Time Nick Message 06:41 * magnuse waves 07:42 reiveune hello 07:51 * Francesca waves 07:54 alex_a bonjour 08:12 gaetan_B hello 08:12 wahanui hola, gaetan_B 08:36 magnuse @wunder boo 08:36 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 3.0°C (9:20 AM CET on December 08, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 70%. Dew Point: -2.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Falling). 08:37 magnuse @wunder thessaloniki 08:37 huginn` magnuse: The current temperature in Thessaloniki, Greece is 9.0°C (10:20 AM EET on December 08, 2015). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 30.54 in 1034 hPa (Steady). 08:38 liw @wunder torrevieja 08:38 huginn` liw: The current temperature in Acequion, Torrevieja, Spain is 13.4°C (9:38 AM CET on December 08, 2015). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 87%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.48 in 1032 hPa (Steady). 08:39 ashimema @wunder stevenage, uk 08:39 huginn` ashimema: The current temperature in Stevenage, England, Stevenage, United Kingdom is 12.4°C (8:39 AM GMT on December 08, 2015). Conditions: Rain. Humidity: 89%. Dew Point: 11.0°C. Pressure: 30.06 in 1018 hPa (Steady). 09:14 Joubu hi 09:35 * cait waves 09:39 * ashimema ponders 09:42 * magnuse becomes curious 09:44 cait ? 09:44 cait ok, now i am curious too 09:44 ashimema lol.. 09:44 ashimema was only adding to the /me's 09:44 * cait waves at Viktor 09:45 * Viktor waves back at cait 09:45 ashimema I happen to be pondering deployment options for one of my mojolicious apps.. 09:45 ashimema moving from development to deployment is proving an interesting challenge to work out ;) 09:45 ashimema TIMTOWTDI is sometimes a bloody nightmare ;) 09:47 * ashimema enjoyed meeting lots of ptfs-europe customers last week.. 09:48 * ashimema is slightly disappointed not to see any (that a recognise) loitering in here yet :( 09:59 ashimema hehe.. indeed liw 10:00 ashimema I actually attempting to avoid being relying on the package system for this project.. 10:00 ashimema I'm relying heavily on Mojolicious and a few other CPAN modules which are fast moving and I don't really want the overhead of having to maintain lots of my own .debs 10:01 ashimema so currently battling with how to do it.. the non-deb way 10:04 liw I'd have my CD build a .deb of the CPAN modules, unless the modules turn out to be a lot of work to package. Usually CPAN modules are nearly automatable for Debian packaging and the manual work is at the initial packaging. And for packages that don't need to be uploaded to Debian, it's even easier. 10:04 liw but like I said, I'm a little bit opinionated about this 10:17 * magnuse goes for a walk 10:39 drojf hi #koha 11:33 Joubu Any datetime/timezone exports around? 11:34 Joubu I am trying to introduce DateTime::Tiny (cc ashimema) to Koha::DateUtils 11:34 ashimema coolios :) 11:34 Joubu And I am wondering if it could cause any side effects 11:35 Joubu the thing is that C4::Context->tz returns the "local" tz 11:35 ashimema that's a 'big' question.. 11:35 ashimema I have no idea 11:35 Joubu what happens if a server hosts several Koha installs used in different tz? 11:35 drojf "local" server or "local" client? 11:35 Joubu drojf: local server 11:36 drojf hm. have a tz-per-instance-setting and do a conversion from local? 11:37 ashimema perhaps some background is in order.. 11:37 ashimema We do 'allot' of DateTime instantiation, which is expensive (especially in loops) 11:38 Joubu http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/DateTime-TimeZone-1.94/lib/DateTime/TimeZone.pm#DateTime::TimeZone-%3Enew%28_name_=%3E_$tz_name_%29 11:38 Joubu We are using $context->{tz} = DateTime::TimeZone->new(name => 'local') 11:38 Joubu from the doc: "If the "name" parameter is "local", then the module attempts to determine the local time zone for the system." 11:38 ashimema So the idea is to use DateTime::Tiny, which negates a bunch of the cost of instantiating full DateTime objects.. But to negate these costs it a) doesn't care about locale, and b) doesn't do the datetime maths.. instead it upgrades to DateTime objects when it needs to for that. 11:39 ashimema that right isn't it joubu.. 11:39 Joubu That's the idea 11:39 Joubu but I am not sure about the consequence 11:39 Joubu because of the *bip* timezones 11:39 ashimema so.. we don't really get any win if we add locale conversions everywhere... as we just end up getting the overhead of DateTime back. 11:40 cait bip? 11:40 wahanui i heard bip was pretty useful too :-) 11:40 cait oh 11:40 ashimema So.. I 'think' we need to only convert timezones right at the end where we actually need them 11:40 ashimema how we do that.. i dunno. 11:40 cait i think it's currently not possible to run instances in multple timezones 11:40 cait at least to my knowledge 11:40 cait so maybe changing that to a setting woudl be even a welcome change? 11:41 Joubu It seems that it's not possible to run an instance for a different timezone 11:41 Joubu that could be problematic actually 11:41 ashimema I'm not qualified to answer really.. I don't know enough of how our dates are handled throughout the app 11:41 Joubu and it will be hard to reverse the change if we decide to switch to "no timezone" (i.e. local) 11:41 cait it seems pretty unflexible quite now - so nto sure what the problem woudl be:) 11:42 ashimema time is hard ;) 11:42 Joubu it could be quite easy to make it works with the actual code 11:42 cait i thougth right now - servertime = kohatime tz - that not right? 11:42 Joubu I'd say just change C4::Context->tz to return C4::Context->pref("my_specific_tz") 11:43 ashimema OK.. new question.. have we actually profiled to find where DateTime's are cuasing us issues? 11:43 Joubu cait: yes that's how it works currently 11:43 ashimema performance wise that is ;) 11:44 drojf not that i know of, but if we have, i'd be interested to see it :) 11:44 Joubu a very useful benchmaks I have just did: for 1..1000 instanciate DateTime->now or DateTime::Tiny->now 11:44 Joubu it's 0.1s vs 0.7s 11:44 Joubu but we don't instanciate 1000 objects :) 11:45 Joubu well, it's 10.000 actually, not 1.000 11:45 drojf how many do we instantiate? ;) 11:45 cait sorry, lunch! bbl 11:45 Joubu I hope much more less than that :) 11:45 drojf which would mean the difference is probably not relevant enough to change a lot in the code? :P 11:46 Joubu it's 700% : 11:46 Joubu :) 11:46 ashimema that's why I wan't to see a profile of koha's use of datetime.. 11:46 ashimema I think some wires are getting crossed here.. 11:47 ashimema DateTime -> DateTime::Tiny is a big win.. IF your doing allot of 'needless' instantiation 11:47 ashimema so.. it's more about our algorithms than about just making a switch. 11:47 ashimema for example.. 11:48 ashimema if there are cases where we do: while ( $result->next ) { $date = DateTime->new }; 11:48 ashimema and.. we're not doing a date comparison inside the loop.. 11:48 ashimema and that loop has 1000 iterations.. 11:49 ashimema then the DateTime cost is very noticeable (api response may be along the lines of 7seconds vs 1second) which starts to add up fast. 11:49 Joubu the one I know is Koha::Calendar->is_holiday 11:49 Joubu because of ->exception_holidays 11:50 Joubu foreach row in special_holidays DB table, instanciate a DT object 11:50 ashimema do we know any averages of how many holidays are generally in that table.. 11:51 ashimema ball park wise.. I'd say anything upto around 100 is likely acceptable... unless we're double looping or something silly like that? 11:51 Joubu It's a "known" issue, so people should purge this table (there is a script to do that) 11:51 ashimema known issue.. 11:52 Joubu yes, by me 11:52 Joubu (:D) 11:52 ashimema I suppose the table can easily grow with time.. 11:52 drojf brb 11:52 ashimema in this case.. can the db query be used to good measure to reduce the scope of the loop.. 11:53 ashimema i.e. datetime in future (negating the old hang around dates? 11:53 * ashimema really wants to sit down and profile the *bip* out of koha ;) 11:53 Joubu bug 15240 is impacted by is_holiday 11:53 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15240 critical, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Performance issue running overdue_notices.pl 11:54 Joubu ashimema: that's not my original question :) I don't want to fix a specific method 11:54 ashimema that script is horrid.. it runs for over 36 hours on one of our systems 11:55 ashimema I'ts in my 'to profile' pile'' 11:55 ashimema though jsut reading the code I can imediately spot some coding that scares me. 11:55 ashimema I think there's atl elast a 7 level nested set of loops in there.. 11:55 ashimema and db data isn't being prefetched either 11:55 ashimema so it can trigger in a hundreds of thausands of db hits for a large db. 11:56 ashimema 1+n*n*n*n or somthing like that.. 11:56 Joubu So the question is : should we use DT::Tiny and improve the execution time (don't know the ratio will could win) and remove the ability that a server could run several Koha instances from differents TZ or keep this possible feature (which is not implemented yet)? 12:02 * ashimema reading the code to answer that 12:06 ashimema hmm.. 12:07 ashimema So.. do we instantiate that list of datetime object every time we call is_holiday? 12:07 ashimema feels ripe for caching to me.. 12:07 ashimema and I 'think' caching may be the easier route to goal rather than introducing DateTime::Tiny 12:08 ashimema also.. I can't entirely see where the ->contains method is.. 12:08 ashimema is that part of DateTime::Set 12:08 ashimema yup 12:08 Joubu yes 12:10 ashimema I have doubts that DateTime::Tiny and DateTime::Set would play nicely together.. 12:10 ashimema but tha'ts an untested hypophesis 12:11 ashimema In this case.. I would.. cache the DateTime::Set so we're not instantiating it every time. 12:11 ashimema that will win on the instantiation problem at least. 12:11 ashimema though I believe ->contains does a DateTime comparison which is still expensive.. but nothing in comparison to the instantiation in the first place.. 12:12 ashimema it really needs profiling.. 12:13 ashimema run the overdues script with NYTProf.. i've learnt the hard way countless times that just reading the code usually yields me expsnding loads of time fixing a problem that never existed and is infact somewhere else entirely. 12:14 ashimema as overdues.pl runs in one process in one hit.. caching would be super simple I think.. If I were in mojo i'd throw it in a Mojo::Cache (i.e just thwack it into memory, and let it go out of scope once the script run completes) 12:14 ashimema profile it :) 12:14 ashimema and stick the results up somewhere :) 12:14 ashimema I was intending on doing it some time soon myself.. but if you can beat me to it.. all the better.. 12:15 ashimema we have a customer for whome it currently take 36 hours for this script to run.. so it's close to my heart ;) 12:15 Joubu we are instanciating 470 DT objects for a checkout 12:15 ashimema are we comparing those dates to anything? 12:16 ashimema I bet we are.. and if we are then dateTime::Tiny will be upgrading to DateTime anyways I think.. 12:16 ashimema unless I'm remembering the module wrong 12:17 ashimema (of course.. to compare we could stringify both ends and compare strings instead of DateTime objects) 12:19 ashimema 470 'per checkout'.. 12:19 ashimema that's crazy.. what on earth are we doing with them all 12:19 ashimema is that the is_holiday stuff.. 12:19 ashimema **** me 12:24 drojf we really need to get all the weird loop stuff fixed. koha would probably be 10x faster. i have seen that in search and will try to look deeper into it after i finished some other stuff. but 470 DT objects for one checkout sounds like that too 12:25 Joubu note that I have 420 rows in special_holidays, it can be related 12:26 drojf if that has to be done _per checkout_, it should be cached 12:27 Joubu there are cached using Koha::Cache already 12:29 drojf i know too little about DT, but could we have one "all holiday stuff" master DT object for that? or is it only possible per single date? 12:35 ashimema we do drojf 12:35 ashimema it's a DateTime::Set 12:35 drojf ah ok 12:36 ashimema but basically that's just an array of DateTime objects with a tiny bit of sugar around it ;) 12:36 drojf heh 12:36 ashimema do we really cache that stuff already? 12:36 ashimema if so, then those 470 instantiations shouldn't be happening every time 12:37 drojf yes that sounds odd 12:37 ashimema or are we serializing the objects as part of the caching process, then instantiating them again on every load from the cache 12:37 drojf maybe we cache the stage before we need to do the instantiation 12:37 drojf yes 12:37 ashimema that would account for it.. so the cache would only be aleviating DB load.. 12:38 drojf that sounds similar to what we do with the framework structure in search ;) 12:38 * ashimema goes blind whilst reading the crazy looping involved in some of koha's code 12:38 drojf yes. this 12:38 wahanui yes. this is very serious business ;) 12:39 Joubu If I get it correctly... special_holidays is a DateTime::Set and is not cached (and use ->contains) 12:39 ashimema K.. 12:39 Joubu but single_holidays does 12:39 Joubu ha no, one is calling the other 12:40 ashimema hmm 12:40 ashimema maybe my branch is out of date.. 12:40 Joubu Ok, the DT::Set is not cached, but the DT objects to create it are cached 12:40 ashimema I can just see a commment about Koha::Cache 12:40 ashimema but no code actually using it. 12:41 Joubu but 14522 12:41 Joubu bug 14522 12:41 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14522 normal, P5 - low, ---, mtj, Pushed to Master , Use Koha::Cache for accessing single_holidays() 12:41 gaetan_B translate.koha-community.org is saying "server error" when i search for a string, is anything wrong with it ? 12:42 drojf "nytprof showed a time reduction of the single_holidays() sub - from 61.7s to 587ms" goodness 12:43 Joubu "only" 57 DT objects are generated with an empty special_holidays table 12:43 drojf gaetan_B: i see that from time to time and it usually works a little later 12:43 ashimema yup 12:43 ashimema that makes loads of sense ;) 12:43 gaetan_B ok i'll try again in a few minutes then thanks drojf 12:44 Joubu ok so let's forget this DateTime change for the moment 12:44 ashimema we got rid of CHI didn't we :( 12:44 ashimema I like CHI's api 12:45 ashimema You gonna cache exception_holidays for the quick win then Joubu? 12:46 ashimema ack.. 12:46 Joubu ashimema: I don't think it will be useful, this table should not contain a lot of entries 12:46 ashimema why are those two method doing exectly the same thing.. in a totaly different way! 12:47 oleonard Hi #koha 12:48 ashimema Koha's internal api is crock full of **** 12:48 drojf ashimema: because we love diversity 12:48 magnuse ashimema: it's called redundancy. if one of the methods fail , we can fall back on the other one ;-) 12:50 tcohen hi 12:50 magnuse ¡hola tcohen! 12:51 tcohen hola Magnuse! 12:52 ashimema well.. in this case we can't fall back.. 12:52 ashimema I say they do exactly the same thing.. 12:52 ashimema they do.. but each one is it's own shortcut to doing the same thing but with a different list of dates.. 12:53 drojf hi tcohen 12:53 drojf hei magnuse 12:53 ashimema so.. you have exception_holidats and single_holdays.. they both work on a list of dates.. and the main purpose of them is so you can check if today appears in the list.. 12:53 tcohen hola drojf 12:53 ashimema yet th api to do exactly that is completely different between them. 12:53 tcohen dates api? 12:53 drojf brb 12:53 ashimema yup 12:54 ashimema Koha::Calender.. 12:54 ashimema I'm venting about exception_holidays vs single_holdays 12:58 Joubu ashimema: it's because single_holidays is caching all holidays, and we cache the string ymd instead of the DT objects 12:59 Joubu to avoid to full the RAM is suppose :) 13:01 ashimema I just don't see a reason for the api's to have diverged.. I'd convert the exception_holidays to use the same internal api.. 13:01 ashimema anywho.. 13:01 ashimema I should really get back to work 13:04 magnuse the patch on bug 13029 uses C4::Context->config('installdir'), but I can't seem to remember seeing that before and grep does not turn up anything for "installdir". am i missing something? 13:04 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13029 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, julian.maurice, Needs Signoff , Allow to pass additional parameters to SMS::Send drivers 13:05 Joubu It has been introduced by the Solr implementation 13:05 Joubu then removed 13:09 magnuse ah, thanks Joubu 13:17 tcohen hi Joubu 13:17 Joubu hi tcohen 13:31 bouzid_ hello 13:36 oleonard Hi bouzid_ 13:37 bouzid hi oleonard 13:44 bouzid Hi oleanard 13:46 nengard hola all 13:47 nengard Koha 3.22 manual is done :) Meaning all new features should be documented ... not that I won't ever touch it again :) 13:47 tcohen nengard++ 13:47 nengard now time to tackle the help files 13:48 nengard also if you see something missing let me know 13:48 magnuse nengard++ 13:50 bouzid Hi all 13:52 magnuse nengard: 2.1.5.3.13. ConsiderOnSiteCheckoutsAsNormalCheckouts has <a id="idm140439830938288"></a> - looks like some generated id. <a id="ConsiderOnSiteCheckoutsAsNormalCheckouts"></a> would be more in line with other headings 13:53 nengard strange 13:53 nengard okay checking now 13:54 nengard oh! magnuse it's because I forgot to give it an id ;) 13:54 nengard thanks 13:54 bouzid I work on ElasticSearch 13:54 bouzid is what someone can give me information about the project progress 13:55 tcohen bouzid: you're volunteering to help? 13:56 bouzid yes 13:57 nengard bouzid++ 13:57 nengard bouzid the ticket for elastic is here: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12478 13:57 huginn` 04Bug 12478: enhancement, P5 - low, ---, robin, NEW , Elasticsearch support for Koha 13:57 nengard it should have the info you need - but if not you can ask 13:57 nengard I know that bag knows alot but he's out of the country 13:58 nengard and eythian might be here - or might not ... 13:58 tcohen bouzid++ 13:59 bouzid thanks tcohen 13:59 tcohen bouzid: you should contact rangi (Chris Cormack) about this, as he said he will pick where Robin left (at Catalyst) 14:00 tcohen chris@bigballofwax.co.nz 14:02 bouzid ok thanks for informations, i will contact chris 14:31 Joubu bouzid: how would you like to help? 14:39 bouzid Joubu : I do not know, fix bugs or programming patches as needed 14:39 mveron Hi #koha 14:39 mveron Hi #koha 14:40 Joubu bouzid: As I understood, the development will be in standby for the next month. 14:41 Joubu bouzid: you can start with reading the different comments on the bug report, installing ES, reading the code, trying to understsand how it is implemented, etc. 14:41 Joubu You can also try to search and fix bugs :) 14:42 mveron I need a hint: After seting <use_zebra_facets> to 1 and doing a full re-index I get "Error: Can't call method "raw" on an undefined value at /usr/share/kohaclone/C4/Search.pm line 798." 14:42 mveron (in OPAC and Staff catalog search) 14:42 Joubu mveron: are you sure it's releated to the use_zebra_facets flag? 14:43 mveron Joubu: If I turn it off search is OK 14:43 Joubu ha yes 14:43 bouzid Joubu : thanks for informations 14:46 Joubu mveron: nothing else before? 14:48 mveron Joubu: I changed the config file for log4perl and for the upload folder 14:48 tcohen mveron: I never saw that 14:48 Joubu mveron: does it explodes for any search or a specific one? 14:48 Joubu mveron: I meant: nothing else in the logs before this error? 14:48 mveron Joubu: For any search 14:48 mveron And no, nothing in the logs 14:49 tcohen mveron: maybe the indexing went wrong? 14:50 mveron tcohen: I will try again with indexing. 14:50 mveron BTW it's on the dev server, no emergency... 14:51 tcohen maybe we should've put that line inside an eval anyway 14:51 tcohen because it is possible that there's no facet for the requested elementSet 14:51 mveron tcohen: It tested with an eval on that line, I then had simply no facetsa t all. 14:51 mveron at all 14:51 tcohen so… this looks like a behaviour change in Zoom 14:53 cait Joubu: do you remember by chance yur patch about shipment date? 14:53 cait i thought there was something new about it being editable in 3.22 .. but can't find it 14:53 cait @later tell wizzyrea - we need to update the start page for 3.22 :) 14:53 huginn` cait: The operation succeeded. 14:53 cait @later tell wizzyrea ... https://koha-community.org/ 14:53 huginn` cait: The operation succeeded. 14:55 Joubu cait: bug 11062? 14:55 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11062 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, ASSIGNED , Invoice's shipment/shipping cost should be included PRE-gst tax (as an option) 14:55 cait hm something about the date 14:56 Joubu cait: bug 8417 14:56 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=8417 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Pushed to Master , date acquired is shipping date 14:56 Joubu Bug 8417: Make the order receive date editable 14:57 cait ! 14:57 cait thx 14:57 cait i loked with shipping date 14:57 cait i don't understand how i missed it 14:58 cait Joubu++ 15:43 barton oh search gurus: I have a library who's reporting that sort_by=title_az and sort_by=pubdate_asc stop working at about offset=1000. I don't see any bugs filed for this. I'm not exactly sure where to start troubleshooting this. 15:52 nengard barton 15:52 nengard no one will search that far 15:52 nengard that's what talljoy said 15:53 oleonard nengard: Except the library who reported it? ;) 15:53 nengard LOL 15:53 nengard no patron will search that far 15:53 nengard hehe 15:53 nengard only use crazy librarians do 15:53 nengard only 'us' crazy librarians 15:53 nengard sorry 15:54 * nengard is part of us 16:12 gaetan_B i'm still getting server errors on translate.koha-community.org (small message at the bottom when searching) 16:36 nengard can somoene tell me the status of http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15111 - i was able to see it, but no longer am 16:36 huginn` 04Bug 15111: is not accessible. 16:36 nengard cait maybe 16:37 cait hm are you logged in with nicole@bywater...? 16:37 cait that's the address on the access list 16:39 nengard oh no - i'll change my log in 16:59 gaetan_B bye 17:11 tcohen barton: i've just got a similar report! 17:16 barton tcohen: I just filed bug 15331 17:16 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15331 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, NEW , Sort order breaks at offset=1000 (both OPAC and Intranet) 17:18 barton I think that we pull back the results from zebra in chunks of 1000, and only the first chunk is ordered correctly. 17:23 tcohen sorry 17:43 reiveune bye 18:41 magnuse kia ora talljoy 18:49 talljoy hiya magnuse! 19:08 oleonard Are there special tools for package installations for setting up cron jobs? 19:10 eythian No 19:11 oleonard Okey dokey 19:13 eythian Imo they all should be syspref controlled. 19:38 tcohen oleonard: vim, as far as I can tell 19:58 oleonard Bye #koha 20:06 wizzyrea cait: should be fixed now 20:07 wizzyrea @later tell cait the website should be fixed now 20:07 huginn` wizzyrea: The operation succeeded. 20:14 magnuse wizzyrea++ 20:16 magnuse so when you have a list of different data like so: 20:16 magnuse age: 43 20:16 magnuse zip: 1234 20:17 magnuse what's the english word for age and zip? 20:18 magnuse labels? 20:18 wahanui labels are for our book acquisitions. So maybe, I need to work out how we are doing the Acquistions then. 20:20 wizzyrea I'd call that a label yes 20:20 wizzyrea but I suppose the context of the data is important 20:20 wizzyrea (is it json, or in a database, or displayed on a web page...) 20:25 magnuse wizzyrea: displayed on a web page 20:25 magnuse i think i'll settle for labels 20:25 mtj magnuse: field 20:26 magnuse oh, that's a good one too! 20:27 wizzyrea I thought the field was where you put the actual data. 20:27 mtj hmm, i think a 'field' might only be for input 20:27 mtj yeah, true ^ 20:27 wizzyrea http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_label.asp 20:28 wizzyrea that thing is a label :) 20:28 mtj agree :) 20:33 drojf is there a good doodle alternative i could put on my server? 20:33 wizzyrea doodle? 20:33 mtj hmm, not sure myself drojf 20:34 wizzyrea https://dudle.inf.tu-dresden.de/about.cgi 20:34 mtj ..$peeps, any SIP users hit the bug 15305? (or not?) 20:34 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=15305 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, In Discussion , KOHA SIP2 checkout doesn't update of the item holding status 20:35 rangi not in production mtj 20:35 rangi it uses AddIssue 20:35 rangi the same as circulation.pl 20:36 rangi so the problem could only be caused if the date was passed in a format that caused the code that updates the items table to fail 20:36 rangi the issue row is created 20:36 * mtj cant find the irc scrollback of that issue 20:36 mtj thanks rangi ^ 20:36 rangi its just the items.onloan is not updated 20:36 drojf wizzyrea: i found that too, do you know it? 20:37 wizzyrea I don't, but it's the only one that seems like a reasonable replacement? 20:37 mtj rangi: 'not in production' means you have found the bug in a dev/test koha.. no? 20:39 rangi nope 20:39 rangi havent recreated it anywhere yet 20:40 mtj yep, understood :) 20:41 mtj i hope to test bug this today 20:41 drojf to avoid doing slides i proposed organizing a hackfest. i am amazed by my procrastination skills. 20:41 mtj ..after have i coffee moar 20:46 tcohen en-NZ++ 20:50 wizzyrea ? 21:06 magnuse thanks wizzyrea and mtj, i went with label 21:15 magnuse have fun #koha! 22:16 drojf do we have good examples for customized bootstrap OPACs? 22:17 dcook Probably some of the Catalyst ones 22:17 dcook And maybe cait might have some? 22:17 rangi i like https://ihc.mykoha.co.nz/ 22:17 * dcook thinks both tend to do nice designs 22:18 cait ours are all a bit similar 22:18 cait but you can take a look sec 22:18 rangi https://library.parliament.govt.nz/ i like also 22:18 * dcook recalls cait having done an amazing one pre-bootstrap? 22:19 cait [off] https://wiki.bsz-bw.de/doku.php?id=l-team:koha:referenzen:start 22:19 cait a list of our opacs 22:19 wizzyrea http://www.library.waitaki.govt.nz/ I like this one, the library did it 22:19 wizzyrea it's not super styled, but their header is good. 22:19 cait hm maybe the one for manuscripts? the links are somewhere at the bottom 22:19 rangi yeah, they did all that themselves, i think its one of the nicer public library ones 22:19 dcook cait: Yeah, I think it was the manuscript one 22:19 cait and thx wizzyrea :) 22:20 cait (updating the website) and in general :) 22:20 drojf great links, thanks everyone! 22:21 drojf the parliament one does not show much without an account i think 22:21 drojf or i have blockes something ;) 22:21 rangi https://hewitson.mykoha.co.nz/ maybe 22:21 cait hm 22:22 cait nengard shared some with me recently, i think i might have the link list on my cloud 22:22 cait sec 22:23 rangi we have a lot more, but they are all non public 22:23 wizzyrea ^ 22:23 wizzyrea we basically have a design company inside our company. 22:26 drojf heh 22:26 cait i wish we had that :) 22:27 cait hm sorry, i htink the list is at work somewhere 22:28 cait or my owncloud is just being annoying 22:29 drojf no worries, thanks for looking. got a few good examples now :) 22:33 cait lol 22:33 cait no wi found it 22:33 cait ownclodu really was just annoying 22:34 cait drojf: http://paste.koha-community.org/197 22:36 drojf wow thats a huge list. thanks! 22:37 cait some from catalyst too - result of my last survey on #koha 22:37 cait community++ 22:53 * drojf heads home 22:56 mtj ah bummer, im going to have to run the 3M-sipdev tools in wine 22:56 mtj before i fcking kill myself 22:57 * wizzyrea wonders what the difference between "create" and "add" is in the log viewer 22:58 mtj i guess they are the same action, just labeled differently 22:58 cait I'd suspect a similar thing 23:10 wizzyrea I think they're specific to the module you are looking at 23:10 wizzyrea it's still pretty confusing 23:13 cait agred 23:13 cait agreed 23:31 mtj hum, i can't even seem to fake a SIP checkout, via the SC-emulator :/ 23:31 rangi use telnet 23:31 rangi its much easier 23:32 wizzyrea yeah you can just grab the request out of the log and send it 23:32 wizzyrea a request* 23:32 mtj yeah, i have historically.. for simplier stuff 23:33 rangi i just have a page, and i edit the borrower cardnumber, and the barcode number 23:33 rangi and cut and paste 23:34 wizzyrea I am displeased with the documentation on merge_authority.pl 23:34 mtj i think i thought using the emulator would be more 'correct', with checksum and such 23:35 mtj but no 23:35 wizzyrea have you ever seen a 3M machine work with a koha using checksums? I don't think I have. 23:35 wizzyrea iirc you turn that off when you work with Koha 23:35 wizzyrea but it's been ages 23:36 wizzyrea since I did that and I could have a bad memory 23:36 rangi i never seen a 3M machine work with anything 23:36 rangi with any reliability anyway 23:36 wizzyrea 3m's gonna need cream for that burn 23:41 mtj herm..i think im making progress 23:46 cait wizzyrea: i think we fixed hte checksum 23:46 cait i remember something was wrong with it and umlauts and the coworker fixed it :) 23:46 wizzyrea Aha 23:46 cait and it got into Koha too - but I can't tell if all of them actually use it 23:46 rangi what an asshole 23:46 cait i think it was not 3M 23:46 wizzyrea ? 23:46 rangi paul a 23:47 wizzyrea omg 23:47 wizzyrea bullshit he doesn't snark. 23:47 cait ... 23:47 rangi toxic person, needs removing 23:47 wizzyrea every email is a snark 23:47 cait do i really want to read before goingto sleep? 23:47 wizzyrea yes. 23:47 wizzyrea nah 23:47 rangi no, dont it adds nothing 23:47 rangi his mails never do 23:48 wizzyrea oh I called him on his last 3.8 mail 23:48 wizzyrea and got back a diatribe about datapoints 23:48 wizzyrea and I'm like, idgaf, they're not using that version, they're not going to use that version, you're not contributing, please stop. 23:48 rangi yeah 23:48 wizzyrea I'm just working on how best to answer his mail 23:48 wizzyrea halfway inclined to go with what I just wrote, actually. 23:49 rangi knowing about transistors is cool and all, but contributes zero 23:49 cait wizzyrea the brave :) 23:49 wizzyrea I won't. but it's tempting 23:49 rangi im old so im right 23:49 wizzyrea also transistors are pretty far removed in the pipeline from koha 23:49 rangi has never had any truck with me 23:49 wizzyrea :P 23:50 wizzyrea unless we're going to talk about running koha 3.8 on the dell models that had the exploding capacitors I don't think that expertise helps 23:50 wizzyrea idk how to deal with him he obviously thinks he's being valuable 23:50 rangi i dont know 23:51 rangi i think he's a mansplainer of the nth degree 23:51 wizzyrea now that is probably accurate 23:51 wizzyrea we shoudl be grateful he's not a troll AND a mansplainer? 23:51 wizzyrea he's certainly not harmless though. 23:51 rangi i think owen probably knows a bit more about the front end of koha than him 23:52 rangi but he's gonna mansplain with w3c is to him nonetheless 23:52 wizzyrea haha yeah, gl with that 23:53 dcook Oh man... 23:53 * dcook might avoid the listserv for a bit today 23:54 dcook My emails are just epic-length novels. Hopefully without any snark, trolling, or mansplaining. 23:59 drojf "perhaps even pedantism" 23:59 drojf lol