Time Nick Message
00:00 dcook [off] Note to self: don't ride a bike in Vancouver... http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/ismail-bhabha-vancouver-police-officer-found-guilty-of-assaulting-cyclist-1.3179398
00:02 rangi [off] i think the real note is under no circumstances ever interact with law enforcement anywhere in north america
00:02 dcook [off] Yeah, that's pretty much true
00:03 dcook [off] Unless you're white and male. Then you might be OK.
00:03 dcook [off] Actually, scratch that too. Oh the stories I have...
00:04 wizzyrea_ [off] hm, this is a recurring theme today.
00:04 dcook [off] Oh?
00:04 rangi [off] thats what i was telling people who were all 'Nigeria? isn't that dangerous' i was all well statistically im more likely to be shot by a cop in the USA when i visit the inlaws the month before than anything happen to me in nigeria
00:05 Francesca hi rangi
00:05 dcook [off] That's interesting!
00:06 eythian dcook: from another channel: <eythian> http://www.regionalwines.co.nz/gift.aspx/big-and-ballsy-beer-pack <-- wizzyrea_ should get the first one of these
00:06 rangi [off] 118 in july
00:06 dcook [off] I thought I saw something like that..
00:06 rangi [off] on course to have more than 1150 this year
00:07 wizzyrea_ [off] which made me think of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVrFIP0CMs
00:07 rangi [off] its pretty mental
00:07 dcook eythian: Mmmm beer
00:07 * Francesca is very confused
00:07 dcook What do I have at home at the moment...
00:07 eythian > Uggh I hate that. You'll just be out buying a newspaper and Trent Reznor starts chasing you around. <-- t/hee
00:07 wizzyrea_ hee
00:07 dcook My wife bought it for my birthday back in June but I've been too sick to enjoy it, so I'm saving it for when I can smell and taste again..
00:08 dcook Bahaha
00:08 dcook I forgot about that video!
00:08 rangi heh
00:08 dcook Usually when I think of Trent Reznor, this is what I think of though :p
00:08 wizzyrea_ [off] also there has been a mass shooting every day this year (defined as 4 or more people being shot - not killed) in the US
00:08 rangi did we have any nine inch nails at whisky? I think don covered every other band from that era
00:09 wizzyrea_ lol no I don't think so
00:09 wizzyrea_ that is clearly an oversight
00:10 rangi [off] so yeah the 7 people in nigeria who died of ebola outbreak ... not even the same magnitude :)
00:11 eythian something something hundreds kidnapped something something ;)
00:15 rangi https://twitter.com/esilibrary/status/628579060482846720
00:16 dcook hehe
00:16 dcook Yeah, there are a few places I might be reluctant to travel to
00:16 dcook Meeting time
00:16 wahanui mmm meat
00:16 wizzyrea_ haha
00:17 rangi oh yeah im not planning to go out wandering around by myself
00:47 Francesca hey cdickinphone
00:47 wahanui cdickinphone is also a sleep deprived zombie
00:48 cdickinphone Hiya Francesca
00:48 Francesca tell me are you still a sleep deprived zombie?
00:48 cdickinphone By definition, no, by feeling, yeah
00:49 cdickinphone Thankfully, that's not why i missed my 12pn lecture
00:56 dcook I don't know why, but this just went through my head: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrwOxpac0XY
00:58 cdickinphone That's what happens before i descend into zombiedom
00:59 dcook That reminds me I have a lot of sugary snacks to eat right now...
01:00 * dcook needed a bigger desk to accomodate the second monitor and all these cookies and donuts...
01:29 dcook hey wizzyrea_, eythian, rangi: might one of you let me know what's in a sample <pluginsdir>?
01:30 eythian I think I just set it to /var/lib/koha/instancename/plugins
01:30 eythian and put the plugin in there
01:30 dcook Cool. That makes sense
01:30 dcook I can't tell if the path I had in my dev was set by me or a default or what
01:30 dcook Been too long since I set the thing up..
01:52 dcook Ergh... unexpected errors are the worst
01:52 dcook Especially when they're silent..
01:53 eythian but deadly
01:54 dcook Yeah, for some reason when I search for "test" the EDS plugin is adding "undefined" into the search query
01:54 dcook or something is..
01:54 dcook But this didn't happen on my dev install yesterday...
01:56 dcook Looks like maybe some missing cookie or something? :S
01:58 dcook Yep... cookie troubles
01:58 dcook That's not nice..
02:03 dcook Oh man... updating plugins for 4 different instances and they're each giving me their own special problems..
02:03 dcook Can't even uninstall the plugin in one of them :S
02:04 dcook Permission issue. Zap!
02:04 dcook eythian: Have you seen Weeds?
02:04 eythian yep
02:05 dcook I'm midway through season 7 right now and my favourite line?
02:05 dcook "My password is 'policeofficer' all lowercase."
02:05 eythian heh
02:10 dcook Ugh maybe it's not a cookie maybe it's local storage..
02:11 dcook Yep. Local storage is me problem. Oh nose...
02:11 dcook That won't be fun telling a bunch of users that they need to clear their local storage...
02:12 eythian erg
02:14 dcook I think it's because I updated the authentication info..
02:14 * dcook tests this again
02:15 dcook Hmm nope not that..
02:15 dcook But somehow it's the local storage :S
02:16 dcook Ah I think I know..
02:16 dcook Nope..
02:30 dcook For any Pixies fans: https://play.spotify.com/track/4jNQkWhuzqrbqQuqanFFJ6
02:39 dcook It's because of DefaultParameters... or lack thereof...
02:41 dcook Which is stored in local storage...
02:41 dcook But not checked at all..
02:44 dcook Which happened in this case because of an upgrade from 1.6 to 1.8...
02:51 dcook Interesting... not sure if there's actually an update mechanism for the local storage :S
02:52 dcook Mmm maybe it does..
02:57 dcook Hmm the value in jStorage_update is about an hour ago...
02:58 * dcook thinks perhaps the EDS plugin sets TTLs but doesn't get TTLs...
02:59 dcook I thought it was supposed to "auto expire" though..
03:12 dcook Oh well. That's why I love open source. People can find and fix problems :D
03:28 dcook Oooh
03:28 dcook You can upgrade plugins just by uploading them again...
03:28 dcook Sweet as
03:29 dcook That's really handy actually..
03:29 Francesca hi dccok!!
03:30 dcook yo Francesca :)
03:30 Francesca what's up in your little corner of the world?
03:30 dcook Mmm keeping super busy
03:30 Francesca I'm avoiding writing an essay
03:31 dcook Certainly a worthwhile effort :p
03:31 Francesca essay writing is evil
03:31 ibeardslee /kick Francesca Do your essay!
03:31 Francesca lol
03:31 Francesca i am kinda doing it
03:32 Francesca just also working on other things at the same time
03:35 Francesca anyone got any tips on writing a proposal?
03:42 cdickinphone_ When i had to do the proposal for my project, there was four major points they boiled down to
03:42 Francesca ok
03:46 * dcook was an English major, so he's written a loooot of essays
03:46 dcook Just tweaked the EDS plugin :). I think I'll send along a pull request in a little bit
03:46 dcook Git all the things!
03:47 * Francesca is a music major
03:47 Francesca unfortunately that still means essays
03:47 dcook Is the essay about music or is it for an elective?
03:47 Francesca nope its for an elective
03:47 Francesca course is called WRIT 101
03:48 dcook Fun times!
03:48 * dcook is glad he doesn't have to write essays anymore
03:48 * Francesca is jealous
03:48 dcook Well, other than my Bugzilla test plans. Those are practically essays.
03:48 Francesca lol
03:48 Francesca The stuff I do for #koha is mainly web based
03:48 Francesca no essays
03:50 dcook Essays can be fun!
03:50 cdickinphone_ Francesca: 1. Problem, 2. Proposed Solution, 3. Evaluation, 4. Requirements
03:50 dcook But usually not until third year..
03:50 Francesca ugh 2 more years
03:50 Francesca and really? essays? fun?
03:50 dcook In my fourth year, I think I was writing essays about Ghost in the Shell
03:50 dcook It was good times
03:51 Francesca cdickinphone_ : I don't think they're looking for a solution
03:51 dcook Although when I wrote a paper about A Scanner Darkly comparing the film and book, I was pretty disappointed as it was clear the prof wanted the paper written his way
03:51 Francesca lol
03:51 cdickinphone_ Francesca: what are you proposing then?
03:52 dcook Francesca: Every time I wrote an essay, I felt like I had to teach myself how to write essays all over again.
03:52 Francesca according to the course outline we write 3 essays
03:52 Francesca proposal, critique a source, and research
03:52 dcook O_o
03:52 Francesca its not all due tomorrow
03:52 dcook How can a proposal be an essay? :S
03:52 Francesca I dunno
03:52 cdickinphone How can a proposal not propose something?
03:52 Francesca but the course is called something like introduction to essay writing
03:53 dcook Well then they should teach you, no? :p
03:53 Francesca cdickinphone: no idea
03:53 * dcook would be avoiding this project as well in this case
03:53 Francesca yeah I think my tutor is fond of the learning on the job idea
03:53 * dcook learns on the job and somehow manages to not suck at it :p
03:53 Francesca lol
03:53 dcook Well, in my self-critical opinion. I might be biased...
03:54 Francesca hahahahaha is there someone else we should ask?
03:54 dcook That's a good question
03:54 cdickinphone Can you give me more of an idea of what they want?
03:54 dcook I would say the people in #koha but I suppose not all of my work winds up here. Less and less really :/
03:55 Francesca we are to 'explore a debate'
03:55 dcook No shortage of that on the internet
03:55 cdickinphone The debate being?
03:55 Francesca in my case: obesity in nz
03:56 Francesca I was going to write about the airport
03:56 Francesca but the tutor said it wasn't a strong enough debate, and didn't have enough expert opinions
03:56 cdickinphone Oh
03:56 cdickinphone Yeah, that sucks :(
03:57 * dcook always preferred to use logic than experts in his essays
03:57 cdickinphone I guess they want it to be cited?
03:57 dcook (mostly because the experts weren't often that logical...)
03:58 Francesca cdickinphone: yup
03:58 cdickinphone Okay
03:59 cdickinphone And explore the debate... Are you supposed to take two opposing arguments and analyse them?
03:59 Francesca yup
04:00 eythian dcook: if I want to quickly learn about the query parser stuff, where would I go?
04:00 dcook insane?
04:00 eythian in particular, I'm interested in its inputs and outputs
04:00 eythian heh
04:00 eythian probably
04:00 wahanui i heard probably was not, but i do not know another way
04:00 dcook Hmm..
04:00 eythian oh
04:01 dcook http://evergreen-ils.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=documentation:technical:search_grammar
04:01 eythian it looks like it doesn't do what I wanted anyway
04:01 dcook The link is both helpful/unhelpful
04:01 dcook As our implementation doesn't work the same as Evergreen's
04:01 dcook eythian: It needs some work :/
04:01 eythian I'm looking for some nice generic search structure that I can use, that I can transmute into an ES query.
04:01 eythian because parsing strings sucks
04:01 dcook That it does
04:02 dcook Ideally, you could use the query parser
04:02 dcook Although I think you'd have to write a driver for it
04:02 eythian well, I'm in a position where everything is computer generated
04:02 dcook In the long-term, I would think it's the way to go?
04:02 dcook Hmm?
04:02 eythian so, I don't need to parse strings or anything
04:03 cdickinphone Francesca: what else do you do apart from that? You don't try to find common ground?
04:03 eythian I was hoping that the QP has some nice standard intermediate format that I could steal
04:03 eythian but that doesn't seem to be how it works
04:04 eythian e.g. it'd take a string, turn it to format X, then other things turn format X into a specific query language.
04:04 eythian then I could just use X to be consistent
04:04 eythian but that doesn't seem to be what happens.
04:05 eythian so I have to make up my own intermediate query language
04:05 dcook Hmm
04:06 dcook It would take a string and turn it into its own format X... then your driver would turn it from format X into a specific query language, yeah, I think so
04:06 eythian right. but where can I find what X is?
04:06 dcook But it's format is a parsed query tree I think
04:06 dcook Well, it's an internal format, I think
04:07 eythian yes, a query tree would be good.
04:07 dcook What do you mean about everything being computer generated?
04:07 eythian well, there's no human typing a search term
04:07 eythian so I don't have to deal with rubbish input
04:07 eythian so if I can move it around in some sane format, that's good.
04:07 dcook Mmm I think I get you
04:07 dcook Hmm
04:08 dcook Definitely take a look at OpenILS::QueryParser
04:09 dcook and the Koha::QueryParser modules
04:09 eythian http://perldoc.koha-community.org/OpenILS/QueryParser.html <--it's underdocumented
04:09 dcook Yeah, I spent hours just tearing it apart because of the lack of documentation :/
04:09 eythian it doesn't even have a copyright header :/
04:10 dcook It's certainly suboptimal :(
04:10 dcook I'm amazed that someone was able to keep it all in their head without documentation to be honest
04:11 dcook But you could probably reverse-engineer what jcamins did?
04:13 eythian I could
04:13 eythian but I'm not sure it's not a waste of time
04:13 dcook Yeah, I know that feeling
04:14 dcook If the QueryParser were already an integral part of Koha, I'd say it would be a requirement
04:14 dcook But since it's not...
04:14 eythian yeah
04:14 dcook I'd look at the "decompose" function in QueryParser.pm
04:15 eythian if it had a nice bit somewhere saying what it does, that'd be a pleasant start.
04:15 dcook For sure
04:15 eythian then I'd at least know if I was searching the right place.
04:15 dcook $self->new_plan
04:16 dcook $struct->add_node
04:17 dcook classed_node
04:18 dcook I'm not sure how "top_plan" or "plan_level" factor in
04:18 eythian I don't know what any of that is :)
04:19 dcook Ah, I'm just looking through "decompose"
04:19 dcook Which decomposes a free-form text string
04:19 dcook I figure it's output is the same output that you'd want to generate
04:19 dcook I recall atoms also being important
04:19 eythian yeah, that would make sense
04:20 dcook Hmm I see something about abstract queries. That would be good..
04:20 eythian if only it actually said somewhere what it is that it returns
04:20 dcook Bah, kids these days. They want everything written out for them!
04:20 eythian heh
04:20 dcook In my day, everything was written in Greek, and we just hoped it worked!
04:21 eythian screw it, I'm going to just make up a simple form that'll do the job now, and note that whoever failed to document the queryparser can be the person to convert it to use that in the future.
04:24 dcook I think it might go "query_plan" -> "node" -> "atom"
04:24 dcook Yeah, I can't fault you for that
04:24 dcook I sometimes wonder if the upstream Query Parser has been improved
04:26 dcook http://git.evergreen-ils.org/?p=Evergreen.git;a=blob;f=Open-ILS/src/perlmods/lib/OpenILS/Application/Storage/QueryParser.pm;h=1b5458d2b9fb03822fe0bab1b9ec247863332ba8;hb=HEAD
04:26 dcook I'm guessing perhaps not
04:26 dcook Last modified 2013-11-26
04:27 dcook That's actually sort of heartening I think
04:27 dcook Besides the lack of documentation :/
04:27 eythian heh yeah
04:28 dcook You know... might be an idea to chat to Mike Rylander about it
04:28 dcook That might be the easiest way to do it
04:29 dcook Anywho, I should probably work on something else atm
04:29 dcook sorry I couldn't help more, eythian :/
04:29 eythian s'ok. I was just hopeful that there was something sensible there I could use, but it seems not :)
04:30 dcook I have no doubt there is, but it would be time consuming to discover it :/
04:38 dcook Oh man... it feels like ages since I've done any web design
04:38 dcook I can't say I've missed it..
04:41 eythian http://paste.koha-community.org/35 <-- dcook, what I ended up with instead.
04:42 eythian it basically fufills my current needs and not a whole lot more :)
04:42 dcook mtj and chrisvella are one in the same?!
04:42 eythian I always thought so
04:42 chrisvella hahaha
04:43 dcook eythian: Looks like it does the trick
04:43 chrisvella mtj is playing around with nicks in our own channel
04:43 mtj shush dcook :0)
04:43 chrisvella or he has chrisvella_ as a spy... who knows ;)
04:43 dcook You guys have a lot of channels, eh? ;p
04:44 chrisvella hahaha
04:44 dcook eythian: I had to do something similar a little while back making a basic Koha search API
04:44 dcook Koha definitely needs more coherent search in every way..
04:44 eythian yeah, it's something we ought to have standard formats for really
04:44 dcook For sure
04:45 dcook So how are you going to handle regular free form search queries?
04:46 eythian http://git.catalyst.net.nz/gw?p=koha.git;a=blob;f=Koha/SearchEngine/Elasticsearch/QueryBuilder.pm;h=386073c6f44d31f1506c73330eaf5aeeeb35475a;hb=refs/heads/elastic_search#l155 <-- at the moment, I don't have to as the compatibility functions do that.
04:51 dcook Ahhh right
04:51 dcook I think I saw that a while back
05:26 gavitor Hello all....I am a new user and having successfully installed KOHA 3.20 on Monday I have found that I can't log on properly today...
05:35 gavitor Anyone getting my feed? I am having internet connectivity issues currently.......
05:47 drojf morning #koha
05:47 Francesca morning
05:48 drojf hi Francesca
05:48 drojf @wunder berlin, germany
05:48 huginn` drojf: The current temperature in Berlin Tegel, Germany is 17.0°C (7:20 AM CEST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Mostly Cloudy. Humidity: 88%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Rising).
05:48 Francesca @wunder wlg
05:48 huginn` Francesca: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 11.0°C (5:30 PM NZST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
05:49 drojf much cooler today. and my flat is back to a normal temperature :)
05:49 gavitor Hello?
05:49 gavitor exit
05:50 Francesca that is good
05:55 * Francesca is now writing an essay on cats
06:04 drojf as a music major?
06:05 cdickinphone ^ lol
06:05 cdickinphone I do Japanese, as an Engineering major
06:09 drojf in german, we have the word "katzenmusik" (literally 'cat music') for cacophony, and for something that apparently is called 'rough music' in english https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_music
06:16 * liw is wearing a t-shirt saying "Eine kleine Tasse Schokoladenschnitzel mit Bananenkartoffeln und Kabelsalat auf der Hauptbahnhof, bitte" and should probably stay out of this discussion
06:21 Francesca don't laugh at me
06:21 Francesca I may be a music major, but the cat essay is not for a music paper
06:21 Francesca its for my writing elective
06:23 Joubu morning #koha
06:27 Francesca morning Joubu
06:32 dcook That moment when you sit back down and try to remember what you were doing..
06:32 dcook Ah right..
06:33 cait @wunder Konstanz
06:33 huginn` cait: The current temperature in Bodensee Konstanz City, Konstanz, Germany is 20.7°C (8:32 AM CEST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 30.09 in 1019 hPa (Steady).
06:33 dcook @wunder syd
06:33 dcook heya cait
06:33 huginn` dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 16.0°C (4:00 PM AEST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 31%. Dew Point: -1.0°C. Pressure: 29.83 in 1010 hPa (Steady).
06:41 Francesca hey cait, dcook
06:41 cait if it stayed at 20... there would be no problem
06:41 cait supposed to go over 30 agan this week :(
06:41 Francesca dcook: I have a topic for my essay now!
06:41 dcook Francesca: Nice :)
06:41 dcook cait: :(
06:41 Francesca Its about cats
06:42 dcook Can't go wrong with cats
06:42 dcook Or maybe you can!
06:42 dcook What's the debate?
06:42 Francesca cait: I could send you my fanpen
06:42 dcook Reminds me that I haven't seen gmcharlt around here in ages...
06:42 Francesca dcook: Should cats be exterminated so as the preserve wildlife in nz
06:42 Francesca or should they be left alone, but have more regulations
06:43 * dcook isn't a pet person despite having two cats
06:43 cait Francesca: :)
06:43 cait brb
06:44 Francesca dcook: you have cats but you're not a cat person??
06:45 cdickinphone_ He might have a significant other that calls the shots on that one
06:46 Francesca hahaha
06:46 Francesca ok
06:48 dcook Francesca: Technically they're my wife's cats :p
06:48 dcook cdickinphone_: hehe yep
06:48 dcook They are adorable though
06:48 cdickinphone Whoop
06:48 dcook [off] https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153099337778947&set=a.10151008037238947.416668.517028946&type=1&theater
06:48 dcook I feel like that sums up my feelings about them :p
06:50 Francesca cats are adorable
06:50 Francesca my are particularly adorable
06:50 Francesca *mine
06:51 Francesca hey cdickinphone_ check this out
06:51 Francesca wahanui: cats
06:51 wahanui cats are endlessly entertaining.
06:52 cdickinphone A cat person then
06:52 Francesca cat bot might be a better description
06:58 gaetan_B hello
06:58 wahanui bidet, gaetan_B
07:01 drojf in serials, if i use 'manual history', does that mean nothing is filledinautomatically? i set up a subscription and received a few issues, but if i choose 'edit history' it's empty. is it supposed to be?
07:04 alex_a bonjour
07:06 dcook drojf: Can't remember. Sorry :/
07:08 Francesca @wunder wlg
07:08 huginn` Francesca: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 9.0°C (7:00 PM NZST on August 05, 2015). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.89 in 1012 hPa (Steady).
07:16 drojf not translatable either :/
08:27 kivilahtio Joubu: the way you partitioned Koha::Acquisition::Bookseller::Contact is very good!
08:27 kivilahtio Joubu++
08:47 nlegrand hello #koha
08:48 Francesca hello
08:49 Francesca hey cdickinson
08:49 wahanui I run Windows. Don't judge me.
08:49 cait ew
08:49 cait ;)
08:49 Francesca cait: are you judging him yet?
08:49 Francesca (the wellington team so totally is)
08:54 cait i am using windows at work too :)
08:54 cdickinson why hello there, Francesca
08:54 cait but ubuntu at home and debian for my dev environment here
08:54 cait ... so hardly in a position to give him a hard time really
08:54 cdickinson do I get a pass simply for being too lazy to replace it with Linux? :P
08:55 Francesca hehehehe
08:55 cait ok, now i am judging you ;)
08:55 Francesca I run mac don't judge me
08:55 cdickinson lol
08:55 Francesca but I have a vm with ubuntu installed
08:55 cdickinson have countless Ubuntu VMs for many different things here
08:55 cdickinson and live in shells
08:55 Francesca lol
08:55 Francesca cdickinson the shell dweller
08:56 cdickinson oh boy
08:56 Francesca hehehehe
08:56 Francesca wahanui roger that?
08:56 wahanui aye aye cap'n
08:56 nlegrand I have been using OpenBSD for a long time and juged everyone else. Now I'm on Debian and I feel like a hippie.
08:56 cdickinson don't you do what I think you're going to do
08:57 Francesca I'm not going to do anything
08:57 cdickinson literal cdickinson
08:57 wahanui cdickinson: cdickinson =is= <reply> I run Windows. Don't judge me.|a Linux admin who runs Windows. (blasphemer.)|<reply> cdickinson's worst fear is the worst fear of every programmer - the silent server fail
08:57 Francesca cdickinson: look up
08:57 Francesca I haven't done anything see?
08:57 cdickinson that pirate thing is clever
08:58 Francesca I couldn't resist
08:58 Francesca anyways
08:58 * Francesca should return to her cat essay
08:58 cdickinson is it coming along? :P
08:58 Francesca ish
09:00 Francesca who knew writing about cats could be so hard
09:01 cdickinson because you're probably not writing about how cute cats are :P
09:01 Francesca nope
09:01 Francesca don't think that'd pass somehow
09:01 Francesca I'll send you the draft another day
09:02 cdickinson yeah, I'll proof read it for you
09:02 cdickinson is it about the wild cats that basically become pests?
09:04 Francesca you'll see
09:05 cdickinson in that case, I'll look forward to it
09:05 cdickinson it has to be finished for that, though :P
10:42 * Francesca does a happy dance
10:42 Francesca essay is finished!
10:42 Francesca now to bed
10:42 Francesca goodnight
11:14 gaetan_B bye
11:55 nikesh join #koha
12:33 misilot is there an easy way to mass modify course reserve? (ie a list of barcodes remove from any course they are attached to?)
12:40 Joubu misilot: Not using the interface
12:41 tcohen hi #koha
12:41 misilot Joubu: :(
12:41 Joubu tcohen: o/
12:41 tcohen hi Joubu
12:42 tcohen Joubu: what's your first thought about bug 14598? Maybe we should extract the regression tests for the original bug?
12:42 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14598 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , itemtype is not set on statistics by C4::Circulation::AddReturn
12:43 Joubu tcohen: it seems to work, but itemtypes make me crazy...
12:44 Joubu I never know if everything is correctly checked
12:44 Joubu tcohen: lunch time ;)
12:44 tcohen no no
12:44 tcohen waiiiit
12:44 tcohen heh
12:47 tcohen cait
13:08 tcohen gmcharlt: around?
13:09 gmcharlt tcohen: hmm?
13:09 tcohen gmcharlt: bug 9351 vs. bug 14598
13:09 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9351 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Failed QA , item type not recorded correctly in statistics for returns and some local use
13:09 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14598 normal, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Signed Off , itemtype is not set on statistics by C4::Circulation::AddReturn
13:09 tcohen I missed frido's, but I'm not happy with the patches either
13:10 tcohen you have more insight on how we deal with itemtypes, can you take a look?
13:10 gmcharlt looking
13:10 tcohen i'm adding my opinion on frido's
13:11 Shane-S Hi all, I had to switch to DOM...followed http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Switching_to_dom_indexing. I got all my errors sorted, and checked system info...no issues there....however...
13:11 tcohen gmcharlt: done
13:11 Shane-S Now I get: Error: Can't call method "raw" on an undefined value at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Search.pm line 799. when I do a search
13:11 nengard hi all
13:11 tcohen hi nengard
13:17 * tcohen blinks
13:18 tcohen CanBookBeIssued... is used... to record localuse loans... *blink*
13:20 kivilahtio tcohen: nice! That is something I would love to hear when returning from a loong holiday
13:20 kivilahtio I might crawl back to where I came from
13:21 tcohen kivilahtio: sarcasm is discouraged here
13:21 kivilahtio boy if that had a regression test
13:21 kivilahtio hey but I do!
13:21 kivilahtio tcohen: sorry to ruin your day but I came here to complain/discuss
13:22 gmcharlt tcohen: reaction 1 - 14598 lacks an explicit test of the item-levels_itypes systpref, and since GetItems() doesn't do it...
13:22 tcohen heh
13:22 kivilahtio I have been working with these Koha::Objects and mainly accessing referenced tables
13:22 Shane-S so I rebooted...and the C4 error went away
13:22 Joubu Shane-S: Have you reindexed?
13:22 kivilahtio and that is very hard :)
13:22 Shane-S Joubu: I did before the restart as per the DOM conversion Wiki...seems fine now
13:23 gmcharlt tcohen: reaction two - same thing for bug 9351
13:23 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9351 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolin.somers, Failed QA , item type not recorded correctly in statistics for returns and some local use
13:23 kivilahtio has anybody done any performance tests with Koha::Object vs DBIx::Class related to referenced table access?
13:23 Shane-S I have another Question, the PERL tab in About Koha reports 4 things yellow, and 2 red...how can I get PERL to add the missing or warnings?
13:23 gmcharlt tcohen: upshot - please poke me tomorrow and I will emit a counter-patch for discussion
13:23 tcohen gmcharlt: you mean you will extend the regression tests?
13:24 kivilahtio Looking at the code, it feels like O(n) * O(n) * O(n) is starting to add up
13:24 kivilahtio well, just asking, take care!
13:24 tcohen i noticed on writing the tests, that if bib-level itypes are set, the bib-level itype is recorded on the item
13:25 tcohen gmcharlt: C4/Items.pm:179-183
13:26 tcohen so the item always carries an itemtype
13:27 gmcharlt tcohen: but in the case where item-level_itypes is off, but the items.itemtype is populated... it returns the item-level type
13:27 gmcharlt when the expecation is that it return the bib-level type
13:27 gmcharlt i.e., not quite the same thing
13:27 gmcharlt see C4::Circulation::TooMany() for an example of the logic I have in mind
13:28 tcohen ok
13:28 gmcharlt or line 622 in Koha/Schema/Result/Item.pm
13:29 tcohen gmcharlt: i see what you mean, but I suspect that belongs to a separate bug
13:30 * tcohen means that for fixing GetItem
13:30 Joubu tcohen: khall did something will an "effective_ittemtype" or something
13:30 tcohen yes, that's what gmcharlt pointed about the schema
13:30 Joubu indeed
13:31 gmcharlt tcohen: yeah, arguably changing GetItem() is a separate bug
13:31 gmcharlt but a local fix to AddReturn() can be done in parallel
13:32 tcohen Maybe sub GetItem { my $itemnumber = shift; return Koha::Item->search({ itemnumber => $itemnumber }) }
13:32 gmcharlt it occurs to me that clearest change to GetItem() would be to have it add an effective_itemtype to its return value
13:34 tcohen gmcharlt: i will post a followup with explicit tests for the case bl-itype && il-itype are defined for the item, and bl-itype is set, could you please review it?
13:34 gmcharlt will do
13:48 Shane-S can I jus do cpan upgrade (/(.*)/ or something like that, or do the Perl modules need to be handle individually? I installed from packages back like 3.08 then to 3.12 and now from 3.12-> 3.20 and apt-get isn't touching Perl
14:01 tcohen kivilahtio: weren't you about to complain about something?
14:01 kivilahtio tcohen: I am worried about the Koha::Object system and that it I am starting to see things with it
14:01 tcohen kivilahtio: elaborate, did you find limitations?
14:01 kivilahtio tcohen: they way we access linked resources from one object will sooner or later lead to circular references
14:02 kivilahtio tcohen: also I feel dump rewriting the exact same code DBIx enables, but DBIx prolly takes care of the circular references issues for u
14:02 kivilahtio we should inherit the Koha/Schema/Result/Object
14:02 kivilahtio this would lead to much much more prettier code
14:03 kivilahtio implementing these Koha::Object subclasses is no easier than with DBI
14:03 kivilahtio you have to implement a separate subroutine to access linked resources even if DBIx would do it for us, that is a lot of extra code we need writing.
14:03 kivilahtio and my fingers are starting to hurt and I don't want to do that anymore
14:04 kivilahtio so instead of saying $subscription->_result()->numberpattern();
14:04 kivilahtio we can just say $subscription->numberpattern() calling the DBIx
14:05 kivilahtio and we don't cache the linked resource in the Koha::Object-implementations $self->{linkedresource}
14:06 kivilahtio for ex if koha.biblio and koha.biblioitems for the same biblionumber get their biblio and biblioitems invoked using these Koha::Object relational accessors we get a circular reference and that wont get garbage collected unless we explicitly destroy the linkings
14:06 kivilahtio we cannot destroy the linkings if we lose the references to the biblios
14:07 kivilahtio this hapened to me when doing our data migration scripts. Man it was painful to track circular references
14:07 kivilahtio also I rewrite what DBIx already does for us
14:07 Joubu kivilahtio: the thing is we almost agree on Koha::Object after 4 years of "discussion"
14:07 Joubu ok it's not perfect, but at least we have something into master
14:08 Joubu feel free to suggest something else
14:08 kivilahtio Joubu: I am thinking of it
14:08 kivilahtio Joubu: I am not saying Koha::Object is a bad thing, but I would have like somebody to actually write real production code with it before pushing it to master
14:09 Joubu what is "real production code"?
14:09 kivilahtio and encoutner real issues you are bound to face when working with multiple referencing objects, like biblio-biblioitems and subscriptions
14:09 kivilahtio Joubu: something which actually does something more complex in production thatn just search/find
14:10 kivilahtio Joubu: I don't feel ok with Koha::Object. I think I will try a tech sprint by doing multiple inheritance with DBIx and Koha::Object
14:11 kivilahtio something like "use base qw(Koha::Object Koha/Schema/Result/Subscription);"
14:11 Joubu bug 13726, bug 14544, bug 11431
14:11 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13726 normal, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, Needs Signoff , Koha::Acquisition::Bookseller should use Koha::Object
14:11 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14544 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jonathan.druart, In Discussion , Move the list related code to Koha::Virtualshelves
14:11 huginn` 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11431 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Failed QA , Add additional sound options for warnings
14:12 kivilahtio +sub baskets {
14:12 kivilahtio + return $self->{_result}->aqbaskets;
14:15 Joubu yes I know: it's not elegant, but extendable.
14:16 Joubu I meant, if you manage to clean pl file and add readable code : my $baskets = Koha::Booksellers->find($id)->baskets
14:16 Joubu you will be able to replace Koha::Booksellers with what you like
14:16 Joubu no need to rewrite the callers
14:17 Joubu kivilahtio: really if you have a good option, I will be the first to be happy
14:17 kivilahtio Joubu: thanks for the feedback
14:17 kivilahtio I am thinking :)
14:19 Joubu kivilahtio: no matter if we have a layer with stupid methods like that. To me it's not important, just because it will be easy to fix when we will find a global fix
14:19 kivilahtio Joubu: we have to change every Koha::Object subclass ecause the code is each object references getter
14:20 kivilahtio sub contacts {
14:20 kivilahtio $self->{contacts} = Koha::Acquisition::Bookseller::Contacts->search( { booksellerid => $self->id } );
14:20 kivilahtio return $self->{contacts};
14:20 kivilahtio if contacts has similar subroutine which returns the object getting the contacts
14:20 kivilahtio and they both store a reference to each others...
14:20 kivilahtio and I see this pattern everywhere
14:21 kivilahtio this is not something you fix with DBIx or Koha::Object, you have to refactor every subroutine with this programming pattern.
14:21 kivilahtio I am no DBIx expert, frankly I barely get by, but I think DBIx will deal with this mess for us
14:21 Joubu that's why you have to provide a fix quickly!! :)
14:21 kivilahtio and do a lot of extra magic
14:25 cait hmif someone talked to me in the last hour..... my irc client died and with it all the messages - please resent *sigh*
14:26 nengard hola wnickc
14:26 nengard are you at kohana
14:30 tcohen kivilahtio: you can either: provide a fix to Koha::Object(s), and/or stick with DBIx for that specific project from yours, when we adopted Koha::Object(s) is was explicitly stated that it wouldn't be mandatory to use them.
14:31 tcohen the only mandatory guideline we embraced was not using plain SQL anymore
14:31 tcohen and we don't follow it (if you look at updatedatabase.pl) :-P
14:33 kivilahtio tcohen: reading you loud and clear
14:33 wnickc I am, no power near me so running on my phone and checking sporadically
14:34 wnickc Khall is doing a nice job of recording on the Bywater blog
14:35 cait wnickc: are you at kohana?
14:36 cait oh
14:36 cait missed nengards question - don't answer
14:36 wnickc Hi cait
14:36 nengard wnickc heather is doing a great job reporting on her own blog too
14:36 nengard I keep linking to her :)
14:37 * cait hopes for lots of testing of the new cataloguing editor
14:37 wnickc Not surprising, she is good at that, I can just see Kyle doing the blog from my chair
14:47 wnickc Anyone know what flagged does in frameworks
14:51 nengard um ....
14:52 nengard wnickc in what context?
14:52 nengard I don't see it in the db or eding a framework
14:53 wnickc Editing a subfield, under avdanced constraints with visibility
14:53 nengard OH!!!
14:53 nengard um .... hehe
14:54 nengard apparently the documentation manager had no clue cause she didn't include it in the manual
14:54 nengard anyone else know??
14:54 nengard tcohen cait?
14:55 tcohen hi
14:55 wahanui salut, tcohen
14:55 wnickc There is a mention in the help for the page, but only says it is exclusive to all other options
14:56 cait nengard: i think noone knows
14:56 nengard well that's encouraging
14:56 nengard hehe
14:56 * nengard is being sarcastic
14:56 cait we'd have to read the code to see if the numeric hidden value it translates too has actually an effect
15:04 tcohen gmcharlt: do u remember what is supposed to be the behaviour when item.itemtype is NULL? fallback to biblio-level itype?
15:05 kivilahtio tcohen: item.ccode?
15:05 kivilahtio prolly not :(
15:06 cait nope
15:06 cait i think some of the code falls back to bibio.itemtype
15:06 cait but ... not sure that's consistently so
15:06 tcohen and some doesn't :-D
15:06 cait most likely
15:06 cait i'd think it would make some sense to have it fallback
15:08 tcohen ok, i'll fill a new bug...
15:08 tcohen damn
15:08 tcohen sorry
15:08 * tcohen ends blasphemous mode
15:31 pianohacker morning
15:33 nengard hi pianohacker
15:33 tcohen hi pianohacker
15:35 kivilahtio tcohen: Joubu: Ran some tests and the circular referencing object are actually different objects, even if they represent the same business data.
15:35 gmcharlt tcohen: cait: falling back across the board would be... new behavior
15:35 kivilahtio so there is no circular reference when using DBIx or Koha::Object.
15:35 kivilahtio sorry for getting hyped up.
15:36 gmcharlt general idea is that if you set item-level_itypes, one *must* always set an item type for each item
15:36 kivilahtio The downside is that DBIx doesnät do caching, or it summons a completely new resultset object for all of these different objects. Thus we don't get any caching
15:37 gmcharlt (not that falling back to bib-level is an inherently silly notion -- not at all -- but it wouldn't be universally expected either, and we're in a situation where we've got the dead weight of history to deal with)
15:37 kivilahtio and if we update one referenced version of the same business data the changes wont propagate to the other existing implementation. Not sure if that is bad, but it is inefficient.
15:38 Joubu Have to go, have a good day/evening #koha
15:38 gmcharlt (as well as various interpretations, each of which individually is sensible, but collectively are too inconsistent to bear)
15:38 kivilahtio anyway. Just saying that there should be no circular reference issues with the way we currently get referenced objects.
15:38 tcohen bye Joubu !
15:38 kivilahtio bye!
15:42 pianohacker kivilahtio: so in other words, $item->biblio()->items()->[0], say, would not get you back to $item?
15:42 Koha_User Hello
15:42 wahanui bidet, Koha_User
15:43 Koha_User Where can i find apache?
15:43 wahanui apache is probably the ram hog
15:43 kivilahtio pianohacker: it gets you back to a basically cloned object of the original item
15:43 kivilahtio which is cloned in the biblio-object
15:44 kivilahtio it has the same data.
15:44 pianohacker right, same data but different object
15:44 kivilahtio thus no circular reference
15:44 kivilahtio but also expensive DB calls for something which DBIx should automatically cache in the process memory
15:48 kivilahtio pianohacker: you could do:: $item->biblio($biblio); $biblio->addItem($item); Which might get us into trouble
15:49 pianohacker kivilahtio: hmm, yeah, technically redundant but might create a circular reference
15:50 kivilahtio Apparently DBIx doesnt do transparent caching?? I am surprised to find an ORM that doesn't.
15:50 kivilahtio Well how goes the saying? "Assume, makes an ass out of you and me" :)
15:51 pianohacker caching has the potential to create enough weird issues, especially in Perl, that they probably want to make sure you know what you're doing
15:53 kivilahtio pianohacker: can you elaborate that a bit?
15:53 kivilahtio what do you mean?
15:58 Kchris I have been trying to set up a development/testing environment with kohadevbox. I have had Koha running on it at times, but sometimes "vagrant up" fails. I am not really clear why.I get error messages such as "File [/home/vagrant/kohaclone/koha_perl_deps.pl] is not executable!
15:58 jgabin hello!
15:59 kivilahtio Kchris: sorry, I don't know anything about Vagrant. We use pure LXC. It works :)
15:59 jgabin I have a question about reserves
16:00 jgabin When a reserve is waiting, and this reserve is expired, there is a cronjob that cancel this reserve, but, the next one, that has priority 1 is not set as W. Do I have to set it manually or there is a cron that do this job?
16:01 Kchris kivilahtio: where would one get started with LXC?
16:02 kivilahtio Kchris: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LXC
16:02 kivilahtio Kchris: but I would ask around some more about Vagrant
16:02 kivilahtio don't ditch it just yet, if you have made some investment in learning it
16:02 kivilahtio Kchris: we use LXC because I don't need any extra middleware to debug, like with Vagrant or Docker or whatnot
16:03 cait @later tell drojf noooooooooooooo - now you are gone and i want to know!
16:03 huginn` cait: The operation succeeded.
16:03 kivilahtio Kchris: LXC is actually dead easy
16:03 kivilahtio configuring the nwtworking is more challenging and you need to know about iptables and friends to get it working
16:04 kivilahtio but if you want something that can access the internet and doesnät need to be exposed to the public, it is very easy
16:04 kivilahtio like having development environments for different versions of linux, or different versions of Koha
16:07 kivilahtio bye #koha
16:07 kivilahtio you are precious :)
16:18 Kchris kivilahtio: thanks for the pointers.
16:23 jgabin Anyone could help me? :(
16:23 jgabin When a reserve is waiting, and this reserve is expired, there is a cronjob that cancel this reserve, but, the next one, that has priority 1 is not set as W. Do I have to set it manually or there is a cron that do this job?
17:37 tcohen hi
17:37 wahanui bonjour, tcohen
17:57 indradg hello #koha
17:57 indradg @seen khall
17:57 huginn indradg: khall was last seen in #koha 1 day, 5 hours, 34 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <khall> sounds like a good plan
18:03 pianohacker indradg: Kyle is currently at the Koha NA user's group meeting, and may not respond until next week
18:04 pianohacker worth leaving a later though, he may check in
18:04 indradg pianohacker: i know... bag asked me to ping him here :)
18:04 pianohacker oh hahaha okay :)
18:06 indradg @later tell khall was wondering if the KohaNA 2015 sessions were being recorded/podcasted/transcripted now or anytime later?
18:06 huginn indradg: The operation succeeded.
18:22 mtompset Greetings, #koha.
18:23 mtompset @seen tcohen
18:23 huginn mtompset: tcohen was last seen in #koha 45 minutes and 58 seconds ago: <tcohen> hi
18:23 tcohen hi mtompset
18:23 mtompset I noticed the CC on the bug... I figured that means, I just don't attempt anything on 11592 until the underlying tech stops moving on me. :P
18:24 tcohen bug 11592
18:24 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11592 major, P3, ---, mtompset, In Discussion , opac detail scripts do not respect MARC tag visibility
18:24 tcohen what underllying tech?
18:24 mtompset tech/structures/objects/schemas.
18:24 tcohen my CC was so you test and sign :-D and we have the tech
18:25 mtompset Ah.
18:25 mtompset I'm noting the needs sign offs is gone almost to 200.
18:25 mtompset @seen gmcharlt
18:25 huginn mtompset: gmcharlt was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 47 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <gmcharlt> (as well as various interpretations, each of which individually is sensible, but collectively are too inconsistent to bear)
18:25 tcohen i didn't finish making the Koha::RecordProcessor changes to make it handle Koha::MetadataRecord object properly, but i'm almost done
18:27 mtompset Which reminds me... I should bug report that...
18:27 mtompset Recall our discussion about how to fix up Koha::RecordProcessor?
18:28 mtompset Your solution was to add filter as a second parameter.
18:28 mtompset My solution was to fix the string/object issue in the initialize call area.
18:28 mtompset Both are needed for ultimate flexibility.
18:31 tcohen mtompset: filter? wasn't it about the options?
18:31 mtompset params.
18:31 mtompset Perhaps options.
18:32 mtompset The variable names are confusing. :P
18:32 tcohen i know
18:32 tcohen mtompset: my plan is that instead of passing just MARC::Record objects (or XML::LibXML::Document, or JSON)
18:32 tcohen we will now pass Koha::MetadataRecord objects
18:33 tcohen that carry more information about themselves
18:33 mtompset Which makes sense, I suppose.
18:33 mtompset Oh... tcohen I have a suggestion regarding bug 14639
18:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14639 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, Needs Signoff , Extend Koha::MetadataRecord to handle serialization format
18:33 mtompset Include error checking for incorrect call format.
18:33 mtompset blah::new vs. blah->new
18:34 tcohen what?
18:34 tcohen no, don't bomb the bug, just sign it!
18:34 mtompset Koha::MetadataRecord is an object and should be called blah->new
18:35 mtompset but some newbie programmer might blah::new
18:35 tcohen once we have this pushed, fill all the bugs you want to enhance it
18:35 mtompset I'll sign the bug off, but that extra check would be nice to prevent stupid coder mistakes.
18:35 pianohacker mtompset: that's a universal issue, and not one that I think we should feel responsible for
18:36 pianohacker There's sanity checking and there's knowing Perl OOP :)
18:36 tcohen hehehe
18:36 mtompset checking that $self is the right class is a reasonable sanity check. :P
18:37 mtompset But, yes, an enhancement for later.
18:38 tcohen mtompset: if we were to do that kind of check on OO code in the Koha codebase, we could even hook it rewriting some Perl bits in runtime so we don't write that on all the files
18:40 tcohen oh my
18:42 tcohen @later tell gmcharlt I updated the bug, please let me know if the tests are what you had in mind. I like them and the solution makes real sense
18:42 huginn tcohen: The operation succeeded.
18:42 mtompset oh my?
18:43 tcohen i cannot name him in vain
18:43 mtompset oh my gmcharlt?
18:43 mtompset :)
18:44 tcohen i had issues rebuilding zerba indexes for authorities on one instance
18:45 tcohen and it turned out that if I run rebuild_zebra.pl manually, with -x it works
18:45 mtompset Nooooo.... you said the Z-word! :P
18:45 tcohen only one time
18:45 tcohen the first one i introduced a typo on purpose
18:45 tcohen :-P
18:46 mtompset One more time, and it would appear and kill us all. :P
18:46 tcohen we will still have Z fr a while, so we should learn to love it
18:57 tcohen mtompset: do u understand that 'options' might not be necessary anymore as each record carries the relevant information?
18:57 mtompset Haven't had time to read all the code.
18:59 mtompset tcohen: Why "prove t/Koha_Util_MARC.t"?
18:59 tcohen because that class is used ther
18:59 tcohen e
18:59 tcohen just to make sure is 100% backwards compatible
18:59 mtompset Metadata is not used.
18:59 mtompset I just did a pull before I started this.
19:00 tcohen I think is used in the merge authorities code
19:00 tcohen merging, in general
19:00 tcohen git grep MetadataRecord
19:01 tcohen if it is not needed, it doesn't hurt either I guess
19:07 ConanTheLibrari I'm a newbie with Koha and I'm wondering how to print / setup barcode labels?
19:07 mtompset Signed off. :)
19:07 ConanTheLibrari am I missing something in the wiki?
19:10 ikourmou test
19:10 pianohacker hi ikourmou
19:10 ikourmou hello there
19:10 pianohacker ConanTheLibrari: Hi! Have you checked the manual, as a first step? (not super familiar with labels)
19:11 drojf hi ikourmou
19:12 ConanTheLibrari pianohacker - checking now, thanks!
19:12 pianohacker ConanTheLibrari: while we're happy to help, the manual is often the best step if you're looking for instructions rather than troubleshooting :)
19:13 pianohacker *best first step
19:17 drojf ikourmou_ i can see you twice ;)
19:18 tcohen mtompset: thanks
19:18 drojf thanks for joining us btw
19:19 tcohen ikourmou_: welcome!
19:19 wahanui Welcome to zombo.com
19:21 tcohen bye #koha
19:21 * tcohen crawls back home to recover from the flu
19:21 ikourmou_ tcochen: thanks!
19:24 mtompset Where are course reserves in 3.20?
19:25 mtompset Oh, there's a system preference for that.
19:29 drojf my community contribution for today is this shiny new wiki page ;) http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Next_General_IRC_meeting
19:29 drojf now we only need elect a "next general irc meeting redirect page update manager"
19:29 drojf *need to
19:30 pianohacker oh gosh, I missed the morning meeting, didn't I?
19:31 drojf you missed that we abandoned split meetings a few months ago?
19:31 pianohacker *blink* for general, or dev meetings?
19:31 drojf stop confusing me
19:31 drojf :D
19:32 drojf for general, but it was not too long ago i think
19:32 pianohacker hey, this is an international open source project, we're _all_ supposed to be confused
19:32 pianohacker gotcha, though, thanks :)
19:32 drojf its almost dark here and i am sitting on my balcony with a bottle of cidre, don't listen to me
19:32 pianohacker *sigh* jealous, it's been a crazy day and I'd happily join you
19:36 drojf if you can come to an arrangement with the ever-growing raspberry there is room for one more ;)
19:36 pianohacker m'excellent
19:50 cait irc meeting in 10?
19:52 drojf yep
19:52 cait could be a short one if it's only us :)
19:52 drojf now ikourmou_ left us :/
19:52 cait cool idea with the redirect
19:53 cait hi ikourmou :)
19:54 ikourmou hi there. i seem to have some problems with my connection
19:54 drojf ikourmou: the webchat thing is a bit unstable i think
19:55 pianohacker hallo
19:55 ikourmou I'm on vacation (southern Crete) and my connection is through a wifi hotspot...
19:56 drojf oh, ok
19:56 drojf thanks for joining in from your vacation :)
19:57 cait ok, 3 minutes :)
19:58 ikourmou first time on an irc meeting, Mirko invited me so that i could talk about our kohacon proposal
19:58 cait very exciting :)
19:58 cait i was hoping you might be from greece - from the nicknam
19:58 cait e
19:58 drojf ikourmou: i am mirko by the way :)
19:59 ikourmou :-)
19:59 ikourmou ok!
19:59 cait have you been to the hackfest in marseille by chance?
19:59 ikourmou yes
20:00 cait i think we have met then :)
20:00 pianohacker ikourmou: were you there in 2014?
20:01 ikourmou not this year's though. it was the 2014
20:01 cait cait = Katrin
20:01 cait rangi is on the bus, he says 10 min
20:01 * cait tries to wake up people
20:01 pianohacker ikourmou: sweet! I'm Jesse, I was the young American
20:01 ikourmou hi Katrin, of course i remember you
20:02 cait yay :)
20:02 cait me too
20:02 cait ok, let's get this started, one sec
20:02 ikourmou hi Jesse. yes, i remembered your nick
20:03 JesseM Hi ;P
20:03 cait #startmeeting General IRC meeting 5 August 2015
20:03 huginn Meeting started Wed Aug 5 20:03:16 2015 UTC. The chair is cait. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:03 huginn Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.
20:03 huginn The meeting name has been set to 'general_irc_meeting_5_august_2015'
20:03 cait #topic introductions
20:03 wahanui #info wahanui, a bot that has become sentient
20:03 cait please follow wahanui's example and introduce yourself with #info
20:03 pianohacker #info Jesse Weaver, ByWater Solutions
20:03 drojf #info Mirko Tietgen, Berlin, Germany
20:03 JesseM #info Jesse Maseto , ByWater Solutions , USA
20:03 cait #info Katrin Fischer, BSZ, Germany
20:04 ikourmou #info Giannis Kourmoulis, A.U.Th. Greece
20:04 cait I think we forgot again to send a reminder about th emeeting... :)
20:04 drojf small meeting this time
20:04 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_5_August_2015
20:04 thd #info Thomas Dukleth, Agogme, New York - Busy helping a friend avoid eviction for having too wonderful a private library
20:05 cait i will give a little bit more time for people to show up
20:05 barton #info Barton Chittenden, BWS, Louisville, KY, USA
20:05 cait wnickc: #info? :)
20:05 cait oh
20:05 drojf nope
20:05 bag #info brendan gallagher bywater
20:06 bag I’m getting pulled in other directions so I maybe in and out (sorry)
20:06 talljoy #info joy nelson bywater
20:06 cait bag: try not to fall apart :)
20:06 bag HA
20:06 barton can somebody post the link to the meeting itinerary? please? :-)
20:06 cait http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/General_IRC_meeting_5_August_2015
20:06 barton cait++
20:07 cait slowly moving on then :)
20:07 cait #topic Announcements
20:07 cait someone from KohaNa maybe?
20:08 pianohacker I think most everyone at Koha NA is out of channel
20:08 cait ah wrong time i guess
20:08 cait i will have to read the blog posts later then
20:08 cait some other announcement?
20:08 pianohacker cait: one sec
20:09 cait *waits*
20:10 pianohacker http://bywatersolutions.com/tag/nakug15/
20:10 pianohacker sorry, took a bit to find
20:10 pianohacker can I #link it?
20:10 cait i will do it
20:10 cait #link http://bywatersolutions.com/tag/nakug15/
20:10 cait ok, moving on :)
20:10 thd I missed the opening of some
20:10 thd wait
20:11 cait hm?
20:11 thd I missed the opening of some recent meetings to announce the following.
20:11 thd I have been helping a friend avoid eviction for the past two months and for the next month.
20:12 pianohacker cool :)
20:12 thd When the ordeal is over I will resume my interrupted work on migrating databases etc. for the wiki.
20:12 cait thx thd
20:12 cait moving on :)
20:13 cait #topic Update on releases 3.18 - 3.20
20:13 thd My friend is accused of having too nice a private library for his apartment.
20:13 cait btw, please all refresh the agenda
20:13 mtompset #info Mark Tompsett
20:13 cait some additions have been made
20:13 rangi #info chris cormack, catalyst, NZ
20:13 cait morning rangi
20:14 cait could you give an update on 3.20?
20:14 drojf it is not allowed to make the list longer while the meeting is already running :P
20:14 rangi 3.20.3 is on track, nothing special to report
20:14 cait i think similar for 3.22 and 3.18 :)
20:15 cait there is some interesting stuff in the qa queue
20:15 cait but not a lot that is easy to test :)
20:15 cait as always... please test and sign-off on patches!
20:16 cait ok, moving on ...
20:16 mtompset That's why I was delayed paying attention. ;)
20:16 cait #topic KohaCon15
20:16 cait someone around?
20:16 rangi doesnt look like it
20:17 cait ok
20:17 cait moving on i think
20:17 rangi i am going
20:17 rangi thats all the kohacon15 news i have
20:17 drojf :)
20:17 cait rangi++
20:17 bag excellent news
20:18 cait ok,... now
20:18 cait #topic KohaCon16
20:18 cait ikourmou: would you like to say something about your plans/proposal?
20:18 ikourmou ok.
20:19 ikourmou our proposal appears in the respective page
20:19 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon16_Proposals
20:19 thd Which respective page?
20:19 ikourmou we will soon have a dedicated page containing info about the city (Thessaloniki), the university etc
20:20 ikourmou we can host the next kohacon on may or june
20:20 thd What about a more detailed proposal which has traditionally been expected of candidate venues?
20:21 bag hmm don’t know what you’re talking about thd
20:21 mtompset What sort of details are required? I'll nudge the Philippine proposal folks. :)
20:21 ikourmou what info should it contain?
20:21 rangi proposed dates, proposed venue, .. it doesnt need much more info than that
20:21 cait thd: did you see the link to the wiki page?
20:21 * thd looks for an example from previous years.
20:21 cait both bids are pretty detailed already
20:22 drojf and ikourmou just said they will put up some more info
20:22 bag thd you thinking of code4lib or something?
20:22 thd Maybe I should state the issue differently.
20:22 mtompset A proposed weekly schedule?
20:22 cait ?
20:23 rangi naw, you dont do anything like that until after
20:23 drojf mtompset: with blanks all along? because there is no call for papers before the vote
20:23 cait i think one nice addition would maybe be a contact email address - but that's about the only thing i am missing
20:23 rangi basically, unless you are planning to change the format of 3, 1, 3 to something else, venue, and dates are the main thing
20:23 thd We previously disqualified a prospective host and held no vote when one prospective host entered brief details in the wiki but did not link to anything more detailed and then stopped communicating.
20:24 drojf thd: have you looked at the wiki page?
20:24 drojf there are a lot of links already
20:24 rangi naw, that was when someone else entered that persons details in
20:24 cait i think the stopped communicating might have been the bit - we also had the case wher esomoene else had entered information from an email to the mailing list as bid
20:24 rangi exactly
20:24 cait i believe both bids in this case are valid
20:25 mtompset 3 out of the 4 people listed in the Philippine proposal are friends of mine on Facebook. ;)
20:25 thd Ok, I recognise that the stopped communicating and entry from a third party were the most problematic elements.
20:25 mtompset I talk with one of them regularly too. :)
20:25 thd Nevermind :)
20:25 mtompset The Philippine big is definitely valid.
20:25 mtompset ^big^bid^
20:25 ikourmou I will add this info (contact email, proposed schedule format) and some background info
20:25 cait great
20:25 rangi ikourmou: that is perfect
20:26 ikourmou we are in the proccess of migration to koha
20:26 drojf mtompset: because you are friends with them on facebook? :)
20:26 bag excellent ikourmou (best of skills to you)
20:26 cait ikourmou: cool - when will you go live?
20:26 ikourmou and another university in Thessaloniki just began
20:26 mtompset drojf: One is my colleague. :P
20:26 drojf nice
20:27 cait exciting
20:27 thd Just to remind people, in the past the first column usually had a link in the past to a more detailed proposal than could be accommodated in a simple wiki table.
20:27 ikourmou my university library is pallning to go live on the 2nd week of september
20:27 cait oh soon, good luck!
20:27 drojf awesome, good luck
20:28 cait ok, the next thing on the agenda was setting a date to start the vote?
20:29 drojf someone from the philippines around to tell something?
20:29 cait oh yes, sorry
20:29 drojf apart from facebook friends? :P
20:29 mtompset Sadly, no... it's 4:30am there.
20:29 drojf there was an issue with the location i think
20:29 drojf would be good to know how that works out before we vote
20:29 mtompset When will the vote be?
20:30 drojf we will decide that in a minute i guess
20:30 drojf or we already did, but i did not find a date. just "september"
20:30 rangi it'll be the date of the meeting in september
20:31 drojf so we should decide now a) when no new bids are accepted b) when we vote
20:31 rangi when we decide that at the end of this meeting :)
20:31 drojf we vote at the meeting?
20:31 cait we did online votes in the past
20:31 rangi i think thats a good time to start it
20:31 thd rangi: Would we not have a community wide vote?
20:31 rangi online voting for a week after that
20:32 drojf works for me
20:32 cait ah ok
20:32 cait so can we agree on that?
20:32 drojf until when do we accept new bids? right before that?
20:32 cait start the online vote at the september meeting?
20:32 bag yes +1 (agreed)
20:32 cait +1 form me too
20:32 rangi +1
20:32 mtompset +1
20:32 drojf +1
20:33 cait #agreed The voting on the bids will beginn with the date of the september general meeting
20:33 cait how long? 1 week or 2?
20:33 thd Is automated vote recording not functioning?
20:34 drojf and deadline for bidding?
20:34 cait thd: i just thought i'd keep it a bit ismpler this time
20:34 rangi cait: 1 week seems long enough for me
20:34 bag 1 week
20:34 cait ok
20:34 mtompset 1 week.
20:34 cait #vote Shall the vote be open for one week? yes,no
20:34 bag I’d say the deadline is now - but of course anyone can object
20:34 mtompset yes
20:35 cait #startvote Shall the vote be open for one week? yes,no
20:35 bag yes
20:35 huginn Begin voting on: Shall the vote be open for one week? Valid vote options are yes, no.
20:35 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:35 cait yes
20:35 mtompset #vote yes
20:35 drojf #vote yes
20:35 rangi #vote yes
20:35 thd drojf: Did we not just now agree to close bidding from the next meeting?
20:35 cait #vote yes
20:35 thd #vote yes
20:35 bag #vote yes
20:35 ikourmou #vote yes
20:35 drojf thd: i think we agreed that we start voting then, not the other thing
20:35 drojf or maybe i got confused :)
20:35 rangi nope we didnt thd, we agreed we will start voting then
20:35 cait #agreed The vote will be open for 1 week before closed
20:35 rangi bids will need to close before that
20:36 cait ok, now we can agree on when to close the time for bidding
20:36 cait how about 1 week before the meeting?
20:36 drojf bag: i think doing that without announcement is not the best option
20:36 rangi so that the voting site can be set up
20:36 cait or 2 weeks?
20:36 wahanui 2 weeks is not good nor bad, but thinking makes it so.
20:36 drojf a week from now?
20:36 cait good for me
20:36 drojf no need to wait really
20:36 rangi ok by me
20:36 bag I feel like we’ve asked for canidates for a few months now
20:36 mtompset when is the september meeting?
20:36 rangi yeah, exactly
20:36 rangi its been open for 6 months
20:36 drojf yup
20:36 cait #endvote
20:36 huginn Voted on "Shall the vote be open for one week?" Results are
20:36 huginn yes (7): cait, mtompset, bag, thd, drojf, rangi, ikourmou
20:37 cait sorry, forgot to end
20:37 rangi if you leave it to the last week .. well, you probably arent the best organiser ;)
20:37 cait #info yes (7): cait, mtompset, bag, thd, drojf, rangi, ikourmou
20:37 drojf or you are just that awesome ;)
20:37 rangi hehe
20:37 thd We have had more reminders encouraging candidates in the past but no problems of lack of candidates on this occasion.
20:38 drojf i sent a reminder not too long ago, and i think at least one before that
20:38 rangi yup
20:38 rangi there have been 3 in total
20:38 drojf if you want to host it, you don't need a lot of reminders ;)
20:38 rangi who is willing to send out an email after this meeting
20:38 thd drojf++
20:38 rangi with all the dates in it?
20:38 drojf i can do that
20:38 cait #startvote Shall we close the bidding in one week from now?
20:38 huginn Begin voting on: Shall we close the bidding in one week from now? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
20:38 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:38 rangi drojf++
20:38 drojf but probably tomorrow morning
20:38 rangi thanks
20:38 rangi thats fine
20:39 rangi #vote yes
20:39 drojf #vote yes
20:39 cait #action drojf to send out an email abou the end of the bidding process after the meeting
20:39 ikourmou #vote yes
20:39 thd #vote yes
20:39 cait #vote yes
20:39 schnydszch #infoEugene Espinoza philippines
20:39 mtompset #vote yes
20:39 pianohacker #vote yes
20:39 bag #vote yes
20:39 cait ready?
20:39 mtompset Ah, we have a Philippine proposal person: schnydszch (Eugene Espinoza)
20:40 cait #endvote
20:40 huginn Voted on "Shall we close the bidding in one week from now?" Results are
20:40 cait hm it hangs
20:40 schnydszch yes I can't connect to IRC since lastg week
20:40 cait #agreed The time to add bids for KohaCon will end in a week from now, drojf is going to send an email
20:40 drojf i see 8 yes
20:40 schnydszch I tried this lunch Rome time
20:40 schnydszch and was able to connect
20:40 cait #info 8 yes, 0 no
20:41 cait schnydszch: do you want to say something about your kohacon proposal?
20:42 schnydszch Yes the initial plan of holding it in the National Library of the Philippines seems not possible
20:42 schnydszch So we will find a venue elsewhere
20:42 schnydszch And it seems we can't contact NLP, so other koha people in the Philippines have to step up regarding our bid
20:43 mtompset I'll bug Manny about it.
20:43 schnydszch we really wanted to involve the National Library in this since they're the biggest koha user in the Phils.
20:43 schnydszch I'm also bugging other people on this, since I'm elsewhere
20:44 thd Please update the wiki when you have a new venue etc.
20:44 cait hm what should i add to the minutes?
20:45 schnydszch Yes and also bugging some people for the official site
20:45 schnydszch i mean a website
20:46 thd I suggest adding that the proposal from the Philippines is changing venues in the midst of changing venue and other details.
20:46 schnydszch so voting will be this september right?
20:46 drojf yes
20:46 cait #info venue will probably move from the national library to elsewhere - wiki page to be updated
20:46 thd Yes, starting from the next general IRC meeting date.
20:46 cait schnydszch: yes, we will set the exact date at the end of this meeting
20:47 thd cait: add Philippines to your note
20:48 ikourmou could someone please give a short explanation on the voting procedure?
20:48 cait schnydszch: maybe you can update the wiki page that it will not be national library?
20:48 cait just to avoid confusion
20:49 cait ikourmou: good question
20:49 cait schnydszch: because it states as hosting organisation, so it looks like they organize it
20:49 cait i didn't understand the difference until now i think
20:50 cait or maybe still misunderstanding
20:51 drojf ikourmou: someone will set up a website to vote. i did a limesurvey once for a vote, i think we had other systems too. it will be open for a week, everyone can vote
20:52 cait what information did we require last time?
20:52 thd cait: You identified a reason for a more detailed proposal linked from the simple wiki table. However, a column for venue could be added.
20:52 drojf i dont know. i asked for an email address when i did it
20:53 drojf and a name
20:53 cait sounds good to me
20:53 rangi yeah thats about all
20:53 ikourmou drojf: ok, and by "everyone" you mean?
20:53 rangi everyone
20:53 wahanui somebody said everyone was doin' the hot new dance the Cracked Out Kitty Tail Shiver
20:53 thd Actually, venue is probably best understood as part of the location column.
20:53 cait ikourmou: every individual person has a vote
20:53 drojf ikourmou: we will announce it to the koha mailing lists, but it is not restricted to that
20:54 ikourmou got it.
20:55 cait ok, can we agree on the voting procedure? email and name?
20:55 rangi most people are pretty good about it, we've only had one occasion in 8 years where people with no interest in koha were mobilised to vote
20:55 cait and is someone volunteering to set up the tool for voting?
20:55 rangi it's pretty easy to spot when that happens
20:56 drojf i can set something up if nobody wants to
20:56 rangi if you have time, that would be great drojf
20:56 drojf and would probably nominate one or two people to have a look
20:56 rangi sounds good
20:56 drojf well, if that limesurvey still exists. lol not used that in ages
20:57 cait #startvote Shall we let drojf set up the vote=
20:57 huginn Unable to parse vote topic and options.
20:57 bag drojf: you can ask nengard - she’s done it before
20:57 bag for help that is :)
20:57 cait #startvote Shall we let drojf set up the vote?
20:57 huginn Begin voting on: Shall we let drojf set up the vote? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
20:57 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:57 cait #yes
20:57 rangi #vote yes
20:57 bag #vote yes
20:57 cait i'd add a ! but the vote thing won't like it
20:57 thd #vote yes
20:57 drojf #vote abstain ;)
20:57 ikourmou #vote yes
20:58 mtompset #vote yes
20:58 cait #vote yes
20:58 cait #endvote
20:58 huginn Voted on "Shall we let drojf set up the vote?" Results are
20:58 drojf no cookie for huginn
20:58 cait #agreed We are going to let drojf set up the vote :)
20:59 thd drojf: You should always vote for yourself if you are not excluded by some rule.
20:59 drojf thd: i'm too shy ;)
20:59 thd :)
20:59 cait #startvote Shall the details being asked for be name and email address?
20:59 huginn Begin voting on: Shall the details being asked for be name and email address? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
20:59 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
20:59 cait i am getting the hang of that vote thing *tortures you all*
20:59 cait #yes
20:59 rangi no you arent
21:00 drojf lol
21:00 rangi you just voted wrong again :)
21:00 cait #vote yes
21:00 cait pf.
21:00 rangi #vote yes
21:00 drojf #vote yes
21:00 thd The understanding is still that the votes submitted are secret except to those conducting the poll.
21:00 mtompset #vote yes
21:00 thd #vote yes
21:00 cait thd: yes i think so
21:00 drojf thd: yes
21:01 cait #info votes are submitted secret except to those conducting the poll
21:01 cait #endvote
21:01 huginn Voted on "Shall the details being asked for be name and email address?" Results are
21:01 cait #agreed the vote will ask for name and email
21:01 cait ok, i think we got it all?
21:01 cait moving on?
21:02 bag yup move on
21:03 cait #topic Fundraising
21:03 * cait hands the hat to bag
21:03 bag ok
21:03 bag Next steps in Fundraising
21:03 bag first a vote
21:04 bag topic is Voting on additional candidates (see Fundraising) for the Fund Raising Committee.
21:04 bag So we voted in the general meeting and then afterwards paul_p added his name to the committee
21:04 bag we want to vote on if that is ok with everyone for him to join the committee
21:04 bag cait can you handle the vote process?
21:04 bag I’ll answer questions
21:05 mtompset Can we recap who is on the committee?
21:05 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Fundraising
21:05 bag gmcharlt, BobB, bag, Romana
21:05 bag and then vote on Paul_P acceptance
21:06 cait #startvote Are we ok with Paul Poulain joining the fundraising committee?
21:06 huginn Begin voting on: Are we ok with Paul Poulain joining the fundraising committee? Valid vote options are Yes, No.
21:06 huginn Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts.
21:06 mtompset Okay, so we are just voting on Paul, because he was added after vote?
21:06 cait yes
21:06 cait to get things tidied up
21:06 mtompset #vote yes
21:06 bag (not voting since I am on committee)
21:06 cait we already elected the other people
21:06 schnydszch #vote yes
21:06 thd #vote yes
21:06 ikourmou #vote yes
21:06 schnydszch for Paul Poulain
21:07 cait #endvote
21:07 huginn Voted on "Are we ok with Paul Poulain joining the fundraising committee?" Results are
21:07 cait #agreed Paul Poulain was elected to join the Fundraising committee
21:08 bag Cool - ok I’m taking over again cait
21:08 bag cait++
21:08 bag thanks
21:08 cait thx
21:08 bag here’s an update (few lines pasted in)
21:08 bag Another committee meeting coming soon (talk about raising money, grants, and next steps)
21:08 bag Donate button added to main page of koha-community.org (In my opinion (will bring to the committee and the mailing list) too low on page - should be up top and not causing people to have to "search" for it)
21:08 bag More volunteers needed on committee
21:08 bag Establish rules for grants/invoicing committee
21:09 cait #link http://koha-community.org/
21:09 drojf i don't see anything
21:09 mtompset bottom right.
21:09 wahanui bottom right is bridgton in maine
21:09 cait scroll down
21:09 mtompset you may need to scroll.
21:09 bag thanks for backup my point drojf :D
21:09 bag heh
21:10 bag s/backup/backing up
21:10 drojf no i do not allow third party stuff like loading things from paypal
21:10 drojf :P
21:10 thd bag: There is still a basic problem that most everyone currently on the committee should by the conflict of interest rules recuse themselves in many circumstances leaving no quorum.
21:10 cait but i don't know hwer to put it nicely
21:10 cait i mean ... at the top
21:10 bag ah there you go drojf - that’s why
21:10 drojf can we have a non-paypal-servery button?
21:11 bag drojf: provide the code and we can
21:11 drojf ok i will have a look
21:11 bag thd: the committee established so far is only to bring money into the fund - not spend it
21:12 cait #info donate button was added to the kc website (scroll down)
21:12 thd bag: As long as the issue is recognised and corrected in due course if it could not be corrected in advance to give more confidence.
21:12 cait #info committee to meet soon again
21:13 bag and thd if the committee once those rules are set - decides to hire a third party - let’s say equinox to do some sign-off/testing - then only those who work for equinox should remove themselves
21:13 Francesca good moning
21:13 Francesca *morning
21:14 thd bag: Certainly, however, the appearance would be better if more librarians would be involved.
21:14 bag thd agreed - hence we need more volunteers - they just aren’t coming
21:14 cait yeah.. but i think that's the point of asking for more members :)
21:14 bag do you have a suggestion for recruiting some of the librarians?
21:14 bag can you do that ?
21:14 bag please :D
21:14 bag I’ll send cookies and chocoloate
21:15 cait mybe indeed we could ask people to also suggest someone they think would be a good fit...?
21:15 Francesca ohh cookies and chocolate
21:15 drojf "You can build your own Button Text Links from scratch or take advantage of the Online Button Creator within your PayPal Account.  After generating the button code online, select the "Email" tab to view the Text Link Code."
21:15 drojf looks like someone with access to the account has to do it, but its possible
21:15 cait and then ask them of course
21:15 bag I think we need suggestions too cait…
21:16 thd The problem may be in the US a need for a US based funding organisation which is an issue which I had lost time to address for IRS non-profit status.
21:16 cait #info We are looking for more volunteers for the fundraising committee
21:16 bag cool drojf can you send me information. THT has control of the bank account - so I’ll talk to them
21:16 drojf i will send you an email tomorrow
21:17 bag #info and any suggestion to the committee on how to make it so more librarians are interested in joining :)
21:17 drojf so many things to send tomorrow heh
21:17 bag also an update. I think we are finally almost past the legal stuff - where we finally get to have some fun and move forward with fund raising
21:18 bag bbias
21:18 bag back
21:18 bag that’s really it from me cait
21:18 cait ok
21:18 cait anything that should go in th eminutes?
21:18 bag if there are no more questions - I think we can move on
21:19 cait ok
21:19 cait #topic Support vendor listing
21:19 cait i tihnkwe had agreed to have more discussion during this meeting
21:19 wizzyrea #info Liz Rea, Catalyst IT
21:19 cait and a helpful soul set up a wiki page for proposed changes/solutions:
21:19 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Paid_support_providers_list_RFC
21:19 cait but sadly, it#s empty
21:19 wizzyrea heh
21:20 cait i'd like to postpone this topic as this meeting is a bit long already
21:20 drojf +1
21:20 rangi everyone has opinions, no one wants to do anything
21:20 rangi postpone for ever as far as im concerned
21:20 cait i think we got some more company pages in the wiki now
21:20 cait but nothing has been communicated
21:21 cait #info Discussion about Paid support providers list to be postponed - please add to the RFC if you want things to move
21:21 thd rangi++
21:21 cait #topic GBSD
21:21 cait the plan is sitll on - i haven't send an email yt
21:21 cait i hope to get to that this week
21:21 cait there isa first draft of a wiki page available
21:22 cait #link http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/2015-09-03_Global_bug_squashing_day
21:22 cait i want to ask for ideas, wish list item etc. and aso for people to host tutorials
21:22 cait or help testing features they developed... whatever you can think of
21:22 cait there is a new section on the page "Specials for this GBSD"
21:22 cait please add yourself there if you plan to contribute something to the event!
21:23 cait i will probably weed the links above a bit to make the page a bit more compact
21:23 cait moving on?
21:24 cait #topic Actions from last meeting
21:24 cait khall volunteered to run a virtual bootcamp during GBSD (will remind him :) )
21:24 cait and i will send the promised email soon
21:24 cait #link http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/general_irc_meeting_8_july_2015.2015-07-08-10.00.html
21:25 cait #topic Agree on date for next meeting
21:25 cait early september?
21:25 cait first wednesday? that would be the 2nd
21:25 thd 9 Sep.
21:26 drojf i think 9 does not work for m
21:26 drojf me
21:26 drojf (you can still have a meeting then)
21:27 schnydszch sept 9 please
21:27 cait hm i thought we had agreed to stick to the first week
21:27 thd I think that concluding a vote a week from 9 would be better for having people back from holidays etc.
21:27 cait ok
21:28 cait drojf: which time?
21:28 wahanui which time is probably better for my area? 10:00+0000 or 22:00+0000?
21:28 rangi what holidays
21:28 thd Also a specific request from one candidate should be given attention.
21:28 cait drojf: you know it's your job to tell me the time of the next meeting :)
21:28 drojf aren#t there always holidays somewhere?
21:28 thd 10 UTC
21:29 schnydszch 22:00+0000 is what time in the phils?
21:29 schnydszch 10UTC?
21:29 wahanui it has been said that 10UTC is what we've decided = 18UTC (today) -8
21:29 Francesca @wunder wlg
21:29 huginn Francesca: The current temperature in Wellington, New Zealand is 8.0°C (9:00 AM NZST on August 06, 2015). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 93%. Dew Point: 7.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.44 in 997 hPa (Falling).
21:29 thd drojf: Yes, however, many academic calendars widely used would encourage a later rather than earlier time in the month
21:30 drojf citation needed
21:30 cait ok, so 10 UTC on september 9?
21:31 cait don't make me start the votebot again
21:31 mtompset http://www.ocdsb.ca/calendar/Pages/Proposed-calendar---2015-2016.aspx
21:31 mtompset September 8 is firstday of school, so people will be back from holidays, drojf.
21:31 thd drojf: Sorry, I only have anecdotal information about the range of academic calendars in the US running from times starting in late August to mid September.
21:32 cait #agreed 9 September, 10 UTC
21:33 cait #endmeeting
21:33 huginn Meeting ended Wed Aug 5 21:33:06 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
21:33 huginn Minutes: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/general_irc_meeting_5_august_2015.2015-08-05-20.03.html
21:33 huginn Minutes (text): http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/general_irc_meeting_5_august_2015.2015-08-05-20.03.txt
21:33 huginn Log: http://meetings.koha-community.org/2015/general_irc_meeting_5_august_2015.2015-08-05-20.03.log.html
21:33 bag thanks cait!
21:33 drojf cait++
21:33 mtompset cait++
21:33 cait thx everyone for attending
21:35 drojf i hope someone took notes of all the stuff i have to send tomorrow :O
21:35 drojf :P
21:37 cait i forgot the action about the button
21:37 wizzyrea oh yes someone tell me
21:37 wizzyrea what needs doing there
21:38 wizzyrea also I'm sorry I missed the section on that because I have opinions, and I feel like I need something to link to that explains wtf the money goes for.
21:38 drojf wizzyrea: i will send an email to bag telling him what to tell THT to generate a code that they will probably send back to bag and he can send it to you. i think ;)
21:38 wizzyrea O.o
21:38 thd bag: Please understand that if I had money to give to Koha generally giving it too a group largely consisting of Koha vendors would probably best ensure that it would be spent wisely and frugally. However, such an arrangement is obviously problematic.
21:38 wizzyrea that seems convoluted.
21:39 bag huh
21:39 thd bag: For which was huh?
21:40 bag I don’t understand you thd
21:40 bag I’ve got to run
21:40 bag wizzyrea: I’ll catch up with you
21:40 bag we can talk and figure out what’s best for language
21:41 wizzyrea ok great because I was winging it and it's not my thing :P
21:41 bag perhaps wizzyrea we can have something for people to vote on next meeting
21:41 bag but wizzyrea it’s awesome so far - so thanks much
21:42 wizzyrea ...for the record I am not in favour of a vote.
21:42 wizzyrea for that.
21:44 thd bag: I merely meant that a vendor dominated committee may spend funding more wisely than a librarian dominated one. However, the appearance will still be a problem.
21:53 wizzyrea My concern is what work comes out of it. I worry that it won't be very forward thinking, and will lead to "implement this like horizon did it" - that's the nicest way I can say that I think.
21:54 * Francesca waves at wizzyrea
21:54 wizzyrea hi Francesca
21:54 Francesca how goes it?
21:55 wizzyrea ah alright, busy busy
21:59 Francesca I can tell
22:16 drojf good night #koha
22:23 eythian hi
22:23 wahanui hi, eythian
22:23 Francesca hi eythian
22:25 eythian oh, there was a meeting. I totally didn't know.
22:35 wizzyrea lulz, labels is a "tool" but it's permission is for "catalogue"
22:35 wizzyrea its*
22:40 eythian "tools" is a dumping ground for all manner of crap that could probably be better organised.
22:41 wizzyrea yeah, I'm poking around in the labels interface, removing the necessity of a billion clicks.
22:41 wizzyrea to do stuff.
22:41 wizzyrea or that's what I was doing yesterday evening.
22:41 wizzyrea with quite good success, I think.
22:41 cait hm but we do have a label permission...
22:42 cait i should not ask and just go to bed
22:42 cait :)
22:42 cait night all
22:42 wahanui goodnight cait. You'll be back.
22:42 wizzyrea :)
22:42 wizzyrea don't dig too deep, you might get lost in there.
22:42 cait yeah :)
23:58 eythian http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/local-papers/the-wellingtonian/70727559/thousands-of-years-history-kept-in-wellington-archives