Time  Nick                   Message
01:08 mtompset               YAY! I'm closer to getting a CAS server set up.
01:08 mtompset               Anyone have experience with this?
01:36 geek_cl                mtompset, any issue?
01:45 mtompset               Well, i seem to have the apache mod auth_cas redirecting for authentication, but there's nothing trying to authenticate.
01:46 mtompset               No user name and password prompts.. just a complaint about cas/login not existing.
01:47 mtompset               which makes sense, because there is no such directory as far as i know.
01:49 geek_cl                mtompset, can you enable DEBUG for the apache and the process?
01:52 mtompset               enable how again?
01:52 mtompset               And I don't think that is the problem.
01:53 geek_cl                yeah, but logs can says to you something
01:54 mtompset               I'm giving up until someone has a "follow these instructions" URL link that works gauranteed. :)
01:55 geek_cl                https://wiki.jasig.org/display/CAS/Proxy+CAS+Walkthrough
02:23 eythian                yay, PDF::FromHTML builds on wheezy!
02:36 mtompset               Thanks, geek_cl. That may be helpful, when I get time to look at it further.
03:06 mtj                    hey #koha
03:07 mtj                    geek_cl: thats a nice CAS link ^
03:07 geek_cl                yeah  ;)
03:08 mtj                    ive been curious about CAS + Koha for ages
03:08 Cambodia_Librar        hello
03:08 Cambodia_Librar        can you help me
03:09 Cambodia_Librar        ?
03:09 eythian                ask?
03:09 wahanui                Don't ask to ask, just ask.
03:10 mtj                    Cambodia_Librar: short answer is yes :)
03:10 mtj                    longer answer is... maybe? :p
03:11 mtj                    what is your question Cambodia_Librar?
03:13 eythian                @later tell tcohen libpdf-fromhtml-perl is finally in the repo.
03:13 huginn                 eythian: The operation succeeded.
03:15 Cambodia_Librar        how to create Shelving location
03:15 Cambodia_Librar        ?
03:16 eythian                if you add an authorised value with the code LOC, it is the shelving location.
03:17 Cambodia_Librar        ok
03:19 mtj                    congrats on the  libpdf-fromhtml-perl build eythian
03:20 eythian                hopefully it's accepted into debian proper so it mostly stops being my problem :)
03:20 eythian                (it should be, it has had a fair bit of cleaning up.)
04:10 mtj                    nice, its an interesting process huh  :)
04:14 eythian                https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-perl/packages/libpdf-fromhtml-perl.git/log/ <-- quite a few patches needed.
04:19 mtompset               Have a great day, #koha.
04:22 mtj                    nice, i havent seen that alioth cgit before
04:24 mtj                    very impressive eythian :)
04:47 eythian                @later tell tcohen can you please add the patch from bug 14321 to 3.20.x
04:47 huginn                 eythian: The operation succeeded.
05:07 eythian                @later tell tcohen I'd also really like to get bug 14106 fixed before 3.20 gets released. Which means I need to write it first.
05:07 huginn                 eythian: The operation succeeded.
06:30 reiveune               hello
06:33 magnuse                bonjour le #koha!
06:35 cait                   bbl #koha
06:46 magnuse                @wunder boo
06:46 huginn                 magnuse: The current temperature in Bodo, Norway is 9.0°C (8:20 AM CEST on May 20, 2015). Conditions: Partly Cloudy. Humidity: 58%. Dew Point: 1.0°C. Pressure: 29.68 in 1005 hPa (Steady).
06:48 p_vdk                  Hi Koha
06:52 magnuse                hiya p_vdk
06:52 p_vdk                  hey magnuse
07:03 indradg                good afternoon #koha
07:03 indradg                @karma
07:03 huginn                 indradg: Highest karma: "cait" (226), "Joubu" (180), and "tcohen" (170).  Lowest karma: "ie" (-22), "-" (-13), and "^" (-12).  You (indradg) are ranked 39 out of 411.
07:08 magnuse                hiya Viktor indradg fridolin cait
07:08 indradg                hi magnuse
07:08 indradg                @wunder kolkata
07:08 huginn                 indradg: The current temperature in Kolkata, India is 33.0°C (12:20 PM IST on May 20, 2015). Conditions: Light Rain. Humidity: 66%. Dew Point: 26.0°C. Pressure: 29.59 in 1002 hPa (Steady).
07:08 magnuse                you win - again!
07:08 indradg                heh
07:09 magnuse                ooh, just above the comfort level for humidity?
07:09 Viktor                 Hi magnuse cait and all :)
07:09 indradg                magnuse: wait for the winter, then you would be beating me hands down
07:09 magnuse                btw, we did have 30C last summer :-)
07:09 indradg                hi Viktor
07:09 indradg                magnuse: the humidity is actually not so bad right now... bad is when it goes past mid 70s
07:10 * cait                 waves
07:10 indradg                hi cait
07:12 magnuse                indradg: noted :-)
07:12 magnuse                oops, i lied. the warmest we had last year was 29.1C
07:13 Viktor                 We'll be working on some patches for making the news more of a "blog".
07:13 magnuse                yay
07:13 Viktor                 But what about making the Opac more of a CMS?
07:13 Viktor                 I know indradg worked a bit on those things(?)
07:13 magnuse                probably depends on what you mean by that :-)
07:14 Viktor                 I'd like to extend "Koha as CMS"-functionality to automatically create navigation.
07:14 fridolin               hie
07:14 indradg                Viktor: I'm not sure whether to maintain the plugin or merge and extend it as a regular function on Koha
07:15 Viktor                 And also a better system than sysprefs for integrating HTML on the sidebars. Perhaps some widget system? Or at least integrating TinyMCE there as well(?)
07:15 magnuse                yeah, i have been thinking about a new type of syspref for the html fields, that could use tinymce when you edit them
07:15 Viktor                 Indradg: I'd like to have that as a regular out of the box function. Libraries over here often use that kind of functionality.
07:16 magnuse                should not be a ton of work, i think
07:16 indradg                it is not
07:17 Viktor                 Then perhaps I should write an RFC to outline what we would want and then we discuss the whole picture at one?
07:17 indradg                Viktor: go ahead
07:17 Viktor                 indradg :)
07:18 magnuse                Viktor: that's the way to do it :-)
07:18 Viktor                 We have the resources to get it done I think but I feel it needs to be synced with the communtiy so we dont break anyones workflow.
07:18 indradg                Viktor++
07:19 Viktor                 I'll also make an RFC for version handling of records and granular permissions for what sources can edit what fields in records. That one feels a bit more like a potential can of worms :)
07:20 indradg                I can spend some time on the CMS. but not unless there is some sort of agreement on what we want and that doing so won't break up existing workflow
07:20 Viktor                 indradg++
07:22 Viktor                 Then a RCF sounds like a very good idea. I can allocate resources to this as well (and the first patches needed for showing author of news might show up today). But as you say we need to know people will not cry out in horror.
07:24 indradg                :)
07:54 AmitG                  heya indradg
07:55 indradg                Hi AmitG
08:00 cait                   Viktor: I amnot so much in favor of sysprefs - because it's only one language if you are not using tricks
08:00 cait                   at least our current system preferences make things a little hard, it's easy to add a bit of javascript to get the effect
08:04 magnuse                yeah, a more mature blog/cms thing should not store pages as sysprefs
08:04 magnuse                create a new table for that
08:13 cait                   yeah
08:26 mveron                 Hi #koha
08:27 mveron                 ...and good daytime to everybody :-)
08:28 indradg                hiya mveron
08:29 mveron                 hiya indradg :-)
08:30 indradg                Bug 14234
08:30 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14234 new feature, P5 - low, ---, indradg, NEW , Include the user manual with Koha package
08:31 indradg                mveron, magnuse, Viktor, cait ^^^^ please do comment, this is partly linked to nengard's bug 11115
08:31 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11115 new feature, P5 - low, ---, indradg, NEW , Pull help files from the manual
08:34 Viktor                 indradg: From a user standpoint I would find that higly useful.
08:34 Viktor                 From a technical standpoint I don't see any problems. Which might mean I fail to see something important :)
08:34 indradg                :)
08:36 mveron                 I like the idea to have a local copy of the manual. The help could then have 2 links, one to the local copy and one to the online manual
08:42 xarragon               mveron: Having a local copy also means that the user would also automatically be using the right version of the documentation, an important benefit.
08:42 xarragon               mveron: Although that depends on how much difference there is between versions.
08:44 mveron                 xarragon: ...and the most recent copy could be distributed with the updates
08:44 magnuse                sounds good to me (without giving it too much thought)
08:46 magnuse                phew, paperwork for march and april done, now i just need to get it to the accountant
09:12 drojf                  morning #koha
09:23 drojf                  is build-git-snapshot supposed to write into debian/changelog? i set the version to master+patchnumber, it did not like it (has to start with a number) and got stuck because it had the 'master+number' thing in debian/changelog and that made all following attempts to build a package (with correct number) fail, arguing 3.19~something was a smaller number than master~something
10:15 * drojf                quietly puts some chocolate on the #koha table, hides & observes
10:16 * ashimema             num, num, num...
10:16 * drojf                makes a note in the kohadev spotting book
10:23 * cait1                munches
10:23 cait1                  slides?
10:23 wahanui                kf should be writing slides
10:25 indradg                mveron: thanks for testing... i'm checking what is the issue with the second commit
10:26 cait1                  forget slides
10:26 wahanui                cait1: I forgot slides
10:26 cait1                  slides is <reply> Slides are evil! Noone should be forced to write any!
10:26 cait1                  slides?
10:26 wahanui                Slides are evil! Noone should be forced to write any!
11:01 cait1                  ashimema: i need an urgent sip test
11:02 cait1                  bug 14151 - really bad for 3.18
11:02 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14151 critical, P5 - low, ---, kyle, Signed Off , SIP2 Checkouts fail in Koha 3.18
11:16 * magnus_out_and_about magnuse
11:17 magnuse                pft
11:27 ashimema               cait: I've stuck colinc on it
11:28 * ashimema             really needs a new stall.. that's the third time today it's collapsed underneath him
11:34 magnuse                stall?
11:35 xarragon               Laptop stand?
11:35 ashimema               seat
11:36 ashimema               a tall bar stall type seat.. I have a standing desk and usually stand..
11:36 ashimema               but a tall stall for occasional perching when the legs are tired ;)
11:36 xarragon               I broke off the back rest on my office chair once, by mistake. That was fun!
11:37 xarragon               While I was sitting in it. Apparently a manufacturing defect.
11:37 ashimema               yikes.. that does sound fun
11:37 ashimema               I imagine it has a simlar effect to my stall collapsing.. you ending up in a heap on the floor ;)
11:38 xarragon               Could have ended badly, but my clumsiness is usually compensated by dumb luck. :-)
11:38 xarragon               There was a sharp metal edge left efter the single flat bar snapped off, it was aiming for my butt and/or lower back, but missed.
12:28 tcohen                 morning
12:29 tcohen                 eythian++
12:41 indradg                I've a question - when would a bug report quality as "enhancement" and when as a "new feature"? - would adding a new functionality to a module an enhancement or a new feature?
13:01 nengard                morning all
13:15 magnuse                hiya nengard
13:16 nengard                magnuse!!!! :)
13:16 nengard                I miss you magnuse
13:16 magnuse                awww...
13:17 magnuse                'twas really great meeting you again in marseille!
13:19 nengard                :)
13:24 magnuse                maybe again next year? :-)
13:24 * magnuse              wanders off to collect kiddo from kindergarten
13:25 nengard                yes i hope so
13:53 edveal                 Has anyone set Firefox to store you Koha usr/pwd? I just noticed if you do then your usr/pwd auto populates the usr/pwd fields when you are adding a new patron.
13:53 edveal                 I am going to report this as a minor bug but thought I would see if anyone else has seen this first.
14:14 tcohen                 cait1: around?
14:23 cait1                  yep
14:25 tcohen                 marcelr++
14:25 tcohen                 thanks for chairing yesterday
14:25 tcohen                 ^^^ cait1
14:26 fridolin               edveal: indeed, Firefox auto-pupulate fields depending on there name. The names in the authentification form have the same name in the new borrower form
14:26 fridolin               its a "side effect" i would say
14:27 huginn                 New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 11925: Check ages limits when creating/updating patrons <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=cc393df50fb1862925c3122aeadd579a627912c6> / Bug 14195: (followup) increment number of tests <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=de448c0a1ee7619952cec3d08ce41b0fad4d6132> / Bug 14195: TestBuilder - A random string should not be longer than the DB field <http://git.koha-comm
14:28 edveal                 fridolin yes, I agree but one that could cause users problems. So I reported it as a minor bug
14:30 fridolin               edveal: yes, good idea
14:33 cait1                  tcohen: np
14:33 tcohen                 13650
14:55 cait1                  bug 13650
14:55 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13650 normal, P5 - low, ---, wsalesky, Passed QA , Parenthesis in subject links problematic for search
15:14 willem7684             Hi there, I'm having trouble with Firefox being unable to open documents listed in field 856 (electronic doc links). IE did this perfectly with file:// etc. Firefox doesn't support that, but works fine if I just type the \\myserver\var\andsoandso in the address line. When I put this into field 856 however, koha adds http:// in front and it doesn't work any more. Is it possible to tell koha NOT to add http:// ? If this involves changing koha script I'll
15:27 drojf                  willem7684: do you use '4' for the first indicator maybe?
15:27 huginn                 New commit(s) kohagit: Bug 13650: Remove parens from links to fix searches <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=f52084df0e395fdf89d80ca2fd77844273a8cf7c> / Bug 14072: Followup: extra space <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=47bf99576e777f484f9fa64bbf3415c75031b69e> / Bug 14072: Update German web installer for 3.20 <http://git.koha-community.org/gitweb/?p=koha.git;a=commitdiff;h=b23557d9d8e
15:27 willem7684             drojf: what do you mean? what is a first indicator?
15:28 reiveune               bye
15:30 drojf                  willem7684: in the MARC field. see http://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd856.html
15:32 willem7684             drojf: OK I see what you mean. I'll have a look at this in the MARC info. Thanks already for this.
15:35 tcohen                 Joubu: need your help http://snag.gy/AxvMO.jpg
15:35 tcohen                 let me know if we can talk a sec
15:38 drojf                  willem7684: actually, file:/// works fine for me in firefox
15:57 willem7684             drojf: yes, i've now found that FF is fine with file:///\\myserver\and\so\on but koha converts all the backslashes \ to slashes/ and FF gets stuck. Any ideas?
15:58 drojf                  willem7684: don't use backslashes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_URI_scheme#Legacy_URLs
15:59 willem7684             drojf: the backslashes are for the local file system from which I try to open a doc in the browser. this works fine for IE
15:59 drojf                  firefox should be fine with file:///yourserver/path/file
16:00 drojf                  koha is based on standards. IE is based on… i have no idea what it is based on :D
16:06 willem7684             drojf: FF works for me with file:///c:text.txt but not with file:///myserver/more over the network
16:08 drojf                  willem7684: i think it's file://server/path with two slashes, if its on another computer. and three slashes locally
16:11 drojf                  anyway i have never tried anything like this in koha. i'd make it available via http
16:13 willem7684             drojf: I've got it. 5 slashes in file://///myserver/etc indeed with all slashes. Many thanks. BTW this is about docs that should not be available for all on http. We only access these docs through our own network, but after a koha search, so that's why the koha links need to work. Thanks again!
16:15 drojf                  you can use http in a local network too :) 5 slashes looks funny, but as long as it works ;)
16:20 willem7684             drofj: been too optimistic. The link file://///myserver/and/so works when entered directly into FF but not as koha link, although the link now correctly shows below the page when hovering over the link with the mouse...
17:05 tcohen                 cait1: sent
17:07 cait1                  tcohen: thx, whch address?
17:07 tcohen                 both
17:08 cait1                  perfect htx
18:32 tcohen                 Callenderul
18:32 tcohen                 ^^^^  that's what smuxi wrote when I typed 'hi paul<tab>'
18:32 tcohen                 hi paul_p
18:32 paul_p                 hi tomas
18:33 paul_p                 tcohen I mean ;-)
18:33 tcohen                 he
18:35 * paul_p               a little bit tired... woke up at 4AM, a day in airports & plane. But I'm in joensuu now, Olli country & city! for the Koha seminar Finland
18:35 nengard                fun
18:36 nengard                the seminar - not the airplane and early morning
18:44 tcohen                 nengard: is it Nicole C Engard? or should I remove the C? Or put a dot like in C.?
18:44 nengard                It's C.
18:44 nengard                :)
18:44 nengard                at least it is on all my publications
18:45 tcohen                 not on the release notes :-/
18:45 tcohen                 or the about page
18:45 * tcohen               will fix it
18:48 indradg                good evening #Koha
18:58 tcohen                 nengard: http://snag.gy/b8h2z.jpg
18:59 nengard                correct :)
18:59 nengard                tcohen probably because my name on my email doesn't have it ...
18:59 paul_p                 tcohen = that's the expected release date for 3.20 ?
19:00 paul_p                 (talking about it in my keynote ;-) )
19:00 tcohen                 nengard: probably
19:00 tcohen                 paul_p: nope
19:00 tcohen                 that's today
19:00 paul_p                 s/that's/what's/ ...
19:00 tcohen                 i'm just playing with the script that generates them
19:00 paul_p                 you mean you plan to release 3.20 TODAY ?
19:00 tcohen                 no no
19:00 tcohen                 friday
19:00 tcohen                 the scheduled date is May 22nd
19:00 paul_p                 OK, was more expecting that ;-)
19:01 tcohen                 we are giving translators the time to finish their work
19:01 tcohen                 otherwise we are ready :-D
19:01 tcohen                 eythian++
19:01 paul_p                 a very hard quesiton : 2 single beds in my hotel room, which one should I choose, left or right ? ;-)
19:01 nengard                tcohen - oh bugger - the help files aren't done in time for release ... again :( sorry about that
19:02 nengard                guess they'll bein 3.20.1
19:02 nengard                too many updates in 3.18 and 3.20 to keep up with :) hehe
19:02 tcohen                 nengard: don't worry
19:02 nengard                still have 10 things to add to the manual
19:02 tcohen                 i'll get my revenge
19:02 tcohen                 at some point :-P
19:02 nengard                oh no!!!!
19:02 * nengard              hides
19:02 tcohen                 heh
19:02 tcohen                 because i'm soooo scary
19:02 tcohen                 jajaja
19:02 nengard                LOL
19:03 tcohen                 that's how we laugh in spanish, on chats
19:03 tcohen                 =D
19:03 nengard                makes perfect sense :)
19:08 paul_p                 sweet dreams to european ppl, happy day to others ! & bye bye.
19:16 * tcohen               noticed bywaterians have changed their email addresses recently
19:19 JesseM                 ?
19:20 tcohen                 nengard -> nicole, same for barton?
19:20 nengard                no? I haven't - what do you see?
19:20 nengard                I'm nengard@bywatersolutions.com or nicole@bywatersolutions.com  -- I think barton is only barton@bywatersolutions.com
19:20 JesseM                 we all have many aliases
19:21 tcohen                 and you use them all :-D they should be on the .mailmap file
19:21 tcohen                 i'm about to push some changes to it, please let me know about your aliases by email?
19:24 tcohen                 byw
19:24 tcohen                 bye
19:24 barton                 nengard's right, I'm just plain ol' barton, everywhere I go (at least as far as bywater is concerned).
20:48 rangi                  morning
20:50 cait                   happy birthday rangi :)
20:50 rangi                  thanks
20:51 cdickinson             it's your birthday today, rangi? awesome, happy birthday
20:52 drojf                  happy birthday rangi!
20:52 Dyrcona                happy birthday rangi!
20:55 magnuse                happy birthday rangi!
20:55 rangi                  thanks all
20:57 rangi                  hmm that latest email makes no sense to me, it sounds like he thinks the dump is doing an import?
20:58 drojf                  i did not get it either
20:59 drojf                  i think you are right
21:14 cait                   hm looking at a release notes 'preview' - wondering how many of the enh are actuallybug fixes
21:14 cait                   bug 11385
21:14 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11385 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, yohann.dufour, Pushed to Master , C4::SQLHelper should be removed
21:22 cait                   bug 13570
21:22 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13570 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Stable , koha-conf.xml mentions win32
21:23 rangi                  yeah probably should go through and fix those
21:23 rangi                  before the relesae notes are generated
21:24 cait                   i am right now :)
21:24 cait                   that's why i am asking weird questions :)
21:24 cait                   bug or enh?
21:24 rangi                  both bugs
21:24 rangi                  imho
21:25 cait                   thx :)
21:25 drojf                  enhancement by deletion seems odd :)
21:28 cait                   bug 10177
21:28 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10177 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, gmcharlt, Pushed to Master , Koha Accepts Seven "Space" Characters as a Valid Password
21:28 cait                   bug?
21:28 wahanui                bug is it stores biblionumber not itemnumber
21:29 rangi                  bug
21:29 rangi                  and critical even
21:49 cait                   bug 13407
21:49 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=13407 enhancement, P3, ---, cnighswonger, Pushed to Stable , Remove methods which are included in the 0.36 release of PDF::Reuse
21:51 mtompset               Greetings.
21:51 wahanui                and beatings!
21:51 mtompset               Joubu: Say it ain't so!
21:52 mtompset               Have a great day, #koha.
21:57 cait                   hm bug 11900 - i don't see this change on my installation?
21:57 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11900 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, veron, Pushed to Master , OPAC cart can confuse patrons
21:58 cait                   ah now it's there
22:06 eythian                hi
22:09 cait                   bug 7904 - bug?
22:09 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=7904 enhancement, P5 - low, ---, colin.campbell, Pushed to Master , SIP modules handling of @INC is confused
22:15 eythian                cait: technical debt payoff
22:16 cait                   so?
22:16 wahanui                so is a long road.
22:16 cait                   bug or enh?
22:25 rangi                  i just switched it to bug
22:26 cait                   thx
22:27 cait                   hm bug 10773 sounds like an enh to me
22:27 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=10773 major, P3, ---, dpavlin, Pushed to Stable , Add item-level descriptions for Label Printing
22:28 rangi                  hmm certainly not major anyway
22:29 cait                   i think i am moving it to enh
22:29 cait                   if ther eis no veto
22:29 eythian                it's a bit of both
22:29 cait                   it's something new people can use - in addition to how it worked before
23:07 wizzyrea               disable apache default site is <reply> https://i.imgur.com/V3hUcpX.png
23:07 wizzyrea               eythian++
23:15 eythian                cait: why did you remove the fullstop from bug 14103's summary?
23:15 huginn                 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=14103 critical, P5 - low, ---, hector.hecaxmmx, Pushed to Master , PDF::FromHTML headaches related to optional discharging
23:16 cait                   normalizing
23:17 cait                   for release notes
23:18 eythian                ah, fair enough
23:19 * eythian              looks at cait's spelling
23:19 * eythian              shakes head sadly
23:19 cait                   blame the mix of teachers i had :)
23:19 cait                   normalising?
23:19 eythian                that's better
23:20 * wizzyrea             pats cait gently
23:21 cait                   and my handwritten z are prettier than the s...
23:21 wizzyrea               and there isn't a good rule for the substitution.
23:21 wizzyrea               canada: keeps the z's, adds the U's. What?
23:22 wizzyrea               UK: both. US: neither AU: variable
23:22 wizzyrea               NZ: also variable.
23:22 wizzyrea               so no matter what, you're spelling it wrong.
23:23 eythian                I think our rule for that is == the UK
23:23 wizzyrea               I figure you can't really go wrong with adding both though.
23:23 eythian                I don't recall any differences.
23:23 wizzyrea               people will still get it.
23:23 wizzyrea               well and then there are the variations between individual words, and I personally still don't understand all of the circumstances where a z can be replaced with an s
23:24 eythian                you're not replacing a z with an s
23:24 eythian                you're just not replacing an s with a z
23:24 wizzyrea               :P
23:24 wizzyrea               you are the most lovable pedant ever.
23:24 dcook                  I don't think Oz is that variable?
23:24 rangi                  theres pretty much no z inside english words
23:24 eythian                try that on for size!
23:24 dcook                  Except maybe zebra
23:25 rangi                  yeah at the start there are
23:25 wizzyrea               and like, my full name :P
23:25 rangi                  but inside
23:25 ibeardslee             just put both the z and the s in there
23:25 dcook                  But yeah, I think z is a north american thing
23:25 wizzyrea               ibeardslee++
23:25 dcook                  a later addition that is
23:25 dcook                  Whoops... clicked through an installation prompt? Oh windows..
23:25 rangi                  cept for words that came from french like rendezvous
23:25 ibeardslee             isn't that an english word the french stole?
23:25 rangi                  and yeah proper nouns
23:25 * dcook                swears that half the words in English appear to have come from French and the other half are from German
23:25 wizzyrea               so customi...ation?
23:26 rangi                  s
23:26 ibeardslee             s
23:26 dcook                  s
23:26 wizzyrea               organi...ation?
23:26 rangi                  s
23:26 ibeardslee             s
23:26 wizzyrea               ^ this one I know
23:26 dcook                  That is, my autocorrect will use an s :p
23:26 wizzyrea               reali...ation?
23:26 rangi                  s
23:26 ibeardslee             s
23:26 eythian                dcook: English is a Germanic language, after all.
23:26 eythian                antici.......pation?
23:26 wizzyrea               lol
23:26 ibeardslee             let's just not get into the missing 'u's
23:27 wizzyrea               oh please can we?
23:27 * ibeardslee           blames australians for that
23:27 ibeardslee             the missing ewes
23:27 wizzyrea               they're all in nz
23:27 wizzyrea               ^.^
23:27 wizzyrea               see now you've figured it out
23:28 dcook                  eythian: When I was studying French, I found a lot of words easy to understand, as they were just "fancy" English words :p
23:28 wizzyrea               I usually just follow what autocorrect tells me to do
23:28 eythian                dcook: yeah, wars and invasions will do that :)
23:28 eythian                dcook: handy hint if you're in the area: the drunker you are, the easier Dutch is to read.
23:29 dcook                  eythian: Totally. I find it interesting how it was considered "cool" to speak French as an English person back in the day
23:29 dcook                  Oooh. Good to know!
23:29 eythian                apparently many of our French terms mean nothing to French people now.
23:29 dcook                  Oh yeah?
23:29 dcook                  Like what?
23:29 eythian                I'm trying to think of an example
23:29 dcook                  I mean... that was definitely the case growing up
23:29 dcook                  We were taught "soulier" for shoe as kids
23:30 dcook                  I said that to a French person when I was 18 and they laughed their ass off
23:30 wizzyrea               isn't it chausseur?
23:30 wizzyrea               for shoe
23:30 dcook                  Yep
23:31 * dcook                didn't learn that until he was 19/20... despite being raised speaking "French"
23:31 eythian                I can't think of the example, but I read/watched something about it recently.
23:31 dcook                  eythian: I'm sure you're right though
23:31 dcook                  ^not sarcasm
23:31 dcook                  I'm sure it happens with Icelandic and Norwegian as well?
23:31 eythian                most likely
23:33 dcook                  Wooo! Got Citrix access for a project!
23:34 dcook                  Turns out it's virtually useless as everything is too locked down. Woo!
23:34 eythian                usually if something involves the word "citrix" you know it's going to be a bad time
23:34 wizzyrea               cachet would be one of those words I think.
23:34 wizzyrea               it means "stamp" in french but something like "prestige" in english
23:35 eythian                faux ami
23:35 eythian                amis? I forget
23:35 wizzyrea               fake friends?
23:35 eythian                false friend in english
23:35 wizzyrea               it'd be plural
23:35 wizzyrea               because of the aux (if I'm remembering right it's been ages.
23:35 wizzyrea               )
23:36 eythian                two words that are the same/similar but with quite different meanings.
23:37 eythian                dier in Dutch == animal for example (and hart == deer, which is coincidentally another.)
23:38 dcook                  ?
23:38 dcook                  dier = any animal?
23:38 dcook                  hart == deer?
23:38 * dcook                thinks hart means deer in English too?
23:39 dcook                  Well, male deer I guess
23:39 wizzyrea               it's a variant yeah
23:39 dcook                  In French, those are called faux amis
23:39 eythian                dcook: yeah, dier just means animal.
23:39 eythian                <eythian> faux ami
23:39 eythian                <eythian> amis? I forget
23:39 eythian                :)
23:39 dcook                  False cognates. There's a fancy way of saying it..
23:40 dcook                  Ah
23:40 dcook                  I should've read the scrollback :
23:40 eythian                leads to works like dierengarten, too. For zoo.
23:40 dcook                  :P*
23:40 dcook                  O_o
23:40 dcook                  That is cool
23:40 eythian                err
23:40 eythian                dierentuin
23:40 eythian                confused my languages for a moment
23:41 wizzyrea               animalgarden, that kind of makes sense for zoo.
23:41 wizzyrea               oh, it's not that.
23:41 eythian                yeah, tuin means garden
23:41 eythian                no, it is literally that
23:41 wizzyrea               \o/ winning
23:41 dcook                  Hmm I think faux is faux both when it's plural and singular
23:42 eythian                "zooological garden" if you want to get all upper crust British about it
23:42 dcook                  I think there are a fair number of words like that, although I can't remember them..
23:42 wizzyrea               it's one of those words that does something funny to it's surrounding words, I do remember that (I think(
23:42 dcook                  Yeah, boo Citrix..
23:42 wizzyrea               meh.
23:42 dcook                  I think someone just needs to tweak a firewall, which makes me think this might be resolved sometime next year
23:43 dcook                  wizzyrea: Hmm?
23:43 dcook                  Which word?
23:47 dcook                  If it's faux, it'll make pronunciation differences
23:47 dcook                  http://french.about.com/library/pronunciation/bl-liaisons.htm