense the way it is :) 23:18 grharry dcook: the problem is that it takes always "a while " to fetch 50 by 50 records 23:19 grharry cait1: I don't disagree! I think the whole approach logic 23:19 grharry requires some re-evaluation! 23:19 dcook grharry: What's "a while"? 23:20 grharry 1 min 23:20 dcook Hmm.. 23:20 grharry for every 50 recs 23:20 grharry for a 500.000 recs 23:20 grharry it's 50000 mins 23:21 dcook Hmm, I just got 50 records from a different OAI-PMH server in 6 seconds, so I can understand 60 seconds being a while :p 23:21 dcook Although that server probably has way better servers than you do 23:21 dcook Err 23:21 dcook That server is probably much nicer :p 23:22 dcook grharry: In theory, the first harvest should always be the worst 23:22 grharry 833 hours !!!! no way 23:22 grharry v3.20.3 was a lot faster 23:22 dcook Good point 23:23 dcook I think on 3.8 or 3.10 I harvested about 70,000 records in 8 hours or so 23:23 dcook So 28800 seconds 23:24 dcook Actually, that wasn't just downloading. That was everything.. 23:24 dcook So probably much faster than that 23:24 grharry there is always a "but" 23:24 dcook Well, you could compare v3.20.3 with v3.22 23:24 grharry 3.20.xx did not offer items support 23:24 grharry I think 23:24 dcook Probably 23:24 dcook I can't remember when that came about 23:25 dcook That would also slow it down 23:25 grharry yes 23:25 dcook Probably significantly 23:25 dcook Are you using items as well? 23:25 grharry I tested both 23:25 grharry Both are not acceptable !!! 23:26 grharry Confused !!! :| 23:29 grharry 51 rows in set, 3 warnings (58.00 sec) 23:29 dcook 3 warnings? I assume that has to do with the timestamps 23:29 alex_ 0 23:29 alex_ down vote 23:29 alex_ favorite 23:29 alex_ 23:29 alex_ I am trying to clone and set up my kohadevbox on my Ubuntu VirtualBox. But after writing in 'vagrant up' to start a new dev box I get the error: 23:29 alex_ "The box you're adding has a name different from the name you requested. For boxes with metadata, you cannot override the name. If you're adding a box using vagrant box add, don't specify the --name parameter. If the box is being added via a Vagrantfile, change the config.vm.box value to match the name below. Requested name: chef/debian-7.8 Actual name: bento/debian-7.8 " 23:29 alex_ My research online suggested that I needed to change the vagrantfile from chef/debian-7.8 to bento/debian-7.8 When I did this I found that I got another error message saying: 23:29 alex_ "The SSH command responded with a non-zero exit status. Vagrant assumes that this means the command failed. The output for this command should be in the log above. Please read the output to determine what went wrong." But when I search localhost:8080 in my web browser I get the Koha OPAC interface appearing. So is it correct to change chef/debian-7.8 to bento/debian-7.8 in the vagrantfile? 23:29 dcook grharry: Well, you have options. You can file a bug report, you can work on a fix yourself, you can pay someone to try to fix it for you. 23:30 grharry You can file a bug report = :) 23:30 dcook Excuse me? 23:31 dcook http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/ 23:31 grharry Very slow there too! :) 23:31 dcook O_o 23:32 grharry any way 23:33 wizzyrea alex_: that message doesn't seem to have any functional consequences 23:33 wizzyrea vagrant ssh still works. 23:33 grharry thanks for u help! 23:33 dcook No worries. I hope you're able to find a solution. 23:34 cait sorry... laptop died 23:34 wizzyrea ^.^ it happens 23:35 dcook grharry: For what it's worth, I doubt I'll be looking into that issue any time soon, as I probably won't be using anything newer than 3.20.x for a while 23:35 dcook But there might be other people out there who will 23:35 cait filing a bug is always good 23:35 dcook So if you report it on Bugzilla, or on one of the Koha listservs, it opens up a discussion with others 23:36 dcook Versus the people who just happen to be on IRC when you are online as well ;) 23:36 dcook This is probably one of the least busy times of day I think? 23:36 grharry timestamp is a problem here 23:36 dcook Write it in the bug report for sure then :) 23:37 grharry first part of query SELECT biblioitems.biblionumber, biblioitems.timestamp, marcxml FROM biblioitems JOIN oai_sets_biblios ON biblioitems.biblionumber = oai_sets_biblios.biblionumber LIMIT 51 OFFSET 0 23:37 grharry 0 secs 23:37 grharry but no timestamp 23:37 dcook I keep finding I'm using Karen Etheridge's modules... just learned that she lives in Vancouver. That's pretty cool.. 23:37 grharry I think it's a mysql usage issue 23:37 grharry and a matter of a really bad query 23:38 grharry I am talking about really really bad sql 23:38 dcook Please feel free to fix it :) 23:38 grharry I am not a MySQL expert 23:38 wizzyrea yep, you get your name in the history if you fix a thing. 23:38 grharry :) 23:39 grharry I sell it to some people too !! :) 23:39 wizzyrea I bet you're more of an expert than you realise. 23:39 wizzyrea give it a go, it might be great. 23:39 grharry No I am not 23:39 grharry I used to be good with ORACLE 23:39 grharry but mysql 23:39 grharry no 23:40 wizzyrea *shrug* as you say 23:40 grharry I dont think mysql is a real database !! 23:40 grharry :) 23:40 dcook ... 23:40 * rangi grins 23:40 wizzyrea well that's all fair, we don't think oracle is a real one. 23:40 rangi exactly 23:40 grharry yep ... sybase is better ? 23:41 * wizzyrea checks the license on koha 23:41 rangi sybase is dead 23:41 wizzyrea yep, still gpl. 23:41 rangi ive had to admin sybase and oracle dbs 23:41 rangi they need way too much care and attention 23:42 wizzyrea they make the plastic baby cry a lot. 23:42 rangi postgres .. i'll give you that one :) 23:42 rangi having said all that 23:43 rangi what you are looking for is explain 23:44 rangi explain query 23:44 rangi will tell you how it is being evaluated 23:44 rangi oh dcook already told you 23:44 rangi if you see writing to tempfile 23:44 rangi or all 23:45 rangi or anything like that, thats a really big hint 23:45 * rangi goes to lunch