Time Nick Message 00:04 dcook eythian: :p 02:06 eythian hah, so I think my dumb query mistake yesterday was putting _any when I meant _all 02:14 dcook eythian: Ouch! 02:15 eythian anybody need a petabyte of online storage? rsync.net is doing a referral program where I'll get a $24,000 bonus, which would be nice. 02:23 mtj hi all 02:23 mtj hey, this is kinda curious.. 02:23 mtj https://github.com/wiggin/Google-did-you-mean 02:24 eythian it's something we could possibly implement with elasticsearch, I think 02:24 eythian I'm no 100% sure though 02:24 eythian *not 02:25 mtj ah nice 02:25 mtj its a tricky feature to spec huh.. the results will always be a bit subjective 02:27 eythian yeah 02:28 mtj different results, depending on the current lang. 02:29 mtj the way i imagine it working is a pretty useless way 02:29 eythian well, I was thinking it'd work from the current database 02:29 eythian so pretty much the same as a fuzzy search 02:29 dcook chrisvella_: Are you still about? 02:30 mtj eythian: yeah, thats the sensible way 02:32 mtj add some wildcards to the inital query, and try again... then show those results as some suggested search queries 02:33 dcook Actually, mtj, you might be the right person to talk to about bug 3144... 02:33 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=3144 normal, P5 - low, ---, mjr, Pushed to Stable , anti-spam for opac-suggestions 02:37 mtj hi dcook, whats the Q? 02:37 dcook The boss raised the query about the negative captcha and screen readers 02:37 dcook It looks like screen readers would read out that field :/ 02:37 dcook I'm doing some more reading about it atm 02:41 mtj hmm, ok 02:41 chrisvella_ yea dcook I am 02:42 dcook chrisvella_ I was just going to pose the same Q to you ;) 02:42 dcook Just looking at this site now: http://www.visionaustralia.org/living-with-low-vision/learning-to-live-independently/using-technology-and-computers/blog---accessibility-and-assistive-technology-blog/blog/accessibility-blog/2014/12/09/effective-alternatives-to-inaccessible-captchas 02:43 chrisvella_ hmmm thats interesting 02:44 mtj dcook: negcap seems to have a trivial fix? 02:44 chrisvella_ it does sound like a downside for accessibility but I doubt its going to be an issue for 99.99% of people 02:44 rangi and problem still way more accesible than an actual captcha 02:45 dcook mtj: Hmm? 02:45 dcook rangi: totes 02:45 dcook chrisvella_: true true 02:45 dcook I imagine with a label of "negcap", most people would probably leave it empty anyway 02:46 mtj i was just thinking of removing the text 'negcap' 02:46 rangi it's funny 02:46 chrisvella_ http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-hidden dcook mtj 02:47 rangi because all the alternatives they suggest assume everyone speaks english 02:48 dcook chrisvella_: Oh... that's cool 02:48 rangi i like the neg captcha because it doesn't bank on people's english comprehension level 02:48 dcook rangi: Yeah, they mention that on that visionaustralia page I linked 02:48 rangi i meant the ones they suggest on that page as possible alternatives :) 02:48 * dcook looks again 02:49 dcook "The biggest problem with logic questions is that they’re specific to a language, usually English." 02:49 mtj chrisvella_'s aria page looks good 02:49 rangi yeah which imho is a way worse problem 02:49 dcook Yeah, I'm down with the aria stuff 02:49 dcook rangi: Yeah, the English language stuff isn't a good alternative 02:49 rangi certainly there's more non english people than people using screen readers 02:50 dcook hehe 02:50 chrisvella_ yea agreed 02:50 chrisvella_ we have only implemented the negcap for the purchase suggestions page right? 02:50 dcook Ultimately, even the aria stuff could be circumvented. But pretty much anything can be with enough time and effort. 02:51 dcook I think so? 02:51 dcook Btw, in general, I'm totally in favour of the negcap. I hate captchas. 02:51 chrisvella_ I think its the right solution for koha 02:51 rangi i think we have a plain bad captcha on the borrwer self reg page 02:51 rangi we should fix that 02:51 dcook Ah yeah, I seem to recall a pretty bad one there 02:52 chrisvella_ this screen reader issue has totally surprised me, but I think its a minor issue all things considered 02:52 chrisvella_ the only potential issue is if koha becomes enough of a target for spammers 02:52 dcook We've had a few of our Kohas spammed pretty hard :/ 02:52 dcook But yeah, probably not very targetedly 02:52 chrisvella_ exactly 02:53 dcook Even in the screen reader case, most people would probably leave it blank, so probably not much of an issue 02:53 chrisvella_ like purchase suggestions are not a high value target 02:53 dcook Depends on how many times the spammers request FSOG, I guess 02:53 chrisvella_ as said above lets make the class/div name really obvious 02:53 rangi yep 02:53 * dcook nods 02:53 chrisvella_ "donotfillmein" 02:53 rangi and put it in the template in a way that's translatable 02:53 dcook ^ 02:53 rangi since the rest of the interface can be 02:54 chrisvella_ hahaha dcook. just google "FSOG" 02:54 chrisvella_ googled* 02:55 chrisvella_ has anyone had issues with the negcap? 02:55 dcook ;) 02:55 dcook Not that I know of 02:55 dcook I was just looking to backport it to 3.14 02:55 dcook And the boss mentioned the screen reader thing 02:56 chrisvella_ amazing pickup 02:56 dcook Well, we have quite a few government clients, so accessibility is always on the radar 02:56 chrisvella_ fair enough 02:57 dcook Actually, I think using Bootstrap has helped with that 02:57 chrisvella_ how so? 02:57 dcook Well, I don't have any examples off my head, so I should've probably said nothing :p 02:57 dcook But something in the back of my mind tells me that they try to keep accessibility in mind 02:58 dcook At least to a certain degree, and probably to a larger degree than anything we cook up would be 02:58 chrisvella_ the intention always seems to be there 02:58 chrisvella_ we have had to deal with similar things 02:58 dcook But not always the expertise :/ 02:58 chrisvella_ hahaha exactly 02:59 dcook I have a few friends who know a lot about accessibility, so I like to grill them for info :p 02:59 chrisvella_ I find its usually some arbitrary "make this text bigger" "make that brighter" 02:59 wizzyrea we do have a plain bad captcha on the selfreg page 02:59 wizzyrea in fact 02:59 chrisvella_ yea its an interesting topic 02:59 wizzyrea it needs a going over, generally. 03:00 chrisvella_ wizzyrea do you think a negcap would work there? 03:00 dcook Yeah, the "make this text bigger" "change these colurs" can be tough... although I see the point 03:00 * dcook prefers white text on a black background in many cases 03:00 chrisvella_ grosssss dcook :) 03:00 dcook wizzyrea: Yeah, I think there might be an issue with the cardnumber... I think I fixed it locally but I can't recall what it is now 03:00 dcook Too busy for my own (and everyone else's) good 03:00 dcook Which reminds me I should go for lunch because if I don't go now I'll never go 03:01 wizzyrea not just that, it's just not terribly usable. 03:01 wizzyrea I don't see why a negcap wouldn't work there. 03:01 chrisvella_ cool 03:02 chrisvella_ but then this screen reader issue becomes a bigger problem 03:03 chrisvella_ much more likely to have user interaction there 03:04 wizzyrea yep, accessible bot-proofing is a challenge. 03:05 wizzyrea google had a thing where they could tell if you were a human or bot just by the way you used the page - which sounds like deep dirty magic to me but... 03:05 chrisvella_ f googles implementation of that. 03:05 wizzyrea ikr 03:06 chrisvella_ there are terrible. the capturas were almost impossible on firefox when that was implemented 03:06 chrisvella_ they* 03:06 wizzyrea don't think I ever had the pleasure of actually having to use one, I only read about it. 03:07 wizzyrea sounded pretty eesh though 03:07 chrisvella_ idk if its still as bad. but it was super anti-competitive at first 03:08 chrisvella_ don't quote me on this 03:08 * wizzyrea totes quotes you 03:08 wizzyrea j/k 03:08 chrisvella_ hahaha 03:09 chrisvella_ but I believe using adblockers and stuff reduces your likelihood of being marked as "human" 03:09 chrisvella_ and using a google account and stuff 03:10 chrisvella_ basically submit to the botnet or spend your days filling in impossible cap's 03:12 chrisvella_ good message on the bug report dcook 03:30 dcook Thanks chrisvella_ :) 03:30 dcook Hmm, orthodontists seem sketchy... 03:30 dcook Even the one I like uses a hotmail address :p 03:31 eythian haha 03:31 wizzyrea judging people based on their email domain. tsk. 03:31 dcook It's medical info! 03:31 dcook Mind you, why are you emailing people with medical info... 03:32 wizzyrea these are better questions to be asking yourself. 03:32 dcook Oh man, that reminds me of so many different courts that want you to email your credit card details... 03:32 wizzyrea or government websites that don't use SSL 03:32 dcook ^ 03:32 wizzyrea <shudder> 03:33 dcook I emailed them being like "Maybe you should use SSL and have the ability to upload documents that way, as email isn't a secure way of transferring documents, especially credit card details, at all." 03:33 dcook And I never heard from them again... 03:33 wizzyrea heh. 03:33 dcook Fortunately, we found the documents and didn't need replacements :p 03:33 dcook But man... 03:33 dcook wizzyrea: The weird thing with the hotmail is that they have someone hosting a website for them. You'd think that they'd have email as well.. 03:34 dcook Mind you, the website is buggy so that's... not good 03:34 wizzyrea mmm those two things don't necessarily go together 03:34 wizzyrea but it's pretty easy to get a google apps domain 03:34 dcook Although now that I think about it... I did help that out with some graphic design stuff a few years ago when I had some time to kill 03:34 wizzyrea and use your own. 03:34 * eythian just asks people for the GPG key, with the assumption they have one. So far two people we've worked with have created one (which is also the number of people I've asked for one.) 03:34 dcook eythian: Which people? 03:34 wizzyrea hehehehhehh 03:35 eythian usually IT people at other organisations 03:35 eythian i.e. if I'm sharing passwords or some such 03:35 wizzyrea that might not work with an orthodontist. 03:35 * wizzyrea challenges eythian to try 03:35 wizzyrea not that he needs an orthodontist 03:35 * wizzyrea backs away slowly 03:35 dcook I'm sure the orthodontist could've been more tech savvy in a different life 03:36 eythian no, it probably won't. But if it points out that they shouldn't be emailing medical stuff... 03:36 eythian I used to have an orthodontist 03:36 eythian now I no longer need one. 03:36 eythian that's how they work :) 03:36 * dcook just needs someone to take a mould of his teeth, create a super thick plastic appliance, and give it to him with a minimum of fuss 03:36 dcook Alas, I'm a bruxist... 03:36 eythian appliance, like a washing machine? 03:36 dcook I foresee always needing an applicance 03:36 eythian in the form of a tooth 03:36 wizzyrea I am totally lost in the world of teeth straightening. 03:36 dcook That could be a space saver 03:36 dcook eythian ^ 03:37 dcook wizzyrea: As per my earlier post about blood and needles, I actually kind of like teeth pulling and stuff as well. Very satisfying sound when they come out. 03:37 eythian dcook: ah yeah, I had that and it was causing my TMJ to screw up. 03:37 dcook Although brace wire breakage sucks... 03:37 wizzyrea I just got a squicky feeling reading that. 03:37 eythian a mouthguard thing for a few weeks sorted it. 03:37 dcook eythian: TMJ? 03:37 dcook wizzyrea: sorry :( 03:38 * dcook thought about being a forensic pathologist, so body stuff is more interesting than icky to him 03:38 eythian dcook: temporomandibular joint 03:38 dcook Of course, I've thought about doing all sorts of things really 03:38 wizzyrea i have a high school friend who has/had a tmj ... thing 03:38 wizzyrea quite a good singer. 03:38 wizzyrea unrelated. 03:38 dcook Hmm, neato 03:38 * dcook seems to sleep stressfully 03:39 dcook I'm not going to share the contents of my next phone call. Hopefully it should be more straightforward. 03:39 dcook I just find medical/dental stuff so different in Australia... 03:39 dcook It's so easy back in Canada, but here it's all... 03:39 wizzyrea dcook: just be glad you're not in the states. 03:40 dcook I am so so glad I'm not in the states 03:45 eythian well, now I'm sortof getting authority results 03:45 eythian that's a start 03:50 dcook Ohh... this one is interesting 03:51 dcook The super expensive doctors email you a link to your message 03:55 dcook I was wondering what they meant when the email said "Secure email" :p 04:47 dcook Hmm.. 04:47 dcook Has Wheezy always linked "sh" to "dash"? 04:47 dcook I thought "dash" was just used in Ubuntu.. 04:49 eythian I think wheezy already has 04:49 eythian not sure when debian started doing it 04:49 dcook Yeah, I just noticed that this Wheezy install I'm using uses dash 04:49 eythian squeeze does too 04:49 dcook I thought the wheezy I have at home didn't though... 04:49 dcook Really? 04:49 dcook Huh.. 04:49 dcook I must not write as many shell scripts on Debian based systems.. 04:49 eythian yeah, just checked a server 04:50 dcook I've been converting a lot of my shell scripts to Python scripts lately 04:50 eythian well shell scripts should be sh compatible and work fine, or declare /usr/bin/bash 04:52 dcook Hmm, maybe something else is up.. 04:52 dcook Ahhh 04:52 dcook More "bashisms" than I thought 04:53 dcook I think openSUSE uses bash by default.. 04:53 * dcook should really review some of his shell scripts to double-check their syntax... 04:54 eythian wahanui: irc is multiplayer notepad 04:54 wahanui ...but irc is http://irc.koha-community.org/irclog/koha/|a good place to ask question. This week is more quiet that usual because of the Koha Conference... 04:54 eythian wahanui: irc is also multiplayer notepad 04:54 wahanui okay, eythian. 04:54 dcook hehe 04:54 dcook It's funny because it's true... 05:09 dcook eythian: Quick question about Debian packages if you're up for it 05:09 eythian sure 05:09 dcook When you pin a package, it doesn't get updated by doing "apt-get upgrade", right? 05:09 eythian that's mostly right 05:10 dcook What's the part that mostly isn't? 05:10 eythian well, it's generally the case. However you can do things like use pinning to prioritise another repo. 05:11 dcook Mmm, right. I recall seeing something about priority. 05:11 dcook Say you only had one package that wasn't available via another repo 05:11 dcook Can you still manually update it even though it's pinned? 05:11 eythian yeah 05:11 eythian $ cat /etc/apt/preferences.d/koha-common 05:11 eythian Package: koha-common 05:11 eythian Pin: origin "debian.koha-community.org" 05:11 eythian Pin-Priority: -1 05:11 wahanui koha-common is the one you want, the main koha one needs a bit more work (its for setting up a single instance) 05:11 dcook just "apt-get install package"? 05:11 eythian hmm 05:11 eythian not sure. 05:12 eythian maybe 05:12 eythian you can do apt-get install package=1.2.3 05:12 eythian and it'll force that version 05:14 eythian apt-cache policy package is useful for checking what's going on 05:15 dcook Hmm.. 05:18 dcook Hmm, I think maybe what I want is... "Pin: version 3.18*" perhaps 05:18 eythian you might be able to do that, I'm not sure 05:18 dcook https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-apt-get.en.html 05:18 dcook I'm intrigued by these priorities.. 05:18 eythian we just pin it to stop automatic upgrades, so we can do them manually as needed. 05:19 dcook Well, apparently "Pin: version 3.18*" will let the automatic upgrades through for minor version updates 05:19 dcook Ah wait.. maybe not 05:19 dcook Maybe this is a Debian specific thing.. 05:19 dcook Like "0.4.99-1 and 0.4.99-10" 05:19 eythian I don't follow 05:19 dcook Well, let's say you have 3.18.2 05:19 eythian would it not be 3.18.*, too 05:20 dcook In theory 05:20 dcook I'd hope that would work 05:20 dcook And that * isn't replaced with "-blah" 05:20 dcook Which it probably isn't and I'm just overthinking it :p 05:20 eythian oh, I see 05:21 eythian well, we don't yet do -1 type stuff 05:21 eythian one day I'll make it do that 05:21 eythian (we used to, then build rules got stricter) 05:21 dcook Stricter? 05:22 eythian koha is treated as a debian-native package because the debian/ directory is included in the upstream source 05:22 eythian as there's no separation of debian/ and source, you can't (in theory) update one without updating the upstream version 05:22 eythian so, it doesn't permit putting -1 on the end 05:22 dcook Ah right... I recall you mentioning something about this before 05:23 eythian I plan one day to separate out the packaging stuff 05:23 dcook Cool! 05:23 eythian so that koha is treated as upstream and then a separate repo contains the packaging details 05:24 dcook :) 05:24 eythian or maybe just have a script that separates them out. 05:25 dcook I keep telling myself that I'll learn to package RPMs for openSUSE, but... 05:25 eythian heh 05:26 dcook I would if it would be beneficial here... but it would require some work to make it worthwhile at the moment 05:34 * eythian heads off 05:34 eythian later 05:35 dcook later 05:35 dcook thanks for answering my questions, eythian :) 05:39 timmmy hello. where are the XSLT files? 05:40 timmmy I have a brand new default installation. 05:43 dcook And I was just about to answer 06:55 * magnuse waves 07:30 reiveune hello 07:31 kivilahtio rangi: Fight the FUD man! Just show them what we do :) 07:32 kivilahtio eythian: nooooooooooo. I don't want to configure elasticsearch indexes in 4 different places 07:32 kivilahtio eythian: *When modifying Items, I don't want to deal with converting perfectly good items-rows to MARC Item representation and then covnerting them back to items-object so it can be saved to DB. 07:57 alex_a bonjour 08:07 Joubu hello 08:07 wahanui hi, Joubu 08:08 Joubu @later tell khall yes got it, thanks! 08:08 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded. 08:08 Joubu @later tell pianohacker the most important is not the number of patches but their readability :) 08:08 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded. 08:13 kivilahtio Joubu: Do you know of anyone using Koha with RedHat? 08:13 kivilahtio Oulu libraries have some tight bindings with their local IT support provider and they only provide RedHat linux 08:14 Joubu I think we had a partner using RedHat, but it was a nightmare to install Koha on it 08:15 kivilahtio Joubu: I am trying to convince those RedHat peeps to install Ubuntu or Debian 08:15 kivilahtio Joubu: Just looking for ammunition for my arguments 08:15 Joubu If I remember correctly, fridolin did the install 08:15 Joubu fridolin: do you remember? 08:16 kivilahtio yeah fridolin! Can we recommend RedHat as a OS for Koha? 08:16 kivilahtio Isn't RedHat like 50% proprietary? 08:17 kivilahtio could I say you cannot install Koha on RedHat :) 08:17 kivilahtio it doesnät work :) 08:19 drojf kivilahtio: the university of applied sciences in wildau (in germany, close to berlin) has redhat or centos, they provide koha for the local public library. i tried hard to convince them to use debian, but they also have an it department that insisted on doing it that way. it works, but it must be horrible to update ;) 08:19 kivilahtio drojf: The point here is that we are forming a nationwide cooperation of Koha developers. And it might be that some day I have to update their Koha 08:19 drojf lolnope 08:21 kivilahtio drojf:, Joubu: I wonder what is the benefit of using RedHat over Debian/Ubuntu? 08:21 kivilahtio there must be something because they insist on it 08:21 drojf a contract with an outside support company, i think 08:21 kivilahtio they clami that they get vendor support 08:21 drojf yup 08:21 kivilahtio but you can get vendor support for ubuntu as well 08:22 kivilahtio afaik nobody needs that :) 08:22 drojf but they have it for everything else and won't change all that for you 08:22 Joubu kivilahtio: did you have a look at the wiki page? 08:22 Joubu http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_on_Redhat_Enterprise_6 08:22 Joubu But it looks outdated 08:22 kivilahtio Joubu: thanks, I read it and it looks like something I don't want to be a part of 08:23 drojf heh 08:24 kivilahtio thanks guys. BTW do you know anyone Richard Washington from Tonga? 08:26 Joubu No but I know Richard Tonga from Washington 08:26 fridolin hie all 08:26 kivilahtio Joubu: heh, has he got something to do with Koha? 08:26 kivilahtio hi fridolin! 08:27 fridolin kivilahtio: unfortunaly 100% NO 08:27 kivilahtio well that is a good recommendation 08:27 fridolin all dependances of Koha are managed in Debian packages 08:27 Joubu just something to do with my mind 08:28 fridolin we have often a demand for CentOS of Fedora 08:28 kivilahtio fridolin: I installed MAriaDB I had to install dependencies outside of the koha-dependecies -package, but I still sintalled everything from packages 08:28 kivilahtio was quite easy :) 08:28 fridolin kivilahtio: on a RedHat ? 08:29 kivilahtio on Ubuntu 14.04 :) 08:29 rangi centos or fedora is one thing 08:29 rangi that's doable 08:29 kivilahtio rangi: ok 08:29 rangi redhat .. not so much 08:30 rangi its old everything 08:30 kivilahtio rangi: fedora and centos 08:30 kivilahtio rangi: doesnt save my day :) 08:30 kivilahtio rangi: and neither does theirs. Can you tell me any details? 08:31 kivilahtio like packages are aoutdated? or hte RedHat is outdated? 08:31 gaetan_B hello 08:31 kivilahtio it looks like verything must be compiled from hte source, even the Perl modules 08:31 rangi fedora does 6 monthly releases just like ubuntu, its mostly up to date 08:32 rangi a lot of the perl modules are packaged, quite a few still arent 08:32 rangi but mariadb, etc are packaged 08:33 rangi redhat releases are like ubuntu lts .. except even more focused on stability 08:33 kivilahtio fridolin: so you think 100% NO :) that is good :) 08:33 rangi and long release cycle 08:33 kivilahtio rangi: I don't quite follow what does it have to do with running Koha? 08:33 kivilahtio rangi: You mean the new Perl modules we use are becoming available for RedHat in two years? 08:34 rangi or longer 08:34 kivilahtio rangi: With a delay of 2 years 08:34 rangi its not two years its longer for rhel 08:34 rangi centos is rhel without the paid for support, but also because its community driven, people package for it too 08:35 rangi none of them are impossible to install koha on, ive run it on all 3 08:35 kivilahtio ok 08:35 rangi but it's significantly more work 08:35 rangi its just like on any system you have installed from cpan on 08:35 rangi its up to you, to monitor all of those modules 08:35 rangi and upgrade for security 08:36 rangi for 100+ modules, thats a lot of work 08:37 rangi multiply that by a few servers and yeah .. who needs that headache 08:42 kivilahtio rangi: Yeah, we also run Koha separated on ~7 virtual servers 08:42 kivilahtio rangi: So upgrade those :) 08:42 kivilahtio I prefer apt-get upgrade :) 08:44 rangi if they really wanted to run on an rpm based distro, they should package the modules 08:44 rangi and get them into fedora 08:44 fridolin kivilahtio: I would like to make it work, I think it is possible 08:44 rangi just like we have been doing with debian 08:45 fridolin but I think we should work on a standalone perl env for Koha 08:45 rangi https://firstname.lastname@example.org 08:45 rangi https://email@example.com 08:45 rangi etc 08:47 rangi i think getting the modules packaged as rpm would benefit more than just koha users, so is a worthy thing to do, but i dont have time to do that 09:01 magnuse hei brinxmat 09:01 akafred At OPL we're putting Koha in Docker. Inside Docker it's debian, but outside it is ubuntu (but could be redhat or centos or anything that runs Docker). 09:01 magnuse fridolin: what do you mean by "standalone perl env"? 09:02 fridolin magnuse: all dependances in /usr/local/share/perl 09:02 akafred kivilahtio: ^^^^ 09:04 magnuse fridolin: would something like https://metacpan.org/pod/Pinto be relevant? 09:04 fridolin since perl is a source code, it is not linked to the OS 09:05 brinxmat hei magnuse 09:10 fridolin magnuse: I dont know this, maybe good indeed 09:12 fridolin akafred: we are using LXC in local for dev and production, also Ubuntu for host and Debian for guest 09:14 rangi fridolin: that's fine if you want to be in charge of monitoring all the security updates on all the modules in there 09:15 akafred ah cool, Docker is sort of a nicer packaging around e.g lxc 09:15 rangi personally i like the fact that debian-security keep an eye on them 09:15 rangi as would the fedora team if they were packaged as rpm 09:16 fridolin rangi: which solution is fine ? 09:17 rangi standalone perl env 09:18 rangi it's only fine if you want to monitor cpan for all the updates (especially security) personally id much rather get the modules as part of a distribution 09:18 rangi and have many more eyes on them 09:22 brinxmat Question regarding authorized values: Does the interface provide any method of validating input? 09:22 akafred I would say Koha in Docker increases security. The host needs a lot less packages (Koha & dependencies), and the guest (inside Docker) has limited access to the host and doesn't even run ssh etc. 09:23 magnuse brinxmat: nope, you can't say e.g. "this authorized value should only contain integers" 09:23 rangi akafred: sure as long as you are still using the packaged modules, not compiling from source and then forgetting to update them 09:24 fridolin akafred: secure indeed 09:25 brinxmat magnuse: spot on 09:25 rangi personally im happy that debian security exists, and am more than willing to have their help 09:25 akafred But we're mostly using Docker for other benefits - e g we can test a new Koha-in-docker image (with updated packages) before pushing to production - and be more confident everything keeps working. Also we can move dockerized applications between servers, and even run applications with conflicting requirements. 09:27 brinxmat magnuse: I'm assuming there are authorized values that have special status in Koha, i.e. the categories are not just arbitrary names, is this correct? 09:28 rangi and of course i was talking about stand alone perl devs not docker anyway, i dont know anyone who isnt doing virtualisation of some sort, be it container based or heavier like xen or kvm 09:30 magnuse brinxmat: yeah, there are lots of authorized values that have to be present for koha to work properly 09:30 * rangi heads to sleep 09:31 brinxmat magnuse: has there been an effort to provide validation for data entry in these? 09:31 magnuse not that i know of, but i might have missed it 09:32 magnuse it's the sort of thing where i think we tend to assume data will be entered by people who know what they are doing :-) 09:33 brinxmat magnuse: "we tend to assume data will be entered by people who know what they are doing", come on, it's me you're talking to :D 09:35 magnuse :-) 09:36 magnuse i'm sure noone would object to a patch that makes data validation possible :-) 09:54 mveron hi #koha 09:55 mveron Question regarding "Commands provided by the Debian packages": Do they work on Ubuntu as well? - http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Commands_provided_by_the_Debian_packages 10:00 magnuse mveron: yes 10:01 mveron Thanks, magnuse :-) 10:01 bigbrovar Hi guys, I noticed that some patrons in koha (3.16 debian packages) are unable to place items on hold.. while others (in same categories ) are able to. what could be wrong? 10:02 bigbrovar I checked the circulation rules and all seem fine.. like I said but patrons are from same categories 10:19 BobB bigbrovar, are the borrowers in the same category at the same branch, trying to reserve the same items? 10:19 BobB the items are not 'Not for Loan' and the borrowers have not reached their 'holds' limit? 10:19 bigbrovar yes.. it but different branches 10:20 BobB or have oustanding fines beyond their limit? 10:20 bigbrovar it is same items.. same categories .. no fines at all 10:20 bigbrovar I think its because they are from different branches 10:20 BobB then I would compare the issuing rules for the different branches 10:21 BobB there is also a system preference, iirc, that allows holds on other branches 10:21 bigbrovar ok... or could there be a setting preventing a patron from one branch from placing on hold an item from another branch 10:21 BobB i.e. if the borrower and item are in different branches, a hold might not be allowed 10:21 bigbrovar BobB: yeah I think thats it 10:21 bigbrovar I just have to find that settings :) 10:23 BobB check the Global System Preferences at Circulation/Holds Policy 10:23 bigbrovar BobB: Thanks 10:24 BobB also at Administration/Circulation and Fines Rules there are default holds policies on two places on that page, if they have been populated 12:28 tcohen morning 12:42 magnuse hola tcohen 13:19 Joubu @later tell khall patch submited on bug 13726 ;) 13:19 huginn Joubu: The operation succeeded. 13:24 tcohen hi Joubu 14:21 Shane-S quick question...on an item the damage status says 14:21 Shane-S choose...but nothing is listed, where do I populate that field at in the admin side? 14:46 Shane-S is it quite or am I connected to nothing? 14:46 Shane-S p.s. found it, under admin > basic > authorized values 15:17 tcohen back 15:18 * tcohen is tempted to remove the "CREATE USER.." part for the --use-db switch of koha-create, it makes no sense. At all 15:42 fridolin see u 15:43 barton good morning, #koha 15:48 barton I have a library who is trying to do a keyword search for 'A spool of blue thread', which fails, but 'spool of blue thread' succeeds. 15:48 tcohen morning barton 15:48 barton If I specify title: search.pl?idx=ti&q=A+Spool+of+Blue+Thread&op=and&idx=kw ... I get results as well. 15:49 barton morning tcohen! 15:49 barton this happens in both OPAC and staff client. 15:50 barton Other searches using articles, such as 'The Help' are successful. 15:52 tcohen What do u have in etc/zebradb/lang_defs/en/sort-string-utf.chr for A? 15:52 tcohen map (^A\s) @ ? 15:53 barton tcohen: I'll take a look. 15:55 barton map (^a\s) @ 15:55 barton map (^A\s) @ 15:57 * tcohen is reading the zebra docs for map files 16:01 reiveune bye 16:01 barton zebra docs: where angels fear to tread. 16:02 tcohen heh, not that bad 16:02 tcohen barton: please put a @later for dcook with the situation 16:10 barton tcohen: will do. 16:13 barton @later tell dcook strengeness with keyword search: 'A spool of blue thread', which fails, but 'spool of blue thread' succeeds... but when I specify title -- search.pl?idx=ti&q=A+Spool+of+Blue+Thread I get results. tcohen looked at etc/zebradb/lang_defs/en/sort-string-utf.chr and asked me to @later you on it. 16:13 huginn barton: The operation succeeded. 16:38 barton tcohen: never mind ... the library in question is still on 3.12 with a lot of custom code. I can't replicate the issue anywhere else. 16:39 barton @later tell dcook never mind ... the library in question is still on 3.12 with a lot of custom code. I can't replicate the issue anywhere else. 16:39 huginn barton: The operation succeeded. 16:41 barton I fear for Hugin, that he come not back, yet more anxious am I for Munin. 16:41 mveron @wunder Allschwil 16:41 huginn mveron: The current temperature in Wetter Allschwil, Allschwil, Switzerland is 1.7°C (5:41 PM CET on February 18, 2015). Conditions: Overcast. Humidity: 72%. Dew Point: -3.0°C. Windchill: 2.0°C. Pressure: 30.60 in 1036 hPa (Steady). 18:03 bag morning 18:12 drojf kivilahtio: can you elaborate a little on what the plans are for the koha party in may? 18:30 magnuse bag: HI 18:30 wahanui hey, magnuse 18:31 magnuse barton: channeling Odin? 18:32 barton magnuse: chenneling wikipedia ;-) 18:32 barton not sure who would win in a fight. 18:33 magnuse hehe 18:34 * cait waves 19:15 * mveron waves 19:17 * mveron would like to see Bug 11400 "Out of discussion" :-) 19:17 huginn 04Bug http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=11400 trivial, P5 - low, ---, tomascohen, In Discussion , Show "Login as a different user" instead of "Logout" if not enough premissions 19:20 rangi whats holding it up? 19:20 * rangi has to leave soon to take kids to school but will read back 19:27 drojf hi mveron. now that you added a patch you should switch it to needs signoff 19:27 drojf if somebody wants to have more discussion they will probably let you know ;) 19:29 mveron drojf:Ok, will do... 19:57 * cait waves 20:19 rangi back 20:48 * magnuse waves 20:49 rangi hi magnuse 21:01 magnuse hiya rangi 21:02 magnuse rangi++ for shooting down some ebsco-related fud on linkedin 21:03 cait very successfully too :) 21:04 rangi years of practice 21:04 magnuse :-) 21:04 cait :) 21:07 eythian hi 21:07 wahanui salut, eythian 21:08 cait morning eythian 21:09 magnuse kia ora eythian 21:12 eythian kivilahtio: you're going to have to have more patience. 21:12 * mveron says good night / daytime / worldtime to everybody 21:13 rangi cya mveron 21:13 mveron :-) 21:21 eythian aww, I've got to go back to doing terrible SAML work today. I was so close to having basic authority searching working properly 21:21 eythian in es 21:22 wizzyrea sadface 21:23 * magnuse too 21:24 eythian (I did discover that the way authority search is handled is naturally totally different to the way normal search is handled. That is very annoying to me. 21:24 eythian ) 21:26 magnuse special cases for all the things! 21:27 magnuse eythian: is handled = is handled in koha-with-zebra? 21:28 eythian yeah 21:28 eythian I suppose it does have different requirements 21:29 eythian e.g. counting the number of records that match (still unsure how I'm going to implement that.) 21:29 * magnuse should get around to reading that bok about es 21:31 eythian ES is one of those tricky projects that is 80% documented. It always seems to explain everything except that one thing that your case really needs. 21:36 magnuse sounds like fun 21:38 drojf eythian: there is this "filemaker -- the missing manual" book. horrible people telling you all the time how great filemaker is and how great you are for using filemaker and once in a while explaining things. maybe you would like to do "the missing 20% of ES docuentation" while you're working on the rest ;) 22:06 timmmy Hi. Can someone help me find the XSLT files? 22:09 wizzyrea how did you install Koha? 22:10 timmmy according to http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Debian 22:11 wizzyrea /usr/share/koha/opac/htdocs/opac-tmpl/bootstrap/en/xslt/MARC21slim2OPACDetail.xsl for example 22:11 eythian run: dpkg -L koha-common | grep xslt 22:11 wizzyrea or that 22:13 timmmy great! thanks! 23:58 * Francesca waves 23:59 Francesca hello!