Time  Nick        Message
00:25 * liz       waves
00:27 indradg     hi liz
00:29 pianohacker bug ###################11559
00:29 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11559 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, jweaver, Needs Signoff , Professional cataloger's interface
00:29 pianohacker hahaha I was reading that regex right
01:50 dcook       I keep thinking that the inventory should mark items as missing if they're not on loan and not scanned...
01:50 dcook       Or that it's an option to mark them missing
01:50 * dcook     swears he's used inventory systems like that before
01:51 dcook       I mean... it would have to be a bit more complicated
01:51 dcook       But basically if the system thinks it's on the shelf and the inventory says it's not on the shelf... it should be marked missing, no?
01:51 * dcook     sometimes wish that he had an unlimited supply of time and money to pursue his ideas
01:51 dcook       That may or may not be the basis of "The American Dream" of course...
02:00 dcook       Hmm seems like this is already in the commments of http://bywatersolutions.com/2014/05/29/inventory-koha/
02:02 dcook       "Finding missing items after inventory. After you’ve run the inventory tool how do you find the items that are missing? Well you run a report to show you everything that hasn’t been seen since a specific date."
02:02 dcook       That seems a bit suboptimal :/
02:03 * dcook     will see if some library might want to sponsor development of a "mark as missing" inventory feature...
02:04 indradg     dcook +1
02:05 dcook       I figure a lot of libraries must not do inventories?
02:05 dcook       I suppose I've done a lot of shelf-reading over the years which isn't quite the same thing...
02:06 dcook       After moving three branches into a single branch, I organized an inventory of a few of the combined collections. It was sooo helpful.
02:06 * dcook     goes back to email and patch writing
02:08 dcook       Hmm... it looks like maybe this was actually part of Koha in the past?
02:09 dcook       Or maybe this is a Liblime thing?
02:23 dcook       Or maybe it does it automatically?
02:24 dcook       "# set "missing" flags for all items with a datelastseen (dls) before the choosen datelastseen (cdls)"
02:24 * dcook     doesn't recall this working in practice...
02:33 * dcook     would love to know the difference between "Item should have been scanned" and "Missing"
02:34 dcook       Which in this case doesn't mean item is already missing..
02:34 eythian     one is data, the other is data with interpretation applied.
02:38 dcook       That makes sense to me
02:38 dcook       Rather than being two separate statuses :S
02:39 dcook       Awesome thing:
02:39 dcook       # set "missing" flags for all items with a datelastseen (dls) before the choosen datelastseen (cdls)
02:39 dcook       in actuality, the cdls is the item's datelastseen, and dls is the inventory's datetime
02:40 dcook       datelastseen rather
02:40 dcook       O_o
02:41 dcook       Hmm actually that's not right either...
02:42 dcook       Hmm, pretty sure this is broken
02:43 eythian     wahanui: cheating is http://i.imgur.com/wTJcSmI.gifv
02:43 wahanui     OK, eythian.
02:43 dcook       Huh...
02:44 dcook       When you use "foreach my $item (@items)", it looks like $_ is set to null?
02:44 eythian     hmm
02:44 dcook       I mean.. I don't know why you'd be using $_ in that context, but it's interesting..
02:44 dcook       Also, lol, eythian.
02:44 eythian     I don't think I've ever thought about that case.
02:46 dcook       Oh boy...
02:46 dcook       And sure enough... when I fix that problem, inventory goes nuts
02:46 dcook       Because, as eythian has pointed out, "Item missing" and "Item should have been scanned" is pretty much the same thing
02:47 eythian     I dunno
02:47 eythian     one is a fact, one is semantic
02:47 dcook       Oh, I'd agree that it should be "Item should have been scanned"
02:47 dcook       Item missing has a few more assumptions in there which could be variable
02:48 dcook       Actually, you'd want to run it through a fair number of conditions before saying "it's missing" I guess
02:51 dcook       I wonder if people don't use the inventory tool because it's not very useful
02:51 dcook       Or they don't use it because they don't do inventories very often
02:55 rangi       the latter
02:55 wahanui     i guess the latter is already done
02:55 dcook       I'm inclined to agree
02:55 rangi       its a really really expensive time consuming exercise for not a huge amount of gain
02:55 dcook       Well, depending on the number of items you're doing, I suppose
02:55 dcook       That's probably the case for the entire collection
02:55 dcook       It could be useful for individual collections though
02:56 dcook       Although perhaps even then..
02:56 dcook       I think certain libraries have to do it for the purposes of auditing
02:57 dcook       Oh well. I'll add my little bit, file some bugs, and then leave it alone I suppose.
02:57 rangi       its pretty trivial to add a button to mark things missing, instead of just updating the datelastseen
02:58 rangi       but they might not be missing, so it would have to be optional
02:59 dcook       Yep
02:59 dcook       I'm trying to think if there would be a case where something wouldn't be scanned but not be  missing
02:59 dcook       (and not on loan)
03:00 dcook       I suppose you wouldn't want to do that option if you were doing an inventory gradually
03:00 rangi       yep
03:00 dcook       Although doing an inventory gradually would be a bit error fraught..
03:00 dcook       Well maybe not error fraught
03:00 dcook       Just not comprehensive
03:01 dcook       But if you just care about being mostly accurate..
03:01 rangi       or if its on the mending desk
03:01 dcook       Ah, that's what I was thinking
03:01 dcook       Or if it was withdrawn or something like that
03:01 rangi       libraries do a bunch of odd things
03:01 dcook       You'd probably want to check against X number of conditions
03:01 dcook       That they do
03:08 dcook       Anyway, time for me to pickup MCU films...
03:09 dcook       (Not from my library as they charge $2 per reservation for DVDs that are scratched and covered in goo...or missing all together :( )
03:23 rangi       yeah, doing it wrong
03:46 indradg     dcook: not scanned, not missing and not on loan cases I have seen when libraries have sent out items for binding or preservation purpose but not updated 'location' status of the items
03:47 indradg     that is bad process... but that happens
03:53 dcook       Although in that case, they should hopefully check it in when it comes back in
03:56 dcook       Yikes... when did we get a DateTime::Format::MySQL module? :S
03:56 dcook       And why is it in C4::Items..
03:57 rangi       why do we use it?
04:02 rangi       it's been a dependency since april 2012
04:07 eythian     should have a thing that periodically goes through and finds any dependencies that are no longer used anywhere, I'd expect there to be a few.
04:23 dcook       I really need to change my HexChat alerts...
04:24 dcook       rangi: I'm not sure why we use it. I just noticed it at the top of the module
04:24 dcook       eythian: I think you're right
04:24 dcook       After gmcharlt removed POE, I actually thought about some uses for it, but... it was probably for the best :p
04:25 rangi       seems to me to be decent module to use
04:25 rangi       better than trying to format dates by hand
04:26 rangi       seeings as we pass around datetime objects most of the place
04:26 dcook       I thought we were trying to move away from MySQL dependency overall?
04:26 dcook       I could still see using it though... although probably in Koha::DateUtils rather than C4::Items
04:34 dcook       Mmm, interesting
04:34 dcook       Looks like we use it in C4::Items::ModItem()
04:34 dcook       Although in what way I have no idea..
04:37 dcook       $item->{ $field . '_on' } =
04:37 dcook       DateTime::Format::MySQL->format_datetime( dt_from_string() );
04:38 dcook       git blame time..
04:38 rangi       its used in lots of places
04:39 dcook       rangi: Which?
04:39 wahanui     Which is not allowed in MARC.
04:39 dcook       Huh... Bug 9673
04:39 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=9673 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, kyle, CLOSED FIXED, Track when items are marked as lost or withdrawn
04:39 dcook       Apparently there are supposed to be "itemlost_on" and "withdrawn_on" columns in the items table?
04:40 eythian     news to me
04:40 dcook       me too
04:41 dcook       I wonder if that got reverted later..
04:42 dcook       Nope... still in kohastructure.sql
04:43 dcook       Hmm, looks like it's in the updatedatabase.pl for 3.15
04:43 dcook       I suppose I've only done a few installs over 3.14
04:43 dcook       Hmm... but this is a dev database which should've been upgraded..
04:44 dcook       Probably something weird I did
05:01 eythian     https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=786909
05:02 rangi       yeah thats a nasty one
05:03 dcook       Yikes..
05:04 rangi       i saw it on the oss-sec list
05:08 dcook       I didn't know code.google.com was a thing anymore O_o
05:08 dcook       I thought they had retired it... or perhaps they're still in the process?
05:14 indradg     @later tell alex_a I've reset bug 14155 back to "Needs signoff". Pls let me know if you differ about the fixes.
05:14 huginn      indradg: The operation succeeded.
05:31 dcook       Mmm just churning up the bugs with inventory.pl...
05:38 dcook       Ah, Fridolin already reported bug 12913
05:38 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12913 major, P5 - low, ---, fridolyn.somers, Failed QA , wrong inventory results when notforloan filter is not used
05:39 dcook       Oh wait, that's not the bug I wanted... that's just another one I noticed..
05:46 dcook       Wth...
05:49 dcook       Oh wait that makes sense. Whew..
05:49 * dcook     loves when things make sense
05:58 dcook       Unlike the rest of this inventory script... O_O
06:08 * magnuse   waves
06:12 dcook       Yo magnuse :)
06:13 magnuse     yo yo yo wassup in da house!
06:16 magnuse     huh? http://www.cni.org/topics/assessment/bibflow-a-roadmap-for-library-linked-data-implemenation/ "[someone] has demoed it with @kohails as part of the @BIBFLOW project"
06:17 dcook       But I'm not in da house :p
06:18 dcook       I also find that confusing
06:22 * magnuse   is sceptical of bibframe
06:25 sophie_m    hi #koha
06:29 * dcook     is skeptical of most things
06:33 magnuse     bonjour sophie_m
06:33 magnuse     @wunder boo
06:33 huginn      magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 8.0°C (8:20 AM CEST on June 17, 2015). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 76%. Dew Point: 4.0°C. Windchill: 5.0°C. Pressure: 29.92 in 1013 hPa (Steady).
06:33 magnuse     @wunder marseille
06:33 huginn      magnuse: The current temperature in Saint Victoret, France is 22.2°C (8:32 AM CEST on June 17, 2015). Conditions: Scattered Clouds. Humidity: 63%. Dew Point: 15.0°C. Pressure: 30.00 in 1016 hPa (Rising).
06:33 magnuse     whoa!
06:34 sophie_m    hello magnuse, summer is here :)
06:37 * dcook     wants to fix all the inventory problems but now has data to clean... boo...
06:37 dcook       @wunder syd
06:37 huginn      dcook: The current temperature in Sydney, New South Wales is 17.0°C (4:00 PM AEST on June 17, 2015). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 82%. Dew Point: 14.0°C. Pressure: 29.80 in 1009 hPa (Steady).
06:37 dcook       sophie_m: Next week is the middle of winter, I think? ;)
06:38 sophie_m    dcook: your winter does not seems so chilly, it suits me :)
06:39 dcook       Feel free to come and visit anytime :)
06:40 magnuse     sophie_m: feel free to send some summer to the far north :-)
06:40 sophie_m    :)
06:41 sophie_m    thanks dcook, I'm thinking about it when children will leave home
06:42 dcook       :D
06:43 dcook       I think the same about visiting France again when children leave home
06:43 dcook       Of course, I haven't had the children yet...
06:43 dcook       So it's a while away :p
06:47 reiveune    hello
06:47 wahanui     bonjour, reiveune
06:47 sophie_m    dcook: my elder will probably leave in september
06:47 drojf       morning #koha
06:47 * dcook     waves to the new arrivals
06:48 dcook       sophie_m: So not too long until a trip to Australia? :)
06:48 sophie_m    the yougest is only 13...
06:49 dcook       That's not too long!
06:49 dcook       My youngest is 0, so that's quite the wait ;)
06:50 sophie_m    come before children dcook ;)
06:51 dcook       Well, I went to France once back in 2010. That was a good time!
06:51 dcook       Actually, if I hadn't moved to Australia, I probably would've tried to spend more time in France.
06:51 dcook       I did a year long immersive French course in 2009-2010, so I was keen to spend some serious time speaking French.
06:51 dcook       But then there was my MLIS from 2011-2012 and Australia in 2012...
06:52 dcook       Now I'm stuck in a beautiful corner of the world :p
06:52 sophie_m    :)
07:10 Viktor      khall++ for being (more) clever (than me) in bug 7843
07:10 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7843 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, viktor.sarge, Pushed to Master , Add RSS feeds for OPAC news
07:11 alex_a      bonjour
07:12 dcook       I keep saying I'll make a RSS feed for Opac lists one of these days...
07:12 dcook       salut alex_a, hey cait :)
07:12 dcook       also hey Viktor ;)
07:12 Viktor      Hey dcook :)
07:12 cait        hi all
07:12 cait        hi Viktor :)
07:13 alex_a      salut dcook
07:13 Viktor      We toyed with the notion of adding an "RSS reader" into the Opac so you don't have to use external RSS to keep an eye on interesting things in Opac.
07:14 dcook       Wouldn't that defeat the purpose a bit?
07:14 Viktor      Some sort of "watch this" as an alternative to RSS streams.
07:14 dcook       I suppose it would still be curated though..
07:14 Viktor      And hi cait :)
07:14 dcook       Yeah
07:14 dcook       That's neat
07:15 Viktor      We'd have to cache things I guess since the RSS might crop things but it would be the same content for all users so it would not kill the db
07:16 Viktor      RSS for lists would be good.
07:16 Viktor      Also dynamic lists would be good.
07:16 dcook       Dynamic lists?
07:17 Viktor      Sort of "Pick these five records for the list + all the items that meet this search criteria".
07:17 cait        hmm
07:17 dcook       I'm not sure I understand :/
07:17 cait        I think you could do that with a saved search link maybe?
07:17 Viktor      Exactly.
07:18 Viktor      But I don't think it's possible today(?)
07:18 Viktor      Or I just missed it. That happens :)
07:18 cait        i thin owen had a blog post about how to style such links to be buttons
07:19 Viktor      Some TinyMCE-content connected to a list would be good also :) To provide context.
07:19 cait        if you wanted it to show in the lists, maybe it would not be so hard if you just could add a search link
07:19 cait        i thik there is a bug about comments for list items somewhere
07:19 cait        we have also been asked about that
07:20 Viktor      cait: Yes it's certainly not hard to make your own button. But adding it to the official list drop down would require jQuery :/
07:21 Viktor      cait: Adding TinyMCE content all over the place would not be hard (left/right coulmns are other candidates) but where to store it in the db requires some thought.
07:21 cait        because of multi-langual?
07:23 Viktor      cait: Thats another thing I guess :) But currently TinyMCE lives in opac_news and that's no good naming for expanding. The table could well store it but to be thorough we should either rename or add another general purpose "HTML blob stuff from the editor"-table. Both seem no fun :)
07:23 mtj         hey peeps, can someone give me a JQ slap here...
07:24 mtj         https://jsfiddle.net/2yaz1LLs/
07:24 mtj         why is the contains('zzz') matching?
07:25 cait        hm not sure it needs another table
07:25 cait        we also have html prefs
07:25 cait        the tiny mce is just a little helper to create/edit html
07:26 cait        and we have an editor in the branches too - for the opac info
07:26 cait        mtj: i think it doens't show
07:26 cait        ah
07:26 cait        you want .size > 0 or something
07:27 dcook       .length is what I usually use
07:27 cait        dcook:  is right :)
07:27 dcook       $( "div:contains('zzz')" ).length should do the trick, I think?
07:27 cait        i was going to look it up
07:27 mtj         https://api.jquery.com/contains-selector/
07:28 cait        if ($("#author").length) { is what i have in one of mine - looks right :)
07:28 mtj         ..so theres a working example of conatins() ^
07:28 cait        the problem is that the if is true
07:28 cait        it doesn't really match something
07:28 cait        but it's not false either
07:29 dcook       Ahh yeah I read that wrong
07:29 alex_a      indradg: hello. Thank you for the followup on BZ 14155 ! I'll review this later today
07:29 dcook       $( "div:contains('zzz')" ) should always return true I expect
07:29 Viktor      cait: True. TinyMCE is not relevant in itself. I'd rather not add tables on a whim. But "opac_news" seem dedicated to the purpose of news.
07:29 dcook       Even if it matches nothing
07:30 cait        Viktor: hm yeah, might be cleaner to have it separate - but similar maybe
07:30 dcook       And $( "div" ).css will highlight everything
07:30 dcook       Err underline
07:30 cait        i think if you have $(' div ') it's a jquery Object thing
07:30 dcook       ^yep
07:30 cait        the problem is context i guess?
07:31 cait        mtj: did we properly confuse you? :)
07:31 dcook       mtj: Basically, your Javascript doesn't make sense :)
07:31 dcook       And on that note, I'm going to leave before I stay any later
07:31 dcook       Night all
07:31 wahanui     goodnight dcook. You'll be back.
07:31 mtj         here is basically what im trying to do...
07:31 mtj         if (  $(.itype:contains(‘secret item’)”)  ) {
07:31 mtj         (".shelvingloc").hide();
07:31 mtj         }
07:32 cait        mtj: i think you are also missing the trigger
07:32 wahanui     okay, cait.
07:32 mtj         ..on the opac-details page
07:33 cait        $(document).ready(function { $('div:contains("zzz")').css('text-decoration','underline'); }); should be enough - you don't need the if
07:34 Viktor      Ah - the if will always be true :)
07:34 cait        yep
07:34 cait        but as he does to work on the object anyway we don't need the if
07:34 cait        if there is an element contianing zzz now it will match and apply the css property to the diff
07:35 cait        I can recommend the code academy jquery course  - it's quite fun
07:35 mtj         hmm,  so how to do an 'if' with a JQ object then ?
07:35 cait        mtj: if you need one you can do .length
07:35 cait        that will be the check for the existance
07:36 cait        but in your snippet it would not be necessary
07:36 mtj         hmm, ok  length.. thanks cait
07:36 cait        [off] you can see some here in the source code: https://hshl.bsz-bw.de/
07:37 mtj         is there a better way to write this ...?
07:37 mtj         if (  $(.itype:contains(‘secret item’)”)  ) {
07:37 mtj         (".shelvingloc").hide();
07:37 mtj         }
07:37 cait        you don't need an if
07:38 cait        hm ok
07:38 cait        yes sorry you can do that with an if
07:38 cait        but add ").length
07:38 mtj         yep, gotch
07:38 mtj         if (  $(.itype:contains(‘secret item’).length  ”)  ) {
07:38 mtj         (".shelvingloc").hide();
07:38 mtj         }
07:39 cait        hm not quite
07:39 cait        (  $(".itype:contains(‘secret item’)").length   )
07:40 cait        i think
07:40 mtj         yes, of course
07:40 mtj         i think ive offically hit stupido'clock here
07:41 cait        time to sleep then? :)
07:42 mtj         naw, probably a break cait
07:42 mtj         hmm, doesnt seem to work..
07:42 mtj         https://jsfiddle.net/2yaz1LLs/1/
07:42 cait        you are missing a )
07:43 cait        after the closing "
07:43 cait        and remove the one after length
07:45 mtj         sheesh, sorry cait :0)
07:45 cait        get a break! ;)
07:45 mtj         some days huh..
07:46 mtj         i havent been doing much jq lately, huh
07:47 * mtj       pastes that example somewhere safe
07:48 mtj         i still struggle to 'parse' jquery wth my eyes... i often find it difficult to spot typos
07:52 * magnuse   waves at mtj
07:55 mtj         hey magnuse :)
08:01 mtj         whew, i got that JQ sorted
08:03 mtj         ...i have just recently bumped into that lenght/size situation, too
08:03 mtj         length even
08:20 Viktor      Public reports giving different results (correct from a few days ago vs. todays correct results) when using staff / opac URLs to access them - anyone seen this before?
08:26 indradg     cait: when you tested the specific library notice deletion, was it an email notice?
08:32 magnuse     Viktor: that sounds like a bug
08:43 cait        indradg: i think so - but not entirely sure
08:43 cait        indradg: but i was remembering that patch - maybe it fixed it?
08:43 indradg     yep possible bug 14206
08:43 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14206 normal, P5 - low, ---, indradg, Pushed to Stable , notices using non email templates can't be deleted from the staff client
08:50 indradg     hi magnuse, mtj, Viktor
08:50 Viktor      Hi indradg!
08:51 Viktor      magnuse: I thought this might be a bug (or perhaps some caching or cronjob issue that's not accessible from the report itself). But werid and annoying :)
08:52 Viktor      magnuse: We looked into it a bit since we want to use reports for visualizations in the future. xarragon fooled around with things yesterday. Will se if he comes up with something.
08:53 cait        Viktor: hm sounds weird - can only imagine caching to be the problem
09:00 Viktor      cait: Thought it was the proxy we used but turned out to be Koha. Also we get the login page for public reports in some cases (using curl or some cases of proxy for example)
09:01 cait        hm
09:01 cait        we haven't done much with the reports so far - but i know catalyst does a lot
09:01 cait        maybe you coudl check with rangi
09:18 Viktor      cait: Thanks! I'll check with him if weirdness continues.
10:17 mtj         hey thanks for the code academy tip cait, i'm gonna check it out :0)
10:23 cait        mtj: sure - I picked up osme new things and it was fun so far
10:39 mtj         peeps, is it possible to display cost/price info for items in opac-details.pl page?
10:39 cait        mtj: not currently
10:39 cait        the table is harcoded
10:39 cait        if they bought it in acq, the acqdetailstab might help
10:40 cait        lunch time bbl
10:40 mtj         cool, thanks cait - just confirming that
11:22 magnuse     ooh ptfs europe have squashed all the ill commits into one - https://github.com/PTFS-Europe/koha/commits/3.20.01.ill
11:23 magnuse     i wonder if that means they are getting ready to submit it? ashimema?
11:58 tcohen      morning
12:00 cait        morning tcohen
12:03 magnuse     ¡hola tcohen!
12:04 mtj         has anyone seen problems with koha-start/stop/restart-zebra lately?
12:05 mtj         the daemon process seems to be unable to detect a daemon/zebrasrv is already running
12:05 indradg     morning tcohen
12:06 mtj         i searched for a BZ, but could not find one
12:07 cait        not aware of a problem, sorry
12:07 alex_a      cait: I'm sorry, don't understand what you mean by "record level + item level" or "item level" hold (my_english--) :(
12:07 alex_a      about bz 7710 cait
12:07 pastebot    "mtj" at pasted "zebra" (7 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/143
12:07 cait        a record level would be one  for the 'next available item of the record'
12:07 cait        an item level hold would be for a specific item
12:08 cait        i think having record level + item level for one patron on the same record doesn't make sense
12:08 magnuse     mtj: yes, i have been seeing that
12:08 magnuse     and eythian too, i think
12:09 magnuse     well, i think that is what i am seeing
12:09 cait        alex_a: I haven't tested the current patch - but my feeling is that 'just' a pref and it applying to ALL records in the database is not really helpful - I feel like there is something missing
12:09 cait        to make this useful
12:09 cait        but imight have misunderstood - sorry if i have
12:09 cait        bug 7710
12:09 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7710 new feature, P5 - low, ---, alex.arnaud, In Discussion , multiple holds per title
12:09 magnuse     mtj: i can do koha-restart-zebra, and then it says "zebra appears not to be running. starting zebra" then if i run koha-restart-zebra again, it says the exact same thing
12:10 pastebot    "mtj" at pasted "zebra2" (28 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/144
12:10 cait        i think i am in favour of an issuing rule - then you could combine it with the other hold options we have
12:10 alex_a      cait: May be we could have record level + item level + enumchron level ?
12:10 alex_a      cait: May be we could have ONLY
12:11 mtj         magnuse:  see my 2nd paste ^
12:11 cait        alex_a: sorry, don't understand yet, can you explain?
12:12 mtj         seems 'daemon --name=xxx-koha-zebra  --running'  incorrectly returns 1, not 0?
12:12 alex_a      cait: i mean that we could only allow multiple hold on items (of the same record) with different enumchron values ?
12:13 mtj         magnuse: aah, oops... i had a typo in my command
12:14 cait        alex_a: that would be an option - it's also how it was initially described
12:14 cait        it would be good to get some of the librarians to comment too
12:14 pastebot    "mtj" at pasted "zebra3" (21 lines) at http://paste.koha-community.org/145
12:14 cait        libraries i mean
12:15 cait        but we still need to decide what to do if there is a record level AND an item level hold - which i think doesn't make sense
12:15 cait        could we prevent that?
12:15 cait        so say if someone has a record level hold and tries to place item level we say: you already have a hold for the next item, if you want a specific item, place cancel it first?
12:15 cait        so that we avoid the double up from the beginning
12:17 alex_a      i agree that place a record level hold + an item level hold doesn't make sense at all
12:17 magnuse     mtj: my brain is refusing to parse shellscript right now... do a patch?
12:18 alex_a      cait: ok i understand now
12:18 alex_a      \o/
12:18 alex_a      thx
12:18 mtj         i havent clicked to a fix yet magnuse :/
12:19 cait        alex_a: i was hoping nick or someone else would also comment - to see what people need most there
12:19 cait        holds are... holds.
12:20 cait        complicated
12:20 wahanui     complicated is far too mild a term to describe Search.pm.
12:20 alex_a      cait: i agree. I'll put this bz in disussion
12:20 cait        i don't want to block it - but before putting a lot of work into it we shoudl agree how it should work
12:20 cait        i guess
12:22 magnuse     huh, i try to import a patron csv with the columns "firstname, surname, address, categorycode, dateofbirth, branchcode", and i get "Cardnumber is not a valid cardnumber" for all of them. shouldn't it be possible to enter patrons without cardnumbers?
12:22 mtj         magnuse: well... the fix seems to be not to use 'daemon' to detect whether zebs are running - but something else.. like pids
12:22 cait        magnuse: it creates problems if a patron has none
12:23 magnuse     the help text should perhaps say they are mandatory, then?
12:23 cait        probably
12:24 cait        bug 14067
12:24 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14067 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , 500 error when deleting patrons
12:24 cait        borrower without cardnumber can't be deleted
12:24 cait        and i thik i had them breaking search or something similar too
12:24 magnuse     ok :-)
12:25 cait        bug 13780
12:25 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13780 normal, P5 - low, ---, koha-bugs, NEW , A patron without cardnumer will break searching for category code
12:28 magnuse     cait++
12:33 tcohen      mtj: there was a patch for that
12:34 tcohen      bug 14361
12:34 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14361 major, P5 - low, ---, benjamin.rokseth, Needs Signoff , koha-restart-zebra fails and probably breaks upgrade
12:34 tcohen      please test it and sign!
12:36 mtj         thanks tcohen
12:40 mtj         tcohen: it fixes the problem :)
12:40 cait        wb Viktor
12:40 mtj         adding the --pid arg, makes daemon work
12:41 magnuse     super easy signoff, no real testing required: bug 14403
12:41 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14403 normal, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Needs Signoff , Remove unconditional warn from Koha::NorwegianPatronDB
12:45 * magnuse   suspects Viktor of sleepwalking
12:47 * magnuse   also suspects this day of skipping a couple of hours
12:48 cait        possibly
12:55 magnuse     thanks indradg
12:55 indradg     magnuse :)
12:55 magnuse     cait: bug 14403 is a supereasy qa for you :-)
12:55 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14403 normal, P5 - low, ---, magnus, Signed Off , Remove unconditional warn from Koha::NorwegianPatronDB
12:56 huginn      New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 14070: Prevent to save a letter if an error occurred <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=d56a275c0d101e7969192ef326ceaa64cacf83d8> / Bug 14351: Remove given-when from opac-search.pl <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=38048bc420ffa6f2a5a73287fdff5e2d8cbe63ef> / Bug 14350: Missing statement in kohastructure.sql - DROP TABLE IF EXISTS borrower_sync <http://git.koha
12:57 cait        fighting 41101 rightnow
12:57 cait        hm bug  14401
12:57 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14401 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Needs Signoff , Zebra index configuration doesn't allow exact search for 'C.'
12:59 magnuse     sounds like fun
13:31 indradg     tcohen bugs 14135, 14268, 14240, 14252, especially 14135 and 14268 please :)
13:52 cait        magnuse: it actually is a silly thing - some kind of weird mapping
13:52 cait        indradg: thx :) indradg++
13:53 cait        did i only imagine that the language descriptions are now in a central spot? :(
14:05 tcohen      indradg: i think it is ilegal to request your patches to be pushed like that
14:05 tcohen      :-P
14:05 tcohen      druthb: isn't it?
14:05 druthb      hi
14:07 indradg     tcohen: hehe... i was afraid it was... at least i wasn't trying to bribe the RM :D
14:08 * cait      whispers to indradg: he likes hard swiss hazelnut cookies...
14:08 indradg     cait: i kept scratching my head why the patch wasnt working... until i noticed the patch copy wasn't being used by zebra :P
14:08 cait        ah yes
14:09 cait        you usually need to copy it, but it dpeends on your setup
14:09 indradg     hi druthb, drojf
14:09 drojf       hi indradg
14:16 * indradg   waves
14:32 pianohacker druthb! Hi :)
14:32 druthb      pianohacker!  :)    :P
15:20 AmitG       hi all
15:20 AmitG       hi indradg
15:29 AmitG       hi tchoen
15:29 AmitG       hi tcohen
15:37 reiveune    bye
15:39 khall       has anyone else seen this bug before? Bug 12552
15:39 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12552 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Odd error caused by URI Escape
15:39 khall       it's driving me crazy that I can't reproduce it on a test server
15:40 bag         good morning
15:40 wahanui     the only good morning is a dead one
16:37 Shane-S     Hi there, few questions...1: is 3.12 to far behind to go to 3.20 if I used packages?
16:38 Shane-S     2: Is it possible to share the patrons database between separate libraries? (I currently track IT assets this way...and my librarian is having a fit with my overdues)
16:39 Shane-S     3: If I can't share the patrons, can I run a mysql query to extract and populate or is there data issues doing so?
16:59 pianohacker Shane-S: 1. No, shouldn't be, the upgrade will require some time (and you should definitely back up first) 2. Between separate libraries, yes, but they have to be in the same Koha installation. You can get some level of isolation, but not complete. 3. There shouldn't be huge issues, but be careful with checkouts/fines/etc
17:51 mtompset    Greetings, #koha.
17:53 mtompset    @seen khall
17:53 huginn      mtompset: khall was last seen in #koha 2 hours, 13 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <khall> it's driving me crazy that I can't reproduce it on a test server
17:53 khall       yo
17:53 mtompset    I guess your last comment was about bug 12552
17:53 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=12552 major, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Needs Signoff , Odd error caused by URI Escape
17:53 khall       yep
17:53 mtompset    Do you have a server with an older URI::Escape?
17:54 khall       that's the first thing I checked, URI::Escape is the latest version
17:54 khall       I tried that based on my old comment ; )
17:54 mtompset    and it happens with the latest version?!
17:55 khall       yes, what's more odd is there isn't even a note set. We get the error even if you leave the note field blank!
17:55 khall       it's utter nonsense to me
17:55 mtompset    What browser?
17:55 wahanui     browser is unresponsive for a moment while the table loads.
17:55 khall       chrome and firefox
17:55 wahanui     chrome and firefox are more or less the same speed these days
17:55 mtompset    on debian?
17:56 khall       yes
17:56 khall       actually, now that I recall, I think the data we are escaping there are the fine notes, not the payment notes, so it's probably not a browser issue
17:57 mtompset    No, it is payment note you are escaping.
17:57 mtompset    I figure you are hitting the write off button.
17:57 khall       ok, thanks for confirming that.
17:57 khall       I'm using the "Pay" button
17:57 khall       for individual fines
17:57 mtompset    okay that button set. :)
17:59 mtompset    I just tried IE, Firefox, and Chrome in Windows 7.
18:00 mtompset    I found it interesting that Firefox did NOT escape the [ in my note.
18:00 mtompset    Both IE and Chrome did.
18:00 mtompset    This is unpatched.
18:00 khall       that is most odd
18:01 mtompset    So, if I'm going to try to replicate, I think I'll work with firefox. ;)
18:01 mtompset    you just hit the pay button?
18:01 mtompset    no comment?
18:07 mtompset    So the error occurs immediately after hitting the pay button, khall?
18:07 mtompset    nice, HTML crapout, or is this a subtle warning log?
18:07 khall       yes, that is correct
18:07 khall       html crapout
18:08 mtompset    I can't replicate it either.
18:08 mtompset    But I know the patch is good.
18:08 mtompset    frustrating. :(
18:12 mtompset    BTW, my server was Debian Jessie.
18:13 mtompset    I'm assuming these are at least Debian Wheezy, right, khall?
18:13 khall       yes
18:13 khall       at least I think so, I'd have to double check
18:15 mtompset    Maybe, indradg has a livedvd that replicates the problem. ;)
18:15 indradg     eNh! i no do such things ;-)
18:17 mtompset    khall: What version are the production systems experiencing this?
18:17 mtompset    perhaps this is one of those annoying subtle side-effects that is hiding.
18:37 * mtompset  goes decides to eat some food. Oops! Missed lunch.
18:54 * magnuse   will be travelling tomorrow - have fun #koha!
19:52 mtompset    khall_away: :( not quite.
20:39 wnickc      If the guy who wanted to watch Anchroman 2 figured out how to place a hold, no one can tell me this system is too complicated
20:40 rangi       heh
20:40 cait        huh?
20:40 liz         every borrower their materials, core librarian value.
20:42 wnickc      I mean, I purchased it and was the first borrower so can't really judge
20:43 * liz       is not judging
20:44 rangi       i watched it, it's not horrendous
20:44 drojf       i always wondered if librarians judge me when i check out weird stuff. i'll never visit a library again now :(
20:44 * wnickc    feels librairan guilt
20:45 cait        wnickc: instead of feelign guilt...
20:45 rangi       i judge people who dont visit libraries
20:45 cait        i got a bug i need a commen ton
20:45 cait        7710
20:45 rangi       now you're stuck drojf
20:45 rangi       :)
20:46 drojf       damn
20:46 liz         the OPAC is pretty consistent in it's usability, I think. It has some spots that need polishing but it's mostly ok I think
20:46 drojf       :D
20:46 wnickc      drojf: I try not to, but we all slip now and then
20:46 wnickc      liz:I totally agree, some people just never get past "But in our old system..."
20:47 wnickc      cait:been pondering that, will put something there
20:48 pianohacker bug 7710
20:48 huginn      04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7710 new feature, P5 - low, ---, alex.arnaud, In Discussion , multiple holds per title
20:48 cait        wnickc: i was thinking a patch just to allow multiple on all - that would maybe just create chaos... or not be super helpful
20:49 wnickc      where most of the libraries I know are looking for this patch it is specifically on DVD sets and the like
20:49 cait        wnickc: and the other thing is mixing record level and item level holds... which I can't coome up with a use case for - i feel like we should probably not aloow that or mke it possible to configure it so that it won't happen (force item levle holds maybe)
20:49 cait        yep makes sense
20:49 wnickc      Where multiple parts are catalgoed as individual items and a patron wants discs 3 and 4 say
20:49 cait        or serials in an academic setting - the bound year volumes
20:49 cait        they are often in closed stacks too
20:50 liz         for what it's worth
20:50 liz         I don't think that you should allow one person to place both biblio level and item level holds on the same biblio
20:50 wnickc      I can see a use for record/item holds if looking for book group or something.  All items are out, you specifically hold the one out to staff or certian borrowers and make sure they don't renew and then place a next available to catch whatever other one comes back
20:51 rangi       i agree with liz, that should be impossible
20:51 rangi       either 1 biblio level hold
20:51 wnickc      may be reaching there, but if you can think it, someone is doiing it
20:51 rangi       or multiple item level
20:51 liz         or several item level ones
20:51 rangi       but not both
20:51 rangi       the could to try and sort that out at circulation would just be untenable
20:52 rangi       and always be doing something wrong
20:52 liz         book clubs being a good example here, a librarian should place individual holds on all copies theyw want back
20:52 liz         if they only want one back, biblio level.
20:52 rangi       itd be like my aprils fools day patch, which just randomly issued books to borrowers no matter what they actually wanted
20:52 rangi       liz: agreed
20:53 liz         serials, same - though for a serial you'd almost never want a biblio level, that's not really sensible.
20:53 * cait      nods
20:53 wnickc      I can agree on not mixing, but why not 2 bib level?
20:53 cait        i think the other is too chaotic
20:53 cait        why would you need 2 identic copies?
20:53 rangi       maybe for a book club
20:53 rangi       yeah, i could see a case for 2 biblio level ones
20:54 cait        maybe allow from the staff side
20:54 cait        but not sure about the opac
20:54 rangi       i just want two copies .. i dont care which 2, just 2
20:54 cait        and should be optional... i think
20:54 cait        libraries here don't want students to have 2 of the same - because then another student doesn't get one
20:54 liz         maybe have an option to specify number of copies?
20:54 liz         to fulfill the hold?
20:54 rangi       liz: yeah, i could see that on the staff side
20:54 wnickc      so the hold would have a counter?
20:55 liz         i.e. biblio level, two copies
20:55 liz         and hold is complete
20:55 cait        wnickc: i think 2 holds... or we are loking at at total holds rewrite
20:55 rangi       wnickc: the system could just place 2 holds in the background
20:55 cait        yep
20:55 rangi       wnickc: but the interface could let you say, 2 copies please
20:55 liz         ^^^
20:56 wnickc      I like that
20:56 cait        i think the tricky bit here after hte use cases is
20:56 cait        how do we want to configure it?
20:56 cait        the patch is a global pref now i tihnk
20:56 cait        i hope i didn't get that wrong
20:56 rangi       yeah i think it needs to be with the circ rules
20:56 cait        just *how many total on a record*  and i feel like that is not really helpful
20:56 rangi       not a global pref
20:56 cait        yeah i was thinking the same
20:56 cait        we have all the other hold related stuff ther enow... it would make it realy flexible
20:57 rangi       *nod*
20:57 cait        i also kind of liked the enumchron idea - but that could maybe also be done
20:57 rangi       ok, meeting time
20:57 wahanui     somebody said meeting time was always going to favour one section of the globe
20:57 rangi       bbiab
20:57 cait        and you could combine it with forced item holds and solve the 'don't mix' issue
20:57 pianohacker heh. Reminds me , Kyle and I have a circ rules UI revamp we need to send an RFC for to community
20:57 pianohacker (not even started, but every new circ rule column makes it more important)
20:58 cait        true... but i think it's really better to have it there than the logic scattered in all those different places :)
20:58 pianohacker if we keep adding columns you'll need a http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA25V16D0069 to configure the dang thing
20:59 wnickc      yeah, the more branch specific anything can be configured the happier our member libraries are
21:00 cait        pianohacker: i think we just need a more flexible way to filter sort the columns... and an editable table would be nice
21:00 cait        ... can i get one? :)
21:00 cait        so i could filter on the overdue related columns and sort by category or itemtype... and type in the values directly
21:00 pianohacker I had a patch for that years and years ago... we're thinking something a bit more ambitious
21:01 cait        pianohacker: just don't overcomplicate :)
21:01 cait        right now i usually load them with sql... because enteirng them in the gui is too painful
21:02 pianohacker cait: we have two versions, one of them I think will be much liked and the other that may be a bit too crazy
21:02 cait        heh we will see :)
21:05 pianohacker The elevator pitch is that we want to have a UI/backend where you drill down by branch, category or item type and configure only the things that you want to configure at that level. As it stands, there's a lot of forced duplication between rules because you have to specify every value for each entry
21:05 pianohacker When you may want loan length to be the same for most things and only configure, say, fines per itemtype
21:05 cait        yeah ... but it also means that we get a clear rule out of it :)
21:06 cait        but we still could on database level anyway i guess
21:06 pianohacker you do, but the current UI is clear to the point of frustration, too much data to parse through
21:06 cait        yeah... all i use is sql
21:07 cait        that#s why i asked for sorting and filtering on table columns... it's how i do it now i guess
21:07 cait        using mysql workbench - also lets you write into the cells directly
21:08 pianohacker and most people don't trust the fallback order from specific branch/categorycode/itemtype to less specific, so while you may have a clear _rule_, you may not have a clear idea of _when_ that rule will be applied
21:08 cait        yeah.... i don't use it for that reason
21:08 cait        the defaults
21:08 wahanui     the defaults are 80 with packages.
21:08 cait        i do a complete matrix
21:08 pianohacker I'd like the UI to suggest that more naturally than the current awkward list at the top
21:09 cait        yeah that would be nice
21:09 pianohacker exactly! and you're at least somewhat familiar with the underlying logic, librarians in general aren't
21:09 cait        shining through in grey or so
21:09 pianohacker oh jeez
21:09 cait        what did you try to say there?
21:09 pianohacker held down arrow key on a slow ssh link :P
21:10 pianohacker "exactly! and you're at least somewhat familiar with the underlying logic, librarians in general aren't"
21:11 pianohacker but yeah, we need something that's better than a complete matrix (unpleasant reminders of 2.2 era) but less vague than the current interface
21:11 pianohacker and Kyle and I are always looking for a new ocean to boil
21:12 wnickc      i've always kind of wanted a tester, scan an item/patron and get back the rule that is applying
21:12 pianohacker wnickc: I either want to include that or make it unnecessary :)
21:13 wnickc      I guess you need branch too because of HomeOrHoldingBranch
21:13 wnickc      pianohacker:unneccessary gets my vote
21:18 pianohacker cait: I like the editable table thing and I think they'd be nice in a number of places in the admin interface, but I think the fallback logic makes them a bit too limited for circ rules
21:18 cait        hm not necessarily
21:18 cait        what i'd lik to avoid is have to specify separate rules
21:18 cait        an then apply them again somewhere
21:19 cait        (like the one that shoudl not be named seems to do)
21:30 cait        wnickc: there is no OpacItemholds pref anymore :)
21:30 cait        wnickc: also in the circ rules now
21:30 cait        with 3.20
21:38 wnickc      Ah, running on 3.18, should never use it for reference :-)
21:42 cait        allowonshelfholds too
21:42 cait        i was really keen on that patch to make it in
21:42 cait        a world of new possibilities
21:45 wnickc      I think we have some libraries who will be happy about that
21:50 drojf       good night #koha
22:12 wnickc      bye #koha
22:21 eythian     hi
22:22 cait        night all :)